The Properties of Pudgal Parmanu

A pleasant odor that emanates is not a property, it is a phase (paryay) of the pudgal. The pudgal in which there is a pleasant odor also has an unpleasant odor lying within. In every pudgal of the world, both pleasant and unpleasant odors lie within. When a pleasant odor emanates, an unpleasant odor lies dormant within. Oil turns rancid after two months, then it gives off such an unpleasant odor that one would not like the smell of it at all.

Milk that has been delivered at nine o’clock, does not spoil at nine o’clock, but it begins to spoil from that moment onwards. It is dependent on the passage of time. As the time changes, it begins to change of its own accord, and it spoils due to the internal circumstances only.

Someone may ask me, “Are you smelling this flower?” [Then, I would respond,] “‘We’ are in ‘our’ Gnan, and the pudgal is smelling the pudgal.”

Words Are a Phase of the Pudgal

The Parmanu have four types of properties: form, taste, smell, and tactility. Words are not a property of the Parmanu. It is only when the Parmanu collide with each other that words are produced; they are not a permanent property of the Parmanu. What happens when you squeeze [the rubber ball on] a horn?

Questioner: It produces a sound.

Dadashri: Now, why does a sound get produced when you squeeze the rubber ball? This is something you should think about; there are Parmanu in the space inside the rubber ball of the horn; because wherever there is space, there are Parmanu. Now, when you squeeze it like this, the Parmanu are pushed out, and they are pushed out with a force. As they are pushed out, there is friction, so a sound is produced. That is all; this is not a property of the Parmanu.

The Atma means Chetan (the Self), Parmatma (the absolute Self). It is not possible to replicate even a single property of It. Those which can be replicated are properties of the pudgal. Speech is a taped record. Thoughts are a discharge. That which discharges is pudgal.

Questioner: For many years, twenty-four seven, I have been hearing the sound of crickets chirping; what is that?

Dadashri: There are all kinds of sounds (naad), [even] the anaahad naad (the silent sound of the universe that is thought to transcend space and time), they are all pudgal, they fall in the division of the non-Self. When one gets an illness, they stop. Only the ‘string’ of the Self is such that it can come into one’s hands. The ‘string’ of other things cannot come into one’s hands. They may give peace of mind, but one cannot attain Self-realization through them.

The World Means the Changing States of the Pudgal...

Questioner: They do say that the world is destructible (vinashi).

Dadashri: No, no, the world cannot be destructible, can it! The world is eternal, it is everlasting.

Questioner: Isn’t everything besides the Self considered to be destructible?

Dadashri: That which is destructible are actually the temporary states (avastha) that have arisen. This fan that has been built is destructible, but fundamentally, in the form of the eternal element it is made of, it cannot be destructible, can it!

Questioner: Can only the fundamental element be considered as the world? Its original element and its original state, are these considered to be the world?

Dadashri: No. Take, for example, iron. Iron will continue to disintegrate and end up as the original Parmanu. All of this has formed from Parmanu alone. All of these things have been formed from Parmanu. All objects that have formed from Parmanu are destructible, whereas the Parmanu [themselves] are not destructible. Not a single Parmanu decreases or increases in this world. Even if you were to set It on fire or cut It, not a single Atma decreases or increases.

Questioner: The taste, form, smell that are in the Parmanu, are they in the form of a seed, or do they reside as sanskaar (karmic impressions)?

Dadashri: They are not in the form of a seed, there cannot be any seeds in this, can there? There are various temporary states of the Parmanu [that tend to arise] under certain circumstances. When other Parmanu come together, it gives rise to a certain temporary state, when other new ones come together, it gives rise to another temporary state of this kind; all the temporary states keep on changing. From the very same milk, we can make buttermilk, and then use that to make a yoghurt soup, and from the very same milk, we can make a milky rice pudding. The base material is the same, but different forms tend to arise due to different things coming together.

Questioner: Is there any involvement of the power of sanskaar in this?

Dadashri: All this has certainly arisen because of the power of sanskaar, hasn’t it! Otherwise, the pudgal would have been playing about on its own. However, this blood that oozes forth, the bones, the flesh, the pus that forms, is because of the power of sanskaar [vibhaav in this context]. Otherwise, how would blood ooze out of the pudgal? However, there is the power of sanskaar in it, meaning that the Self became involved in it.

To the eyes, a woman may appear to be darkcomplexioned, or she appears in a different way, she appears short, she appears a certain way. How beautiful someone appears to be is all a property of the Parmanu. There is so much energy, and yet nothing of the Self gets used in this. The Self has never gotten wrung out after being washed. Had the Self been wrung out after being washed, then It would have been used up to a certain extent. However, the Self has not been used.

The Difference Between the Effects of the Pudgal and the Effects of the Parmanu...

