MARCH 2015 Number 78
Officers & Committee for 2014 – 2015 Chair
Treasurer
Committee Members
Wickham, Hampshire 01329 833 027 lmbarnett@btinernet.com
Aberlour, Moray 01340 810 844 Julie@elchies.co.uk
01233 770 397 alastair@boydwiss.com
Linda Barnett (Term ends: 2017)
Julie Comins (Term ends: 2016)
Vice Chair
Newsletter Editor
Rawcliffe, East Riding of Yorkshire 01405 831061 sarah.brocklebank@hotmail.co.uk
Shedfield, Southampton 07951 366369 sandyhillsfarm@hotmail.co.uk
Sarah Brocklebank (Term ends: 2018)
Karen Pickett (Term ends: 2017)
Secretary
Web Editor
01787 227 777 bbgs.secretary@gmail.com
Woodbridge, Suffolk 01394 412096 or 07445 207669 website enquiries and sales adverts webeditor@britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
Marilyn Leggett (Term ends: 2017)
Membership, Registration & Transfers
Tiff Hall (Term ends: 2016) The Old Grange Farm, Mill Road, West Walton, Wisbech 01945 588 451 Tiff.Hall42@yahoo.co.uk
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Emma Aldous (Term ends: 2015)
Alastair Boyd (Term ends: 2016)
Anna Reed (Term ends: 2015) 01728 684048 matt@honeysucklecottage.info
Rob Grinnall (Term ends: 2018) 07899 994 466 rob.grinnall@btinternet.com Beckie Holmes (Term ends: 2015) beckieholmes1234@gmail.com
Jo Jenkins (Term ends: 2018)
01280 817 294 joanne.jenkins@beaverfast.com
Neither the Committee nor the Editor is responsible for the views or statements made by contributors, nor for the accuracy of advertisements. This newsletter is produced for March, June, September and December each year. Items for publication should reach the editor no later than the 15th of the previous month. www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
BBGS COMMITTEE REMIT 2015 - 2017 – OVERVIEW
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he committee remit for 2015 – 2017 is to provide a society which enables all its members to benefit from knowledge sharing, whether they own 2 goats or twohundred. By providing opportunities to learn about the Boer goat breed we will enable breeders to have a better understanding of the standards required, providing them with knowledge to assess their own goats. Most breeders will already be categorising stock into show or cull groups. Shows and training days will further empower breeders to decide which faults are acceptable to breed out through a selected breeding programme. During 2015 the BBGS is promoting Boer goats at shows with new displays and literature. We are advertising everyone’s goats through the competitions and we have already organised one knowledge sharing seminar in the North. As a new committee we wish to manage in a proper and organised manner, therefore we plan to hold some events this year with a more structured
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calendar being available for next year when we have had time to plan things thoroughly. During the last 2-3 years various events (detailed below) have been held to promote knowledge and we intend to build on these. • October 2012: Stephanus Malan gave a Boer Goat Talk and illustrated classification of goats to the SA system at Stoneleigh (Midlands) and at the AGM at Philip Hall’s Farm in (Gloucestershire). • May 2013: Junior Judging Weekend (East Anglia) • October 2013 AGM: Engel Kupers gave a talk on the Boer Goat (Yorkshire) • June 2014: 1st British Boer Goat Show was held at the Royal Three Counties Show (Midlands) • October 2014 AGM: Fred Homeyer gave a talk on Boer Goat (South) Our aim is to hold up to 4 knowledge sharing days a year in different parts of the www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
country utilising the knowledge of a range of experts thereby providing a balanced view of the breed. The society will also utilise the AGM to provide talks on a variety of aspects of Boer goat keeping
AIMS
• Improve understanding of the breed by knowledge sharing • Organize knowledge sharing days in various parts of the country • Organize shows and advertise the breed more widely • Organize demonstration stands at shows where there are no competitions • Form a working party of committee and society members to promote the sale of Boer goat meat.
Front Cover
Boer goats in spring, Rob Grinnal
Chairman’s Chat
Editor’s Comments
he BBGS have a great year ahead with 3 shows holding Boer Goat Classes. The Royal Welsh Spring, Royal Three Counties and Stafford County Show are all being very supportive, we just need the entries to make it worthwhile, so do join in, even if you have never shown before. Apart from the shows, we have stands at the Bath and West and Royal Norfolk Show. Volunteers to help man the stands are always welcome. If you are interested contact any of the committee to discuss. The forum on the website is no longer in use and has been replaced with an affiliation to UK Boer Goats on Facebook as a more popular route to discussion and knowledge sharing. We have now produced a set of Aims for the society which you will find printed in the magazine. As a society we always welcome constructive comments from members so please do take part in making this a great society going forward. Enjoy the springtime Linda
Hi All Due to production/printing issues this issue of the magazine was delayed. The committee has felt it necessary to investigate costs of production and quality of copy as a progression from previous years and whilst we may not be there just yet, we are hoping to get best value for member’s money whilst also improving the magazine itself. We started kidding late this year and have had days with does popping like corks. We have had a good split of males to females so far and the kids have been strong and healthy. We had a single male born who tipped the scales at a whisker over 6kg – ‘big Mandy’ never batted an eyelid at his arrival!! The goats are enjoying the good weather, long may it last. Karen
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p.s. If you have anything you would like in the magazine you can call or text me on 07951 366369 or email sandyhillsfarm@hotmail.co.uk www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
MEMBERSHIP
REMINDER MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTIONS ARE DUE 1ST APRIL
£25.00 BACS PAYMENT: Sort code: 20 99 40 Account number: 50218049 CHEQUES TO: Tiff Hall, The Old Grange Farm, Mill Road, West Walton, Wisbech PE14 7EU Please use your membership number and name as references
BOER GOAT AND GOAT HEALTH SEMINAR Wednesday 10th June 2015 With guest speakers
Dr Fred Homeyer (Texas) and
Ian Pritchard (Scottish Agricultural College) at
Pavilions of Harrogate Yorkshire Showground, Harrogate Tickets ÂŁ25 (members) / ÂŁ30 (non-members) To include lunch and refreshments For more information please contact: sarah.brocklebank@hotmail.co.uk / 07877 182 862 Kindly sponsored by Devenish Nutrition Ltd, ISJ Farming, Goat Nutrition Ltd and Denis Brinicombe
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www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
SHOWS 2015 ROYAL WELSH SPRING FESTIVAL 16th – 17th May 2015 BOER GOAT CLASSES Judge: Mr Gordon Webster
ROYAL THREE COUNTIES SHOW
12th – 14th June 2015 BOER GOAT CLASSES - CLASSES FOR ALL AGE GROUPS Judge: Dr. Fred C. Homeyer
STAFFORDSHIRE COUNTY SHOW
27th – 28th May 2015 **NEW FOR 2015** We are pleased to announce that Staffordshire County Show will be holding Classes for Boer Goats. Judge: Celia Burnett-Smith If you are interested in entering, please contact the show office on 01785 258060 / enquiries@staffscountyshowground.co.uk for a schedule or download a copy from our websit: www.staffscountyshowground.co.uk.
The closing date for entries is 1st May 2015. If you would like any further information please don’t hesitate to contact Sue Mellor 01785 258060 / 247111 or Sue@staffscountyshowground.co.uk
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www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
Shows with a BBGS Stand and Exhibitors
Royal Norfolk Show
1st – 2nd July 2015 Exhibiting and Promoting Boer Goats
Royal Bath and West Show 27th – 30th May Exhibiting and Promoting Boer Goats
BBGS Judges List
We have started to form a list of judges for future shows and we would encourage all our members to provide names for this list of potential judges to the BBGS. Nominated judges can then be used at the shows we hope to hold around the UK. There are not many qualified Boer Goat judges in the UK, and the cost of bringing in experienced judges from overseas prevents the BBGS from utilising them for all shows. What is equally important is that nominated people are or have been judges, are good stockmen and able to make fair, unbiased decisions.
The Basics of Show Preparation By Marie Barnes Micathel Stud, Cudal, NSW
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he following are some very basic thoughts on what to consider before heading out to your first show. My apologies to my peers who see or do it differently, the views are humbly that of the author • Selecting your team Try to get the basics right first, there is no point is putting time, effort and money into an animal that will not even make it into the ring. Everybody has it happen, but keeping in mind the basics of the 4 T’s will put you on the right track. 1. Teeth – correct bite, and correct number of teeth for class entered (if applicable) 2. Teats – always interpretive, but do at least know what your animal has and whether you really think it meets the breed standard. 3. Testes – must be of uniform and acceptable size. They should also be of a firm nature suggesting the animal is capable of breeding
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4. Toes – well legs and basic structure really. Good feet, pastern and leg structure with correct angles through hock and shoulder will at least give a correct starting point. Once you have picked an animal that is basically correct, start to look for things that make it ‘better’ in your eyes than its paddock peers. Longer, broader, more masculine/ feminine, more character etc are things that should be coming to mind. Try to compare your stock with others of similar age at other studs, or have another breeder look over your selections, but at the end of the day – YOU have to be happy with the animals you choose to represent YOUR stud!! • Meeting show requirements Make sure you read the requirements of entry for a show. Most require entries to be submitted well before the day of competition, so make sure yours are www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
sent in time. Enter animals in their correct classes. Ensure your animals are registered, tattooed, have completed any required health tests and all health and transport documents are in order. Preparation with these things prevents a disaster the night before the show! • Feeding your team If you are just heading down to the local for a 1 day event and your goats are in good order, a team may not need to be fed. If you are considering a run of shows, or a major show, your stock will need to be looking their best without being overfat. This will involve feeding them a balanced ration. My personal preference is to go easy on the barley and corn as they can cause leg issues and the goats may get too fat too fast. Speak to breeders in your area who you think present their animals appropriately and ask their advice. My rule is animals need 6 weeks on feed to get to a major show with heavily
lactating does who have worked hard needing another 2 weeks on top of that. • Presenting your team Most of us like to look our best when we are heading out in public and the same must apply to your goats, they are the ambassadors of your stud and should be presented as such. Let’s start from the ground up! • Feet: When goats are on feed, feet will need to be trimmed more often and this is important. Bad foot trimming or lack of regular trimming can turn good feet and legs bad. • Coats: can be brushed and stripped of excess coarse hair and cashmere – the budget conscious tool is a hacksaw blade, the Porsche model is a Mars grooming comb or similar. Trimming is becoming an art form and there are many who do a more thorough job than me, but the truth remains a fundamental tidy up will turn dowdy into diva in about twenty minutes! • The basics are: Head – trim the excess hair from the brow of the goat so that you are showing off the bone
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structure. Blend your edges and be careful not to go too far down the nose otherwise the opposite to what you desire is achieved! Take a look at pictures to guide if unsure. Oiling horns on show day is a nice finishing touch. Body: Remove the whorly type hairs down near the belly, you are just taking away a visual distraction that breaks the long line of a deep body. You will also need to trim the excess hair off a bucks neck so it is easy for the judge to see if the animal has a good shoulder and neck. Too much hair left on the neck can give the illusion that a lovely correct buck is too short or unbalanced. Tails: should be trimmed neatly but not heavily, and it is said by some that on bucks don’t at all. Hair around feet: Some people like to trim the hair around the goats feet, personally I don’t, and only take the heavier hair out from between their toes. Animals are too often seen in the show ring with heavily trimmed feet hair, sporting under trimmed platform style feet www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
and this is just plain ugly and only serves to highlight the animals (often manmade) faults. Your goat will require a wash before the show but do allow them time to dry before transport and try not to wash them in hideous weather. Speaking of coats do remember to make sure your goats are lice free for shows – even at the small ones where you may not be checked – its just plain manners! And at the bigger shows – you will be sent home! Do not transport does more than 4 months in kid – you are just asking for trouble. • Logistics and what to take: Obviously, feed and water containers, feed, grooming equipment, foot trimmers, leads for showing and getting your animals about the pavilion, stud sign, white coats if you need them, but more importantly it is good to plan for things to go wrong. SO it’s a good idea to take a basic first aid for your goats, antiseptic spray, an odd bandage or two (I’ve only ever had to use them on human competitors but they are still handy!) basic veterinary medications,
electrolytes and scour treatments. Please do be extremely careful that you only administer medications with the knowledge and authorisation of the show society because at most shows there are rules regarding their use with penalties for doing so without notification. • Show day etiquette You selected your team, fed them and groomed them and you have finally made it to the show – usually not without arguments or tears! Do remember you are representing
your stud and business, and that try to remain cool calm and collected, if you win be gracious in victory and congratulate your peers on either side of you in the line, it’s a nice touch not seen often enough. Do also remember that show organisers are volunteers and most are not paid for the long hours, before during and after a show, try to be patient with stewards and officials and thank them at the end of the day for their efforts. We would not have the shows without them.
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• Handling in the ring The first time in the ring can be bewildering. Pay attention to only three things – your animal, your stewards, and your judge. You need to be ready to react when directed. Keep your animal looking its best when you are in the line up, and make adjustments discreetly when the judge is not looking at you. Nothing looks worse than an animal standing badly with the handler chatting to someone outside the ring – it is unprofessional and an insult to both your animal and judge you have put it before! Practice at home how to stand an animal up –get a friend to tell you when you have it right – it is often the difference between at least placings in a class! Head up legs square and not too stretched out are a few basic starters! A final word! At a show you are promoting our industry and showing the world what you are trying to achieve as a breeder, you are in the public eye. Do your best, have fun, enjoy your day because just being able to take part is success in itself!
Johnes Article response letter
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was very pleased and interested to read an article about Johnes disease in the December Newsletter. This is a little understood disease and I have been contacted by many a new owner who has been horrified to find they have a goat (s) with Johnes in their herd.
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They are often in quite a panic about the future of their herd. Johnes is surprisingly common in goats and many herds have at least had contact with it. I was disappointed then when the article made no mention of the very www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
effective and affordable vaccine which is readily available. Given that the disease causes a horrible suffering death, in animals who have reached 3 to 5 years old and have therefore, more often than not, become a much loved member of a herd, I find it surprising that so few people choose to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is given only once, as close to birth as possible (before 2 weeks old) and then covers the animal for its entire life. Whilst at around £2 per dose it seems expensive, once this is worked out, over giving the goat a full working life of eleven years or more it really does become an insignificant figure in relation to the annual cost of the goat. Johnes is frequently missed in goats for several years and normally until after they have had a huge amount of time to shed the mycobacteria, potentially causing contamination of a great proportion of your goats. Also an animal can often test negative, even if it is a carrier meaning it is almost impossible to “cull” for Johnes. I personally would be very cautious of an attempt to do that, it seeming a bit too much like papering over the cracks.
Some will tell you that it is possible for a vaccinated goat to still be a carrier – which is true – however because they are vaccinated they should not shed the contamination as they do not get to the point where they are showing classic disease symptoms and they live out a happy full length life. Because of this reduction in contamination it is quite possible to reduce the Johnes burden in your herd. Vaccinate all the stock, they shed less disease, the next generation does not contract the disease in the same numbers and from there on each generation becomes more free from the disease, all the whilst still protected by their vaccine. If you are interested in the option to vaccinate your goats you should talk to your vets about “Gudair” vaccine (created and licenced for use in goats). Discuss the possibility of vaccinating the whole herd first – whilst the older stock do not receive the same level of cover it does give some protection and gives a level starting point. Then go on vaccinating each year’s kids (you don’t need to do any which will be going for meat but any which will stay as
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breeding females and pure males) Vaccination really is the only way to know the true Johnes status of your herd. The sooner more breeders begin vaccinating the sooner this horrific disease will be reined in, contamination will stop and good goats will stop dying from a perfectly preventable illness. Therefore I personally believe that there is no better way to protect not only your herd, but also that of the national herd’s future, than to choose to vaccinate and to buy only vaccinated goats. Why would any breeder choose to save the cost of £2 per head and put their goats at risk of such a horrible death? Any responsible owner should put the health of their stock over and above this minor expense. Sharon Peacock (Cockerham Herd) PS. you should make a point of asking the disease status of any herd you are considering buying from – there are lots of diseases you could potentially buy – make sure you know which you are putting yourself at risk of! www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
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2016 CALENDAR
ollowing the success of previous calendars it’s time to get snapping your goats and send in your pictures for the 2016 calendar. Pictures will be independently judged and the winning twelve will make up the calendar. All pictures will be on the website for all to see. Calendars will be available at the AGM or by post thereafter. Send images to beckieholmes1234@gmail.com Beckie
KID FRICASSEE Cook Time: 1 hour 30 minutes, serves 4
Ingredients:
For the kid fricassee: • 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 pounds of kid, cut into large chunks • 2 large heads of Romaine lettuce, broken into large pieces • 1/2 bunch of fresh dill, chopped • 2-3 stalks of celery, chopped • 10 green onions, chopped • 1 cup of olive oil • 1/2 cup of water • 2 teaspoons of salt • 1/2 teaspoon of pepper For the avgolemono: • 3 eggs, separated • juice of 3 lemons • 1 tablespoon of cold water
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Preparation:
1. Boil the meat in enough water to cover for 10 minutes. Drain. 2. In a frying pan, heat the oil over high heat and brown the meat. Add the onions and cook until they soften. 3. Transfer to a stew pot with 1/2 cup of water, celery, salt, and pepper. Cook, covered, for thirty minutes over medium-high heat. Add dill and lettuce, resume boil, reduce heat, cover, and simmer for 1 hour. 4. When the fricassee has cooked and only a small amount of liquid remains in the pot, turn off heat.In a small bowl, whisk together the egg whites with 1 tablespoon of cold water until frothy. Whisk in the egg yolks and lemon juice. Add 1–2 ladles full of liquid from the pot to the egg-lemon mixture and stir gently. Slowly pour the
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egg-lemon sauce over the meat. With a wooden spoon, stir gently 4 times. Then shake the pot gently side to side to distribute. Allow to sit covered on the stove for twenty minutes before serving.
ADVERTISEMENTS Adverts for inclusion in the magazine should be sent to the editor either by email (sandyhillsfarm@hotmail,co.uk) or by post by closing copy date which is the 15th on the month preceding issue (Issue months – March, June, September & December) We will also include any website adverts which are new since the last Newsletter, for one issue. It should be noted that overlong adverts may be reduced at the editor’s discretion
The Ruby Red Herd Norfolk
Have for sale two registered 50% doelings Toffee and Caramel. Dob 02/02/2014, Sire: Dencross Aaron, Dam: Fudge, (Anglo Nubian x British Guernsey). Two well handled good natured goats. £350 the pair. 07716 178 586 burevalleyfarm@gmail.com
Boer Goats, Kent
Lanefield boer goat kids for sale, out of pure imported German and Dutch does, Sire: Topknot Khan (by Magregers Spencer). Doelings ready to mate this year, some does with this year’s kids. 01233 733 285 / 07907 6940 040
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100% Bucklings for sale, Devon SOLD! 2nd lot due mid June We will have non registered 100% Boer bucklings for sale at the end of March when weaned.
Does, goatlings and buck for sale, near Tavistock
5 does born 2012 – pregnant with 2nd lot of kids due in May, all kidded twins last year, @ £175 each 6 does born 2013 – pregnant with 1st lot of kids also due in May, @ £175 each
These are stocky, well grown kids from a fantastic sire who throws really good stock and will be suitable to grow on for the premium meat trade.
4 goatlings born 2014 – not served yet, @ £150 each
Please contact Avril. 07768 856 522 avrilw46@yahoo.co.uk
All BBGS registered
www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
Also for sale is the father of the kids due in May, Tricorn Jack 01822 840528 carole.orlebar@btinternet.com
Percentage Kids for sale – Hertfordshire
Folly Meadow Goats has 4 kids for sale: Becky born November 2014 87.5% – £175 Beth born November 2014 87.5% – £175 Brittany born November 2014 75% – £150 Blanche born November 2014 75% – £150 Just weaned, available at the end of March. These kids are all horned and from a CAE accredited and CLA tested herd. Please email Ian Grant at folly.meadow@btinternet.com for further details or photos.
