Invicta swiss movement, any questions by Watch Geeks

SeaVulture

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Swiss Movement, Any Questions?

I've seen several threads posted here, in the last day or two, with the obvious design of posing some kind of dark plot to fool the consumer as to the veracity of the terms "Swiss Made" or "Swiss" as applied to the products of certain manufacturers. As I am not one of those who see dark visions in every corner, I chose to do a little searching. Here is a letter that was a reply from a member of the Swiss Federation: Swiss Made and Swiss Movements reply from Swiss Federation In another thread we were discussing where SWISS or SWISS MADE could be located as well as SWISS MOVEMENT versus SWISS MOVT. Since that thread was locked, I'm following up by posting the answer I received from the Swiss Federation in the spirit of learning and sharing information about our passion of watch collecting. I received the following reply from the federation verbatim: (the good stuff is at the bottom) We acknowledge receipt of your email of the 23rd January 2009 and thank you for it. As you may know, the Federation of the Swiss watch industry (FH),is the Swiss watch industry's leading trade association. We are a private, professional, and nonprofit association, currently bringing together more than 500 members representing around 90% of all Swiss watch manufacturers (finished products, watch movements, components,...). We have, among others, as our mission to contribute to the development of the Swiss watch industry. An important part of this task is ensured trough the protection of Swiss names when used in connection with watches and other horological products. In order to protect Swiss names, the Swiss Government has enacted the Ordinance governing the use of the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" for watches (please see under http://www.fhs.ch/doc/osme.pdf) which gives the criteria must be met for a watch to be considered as Swiss and to be allowed to bear Swiss indications. The FH's membership is not determining.

According to Article 3 of this Ordinance, the name "Switzerland", indications such as "Swiss", "Swiss product", "manufactured in Switzerland", "Swiss quality" or other appellations which contain the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" or which may be confused therewith may be used solely for Swiss watches or Swiss watch movements. Article 1a of the Ordinance states that a watch may be considered as Swiss if, and only if it fulfils the following minimum criteria: 1. its movement is Swiss, 2. its movement is cased up in Switzerland, and 3. the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland. Furthermore, Article 2 of the Ordinance defines the Swiss watch movement as the movement which: 1. has been assembled in Switzerland, 2. has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland, and 3. the components of Swiss manufacture make up for at least 50 percent of the value, without considering the cost for assembly. And, according to article 3 of this law, in case the watch only contains a Swiss movement but does not comply with the other requirements, the dial may only bear the indication "Swiss movement". In other words, a watch bearing the name "Swiss" or "Swiss made" on its dial should not only contain a Swiss movement, but this movement should be cased up in Switzerland and the Swiss manufacturer should have performed the final inspection of the watch. The indication of the origin of the watch as such is normally placed on the dial (outer face, at 6 o'clock) but it can placed anywhere on the dial. Besides, the indication "Swiss movement" may be applied to watches that contain a Swiss movement. The word movement must appear written out in full in the same typeface, dimension and colour as the denomination "Swiss". The indication "Swiss movt" is illicit. Hoping that this information will prove to be useful, and staying at your service, we remain, Yours sincerely,

Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH Gemma Spacio Legal Department So since I mispoke about why Invicta may have placed Swiss Made on another part of the watch other than at the 6 o'clock position I am sorry I mispoke and offer my apologies. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who seek to find some deep dark plot, please find it in yourselves to be more gracious. It's impolite to be so sophomoric in a forum of those who seek to learn rather than disgrace. If your mission here is to be enlightened, then by all means, please see this as a form of enlightenment. __________________

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SeaVulture View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #2 Today, 06:11 AM

SeaVulture Senior Member Super Geek

Nobody wants the facts? __________________

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

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X-James

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 38

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It is enlightenment for those who believe what they are told without questioning the validity of what they have been told. Your post is informative but has no bearing on the entire Invicta issue. Invicta is not a member of that federation for reasons that Eyal will not discuss or tell us about. Not being members means they do not have to follow any rules at all set forth by them even though he has told people he does follow them. Eyal has already confessed that the terminology he follows is a gray area but its a gray area they use to help sell there products just like every other manufacture does and the term "Swiss" makes people believe its of better quality which helps them sell there products. Hope this is enlightenment and informative for you but in all reality there are those of you and us that are on both sides of the fence on this topic and we just aint gonna jump to the other side. X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James Add X-James to Your Contacts #4 Today, 06:13 AM

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MREXE Senior Member Super Geek

Invicta is NOT a member of the swiss federation. MREXE View Public Profile Send a private message to MREXE Find all posts by MREXE Add MREXE to Your Contacts #5 Today, 06:18 AM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,421 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

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reliefcp

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,596 Real Name: C.J.

