Movement calibers explained (everyone should take a look at this) by Watch Geeks

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Movement calibers explained...(Everyone should take a look at this) This has been brought up, so I wanted to explain some things about watch company movement caliber numbers, I will use a few watches below to explain so everyone can understand. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Here we have the Invicta Reserve Excursion GMT power reserve, this watch has a ISA 8173I. Now some of you may wonder why is there a "I" in back of that movement caliber number, well the reason for that is, because Invicta has taken this movement which was a base ISA 8173 and modified it. After a watch company has modified a watch movement they take and give it their own caliber number and some use the first letter, two letters or the full name of their watch brand name before their caliber number. In this case Invicta used the first letter of their brand name, which is why you have the "I" behind the caliber number, and that is how this movement becomes the 8173I.

Some more examples below.

Maurice Lacroix Pontos Chronographe Movement: ML112 caliber (Base Val7750) Again the ML112 is because they have modified the base which is the Val7750.

Oris Regulateur â&#x20AC;&#x153;Der Meistertaucher Movement: Oris 649 (Base) ETA 2836-2 Again another movement modified by the watch company which is why you see Oris 649.

Now keep in mind, there are some companies who make their own movements and those will also have their own name and caliber number. __________________

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Horology (The art of measuring time) (Watchgeeks in house Watchmaker) (Automatic & Mechanical Chronograph specialist) Last edited by Mr Horology; 01-01-2010 at 03:53 PM.

#2 08-31-2009, 06:48 PM Genezilla Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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Mehdi, as always, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us mere mortals. Genezilla Send a private message to Genezilla Find all posts by Genezilla Add Genezilla to Your Contacts #3 08-31-2009, 06:51 PM

tkromer Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Excellent writeup Mehdi, thanks! tkromer Send a private message to tkromer Send email to tkromer Find all posts by tkromer Add tkromer to Your Contacts #4 08-31-2009, 07:02 PM

jb182 Senior Member Super Geek

Thank you, very helpful. jb182 Send a private message to jb182 Find all posts by jb182 Add jb182 to Your Contacts #5 08-31-2009, 07:19 PM

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Thanks all, Took me awhile to put together...Lol..Just kidding. It only took me a few minutes since i type so fast... __________________

Watchmaker - Jewelry maker

Horology (The art of measuring time) (Watchgeeks in house Watchmaker) (Automatic & Mechanical Chronograph specialist) Mr Horology Send a private message to Mr Horology Send email to Mr Horology Visit Mr Horology's homepage! Find all posts by Mr Horology Add Mr Horology to Your Contacts #6 08-31-2009, 07:21 PM

Joe Tex Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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Thanks for the info Mehdi...I learned something again! Peace N Love Joe Tex Send a private message to Joe Tex Send email to Joe Tex Find all posts by Joe Tex Add Joe Tex to Your Contacts #7 08-31-2009, 07:26 PM doublel Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Thanks for the education. Always appreciated! __________________ Larry

Live Long and Prosper doublel Send a private message to doublel Send email to doublel Find all posts by doublel Add doublel to Your Contacts #8 08-31-2009, 07:27 PM

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JFM Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Thanks Mehdi. The more info the better. JFM Send a private message to JFM Send email to JFM Find all posts by JFM Add JFM to Your Contacts #9 08-31-2009, 07:29 PM

TymeKeepr1 Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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Thanks for passing on the knowledge Medhi. I've been trying (and want) to learn movemets, badly. Thanks my friend. TymeKeepr1 Send a private message to TymeKeepr1 Send email to TymeKeepr1 Find all posts by TymeKeepr1 Add TymeKeepr1 to Your Contacts

#10 08-31-2009, 07:32 PM

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by TymeKeepr1 Thanks for passing on the knowledge Medhi. I've been trying (and want) to learn movemets, badly. Thanks my friend. Whatever you want to know just ask __________________

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producer4u Member Member Geek

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Thank you for letting me learn a little more each day, I am so BLESSED to be part of this forum, and have some great people that share the knowledge in timepieces.. PEACE

producer4u Send a private message to producer4u Send email to producer4u Find all posts by producer4u Add producer4u to Your Contacts #12 08-31-2009, 07:34 PM VWR32 Senior Member Senior Geek

