Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Navidaters,

I met a guy (I’ll call him Moshe here for clarity) at a shidduch dating

event, and we started dating shortly after. We have been dating for

five weeks and hopefully things will continue going well... This guy is

amazing and I’m very appreciative of the women who put this event together.

Moshe wants to bring in a shadchan who was part of the event to “keep her in the loop” – he feels we owe

it to her because we met at her event. Personally, I don’t want any outside people included in our relationship. Not

only will this woman probably try to pry and give advice but also will probably claim we owe her shadchanus if it

works out when we really met organically. This has become a point of contention between me and Moshe, but I feel

he’s just being pressured by the shadchan. How can I help him understand where I am coming from?

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

This seems to be more than a communication issue with Moshe. It seems that you have expressed your fears to Moshe about her inserting herself into the relationship. He still feels that the woman who facilitated your meeting at the event had a role in setting you two up and should be given the courtesy of an update.

You say you appreciate the women who set up the event. Yet you are also seeking to avoid the hakaras hatov of giving her something as shadchanus should the shidduch develop.

He recognizes that there was effort involved from the get-go and your developing a relationship with him is a byproduct of that event. And he wants to acknowledge that effort by telling the woman that you are dating for a few weeks already.

Recognize the effort involved. Recognize Moshe’s menchlechkeit and awareness of the difficulty of setting up events and shidduchim. Recognize his middos tovos.

At the same time, look at yourself in the mirror. Why are you afraid of bringing someone else into the know? Why are you afraid of giving credit where credit is due whether or not this develops into a shidduch? Your attitudes and appreciation need work.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

Imagine the following scenario:

You’re married to Moshe, and on Shabbos you host a beautiful Shabbos meal. Moshe did the shopping for all the ingredients for the delectable seudah. With all of the ingredients he bought, you prepare dips, chop salads, blend soups, whip cream, check strawberries, and fry chicken. The guests sit around the table and all comment on the wonderful Shabbos seudah. Moshe responds with a “thank you!” taking responsibility for the meal. He does not mention your part in the seudah at all. He does not thank you for the wonderful spread. How does this make you feel?

Your relationship at its core is the ingredients which the two of you are working together with Hashem’s help to build a lifelong relationship. The chopping, cooking, baking and the stuff behind closed doors to make the meal happen were the women who curated, invited, planned, set up, and organized this shidduch event.

Your attitude claiming a disinterest in giving shadchanus if this shidduch transpires correlates to the “Moshe” in the story who refuses to recognize his wife’s immeasurable efforts to make the seudah delicious and beautiful.

Do you know what shadchanim go through day-in and day-out for the sake of the single population? Do you know how many hours it takes to plan and curate a successful shidduch event (which, judging by your and Moshe’s interest in each other, it sounds as if it was)? Before even discussing your issue with the matter, I am pointing out a middah which can make or break a marriage. This is a middah which it seems Moshe has gotten right, and you have got all wrong. Yes, you should keep the shadchan who organized the event in the loop, and yes, she deserves shadchanus, a gift of your and Moshe’s gratitude, if you iy”H get engaged.

I know I am answering a question you did not ask, but as a shadchan on the other end of your predicament, I can’t not respond to it.

One more thing: Check in with Moshe about communication in general. It sounds like he’s the type of guy who will want to check in with mentors about issues that arise. You, however, sound like a person who wants to figure everything out by yourself. This imbalance can cause many shalom bayis issues in the future, if it is not worked out now. Discuss the topic and figure out if you’re both on the same page.

Hatzlacha!

The Single

Tzipora Grodko

Istrongly support your decision. Consider expressing to Moshe that you don’t want to do anything that can potentially compromise or interfere with the development of your relationship. A shadchan is supposed to make things easier, assist with communication, guidance, and formalities in place to limit painful experiences. Based on your description, it doesn’t sound like those are areas that you and Moshe need assistance in right now.

If he feels like he “owes” her some involvement, he can write a thank you card or simply give her a thank you call as well. Both actions reflect gratitude and appreciation, which I think is his underlying motive for trying to involve her.

How exciting, and much hatzlacha!

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Welcome to the wonderful world of boy/girl relationships and disagreements. Let us attempt to classify he/she disputes as follows:

Category #1 are issues that don’t really matter. For example, she might like Raisin Bran, the Mets, and Democrats, while he might like Cheerios, the Yankees, and Republicans, but they can agree to disagree and live happily ever after.

Category #2 are issues that are amenable to compromise. For example, they can spend one Pesach with her parents and the next Pesach with his parents; they can go on a Disney vacation one year and a tour of Spain the next year.

Category #3 are disputes that need to be decided one way or the other. For example, should we live in the 5 Towns or in Teaneck? Do we send the kids to Yeshiva A or Yeshiva B?

Your question seems like one that is amenable to compromise.

