Unrevised Hansard-12th Sitting (2017-2021)

Announcements TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2018

The House met at 1.32 p.m.

PRAYERS [MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER in the Chair] ANNOUNCEMENTS LEAVE OF ABSENCE

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Honourable Members, I have

received communication from the following Members:  The Honourable Kelvin Charles, Chief Secretary and Assemblyman for Black Rock/Whim/Spring Garden, has asked to be excused from the sitting of the House today.  The Honourable Councillor Dr. Agatha Carrington has also asked to be excused from today’s sitting and that her response to the Questions posed on the Order Paper be presented at the next Plenary Sitting of the Tobago House of Assembly.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The following Papers by the Secretary of Finance and the Economy:

2 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Papers Laid PAPERS LAID

(i)

Tobago House of Assembly Monthly Budget Report as at the end of December, 2017. [Secretary of Finance and the Economy (Hon. Joel Jack)].

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No. 37, Minority Leader.

ROXBOROUGH TO KENDAL BEACHFRONT, HOMES AND BUSINESSES (Collapsing sea wall due to coastal erosion – update)

37.

MR. W. DUKE asked the Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and

the Environment and Leader of Assembly Business the following question: “At the 7th Sitting of the Tobago House of Assembly (THA), information about the short and long term plans to treat with the coastal erosion affecting the shoreline from Roxborough to Kendal was requested. The coastal erosion continues, which places several homes and businesses at risk of being destroyed. (a)

Please provide an update on what has been done to treat with this critical issue, since this matter was last raised in the House.”

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment.

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d)

3 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS (Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes): Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, as a small island developing State, Tobago is still very vulnerable to the effects of climate change which include rising sea levels. We have noticed a significant incursion and erosion on the coastline throughout Tobago. including:     

Several red zones have been identified

The Roxborough Argyle area; Crown Point; Pigeon Point; Milford Road; and Black Rock.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am pleased to announce that a Note for the formation of the Coastal Zone Protection Unit of the Tobago House of Assembly has been brought before the Executive Council for consideration.

I am also pleased to announce, that through the intervention and the diligent work of the Secretary for Finance and the Economy, Assemblyman Joel Jack, the officials from my Division have been able to meet with the Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. DR. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d) Inter-American Development Bank (IADB) as we are seeking to secure funding for Costal protection work on the island.

4 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No. 38, by the Minority Leader to the Deputy Chief Secretary and Secretary of Finance and the Economy.

AUDITED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF THE ASSEMBLY (Submission to the Minister of Finance)

38.

MR. W. DUKE asked the Deputy Chief Secretary and Secretary of

Finance and the Economy the following question: “According to the Ministry of Finance’s State Enterprises Performance Monitoring Manual, State Enterprises are required to submit “Audited Financial Statements to the Minister of Finance within four (4) months of their financial year end.” These reports are to be laid in Parliament and subsequently submitted to the Public Accounts and Enterprises Committee for consideration.  Eco-Industrial Development Company of Tobago Limited (EIDCOT);  Tobago House of Assembly Venture Capital Equity Fund Company Limited; Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. DR. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

   

Tobago Cassava Products Limited; Fish Processing Company of Tobago Limited (FIPCOT); Milford Road Esplanade Limited; Tobago Information Technology Limited (TITL);

5 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.  Tobago Cold Storage and Warehouse Facilities Limited (TCOSWAF);  Tobago Hospitality and Tourism Institute (THTI);  Pigeon Point Heritage Park Company Limited;  Tobago Project Development Authority Limited (a)

Please indicate if each of these companies have submitted yearly audited financials, and the most recent year submitted for each Company.”

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Secretary of Finance and the

Economy.

DEPUTY CHIEF SECRETARY AND SECRETARY OF FINANCE AND THE ECONOMY (Hon. J. Jack): Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. DR. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d) As it relates to Companies owned by the Tobago House of Assembly, each Company is required to submit their Annual Financial Statements to their respective Divisions, through their Line Secretaries.

Additionally, Madam Presiding Officer, the Executive Council recently realigned several THA (Tobago House of Assembly) Enterprises under various Divisions, thereby reducing the number of Companies under the purview of the Division of Finance and the Economy, from eight (8) to three (3).

6 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

As such, Madam Presiding Officer, I report on the status of those Tobago House of Assembly’s Companies under the purview of the Division of Finance and the Economy and for Companies which I have with the information as requested by the Minority Leader.

