The Self, an Indestructible Eternal Element

Questioner: It is not visible.

Dadashri: When we say [the word] ‘sweet,’ what would one see? Actually, the moment you put it in your mouth, you will understand what it is. Therefore, Chetan is something that comes into experience. Where niraakul anand (the bliss of a state that is free of uneasiness and agitation) prevails, where niraakulta (a blissful state free of uneasiness and agitation attained after Self-realization) prevails, that is Chetan. A state of uneasiness and agitation (aakulta-vyaakulta) cannot be Chetan.

Questioner: No matter what stage the Gnani Purush are in, whatever spiritual experience They have had, is that the form that They will be Seeing?

Dadashri: No, it is not like that. How long would that last? As long as one has egoism, until then one will see things as being different. After becoming egoless (nirahamkaari), even if there are ten million egoless people, they would see the eternal element as being of the same type, and if there are a hundred people with egoism, then they would see five hundred types of eternal elements.

Questioner: Whatever form He has Seen, if He attains that eternal element, then would He actually come back?

Dadashri: No, why would He come back after that? This is because, after attaining that eternal element, He would not have any desires. As long as one has desires, all of this commotion will exist.

And all of this, this Vitaraag Vignan (the Science that leads to the absolute state), is worth Knowing. For You, after You get a ‘taste’ of that bliss, then come here the next day and sit comfortably with this [intent of Knowing the Vitaraag Vignan] in mind. Thereafter, You will understand what ‘we’ are saying. If you try to assess It using your intellect, then how would you be able to assess It? ‘This’ is not such a thing [that can be assessed through the intellect]. This is because ‘we’ are without [beyond] the intellect. ‘We’ do not have even an iota of intellect. And as long as the intellect exists, nothing will be understood correctly.

Who Is Pure and Who Is Impure?

Questioner: If ‘I’ am pure Soul, then how did this Chandubhai become impure?

Dadashri: These six eternal elements are indestructible. The temporary states (avastha) arise due to the six revolving around each other.

This Chandubhai, he is the form as the pudgal (the non-Self complex that undergoes influx and outflux), and the developing I (pote) believes ‘I am Chandubhai’; that is why these mistakes keep happening. In reality, that is not one’s Real form. The developing I (pote) has never become impure at all, but it simply has the wrong belief (bhranti) of being impure. This is because You were indeed pure, but it is because of wrong belief that you came to believe, ‘I am this Chandubhai.’ However, relatively speaking, you are Chandubhai. Really speaking, You are the pure Soul, not relatively speaking. Now what You should do is remain only in the ‘really speaking’, and what you had believed yourself to be in the ‘relatively speaking’, that was called egoism. ‘You’ are actually Chetan, nature cannot create You, moreover nature is lifeless (nirjeev). Hence, nature has not created You. ‘You’ are not a ‘creature’ [creation] of nature.

The Insights on the Gita, Through the Perspective of the Gnani

Questioner: ‘You’ said that the genesis of the world is, “Spontaneous (swayam), it has been around since time immemorial.” Then in the Gita, it is written, “The highest

The Self, an Indestructible Eternal Element

abode, where not even the sun or the moon can reach, that is My abode.” So would that abode be beyond the world or would it definitely be within the world?

Dadashri: It certainly is in the world, it is over here [in the Self], where else would it be? You are misunderstanding that. The ones with deviated perspectives (vaanki drashti) will see everything incorrectly. Those with the right belief of ‘I am pure Soul’ (samyak drashti) will See it correctly. When the right belief of ‘I am pure Soul’ arises, then the correct thing will be Seen.

Questioner: There is a very well-known verse, ‘Neither the sun nor the moon illuminates that eternal element [the Self].’

Dadashri: Chetan is actually such that It illuminates the sun itself. Yes, then it says:

“Naasato vidhyate bhaavo, naabhaavo vidhyate satah.” “The relative has no permanence, the Real never ceases to be.”

- Bhagavat Gita, Part 2, Shloka 16

“Asatno bhaav nathi,” means [that which is destructible] has no existence at all. Asat means that which is not an eternal element; there is no existence at all of that over here. And there is no non-existence (abhaav) of the Sat. Sat means eternal element (vastu). That which exists in the past, the present, and the future is called Sat. It remains in existence in all three time periods. That which never undergoes destruction is called Sat, and that which is destructible (vinashi) is called asat. The Gita says, “Those who are tattvadarshi (with complete experience of the Self) conclusively See that ‘this’ is indestructible, and ‘this’ is destructible. That which has pervaded (vyaapt) throughout this entire body, Know that to be indestructible.” “This entire body has been pervaded by the Self.” It is because the Self is present, that this body is in existence [alive]; otherwise, if this Self were to not be present, then the body would not exist, that is what it is trying to say. “No one has the power to destroy that which does not wear away (avyay).” No one has the power to destroy that which is indestructible, that is what the Gita says. Then...

It says, “The Self is permanent (nitya), It is indestructible (avinashi), It is unconfined illumination (aprameya). The bodies of all these embodied souls [that stand before you in the battlefield] are destructible, so oh Arjun, fight this battle.” It is actually in the worldly sense that people die. However, in the Lord’s language, no one dies, nor is anyone born. These bodies are born and these bodies die. Someone can be considered to have died when he has been finished off forever. Whereas here, this arises, then it comes to an end, then it arises again, then it comes to an end.

Questioner: Utpaat (genesis; beginning; creation), vyay (dissipation; coming to an end; destruction) and dhruv (permanence)?

Dadashri: Yes. And the Self has permanence, It remains forever, and the temporary states keep arising and get destroyed; they arise and get destroyed, they arise and get destroyed. The youthful age had come about, hadn’t it? Had it not come about for you? Then it came to an end, didn’t it?

Questioner: Yes, it did.

Dadashri: This old age has arisen. Then it will come to an end, won’t it? All this continues to arise and then get destroyed. “The one who believes the Self to be the killer, or the one who believes the Self to be dead, neither of them understand. This is because it is not possible for anyone to kill this Self. Contrarily, those who believe that It [the Self] is dead, all of those people do not understand