CREATING BETTER OUTCOMES with Tina Thomas

We met Tina Thomas for the first time at an event in 2022. We spent some time during the photo shoot, and we got to know the Executive Director of the Edmonton Community Foundation. She is a warm and kind person who has a lot of insight and wisdom into the nature of things.

The interview you are about to read will inspire and motivate you to keep pushing toward your dreams, whatever they may be. We wanted to preserve the authenticity of her words, so we kept them as she sent them to us.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and your educational background.

I am a second-generation Canadian. My parents immigrated to Canada in the 1960s, and I was born in Peace River, Alberta, where my dad was a corrections officer, and my mom was a nurse in the hospital. We then spent a short time in Calgary after my dad got a promotion and finally settled in Edmonton, where I lived from the time I was five to 21 years old.

I grew up in Mill Woods and was there when the neighbourhood and community were developing. Growing up there was an excellent experience for me. It was such a mix of cultures and people even back then. My friends were multi-generational “Canadian” but also Trinidadian, Korean, Polish, Ukrainian, Croatian, Chilean, Filipino and other nationalities. I am generally comfortable with people from all backgrounds because that’s always been normal.

After high school, I went to the University of Alberta and studied business with a focus on International Business and Marketing. I went to England in my third year to study International Business and joined the coop program when I returned. I am sure the only reason I got a job when I graduated – despite only having a general Commerce degree – was because of these experiences.

After graduating from the University of Alberta, I got a job in Ottawa working with Canadian telecom giant Nortel. It was a fantastic experience for me, working for a large multinational at their international headquarters. Their philosophy was to support employee learning and development by encourag- ing people to try new things and move throughout the organization, so I took that philosophy to heart, changing jobs, departments, and divisions every two to three years. Over my 13 years there, I had the chance to work in most areas of marketing and business, from managing the production of an international magazine to working on events for Fortune 50 CEOs, to leading an analytics team and influencing marketing analysts on our market position, to developing the business case and marketing strategy for several industry segments such as hospitality and healthcare.

During my time there, I also completed my Executive MBA from Queen’s University as well as my Certified Management Accountant designation.

After living in Ottawa for 11 years, I had my first child and decided to move home to Edmonton. I continued to work for Nortel remotely for three more years before deciding it was time to leave in 2009. Shortly after leaving Nortel, I started at the Edmonton Public Library as the Director of Marketing, Communications and Fund Development. When I started, EPL’s approach to marketing was siloed. The department played two roles – order taking for print needs from branches and leading initiatives that weren’t aligned with the business goals of the organization. Looking back, I can’t believe how much I tackled in under a year – I restructured the group, hired staff with marketing expertise, implemented a marketing consultant model and started the process of updating the library’s mission and values to inform a complete rebranding that launched less than a year later! After seven years as the director, I took a new role as the Executive Director of Strategy and Innovation, adding research and assessment, technology services, digital services and library services to my portfolio. After a couple of years, I took on the role of Executive Director of Customer Experience, dropping technology but picking up all the library branches. During this time, I also completed my Masters of Library Science at the University of Alabama – adding academic knowledge to my years of experience in public libraries. I really had the opportunity to participate in all areas of library service in the city.

At EPL, the opportunities to innovate, experiment and grow services that Edmontonians needed and wanted were abundant. I was able to lead fabulous pure marketing initiatives, develop EPL’s smart, clever and cheeky brand voice, celebrate EPL’s 100th birthday through a year of activities across the city, lead community consultation for the downtown library, create the Forward Thinking Speaker Series, redesign services for adults, grow fundraising culminating in $18 million raised for the downtown library revitalization, lead the service design for the revitalized Stanley A. Milner Library, create and implement a virtual open house, design and build a teaching kitchen, launch an NFT book and so much more.

Throughout my career, I have worked with and for exceptional female leaders. I was very fortunate to work with and for strong, smart female leaders at EPL – Pilar Martinez, Joanne Griener and Linda Cook – who were deeply committed to my growth and development. From the beginning, each trusted my expertise and ideas and empowered me to partner with them to help implement the changes that would transform the perception and use of Edmonton’s Public Library and turn it into one of the most innovative libraries in North America.

How did you feel back in August 2022 when it was announced that you were now the CEO of ECF?