I wish to advise that may be a subsequent question or questions can be posed to the respective Secretaries under whose purviews those Companies fall.

PERSONAL EXPLANATIONS PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Members, I have before me two (2) Motions that have been put forward to refer to the Privileges Committee and I will request in the order in which I received them for persons to stand and have a five (5) minute Statement presented as to why they wish this Motion to be before the Privileges Committee. So, I will begin with the Leader of Assembly Business, Councillor Kwesi Des Vignes. [Desk thumping] LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT (Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes): Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. I sought your leave for a matter to be referred to the Committee of Privileges and I thank you for the opportunity.

7 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

I sought your leave under Standing Order 36 to raise a matter directly concerning the privilege of this House given the following: 1.

The utterances of the Minority Councillor at a Press Conference dated Tuesday 6th February, 2018 and reported in parts in the Thursday, February 8th, 2018 Edition of the Tobago Newsday.

The Councillor stated:

Planning and

"It is unfortunate that the Secretary for Health Dr. Agatha Carrington is the one who made the Policy mistakes.

She went on: Personal Explanations (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d) And after all of that they then went and they are trying to punish the Public Servant.

She further went on to say: We think that this is an attack on Public Servants.

Madam Presiding Officer, the Minority Councillor went on to indicate: This is just a plot to have workers afraid to speak up.”

These said utterances were made even after Councillor, Dr. Agatha Carrington made a statement in the House on December, 21 st 2017 and these utterances are designed to bring into public odium and disrepute, Members

8 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. of this House by imputing improper motives to these Members contrary to their Oaths taken in this House.

(2) its

The fact that such utterances can undermine the integrity and dignity of this House, thereby subjecting this House and Members to public ridicule, disrespect and a concomitant loss of confidence in the ability of this Honourable House to legitimately discharge its functions and obligations under

law.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is indeed disturbing when we can see in the newspaper at any time that members of this House especially after providing personal explanations were accused of doing anything less than upholding the Constitution and Law as was indicated in the Oaths of Office that we have taken.

Personal Explanations (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

Madam Presiding Officer, what is more disturbing is that these allegations speak to an attempt or an alleged attempt by Members of this Honourable House even after they would have addressed this House, Madam Presiding Officer, to undermine the legitimate independence outlined by the Constitution of the Public Service Commission.

Madam Presiding Officer, further we have a situation where the statements and utterances by the Minority Councillor were again intended to

9 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. bring harm to the good reputation of a Member of this House who would have stood in this House and represented this House, spoken to this House indicating each and every step that was taken to ensure that Members of her workforce were paid.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is indeed disturbing and disheartening that the Member would choose to attempt to bring this House, this good House into odium, disrespect, disrepute and attempt to undermine the integrity of the words that are uttered in this House because Madam Presiding Officer, we have a duty of care to ensure that we uphold the Constitution and the law.

Again, under the Constitution Section 171 of the Constitution to be exact, the independence of the Public Service Commission is outlined.

Therefore, it is public knowledge that the Tobago House of Assembly has no right, nor responsibility to punish, employ, promote or dismiss any Members of the Public Service. So to impute that there is a plot is really to say, that it is a deliberate attempt again to cause public ridicule, disrespect and for the public to lose confidence in the business of this House.

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Honourable Members, having only just received this Motion this morning, I proposed to deliver my ruling at the next sitting of the House.

10 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

At the next Motion for Privileges will be moved by Member for Parlatuvier/L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside, Assemblyman Farley Augustine.

MR. FARLEY AUGUSTINE (Parlatuvier/L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside): Madam Presiding Officer, at the Eleventh (11th) Plenary Sitting of the Tobago House of Assembly that was held on Thursday January 25th, 2018 the Secretary for Health, Wellness and Family Development, Councillor Dr. Agatha Carrington made damaging statements that can bring this Honourable House into odium and ridicule.

The Member in a long rant claimed to have full knowledge of the Medical records of Members of this House. Boasted about her supposed ability to remove and/or move around unnamed Medical Practitioners from Health Facilities in this country so they cannot treat Members opposite and without being a Medical Doctor herself sought to make diagnosis on the health of Members opposite.

Whether it is hearsay or not, true or false, the Secretary was irresponsible, and if she can indeed gather information through health records she is violating the privacy of an individual. And if she can indeed use her powers to move Medical Practitioners around to suit her political pursuits then that is dangerous.

Madam Presiding Officer, her distasteful rant which must be perceived as "Cussing in the House" got the full support of the Members of the Majority.