Questioner: It is written here, “I am telling you once again, so listen. The intents that arise in the antahkaran (the mind-intellect-chit-ego complex), such as attachment and abhorrence, pleasure and pain, are of the non-Self. Taste, smell, and so on, charging karma (bhaavkarma), subtle discharging karma (dravyakarma), and gross discharging karma (nokarma) are effects of the pudgal (pudgal parinaam).” What are all these effects of?

Dadashri: These are all effects of the pudgal. Attachment and abhorrence are effects of the pudgal, pleasure and pain are also effects of the pudgal. Then tactility is also an effect of the pudgal, taste is also an effect, smell is also an effect of the pudgal, then charge karma, subtle discharge karma, gross discharge karma are all effects of the pudgal. These are all effects of the pudgal, that is what the above is conveying.

Everything that is visible to the eyes, heard through the ears, all of that is gross discharging karma. It is all an effect of the pudgal, there is no effect of the Self in this. None of that is an effect of the Self, that is what it is conveying.

Questioner: Form, taste, smell, tactility; these are actually properties of the Parmanu, aren’t they?

Dadashri: That is all considered to be the effects of the pudgal.

Questioner: Actually, in terms of the original Parmanu, the Parmanu that are in the elemental form, these are said to be their permanent properties: form, taste, smell, and tactility.

Dadashri: Yes, but all of that is considered to be the pudgal itself and they are considered its effects. Right now, a person may appear to be red, then blue, then he may appear to have become yellow. Within no time, all of these effects may change, so these are effects of the pudgal.

Questioner: But the properties do not change, do they, Dada?

Dadashri: Yes, so the properties are verily of the Pudgal Parmanu, but these are considered to be effects of the pudgal. These are not the effects of the Self.

Everything else is just unnecessary botheration. Once the two divisions [inanimate matter and the Self] become separate, a conclusion comes about. This is the very thing ‘we’ strive to explain each day to those who have taken Gnan. And to those who have not taken Gnan, ‘we’ explain this point from the very beginning.

Likewise, the phases of the pudgal and the phases of the Pudgal Parmanu are of a different kind. The phases of the pudgal keep on changing; red, yellow, green, all the colors keep on changing; smoothness, warmth, everything [all that which is experienced through the five sense organs] keeps changing. All those phases keep on changing.

The Attributes of the Prakruti, the Inherent Nature of the Prakruti…

The Pudgal has four properties: tactility, form, taste and smell; they [the phases] keep changing. Words are not a property; they are a phase. The form has lustre and all the forms are natural. Whatever properties the Pudgal has, they are inherently natural properties. They are intrinsic properties (anvay guna); they are not vyatirek guna (completely new properties of a third component that arises when the eternal elements of the Self and inanimate matter come together). Whereas these others [anger, pride, deceit, and greed] are actually vyatirek guna. However, words are not even vyatirek guna, they are phases. So, they only arise if we end up ‘squeezing’ [the horn] based on the circumstances.

Questioner: Words, taste, tactility, form, and smell; these five are the properties of which object?

Dadashri: [Hearing] Words is a property of the ear, taste is of the tongue, tactility is of the skin, form is of the eyes, and smell is of the nose.

Questioner: So are the mind, intellect, chit, ego all an effect of the pudgal?

Dadashri: Everything is indeed of the pudgal.

Questioner: And anger, pride, deceit, and greed?

Dadashri: They are all [an effect of the vibhaavik] pudgal, but they are not properties of the [swabhaavik] Pudgal. They can only arise in the presence of the Self, otherwise they would not arise.

Questioner: If they are not the properties of the pudgal, then are the pudgal and the prakruti one and the same?

Dadashri: They are one and the same, there is actually no difference between them.

Questioner: But the prakruti does have attributes, doesn’t it?

Dadashri: It does have attributes, but what kind of attributes? They are all destructible. They are all unstable; it does not take long for them to change.

Questioner: This prakruti can make a mess of things. The prakruti can sabotage everything.

Dadashri: It can become unstable all of a sudden, there is no stability with regards to the attributes of the prakruti! So, we can list out all of the attributes of the prakruti today, but by the next morning, it will show entirely new types of attributes. It is very inconsistent, whereas the properties of the Self are permanent. The properties of the Self that have been established, they all remain eternally.

And there are many kinds of attributes of the prakruti in this world. One may be honest, forgiving, having a high moral conduct; one may have acquired many different types of attributes. People may say, “This is a man worthy of reverence,” but it does not take time for those attributes to come to an end. These are attributes of the pudgal, of the prakruti. Of what use are all these attributes? They are actually attributes of the pudgal, of what use are they [to You, the Self]? Is a ‘chutney’ to be made out of them, afterwards? Because, sooner or later, the attributes of the pudgal will have to be discarded.