Nervous and excited. It’s only been just under five months, so I am still equally nervous and excited! I was with EPL for 13 years and hadn’t really thought about leaving. But I knew the opportunity was tremendous – to lead an organization that does so much good work in the community and is viewed positively as both a collaborator and supporter. After 13 years, I also had deep and intimate knowledge of EPL, our services and the needs, so it’s hard to go to a position where you are starting over in many ways. But talking with former CEO Martin Garber Conrad early in the process, read- ing the job profile, and having excellent conversations with the Board as part of the recruitment, made me believe that my skills and experiences could help Edmonton Community Foundation with its next chapter. of the past in Edmonton’s workplace? While I have certainly experienced overt and subtle racism personally and professionally, my own experience is that being a woman is often the more challenging thing to overcome. For example, I have experienced the gender pay gap both in direct comparison to men doing the same job as myself as well as working in a feminized sector. ed at a lower rate.

Who were your heroes? Who are your heroes?

Tell us about your personal work ethic.

Similarly, my dad left a very good government job in India to start over in Canada, first working stocking shelves at Woodward’s and then working his way up from a correctional officer to the first person of colour to be the Director of an Alberta Correctional Institution and the founding Director of the Solicitor General Court and Prisoner Security Division. On top of being hardworking and dedicated, they also modelled generosity and community-mindedness in every way. They helped build the first Indian Orthodox Church here in Canada. They also donated to important local and national charities. My mom was a regular volunteer at my school; my dad was a lifelong volunteer for numerous organizations. They were thrifty when spending on things for themselves or us, but generous with people in need. They prioritized travel over possessions. With parents like this, who else could be my heroes?

As an Asian woman, would you agree that hard work trumps sexism or that sexism is a thing

When I worked in telecommunications – a sector with a large proportion of people of color but very few women – my salary was the lowest in my department - Twice! Only because a female leader knew and advocated for me was my salary raised the first time (a $30K increase in one period), and only after I found out and left a job to take another did it change the second time. Salary has never been my primary motivator, and I believe some studies show women complain less about their salary and negotiate less. That was true for me. But salary is undoubtedly a demotivator when you are performing at the top and find out your pay is not on par with people performing much worse. I think this happens to women more than men.

Similarly, if I look at the responsibilities, reach and impact of organizations like the public library and then at the pay provided for that work, it is much lower than similar public or non-profit organizations, let alone the private sector. Like teaching, nursing, and other more feminized professions, I think the root of this is believing that work primarily done by women is “less” and can be compensat-

There are a couple of things I firmly believe. First, motivation must come from within. I am entirely self-motivated. I am a reflection of my work and, as such, will do what I need to do to make sure it represents me. I have never needed a supervisor to challenge or pull me along. Similarly, I see my job as a leader is to create opportunities for people, take barriers away, be open to ideas, give feedback and support people where they need it. It’s not to motivate them. I want to reduce the things that will demotivate, but motivation must come from within.

Second, I believe in the value of conscious disagreement. My views were formed while doing my MBA at Queens. Individuals were given a personality test at the start of the program and teams were created to maximize diversity. The best results come when people with different perspectives work on something together and challenge each other to think differently. This also maximized the potential for conflict. The teams that could best navigate disagreement and differences had the strongest results. More recently, as part of the Roy Groups Leadership Discipline, I was struck by the learning that it’s better to be helpful than nice. That is, people don’t want a cheerleader; they want a coach. They want honest feedback to help them get better. I don’t want anyone to blindly agree with me and I don’t want to do that for others. Our job as a team working together is to review each others’ ideas and work and challenge each other to make it better. It’s not about finding flaws but creat- ing a better outcome.

Finally, I have always been open to opportunities. I have never had a five-year, let alone a one-year plan. Instead, I have been open to opportunities and examined them as they have come along. This allowed me to change positions, departments, and technologies while at Nortel so that when I finally left, I had a very broad base and take strong steps forward. My perspective on “how” is likely different from some common voices being heard today.

“For example, I am very conscious of practices and language that position women or people of colour in deficit. While it may be well-intended, the outcome is the same as overt racism or sexism – it implies that women or people of colour are “less than” and, without help, will not succeed. Instead of thinking of what we do for women, new immigrants or people of colour in isolation, I want to think about how to rethink/shape systems and processes so that we reduce” barriers for everyone.”

Is the world for women?

I don’t think we are there yet. I think the world is better because of women and many issues will be resolved and opportunities realized with more women in leadership and positions of influence. This is because the best work comes when diverse views and experiences are represented. But I do think women are still at the bottom of every issue.

of skills. That base helped me secure a job in the public sector. I would have never dreamt of working in the public library but being open to that allowed me to expand my experiences, enter a new industry and eventually move into an executive leadership role. I was comfortable at EPL and could have happily stayed there, but being open to change allowed me to move into a CEO role with another vital city institution.