11 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

She went further, she rejected the usefulness of this House by making it clear that she should not be questioned about her handling of the Division over which she leads.

In arrogance she claimed that matters surrounding the rental of the Habib building should not be queried because as she puts it, "It is our rent and mind your own business."

Sadly, the posturing also received commendations by virtue of raucous thumping on the desks by her colleagues.

Finally, and most sadly, she sought to shame the Minority Councillor, Dr. Faith B. Yisrael on what she perceived to be the Minority Councillor's medical inability. She said, and I quote Personal Explanations (Cont’d) MR. F. AUGUSTINE (Cont’d)

"You so bitter that you cannot sleep and if you want to govern try to sleep, try to be less bitter don't be doing what you doing because it is not going to and if you aspire to getting a family so, you not going to get none because if you bitter like that, nobody will make you sweet far more make you a parent."

Madam Presiding Officer, such a Statement is, “Unbelievable” [Desk thumping] in the context of 2018. The Member by ignorantly dismissing the fact, that Dr. F. B. Yisrael already has a family as she is married, attempted

12 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. to provide what she feels is a plausible explanation for why the Councillor is childless. More than that, she is strongly inferring that being childless must be the fault of the Councillor herself and that being childless is some great sin.

We acknowledge, that picong is part of our political culture; we acknowledge that:  Sarcasms;  Pawns;  Metaphors; and  Other figurative devices colour our political discourse unlike any other jurisdiction; we acknowledge that some of these are acceptable in the House, and some are only acceptable outside of this House. However, at no point is it ever acceptable to make jokes about someone’s perceived medical inabilities. That is “unethical” and it is not “human”.

Madam Presiding Officer, women all over this country and the Tobago diaspora were hurt by the Secretary’s Statement. Here we have someone appointed, as the Secretary for Health on the island in a sitting of the House, chastising another female about possible infertility issues. To minimize, “infertility”, to “bitterness” is also “unacceptable”. There are many women struggling to conceive and carry a child, whether single or married and to correlate this to being, “bitter” as someone responsible for Health Services

13 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. on the island, is unacceptable in and out of the House. The insensitivity; crassness; and apathy; displayed by the Secretary contrast… [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, your speaking time is up.

Honourable Members since I would have only just received this request minutes before the sitting, I propose to rule on it at my next sitting in the House.

Leader of Assembly Business.

Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan HON. K. DES VIGNES

(Cont’d) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MOTION PROPOSED TOBAGO PROTECTED AREA SYSTEMS PLAN

LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT: [Hon.

14 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Kwesi Des Vignes]: [Desk thumping] Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

This afternoon, I rise to move the following motion.

“WHEREAS the unique environment of Tobago directly supports the livelihood of Tobagonians engaged in various activities including farming, fishing and tourism; AND WHEREAS formal efforts to protect our environment began as early as 1776 when the British Parliament officially declared the Main Ridge as a Forest Reserve; AND WHEREAS through a series of collaborative efforts with international, regional and national bodies, the Tobago House of Assembly has been actively involved in preserving and protecting our environment for our present and future generations; BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the Executive Council in developing and adopting a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan;

Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that pursuant to the adoption of the Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan, the Main Ridge Forest Reserve be officially declared as the first designated protected area; AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that other ecologically sensitive areas be adopted on a phased basis under the proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan”.

15 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, I want to start this discourse by first of all, defining what a protected area is. It can be defined as a geographically defined area of land; body of fresh water or sea; or a combination of these which is designated and managed through legal or other effective means.

Madam Presiding Officer, a designation of a

protected area does not mean that the resources are locked up, but rather that an area is chosen so that specific action can be focused on restoring and maintaining a particular feature of ecological or geographical importance to or at a favourable status.

Madam Presiding Officer, in terms of the actions that are taken, we have to recognize that the Tobago House of Assembly has been actively involved in ensuring that we protect our one hundred and sixteen (116) square miles of island paradise.

There have been the questions as to why

now? Why is this necessary? What are we trying to do? The answer is Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d) simple. We are trying to ensure that there is a Tobago that we can be proud of. Not only today, but we want a Tobago that we can be proud of for the next ten (10); twenty (20); one hundred (100) years and until the end of time, and a Tobago that our future generations can enjoy.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is also important that we preserve and protect our very delegate, ecological balance here in Tobago. Trinidad and

16 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Tobago on a whole, is probably the most ecologically diverse set of landmasses in the Caribbean. The reality is, despite several attempts under several different pieces of Legislation to protect different pieces of Real Estate in both Trinidad and Tobago, what we have resulted in, is a state of confusion at times. What we have resulted in, is sometimes overlapping of responsibilities, what it has resulted in sometimes is that they are gaps.

