Mann, LCSW

Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Navidaters,

I would like to discuss a topic that might be difficult for people to read, but nonetheless is an important one for both singles and married people alike.

Recently, there has been a lot of buzz about smoking weed (marijuana) in the frum community. Many rabbonim are trying to stop it from happening at shuls and kiddushim. In some communities, there are even massive ads and lots of money being poured into prevention. I, for one, have been at many a L’chaim where men are doing weed, both singles and married men, fathers. This concerns me in a deep way as I have a close relative who died at a very young age due to overdose but it all started with drinking.

Many advise singles to ask the question, “Does he smoke” to references, but nobody addresses drinking, which is usually the way guys get into these things to begin with. Wine and hard liquor are given out by ba’alei simcha like a candyman gives out candy. Why are people addressing the weed problem but not addressing the drinking problem? And how is a guy who drinks on Shabbos any better than someone who does weed?

Alex

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

Thank you, Alex, for bringing up these two communal issues in the Dating Dialogue. Drinking and use of marijuana do impact dating but they are much broader and deeper problems in the Orthodox Jewish world. I will, therefore, limit myself to a few remarks.

Both drinking and the use of weed are being addressed in the community and in schools for quite some time. It may not be visible to all, however. High school and post-high school institutions of learning for young men across the religious spectrum are talking about it, bringing in trained professionals, and holding formal and informal sessions to address the issue of substance abuse and addictive behaviors. Family members and addicted people of all ages and stages access 12-step programs and individual therapy privately. Frum people disappear for a while and go into in-patient rehab centers. Some come back and talk about it in special environments.

Sometimes, young people are given “shock treatment,” so to speak, after someone in their circle has died from an overdose. This can take the form of actually viewing the person who passed away, learning the facts about alcohol poisoning, and watching someone suffer in the throes of the withdrawal stage. All forms of popular Jewish media feature real life stories of addiction and its familial and health destruction.

Addressing the source of the pain of the individual is seeking to alleviate with addictive substances for short term pleasure is a big challenge, however. S/he needs to confront himself or herself and seek help.

That is not easy to do. It’s easy to fall into the trap of self-medication, especially when there is socialization and availability. Just saying no won’t do it. There is a lot of work to do; therapy and spirituality are the recommended antidotes to personal pain. They take a lot of work, not to mention time. It’s hard for everyone, especially young people. Committing is not as easy as self-medicating with available substances.

Availability is not a challenge. Recreational use of cannabis is now legal in at least 15 states, including New York State which legalized the substance at the end of March. High end liquor is also a status symbol in frum communities. You are right. We are going to have to rise to personal and community challenges of substance abuse in a more systemic and public fashion.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

You are asking a fantastic question and, unfortunately, a very relevant one. I believe unequivocally that any guy or girl who smokes weed is not a mature candidate for marriage. Nor do I believe that any guy or girl who habitually gets drunk is a candidate for marriage. Note that I used the term, “gets drunk,” because the mere act of drinking wine is not inherently an escape behavior. Drinking wine with caution is part of our tradition as frum Yidden. Obviously, this is only if one does not have a disposition to addictions in general. In those cases, one would be advised to drink grape juice and not touch alcohol at all. This is especially true regarding someone who has a genetic predisposition to addictions. One cannot compare a typical person who has a l’chaim once a week and kiddush wine on Shabbos to smoking weed once or twice a week, and here is why. Doing drugs is escape behavior and so is getting drunk (unlike having one l’chaim on Shabbos and kiddush wine). This is why people do not ask on shidduch calls, “Does he drink a l’chaim on Shabbos?” A more appropriate question to ask is, “Does he get drunk?”

Both drugs and getting drunk are done to numb the pain of living a reality that is too painful for a person to live with. One might start socially or because of peer pressure, but over time, it becomes a way to escape reality. It becomes a way to avoid working on oneself, talking to a doctor about mental health issues, or dealing with life head-on.

Marijuana has recently become legal in many states and is being used by young men and women as habitual social behavior to escape reality and numb the pain of living real life.

When I was a kid, there was a commercial that illustrated a man cracking an egg into a frying pan. He held up the egg and compared it to a person’s brain. He then cracked the egg and fried it and exclaimed that this is what happens to your brain when you do drugs. On the bottom of the screen it said, “Think twice before you do marijuana or heroin.” I tried googling this commercial 1,000 different ways, and it seems to be the only thing ever in the media that is not on YouTube (I wonder why?). But

Alcoholism is a disease.

I promise, this was a regular commercial on TV when I was growing up in the ‘90s.

I recall as a child being confused. Drugs? Like Tylenol or Advil? Quickly writing down that strange word “marijuana,” which I had pronounced as it was spelled, I went to my parents asking what it meant, and they told me. It was described as a dangerous substance that people use to escape reality which kills the brain cells, distorts the brains of youth who try it, and stunts brain growth especially in adolescents and youth in a very substantial way.