ECF is apolitical - is there a future for you in politics?

Not a chance.

In terms of supporting diversity, would you say community foundations like ECF are doing just fine?

Is anyone doing just fine? Of course, every organization can do more – some more than others –and I am confident ECF will continue to be a leader in our approach

Similarly, I want to see ECF and organizations like ours continue to support organizations and issues led by and for groups that have traditionally had fewer opportunities, like women and people of colour. At the same time, I also want to diversify our donor base so that the people championing and supporting the many important causes in our city, better reflect the community we live in and serve.

What books are you reading right now?

I just finished Atomic Habits by James Clear and Dear Edward by Ann Napolitano. I just started The Girl You Left Behind by Jojo Moyes and The Girl Who Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill.

The female BIPOC voice is still yet to peak in this city, does this keep you up at night? It doesn’t keep me up at night, but as a mother of two beautiful brown girls and aunt to many more, I do continually think about how I am contributing to changing this.

I read an article where Ava DuVernay spoke about how she was able to give many people – women and people of color for example – important roles working in film when she had the chance to direct Selma. She was able to do that because her circle of knowledge and acquaintances was very different from people who typically direct films. I think sometimes the limitations and barriers people face are not purposefully racism or sexism or anything else, but instead a reflection of how our own personal perspectives and knowledge influence the decisions we make. I think that’s one of the main reasons why women, and women of color in leadership positions, is an important step in building true diversity. We will come, and we will bring other people to the table who are equally, or more, qualified.

“Shattering the glass ceilings” is a popular term, what “glass ceilings” would your tenure be known for?

Every group I have led has tended to eventually have more women and more women of color represented. At one point the communications team at EPL was Indian, Filipino, Ecuadorian, Portuguese/ Indian and Vietnamese women. This isn’t a purposeful strategy – anyone who I have worked for or with, knows I have very high standards and expect a lot from my teams. I hired them because they were the strongest people for the jobs. I think women and people of color are more likely to apply for jobs when they see someone like me in a leadership role. I also think I have taken an active role in encouraging and supporting women and women of color around me – because I believe in them and because so many people have similarly supported me.

I remember there was an opening for a manager role at EPL and a woman of color, who was one of the senior staff, did not apply. I reached out to her and asked her why. Her answer was that she thought she needed more time to develop all the skills needed for the role. I told her that while there were certainly things she would learn, she was ready for the job. I also asked her if she thought any man with her background and experience would hold themselves back based on the limitations she saw? She thought about it, applied, and successfully won the competition; not because she was a woman or a woman of color, but because she was the most qualified person, and she just needed the encouragement to go for it. Am I going to go out of my way to encourage, support and challenge women to take risks, try things and have more confidence themselves? Absolutely.

Like most women, I always have that voice inside my head telling me someone is better, or I am going to fail. Thankfully I have had colleagues, leaders and supporters who helped dampen that voice and pushed me to move forward. I hope I can continue to do that for others.

What do you do for your mental health?

I exercise regularly, walk, bike, hangout with friends, watch TV, read – many of the things that most people do.

The Prime Minister of New Zealand resigned - can women have it all?

I think everyone can “have it all” but you likely can’t have it all at the same time. Years ago, I read a great article with a similar title – Why Women Can’t Have it All – by Anne Marie Slaughter who worked in the Obama White House as a director in policy planning. At the time my daughters were young and I was working long hours at EPL. I resonated with much of what it said, which was basically that working women feel guilty about struggling to manage a job and being present for their children, while moms who stay at home feel guilty about not using their education and skills to their fullest capacity.

While I felt (and still feel) guilty about the things I missed out on, I also understood the importance and need for female role models of working women using our education and experiences. I can’t complain about women having fewer opportunities, help change the problems women face, or model the examples I want my daughters, nieces and nephews to see, if I am not participating myself.

Is your job everything?

No. Of course not! I love working because it is a great intellectual outlet. I am creative, analytical, curious, and hardworking. Work allows me to do something with that energy. But I am sure I would find ways to expend that energy even if it wasn’t at work. (Whenever I say this, my friends and family roll their eyes.) I was just as passionate about the value of metro fiber optic networks as I was about book programs for babies, as I now am about the value of endowments to help transform the non-profit sector. I will be passionate about whatever I do, or perhaps I wouldn’t do something if I couldn’t be passionate about it!

Do you still like dark chocolate? Forever.