Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW

Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Navidaters,

I have been going out with a wonderful girl several times now and we’re starting to get serious. The problem is I need to disclose a very “scandalous/bad” issue within my family. It’s not the usual parents are divorced and don’t talk or siblings off the derech type thing. It is actually very serious and uncommon. Overall, what is the general rule of thumb in terms of how many dates to wait until major issues need to be disclosed?

Thank you.

Yaakov*

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Lisa Babich

Thank you for your question. I think different circles have different “rules” as to when you are “supposed” to share these things. I personally believe in developing an organic relationship with someone. As you feel comfortable and safe and your feelings start to grow, usually you start to open up with the person you are dating. It’s one of the most bonding things you can do as a couple who is getting to know each other and can bring a tremendous amount of closeness and add a lot of depth to the relationship.

We all have something to share, and your family background is part of the story that made you who you are. Whoever is going to marry you is going to see you in your entirety. I would suggest that, as you feel safe with her, let her know that there is a part of your story that you want her to know. You can explain how that has shaped you into the person you are today. I think you will be surprised to see that the right one is going to listen to your story with an open and compassionate heart. If you are a good person then she will see that in your vulnerability, and the experience can make you much closer.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

Thank you for writing in with this question; it is more common than you think.

Many people are walking around with untold stories; these are chapters of people’s lives going completely undisclosed. That is, of course, until you bring someone new in. Some may subconsciously not let anyone in, in fear that their secrets will be exposed. Some may get to the finish line and then abruptly end it when anxiety creeps in.

My first suggestion based on your background is to work with a therapist to make sure you are healthy-husband material. There are too many singles these days who are dating who shouldn’t be. Traumatized, un-workedthrough children become traumatized un-worked-through adults who then become trauma-inducing, un-workedthrough spouses.

You should know, I have seen many single men and women get married whose families have had less than stellar backgrounds. If you try hiding it, no matter how one tries to cover up dirt, often the debris linger right below the surface. Your date will know after a while of getting to know you that you are holding back.

The true test to your relationship will be opening up about those skeletons in the closet and see if she will embrace your relationship nonetheless. To cross the finish line, you will have to be vulnerable and open up about your background.

The time to do this is different for everyone. For the more yeshivish who get engaged very quickly, it might be early on, at about date 4 or 5. For the more modern who date for a while, the right time might be after getting to know each other for a month or so. Tell the girl you are dating when things feel right. Trust me – you will know when your relationship has reached the right time.

Hatzlacha with everything!

The Single

Rivka Weinberg

Yaakov, this is an extremely important and common question, so thank you for writing in. As we go through life, we need to keep in mind that each person we meet has a story and has overcome specific challenges that make up who he or she is today. Hakadosh Baruch Hu put us all in certain situations and has provided us the tools to navigate them and grow throughout the process. With that said, when it comes to sharing information about your personal journey, I suggest you speak with your rav or mentor to understand when the appropriate time is to disclose it.

Bear in mind that you are being vulnerable, which inherently is overwhelming and scary, but is the key to successfully building a healthy and enduring relationship. Her reaction to you sharing your experiences will say a tremendous amount about her. Does she respond with empathy and ask kind and compassionate questions to try and understand your hardships? Do you feel comforted and heard? Or, is she asking specific unnecessary details about the situation in a judgmental way to get the hock?

Listen to your gut and be honest with yourself about how her reply makes you feel. If you are unsettled, remember this is the person you may be spending the rest of your life with, and ultimately there will be curveballs thrown at you in the future, so you are seeing a preview of how she will handle situations going forward. Vulnerability is crucial to building a relationship, so as awkward or uncomfortable as it may be, the benefits certainly outweigh all of the short-term discomfort involved.

In general, understanding and accepting that each individual has faced challenges, ranging across various degrees of difficulty, allows for additional possibilities in shidduchim and open doors you did not realize were possible. Of course, it is important and highly recommended to do proper research when looking into a shidduch. However, if the situation does not involve a serious mental or physical health concern that has a large impact, allow the person to tell his or her own story. We understand ourselves best, and should have the opportunity, when appropriate, to properly give over our own story at the proper time.

Much hatzlacha to all of those currently in shidduchim and keep in mind that Hakadosh Baruch Hu is The Ultimate Shadchan, so turn to Him for clarity along the way. Traumatized, unworked-through children become traumatized unworked-through adults who then become traumainducing, unworked-through spouses.

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Your letter is a bit short on details, but let’s assume that the “scandal” is more significant than cheating on a 7th grade algebra test, is not a medical problem, and does not involve you personally.

Accordingly, there are three issues to consider regarding this information: first, when should you disclose it; second, how will the other party react to it; and third, how best to present it.

First, I asked several marriage professionals when to reveal negative information, and received answers ranging from as early as the third date to as late as a couple of months of dating. It seems to depend upon where you are positioned on our religious spectrum and on what the norms are in your particular community.