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Is his thread for the Invicta home crowd? This has been posted numerous times on this forum.There arent any dark visions in the corner only the truth. __________________

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SeaVulture Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

Just wanted to make sure the folks who post are really up on the information. Otherwise, it's NOT the truth. __________________

wave3214 Senior Member True WatchGeek

This is getting very old very quick. Either you like a watch or you dont. Either you can afford it or you can use VPs (lol). Lets move onto something else now __________________

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RLFierro

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Quote:

FCCS(SW) USN(ret) 1982-2005 RLFierro View Public Profile Send a private message to RLFierro Send email to RLFierro Find all posts by RLFierro Add RLFierro to Your Contacts #10 Today, 07:11 AM

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strutn45 Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214 This is getting very old very quick. Either you like a watch or you dont. Either you can afford it or you can use VPs (lol). Lets move onto something else now Quote:

Originally Posted by RLFierro Steve, I second, third and fourth your suggestion!!!!!! I'm with ya...both! __________________

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bugduck Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLFierro

Steve, I second, third and fourth your suggestion!!!!!!

Double Ditto ! I'm with you Rich ! bugduck View Public Profile Send a private message to bugduck Send email to bugduck Find all posts by bugduck Add bugduck to Your Contacts #12 Today, 07:25 AM

SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

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So, nobody wants to know where Swiss comes from?

Funny, neither do I!! __________________

Today, 07:26 AM Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 38

X-James Member Member Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214 This is getting very old very quick. Either you like a watch or you dont. Either you can afford it or you can use VPs (lol). Lets move onto something else now Sounds like a great idea ... what should we move onto now? You lead and we'll follow. X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James Add X-James to Your Contacts #14 Today, 07:26 AM

SeaVulture

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How about the price of red beans? I have a feeling they're going up. __________________

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erictrumpet

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Great idea! Start a new thread for the exact same discussion already in progress. __________________

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X-James

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture How about the price of red beans? I have a feeling they're going up. Well I heard that rice was on going to go up also and if that is true along with the price of red beans increasing that is just going to kill Mondays in the Crescent City. X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James

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SeaVulture

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Bacon's still low right now, so stock up!! __________________

gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek

1. who knows 2. who cares

3. why bother Have a nice day! __________________ Bullwinkle: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" gman66 View Public Profile Send a private message to gman66 Find all posts by gman66 Add gman66 to Your Contacts #19 Today, 09:38 AM Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Nu Joisey Posts: 711 Real Name: Ken

kingswords Senior Member Veteran Geek

Inquiring minds want to know....

What I want to know is Swiss cheese made in Switzerland and what do you have to do to label it Swiss?

Next I would like to know, "Who cut the cheese?" __________________

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#20 Today, 10:03 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,002 Real Name: Charlie

CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture

In another thread we were discussing where SWISS or SWISS MADE could be located as well as SWISS MOVEMENT versus SWISS MOVT. Since that thread was locked, I'm following up by posting the answer I received from the Swiss Federation in the spirit of learning and sharing information about our passion of watch collecting. I received the following reply from the federation verbatim: (the good stuff is at the bottom) We acknowledge receipt of your email of the 23rd January 2009 and thank you for it. As you may know, the Federation of the Swiss watch industry (FH),is the Swiss watch industry's leading trade association. We are a private, professional, and nonprofit association, currently bringing together more than 500 members representing around 90% of all Swiss watch manufacturers (finished products, watch movements, components,...). We have, among others, as our mission to contribute to the development of the

Swiss watch industry. An important part of this task is ensured trough the protection of Swiss names when used in connection with watches and other horological products. In order to protect Swiss names, the Swiss Government has enacted the Ordinance governing the use of the name "Swiss" or "Switzerland" for watches (please see under http://www.fhs.ch/doc/osme.pdf) which gives the criteria must be met for a watch to be considered as Swiss and to be allowed to bear Swiss indications. The FH's membership is not determining.

Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH Gemma Spacio Legal Department

So since I mispoke about why Invicta may have placed Swiss Made on another part of the watch other than at the 6 o'clock position I am sorry I mispoke and offer my apologies. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by SeaVulture Nobody wants the facts? The fact is that you have completely and totally missed the point of those previous threads. But you're so intent on lobbing out insults to your fellow geeks, it's not at all surprising...disappointing, but not surprising. __________________

The Celebration's Coming.............. It's Back To Back Time Again Baby!!! CharlieB View Public Profile Send a private message to CharlieB Find all posts by CharlieB Add CharlieB to Your Contacts #21 Today, 10:18 AM

jimmyv Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieB The fact is that you have completely and totally missed the point of those previous threads. But you're so intent on lobbing out insults to your fellow geeks, it's not at all surprising...disappointing, but not surprising. Feel kind of the same way as Charlie here. I've seen you post in the other threads asking do we really need more threads on this subject and then you go and make your own with the "facts". Sorry but just seems self serving and really condescending to me. I totally understand brand loyalty but don't let that loyalty totally blind you when a company does something wrong. You can choose to do what you want with any info provided but just don't try and talk down to people who feel differently because everyone feels their own way and just because you think you're right doesn't mean you are. jimmyv View Public Profile Send a private message to jimmyv Find all posts by jimmyv Add jimmyv to Your Contacts #22 Today, 10:33 AM

huitball

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyv Feel kind of the same way as Charlie here. I've seen you post in the other threads asking do we really need more threads on this subject and then you go and make your own with the "facts". Sorry but just seems self serving and really condescending to me. I totally understand brand loyalty but don't let that loyalty totally blind you when a company does something wrong. You can choose to do what you want with any info provided but just don't try and talk down to people who feel differently because everyone feels their own way and just because you think you're right doesn't mean you are. I 2nd this, or is that 3rd it. Let's just face it, the IDF (Invicta Defense Force) is very strong on this forum and that will never change. I've been trying to stay low with my distaste for Invicta but the blind loyalty,[edit] and the negativity toward those who post their bad experiences with Invicta[edit], is getting crazy. huitball View Public Profile Send a private message to huitball Find all posts by huitball Add huitball to Your Contacts #23 Today, 10:57 AM

samuelrz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bugduck Double Ditto ! I'm with you Rich ! I'm with all of you. __________________

SAM -

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SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

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They spelled out what Swiss means, and still some of you balk. They even said it doesn't matter where it appears on the dial, but still you have a problem with a specific brand. The truth is that EVERY vendor has some problems with the truth. They're selling a product. But many of you have been selective with your distaste. It's that obvious distaste that makes you such targets for those of us who are tired of

hearing your complaints. One of you blamed Mike Davis for the "Tin-Foil Hat" remark. The truth is, I've not only thought it, I've written it. Details and information are running rampant in this forum, but many new folks are not given the opportunity for truth due to rampant untruth and speculation. If someone comes onboard, how many of you have the solution to their problem? Which of you recommends they contact someone who can help? Or, do you just give your two cents? You can blame me for bringing up this subject, but it's each and every one who does not recommend a solution who is to blame for the shape this forum is in. Those who come here, only to vent, are in need of direction. They need to know who to contact with their problem. They don't need to know how anyone else is having a problem worse than theirs. And, they don't need to read how Invicta or any other brand is garbage. For three months I've watched as so many have blamed the longtimers here for being insensitive, but never thought the insensitivity may be coming from the other end of the argument. Do all of us just walk into a room and start bashing something and talking about something no one else knows a thing about? It seems that is what is happening here. If you want that kind of forum, there are probably plenty of them out there you can go to. That's not what this one was created for. So, when you start throwing the blame for your crappy experience, try to think about what you look like, when you walk into the room. __________________

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture

View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #25 Today, 11:12 AM Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Seattle, WA (and on the road weekly) Posts: 611 Real Name: Steve

steverob Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback

The facts you have listed here, which in whole or part have been listed countless times before, are only applicable to members of the Federation of the Swiss watch industry. Outside of having to comply with the federation standards for "Swiss Made" due to their USPTO Registered Trademark, U.S. based companies who are not members are not bound by any other federation standard. They do however need to comply with U.S. Customs country of origin labeling regulations. Guys (not just you, Flyback): Did I miss something? The email from the FH pretty clearly states that it is NOT the Swiss Federation that promulgated these rules but rather the Swiss government. Therefore, if that is true, a company need not be a member of the Swiss Federation to be bound by them. To me, the most fascinating piece of the FH's email was "'Swiss Movt' is illicit." The next most fascinating piece was that the use of "Swiss" seems to carry the same requirements as the use of "Swiss Made," at least according to the Swiss government. All of this seems to put us back into the same grey zone we were in prior to the other very lengthy thread on this topic. Aaaaaarrgggghhhh! Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,421 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverob Guys (not just you, Flyback): Did I miss something? The email from the FH pretty clearly states that it is NOT the Swiss Federation that promulgated these rules but rather

