Medina Hammad Interviewed by Emily Musgrave
Medina Hammad lives and works in Lincoln. She studied at
Chelsea School of Art, Newport Art College and De Montfort University. Exhibitions include: Art Collection Showcase, Project Space Plus – University of Lincoln, 2015; (detail) H Project Space – Bangkok. Transition Gallery London and Usher Gallery Lincoln, 2014; Pebbles and Avalanches, The Crossley Gallery - Dean Clough, 2010; Medina Hammad – Recent Drawings Tyler School of Art Philadelphia, 2004; Medina Hammad – New and Recent Work, 4 Victoria Street, Bristol (Solo exhibition) 2002; ‘Sudanese Stories’ (Solo exhibition) Usher Gallery Lincoln, Bradford University Peterborough Art Gallery, 1999/2000. I make paintings and drawings. Essentially, I am concerned with the use of self in Fine Art practice. A Sudanese/British background has made a multi-cultural context, central to this output. To date, practice has, largely involved production of autobiographical, narrative, work, with references to family life and other personal events. More recently, though I have been drawing upon the notion of the constructed exotic, making specific reference to material from the Arabian Nights. This has resulted in a variety of pieces. Some link directly, with the tales themselves but others employ use of the symbolic value of exotic creatures. These intentions have evolved through interaction with Post-Colonial/Post Modern discourse. The self/other can now be interpreted differently – contemporary practice now opens up possibilities of new processes, using hybridity and non linear narrative.
EM: Can you describe the object? MH: It's a compact mirror or pair of mirrors and its about three and a half, four inches square. And it's made out of dark green plastic with a little gold plastic disk in the centre of each square and you open it out and there's a square mirror that shows your face as it is and then there's a little circular mirror opposite that magnifies the face slightly. EM: And how long have you had them? MH: I've had it since... let me just kind of get this kind of approximately right... Summer 2011 EM: Where did you get them from? MH: I got them from my late mum's house as I was clearing it out. EM: Did they belong to her? MH: It did. EM: Do you know where she got them from? MH: No, I don’t. I would imagine knowing my mum from a, cheap and cheerful shop when she was probably out with her cousin getting her groceries and stuff. EM: Would she have used it?
MH: Yes. She used it a lot. My mum was disabled she’d had polio when she was very young and as she got older her body was unable to compensate. So it was quite important to her in her little bungalow that certain things were very near to hand and near her armchair in her lounge she had a set of plastic drawers and then a little table next to that. And she had all sorts of things that she'd needed to hand and she'd make herself a cup of tea in the mornings and sit there and then she'd fix her hair you know, if she wanted to put a bit of lipstick on or whatever or hand cream she'd comb her hair out, check her face. And that's where this compact mirror, pair of mirrors, lived. And I couldn't swear to it, but I'm pretty certain she used it daily and I'm convinced when I was there, when I'd stay over and be there in the morning, sitting opposite and having a coffee. EM: So it's something you strongly associate with your mother? MH: Yes, yes it is. EM: Do you have a specific memory of her using it or was it just something...? MH: No, no. I don’t know, one morning I wake up and there’s an eyelash in there that’s getting on my nerves which I assume happens for us at some point during the week. There’s something very reassuring and lovely about opening that drawer and seeing that thing that’s worn and used. I mean I have one or two lovely things from my mum little tiny bits of jewellery, nothing extraordinary but a little diamond ring and my
grandmother’s engagement ring, and eternity ring. Now they’re shut away in boxes. I don’t wear that kind of jewellery. Very occasionally I might get them out and reminisce about them. What’s nice about this mirror is that it’s worn and it’s used and it’s hers. And its intimate and it’s nice, it’s like having her there. That’s what I like about it. There’s nothing special about it in terms of monetary worth, it’s not an incredibly fashionable object, it’s not vintage or interesting in that sort of way. It’s just her. It’s her mirror that she used and when I need to I use it. EM: So it provokes good emotions? MH: Oh absolutely, yeah. And also things about aging. I think when you’re young you probably look at yourself in the mirror a lot and when you’re older you don’t, well not everybody, but certainly I am less interested in how I look. It’s more to do with a practical use, fishing out an eyelash or a blemish or something on my skin that feels uncomfortable. Yeah, it’s got very kind of practical use. I suppose I think about my maturity and her maturity and in some ways it makes you think about quite profound things. Getting older. How long you might live. Will I die the same age as her? (laughs) But I don’t want that to sound maudlin or miserable. (laughs) They’re good things, they’re useful things. EM: Have you thought how your mother or your mother’s objects including this mirror having an overlap between your personal life and your art practice? MH: Not yet. Since my mother died I’ve had a very, very busy