Madam Presiding Officer, the (FAO) Food and Agriculture Organization would have been conducting again under the invitation of the Government and in partnership with the Tobago House of Assembly, the necessary research on having a “Protected Area System Plan” adopted in Tobago. The reality is, we would have found that there are over thirty-two (32) different pieces of Legislation that speaks to protection in some form or fashion of different environments. Again, as I indicated earlier, this can Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

lead to confusion. So the purpose of having a Tobago Protected Area System Plan, would be to establish an appropriate framework for the selection legal designation and management of our protected areas here on the island.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is important, that we recognize the business of Tobago, the business of protecting our real estate cannot be left to chance. Yes, all of us have grown up, every single one of us has grown up

17 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. knowing that the Main Ridge is a forest Reserve as designated by the British Parliament. The reason that they would have done that is that they would have recognized that the plantocracy at the time would have recognized that the area was important as a watershed and to maintain the plantations on the island, the Agrarian Economy they needed to protect this forest reserve.

Madam Presiding Officer, the Trinidad and Tobago Government, the only Marine Park is the Buccoo Reef Marine Park which is under another piece of Legislation yet again. There were even attempts previously to make it an environmentally sensitive area, but what we have again, is several overlapping pieces of Legislation. I want to liken it to an Education System

where we have different standards all over the place. Now that we have our Tertiary Education System, mind you, now that an Accreditation Council was brought on board, we now have a standardization almost of the quality of education that is given at the tertiary level.

Madam Presiding Officer, so we have to look at the fact that having this system of Protected Areas for Tobago would lead to us ensuring that we protect not only the places that we know of currently, like the Main Ridge and Buccoo Reef but there are several other areas on the island as well that we could consider as ecologically important and significant not only to us here in Tobago - Trinidad and Tobago but worldwide.

18 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, that is just what the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment is trying to do by having the Main Ridge Forest Reserve and its surrounded areas designated as a United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) World Heritage Site.

Because a United Nations Educational, Scientific and

Cultural Organization (UNESCO) World Heritage Site means that this specific area, this specific real estate is significant to be protected in the interest, the common interest of all universally. Madam Presiding Officer, it means that we have already started taking the steps to say that we are serious about preserving our environment.

Please allow me to digress because we are seeing now an alarming amount of dumping happening here in Tobago. We are seeing an alarming amount of indiscriminate activities that negatively impact on our environment. We have been taking the necessary steps through monitoring the Environmental Police, Public Education with the schools and the list goes on.

But we have to look at what is fundamental. What is fundamental is that we have to really recognize that what we have is worth protecting and by understanding that across the island we will be in a better position to appreciate and take care of what God has given to us. This one hundred and sixteen (116) square miles of island paradise should not be taken for granted by anyone.

19 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, imagine I was asked yesterday, Mr. Secretary, don't you think that there are other more pressing issues to be addressed?

I said to the person, "I agree that they are other pressing issues

that can be addressed but no one can tell me that preserving and protecting our environment under a uniform system is not pressing and important.

[Desk thumping] Because we have a habit of saying, "Oh Gosh if ah did know." If I did know and we are going through that now with the Buccoo Reef where for several years the Buccoo Reef was a stellar attraction and people were walking on the Buccoo Reef, people were taking up corals and sea fans from the Buccoo Reef and now that things are not looking good we are saying, "If ah did know."

Madam Presiding Officer, could you imagine, that we have other Reefs around Tobago and we choose not to protect them and then ten/twenty years from now all we could get up in this House and say is, "Oh gosh, if ah did know." We cannot wait until it is too little, too late. There has been enough irreparable damage done to our environment and it is time to take a structured approach; an approach that is research-driven, an approach that involves all stakeholders, an approach that encourages our international partners, our approach that encourages international funding and an approach that encourages Tobagonians to recognize, realize that our treasure, our island, our environment needs protecting not now but from now until the end of time.

There are several benefits that can be derived from adopting a system of protected areas. Of course, we look at our national priorities, we now

20 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. have a new vision and the reality is as we look towards developing Tobago and the Chief Secretary would have spoken about his vision for the island on numerous occasions, Tourism is very important to us.