The best advice would be to ask knowledgeable local rabbis or shadchanim. Revealing it too early might stop a wonderful relationship from ever developing. Revealing it too late can be an unfair, crushing blow to a single, who has already invested much time and emotion in the relationship.

Second, you need to prepare for how the young lady will react to this news. If she and her family are the type who are extremely conscious of their social standing and position in the

community, who can’t allow any perceived blemish upon how they perceive themselves, then there is no hope for your relationship. Let’s hope that they are more open-minded and accepting. By the way, you might be surprised to find that your family’s deep, dark secret is actually more publicly known than you imagine. Today, because a simple Google-type search is very easy to perform, your girlfriend might already know about the “scandal.” I secretly hope that she knows about it and is at peace with it.

Third, you may wish to explain to her that having this skeleton in your family closet has actually made you a better, stronger person. You have learned and grown from not only the positives but also the negatives in your family history.

You may wish to talk about what Dr. Viktor Frankl says in his book, “Man’s Search for Meaning.” A Holocaust survivor, he decided, after four years in Auschwitz, that despite events that are beyond your control, you can still maintain your freedom to control and choose how you respond to these challenges.

Explain that your family background has forged, in you, an ironwilled determination to become an exemplary husband, father, and member of the community.

Good luck! Please write to us and let us know how it all turns out.

Pulling It All Together

The Navidaters Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists

Dear Yaakov,

Thank you for writing into our column. It can feel so very scary to disclose a very “scandalous/bad” issue within one’s family. And though I don’t know the specific issue, I understand that you are speaking of something that isn’t every-day, something that may make the wonderful girl and/ or her parents choose to walk away from you, even though you had nothing to do with it. It is a family member’s scandal. Not yours.

Most human beings experience shame. Most human beings carry secrets; either their own or their family’s – things that if exposed to the public would feel like a death. The fear of being exposed, of being rejected, of someone being disgusted is a lot for a person to cope with. To experience that rejection from someone we love or potentially could imagine ourselves sharing a life with can be too much to handle.

Before I give you my personal opinion about this (and it is just that, an opinion...this isn’t a science and there is often no one right way to about matters of the heart), I feel that I must address shame within shidduchim and the Orthodox (modern and all the way to the right) ideal of the “perfect family.”

Many years ago, I was in a medical office waiting room. And these two lovely (and clearly not Orthodox) ladies were chatting. Yes, my son went to rehab for alcohol and cocaine addiction. He had been in and out of jail. And then my husband and I divorced because the pressure was just too much on the marriage. The woman went on and on. And the other woman began sharing about her life. And the two sat in this medical office, speaking audibly, enough for me to hear them. And all I thought was, Wow! Look how beautiful this is! These two women chatting so openly with as much as comfort as talking about a grocery list. And then I thought to myself, What a healing moment! There is no judgment. No shame. When we let out our most pri-

If someone is your bashert, then you are already two halves of a whole.

vate thoughts and our deepest pain to a safe person, we heal! We heal! We heal! In certain communities, we simply are not allowed to share because we must seem perfect. And please, please, please... please do not send me any letters or emails telling me this isn’t true because in my line of work I see firsthand how deeply this impacts families and individuals on so many levels and scales in the Orthodox world. People who cannot heal because they risk losing status in shidduchim. The pain is real, and I will be a voice for all of you who suffer privately.

I want to tell you that you are human! And that I believe deeply that you are worthy of love, and worthy of getting married, with whatever “secret” you are carrying that has you mistakenly believing you are unloveable. It’s not true!

Back to you, Yaakov. We all have secrets. And revealing those secrets, especially in shidduchim is a scary, scary prospect within the manmade shidduch system. You need to truly listen to and trust what I am saying right now. It’s the truth. It is the only thing that makes sense to me, personally, on every level. It is also what I have seen time and time again in my line of work.

When it’s the right person, there is nothing you can tell that person that will keep her away from you. Nothing. Because if someone is your bashert, then you are already two halves of a whole. And your story is already hers. And hers is yours.

When the time is right, you will feel it. And I want you to do it with no fear. No fear. I want everyone to feel good about themselves, their families, where they come from. I want everyone to know that we all have a story. Most of us have family members who embarrass us or have done something shameful, on different scales. This is simply because we are all just human beings. And human beings make mistakes! We are all just having a human experience. And we are all still loveable and worthy. And instead of being taught to hide and feel shameful, in my opinion, we should be taught how loveable we all are. You know that bumper sticker we see on cars everywhere? Hashem loves you! I love that bumper sticker. I love it! It always makes me feel so good whenever I see it. It doesn’t say Hashem loves a part of you. Or, Hashem loves you, but that shameful family member makes Him not love you sometimes. He loves you!

Feel good about yourself, Yaakov. If she is the one, she won’t let you go because of something scandalous a family member did. And it’s as simple as that. Sincerely, Jennifer

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.