Unfortunately, these drugs are becoming more and more common, albeit not as common (yet) as drinking. Which brings me to your last question: why are people making more of a big deal about weed than drinking? The answer, in my opinion, is the following. Unfortunately, as you have illustrated, excessive drinking is commonplace in the frum world. Weed has not gotten to that extreme yet; which is why people in the frum world are moving mountains to try and prevent it from becoming another “frum pandemic.”

Thanks for asking a great question. Never stop asking!

The Single

Rivka Weinberg

I’m sorry to hear that a close relative of yours passed away due to overdose. I agree with you that, unfortunately, alcohol and drugs are severe issues in our community that must be taken seriously. I’m not belittling your concern; however, I disagree with you that “nobody addresses drinking.” Baruch Hashem, there are various wonderful organizations in the community that work tirelessly to tackle this issue, including Amudim and JACS. It’s important that we show our hakaras hatov to these programs that create events and fundraisers to raise awareness and help those who are struggling in our community. I would also like to point out that a guy who drinks on Shabbos is not any better than someone who does weed, so I’m not entirely sure who determined that and what leads you to believe it. I grew up in a home where alcohol was just seen on Pesach, so my only other exposure was in shul. Now, this leads me to kiddush clubs: the great Jewish phenomenon. Who decided that on Shabbos after shul, or even sometimes during laining, men must consume alcohol weekly in front of their wives and children? We wonder why we have these problems in our community, but we frequently forget that from a young age many kids are introduced to these substances in the very same place we tell them to go to speak to Hashem. We are setting our children up for failure by turning a makom kadosh into a drinking fest. I’ve always wondered why people display their alcohol proudly in their dining rooms, while their sefarim and gedolim pictures are hidden away in the study. What kind of message is that sending to our impressionable young ones?

Now, I know, some people will argue and say, “But there’s so much kedusha that can come from alcohol, don’t you know how leibidig a person can become?” To that, I respond, yes, there is a time and place for everything, and as my father always says, everything in moderation. As Jews, we believe in elevating the mundane, and if used appropriately, that can be done with alcohol as well. However, it’s too late for that. As a community, we have already set the wrong tone around alcohol which has unfortunately trickled into drugs, too.

Personally, I don’t know enough about the weed problem, but if I had to guess, the higher emphasis placed on it is due to the fact that it’s newer. Regardless of what the reason is, it’s important to stress that a girl should not date a boy who is associated with these substances if she is uncomfortable with them. She should not assume that he will merely stop or change, because that’s not as simple as it sounds.

To clarify – I am not condoning such behavior, in fact, I think it’s disgusting and irresponsible. If this is an issue that girls face in shidduchim, it’s vital for them to be aware of the potential impact it has on a family.

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Your letter touches on several interesting topics.

What is legal?

Government has re-discovered the truth codified in the Talmud 2,000 years ago: “Do not make laws that the people will not obey.”

The United States recognized this truism in the 1930s when they repealed laws outlawing the sale of alcohol. More recently, many states are now legalizing marijuana, after realizing that it is fruitless to criminalize a product that is so widely available and used. And legislators now have dreams of collecting huge tax revenues from the legal sale of marijuana.

What is acceptable?

We must remember that in our religion, drinking wine (or alcohol) is not only allowed but is even required for making kiddush, or performing the Pesach seder, a bris, or the blessings under the chuppah. Rashi was a wine merchant. The Talmudic Rav Pappa was a beer manufacturer. Libations of wine were essential to services in the Temple.

Of course, it is clear that individuals have different reactions to wine and alcohol. Accordingly, some folks prefer grape juice over wine on Friday night; and, while some rabbis in the Talmud prohibited drinking wine before rendering halachic decisions, others remarked that a little wine helped sharpen their minds before rendering halachic decisions.

Clearly, overindulging is reprehensible. Driving while impaired is illegal. Intoxication is not only morally repugnant but is also halachically unacceptable. For example, Temple Kohanim and Beis Din judges are prohibited from serving while intoxicated.

In light of all this, I am absolutely astonished when I hear some rabbis claim that it is a halachic requirement to get drunk on Purim!

Note that medical marijuana is a godsend and absolutely essential for the well-being of many ill individuals. It remains to be seen whether legal, recreational marijuana will now cause problems similar to alcohol intoxication.

Note that marijuana is usually taken via smoking, and, thankfully, smoking has already been properly stigmatized in our community. But, marijuana can also be ingested. I would hate to see marijuana-laced cookies served along with alcohol at a kiddush.

What should we do?

In our schools, media outlets, and pulpits, we must, of course, discourage and condemn substance abuse.

Singles should watch out for warning signs. Consider it a serious red flag if your date: *Suggests ordering alcoholic cocktails instead of coffee or Diet Coke in a hotel lobby. *Knows which martinis produce the “best buzz.” *Orders a few beers at a baseball game. *Discusses which brand of marijuana is the most potent. *Has a family history of alcohol abuse or drug addiction.