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Thanks for the write-up, its great to learn something new about these watches we buy, thanks...Rick VWR32 Send a private message to VWR32 Find all posts by VWR32 Add VWR32 to Your Contacts #13 08-31-2009, 07:39 PM

Bear23 Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Very interesting thanks for sharing this info __________________

"I don't even wanna put my finger on it, it might get infected" Bear23 Send a private message to Bear23 Find all posts by Bear23 Add Bear23 to Your Contacts #14 08-31-2009, 08:22 PM ddavidsonmd Senior Member Super Geek

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Thanks Mehdi. But from what I can see, there is no way of knowing what is the base movement for any modified movement. Thanks again for putting this together.. __________________ Time is the fire in which we burn. ~Delmore Schwartz Michael.

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Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by ddavidsonmd Thanks Mehdi. But from what I can see, there is no way of knowing what is the base movement for any modified movement. Thanks again for putting this together..

Well for some models you can tell, but others can be harder. __________________

Watchmaker - Jewelry maker

Horology (The art of measuring time) (Watchgeeks in house Watchmaker) (Automatic & Mechanical Chronograph specialist) Mr Horology Send a private message to Mr Horology

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timely1 Senior Member Super Geek

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Just wondering....is the movement of the new Android Revolver a .44 Magnum? __________________

timely1 Send a private message to timely1 Find all posts by timely1 Add timely1 to Your Contacts #17 08-31-2009, 09:54 PM

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Quote: Originally Posted by timely1 Just wondering....is the movement of the new Android Revolver a .44 Magnum? Lol, that could be the caliber! __________________

Watchmaker - Jewelry maker

Arclight56 Senior Member Super Geek

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Thank you for the information. __________________ ___________________________ Time is the fire in which we burn Arclight56 Send a private message to Arclight56 Find all posts by Arclight56 Add Arclight56 to Your Contacts #19 08-31-2009, 11:45 PM Watchguru58 Banned Super Geek

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Once again. Thanks Mehdi. I think you teach me something new every day. Today I think I learned 2 new things from you. Watchguru58 Find all posts by Watchguru58 Add Watchguru58 to Your Contacts #20 09-08-2009, 02:20 AM badman80 Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Great Info. Keep more posts like these coming. __________________

badman80 Send a private message to badman80 Find all posts by badman80 Add badman80 to Your Contacts #21 09-08-2009, 02:40 AM jericho Senior Member True WatchGeek

thanx for the info learned something new today jericho Send a private message to jericho Find all posts by jericho Add jericho to Your Contacts #22 09-08-2009, 02:50 AM

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RDG Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Wow Mehdi! that's why you're a VIP you're a great contribution to WG always giving us all this

great information. What would we do without you... __________________

RDG Send a private message to RDG Find all posts by RDG Add RDG to Your Contacts #23 09-28-2009, 09:47 PM spaceman Junior Member New Geek

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I'm new to collecting and I thank you on the info that I'm learning keep up the good work between you and Jim skelton I am really in joying this hobby. spaceman Send a private message to spaceman Send email to spaceman Find all posts by spaceman Add spaceman to Your Contacts #24 10-08-2009, 03:11 PM gigfy Senior Member Senior Geek

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Thanks for the information. I have a question to all of the CR8205 owners .. does this movement hack? If it does, I would bet that it is a Chinese DG28 movement. I saw a Croton Sub with CR8315 movement being sold that had a display back and the movement was not a Miyota. I read some things on the net describing it as the 'hacking' Miyota, but I wasn't convinced. LSS, I bought the watch and the link below has the pictures to prove it is not a Miyota. David M. also stated (via Jim) that the movement "has a look of the Miyota but it is not a Miyota". http://www.watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=9349 I wasn't able to find much info on the CR8205 but I did notice that ShopNBC lists Croton watches with Miyota 8205 movements and Japanese 8205 movements. A subtle difference that had previously slipped underneath my radar. Japanese 8205 http://www.shopnbc.com/Croton_Men_s_...free_text=8205 Miyota 8205 http://www.shopnbc.com/Croton_Men_s_...free_text=8205

I have a suspicion that these two movements are not the same. I would love to see some pictures of the Croton CR8205 / Japanese 8205 movement. If anyone has this calibre, please post some pictures!!

