Capturing the Flow of Information

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems

Capturing the Flow of Information Guest was Ben Graham

Sponsored by

Related Podcast: The Granularity of Process Mapping

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Ben B Graham has been helping people make sense of their processes for over thirty years. He is President of The Ben Graham Corporation and author of the book ‘Detail Process Charting: Speaking the Language of Process’ published by John Wiley Publishers. His company pioneered the field of business process improvement, and since 1953 has provided process improvement consulting, coaching and education services to organizations across North America. Ben has worked with many organizations to fix process-related problems, build process libraries and develop effective, processfocused, continuous improvement programs. His organization publishes Graham Process Mapping Software, which is designed specifically for preparing detail process maps.

You can find out more about Ben and the Graham Process Mapping software at http://processchart.com.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Transcription of Podcast Joe Dager: Welcome everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host of the Business 901 Podcast.

With me, today, is Ben Graham. He has been helping people make sense of their processes for over 30 years. He's the president of the Ben Graham Corporation and author of the book "Detail Process Charting," published by John Wiley. His company pioneered the field of business process improvement, and, since 1953, has provided process improvement consulting, coaching, and education services. Ben has worked with many organizations to fix process-related problems, build process libraries, and develop effective process focus continuous improvement program.

His organization publishes Graham Process Mapping software, which is designed specifically for preparing detail process maps. Ben, thanks for joining me and I would like to compliment you in this world of technology. It is refreshing to see a niche developer that has successfully survived through the years.

The obvious question is. How did you do it?

Ben Graham: Well, thanks Joe. I think it's because we have a product, something that's very reality based and it gets the job done. I'm a the third generation in my company to do this work and its work that was-- the principal tool we used was developed by my grandfather. It's as applicable today or maybe even more so with so many processes kind of hidden in electronics. It's very applicable. It gets down to the fundamentals of process work and we get a chance, by applying this tool, to see what's in a process and it makes it clear enough so we can make intelligent decisions about it.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Joe: I think there's sometimes confusion about process mapping. Tell me what process mapping is and isn't.

Ben: There're a lot of different types of process maps that you'll see out there. Process mapping is laying out a process flow. A process is a series of steps that accomplishes a specific task. A process map lays those steps out. When I say that there're a lot of variations, the variation comes at the level of detail that those maps have. You may have a process map that's got two or three steps in it to lay out a process where another one will have 150 steps. That's a level of detail situation.

Quite a few, if you did a search on process maps--a Google search on process maps--you'd - -, you'd see thousands and thousands of maps. Many of them are displayed on a single 8.5 x 11 page. They're very high level. They give you an idea of what's going on in the process and that can give you some focus points.

But a detailed map, which is the kind that I've used, identifies all the documents in a process. By document, I mean the forms, emails, spreadsheets, systems, anything that conveys information. It lays out all the documents and lays out the depths of what each one of those does and how they relate to each other, how information from one is used on another.

With that kind of information, you can make decisions about each of those documents.

That's a difference between the high level and the detail map.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Joe: When I look at process mapping, I think a lot of people think of Visio or, like you just mentioned, a lot of this stuff out on the web. This is not really what process mapping, more specifically your software, is about, is it?

Ben: That's right. Most maps are probably drawn with Visio. Visio comes with a lot of different shapes and such that you can use to create whatever you want. Unfortunately, when people are doing that they're reinventing the wheel and they're usually doing something or often doing something that's not going to be repetitive. They're not going to be able to use it again. Somebody else will see it and they'll probably start with something different. There are a lot of variations on what's sometimes referred to as the box and arrow method, which is a box, arrow, diamonds for decisions. Then sometimes people insert their own symbols in there.

Joe: When you mention all the different shapes and everything and the consistencies of having that common shape, it makes it much easier for people to understand and share, doesn't it?

