New movement invictas marked swiss by Watch Geeks

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DIAMANTE Senior Member Super Geek New Movement Invictas marked Swiss

Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss? This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example. There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked Swiss. My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made. I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal. I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c)

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DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #2 Yesterday, 07:42 PM

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Kahuna Cowboy

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,230 Real Name: Jeff

Senior Member Super Geek

I have wondered the same thing. If true it is pretty shady from my point of view. Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #3 Yesterday, 07:43 PM

Evil Empire

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Powhatan Virginia Posts: 96 Real Name: Scott

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yes we beat this subject to death earlier LOL Evil Empire View Public Profile Send a private message to Evil Empire Find all posts by Evil Empire Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts #4 Yesterday, 10:00 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 117 Real Name: Bob Stokes

rjaybass Senior Member Senior Geek

Evidently there are Russian Divers on Amazon that are not Swiss Made...

__________________ [SIGPIC] rjaybass View Public Profile Send a private message to rjaybass Send email to rjaybass Find all posts by rjaybass Add rjaybass to Your Contacts #5 Yesterday, 10:06 PM

samuelrz

Join Date: May 2009 Location: N. California Posts: 1,293 Real Name: Sam

Senior Member Super Geek

Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the designer. If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more complications on them and some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position. Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let this thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions. __________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz View Public Profile Send a private message to samuelrz Send email to samuelrz Find all posts by samuelrz Add samuelrz to Your Contacts #6 Yesterday, 10:14 PM

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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made. Sorry, that wouldn't be allowed under U.S. Customs country of origin labeling regulations. If you read the following excerpts from the regs. you will note that the country of origin of the movement must should appear on the dial or case back. A company subject to U.S. Customs regs, could not put Swiss on the dial when in fact the movement was made in Asia. U.S. Customs Regulations, 19 CFR Part 177 Chapter 91, Additional U.S. Note 4, Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States, sets forth special marking requirements for watches and clocks: (a) Watch movements shall be marked on one or more of the bridges or top plates to show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture, (ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser, and (iii) in words, the number of jewels, if any, serving a mechanical purpose as frictional bearings. (c) Watch cases shall be marked on the inside or outside of the back to show: (i) the name of the country of manufacture, and (ii) the name of the manufacturer or purchaser. The above movements and cases must be conspicuously and indelibly marked by cutting, die-sinking, engraving, stamping (including by means of indelible ink), or mold-marking. Movements with opto-electronic display only and cases designed for use therewith, whether entered as separate articles or as components of assembled watches or clocks, are excepted from these special marking requirements. Watches and clocks are also subject to the normal country of origin marking requirements of 19 U.S.C. 1304, and under these requirements, the movementâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s country of origin should appear conspicuously and legibly on the dial face or on the outside of the back. In addition, watchbands should be marked with the country of manufacture of the band, unless the watchband is attached in the country where the watch was produced. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need! Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #7 Yesterday, 10:14 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tempe, suburb of Phoenix Posts: 17,528

wave3214 Senior Member True WatchGeek

this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend __________________

wave3214 View Public Profile Send a private message to wave3214

Find all posts by wave3214 Add wave3214 to Your Contacts #8 Yesterday, 10:18 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz Swiss and Swiss Made mean the exact same thing. Sometimes the word Swiss appears on the case back too. The vendor may even choose to not put it on there at all, but it is a selling point so they do. The wording and location are all at the discretion of the designer. If there is room on the dial, etc. Ronda 5040 movements tend to have more complications on them. Some Russian Divers even have them at the 3 O'clock position. Please do a search of the forum on the subject of "Swiss vs. Swiss Made" and let's let this thread die before jumping to all sort of wild conclusions. Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing. In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their trademark rights. Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the non-member company's policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the movement used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a minimum, you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #9 Yesterday, 10:20 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214 this has been discussed many many times in the past. search is your friend Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a result, I will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss Made until everyone has seen it . . . __________________

Kahuna Cowboy

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,230 Real Name: Jeff

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback Sorry Sam, Swiss and Swiss Made as used in the U.S. do not mean the same thing. In the U.S., Swiss Made is controlled through the Swiss Federation's USPTO registered trademark, and Federation member or not, their rules must be followed under their trademark rights. Swiss at the 6 position when used by a non-federation member in the U.S. does not necessarily mean the same as Swiss Made. It's entirely up to the nonmember company's policy, so long as it complies with U.S. Customs regulations that require the movement used in the watch to be from the country of origin placed on the dial. So at a minimum, you know that a watch so labeled has a Swiss movement. Flyback, If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport? The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both. We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation? Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #11 Yesterday, 10:30 PM