Later on my

colleague, the Secretary for Tourism, Culture and Transportation would speak so I would not go too far into it but one of our competitive advantages here, right here in Tobago is our environment and we have to be sure that we are protecting it. International funders are also willing to work with us.

Madam Presiding Officer, on Monday, I am pleased to announce that I would have handed over the instruments of appointment to the North-east Protected Area Management Trust.

Madam Presiding Officer, this is the first time that we have fully and wholly embraced a full co-management approach to the ecological assets that we are bestowed with. [Desk thumping] So, we now have all sectors of society, Madam Presiding Officer, coming together to say, “This is ours, we want to protect it, we want to preserve it.� Madam Presiding Officer, more fundamentally, we can look at the fact that we can still yield the benefits or the communities rather, can still yield the benefits of these protected areas because we are not protecting it.

We want tourist to come here or we are not protecting it because we want other people to just say well, "Whow, that's a nice forest." We are protecting it for our people, for Tobagonians. We are protecting our spaces

21 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. because we recognized that these spaces are significant to us here on the island.

Madam Presiding Officer, there have already been significant public consultations and it is interesting to note some of the areas that people want protective. Of course, in the North-east there are persons who want a Northeast Marine Park.

There are people who even want the Lambeau Beach because it is called "Warm Pool" affectionally known as "Warm Pool" to be protected and it is an interface between the beach and a wetland.

There are people who want to see the Goldsborough Water Shed protected and all of these areas, Madam Presiding Officer, we have the opportunity going forward once we establish this Protected Area Management System. This Systems Plan that we can say, "Listen, this is the criteria, this is how we are going to go about managing, these are the stakeholders; these are the people responsible; these are the end results� and we can clearly outline the way forward.

Madam Presiding Officer, we should see this as a ground breaking action and I hope that those opposite are ready and willing to support because if they are really serious about protecting and preserving Tobago, they need to get on board; they need to recognize that a system of this nature can do and yield much more benefits.

22 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, because earlier I mentioned the disturbing trend of dumping on the island. The reality is even with the Environmental Proposed Tobago Protected Police doing the work that they are doing now they are still finding it difficult to ensure that persons are doing their bit to protect the environment.

We still have the yatchees coming in and dumping indiscriminately in some of our waters on occasion. Madam Presiding Officer, under this Tobago Protected Area System Plan as I said earlier, we can look at comanagement, we can look at a system where we have the NGOs, NEST, Environment Tobago, Anfromarge and Eric in Charlotteville and so on, coming together to say, "Hi, we are part and parcel." We can bring in the Village Councils, we can bring in all the Police Youth Groups.

Everyone

can be a part of the Management of our Protected Areas because this is really important to us.

Madam Presiding Officer, again I want to emphasize that having the areas designated as Protected does not mean we are locking up the resources.

On the contrary, what we are doing is identifying the resources and saying, these resources are worth protecting in a particular way and there are several guidelines we need to look at when it comes to protected areas. There are several guidelines that we would have taken into account as well when looking at protected areas.

We speak about representation - we want to ensure that each of the protected areas under the system should conserve all of the species. Eco-

23 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. systems, Geomorphological and pedagogical elements, patterns and processes on the island. Of course, we are looking at new areas that would be recommended to fill eco-systems gaps as I said, it would be phased introduction.

So we have to look at the fact Madam Presiding Officer, that having this system of “Resiliency�, each of the protected areas of the system as a whole should be designed to ensure that protected elements, patterns and processes can be sustained in the system.

Of course, this would ensure that we

emphasize the size of the area; the shape; the connectivity with other areas and so on.

When my Colleague, of course the Secretary of Food Production speaks later on, he would speak about the initiatives that have taken place already to ensure that we properly demarcate the boundaries of the Main Ridge Forest Reserve. These things have been ongoing.

Redundancy: The Protected Area System should as much as possible ensure that sufficient redundancy exist in the Protected Area System to ensure that if a catastrophic natural or anthropogenic disturbance occurs, none of the species ecosystems

or geomorphological and pedalogical

elements, patterns and processes in the system will be lost. We are looking at an Ecosystem Based Management. So, we are looking again at these protected areas and the system will be designed to be realistic. We have to understand that people are using these systems; people are interfacing with these protected areas on a daily basis. So, we have to be very realistic in

24 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. what we are doing. That is why one (1) of the mandates of the North East Protected Area Management Thrust is to ensure that all times these surrounding communities’ benefits.