Ben: Well, the problem is they have to invent the method they use every time. Is the flow chart going to flow left to right to indicate changes through time? Is it going to go up and down? Is it going to go around in circles? Is a phone call represented by a box or is it represented by a telephone? Who knows? If there's not a consistent method behind it, it's going to change and people are going to have trouble following it down the road. I think that's the biggest issue with Visio and other programs like that is that they're great for drawing a one-time picture of something, a diagram of something. But for process work, we want to have some kind of structured methodology behind it, and there are several.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems But with Visio and other diagramming packages, you have to bring your method to the table. You have the symbols there, and you have to figure out how to put them together and which ones you want to use and so forth.

Joe: I always think process mapping seems to get identified with Six Sigma and value stream mapping with Lean. Why is that and what's the difference? Can we maybe do a process map before we do a value stream?

Ben: Process mapping has been around for a long time to help people understand processes. It originated near the turn of the last century in manufacturing with what was called a flow process chart, which was a tool that manufacturing, machine shops and so forth, used to follow the flow of a part through its manufacture. Very powerful tool and that is what has evolved into the detail charting that we use. There is no reason why we can't do a value stream map and a process map. As a matter of fact, the value stream map gives you a high level view of what's going on in the manufacturing environment, typically.

That's where I have found them to be most useful.

They identify where information flows are. If you have some questions about that information flows, that's a great opportunity, then to use a detailed process map to see how that information is flowing through the shop floor, also from the office to the shop, or wherever the flow is and whatever media it is using.

You can get the details of that. Is it electronic and it's sent to terminal or it’s printed out and then hand walked over someplace? Or is it a piece of paper that is walked out and handed to somebody? All of these details of the process flow can be seen with a detail map, and that just adds more value to the analysis.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Joe: So you're saying a value stream map is done first and then the process map adds a granularity to it.

Ben: In a case where a value stream map adds value, which is in a manufacturing environment, I don't see the same value if you were doing work principally in the offices or in a service organization. It could be, but that not where I've seen its value. I've seen its value in the manufacturing. Yeah, that's what I would say.

Joe: Why doesn't everybody use detailed process mapping? What stops them from using it?

Ben: There're a few reasons. The biggest one is that most people don't know about it.

They don't know that there is a structured method that is available for doing that. Another one is that you have an opportunity to draw a map that takes up a page and another map that takes 15 feet of wall space. There're two ways to look at that. Which is going to be easier to create and which is going to be easier to work with? A lot of people will opt the shorter, simple map. But, unfortunately, that's not going to give you the kind of information you need to make intelligent decisions about the process. It's going to guide you in the right direction, possibly. But then you have to dig down to get the details.

Whereas the detailed map, it identifies every occurrence of information change in the process. You're able to pinpoint right there on the map what you have to dig in and try to figure out without a map if you just used a simpler, high-level map.

Joe: So is this something that I should blow up on a wall and do this process map, or do I use this software to copy all the sticky notes I put up on a wall?

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Ben: When we collect data, it is similar to value stream mapping. You want to walk the floor and capture the data. You don't want to bring people into a room where they're away from the day-to-day work. You want to go out to the floor or to the desk where the people are working to capture the data so that you don't overlook those non value-added type of tasks that people tend to forget away from the work. They tend to focus on the value-added steps, "I take this document and I update the system," something like that.

They tend to overlook the fact that they have to refer to a standards book or they have to make a photocopy or they have to go down the hall to do something. All these things are the non value-added steps that we'd like to get out of the process as much as we can.

Joe: Outside of attending a workshop, what is the best way to introduce process mapping software? I find that most software that there is this big stumbling block, a barrier to jump into the fray, per se. How would you recommend getting started maybe?

Ben: There is a lot of information in the Internet and, unfortunately, it's hard to sift through, because there's so much stuff and so many different ways to approach this. But if you really want to understand, pick a method and look for information on how to collect the data for that method, how to string symbols along, and try to get a... What you want is a solid methodology behind the mapping that you choose so that it's repetitive and that people can come back in two years and review the same process, understand what it is, and it can service a foundation for continuous improvement to keep getting better year after year.

Joe: Process mapping is very much doing current state, future state type work, right?