Thanks, gigfy

EDIT: Notice how "Japanese" is used to describe the CR8315. http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?FamilyID=J173659 gigfy Send a private message to gigfy Find all posts by gigfy Add gigfy to Your Contacts #25 10-08-2009, 10:15 PM

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by gigfy Thanks for the information. I have a question to all of the CR8205 owners .. does this movement hack? If it does, I would bet that it is a Chinese DG28 movement. I saw a Croton Sub with CR8315 movement being sold that had a display back and the movement was not a Miyota. I read some things on the net describing it as the 'hacking' Miyota, but I wasn't convinced. LSS, I bought the watch and the link below has the pictures to prove it is not a Miyota. David M. also stated (via Jim) that the movement "has a look of the Miyota but it is not a Miyota". http://www.watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=9349 I wasn't able to find much info on the CR8205 but I did notice that ShopNBC lists Croton watches with Miyota 8205 movements and Japanese 8205 movements. A subtle difference that had previously slipped underneath my radar. Japanese 8205

http://www.shopnbc.com/Croton_Men_s_...free_text=8205 Miyota 8205 http://www.shopnbc.com/Croton_Men_s_...free_text=8205

I have a suspicion that these two movements are not the same. I would love to see some pictures of the Croton CR8205 / Japanese 8205 movement. If anyone has this calibre, please post some pictures!! Thanks, gigfy

EDIT: Notice how "Japanese" is used to describe the CR8315. http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?FamilyID=J173659

If i am not mistaken, I believe the CR8205 does hack and it was labeled as being a modified Miyota 8205 which is why they have CR in front. __________________

Watchmaker - Jewelry maker

Horology (The art of measuring time) (Watchgeeks in house Watchmaker) (Automatic & Mechanical Chronograph specialist) 0-08-2009, 10:44 PM gigfy Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote: Originally Posted by Mrwatch921 If i am not mistaken, I believe the CR8205 does hack and it was

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 254

labeled as being a modified Miyota 8205 which is why they have CR in front. It am not trying to be argumentative, but it is not a Miyota, it is a DG. There is no such thing as a "hacking Miyota" 8205 or 8215. I think the only Miyota that hacks is the new 9015 (28,800bph, 24jewels) that will compete with the ETA 2892. I would be willing to make a wager that underneath the balance, we will find the DG logo, just like I found it on the CR8315.

Dixmont Website Not the same movement as the CR8205 (DG28) but prominently displays the logo on the dial.

Cheers, gigfy gigfy Send a private message to gigfy Find all posts by gigfy Add gigfy to Your Contacts #27 10-08-2009, 10:56 PM

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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All i am going by is what Croton said, and they said they modified the Miyota 8205 to make it hack. Without seeing it first hand i could not tell you if that true or not.

(By the way, you can modify a non-hacking movement to make it hacking) __________________

Watchmaker - Jewelry maker

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Quote: Originally Posted by Mrwatch921 If i am not mistaken, I believe the CR8205 does hack and it was labeled as being a modified Miyota 8205 which is why they have CR in front. I think Gigfy's point is that the design of the top plate clearly identifies this as a known Chinese movement based on the design of Miyota, but with no connection to Citizen Miyota and no

interchangeable parts. The crown-and-circle logo under the movement further identifies the origins as being the Dixmont Guangzhou Watch Company, a known manufacturer of this design of movement. The hack function is standard on these DG movements as well as the identical NN movement from Nanning Watch Factory. I have to agree with Gigfy that the CR8205 is an off-the-shelf Chinese movement with hack function, rather than a modified Miyota. Dixmont Guangzhou sell some of these movements through PTS Resources who supply movements to several major brands, including Stuhrling Original. Possibly that is where eCroton source them also? Chascomm Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #29 10-08-2009, 11:06 PM

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Ok guys, all i am going by is what i heard Croton say, I am not at all saying you guys are wrong. Now i would like to keep this thread on topic from here on please, feel free to start a new thread to further discuss this matter.