Kahuna Cowboy Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin Texas..... Y'all Posts: 2,230 Real Name: Jeff

Wait a minute, I got it now. Send a Rhonda movement to the factories in the orient for build, ship back to Switzerland for sale to watch companies. That would do it right Brad? Kahuna Cowboy View Public Profile Send a private message to Kahuna Cowboy Send email to Kahuna Cowboy Find all posts by Kahuna Cowboy Add Kahuna Cowboy to Your Contacts #12 Yesterday, 10:33 PM

50mm&up

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From what i understand swiss and swiss made are 1 in the same. There is a swiss parts movt. 5040d but it would say that on the watch somewhere. __________________

"We remember........." 50mm&up View Public Profile Send a private message to 50mm&up Send email to 50mm&up Find all posts by 50mm&up Add 50mm&up to Your Contacts #13 Yesterday, 10:34 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

samuelrz Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: May 2009 Location: N. California Posts: 1,293 Real Name: Sam

We need a Swiss Forum. __________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

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dacathey Senior Member Super Geek

Swiss made is the trademarked phrase. Swiss is not except for Federation members of which Invicta is not a member. So if they put a swiss parts movement in a watch labeled "swiss made" then customs would pull them and enforce the trademark. If it says swiss then nothing happens. __________________

dacathey View Public Profile Send a private message to dacathey

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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz We need a Swiss Forum. It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no matter how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to. __________________

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 677

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelrz We need a Swiss Forum. Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum? A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up. Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #18 Yesterday, 10:43 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum? A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up. First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But if I was asked to, I'd be happy to do so. __________________

samuelrz

Join Date: May 2009 Location: N. California Posts: 1,293 Real Name: Sam

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not that complicated. I've manged intellectual property both nationally and internationally for a number of companies since the mid '80s. The problem here, no matter how many times something is stated, people only remember what they want to. Another problem is that companies come out with marketing terms meant to confuse the buyer like "Swiss Parts Movement". Everyone wants to be associated with the Swiss. It happens in many industries too. I wonder what would happen if Ford used the Japanese word for Ford on their vehicles? Would you assume it was better quality because it was Japanese? Probably. __________________ SAM - http://www.giltman.com/invite/samuelrz

samuelrz View Public Profile Send a private message to samuelrz Send email to samuelrz Find all posts by samuelrz Add samuelrz to Your Contacts #20 Yesterday, 10:56 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 117 Real Name: Bob Stokes

rjaybass Senior Member Senior Geek

Their are new members joining daily I'm sure so I think some folks may not be so adept at negotiating this site for a while. Much of what I do here is done on my little iPhone screen on the fly. I'm very busy as most people are nowadays but even if it's only a minute or two to check in here I do it because I just love the whole "Invicta scene". __________________ [SIGPIC] rjaybass View Public Profile Send a private message to rjaybass Send email to rjaybass Find all posts by rjaybass Add rjaybass to Your Contacts #21 Yesterday, 10:59 PM

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Originally Posted by rjaybass . . . Much of what I do here is done on my little iPhone screen on the fly. . . Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor! __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need! Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #22 Yesterday, 11:08 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 677

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Originally Posted by rjaybass . . . Much of what I do here is done on my little iPhone screen on the fly. . . Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback Thank the Lord for my 22" monitor! I bet that looks funny when you hold it up to your head. Do people stare at you? Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #23 Yesterday, 11:17 PM Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 17,317 Real Name: Brad

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Originally Posted by Time Bandit I bet that looks funny when you hold it up to your head. Do people stare at you? Well . . . when you consider that I have a wireless keyboard with integrated mouse that rests in my lap while reclining in my Lazy Boy with the monitor situated about 24 inches in front and 12 inches to the right, so as not to interfere with my line of sight to my big screen TV, and that no strangers ever wonder through my living room. The answer is, no one ever stares at me regarding my internet access. However, when I'm at work or out in public wearing my cool watches, people do tend to notice. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need! Flyback View Public Profile Send a private message to Flyback Find all posts by Flyback Add Flyback to Your Contacts #24 Today, 12:08 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,606 Real Name: Jim

bigjimzlll Senior Member Super Geek

So Swiss and Swiss Made mean the same thing???? OK Ok...just kidding. There only seems to be a handfull of companies that play it dead straight. Android and NFW come to mind. My advice is don't get caught up in the whole Swiss Made thing. The Swiss guidelines are a joke...watch companies don't really have any reason to follow them...and most of all, if a unscrutiable company wanted too...they could bold face lie and nothing would happen. __________________