Thank you for writing to us with interesting questions. Notice that I do not offer to salute you with a highly inappropriate l’chaim.

Who decided that on Shabbos after shul, or even sometimes during laining, men must consume alcohol weekly in front of their wives and children?

Pulling It All Together

The Navidaters dren sends the have a problem with alcohol or drugs, Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists message that it is OK for the there are many wonderful resources for you. My second year internship children to do so. at Adelphi School of Social Work was It can be incred- at Tempo Group, an outpatient rehab ibly harmful and for addicted individuals and their damaging for chil- families right here in Woodmere, NY.

Dear Alex, dren to be exposed. They provide a thorough assessment

Thank you for writing into marijuana abuse. When Grownups often be- of the individual and his/her family our column! You are raising a very alcohol or marijuana are come sloppy and messy, and this members and then offer one on one important issue impacting so many taken in larger amounts and can be scary for a child. Unless and group therapy for the individupeople across all races and cultures, for longer periods of time than there is an adults-only shul, I just al and the family. You are not alone! and we are not the exception. Alco- originally intended, a persistent don’t think its OK to get sloppy or And there is help! And you have abhol and drug abuse is rampant, and desire but inability to cut down, con- high in shul. Oftentimes, addicts stop solutely nothing to be ashamed about! the emotional impact of Covid-19 had siderable time spent try to obtain al- taking their children to shul, because When it comes to dating, I would even more people turning to the bot- cohol or marijuana, cravings, failure they don’t want the responsibility of say the following. If you abhor or tle (both alcohol and pill) as well as to function in daily life, and a devel- the children. Adults can do as they detest alcohol or marijuana, do not marijuana. Though I do not have an oping tolerance are some of the tell- please. My concern is the children. marry someone who uses it. If it expertise in addiction, I have seen the tale signs of an abuse disorder. Along Alcoholism is a disease. The peo- makes you uncomfortable, stay away. devastating impact of drug and alco- with the use of alcohol and/or weed ple who have this disease are not bad This is because you can never change hol abuse on individuals and their come some very unsettling behaviors people. They are not weak or lazy or your partner. If a person is going to families. I have seen it ravage mar- such as denial and rationalization. A any other negative label associated stop, it is going to be because he or riages. And when men come stum- person will deny having a problem with it. People who abuse alcohol or she wants to. You can cry, beg, plead, bling home, drunk and/or high from until the cows come home and then marijuana for that matter are often spill the alcohol out of the bottles and shul or their house-to-house kiddush turn the tables on loved ones and pro- some of the most beautiful, sensi- offer them all the help in the world. hopping, they are often met by dis- vide rationalizations and excuses for tive, and wonderful people who are As with everything when it comes to appointed, hurt and angry wives as their substance abuse. Being a family highly empathic and feel everything. dating, make sure you fully accept they try to keep the family happily member of an addict is, oh, so very Sometimes, we go through pain- everything before you walk down waiting for Daddy. I know firsthand painful and lonely and devastating. ful life events or are living in active the aisle. People make changes when how this affects couples in our Jewish A vast majority of the men that trauma or recovering from trauma, they are ready, and when a loved one community. you refer to in your email most likely and people turn to alcohol or drugs can’t stop, it doesn’t mean he/she

Firstly, I believe that the alcohol do not have a substance use disorder. because they work. They provide an doesn’t love you or is choosing the problem is being addressed. Many They are making a l’chaim and enjoy- escape. Some of the most beautiful substance over you. It means he has shuls have gone completely dry. ing hanging with the guys after a hard people I have ever met are recovering an addiction. There might be “weed buzz” now be- week. However, handfuls of these addicts. Not only are they sensitive This is a very touchy subject and cause marijuana has been legalized men in every shul do. (P.S. This is not souls, they have taken ownership and a family paper, so I have chosen to in many states and will now be even just a problem for men. Women are responsibility for their lives and are leave out some information about lemore accessible and acceptable to more likely to drink and smoke mar- typically committed to their person- gal usage of alcohol and marijuana in everyone. Perhaps the community ijuana in the privacy of their homes al growth. No excuses. They are a moderation on purpose. Please unis trying to get in front of it as pre- and, due to the stigma and shame of breath of fresh air. derstand that I have done the best I vention. The legalization of alcohol a Jewish woman not engaging in such It will be interesting to watch the could to answer this question, taking is very old news…. activities, are probably less likely to legalization of marijuana unfold. into account sensitivity to the read-

Everyone will have a different get help.) People who want to smoke have al- ership and the paper. Again, thank opinion about what is “acceptable,” I do have a strong opinion about ways found a way to smoke. There you, Alex for this important question. and I certainly don’t want to start or adults losing control with substances are people who are capable of enjoyengage in a debate by giving a per- in front of children, and I will speak ing alcohol or marijuana in modersonal opinion. What I am certain up about that. Smoking weed or ation, and there are people who are of is the definition of alcohol and drinking excessively in front of chil- not. If you, the reader, think you may Sincerely, Jennifer

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.