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Ben: Absolutely. You want to have a picture of what's going on now, and then you tap into the experience of the people who do the work. You sit them in front of the map that you've picked, the current state or the as-is process that you've documented and step through it, step by step. Another reason why the detailed map is valuable, because you can say...You're asking them a question about putting a document into an inbox or making three copies of it that get distributed, and so forth. They can make those kinds of decisions.

You do the same thing with a higher-level map. You've got to dig into the step, which is really a function, and it doesn't break it down into the specific documents and tasks that you're doing with those documents.

Joe: How do I know how much detail to put in a map?

Ben: The way that we approach that is that we've got a set of eight symbols that describe this kind of work that's going on. Basically, it's the type of work whether you're doing work, you're checking work; the work is moving from one location to another, or it's just sitting there doing nothing. A step which, by the way, is not included in a lot of methods. If the step activity changes then you want to put in another symbol. Also, if, for instance, you're updating a system and you're using a document to do that and then you use a different document, so you have a different source providing information. Well, there's a situation where you have two steps that are both a value added step, but they're concurrent because you're using different information to input them. Same thing if you had a different person doing the work.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems So, when something, the person, the source document, or the type of work changes, we want to capture that. If we do that, we'll have a pretty detailed map that anyone who's involved in that work can understand well enough to make intelligent decisions about it.

Joe: What's the limitation of process mapping? Can I put everything about the process on a document?

Ben: There are certain types of activities that occur. For instance, a meeting where people go get together as a group and make some decisions about something that's occurring in the process. Which, to capture the details of that, would be very difficult because it could change every time they have a meeting, the next item that passes through that process could be handled differently. Situations like that, we handle with a convention that's called a stop/start. We put in some information about that that just says, "This is a meeting going on," and then whatever the results of that meeting are, a report or something; we pick back up there.

Joe: The way you describe process mapping to me, this is a very live document. It's something that I actually work with.

Ben: Well, if you're not using it then it has no value and it was a waste of time. These things can be used, too, for training. If you have a new manager come in they need to understand what's going on in their area, they can use it. It's used for development of systems that support the process. They can see where all the information changes are. It's easy to dig in and find out specifically what information has changed. If you know where they're happening and what documents they're happening with, it's easy to figure what's going to be needed for the development work.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Joe: In this process mapping and service work and some of the service design type things that I get involved with, there's a lot of interest in customer journey maps or service blueprinting, as they're called. Can process software be used for that?

Ben: We don't get into the emotion aspects of a customer journey map, but we do capture with a process map all the touch points where a customer is directly involved in a process, whether it's an internal customer or external customer. We have a detail process map, captures all the players in the process and where their touch points are. From that aspect, they're comparable. But I think that, once again, they could work together.

Joe: You're saying you can capture the touch points, the front stage actions, the back stage actions, and maybe even some of the support processes. But you're lacking the empathy side. Is that a fair way to say it?

Ben: Yeah. We're capturing reality, regardless of how people feel about it when we're doing an as is process. We're capturing what happens. Now, when we get into analysis and we want to improve the process, that's where having that other map can provide some input possibly. We find out where the hurt points are and that can give us some focus on where we want to make some changes.

Joe: Now, you have a workshop coming up. I think it's October 17th through 19th. Can you tell me about the workshop?

Ben: Well, the workshop is designed for facilitators, people who want to draw process maps and guide teams of people that work on the process to improvement. It's just a couple days so it's a pretty hands-on, intensive course. But we teach people how to map.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems We go through, spend a whole day on drawing process maps. Then we go through a case study, guide a person through the process of setting up the projects, drawing the map for the project, putting together a team, going through analysis, preparing a proposal, and then implementing. It's a lot of material to cover, but it really helps to prepare a person to do this work for themselves.

Joe: When we talk about the team concept in process mapping, is that how a process map should be done? Should we be throwing this up on a big screen and walking through it with a team?

