11 minute read
Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
Dear Navidaters,
I am engaged to a girl who comes from a well-known family in our big community.
I think the problem is we only went out for a month and a half, but I did not know what I was getting into when it comes to her family. Her parents dictate the way they want things, what they want their kids to do, how they want the wedding to be, and my family must adhere to all of it with no questions asked. I knew my kallah, Malka*, did not have the closest relationship with them, but what I did not know was that she was so intimidated by them that she cannot say no. She feels obligated to them and expects me to go along with everything without having a say. What in the world do I do? I am second-guessing spending my life attached at the hip to this family.
Thanks
Naftali*
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
Naftali, this must feel very scary to you right now, and rightfully so. Although it is normal for issues to come up between the families during an engagement and cause strain on the couple’s relationship, you are seeing deeper issues. Your kallah seems to be unwilling to assert herself as an independent person. Her parents seem controlling and in power as they are big players in the community. These are two serious issues.
Get yourselves to professional help quickly. Share what is going on with your mentor(s). See if Malka understands herself and her reaction patterns to her parents and other strong people. Determine if your kallah understands the dynamics of how this is affecting your relationship with her and with them. Then, together with your support team, the professional and the mentors, you will have to make a decision about whether you want to marry her.
You will do some soul searching and growing yourself along the way. And this will be a good thing before you make the biggest adult decision in your life.
Hatzlacha.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
As I am sure the other panelists will address the toxicity that seems to be emanating from this family, I would like to comment on another part. The other part I would like to address is getting to know the person, and the family, that you are marrying into. I have had people ask me, “Do I have to wait until I’m engaged to get to know his/her family?” My answer is always the same: “No!” You can get to know his/her family as soon as you feel comfortable. Do you see this shidduch going somewhere? Go for a Shabbos, stay by a neighbor, and get to know the family dynamic. Some people claim that it is way too premature. I say, if a couple is going out and it’s veering in a positive direction, and the other side is claiming it is premature to get to know the families, dig deeper.
As for your case, Naftali, Hashem had ordained the situation to be as it is for a reason but that does not mean you shouldn’t get help. Take your kallah and go for premarital counseling. It is so common these days that it’s almost a given. Speak to the therapist about your particular concerns, and (s)he, along with your Rav, can help guide you through these difficult scenarios. You must also be very open and honest with Malka about how you are feeling. It would be a whole different ballgame if she agreed with your assessment and came up with a game plan to make sure your relationship is your own, separate from her parents.
I would also like to address parents and families.
Do you have a child in the parsha? Take a look at yourselves – the good, the bad, and the ugly. Take assessment of the things you can work on as a family to make yourselves “a marriageable family.” We are not talking about if you give the most tzedaka, have your name on buildings, or are on the board of every organization. As this letter as a testament, we see that when your child gets married, you will be agreeing to merge families, sort of a marriage in and of itself. Agreeing to marry your child off is also agreeing to share your child with someone and meld worlds. It is not a one way street where only you call the shots. Agreeing to marry your child off is agreeing to be mevater on things. These things might even seem very important to have done “your way” but will make a world of a difference for shalom bayis.
Don’t be the reason your child’s chosson or kallah runs the other way. Be the reason they not only want to marry into your wonderful family but actually opt to come for Shabbos.
The Single
Rivka Weinberg “So, does your family do weekly Sunday BBQs or is it the type that you all only gather together at simchas once in a while?” This question was once asked to me by a boy whose rebbi insisted on bochurim knowing the answer to it before a relationship progressed.
Many people say that a person is marrying another individual and not necessarily that individual’s family as well. While I agree with that idea to an extent, I believe it’s important to know whether you are marrying into a “Sunday BBQ” family or an “occasional simchas” family. Naftali, it sounds to me like you are headed into a strongly connected and intense “Sunday BBQ” family, and while that can be beautiful, like everything in life, there are positive and negative impacts.
With regard to the wedding, I think you should leave that up to yours and Malka’s parents to figure out. I don’t see any positive impact of a chosson and kallah getting involved in the stress and drama that occurs when two different families join together to make a simcha. If need be, a rav can intervene to help smooth the process and work things out. As a chosson, you should play your proper role in the simcha and encourage your kallah to do so as well.