Madam Presiding Officer, it goes without saying, that it is time enough that we take full charge of our land space. It is time enough that we say that this is ours and this is how we want it to be preserved. There are different spaces all around the island whether it be fresh water; whether it be sea water; terrestrial; and forested areas and so on.

We now have an

opportunity as a people to start determining how we want different areas to be protected and managed.

Madam Presiding Officer, I just want to indicate that under this Protected Area Management System, we are looking at seven (7) different levels of classification. We are looking at having scientific reserves which will be the highest form of classification and after consultation it would become more and more obvious that the Main Ridge should be classified as such.

Scientific Conversation Reserves is the second level:  National Parks;  National Landmarks;  Habitat or species;  Management Reserves;  Protected Landscapes or Seascapes; 

Sustainable use reserve would be the lowest designation.

25 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, when we implement this System, when we are able to implement a Protected Area System for Tobago; we can be the ones (and again we are the ones in collaboration and I would say we as a collective in Tobago here) to designate the different protected area under the system. Once we keep in line with the mandate as set out under the System, we can be the ones to update our Protected Areas System. We do not have to wait on anyone to pass any Legislation to say that this is a protected area.

It means Madam Presiding Officer, that the people in Charlotteville when they see the yachties coming in the Pirates Bay area, it means that if the North East Marine Park is so designated, it means that the people of Charlotteville will have a reason to say more than ever that this space is ours and you cannot just come and drop your anchor as you feel all willy-nilly.

It means that the people in Bon Accord Madam Presiding Officer, when you look at the Bon Accord Lagoon although it is a Ramsar site, if it comes under the Protected Area System, the people of Bon Accord would be a major stakeholder and they can say “hey, this is how we want this area protected. We are responsible for the management of this area�. They can ensure that we preserve that area for future generations for those coming up in the area.

Madam Presiding Officer, I really again want to encourage the Minority to support this initiative; to support ensuring that Tobago has its own system of protected areas; to ensure that as we move forward as an

26 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Assembly, we can identify areas and we can designate them as a protected area under our Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan. Madam Presiding Officer, might I say that this will be a way for us to even set trends in the region, and this would be way to signal to our international partners that we are truly serious as well about the protection and preservation of our environment.

We have a gem here Madam Presiding Officer, we have an opportunity. We are saying that now is the time for us to implement a system that says to us, we are serious about protecting our God given gift, our one hundred and sixteen (116) square miles of island paradise.

Madam Presiding Officer, I so move. [Desk thumping] Question proposed.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader.

MR. W. DUKE: Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

The pleasure is mine this evening to stand before this Honourable House before the natives of Tobago and ask the question. What have they been protecting and what do they want to protect?

My mind travelled very

far.

Indeed, the role of any Government, of any country or any subsidiary (if I may speak of a Government) or any Assembly is to protect the people.

If you want to:

27 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

 Protect Food;  Protect Water;  Protect Health Care;  Protect Education;  Protect Environment;  Protect Finances;  Protect jobs; Yes, it is about protecting.

Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan (Cont’d) MR. W. DUKE (Cont’d)

While I listened to my Colleague on the other side, Councillor Kwesi Des Vignes, I must say his arguments reminded me of a time when my foreparents would go to Church and they would say that the priest spoke, he spoke well and they said he spoke in Latin, but they could not understand what he said. I asked myself, how many of those persons who are viewing through this YouTube, through this Facebook Page, could understand those words he is using. Very verbose! Very verbose. Love to use words. Trying to write down some of the words he talking about:

28 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

    

Environment; Resilience; Redundancy; Redesign, Eco ...

Why can't you make the thing simple? We are talking about protection of the environment.

So his arguments were sounding persuasive but they were very deceptive, extremely, extremely deceptive.

This is a Bill that requires

meticulous attention. It requires careful and diligent attention. In this Bill you could be an Estate owner. Your father could leave for you eight hundred (800) acres of land, wanting to develop it as an income Mr. Councillor. The THA PNM-led Executive looking at your land and say, “This is a protective site you cannot build here, this is a protected site.”

I am very mindful of

the words they chose in their Motion and I will just read a part of the Motion that makes it absolutely dangerous and deceptive.

They are asking us, this august House of Assembly to vote, to give them the rights, just give it cart blanche like that, give it to them; give them that discussionary power to do as they want in making places safe protected.

In the Bible there was a man who said, “They give me vineyards to keep but that they do not even keep their own vineyard.”

That was

29 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Solomon. They want to protect new places but the places that are now protected since 1964 that is the Main Ridge since 1973 that is the Buccoo all these places they have not protected them.