time at work and so my practice has had limited engagement. But, I am always making plans and I’m always writing things down and I’m always thinking of what I’d like to make and what I’d like to do. I haven’t made any work yet. I am an autobiographical artist and I’ve certainly made work about my late father’s objects, you know, I lost him over 25 years ago now. And so I, I would like to make some stuff about my mother and I would like to make some stuff about middle age, you know that sort of coming of age later on. I had an idea a body of work called Interior Work and some of that would involve my mother, her objects, my memories of her. I ended up with a lot of her cups. She had a cat and we were very grateful that an old friend of hers, a mature lady just sent a man in a car to pick this little cat up and so I put all these things into a bag without thinking about them and when we were finally clearing out the house we realised there was lots of cups without saucers. I've got some cups with saucers, but its rather wonderful all these cups with no saucers and I'd quite like to do something maybe called mum's cups in a very simplistic way perhaps, certainly as a study. But I have more substantial works in mind but I think I need to feel my way through and work it out. EM: Do you ever feel this mirror could represent you in the same way it represents your mother? MH: It could really because it is a shared object. It’s a shared object that two middle aged women used. (laughs) I think mirrors are very emotive and powerful things but a shared mirror that’s rather... it’s rather interesting especially when you’re thinking about mortality and the processing of things
like grief, so it means a lot to me actually. I thought a lot about what you were asking for your project and stealthily avoided the obvious, the things you pop on a shelf even if they’re a bit shabby. We’ve kind of had this conversation in a tutorial about your little chipped, object. You know I have things like that too, but I thought ‘No let’s really think about this. What have I got that’s set of values are slightly different to that’ and you’re right it’s the things that we overlook sometimes, it is those, well I don’t know, not even tiny they could be large I mean it could be a cupboard I suppose. It could be a soap dish. It you know, it could be a comb it could be an old roller but it’s not and what I do like about it is this practical thing. This shared purpose. (laughs) EM: Does it represent your identity at all? MH: My identity as a daughter, yeah. A daughter and a woman growing older and facing up to growing older. Because I think of terms of my identity it’s something that we don’t talk about. Nobody talks about menopause. Everybody talks about those other hormonal rites of passage. Puberty, adolescence, menstruation, young women starting to engage in sexual activity. I don’t know, marriage, birth. My mother and I very rarely, we hardly ever talked about menopause I think as I knew mine was looming I sort of asked her a little bit about that, she said ‘oh yes, about the same age as me’ so yeah, there are some things in there about female identity I think and as a daughter and as a mum. Certainly those things. EM: Do your um, the people closest to you, know about this mirror?
MH: Do you know? Actually I don’t think they do. My sibling might, probably vaguely remember me you know, ‘cause you go through the process of emptying. ‘Do you want this? Do you feel strongly about that? Let’s take things we gave them back perhaps that’s a good way to start.’ So it might be lost amongst a selection of a load of other objects, I’d say this is actually incredibly personal. I don’t even think my partner realises. EM: Why do you think that is? Why do you think that you haven’t externalised that? MH: I’ve never felt the need to. Again it’s, I think it’s because it’s an object that’s very... its purpose is quite mundane and straightforward. You know, he knows about the jewellery, because that’s photographed in case it ever gets, we ever get burgled and it gets stolen. And he dealt with that for me, he knows about one or two things I have on shelves, he knows there’s some things, one or two things in some boxes under the bed that I can’t quite get rid of but I probably will eventually because I have nobody to give them to. So I have to make some decisions. You know, and I think some years after somebody’s died, you can do that. Initially you do try to keep as much as possible - I did with my dad. And then you realise that actually over the years you just get rid of it, you get rid of the things that you don’t need that you don’t use, you don’t particularly enjoy looking at. You don’t need to look at anymore or think about, you can be much more selective, probably the next thing is chucking some photographs away. I’m choosing the ones I really like and probably the others will live in a shoe box for a while and then eventually I’ll get rid of
them. Because they are of no use to anybody else. Yeah so this little mirror is very kind of ordinary, straightforward thing. So in some ways, well I suppose in terms of your interview, there is something to talk about because that’s what is at the heart of your project, these things are of huge significance but we kind of overlook it, it’s probably a very comfortable relationship that we have with them. It’s probably only of any interest to you and I (laughs). EM: How would you feel if one day if you opened your bedside drawer and it was gone? MH: Oh I’d be worried. You know, I’d try to seek it out. I’d miss it. Well it would be a bit like, I have a lot of books and I tend to kind of you know, get them out, obviously being an artist a lot of them are books full of pictures. And I’ll suddenly have the urge to see a picture and then I’d put it back on the shelf and I might not look at it for another two or three years. And I have a terrible panic that sets in if I suddenly ‘go to the shelf and I can’t find it. And it won’t go away until I’ve tracked down the book. You know I tidy out these bookcases at least once a year, sometimes every couple of years and I have an Oxfam box and when I remove something it’s very deliberate and considered. And I would feel the same way about this little mirror, I’d think ‘Shit, where have I left it?’ Or ‘Where’s it gone. If I haven’t moved it, who has?’ So I would miss it. I would miss it, its part of her and it’s an object that makes me think of her in a very nice way. EM: What do you think will happen to the mirror when you pass away?