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unclefixit

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,434 Real Name: Jay

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss? This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example. There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked Swiss. My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made. I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal. I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D Originally Posted by RenatoDiamond Very nice, this is one of the swiss movement (not swiss made) RD's. Sorry Gene that would be incorrect. The words "Swiss" or "Swiss Made", usually at the 6 o'clock position on the dail, indicate a watch built meeting the guidelines of the Swiss Federation of Horology. The words "Swiss Movement" (in the same font) indicate only a "Swiss built movement" that has been encased and assymbled into a completed watch, in a non-Swiss factory. The words "Swiss movt." (note abbreviation) indicate a non-Swiss assymbled movement and of course watch.

That's about as simple as I can put it. Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna Cowboy Flyback, If customs requires the dial to be marked with the country of orgin, how did Invicta get away with the OTV carbon fiber RD's, and the Sea Spider Sport? The Sea Spider Sport was marked "Swiss," the RD "Swiss Movt" on the dial. The casebacks were labeled "Swiss Parts Movt" on both. We all know that "Swiss Parts Movt" are from the Orient in origin. So wouldn't the casebacks and dials need to be marked as such for importation? Quote: Originally Posted by 50mm&up I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me. You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem? Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport. It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made). This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until after the watches were finished and ready for sale. That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility by any means. What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch. Search is your friend... Last edited by unclefixit; Today at 02:03 AM. Reason: more info added

bigjimzlll

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redding,CA Posts: 1,606 Real Name: Jim

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

Quote: Originally Posted by 50mm&up

I got a Sea Spider from InvictaShark that has a 5040D Ronda asian parts movt. It says swiss at 6:00. lol. Anybody's guess is as good as mine and it doesn't really matter to me. You're getting a sweet RD for $90, whats the problem? Rick I know the watch your talking about, the Sea Spider Sport. It's the one that caused a big to-doo here because it was sold with an incorrectly labeled dail ("Swiss" meaning Swiss Made). This mistake (by the dail manufacturer) during manufacturing wasn't caught until after the watches were finished and ready for sale. That's why your watch is labeled as it is...doesn't mean your watch is poor in quaility by any means. What it does mean is that you saved a hell of alot of money and got a great watch.

That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made. Sure it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was Invicta sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making "Mistakes" __________________

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unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,434 Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll That statement is my whole point. A watched marked Swiss, that is not Swiss Made. Sure it maybe a mistake, but where is the policing? How much was the fine? Was Invicta sanctioned? or did nothing happen...as in...who cares...keep making "Mistakes" This one case was unique in that the watches had been produced, shipped to the U.S., and sent to the customer (SNBC in this case) before anything was noticed. (This may speak to the lack of supervision during manufacture that seems to haunt Invicta) It was noticed by sneak peekers and early buyers, than braught to forum members attention in many many threads. There was no fine to be given as Invicta is not a member of the Swiss Federation of Horology. unclefixit View Public Profile Send a private message to unclefixit Find all posts by unclefixit Add unclefixit to Your Contacts #28 Today, 07:02 AM Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kingston, NY Posts: 343 Real Name: Michael C.

mkcon Senior Member Senior Geek

Akula's are Reserve Watches - unless Invicta is changing their definition of Reserve the watch has to be Swiss Made - meaning Swiss movment. Why they changed the label to Swiss only - I have no clue but you have to assume it is Swiss Made. __________________ "The definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome." - Freud. mkcon View Public Profile Send a private message to mkcon Send email to mkcon Find all posts by mkcon Add mkcon to Your Contacts #29

Today, 07:07 AM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 2,411 Real Name: Matt

watchdude1 WatchGeeks Moderator Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback Steve, it seems that the search tool isn't going to be used in this respect, and as a result, I will continue to post the fact of the matter surrounding Swiss and Swiss Made until everyone has seen it . . . May take you another 17,000 posts just on this topic though, Brad...LOL. __________________ "God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy." -Billy Currington watchdude1 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchdude1 Find all posts by watchdude1 Add watchdude1 to Your Contacts #30 Today, 07:13 AM

Gencoupe10

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Staten Island, New York Posts: 227 Real Name: Eddie B.