Ben: I prefer not to put it on a screen because you limit what you can see. I've done it that way before and if that's what we have available, that's what we used. But what I prefer to do is print out a map. If you don't have a plotter available to print out a 15 foot or 20 foot long map, you can usually go down to a local Kinko's or something place like that and get one printed pretty easily. You put the entire map on the wall and that way people can walk through it and you focus, when you're doing your analysis you're focused on just one step in one small section of the map, but you can see how it can affect the rest of the map. That's the value you get when you put the whole chart up at once.

Joe: The Ben Graham Corporation, then, is probably just as much about teaching and developing learning atmosphere than it is just about software.

Ben: Absolutely. When we were founded, my grandfather was working for Standard Register back in the '40s when he developed this method. They actually spun him off to start teaching people this method on his own, under his own name, to put it at arm's length from their sales force. They didn't want it to come off as a gimmick. Since 1953, The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems we've been offering training courses in this. The training has naturally led to some coaching and consulting work. The software is a relative newcomer to our mix, but we introduced it in 1990.

Joe: One of the problems I have with software and why, even though I'm somewhat of a geek, I shy away from it a little bit, it's because people think they're going to get a software to solve the problem, but the problem still exists after buying the software.

Ben: Absolutely. We try to impress on people that our software is a tool like Word or Excel, but it's specific for doing processes. When you print out a chart, people tell us, "Well, it's not pretty. I'd like to make this font bigger and I'd like to be able to add these things to it." That's not our purpose. Our purpose is to create a consistent tool that people can use to understand and analyze a process. I encourage them to print it out, to mark it up, to use it as a tool.

The software's not going to solve their problems, but the people who learn how to use it well are. Learning how to use it well as a big part of that for process mapping is learning how to gather the data. Once you've gathered the data, drawing the chart is a relatively simple task.

Joe: What would you like to add that maybe I didn't ask about Ben Graham Corporation or a process mapping?

Ben: Our company has been a pioneer in this field. What we do, our software is based on our methodology. It's the principle tool behind our methodology, but it's really the method, and sticking to the method that helps a person take an improvement project from The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems beginning to end. Knowing how to set up a project, and then making sure everybody's aware of what's going on. Most importantly, this is finally starting to come into the mainstream, but tapping into the experience and ingenuity of the people that do the...essential for a good process. That doesn't mean that they're going to come up with all the ideas, but they know the work, they know the details of every step in a process, far more than a single symbol is going to show.

You'll have to invite IT or developers in or vendors in when the idea is that when it looks like what we need to do is change the way we're doing the work. But you also need to have the experience there to understand what really has to happen to the work in order to get the job done.

Joe: I think this is the reason you've stuck around so long is that you really look at how you change the way people do their work. You look past just putting a product out to that person. You actually work with someone to change the way they do their work. I think that's the key.

Ben: Well, we take the focus off the person and put it on the work. Then we ask them about it. It's just amazing, we often hear about people's resistance to change. I rarely encounter that. The reason is that people aren't so much resistant to change as they are resistant to somebody else telling them how to change. When you include them in the change process, really include them, and take their suggestions to heart. They come up with good ideas; they make the changes, and they buy it. They buy it because it's theirs.

Joe: I think that's a great way to end the conversation. I'd like to thank you very much, Ben. How can someone contact you?

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Ben: The easiest way would be through the website at www.worksimp.com or processchart.com, either one of those will give them information to contact us.

Joe: OK, well, thanks again. This podcast will be available in the Business901 iTunes store and the Business901 blog site. So, thanks again, Ben. Ben: Thank you.

The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901

Business901

Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Business901 Phone: 260-918-0438 Skype: Biz901 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: jtdager@business901.com Website: http://www.business901.com Twitter: @business901

Joe Dager is president of Business901, a firm specializing in bringing the continuous improvement process to the sales and marketing arena. He takes his process thinking of over thirty years in marketing within a wide variety of industries and applies it through Lean Marketing and Lean Service Design.

Visit the Lean Marketing Lab: Being part of this community will allow you to interact with like-minded individuals and organizations, purchase related tools, use some free ones and receive feedback from your peers.

Marketing with Lean Book Series included in membership Lean Sales and Marketing Workshop Lean Service Design Workshop The Granularity of Process Mapping Copyright Business901