the Swiss government. Therefore, if that is true, a company need not be a member of the Swiss Federation to be bound by them. To me, the most fascinating piece of the FH's email was "'Swiss Movt' is illicit." The next most fascinating piece was that the use of "Swiss" seems to carry the same requirements as the use of "Swiss Made," at least according to the Swiss government. All of this seems to put us back into the same grey zone we were in prior to the other very lengthy thread on this topic. Aaaaaarrgggghhhh! Swiss laws are valid and enforceable within the boarders of Switzerland, not elsewhere. My statement accurately contains the facts of the matter. __________________

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DIAMANTE

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,797

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture They spelled out what Swiss means, and still some of you balk.. They said it was a watch that met Swiss Federation guidelines with a Swiss Made movement. It has been proven they lied - it is an Asian watch, more than likely no part of it ever saw Switzerland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture The truth is that EVERY vendor has some problems with the truth.. Broad sweeping indictment with nothing to back it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture One of you blamed Mike Davis for the "Tin-Foil Hat" remark.. I didn't blame Mike Davis for the Tin foil hat remark - I pointed out that he made the remark regarding folks who dared to question Invicta's Swiss=Swiss Made claim. Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture Details and information are running rampant in this forum, but many new folks are not given the opportunity for truth due to rampant untruth and speculation.. The only untruth I have seen is Invicta's claim that they use Swiss Made movements in their watches marked Swiss. Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture If someone comes onboard, how many of you have the solution to their problem? Which of you recommends they contact someone who can help? Or, do you just give your two cents?. Lots of folks offer solutions and recommend contacts. Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture You can blame me for bringing up this subject, but it's each and every one who does not recommend a solution who is to blame for the shape this forum is in.. I think the forum is in great shape. What shape do you think it is in? Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture Those who come here, only to vent, are in need of direction. They need to know who to contact with their problem.. Perhaps you should re-read your post - it is the definition of a vent/rant. Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture They don't need to know how anyone else is having a problem worse than theirs. And, they don't need to read how Invicta or any other brand is garbage.. I never saw the word garbage used. I believe some folks do want to know about problems and that is a major reason folks frequent the forum. Invicta got cold busted. To some people it is no big deal and to others it is. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #28

Today, 11:28 AM

steverob Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Seattle, WA (and on the road weekly) Posts: 611 Real Name: Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback Swiss laws are valid and enforceable within the borders of Switzerland, not elsewhere. My statement accurately contains the facts of the matter. OK...I guess that makes sense. So, even if Invicta is assembling watches in Switzerland, they would have no problem with the Swiss government because they are labeling those particular watches as Swiss Made and they are. I know that Invicta is incorporated here in the USA, not in Switzerland. The real question would be do they operate their own factories in Switzerland or have work done for them there only under contract? Typically, if you have a corporate presence in a country, you can be bound by the laws of that country. For instance, I keep thinking back to officials of U.S. corporations who have been indicted here because of offering bribes overseas, even though bribery in the countries where they did it might be a normal way of doing business and didn't violate any local laws. steverob View Public Profile Send a private message to steverob Send email to steverob Find all posts by steverob Add steverob to Your Contacts #29 Today, 11:28 AM

Majorp2524

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I agree that this drama has gotten way old. The facts are out. Use the info in anyway you wish. As for me I never argue with or listen to people on a witch hunt once I know it's a witch hunt. Majorp2524 View Public Profile Send a private message to Majorp2524 Find all posts by Majorp2524 Add Majorp2524 to Your Contacts #30 Today, 11:35 AM

SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE They said it was a watch that met Swiss Federation guidelines with a Swiss Made movement. It has been proven they lied - it is an Asian watch, more than likely no part of it ever saw Switzerland.

Broad sweeping indictment with nothing to back it up.

I didn't blame Mike Davis for the Tin foil hat remark - I pointed out that he made the remark regarding folks who dared to question Invicta's Swiss=Swiss Made claim.