What I believe to be the main focus here is your concern about spending your life attached at the hip to Malka’s family. I would be interested to hear more about the depth of your relationship with
Malka and how you were able to get engaged without her communicating to you how intimidated she is by her family. My gut reaction is to wonder whether you know the real genuine Malka, or if you are familiar with a fearful version of her. Are there other major worrisome pieces of information you are not currently privy to which will unfold as you start your life together? The two of you should have an open and honest conversation about the type of lives you each want to live and the practical vision accompanied by that. Where do you see yourselves and how much of a role would you each like your families to play? If Malka wants to be attached to her family and has no interest in going elsewhere, you may want to consider what that is going to look like for you in the long term and how that will play out.
Although this may be a taboo topic, based on the lashon you used to describe Malka’s family as “wellknown” in your “big community,” I wonder how much financial support they will be providing to you in the future. Again, we revert back to positive and negative impacts of our choices. While being financially supported by Malka’s family may
sound appealing to many, the negative impact is that her family can continue to “dictate” and “obligate” you in various areas. If that is the case, you may want to think of a different plan in terms of parnassa to release some of this “power” you feel her family has over you.
I encourage you to have a serious conversation with Malka and daven to Hakadosh Baruch Hu to gain clarity and allow yourself to make the decision you feel is right.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
This is not a good situation.
Your dilemma underscores The Navidaters how very, very important it is for couples to spend a lot of time with each other’s families before getting engaged.
The problem is a lot more serious than simply having in-laws who merely insist on controlling every aspect of a five-hour wedding. (For example: There is a possibly true story told about Rav Pam, zt”l. One of his students was getting married, and asked the rabbi, “What is our proper custom? I saw that at the wedding of one of your daughters, you and your wife escorted the kallah down the aisle and the chosson was escorted by his mother and father; at the wedding of another one of your daughters, both mothers escorted the kallah, and both fathers escorted the chosson.”
Rav Pam answered, “My custom is to agree with whatever the in-laws want.”)
Unfortunately, it seems clear that even after the wedding your kallah’s family will still be very hands-on, overwhelming, and in tight control of every aspect of your life. For many husbands, this would not be an acceptable situation.
Ask yourself: *Will you be relying on your in-laws for parnassa (even for just a few years) or are you completely self-sufficient financially? *Will you be living near them, or will you and your kallah be able to move far away? *Does the kallah have brothers-in-law who enjoy autonomous lives, independent of their domineering ilies with incredible status or wealth believe that they have
in-laws?
Perhaps you should consult with a therapist or rav. But, prepare to dis-engage.
If you do cancel the engagement, then, in the future, make sure to spend a lot more time not only with potential mates but also with their
Pulling It All Together
Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists families.
Devery right to “call ear Naftali, the shots.” And
I’m going to keep my answer more clarity as to Mal- young adult children short and sweet. You have valid ka’s readiness to shift her struggle to assert their indepenreason for concern. Malka may be priorities from her parents to dence because often the price is the most incredible woman in the you. There shouldn’t be a con- too high. Children may stand to world, but her relationship with her flict of interest when it comes to be cut off financially and or emoparents will most likely impact you parents and spouses. When every- tionally. in a variety of ways. I strongly sug- one understands the natural order The most important thing right gest that you and Malka see a cou- of priorities – spouse, then children, now for you to figure out is Malka’s ples therapist who does premarital then parents – couples can enjoy a readiness to assert herself, if need therapy. There are some issues you healthy relationship with parents be. What would Malka do if you’ve need to discuss together and learn and in-laws. When the priorities are made plans for dinner but suddenmore about. A therapist will help not respected, and parents believe ly she is told to cancel and join the facilitate very important conversa- their married child’s priority must family BBQ? What if you want to tions surrounding Malka’s family be “them,” this naturally causes spend Pesach with your family one involvement in your lives once mar- problems for the young couple. year, and her family insists you ried. You will also hopefully gain Unfortunately, sometimes fam- come away with them because “this is what we’ve always done and we expect this to continue”? I think you may benefit from more clarity.
Malka needs to know how you feel. And you need to know if Malka takes your feelings to heart and what, if anything, she is willing to work on. This will show you her ability to compromise and be flexible. Those are very important qualities for your teammate in life to have.
Invite her to a premarital therapy session...and see where it takes you. If Malka shows no ability to compromise, or hear you, or make changes to make you feel comfortable, you will have to take that into account while you make your decision.
All the best, Jennifer
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
