Kahuna Cowboy
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,239 Real Name: Jeff
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by samuelrz Swiss Made means 51% per se. Why aren't you guys complaining about the other 49%??? Stop buying Invicta and let this thread die please. Yeah, that is not going to happen now. There are some mighty mad Watchgeeks at the moment who want an explanation why we have been told for years that when Invicta puts "Swiss" on the dial it means "Swiss Made" and that appears to not be the case at all. Even Michael the other night reposted this same Swiss = Swiss Made information on another similar thread and even made light of the fact that once again he had to explain it yet again. Why not just stay off this thread if it is of no concern to you? Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #143 Today, 03:05 AM Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,024 Real Name: Dave
icewolf64 Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by meijin When Invicta puts Swiss Made on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation have been used in the production of the watch.
When Invicta puts Swiss only on the dial, it means that the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation have been used in the production of the watch. When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Movt, it indicates that the movement in the watch is a Swiss Made movement, but the production of the watch does not follow all of the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Parts Movement, it means that a movement (usually from companies like Ronda, ISA, etc.) containing Swiss parts have been used and is generally been produced/assembled in a non-Swiss country. This has been discussed numerous times here and also on the shows that have aired for the last several years. So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being, that the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. Guess I am having a hard time with this right now Mike __________________
icewolf64 View Public Profile Send a private message to icewolf64 Find all posts by icewolf64 Add icewolf64 to Your Contacts #144 Today, 04:16 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,612 Real Name: Jim
bigjimzlll Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchdude1 No, I got where you are coming from. Well, it does mean something definitively if
you a member of the Swiss federation as the only way members of the federation may use this is if, in fact, the piece is Swiss made. However when Michael states that "Swiss" at the 6 position means the same thing as Swiss Made and that Invicta is following those guidelines set forth by the Swiss federation, I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful...
There you go __________________
bigjimzlll View Public Profile Send a private message to bigjimzlll Find all posts by bigjimzlll Add bigjimzlll to Your Contacts #145 Today, 04:24 AM
DIAMANTE
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,780
Senior Member Super Geek
Just, woke up and went through the thread. Thanks Icewolf for proving what I (and many others) suspected all along - Invictas marked Swiss use Chinese manufactured movements and are not Swiss Made. I've held off from writing this until we had proof - we now have it. We have been flat out lied to by Invicta and their representatives. I imagine the whole Resereve line being all Swiss Made is a lie as well. Just a matter of time before someone pops the back on one of those Reserve Venoms, SAS, or Akulas marked Swiss. Does anyone think the movement will be marked Swiss Made? I don't. It will be marked China as well. FWIW I popped the back on my OG II Chronograph that is marked Swiss Made and the movement is marked Swiss Made. This tells me they know exactly what they are doing and where the hard lines are. Just so I'm clear. I think the quality is the same rather they use a Chinese Ronda or a Swiss Ronda - thats not the issue. I can't stand being lied to. I have no respect for liars. All they had to do was come out and say something like, "we can't get our hands on enough ETA G10s to keep up with production so we had to turn to this Asian made Ronda 5040d. It is the same watch but because the movement is manufactured in China we can't mark the dial Swiss Made." I don't know, maybe sales would suffer from a statement like that but at least they would have their honor.
I can live with poor QC and CS but not this. Quote:
Originally Posted by meijin ....snip.....When Invicta uses the phrase Swiss Parts Movement, it means that a movement (usually from companies like Ronda, ISA, etc.) containing Swiss parts have been used and is generally been produced/assembled in a non-Swiss country. So, for Invicta, when we use Swiss or Swiss Made, it means the same thing. That being, that the watch was produced using the guidelines set forth by the Swiss Federation. Argument is meant to reveal truth.
I never thought I would write this but I think my recent SAN IV purchase is my last Invicta purchase.
D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #146 Today, 05:31 AM
Taxg8r00
Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 38
Member Member Geek
I would love for Jim or Mike to chime in on this topic. I rewatched a Tivo'd Watchtime from I believe Sunday at 3:00 pm eastern std. Mike was on and he said that "Swiss" on the dial of an Invicta is the same as "Swiss Made". I would like to hear his response to the watches in question. Taxg8r00 View Public Profile Send a private message to Taxg8r00 Send email to Taxg8r00 Find all posts by Taxg8r00 Add Taxg8r00 to Your Contacts #147 Today, 05:33 AM
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 113
jackson Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by icewolf64 the funny thing is that my excursion which is marked swiss made does in fact have a swiss made 8173 movt in it with a USA made Energizer battery. In the case of textiles, "USA made" encompasses little known American states like...Guam. jackson View Public Profile Send a private message to jackson Find all posts by jackson Add jackson to Your Contacts #148 Today, 06:29 AM Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 837
Owlwatch Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback ...Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing... Thank you sooooo much for stating! It seems so hard for some to wrap their brain around this basic fact! Unfortunately, it does not help when vendor hosts and show hosts make mistakes in their presentations. Now don't get me wrong...to error is human. At the same time, some WGs rest so strongly on the every word of certain folks that thinking becomes clouded. JMHO Owlwatch View Public Profile Send a private message to Owlwatch Find all posts by Owlwatch Add Owlwatch to Your Contacts #149 Today, 06:36 AM
X-James Junior Member New Geek
Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 20
Instead of harping on Invicta why not go to ShopNBC and ask there legal department to look into this matter? They are actually the ones who falsely advertised the product which you bought arent they? Granted, ShopNBC is selling it as how it was sold to them and the desciptions on the watches in question never really state them as being "Swiss Made" but the way they are presented by the manufacture, "LIVE" on the air could possibly be considered false advertising and possibly put them into a liable situation? X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James Add X-James to Your Contacts #150 Today, 06:57 AM
jackson
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 113
Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback My guess/hope would be that those labeled Swiss Made will indeed have Swiss Made movements. As to those labeled Swiss, time will tell, but one would also hope there is some reason U.S. Customs regulations haven't been followed if that proves to be the case. • Under 19 U.S.C.1304, as interpreted by Customs, the country of origin of the movement of the watch or clock determines the country of origin of the watch or clock. Although the addition of the hands, dial, or case adds definition to the timepiece, they do not substantially change the character or use of the watch or clock movement, which is the essence of the watch or clock. Accordingly, a watch with one country of origin for the movement, another for the case, and another for the battery, is considered, for purposes of 19 USC 1304, to be a product of the country in which the movement was produced. The movement's country of origin should appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back of the watch. No evidence as of yet that Invicta or other purveyors did not carve out exceptions for themselves exempting them from the U.S. Customs regulations governing "Swiss" labeled watches, but there have been news reports lately of Federal regulatory bodies being coopted by the very entities they have been entrusted to oversee. In the regulatory universe enforcing country of origin requirements for watches doesn't exactly head the list of important priorities nor should it. If the regulatory process can be subverted in areas of life that are vitally important to everyone why should anyone be surprised that regulations governing the concerns of a comparatively very small group of luxury watch buyers and watch hobbyists are on the books but unenforced (I am shocked, shocked). My guess is that Customs has taken a laissez-faire attitude in this area of enforcement and that no exception is necessary for this practice to thrive.