On the one hand, you’re at that point in your relationship where the couple would usually “drop” the shadchan; on the other hand, your boyfriend sounds like a very ethical and proper gentlemen who feels a moral obligation to involve the shadchan.

Why not compromise here? You can keep the shadchan “in the loop” by Moshe sending an appreciative text, every few weeks, reporting that things are going nicely. At the same time, the two of you can politely but firmly inform her that you wish to keep the relationship private and prefer to not have a go-between.

Now, please step back for a moment, and keep in mind that when folks volunteer to run a singles event, they, at best, break even financially. No one makes money on these events. They do it out of a sincere desire to help people.

So, giving hakaros hatov to the shadchan who helped organize the event and recruit singles to attend the event would certainly seem like the proper thing to do. Providing positive reinforcement for her efforts might encourage her to organize future events and help more folks like yourselves.

I don’t really know if you will “owe” a shadchanus fee, but consider what a local shadchan told me: “There is room for generosity of heart and spirit if this relationship culminates in an engagement. Why not reward the organizer with a token of appreciation? Hakaras hatov brings about bracha. And, if your relatively small act of gratitude encourages the shadchan to plan more events, you and Moshe will have a part in future shidduchim as well! What a bracha for a new couple.”

The healthiest relationships will have disagreements.

Pulling It All Together

The Navidaters

Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists

Thank you for writing into our column! I don’t feel it’s my place to comment on the appropriateness of inviting the shadchan into your relationship at this time, as I am not a shadchan and don’t understand “the rules” as to how this works. I am curious about why Moshe wants the shadchan’s involvement now. Why now? Is there something he is feeling uncertain about? Have you asked him about this? Did she reach out to him? This may be of utmost importance!

What I am going to comment on is the importance of being able to communicate with your partner and the ability for you two to hear each other, validate each other’s needs and concerns, and reach a con - clusion to - gether, as an intact cou- ple who is stronger due to the intimacy created having learned about each other’s needs.

The first piece to examine is the way you communicated your needs to Moshe. Were you direct or indirect? Aside from the shadchanus issue, did you communicate to Moshe exactly what your concerns are about having a shadchan involved? “I am scared she will pry or offer advice that could ultimately hurt us, as I’ve seen happen so many times.” If you are certain you have been lovingly direct with Moshe, and have expressed

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yourself clearly and vulnerably, then the fact that this has become a “point of contention” may be of concern. It’s not always the content that two people are arguing about, it is the inability to hear each other, and possibly not really caring about what is important to the other. In a securely attached, emotionally safe relationship, both parties feel understood and important. In my relationship, my needs matter to my partner. I am wondering if you and Moshe feel this way in your relationship. In the lifetime of a relationship, five weeks is a blip and not enough time to have developed a securely attached relationship. It is enough time to begin to get a sense of your emotional safety and ability to work together as a couple. Perhaps this is your first disagreement. Disagreements are going to happen! Oh boy, are they going to happen! The healthiest relationships will have disagreements. Both you and Moshe are entitled to your feelings about the shadchan’s involvement. And the goal is to listen to the needs of the other and make the other feel that his/her needs are of utmost importance! When we don’t feel heard or cared for in our disagreements is when “points of contention” develop.

So, bring this up again to Moshe. Calmly and lovingly ask him to share his feelings about the shadchan with you. It is my hope that he will do the same for you. If he shows no concern or regard for how you feel (or vice versa), and a deeper, more intimate conversation doesn’t take place, that is worth examining. A true partner in life is going to care more about his/her spouse’s feelings than disappointing a shadchan.

If you truly get stuck in this area, it is most definitely worth seeing a therapist together to help navigate this disagreement. Moshe may be Mr. Right, and you guys may need a little help in the communication department. Don’t avoid this issue and don’t “agree to disagree” if one

Do you know what shadchanim go through day-in and day-out for the sake of the single population?

party is going to have resentment. Remember, couples argue. It is not about the content as much as it is about the way you handle disagreements and the way you care for each other during disagreements. One person cannot do all the emotional labor. The labor of a relationship should be an absolute labor of love for each of you.

All the best, Jennifer

P.S. Without a fuller picture, I don’t feel I know enough about what is going on to say the following, however this is my urging to anyone dating: discuss everything before getting married! Discuss your visions for involvement from others – whether its family, a doctor, a therapist or a rabbi. Discuss the boundaries you each envision around your relationship. From how much time you want to spend with family to financial decisions and how much money you invest in entertainment and how much money you feel comfortable having in the bank before you buy your first home. How are we going to resolve conflicts? While people grow and evolve and circumstances change, it is important to address it all before you get married. A couple is a team who wants to win together. In order to do that, you need a shared vision that you both believe in. You need to find out if you’re playing for the same team.

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Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and certified trauma healing life coach, as well as a dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www. thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.