Stour Valley Boer Goats – Essex/Suffolk border
We are C.A.E. accredited, Scrapie monitored and CLA negative (last blood test 09/14) We kid end March/April 2015 and will have traditional 100% full-blood male & female kids, as well as 100% full-blood red male & female kids available this year. All enquiries welcome, located close to Bures, Suffolk. www.stourvalleyboergoats.co.uk info@stourvalleyboergoats.co.uk
Advertising
Standard advertisements of the type included to date are free of charge and include all those added into the website since the issue date of the previous newsletter. However, we also offer the option to buy full or half page advertisements, the prices are as follows: • Half page with black and white photograph £10.00 • Half page with colour photograph £25.00 • Full page with colour photograph £45.00
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Doe, doeling and wether in North Devon
Morley Berry: 2.5 year old registered doe (75%). Proven mother having kidded once and successfully reared healthy twins. With a calm and affectionate temperament Berry has not experienced any health problems. £295 Puddleduck Holly: 1 year old unregistered doeling (87.5%) Sire: Beaufort Damien (0.2281.S) Dam: Morley Berry (4.369.C). A fine looking doeling who would be a credit to any herd. £275 Please see our website for images and more details: www.puddleduckvalley. co.uk/Sale_Stock.html Phil & Melanie Thompson 01409 281311 • 07970 636899 phil.thompson@puddleduckvalley.co.uk
Is Truffle a Record Breaker?
Topknot Truffle and her quads born March 2014
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opknot Truffle is now 7 years old (DOB: 31.08.2008). She is a very prolific goat. This year on 2nd January 2015 she gave birth to quads for the third time. Each year I usually get at least one set of quads, but the goats only normally have had one set of quads in their lifetime. Truffle has now had quads 3 times in a row! Is this a record? She has given me twelve kids in 3 years. She rears two and I rear two on the bottle. And she still hasn’t lost her figure! Truffle is a bit amazing. The first time she had 4 boys! And one didn’t have any testicles – at least not that you could detect. The other two times have been 2 girls and 2 boys.
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JUST KIDDING T C G Y K E T T U N M V O S Z
E A S N I W T M K N D A U Y E
B E G K D Y B I E L L N P N Z
C S E J T I D B Q O P C I C B
U A H I L S U R M M Z D E T T
CAESARIAN CASTRATE COLOSTRUM DISBUD EAR IODINE
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B R S I G B B T C E O N B P J
S I C T P R S Z H I Q R J W C
G A I K R H I N A G A R S W A
L N H E F A D M O B I K I I H
P L A C E N T A U G Y E Y Q R
G T Q U Y V G E K C B R W V N
KIDS PLACENTA TAG TWINS UMBILICAL WEIGHT
Z S Q E U Z Z L T J G H U K E
M U R T S O L O C K W B K S A
B L K V Y I I U Q R N X K J R
V P V D S J K Y X Q J F T Z D
My Life with Goats By Susan Cassin, Neacroft Herd
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haven’t a large herd of commercial goats to make a living with large profits in mind or other varied reason for keeping goat – of which I have heard many over the years. My interests began when I gave up teaching and rescued a British Alpine goat, from this I was hooked and one goat became three. I showed my goats, sold milk, made yogurt, cheese and ice cream. I now supply a local pub with meat. Diesel then went up in price and regulations enforced regarding dairies and environmental health visits, why did they always visit in bad weather when they had nothing better to do!! We had a Dorset Goat Club visit to Mary Fullers and I thought this was the way forward. I didn’t want to milk twice a day and couldn’t do markets as I became carer for my husband 24/7. I acquired a red female and Jo Elliot
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encouraged me to borrow her Boer male to put to my dairies and that’s how it all began and why I still produce large coloured goats at times. This year I have put a red male to my goats supposedly a new bloodline. Later this year I have a significant birthday and hope to go out with a bang, hopefully a red haze. I don’t intend to be an old fart in an armchair!! My animals have kept me going in some very difficult times, something to get up for everyday and have managed on my own for nearly a year – thankfully the winter has been kind to me this year. When my husband was first diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, a contingency plan was drawn up by the Carers Association. However, I checked the people on my list and all were either retired or had passed away. Am I the oldest goat keeper going still? www.britishboergoatsociety.co.uk
It will be necessary for me to part with some of my herd in the summer. The goats are pretty substantial, originating from large dairies and original British Boers. They are a mixture of percentages that have evolved rather than been bought in. They are regularly wormed, foot trimmed and vaccinated. All my females are disbudded – they are all a bit spoilt, most know their names. At present I have seventeen females of all ages. I would be nice for them to go together somewhere near so I can still see them, their kids are due in May. I am happy to keep my older ladies in family group. They really are a contented lot.
Susan