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Quote:

My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made. I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal. I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D I think Ronda has factories in Japan ..... but i dont want to get Jim and Mike mad if i am wrong....... Gencoupe10 View Public Profile Send a private message to Gencoupe10 Send email to Gencoupe10 Find all posts by Gencoupe10 Add Gencoupe10 to Your Contacts #31 Today, 07:14 AM

fnps90

Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Efland,NC Posts: 858 Real Name: Keith

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Well the strange one for me was the Scuba's. The one on the bracelet say's swiss movement on dial and case back. The ones on rubber which I bought say's swiss on dial and caseback. Both are Rhonda 5040d. Jim said one time swiss means swiss made. Me, dont really matter cause I buy the watches I like. __________________

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MREXE Senior Member Veteran Geek

this is all very redundant. Hey! dont they make Swiss cheese in the USA???? licensing infringement?????? lol, google "swiss watch law"..........it's even more diluted......... MREXE View Public Profile Send a private message to MREXE Find all posts by MREXE Add MREXE to Your Contacts #33 Today, 07:28 AM Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Posts: 17,263 Real Name: Gene

RenatoDiamond Senior Member True WatchGeek

Some of these models are the F series you may have seen on Amazon.com, with swiss parts movements. __________________

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FloridaGary

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 414 Real Name: Gary

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIAMANTE Has anyone noticed that some Invicta models that previously used the ETA G10 and were marked Swiss Made are now using the Ronda 5040d and are now labled simply Swiss? This includes some Reserve models as well - Akula for example. There was some discussion about this when the Amazon exlcusive models appeared, particularly the Venom. It was hundreds less used the Ronda 5040d and was marked Swiss. My theory is that these models have the Asian version of the Ronda 5040d and therefore cannot be labled Swiss Made. I asked JSkelton about this (when the Amazon Venome was being discussed) and he said he didn't know but he would ask Eyal. I don't think the quality has suffered and the Ronda 5040d (even the Asian made version) has nicer features than the ETA G10. I just want to know if my theory is correct. D Great observation. I noticed the same thing. I think the first I noticed was on the SAS just released in new color configurations. I expected the G-10, but noticed the Ronda movement instead. __________________ Too many watches, not enough time. Rolex, Omega, Chase Durer, Poljot, Seiko, Orient, Invicta, Vostok Europe FloridaGary View Public Profile Send a private message to FloridaGary Send email to FloridaGary Find all posts by FloridaGary Add FloridaGary to Your Contacts #35 Today, 08:43 AM

Evil Empire

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Not to repeat myself. But I will any way. I understand why Invicta is doing this to keep prices down and I am sure they are good watches even though not Swiss made. I wish they would just be upfront about where the watch and movement are made. We are not stupid. Mike says yes..Jim says No..bla bla. Sector is a swiss company any watch that I have from Sector with a non swiss movement does not say swiss any where on the watch back or front. Evil Empire View Public Profile Send a private message to Evil Empire Find all posts by Evil Empire Add Evil Empire to Your Contacts #36 Today, 08:46 AM Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: bronx,newyork Posts: 1,003 Real Name: mark

kdog45 Senior Member Super Geek

thanks for the headz up. __________________

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DIAMANTE

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,769

Senior Member Super Geek

So why the change to Swiss only on the dials of the Akula, Venom, S1 Touring, etc....? The change coincides with the change in movement - a movement that could be made in Asia. I realize their is a lot of secrecy in the watch industry and if it comes out that in fact these newer versions are actually using the Asian made Ronda 5040d then Invicta's credibility is going to take a massive hit? Invicta reps are on the record as saying when Invicta uses Swiss they are meeting the guidelines to use Swiss Made which means the movement must be Swiss Made. (although there are recent examples of this not being the case - and it was a "mistake" albeit one with no consequences.) What we are talking about here is Reserve pieces. All it is going to take is for someone to pop the case back and we will know for sure. I don't own one of these models but I'm tempted to buy one just take a look. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #38 Today, 10:18 AM

WileySG

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brookfield, CT Posts: 39 Real Name: Bob Walker

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I find this whole "SWISS" / "SWISS MADE" / "SWISS MOVEMENT" issues very interesting! Geeks spend a lot of time covering this ground with NO SOLID answer from Invicta. I'm convinced that some watches are made in Switzerland. I'm also convinced that some watches are made in the Far East (with ??? parts). I believe Invicta makes a marketing point of "SWISS" (in any fashion). Hey for me...as long as the friggin hands dont fall off and it functions properly...I'm good! The styling of Invicta timepieces is the draw for me, not the "SWISS" logo! That's just my opinion...I could be wrong! __________________

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Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Flyback, Can you put together a Sticky in the General Swiss Watch Forum? A comprehensive post, that would be used to point to, every time this comes up. Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback First of all, I'm just a regular member like you, so I can't put together a sticky. But if I was asked to, I'd be happy to do so. I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post, It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that. Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word "SWISS" on the dial of a watch. Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said Guidelines. If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say, "This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic. Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #40 Today, 10:36 AM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 2,411 Real Name: Matt

watchdude1 WatchGeeks Moderator Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit I'm asking, I'm sure if you made a comprehensive post, It would become a Sticky, and member's would suggest just that. Even as late as this morning, there is conflicting information regarding the word "SWISS" on the dial of a watch.

Some folks believe that "SWISS" without the word "MADE" means that it is a Swiss Made watch, but in reality it only has a Swiss Movement, as it pertains to the Swiss Federation Guidelines, and the Members of the Swiss Federation abiding by said Guidelines. If there was a "goto, tellall, sticky" we could put this to rest, like Regis would say, "This is the Final Answer" in relation to this topic. The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if company X (like Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold up as being Swiss Made. Frankly, Michael's post should also be a sticky as to Invicta's company policy and should be controlling until such time as anyone can prove that Invicta using "Swiss" at the 6 does NOT mean "Swiss Made." There are final answers as to what the law says, but there is also "final answers" in terms of what the actual reality is. It serves no purpose to use the regs and guidelines to denounce a company that is not part of the Swiss federation without the corresponding proof that they are bending those guidelines to their advantage. __________________ "God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy." -Billy Currington watchdude1 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchdude1 Find all posts by watchdude1 Add watchdude1 to Your Contacts #41 Today, 10:38 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,286 Real Name: Paul

heavyjumbo Senior Member Super Geek

If I want a Swiss Made watch from Invicta then I will buy only a watch that says Swiss Made. Why would Invicta label a watch "Swiss" if it is Swiss Made especially after the same dial (i.e. Russian Diver, SAS and SAIII, etc.) for a long period already was labeled "Swiss Made". To me, it means that Invicta likely changed the piece from Swiss Made to only Swiss parts. No other logical explanation. Since Invicta is not a part of the Swiss Federation (as posted by others whom I respect tremendously) then dont assume its Swiss Made just because it says Swiss. Again, why would Invicta go through the trouble of chaning the dials from Swiss Made to Swiss (on the same models) if ithe model remained Swiss Made??? Answer - they would not unless it was no longer Swiss Made. __________________

Paul G. Boca Raton, FL heavyjumbo View Public Profile Send a private message to heavyjumbo Find all posts by heavyjumbo Add heavyjumbo to Your Contacts #42 Today, 10:39 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 677

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchdude1 The thing is, "Swiss" at the 6 position may or may not mean "Swiss Made" depending upon if the company is part of the Swiss federation or not. Even if company X (like Invicta) is not a member, it does mean out of hand that the designation does not hold up as being Swiss Made. That was my entire point. SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything. No matter what company makes it. Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit

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tkromer Senior Member True WatchGeek

I think the real answer, the 5040 is an upgrade, regardless of country of origin. tkromer View Public Profile Send a private message to tkromer Send email to tkromer Find all posts by tkromer Add tkromer to Your Contacts #44 Today, 10:45 AM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Woodlands, TX Posts: 2,411 Real Name: Matt

watchdude1 WatchGeeks Moderator Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit That was my entire point. SWISS alone, doesn't mean anything. No matter what company makes it. No, I got where you are coming from. Well, it does mean something definitively if you a member of the Swiss federation as the only way members of the federation may use this is if, in fact, the piece is Swiss made. However when Michael states that "Swiss" at the 6 position means the same thing as Swiss Made and that Invicta is following those guidelines set forth by the Swiss federation, I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful... __________________ "God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy." -Billy Currington

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Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchdude1 I just wish people would either say they don't believe him or provide evidence he is not being truthful... I don't believe it. See Heavy Jumbo's post above