Last edited by jackson; Today at 07:11 AM. Reason: Ben Bradlee isn't taking my calls.
Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,356
Bahoomba Senior Member Super Geek
Icewolf, Dude, you're my hero. There are 1,000 things I could chime in with right now, but i won't. But I will say this: A year ago, I stopped making obvious and silly mistakes with my watch hobby...read into that what you will. And Icewolf, posts like yours just makes my decision all the wiser. Bahoomba View Public Profile Send a private message to Bahoomba Find all posts by Bahoomba Add Bahoomba to Your Contacts #152 Today, 08:56 AM
jackson
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 113
Senior Member Senior Geek
LOL! What are you guys, a bunch of conspiracy theorists? I'm with Bahoomba, Icewolf and many other Geeks deserve the Watchgeek Medal Of Honor for fidelity to the truth. Come on fellas, who are you gonna believe, Invicta, the Shop, or your lyin' eyes? jackson View Public Profile Send a private message to jackson Find all posts by jackson Add jackson to Your Contacts #153 Today, 09:25 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,660 Real Name: Steve "Swolle"
Swolletime Senior Member Super Geek
Wow.. very interesting. Thanks for those pics... it really uncovered alot. And yes all this Swiss talk matters.. I don't want to pay $500 Invicta claimed to be Swiss Made when indeed it says "China" on movement.
Besides that, I'm saving ALL these pages and images.. I have a feeling this thread will disappear soon... LOL
Soo.. who wants to open up a SAN IV ?? __________________
.. SAS VallĂŠe de Joux 7750 Swolletime View Public Profile Send a private message to Swolletime Find all posts by Swolletime Add Swolletime to Your Contacts #154 Today, 09:25 AM
kless13 Member Member Geek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 40 Real Name: Ken
Thanks Icewolf, this thread is the best! I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of this, if we continue to pursue the issue at hand. I vote this "the thread of the year"! kless13
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reliefcp
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,538 Real Name: C.J.
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
This explains a lot of things for me and it makes me respect those other vendors much more. __________________
reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #156 Today, 10:02 AM
timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
The next question is when will Invicta and ShopNBC address this matter and make a
statement to the public / viewing audience, i.e. claiming certain Invicta watches are "Swiss Made" when in fact the movements are Chinese with Swiss parts? Or will nothing be mentioned? __________________
timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #157 Today, 10:35 AM
jackson
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 113
Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolletime Wow.. very interesting. Thanks for those pics... it really uncovered alot. And yes all this Swiss talk matters.. I don't want to pay $500 Invicta claimed to be Swiss Made when indeed it says "China" on movement.
Besides that, I'm saving ALL these pages and images.. I have a feeling this thread will disappear soon... LOL
Soo.. who wants to open up a SAN IV ?? Man, now that's Orwellian. Have threads literally been disappeared and do you have proof of that, or do you mean simply that other threads have been prematurely locked down? I was wondering how soon before we can expect an announcement to be made that pending an investigation into the matter the thread will be locked down, but I was too afraid to say so. Last edited by jackson; Today at 11:05 AM. Reason: Inane final question self-deleted and didn't want to put words in your mouth.
jackson View Public Profile
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erictrumpet
Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,873
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeman The next question is when will Invicta and ShopNBC address this matter and make a statement to the public / viewing audience, i.e. claiming certain Invicta watches are "Swiss Made" when in fact the movements are Chinese with Swiss parts? Or will nothing be mentioned? I think you answered your own question Eric. __________________
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DIAMANTE
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,780
Senior Member Super Geek
I don't imagine they are going to say anything. They are probably banking on this issue just going away. The next shoe to drop is going to be the Reserve line models (Venom, SAS, Akula) being exposed as having Chinese movements. Here is another Reserve model previously labeled as Swiss Made with a new movement now labeled simply Swiss.
D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts
#160 Today, 10:46 AM
reliefcp
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,538 Real Name: C.J.
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
I just heard MD explain Swiss=Swiss Made on TV. I think he actually meant Swiss=Chinese. __________________
reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #161 Today, 11:03 AM
tampa8
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa FLorida & Storrs Ct Posts: 1,052
Senior Member Super Geek
I am amazed how there are some people who insist this has been beat to death, or simply say what's the difference. Other hobby sites I go to the posters want to know the complete details of their hobby. Certainly so if they are told something by the company or manufacturer that now may not be the case. For probably most of us who do care, it has less to do with if the watches are or are not "Swiss Made." It has everything to do with the possible misleading of where the watches are made and what parts are in them. I also have to wonder if the number of
problems in the more recent Invicta watches is connected to how\where they are assembled. Also how it would effect the already falling prices of Invicta watches that we own. To balance my reply some, if I am understanding where we are now. No one is saying Invicta is labeling watches as Swiss Made when they are not. Invicta has changed their label to Swiss on some watches, and on some models previously labeled as Swiss made, and it appears those watches would not meet what Swiss Made means. The problem is centering around the words used by Invicta representatives that seem to indicate their stance is the "Swiss" label, means the same as the "Swiss Made" label. If this is wrong am interested in hearing what more there is. __________________ Remember, watches are people too. tampa8 View Public Profile Send a private message to tampa8 Find all posts by tampa8 Add tampa8 to Your Contacts #162 Today, 11:27 AM
Kahuna Cowboy
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,239 Real Name: Jeff
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliefcp I just heard MD explain Swiss=Swiss Made on TV. I think he actually meant Swiss=Chinese. To be fair to Michael, that is his job. To provide points of interest and echo information given to him by his superiors. If Eyal told him to put on a chicken suit and walk into KFC and tell them "extra crispy this" you do it if you want to keep your job. Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #163 Today, 11:29 AM
Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,762
Argabright Senior Member Super Geek
"It doesn't matter" and "You're beating a dead horse" are "Geek-Speak" for: "I don't want you to post any information that put's Invicta or it's primary sales channel in a bad light." Many people here are quite invested in Invicta and ShopNBC and this type of information is very uncomfortable to hear. __________________
Argabright View Public Profile Send a private message to Argabright Find all posts by Argabright Add Argabright to Your Contacts #164 Today, 11:30 AM Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,762
Argabright Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy To be fair to Michael, that is his job. To provide points of interest and echo
information given to him by his superiors. If Eyal told him to put on a chicken suit and walk into KFC and tell them "extra crispy this" you do it if you want to keep your job. I'm glad I get to tell the truth and still keep my job. Just sayin' __________________
Argabright View Public Profile Send a private message to Argabright Find all posts by Argabright Add Argabright to Your Contacts #165 Today, 11:59 AM
reliefcp
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,538 Real Name: C.J.
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy To be fair to Michael, that is his job. To provide points of interest and echo information given to him by his superiors. If Eyal told him to put on a chicken suit and walk into KFC and tell them "extra crispy this" you do it if you want to keep your job. That my friend is the sad state of affairs.Maybe avoiding it may have been better. __________________
reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #166 Today, 12:05 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,660 Real Name: Steve "Swolle"
Swolletime Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson Man, now that's Orwellian. Have threads literally been disappeared and do you have proof of that, or do you mean simply that other threads have been prematurely locked down? I was wondering how soon before we can expect an announcement to be made that pending an investigation into the matter the thread will be locked down, but I was too afraid to say so. LOL.. yes threads have disappeared. Since they have disappeared I have no proof But thats the point... no thread no proof. Some other Vets can back that up.... You should be afraid... very afraid... j/k __________________
.. SAS VallĂŠe de Joux 7750 Swolletime View Public Profile Send a private message to Swolletime Find all posts by Swolletime Add Swolletime to Your Contacts #167 Today, 12:05 PM Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA Posts: 1,261 Real Name: Eric.
emathieu Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliefcp That my friend is the sad state of affairs.Maybe avoiding it may have been better. Well, it's quite possible that Michael may not have even known that a movement of Chinese origin is in these watches. Now Eyal of course, would know... And the fact that he has said they are "all swiss" is a problem. __________________ Eric. emathieu View Public Profile Send a private message to emathieu Find all posts by emathieu Add emathieu to Your Contacts #168 Today, 12:20 PM
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,299 Real Name: Paul
heavyjumbo Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathieu Well, it's quite possible that Michael may not have even known that a movement of Chinese origin is in these watches. Now Eyal of course, would know... And the fact that he has said they are "all swiss" is a problem. Does anyone have the date and time of the ShopNBC broadcast when Eyal said that a watch with "Swiss" on the dial is the same as Swiss Made? I would like to see this for myself - not that I dont believe you. Thanks. __________________ Paul G. Boca Raton, FL heavyjumbo View Public Profile Send a private message to heavyjumbo Find all posts by heavyjumbo Add heavyjumbo to Your Contacts #169 Today, 12:23 PM
Kahuna Cowboy
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,239 Real Name: Jeff
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by reliefcp That my friend is the sad state of affairs.Maybe avoiding it may have been better. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Michael has known he is passing along bad info, just the info he is given. Let's not forget Michael is satellite from Invicta HQ, it's not like he overseas any of the operations from a production standpoint. Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile
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heavyjumbo Senior Member Super Geek
If you are a watch salesman on national television or a person who represents the manufacturer, you should know if you are selling a swiss made timepiece or a timepiece with a chinese movement. End of story. __________________ Paul G. Boca Raton, FL heavyjumbo View Public Profile Send a private message to heavyjumbo Find all posts by heavyjumbo Add heavyjumbo to Your Contacts #171 Today, 12:31 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,660 Real Name: Steve "Swolle"
Swolletime Senior Member Super Geek
I'm not jumping to any conclusions but take Mike's position as an example. In majority of corporations only the owner or high execs MAY know about operations,while sales and lower end employees do not know and are never told . History has shown this. __________________
.. SAS VallĂŠe de Joux 7750 Swolletime View Public Profile Send a private message to Swolletime Find all posts by Swolletime Add Swolletime to Your Contacts #172 Today, 12:39 PM
Gregg
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vallejo, Calif. Posts: 2,068 Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchdude1 The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if company X (like Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold up as being Swiss Made. Frankly, Michael's post should also be a sticky as to Invicta's company policy and should be controlling until such time as anyone can prove that Invicta using "Swiss" at the 6 does NOT mean "Swiss Made." There are final answers as to what the law says, but there is also "final answers" in terms of what the actual reality is. It serves no purpose to use the regs and guidelines to denounce a company that is not part of the Swiss federation without the corresponding proof that they are bending those guidelines to their advantage. Exactly because Invicta is not part of the Federation, and this has also been beaten severely.
Gregg View Public Profile Send a private message to Gregg Find all posts by Gregg Add Gregg to Your Contacts #173 Today, 12:51 PM
Gregg
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vallejo, Calif. Posts: 2,068 Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback Your series of pictures are the first documented proof that I've seen from a known source of an Asian movement in an Invicta watch with only "Swiss" on the dial. Perhaps Invicata should clarify their position given what you've shown us. At the very least, provide an explanation for what you found in your RD. I know I'm way behind on this but Invicta is not part of the Federation so does this really matter? Gregg View Public Profile Send a private message to Gregg Find all posts by Gregg Add Gregg to Your Contacts #174 Today, 12:54 PM
timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyjumbo Does anyone have the date and time of the ShopNBC broadcast when Eyal said that a watch with "Swiss" on the dial is the same as Swiss Made? I would like to see this for myself - not that I dont believe you. Thanks. Here is the post on the ShopNBC watch (J176920) that has "Swiss" on the dial and a Chinese movement with Swiss parts. Quote:
Originally Posted by icewolf64 this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is still CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY
Here is the post where Eyal says on the video that the watch is "All Swiss". View the video for J176920. Quote:
Originally Posted by timeman Invicta Men's Russian Diver Quinotaur Swiss Quartz GMT Rubber Strap Watch J176920 http://www.shopnbc.com/PRODUCT/?trac...h-_-family-_-N
In the video it's stated the watch is "All Swiss." __________________
timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #175 Today, 12:54 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,382 Real Name: Brad
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg I know I'm way behind on this but Invicta is not part of the Federation so does this really matter? U.S. Customs labeling regulations governs country of origin designation on watches sold in the United States, the Swiss Federation has nothing to do with it outside of their registered trademark on Swiss Made. I posted the customs regs more than once in this thread. You might want to read the whole thing instead of commenting along the way. __________________
Taxg8r00
Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 38
Member Member Geek
I will check my TIVO but I believe it was the Invicta Event at 3:00 pm either Sunday or yesterday (sorry the long weekend is screwing up my memory). I actually watched it this morning and sure enough Michael said that Swiss = Swiss Made on Invicta's. Taxg8r00 View Public Profile
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JoeH
Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Machester, Ct. Posts: 1,654 Real Name: Joe H
Senior Member Super Geek
Check out the other post on this subject... Jim has posted many of times explaining... __________________
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Argabright Senior Member Super Geek
The intricacies of Swiss law really aren't the point. Invicta, through multiple representatives, have repeatedly represented watches as being Swiss Made when they aren't. When you buy an Invicta product you cannot be certain which, if any, of the claims being made about it are true. __________________
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timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback U.S. Customs labeling regulations governs country of origin designation on watches sold in the United States, the Swiss Federation has nothing to do with it outside of their registered trademark on Swiss Made. I posted the customs regs more than once in this thread. You might want to read the whole thing instead of commenting along the way. I have read the U.S. Customs labeling regulations. It states a watch company needs to list the country of origin that manufactured the movement, either on the dial or case back. In this particular case the watch had a Chinese movement with Swiss parts. So instead of having "Swiss" on the dial, it should have read "China" on the dial or case back. I believe the phase "Swiss Parts Movement" in lieu of China might also
be acceptable. __________________
timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #180 Today, 01:13 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeman I have read the U.S. Customs labeling regulations. It states a watch company needs to list the country of origin that manufactured the movement, either on the dial or case back. In this particular case the watch had a Chinese movement with Swiss made parts. So instead of having "Swiss" on the dial, it should have read "China" on the dial or case back. I believe the phase "Swiss Parts Movement" in lieu of China might also be acceptable. Actually, to be fare here, in icewolf's two examples, those were Swiss Movements (ISA Movements), that were assembled in China (hence, stamped "China" and "Far East Assembly"). Then in this case labeled Swiss at the 6 O'clock, Swiss ≠Swiss Made. Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts
#181 Today, 01:18 PM
timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Bandit Actually, to be fare here, in icewolf's two examples, those were Swiss Movements (ISA Movements), that were assembled in China (hence, stamped "China" and "Far East Assembly"). Then in this case labeled Swiss at the 6 O'clock, then Swiss ≠Swiss Made. I agree they were ISA movements, but were assembled in China. So no way can it be a Swiss made movement, let alone a "Swiss Made" watch. __________________
timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #182 Today, 01:18 PM Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA Posts: 1,261 Real Name: Eric.
emathieu Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Bandit
Actually, to be fare here, in icewolf's two examples, those were Swiss Movements (ISA Movements), that were assembled in China (hence, stamped "China" and "Far East Assembly"). Then in this case labeled Swiss at the 6 O'clock, then Swiss ≠Swiss Made. Correct, which is unfortunately counter to what has been said repeatedly - which is that with Invicta, Swiss = Swiss Made. All they had to say is that Swiss = Swiss Parts Movement and this wouldn't even be an issue. __________________ Eric. emathieu View Public Profile Send a private message to emathieu Find all posts by emathieu Add emathieu to Your Contacts #183 Today, 01:24 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,382 Real Name: Brad
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Bandit Actually, to be fare here, in icewolf's two examples, those were Swiss Movements (ISA Movements), that were assembled in China (hence, stamped "China" and "Far East Assembly"). Then in this case labeled Swiss at the 6 O'clock, Swiss ≠Swiss Made. Which boils down to what customs considers the country of origin. Is it where the parts are made, or where they're assembled. Since they make no reference to this that I can find, and since if you asked me to I could argue it one way or the other, finding out how they view this may be the Rosetta stone of whether or not "Swiss" may be placed on the dial. Also, how does this work with or against custom's requirement that the country of origin is to be engraved on the movement. Without further information, I would think the country shown on the movement would govern. __________________
Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #184 Today, 01:42 PM
timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback Which boils down to what customs considers the country of origin. Is it where the parts are made, or where their assembled. Since they make no reference to this that I can find, and since if you asked me to I could argue it one way or the other, My interpretation of the word origin is where the movement was manufactured, in this case China. Since the regulation makes no mention as to the origin of the movement's parts in determining the origin of the movement; it's my opinion it doesn't make a difference where the parts were made but where they were assembled. Isn't this the reason why they call a watch with Swiss parts and made / assembled someplace other then Switzerland a "Swiss Parts Movement"? This ambiguity might be used as an explanation in why they placed "Swiss" on the dial. However, interrupting the U.S. Customs law, if Chinese movement parts were assembled into a movement in Switzerland, would it be considered a "Swiss Made" movement. Interesting. I wouldn't be surprised that Switzerland has a law against this. __________________
timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #185 Today, 01:49 PM
DIAMANTE
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,780
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by emathieu Correct, which is unfortunately counter to what has been said repeatedly - which is that with Invicta, Swiss = Swiss Made. All they had to say is that Swiss = Swiss Parts Movement and this wouldn't even be an issue. Exactly. The whole things is just so stupid and dishonest. I mean come on, all someone had to do was unscrew a caseback and expose a Chinese movement in what was repeatedly described by the CEO of Invicta and the authorized spokesman as a Swiss Made watch meeting Swiss Federation guidelines. Honesty is always the best policy. I can't wait for someone to pull the back off of a Reserve model with Swiss on the dial. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #186 Today, 01:56 PM
Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 113
jackson Senior Member Senior Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback Which boils down to what customs considers the country of origin. Is it where the parts are made, or where their assembled. Since they make no reference to this that I can find, and since if you asked me to I could argue it one way or the other, finding out how they view this may be the Rosetta stone of whether or not "Swiss" may be placed on the dial. Also, how does this work with or against custom's requirement that the country of origin is to be engraved on the movement. Without further information, I would think the country shown on the movement would govern. I think most of us who have been following this discussion would agree that the country shown on the movement would govern origin and how the dial should be labeled. But if this is not the case, wouldn't you think the issue would turn on which country adds the bulk of the value (51%) to the unassembled movement parts considered in toto? But then again, what if there's no one country providing the majority of the value? My head hurts. Last edited by jackson; Today at 02:18 PM. Reason: Added "unassembled".
jackson View Public Profile Send a private message to jackson Find all posts by jackson Add jackson to Your Contacts #187 Today, 01:57 PM
Gregg
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vallejo, Calif. Posts: 2,068 Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback U.S. Customs labeling regulations governs country of origin designation on watches sold in the United States, the Swiss Federation has nothing to do with it outside of their registered trademark on Swiss Made. I posted the customs regs more than once in this thread. You might want to read the whole thing instead of commenting along the way. Actually I have read them, but not recently, and I did post my comments before I read through all these posts, so please don't assume for me. The bigger issue here now is what the pics have revealed I believe. So beating a dead horse does reveal the truth as it were,
and I take back those comments! Gregg View Public Profile Send a private message to Gregg Find all posts by Gregg Add Gregg to Your Contacts #188 Today, 02:01 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,382 Real Name: Brad
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Actually I have read them, but not recently, and I did post my comments before I read through all these posts, so please don't assume for me. The bigger issue here now is what the pics have revealed I believe. So beating a dead horse does reveal the truth as it were, and I take back those comments! Don't see how I was making an assumption for you under any circumstances. I was merely pointing out that the comments you were bringing to the table were already addressed in the thread. In any case, and without question, the pictures are the larger issue and need to be specifically addressed by Invicta. __________________
Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #189 Today, 02:07 PM
DIAMANTE
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,780
Senior Member Super Geek
I'll add that it is very shortsighted to sell out your companies name and reputation for some perceived "edge" that might result from misleading consumers to beleive you are selling a Swiss Made product. They've sullied the whole brand name. It's a shame to because they do actually make some fine Swiss Made watches. Passing these Chinese movement watches of as Swiss Made is disgraceful and an insult to loyal Invicta customers. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #190 Today, 03:19 PM
ivalentin Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Killeen, Texas Posts: 283 Real Name: Ivan
Some of you need to do your homework before you start posting something that you know nothing about. Have a great day. ivalentin View Public Profile Send a private message to ivalentin Send email to ivalentin Find all posts by ivalentin Add ivalentin to Your Contacts #191 Today, 03:20 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,382 Real Name: Brad
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivalentin Some of you need to do your homework before you start posting something that you know nothing about. Have a great day. You should really say what are you're alluding to. __________________
Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #192 Today, 03:22 PM Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 732 Real Name: Gary
gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivalentin Some of you need to do your homework before you start posting something that you know nothing about. Have a great day. What exactly did you have in mind Ivan?
__________________ Bullwinkle: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" gman66 View Public Profile Send a private message to gman66 Find all posts by gman66 Add gman66 to Your Contacts #193 Today, 04:22 PM
erictrumpet
Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,873
Senior Member Super Geek
I believe this thread is losing steam and is at risk of in-fighting. I suspect the powers that be would love to see this thread turn into a fight among members, then shut it down. Stop disagreeing, Geeks. The details of Swiss law and U.S. Customs law is not the issue! Questionable representation of the product is the issue. Stay focused until an official response is posted. Eric. __________________
erictrumpet View Public Profile Send a private message to erictrumpet Find all posts by erictrumpet Add erictrumpet to Your Contacts #194 Today, 04:27 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictrumpet I believe this thread is losing steam and is at risk of in-fighting. I suspect the powers that be would love to see this thread turn into a fight among members, then shut it down. Stop disagreeing, Geeks. The details of Swiss law and U.S. Customs law is not the issue! Questionable representation of the product is the issue. Stay focused until an official response is posted. Eric. Eric, Once again, I totally agree with you. I would like to add though, I for one would like to see a Response without the thread being closed afterwards too. I would like to see an Opportunity for followup questions afterwards. __________________
Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #195 Today, 04:33 PM
tampa8 Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivalentin
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa FLorida & Storrs Ct Posts: 1,052
Some of you need to do your homework before you start posting something that you know nothing about. Have a great day. I don't think anyone gets what you mean. I would be interested in any facts you can give us about the use of Swiss on Invicta watches and the explanation that it means Swiss Made..... __________________ Remember, watches are people too. tampa8 View Public Profile Send a private message to tampa8 Find all posts by tampa8 Add tampa8 to Your Contacts #196 Today, 04:34 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 38
Taxg8r00 Member Member Geek
I think the key is to keep this thread at the top of this board until we get an explanation. I know I will not buy another Invicta until I get an answer. Taxg8r00 View Public Profile Send a private message to Taxg8r00 Send email to Taxg8r00 Find all posts by Taxg8r00 Add Taxg8r00 to Your Contacts #197 Today, 04:38 PM
Jor084 Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: OC, CA Posts: 345 Real Name: Jorge
Quote:
Originally Posted by icewolf64 this is the Quinataur I bought a year ago approximately from Shopnbc J #176920 this one at least has a gilt movement in it with 9 jewels instead of three however is still CHINA and FAR EAST ASSY
This has me a little puzzled. Is there something missing here? Why is the pusher not connected to anything? Edit: Nevermind, I went back to look at the other pics and now I see what is going on now. __________________
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timeman
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,705 Real Name: Jerry
Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Michael is presenting the Invicta Men's Sea Spider II Swiss Chronograph J179574 at this moment on ShopNBC. It only has "Swiss" on the dial. Lets see if he calls it a "Swiss Made" watch. Case back also states "Swiss Chronograph Movement." The presentation is over no mention as to the movement at all. No mention of the "Swiss" on the dial. __________________
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unclefixit
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,445 Real Name: Jay
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by timeman Michael is presenting the Invicta Men's Sea Spider II Swiss Chronograph J179574 at this moment on ShopNBC. It only has "Swiss" on the dial. Lets see if he calls it a "Swiss Made" watch. Case back also states "Swiss Chronograph Movement." The presentation is over no mention as to the movement at all. No mention of the "Swiss" on the dial. Timeman in this instance, the movement being a Ronda 5040d, will be easier to identify as Ronda produce their movements in two colors, Gilted in gold = Swiss movements and silvertone movements being Asian built movements. I'm not sure if these practices are used by ETA or ISA in regard to their quartz movements. unclefixit View Public Profile Send a private message to unclefixit Find all posts by unclefixit Add unclefixit to Your Contacts #200 Today, 05:21 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 732 Real Name: Gary
gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quiet out there. Haven't seen anything from someone representing the supply side of this issue. Interesting... __________________ Bullwinkle: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,382 Real Name: Brad
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by gman66 Quiet out there. Haven't seen anything from someone representing the supply side of this issue. Interesting... Michael's on air as we speak, but I did see Jim commenting in a couple of threads within the last 30 minutes. Maybe we'll see him chime in as he gets caught up with the forum after the long weekend. __________________
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#202 Today, 05:42 PM Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 732 Real Name: Gary
gman66 Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback Michael's on air as we speak, but I did see Jim commenting in a couple of threads within the last 30 minutes. Maybe we'll see him chime in as he gets caught up with the forum after the long weekend. Yep. Saw his thread on the new Sea Hunter. __________________ Bullwinkle: "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" gman66 View Public Profile Send a private message to gman66 Find all posts by gman66 Add gman66 to Your Contacts #203 Today, 06:48 PM Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,024 Real Name: Dave
icewolf64 Senior Member Super Geek
As to some out there that say big deal who cares, obviously some do care as this is why the swiss federation came up with their laws to begin with. Maybe you don't care and personally I don't care on the RD with the distressed strap that I picked up at WOW for 108.00 but as for the other RD I got from Shop at a price of 210.00 I do care that I was mislead. Big problem is that it is obvious that deceit was used here, So how do I know for sure that the swiss made watches are truely put together in Switzerland. If you are caught in a lie then you lose a lot of credibility.
I am glad that many are appreciative of me posting my pictures, I think all should know what they are truely buying. __________________
icewolf64 View Public Profile Send a private message to icewolf64 Find all posts by icewolf64 Add icewolf64 to Your Contacts #204 Today, 07:20 PM
DIAMANTE
Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,780
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefixit Timeman in this instance, the movement being a Ronda 5040d, will be easier to identify as Ronda produce their movements in two colors, Gilted in gold = Swiss movements and silvertone movements being Asian built movements. I'm not sure if these practices are used by ETA or ISA in regard to their quartz movements. I realized I own one Invicta marked Swiss. It is the Invicta Grand Lupah. I bought it late 2006/early 2007. When I received it I was surprised that it had simply Swiss on the dial. The pictures on SNBC showed the dial with Swiss Movement. When I asked about it I was told "Swiss = Swiss Made, you got lucky newer run all Swiss Made." Anyway, since were opening up watches I just opened it up. Hard to make out from the picture but the movement is silvertone (Asian built) it is marked Swiss Parts, 6 jewels, Ronda 5040d. The picture showing Swiss on the dial has the original Hadley Roma strap. I currently have a brown leather strap on it - it is the same watch.
D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #205 Today, 07:21 PM
reliefcp Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,539 Real Name: C.J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by icewolf64 As to some out there that say big deal who cares, obviously some do care as this is why the swiss federation came up with their laws to begin with. Maybe you don't care and personally I don't care on the RD with the distressed strap that I picked up at WOW for 108.00 but as for the other RD I got from Shop at a price of 210.00 I do care that I was mislead. Big problem is that it is obvious that deceit was used here, So how do I know for sure that the swiss made watches are truely put together in Switzerland. If you are caught in a lie then you lose a lot of credibility. I am glad that many are appreciative of me posting my pictures, I think all should know what they are truely buying. I appreciate your postings and was a non believer before I sawthem.Deceit in anything is never a good thing especially on national TV where your facts can be proven otherwise.I personally do not own any (SWISS) only on a dial but it makes me wonder what do I have. __________________
reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #206 Today, 07:44 PM
crazyjay616 Member Member Geek
I would definitely like to see more movement pics. crazyjay616
Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 32
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InvictaValjoux Junior Member New Geek
This is a very sad day for me (and other Invicta customers). Our eyes are finally opened. I was under the impression that I was making sound judgements in how I spend my watch dollars. It just looks as though more disappointments are just around the corner as more geeks open casebacks. I don't know how this can possibly be spinned any other way? InvictaValjoux View Public Profile Send a private message to InvictaValjoux Find all posts by InvictaValjoux Add InvictaValjoux to Your Contacts #208 Today, 08:21 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
I have this horrible sick feeling inside my gut. It won't go away until I can open my casebacks. My tools suck, and on my Lupah that is labeled SWISS, I can only get 3 out of 4 screws out. I need better screwdrivers. For my Russian Divers, my caseback tool is too small and won't accomodate the large case size. I am going out tomorrow to buy some new tools.
It looks like my Russian Divers and Lupahs are going to be made in China, I'd like to see someone open a SAN III Quartz that is labeled Swiss __________________
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law101 Senior Member Senior Geek
you might be happier not knowing __________________
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Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 226
Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by law101 you might be happier not knowing You may be right, __________________
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kless13 Member Member Geek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 40 Real Name: Ken
I am also sad about the news. I own over 60 invictas. Mostly, Swiss Made, and very few Swiss Parts & Swiss. I understand that in a business with as massive a competition as the watch business has, it's important to cut costs wisely and as often as you can to make a profit. However, to lie about it to make a sale, could cost you your entire business. This is a big deal!, nothing to be taken lightly. Keep this thread alive until we get some satisfying answers. It's only fair to us "Watch Geeks".
kless13 View Public Profile Send a private message to kless13 Find all posts by kless13 Add kless13 to Your Contacts #212 Today, 08:28 PM
law101
Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 226
Senior Member Senior Geek
is this why the MSRP's are going down on some watches I see they have a leather band akula for 219 or something and it is labeled SWISS, the same for the sea spiders they say swiss now __________________
law101 View Public Profile Send a private message to law101 Find all posts by law101 Add law101 to Your Contacts #213 Today, 08:54 PM
kless13 Member Member Geek
Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 40 Real Name: Ken
Interesting to note, that yesterday or the day before I believe it was, shop offered a new Invicta S1 Touring Edition on a rubber strap for about $135. I remember buying this watch with the quilted band on sale for about $275. (about twice as much). Mine was Swiss Made and this one just said SWISS. Now it all makes sense. Swiss is not Swiss Made! http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...aspx?storeid=1 kless13 View Public Profile Send a private message to kless13 Find all posts by kless13 Add kless13 to Your Contacts
#214 Today, 08:55 PM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,612 Real Name: Jim
bigjimzlll Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by kless13 I am also sad about the news. I own over 60 invictas. Mostly, Swiss Made, and very few Swiss Parts & Swiss. I understand that in a business with as massive a competition as the watch business has, it's important to cut costs wisely and as often as you can to make a profit. However, to lie about it to make a sale, could cost you your entire business. This is a big deal!, nothing to be taken lightly. Keep this thread alive until we get some satisfying answers. It's only fair to us "Watch Geeks". There can be no "satisfying answers" Either Mike Davis unknowingly mislead us...or he did what salesmen(in general) do. Say what ever it takes to make a sale. I don't include the other ShopNBC sales people in this, because they do not directly work for Invicta. This next part is just my opinion...the first part is pretty much dead on. The CEO of Invicta has to know. This is the "dirty little secret" of the watch world. For every one of us Geeks who feel mislead and stop buying Invicta...there will be 2 new ones to take our place __________________
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unclefixit
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,445 Real Name: Jay
Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIAMANTE I realized I own one Invicta marked Swiss. It is the Invicta Grand Lupah. I bought it late 2006/early 2007. When I received it I was surprised that it had simply Swiss on the dial. The pictures on SNBC showed the dial with Swiss Movement. When I asked about it I was told "Swiss = Swiss Made, you got lucky newer run all Swiss Made." Anyway, since were opening up watches I just opened it up. Hard to make out from the picture but the movement is silvertone (Asian built) it is marked Swiss Parts, 6 jewels, Ronda 5040d. The picture showing Swiss on the dial has the original Hadley Roma strap. I currently have a brown leather strap on it - it is the same watch.