Thank you. __________________

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What is the cost of the ISA 8173?

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Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

Quote: Originally Posted by Invicta Proud What is the cost of the ISA 8173?

Thanks! Invicta Proud Not sure, but i would guess under $45. __________________

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mshannon4 Senior Member Super Geek

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Thanks Mehdi, That sheds some light on the subject. I was wondering where they got all the different movement numbers when I knew they weren't all making there own. __________________

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mshannon4 Send a private message to mshannon4 Send email to mshannon4 Find all posts by mshannon4 Add mshannon4 to Your Contacts #33 11-25-2009, 06:48 PM DizabledVet Senior Member Senior Geek

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Hi, thank you for the info it really does staighten out some questions but I still would like to know what is the.. or better yet where is the SU tourbillion movement from and are all there watches scince 04' in house builds of swiss movements or japanese or what???? DIZ... I just do not know and would like too. Thanks again!!! DizabledVet Send a private message to DizabledVet Find all posts by DizabledVet

Add DizabledVet to Your Contacts #34 11-25-2009, 06:53 PM

Mr Horology WatchGeeks VIP True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by DizabledVet Hi, thank you for the info it really does staighten out some questions but I still would like to know what is the.. or better yet where is the SU tourbillion movement from and are all there watches scince 04' in house builds of swiss movements or japanese or what???? DIZ... I just do not know and would like too. Thanks again!!! Well in house movements can be Swiss made, Japanese, German, etc etc, no matter the year. Which Tourbillon are you speaking on? __________________

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Add Mr Horology to Your Contacts #35 11-25-2009, 07:00 PM DizabledVet Senior Member Senior Geek

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The one that sold out in 2 mins yesterday! DIZ... DizabledVet Send a private message to DizabledVet Find all posts by DizabledVet Add DizabledVet to Your Contacts #36 11-25-2009, 07:25 PM

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Quote: Originally Posted by DizabledVet The one that sold out in 2 mins yesterday! DIZ... That and all other Automatic and Mechanical S-O timepieces are Chinese made movements. __________________

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Thank You H.T. So it sounds just like aircraft, when they modify an aircraft they usually put a letter following the original number of the first model. chitown Send a private message to chitown Send email to chitown Find all posts by chitown Add chitown to Your Contacts #38 11-25-2009, 10:12 PM

chronoman56 Senior Member Veteran Geek

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remember! a day without sunshine........is night! chronoman56 Send a private message to chronoman56 Send email to chronoman56 Find all posts by chronoman56 Add chronoman56 to Your Contacts #39 11-26-2009, 06:33 AM Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek

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Quote: Originally Posted by DizabledVet Hi, thank you for the info it really does staighten out some questions but I still would like to know what is the.. or better yet where is the SU tourbillion movement from and are all there watches scince 04' in house builds of swiss movements or japanese or what???? DIZ... I just do not know and would like too. Thanks again!!! The Stuhrling ST-93311 tourbillon was sourced from PTS Resources, Hong Kong. It can be found on their on-line catalogue.

It has been in production for about a year. As PTS do not do any manufacturing, it must have been made by one of their major partners. Hangzhou Watch Company seems most likely as they have prior experience with tourbillon design and manufacture.

Although Stuhrling are selecting the premium grades of movements when buying Chinese, they do not appear to do any in-house modification, or order exclusive variants from the manufacturer, so far as I can tell anyway. Not that they need to when they have the run of PTS's catalogue. The question is probably best put to Larry to be sure. Chascomm Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #40 11-26-2009, 07:31 AM mattcantwin Senior Member Super Geek

MCW thanks!

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mattcantwin

#41 11-26-2009, 09:37 PM DizabledVet Senior Member Senior Geek

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DizabledVet... Thanks to all for this...info, I am really glad I can just ask an honost question and get an honest answer. I hope that these type of threads continue and we all can help to edjumacate each other... Anyone need to understand measurement and signatures intelligence or how to kill scud missiles with one hand.... DizabledVet...