The only untruth I have seen is Invicta's claim that they use Swiss Made movements in their watches marked Swiss.

Lots of folks offer solutions and recommend contacts.

I think the forum is in great shape. What shape do you think it is in?

Perhaps you should re-read your post - it is the definition of a vent/rant.

I never saw the word garbage used. I believe some folks do want to know about problems and that is a major reason folks frequent the forum. Invicta got cold busted. To some people it is no big deal and to others it is. D Perhaps you'd like to crack open one or two of your watches and prove all of this?

Or, does it really matter to you? It doesn't matter to me at all. I have the one's I've bought and paid for, they're fun to look at and fun to wear. I'm not wasting my time trying to find something wrong with them. And, yes, you've been missing for a while. Someone DID call the brand garbage. It's a shame what I've seen some folks write in the last few months. Some are no longer here, and some still are. If you don't like the brand, you can always go somewhere else. __________________

DIAMANTE

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,797

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture Perhaps you'd like to crack open one or two of your watches and prove all of this? Or, does it really matter to you? I (and others) have done just that. There are pictures in the other thread if you care to take a look. Why does what other people post bother you so much? So what if someone says Invicta is garbage? Invicta is the only brand I wear - I'm

wearing an SAS right now. As I said Invicta got cold busted. Some people don't care and some people do. I'm aware I can buy whatever watch I want - but thanks for pointing that out. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #32 Today, 11:42 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Eastern VA. Blue Ridge MTNS. Posts: 2,562 Real Name: Lynn

bugduck Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture If you don't like the brand, you can always go somewhere else. Ditto: Agreed ! Well Said ! bugduck View Public Profile Send a private message to bugduck Send email to bugduck Find all posts by bugduck Add bugduck to Your Contacts #33 Today, 11:56 AM

SeaVulture Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,786 Real Name: William

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE I (and others) have done just that. There are pictures in the other thread if you care to take a look. Why does what other people post bother you so much? So what if someone says Invicta is garbage? Invicta is the only brand I wear - I'm wearing an SAS right now. As I said Invicta got cold busted. Some people don't care and some people do. I'm aware I can buy whatever watch I want - but thanks for pointing that out. D What thread are you referring to. I have not seen any pictures of watches with anything other than swiss movements, and marked swiss. Please, give us a link. __________________

DIAMANTE Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture What thread are you referring to.

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,797

I have not seen any pictures of watches with anything other than swiss movements, and marked swiss. Please, give us a link. Here is a pic. I have an Invicta marked Swiss with the Asian swiss parts Ronda 5040d. Quote:

Originally Posted by icewolf64 this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is still CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY

The thread is the othe Swiss Made thread that I started its near the top of the board now. It has over 600 responses (27 pages) other pictures are there as well. D

__________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #35 Today, 12:11 PM

My Watch

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EEEENOUGHHHHHHHHHHHH if you like the watch and can afford it buy it and if you think your being cheated go somewhere else Thank you My Watch View Public Profile Send a private message to My Watch Send email to My Watch Find all posts by My Watch Add My Watch to Your Contacts #36 Today, 12:14 PM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,352 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

William, I would also like to add the following which NO ONE seems to mention or they are unaware of its existence. In order to understand "Swiss Made" one MUST understand what there 2 paragraphs say. "In the case of products that have been only partly manufactured in Switzerland, the rule applies that the Swiss portion of the production cost (including basic materials, semi-finished products, accessories, wages and production overhead excluding distribution costs) must be at least 50%. The Swiss portion of the production cost must be at least 50%. • The most important part of the manufacturing process must have taken place in Switzerland. The “most important part of the manufacturing process” is that part of the process that results in a completely new product. The determining factor here is that the original

characteristics of the goods are lost through the manufacturing process, and the possible application of the goods is different from that of the basic materials of foreign origin used in their manufacture." In a watch/timepiece the part that results in a "completely new product" deals with CASE, BEZEL, DIAL. Movements do NOT result in a "completely new product". Therefore, a watch that meets the criteria above with a movement from XYZ may be labeled "Swiss Made". It is basically saying like an American Car (GM). It has parts from all over the world, it's assembled in Canada or maybe Mexico, but it IS an American Car! Why? Because as the Swiss state - "The determining factor here is that the original characteristics of the goods are lost through the manufacturing process, and the possible application of the goods is different from that of the basic materials of foreign origin used in their manufacture." __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon