19 minute read
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
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Dear Dear Navidaters, Navidaters, My question may be different than those you usually receive, but I would really appreciate your advice. I see many girls writing about their lack of suggestions, and I wanted to bring up the opposite side. As a mainstream guy from a good family who went to typical schools and yeshivas, I am struggling with the very real problem of too many suggestions. My inbox is flooded with resumes; I have shadchanim and mothers and random people in the street hounding me constantly; and I am more than overwhelmed. At this point, it is so hard to decide who to go out with and how to prioritize in an endless list of seemingly similar girls. On paper, they all sound great. The shad chanim always tell me this girl is “exactly what you’re looking for.” I am grateful to have a lot of suggestions for dates but it is still hard for me. I can either attempt to sort through huge piles of resumes that all seem the same and that every reference describes as “normal, beautiful, smart, fun, and growing” and still be confused or say yes to every person and spend lots of money and time and effort going on dates every night. Either way, I am not doing these girls or myself a favor as I am burned out and exhausted by even the thought of another date. What advice can you of fer me?
Thanks,
Moshe
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
You seem to be detailing two issues.
One is your burnout from the dating scene.
The other is the lack of clarity about what exactly you are seeking in a life partner, and the deluge of suggestions.
I would suggest taking a timeout for both purposes. Take some time to relax from the barrage of dates and girls to really introspect. Don’t just think about the qualities you are seeking in a potential spouse; con sider what you have to offer a young woman in terms of inner qualities and strengths. Give yourself the peace of mind and time to consider your style of dealing with stress and challenge. What qualities would a good potential partner need to have to help you and support you in your response to difficulty? How do you discern whether a young woman has those qualities that will help you de velop in a healthy manner? What are your weak points and in what areas would you like to grow? What have you learned about yourself during your dating experiences? Do you have emotional baggage from your life thus far?
Taking a good look in the mirror is smart as well as humbling. Since you are mature enough to recognize your dating fatigue, and the fact that your resume is very attractive (and that it’s not because you are necessarily so great that you are getting all these suggestions), take responsibility for your dating opportunities. Don’t be passive. Take the time to tell shadchanim who you are, what you are all about, and what qualities you are looking for. You may also want to consider suggestions only from people who know you personally for a while. Taking personal stock of yourself and cutting down on the number of people from whom you take suggestions will make dating a more productive and manageable process.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
In shidduchim, women are lost in a desert while men are lost in a forest. Women seem to be lost in a world devoid of good-quality men while men can’t show up at the grocery store without ten more shidduch suggestions being thrown at them from all aisles. This is one of the many problems with the shidduch system. Those who have established this system have (undeliberately) created a world where it is normal for single men and their parents to hoard boxes of resumes of wonderful women to choose from. This inherently creates an aggrandized sense of entitlement in young men who are dating, oftentimes who don’t have much to show for themselves because they don’t need to. This situation makes it more difficult for the men to be able to commit. Why commit to one when the next could potentially be better? The men often harbor an overinflated ego with the knowledge that there will always be someone who surpasses the current one. The next one might be nicer, smarter, prettier, frummer etc... The list goes on... It is a problem that must change, which is why I want to begin with this here, because as a community we must shed light on this crucial issue.
As a community we must educate the young singles out there to completely revamp their thought process if truly serious about marriage, rather than just playing the field. My advice for you is to recognize this: The next person you choose to go out with can have the potential to be your bashert. There is a famous story about an older bochur who went to a famous Rav/ Mekubal. The bochur asked why he wasn’t zoche to be married yet, like most of his peers. The Rav responded, “You did meet your bashert, but you passed her up because you thought the next one would be better.” This rings true for many in today’s generation. Rather than the recognition that he should be looking for a good match by actively choosing this woman as his bashert based on her stellar qualities; these men, with endless suggestions, wait for one of these resumes to be a Ms. Perfect planted at the door along with a bas-kol at no additional charge.
Newsflash: That just does not happen. If it does happen, I am worried for you because it is likely infatuation. Infatuation quickly fades if the relationship is not based on the very sturdy ground of commonality, respect, compatibility, care and trust.
Be very careful not to fall for the false narrative that if you choose to marry an amazing woman whom you respect and care for, with whom you are clearly compatible, you might be doomed if you do not know 100%. You can actively choose your bashert and make her your 100% - you are in the driver’s seat of your happiness here. You can either dwell on the not-soperfect while being blind to your own flaws, leading you from date to date; from girl to girl, with no end in sight. Or, you can focus on the one in front of you, the one you decide to date. If you, together with a like-minded woman who also respects and cherishes you, get to a good place together, do not dwell on what-if’s while staring at your endless abyss of other resumes. You can feel confident moving forward to take the leap of faith together.
Stop looking for signs from above to lead you to certainty; the signs are here on earth. If you have found a connection with someone good for you, go for it, and leave the connection of your souls to G-d - whom, if you chose this woman for the right reasons, will undoubtedly take it from there.
The Single
Rena Friedman
Moshe, Wow! That sounds like a lot. As a girl within the system, I have never experienced anything like that. I do remember the rare occasion where 2 or 3 guys would say yes to me at once and it felt very overwhelming, so I cannot imagine how Don’t just think about the qualities you are seeking in a potential spouse; consider what you have to offer a young woman in terms of inner qualities and strengths.
you are feeling with your level of bombardment. Also, while your question may not be typical, it is an extremely important one that must be asked and answered for both men and women. Thank you for being brave enough to do it and perhaps dodge some rotten tomatoes along the way.
The burnout you discuss is extremely real. Shkoyach for recognizing that you are at that point and trying to find a way to change it up. I experienced this myself as I would say yes to guys who were not shayach for me. The best way to deal with burnout is to pause. Think. Acknowledge what is burning you out and put a system in place to prevent that from happening in the future. For you, it is the overwhelming amount of suggestions from everyone and anyone. You need a serious vetting system in place. Take some time to think about and answer the following questions: What do you need in a wife? What type of girls have and have not worked for you in the past? What is a blatant no for you? Once you have this information gathered, use it to help guide you when doing research.
Use her resume and photo as a preliminary screening. For example, if it drives you nuts when girls do not use proper grammar or spelling in their resumes, then toss all the ones with those errors in the garbage. Have specific questions that you can
ask references to see if the traits you need or need to avoid exist. For example, if you cannot go out with a girl who is socially off then flat out ask the reference, “Is she socially off?”
If you do not want this burden on your shoulders, find a trusted friend, parent, or mentor who truly understands what you need and have them go through the resumes for you. I cannot stress the importance of being 100% confident that this person is on your team and gets you and what you need. The wrong person in this position can be very harmful.
A general warning: although we think we feel better with more choices, the more we have, the less likely we will actually choose or feel satisfied. Keep this in mind. Being married to Ms. Good Enough is better than not being married at all. The amazing right girl is out there for you. Just keep davening. Of all the hishtadlus you can put in from everything mentioned above, place the burden on Hashem. Express to Him that you need Him, and ask Him to help you find the right girl for you. Daven for clarity and specifically that you see the right girl when she is in front of you. Before you know it, your perspective will change and you won’t even recognize yourself. It will all come at the right time.
As always, all feedback, thoughts, and ideas are welcome: renafriedman2@gmail.com.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
Iam reluctant to write, “Don’t complain! I wish I had that problem back in high school.” I dread inviting a flood of snide comments from my former classmates.
In today’s world of Shidduchim, your problem is very real and very prevalent, and can be as troubling as that of a girl who has too few prospects. Statistically, “in the Orthodox dating pool, there are 12 percent more available women than men (Date-Onomics, by Jon Birger).”
A friend remarked that orthodox young men need a secretary and gatekeeper, while orthodox young women need a press agent and public relations firm.
Here are my suggestions: You might wish to attend Rabbinically-supervised social events, where young men and women meet on their own, rather than through recommendations. However, I understand that these events are not accepted in many religious circles.
As an alternative, I suggest that you pick one person, and only one person, that you trust completely. It should be someone who “gets you,” understands your likes and dislikes, and recognizes your particular goals and aspirations. This person could be your mother or a trustworthy shadchan. In shidduchim, women are lost in a desert, while men are lost in a forest. Women seem to be lost in a world devoid of good quality men while men can’t show up at the grocery store without ten more shidduch suggestions being thrown at them from all aisles.