Madam Presiding Officer, they cannot even protect the people. I stand here today representing the people outside of this House and I want it to be known under this PNM-led Executive we had over nine hundred and fifty (950) serious crimes in 2017 and instead of bringing a Bill to curb that, bringing a Motion to curb that - No! They have no interest in that. They want to protect the environment now.

When I read the Tobago House of Assembly Act, Section 25, it gives a right to this Tobago House of Assembly. I mean, both Minority Council and the Executive Council, it gives us a right to be responsible - the House to be responsible for the formation and implementation of policy. "Policy" is the word.

In respect to matters set out in the Fifth (5 th) Schedule. Under the Fifth (5th) Schedule you will find things like the environment. So the Bill is one that fits into the Act. But where is the policy? Where is the policy to protect the environment? You bring something from Google read, “bbb.”

As I looked at you I recognize there was weak - As I looked at the Speaker, Madam Presiding Officer, let me speak to you.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I looked at the Speaker, I saw a disconnect between his Motion and his utterances. The Speaker will speak

30 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. and close his eyes and he would sway, there was no commitment, there was no life. He did not write that speech, he did not write that. He borrowed that. May be it is the Chief Secretary who gave him that speech to read. I know the man, he is an intelligent man, he used to be a Teacher. But he seemed to be reluctant as if he want to run out the House, he want to come back, he is sleeping, he is awake - it was frustrating over the last forty (40) minutes listening to my colleague on the other side I must admit - very frustrating.

It is the role of this august House, this House of Assembly both the Executive Council I say and the Minority Council to act responsible, to come up with policies eh - for the formation and the implementation of matters in the Fifth Schedule. Remember that mean something. It is us.

Not that you come here with some flippant deceptive Motion, not even properly done, saying to us, to give you that right cart blanche so you just go and do what you want and say you protecting place? Let us do a careful examination.

This Buccoo Heritage Site, Buccoo Long Beach, call it that - since 1973 before most of these people in the House were born (junior Politicians) was set aside as a Protected Area.

In 2005/2006 (based on where your

reader would say so) it became a Ramesar Protected Site - internationally protected.

Yet, we are hearing the Prime Minister from the reading of an article saying he heard people talking about some hairy crab down they. But they

31 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. will get Sandals and get the hairy crab. So much for protection Brother Farley, so much for protection!

We want to ask them for the last seventeen (17) years where is the South-west Sewer Treatment Plant - where is the South-west? We still have raw sewerage going out into the ocean. We have a lot of the corals dying from diseases - bleaching. A lot of the run-off water is also damaging the animals and fauna in the sea.

I am concerned, for seventeen (17) years they sat down and they did nothing, hoping for Sandals to come to give them a South-west Plant.

Hoping for Sandals to come to give them electricity while the rest of Tobago playing, “inky blinky” when night time come in. Current gone, current ain’t they.

While I home today preparing to come here, current just go so, “poosh” in the middle of the day – “poosh.” I tell you, poosh, poosh.

[Crosstalk] Madam Presiding Officer, I am amazed, I am amazed.

[Laughter] In this modern age we have to contend with electricity going and coming - broad daylight. If you want to take electricity take it at 1.00 o'clock in the morning, at 2.00 o'clock in the morning, not during the hours of productive day. But they want to protect the Reef. Where is the Southwest Water Treatment Plant? But they laugh and this is why we cannot put power in your hands. It is dangerous to put power in the hands of the Executive. That power must be controlled. So I heard them, to give them the power to be able to protect area.

32 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

There are persons in Tobago with two hundred (200) acres of land in the forest, three hundred (300) acres, some people have hundred (100) acres some have twenty (20) acres. We are afraid that with the Executive Council who are already on a train of their own, a group of people who are devoided of human feelings and irrational, we are afraid to put that power in their hands. They may just look at a man piece of land - choice land and say that is a protected site you cannot build there.

They want to usurp the rights of Town and Country Planning. No longer must Town and Planning decide. I thought it was Town and Country Planning responsibility to look at the entire area?

Town and Country and

then decide and say, you know what, these are areas that you should consider for some future preservation.

There are already groups designed for that.

Why is it that the Tobago House of Assembly must give the power to the Executive Council? That is our concern this afternoon.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to ask the question, what do they want to protect, what? I have listened the entire speech and I have not heard anything about what they what to protect. What do they want to protect?