MH: I don’t know and it doesn’t matter. The earthly relationship was between her and I. If I had a daughter, if I had a niece, I might say do you want this? But they might not want it. It might just be of no real significance. And actually, yeah. It doesn’t matter. I think that’s another nice thing about getting older, you get more comfortable about sort of prioritising about things and letting go of things, objects, people, places. And I’m not having a huge problem with that. I think you have a greater power to make yourself be more pragmatic and sensible. EM: If there was a fire in your house, what would be the thing that you grab? Apart from living things. MH: I’d have my little cat in one arm and I like to think my partner would be alright and running out the house at the same time. I would take some objects that I have on my desk in my bedroom. I have a photograph of my mother and photograph of my father. They divorced very later on in life after 31 years, so they’re separate photographs on purpose because they kind of were. But under those photographs I have some little objects. One is sort of a precious object, it was my father’s ring. And next to that is a farthing, a safety pin and a reel of green cotton. And I would take those things. EM: But not the mirror? MH: No. No, those things have some different associations. And some of them are sort of mundane objects but some of them aren’t. So yeah, I’d be grabbing those.
EM: Do you know of anyone else’s object in this context? In terms of people close to you, are you aware of any objects that they have attachments to? MH: Let me have a think. My partner’s got a beautiful object. Both his parents are dead and not surprisingly he’s got his mother’s wedding ring. But one of the things he’s got that’s actually very beautiful, his father when he was young used to be a jockey. And he’s got a prize that his father won which is a horse shoe with obviously ribbons and things plaited round and it’s so old and faded. You can kind of barely see what it is. And it sits, actually in an old shell of my father’s. We didn’t think about that actually, it’s not a question of bringing two fathers together. But we have a thing that we call the nature table in our lounge that’s got all sorts of fossils and seed heads and all kinds of things on it. There is a load of shells, they’re not things that I would buy because they’re probably kind of a bit dodgy. Poor little sea creatures being pulled out to be sold to tourists, but none the less they’re beautiful things and I got them second hand from him. And so, this lovely shell, used to be on the nature table and Chris just put this little equine prize in it. I don’t know if he looks at it much, but I think he’s sort of pleased to know it’s there. I suppose if I think of other people, a lot of women I know wear late female relative’s jewellery. And I have a neighbour who did a really lovely thing and she took some of her mum’s old jewellery which was not to her taste and she took it to a contemporary jeweller who made it into something for her. He sort of recycled the metal and the gems and made it into something else and I thought that was rather nice. And she has children and they have female relationships and wives, so that stuff will get passed
on but I think that’s rather lovely, the idea of recycling something. Something like that. But yeah, I mean I guess most people have objects, I can’t think of any extraordinary, bizarre relationships with objects actually. I suppose in some ways its quite nice if people die, the folk that are left choose things or inherit things to have around them that they like, that remind them of those people I mean I never wear my mother’s jewellery but it’s highly unlikely that I’d sell it either. It’s not much, I mean a handful of little, little things. I like this idea of recycling. I don’t know, maybe I should one day go to somebody and say ‘Hm, can you make that into some earrings for me? And I don’t mind if they’re odd’ (laughs) EM: Do you like having something of hers that is functional as opposed to ornamental? MH: Yeah I do actually. I do, you know, it’s a bit ‘life goes on’. You know, I like that. I’ve got some chipped Pyrex dishes as well, I use those and I’ve got her egg slicer in my (laughs) drawer another little wooden spoon that I use when I’m tempering spices to grind up up and make a curry. I like that. There’s an old whisk of hers that’s hanging up in the kitchen. It’s a bit crap actually, I’ve got better whisks so I tend to just look at it. Yes, I quite like having some practical things around. I’ve got, again, a menopausal thing. I tend to just wear cotton robes at home, they’re just much more comfortable and I can, at 53 I can, it doesn’t matter if I choose to not get dressed at home that’s up to me. There were three that I sort of inherited from her. Whenever I used to see her I didn’t have to used to take anything with me except a pair of knickers because she’d have things that I could wear and after I had a