D Not that i'm doubting you but are your pics of two different watches. First pic appears to be a cuff style black strap and the second appears to be on a traditional style brown strap. Just curious... I also went looking through my quartz powered Invictas' looking for the various ways they've been labeled and came up with a few items I plan on opening up to see what's under the hood. BTW, I own a lupah Grand also, powered by an ETA g10.711, and the dail is labeled..."Swiss Movt."...I expect to find a non-Swiss made movement in that one, but we'll see. I also have two Lupah Dragons powered by Ronda Startech 5040Ds' and their dails are labeled "Swiss". On those three the casebacks all say "Swiss Chronograph". I have two Lupah Revolutions both powered by an ETA g10.211, and those are labeled "Swiss Made" on both dail and caseback. All of these are 100m w.r. with screwed down casebacks. I will be voiding my warrenties on these watches for the info. gathered...CS at Invicta will be notified. If I had the proper tool, i'd pop open my Speedway Anatomic just to get some clear pics of the "Swiss" labeled, gilt in goldtone, Ronda Startech 5040D movement...and yes the dail and caseback are labeled "Swiss Made" on that one. unclefixit View Public Profile Send a private message to unclefixit Find all posts by unclefixit Add unclefixit to Your Contacts #216
Today, 09:09 PM Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 40 Real Name: Ken
kless13 Member Member Geek
It's a numbers game with many watch companies, and Invicta is probably leading the pack. However, it's just as important or maybe more important to know the ethical way on how to get to those numbers as apposed to just getting them. kless13 View Public Profile Send a private message to kless13 Find all posts by kless13 Add kless13 to Your Contacts #217 Today, 09:25 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefixit Not that i'm doubting you but are your pics of two different watches. First pic appears to be a cuff style black strap and the second appears to be on a traditional style brown strap. Just curious... DIAMANTE went offline, So I'll chime in here. With that Dragon Lupah, it is on a Lagarto Style Strap, as well as other Invicta models like the I-Force for instance. It has a Military theme to it. Rather than explaining it badly, here's a pic of another watch with that kind of strap.
__________________
Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #218 Today, 09:28 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: colorado Posts: 974
MREXE Senior Member Veteran Geek
I opened 3 of my 4 SANIII's today, the quartz ones marked "swiss made"......all swiss movements.........need a bigger tool to work on the RD;s.........now, I will open all "swiss" marked watches.....got a bad feeling there......... no china stamp on inside of the SANIII's or elsewhere.......not uncommon.......... MREXE View Public Profile Send a private message to MREXE Find all posts by MREXE Add MREXE to Your Contacts #219 Today, 09:28 PM
Kahuna Cowboy
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,239 Real Name: Jeff
Senior Member Super Geek
OMG, Time Bandit your sig pic made me shoot Diet Coke out of my nose. Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #220 Today, 09:43 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 7,997
GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjimzlll There can be no "satisfying answers" Either Mike Davis unknowingly mislead us...or he did what salesmen(in general) do. Say what ever it takes to make a sale. I don't include the other ShopNBC sales people in this, because they do not directly work for Invicta. This next part is just my opinion...the first part is pretty much dead on. The CEO of Invicta has to know. This is the "dirty little secret" of the watch world. For every one of us Geeks who feel mislead and stop buying Invicta...there will be 2 new ones to take our place
I have known Mike for many years now... He would not knowingly mislead anyone... I'm sure he was relaying the information he had at hand... JMHO. __________________
"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #221 Today, 09:51 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,612 Real Name: Jim
bigjimzlll Senior Member Super Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy
I have known Mike for many years now... He would not knowingly mislead anyone... I'm sure he was relaying the information he had at hand... JMHO. That's what I figured. I'm sure he's just as upset as we are. I in know way meant he lied to us. __________________
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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy
I have known Mike for many years now... He would not knowingly mislead anyone... I'm sure he was relaying the information he had at hand... JMHO. Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjimzlll That's what I figured. I'm sure he's just as upset as we are. I in know way meant he lied to us. A lot of the speculation will finally be laid to rest when Michael and or Jim chime in with an official comment. __________________
Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #223 Today, 09:55 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676
Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy
I have known Mike for many years now... He would not knowingly mislead anyone... I'm sure he was relaying the information he had at hand... JMHO. I have to agree with that analogy. I don't think that Michael would knowingly mislead anyone. __________________
Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #224 Today, 10:02 PM
Evil Empire
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Powhatan Virginia Posts: 101 Real Name: Scott
Senior Member Senior Geek
So does this mean no more swiss made SAS watches ,I do know I saved a lot of money this weekend I can buy watches made in China at walmart a lot cheaper.Well it was just a matter of time for them to mess up the reserve line.Im sure they are good watches but I dont like being lied too,I planned on buying 4 watches this weekend bought 1 not an invicta Evil Empire View Public Profile Send a private message to Evil Empire Find all posts by Evil Empire Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts #225 Today, 10:03 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 11,964 Real Name: Charlie
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback Well . . . when you consider that I have a wireless keyboard with integrated mouse that rests in my lap while reclining in my Lazy Boy with the monitor situated about 24 inches in front and 12 inches to the right, so as not to interfere with my line of sight to my big screen TV, and that no strangers ever wonder through my living room. That's good Brad, coz they may seriously misconstrue what that moving hand is doing in your lap. __________________
The Celebration's Coming.............. It's Back To Back Time Again Baby!!!
J L P R
Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek
Originally Posted by Evil Empire So does this mean no more swiss made SAS watches ,I do know I saved a lot of money this weekend I can buy watches made in China at walmart a lot cheaper.Well it was just a matter of time for them to mess up the reserve line.Im sure they are good watches but I dont like being lied too,I planned on buying 4 watches this weekend bought 1 not an invicta
Quote:
To this point the discussion isn't surrounding Invicta watches marked "Swiss Made", just those marked "Swiss". Don't be too quick to paint this with an overly broad brush. __________________