Before
Then, when anyone else contacts you with a shidduch recommenda
The Navidaters Thank you for writing in! I would recommend taking a break from dating to regroup. This break may be a few days, a month or more. If one is being offered one hundred flavors of delicious ice cream, a few outcomes may occur: 1. The person immediately knows he’s going for his favorite flavor, cookie dough. He will choose the cookie dough every time because he loves cookie dough and is truly content with the flavor. 2. He will want to taste a few flavors before he ultimately chooses his ice cream cone. 3. He will stand at the counter for too long, ruminating, unable to choose, and missing the whole ice cream experience.
Take the sage advice the panelists have offered and deeply introspect. Think about what you want. Everyone is “wonderful” on paper. What are you looking for? What is important to you? Since you are getting sugges tion from every Tom, Dick and Harry, you have the luxury of not accepting resumes from peripheral people in your life who do not know you well.
You need a better filtering system. I wonder if you have in any way tion, politely ask the individual to
Pulling It All Together
Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists
Dear Moshe,
please call your
Have a question for the panel? They’re here to help you with your dating conundrums. Email your questions for the panelists to Jen at thenavidaters@gmail.com. invited the over - w h e l m i n g a mou nt of resumes into your life, because let’s face it... it feels good to be wanted and in such high demand. How would you feel limiting the resumes coming in? What would come up for you internally? Notice whatever that feeling is. For some it might be worry that the right one will get away (nerves, anxiety!) For some it might be the loss of the pleasure and almost addictive like euphoria that the onslaught of resumes bring. For some, it might be sheer relief.
This is a huge problem that exists within shidduchim, as other panelists so wisely and eloquently explained. I can’t even begin to explain the amount of incredible (and I mean that!) single women I have had the joy of working with over the years. Women who be lieve there is something wrong with them because they aren’t married and have a hard time getting dates. One of the main focuses of the work is not giving into the belief that there must be something wrong with them. There is something wrong with the shidduch system. It is a system that puts men and their families up on a pedestal while discarding women and theirs. It makes no sense to me other than it being a re flection of some antiquated patriarchal ideas that don’t serve anyone well.
How does this change? If a young man had fifty beautiful girls ready to date him, OF COURSE he is going to have a hard time choosing. We cannot deny human nature. And the women will try to be more and more designated person. Explain respectfully that this allows you to avoid being overwhelmed and distracted. Now, if these suggestions don’t work for you, I have an alternate proposal. My neighbor has a very nice granddaughter. impressive (working harder and harder and feeling less than and less than and less than.) Change has to take place on a systemic level. A movement perhaps. People are afraid of change. They are afraid to upset the powers that be. But this doesn’t work for so many people. Why do we want to continue giving the young men so much power? What are we really afraid of as a community? What would things look like if women were being bombarded with resumes? Hmmmmmm. Or better yet, what would it look like if things were simply more balanced? What are we waiting for?
Jennifer Mann, LCSW It’s true that I never met you, and that I know absolutely nothing about you, and that I only met my neighbor’s granddaughter once, but I think she’d be perfect for you. She is normal,
beautiful, smart, fun, and growing.
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
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DIRSHU New Dirshu Program for Bachurei Yeshivos Starting This Rosh Chodesh Av “Bezechus HaTorah” Program Will Provide Bachurim with a Unique Opportunity
Chaim Gold
We are living in unprecedented times! Since Purim, many of our holy yeshivos have not been functioning regularly. Although boruch Hashem, in some places throughout America there has been great improvement, there are still so many bachurim who are not in their regular misgeres, framework of a yeshiva. In Eretz Yisrael and Europe things are even less stable.
So many camps are closed or running on a limited basis. Thus, our most precious treasures, our bachurei yeshivos, upon whose learning the world stands, especially those who do not have a framework of a regular yeshiva or camp, are having a much more difficult time structuring their day in ways that are optimum for their ruchniyus. Rebbeim and Roshei Yeshivos have expressed their feeling that for many bachurim the present matzav is a crisis situation.