Questioner: People try to set the pudgal at a certain state, and You have dismissed all of that in the matter of a moment.

Dadashri: What ‘we’ are saying is that all these worldly attributes such as pity, peace, forgiveness, mercifulness, generosity, and so on and so forth...all those attributes; if people associate such attributes with you, if they say things like, “He is very wise, he has an obliging nature,” then what should You [as the Self] do? Should You deposit them in the bank? If someone were to tell you, “Give me yours and take these,” then should You deposit them in the bank?

Questioner: No.

Dadashri: All of those attributes are destructible, what would You gain by acquiring them? On the contrary, the Lord has gone as far as to say, ‘Do not undertake a lot of effort in trying to acquire these destructible attributes.’ Upon acquiring all these destructible attributes, subsequently if delirium arises, then that very same person will bite others, and curse at others, and throw stones, and speak however he pleases, will he not! Where did all those attributes go? These attributes which exist on the basis of the triguna (the three physiological qualities of the physical body: sattva, rajas, and tamas); as long as the vatta, pitta, and kapha (the three types of dosha that each prakruti is influenced by, they comprise of the five elements of fire, air, water, earth, space in which one or more elements dominate; vatta - air and space, pitta - fire, kapha - earth and water) have not increased disproportionately, these attributes remain as they are. And when all three of them increase disproportionately, delirium arises, and mania ensues! Therefore, come into Your own properties, the properties of the Self; those are permanent, they can never be destroyed, they do not cause delirium.

They [the attributes of the prakruti] are fine from the context of worldly life. What the people of the world are doing is not wrong. This is because those poor people are at that stage. They have not moved from that point at all.

Questioner: But are these attributes really needed in order to become eligible for liberation?

Dadashri: No, there is no need for those attributes, there is a need to be free from the intoxication of the ego and doership (nishkefi). Of what use are those attributes? They are all simply attributes of the prakruti. They are attributes of the pudgal, should they be placed on a pedestal? There is no need for the attributes of the pudgal whatsoever.

Questioner: These attributes would indeed be in the Self, wouldn’t they? They cannot be those of the prakruti, can they?

Dadashri: Anything that can be experienced through the five sense organs does not contain even a single property of the Self.

You [the relative self] are dependent on the prakruti, and the attributes of the prakruti and the properties of the Self are completely different.

People try to derive the essence from the attributes of the pudgal. The essence will never be derived from it.

The very nature of the pudgal is such that everything keeps on changing. ‘You’ should keep on Seeing it. Everything that comes, later leaves. When it leaves, another thing comes. There is no escaping it. When you let go of something that is rough, another thing that is smooth will come. Then, you will also have to let go of the thing that is smooth. And something that is rough comes once again. Its inherent nature is that of puran-galan (to fill in and empty out). So, if a ‘friendship’ is bound with that which is smooth, then there will be trouble! If you ‘befriend’ the other, then that which is smooth will not affect you, will it! Whom should you ‘befriend’? When you come across something that is rough, say, “Yes, now I like it.” And the other [that which is smooth] is something that you are bound to like anyway. So, turn what you don’t like into something that you like. And the Self actually has infinite perspectives, so no matter which perspective you change It [the Knowledge] to and place It on, it will appear that way to it.

A Phase Is an Effect of the Inherent Nature

There is water inside every coconut. Then our [socalled] intelligent people established, “Look here, look at how God has filled water in this! How else would water get inside this?” Their wisdom cannot fathom that! How else would water be entering inside it? So they think that God filled it in there. So they begin to feel love for God. They don’t even know from where God got the water. Surely He must be bringing it from somewhere, from some lake?

Questioner: The coconut trees grow by the seaside, yet the water inside turns out to be sweet. Is water being filled inside it due to the inherent nature? How exactly is it?

Dadashri: It is indeed the inherent nature that is at work in that case. Each thing comes with its inherent nature.

Questioner: Are there so many infinite kinds of inherent nature?

Dadashri: There are as many kinds of inherent nature as there are things.

Questioner: Is there any connection between the infinite phases and the infinite [kinds of] inherent nature?

Dadashri: What does ‘infinite phases’ mean? They are an effect of the inherent nature (swabhaav). For something to rise or to fall, those are all considered phases. A visible object having a particular nature, what is that like? As it [the nature] rises or falls, those are all considered phases.

Questioner: The inherent nature that is visible, be it rising or falling, increasing or decreasing, undergoing change; has that been referred to as a temporary state (avastha)?

Dadashri: Yes, the fact that it [the inherent nature] becomes less intense or more intense, that is called a phase.

Questioner: So depending upon what the inherent nature is at a particular time, that is the temporary state of the inherent nature; is that what You mean to say?

Dadashri: Yes.