bath and get comfortable and get a take away and watch something on television together. The final one has fallen apart and I’m having to sort of go onto the internet to look at various, thick, kaftan-y thing and try and replace. One I remade myself with different fabric. I can’t get rid of them and I just fold them up, they’re in the cupboard. They could have been part of this actually, they’re objects I could have brought in for this, but I think with the mirror it was the reflection thing that the shared thing seemed much more interesting. EM: What sort of experience was it selecting these objects to keep? MH: It’s very rollercoaster. Because once you realise you have to make these decisions there are some things you have strong feelings about. I still had my emotional moments. Some things are very easy to throw away and as you gather momentum with it cause you’ve got to get a house empty, you’ve got to sell it, you’ve got things to do, especially as an executor - as my mother’s executor and my father’s. You’ve got to be practical and you’ve got to push on. But, I mean I think I learnt, I learnt through the experience of emptying my father’s house what I probably needed to do when it came to emptying my mother’s house which was much smaller and less complex in many ways. But it’s very up and down. Some decisions you can make very readily, quickly, easily, something you can just take to charity shops and not think twice about it. And with the photographs of hers, I know that’s difficult, but if they’re nothing to you, if you don’t recognise these people - you don’t even know their names then there is no point. And actually, it doesn’t matter! It doesn’t matter. I’m not a religious person, I
don’t know what happens next but I don’t think it involves any of this (knocks on table). EM: Was there anything that during that experience, was there any elements of it being therapeutic or any closure involved? MH: Yes I mean, I think I felt I did everything that I could and then in the end it was just me, the property, the bits and pieces that was left. I hired a really nice small family firm who specialise in this sort of thing and they just came to do the final clear-out. And he was lovely, he was a very sensitive man and he said to me ‘I don’t think you should be here whilst we do this’ you know all the little, if you like, precious things had gone, everything had been dealt with. There was just the bed and the fire and all of that. Just that stuff that had to go, nothing of any real significance but they had nonetheless been part of her home. So I went to the little square round the corner from her bungalow had a coffee and they phoned me on my mobile when they were done. And that point was very emotional. They drove off with all the stuff, I gave them the cheque. There was just empty rooms with cobwebs, faded bits of carpet, damp patches on the walls, patches where pictures and things had been. That was upsetting. You know, but I suppose I felt ‘well, I’ve done my my best you made me your executor and I’ve done my best with all of your worldly goods. My sibling has what they want, have what they wanted. I have what I wanted. Lots of charity shops have stuff which they recycle and kind of do good with. Other relatives who are close to you have what they wanted. I’m putting it all to bed for you.’ I took lots of photographs of the space that was
empty. I did this with my father’s house as well, and that became work eventually. I don’t know if these will become paintings and drawings but nonetheless it seemed very important to photograph the house when it was full and as it was empty. So yes, I think it did, I felt I’d done my duty and it was a duty she bestowed on me. And I walked away crying but kind of happy. EM: Do you think your mother would have been surprised at the object you chose to keep? MH: Probably yeah, probably some things. I think she would have been probably. But also in other cases, not. She’d have chuckled about the chipped Pyrex casserole dish. But sort of thought ‘oh well’ (laughs) you know she got things from charity shops. She loved second hand books and so she would have had no problem recycling. One of the nicest things actually was I took a load of books to her local library in Bingham, and as I was coming back and forth to the house over the course of the year, one of the nicest things was seeing her books in the library. Some of them were fairly brand new and factual and it was just lovely to see them on the stands which is what they do with new books. And I thought ‘That’s brilliant, you’d love that mum.’ Getting more people to read, she loved libraries. When we were little she didn’t have much money and so we were always taken to the public library to get books out. And everywhere I’ve lived I’ve joined a public library. I’m quite shocked when people don’t, actually. So, yeah she would have been surprised about some things but happy about other stuff I think that we let go of, that I let go of.
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