As bein hazemanim was approaching, several gedolei Roshei Yeshiva expressed their concern for the welfare of the continued shteiging of the wonderful bnei yeshivos. They felt the need to create some kind of framework to offer bachurim the structure so necessary for continued growth in learning and protection from the various nisyonos that characterize our times.
Prominent among these Roshei Yeshiva was HaGaon HaRav Boruch Dov Diskin, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva at Yeshiva Orchos Torah, the yeshiva established by HaGaon HaRav Aharon Leib Shteinman, zt”l.
The Importance of Structured Learning For Bochurim in the Age of Corona
Rav Boruch Dov approached the hanhala of Dirshu in Eretz Yisrael and begged them to create a special learning program that would start
Bochurim taking a Dirshu bechina at Camp Derech Aliyah in 2018.jpg
with the advent of the upcoming bein hazemanim that starts on Rosh Chodesh Av. The program would include tests and generous stipends thereby encouraging a framework for spiritual growth during this difficult time-period.
In addition, Rav Diskin went to the senior Rosh Yeshiva of our time in Eretz Yisrael, HaGaon HaRav Gershon Edelstein, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva of the Ponovezh Yeshiva to ask for his advice and bracha. Not only did Rav Gershon enthusiastically endorse the idea, but he also signed a letter encouraging bachurim the world over to join.
Numerous other gedolei Eretz Yisrael who were approached were similarly deeply pleased, and encouraged Dirshu to undertake the program and called on all bachurei yeshivos to join the program.
In addition to Rav Gershon, those who signed the special kol korei included the Sar HaTorah, HaGaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky, shlita, Chacham Shalom Cohen, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva, Yeshivat Porat Yosef, the Vizhnnitzer Rebbe, shlita, the Sanzer Rebbe, shlita, and HaGaon HaRav Shimon Baadani, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva, Yeshiva Torah V’Chaim.
In America, too, HaGaon HaRav Yeruchem Olshin, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva, Beth Medrash Govoha of Lakewood, penned a special letter praising the program. HaGaon HaRav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshiva Zichron Moshe, South Fallsburg and HaGaon HaRav Aryeh Malkiel Kotler, shlita, Rosh Yeshiva of Beth Medrash Govoha of Lakewood, endorsed the program as well.
Rav Olshin: It Is Incumbent On All Bnei Torah To Strengthen Themselves
In his letter, Rav Olshin addresses the bnei yeshivos directly. He writes, “We have undergone a period of great difficulty and travail. Especially the gezeirah of the closing of our battei medrash and yeshivos in a way that makes the heart tremble.” The Rosh Yeshiva acknowledges that with chasdei Hashem, things have recently gotten better, “But the yeshuah is not yet a complete one, and we need much chizuk…
“Now, as bein hazemanim - a time that always needs chizuk and especially this year - approaches,” the Rosh Yeshiva added, “it is incumbent on all bnei Torah to strengthen themselves with all of their might, especially in light of the rifyon that we have just sustained.
“How important, therefore,” Rav Olshin writes, “is the amazing work of the Dirshu organization that has designed a specific, detailed learning program starting on Rosh Chodesh Av wherein bachurim will be able to strengthen themselves in learning Torah and mussar with yegiah, according to a specific schedule…”
Indeed, Rav Diskin related, “I see this carefully planned and constructed program by Dirshu as a great yeshuah for our bachurei yeshivos. Every bachur wants to shteig, no bachur wants to have a yeridah, especially now during this difficult period for klal Yisroel but the lack of a framework and the fact that so many of our bachurim are not in a structured environment means that a program such as this can be both a tremendous way to grow in Torah while serving as a profound yeshuah for bachurim.”
Dirshu’s hanhala member, Rabbi Avidgor Bernstein, adds, “I am certain the very geshmake limud and the fact that so many bachurim all over the world, whether it is Eretz Yisrael, America, France or England, are joining and learning the same thing, will bring a great yeshuah and make for a wonderful achdus through Torah. That itself is a wonderful thing.
Indeed, we are living in unprecedented times and it is only in the zechus haTorah that the world will be saved. That zechus rests in the hands of our wonderful bachurei yeshivos!
To join or for more information please contact Dirshu at 888-5-Dirshu.