If you are in charge as one (1) person claimed we would expect you to protect Buccoo Beach by removing these old iron, (and the Representative is not even there) do a clean up.

A set of old iron in Buccoo Beach, we expect you to protect that. We expect that they break down this dilapidated, waiting to kill somebody jetty. Break

33 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. it down flat! Move it out! If you want to protect something, protect that.

Start with that. The Scripture says, “If you cannot walk with the footmen how you could run with the horsemen”?

If you cannot walk with the

footmen, where did you get that ambition from that you want to protect areas? They cannot even protect the people in the country. People dying left, right centre. They cannot even protect the sick in the hospital; they cannot even protect files in the hospital, either. With the former Secretary stated in the last utterances, that she has access to files, it means that files are no longer protected in the hospital.

But they want to come and tell us in

good conscience, give them the right to protect places.

No! That is not

your business. It is the business of the Tobago House of Assembly.

In the early preamble today, he spoke about the:  Fishermen;  Tourism;  Fishermen;  Agriculture depend on the environment

But how many fishermen are there in the country? How many? He failed to say how many fishermen are in the country.

I know the Secretary for

Agriculture is looking at me, and I am hoping to get some answers from him, but I will educate you. How many fishermen in the country? How many fishes we have in the country?

Do we have Flying Fish in the

country? They want to protect the North East area, but have they done a

34 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. careful analysis of the flying fish?

About the Tuna nesting that they

destroyed with all these drilling for oils etcetera? I want to put it to you, it will help you all, there are over four thousand, five hundred (4,500) registered fishermen in this country. Do you hear what I am telling you?

That is facts. Four thousand, five hundred (4,500) fishermen. But do you know how much fishermen practice? I will wait and I want him to answer that.

I visited Roxborough on Tuesday, it is a Fishing Village. There are a lot of the young men in the area are pulling up their boats and in the hot sun, they are trying to repair their boats. They are having challenges with even getting the appropriate resources that is materials etcetera to complete the task. They do not even know how many fishes there are in the sea out there.

We would like that the Executive Council, if they want to protect so much the environment, they must start by telling us how many fishes they have in the sea out there? Have a fish finder! Do a check! You must know how much Tuna you have in the sea. Yes they must know that. They want to protect something? If you have to protect, you have to know what you are protecting.

When I want to protect my money I does know how much

money I have on me. If I am missing one (1) dollar, I would say I am missing a dollar. Where is my dollar? Ain’t it Brother Farley?

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: Yes. [Laughter] I do not have much to protect.

MR. W. DUKE: I want to know where my dollar is, if you want to protect something. When night time comes and I am home in my house, and I go out and I check the doors. I check one door, two door, three door, I say

35 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. right, I am protecting that. Then I check on my children one, two three, I say right, everybody is inside. I am protecting things.

MEMBER: What about your wife?

MR. W. DUKE: Well my wife is right next to me, I touch my wife because my wife sleep on the same bed with me.

You all do not have that

experience, many of you. [Laughter] So, Madam Presiding Officer, if you are going to protect something you have to have numbers; you have to have data.

They come with one place, the oldest reserve in the whole Caribbean.

In fact, it may be in the whole world. The oldest designated reserve, 1764 (they said 1777, they do not even know the date) it was designated as a reserve area, that is the rainforest. They cannot tell us how many trees we have inside there, how much plants we have inside there; whether the plants could be used for cold; medication; what not, how much reptiles; how much mammals. They have nothing! Not an inkling of an idea. How many waterfalls we have inside there; how much trails; how much wild pigs; where are the nests. They do not even know, but they want to protect. What do they want to protect? I will tell you what they want to protect.

Madam Presiding Officer, they want to protect Special Interest Groups. That is what they want to protect. There are already Organizations around that can definitely protect those areas and they are doing a fantastic job. You want to bring everything under one? But you cannot trust their words because they say this today and something else tomorrow.

36 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

One day, you hear the Assistant Secretary who has always been Assistant Secretary since he came into Office, winning his seat all the time but always an Assistant Secretary, he stood and he said look, “Five hundred (500) persons going home”.

He wanted to protect that.

He said five

hundred (500) persons going home. Things tough! One day he is says that.

Before the sun could set Madam Presiding Officer, we have the real Secretary coming to say, “Nah, we are protecting all the jobs, not five thousand (5000), not five hundred (500) all staying because there were numbers, and there is data”.

Once there is data, you can protect it…

[Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Please allow him.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, I rise on a point of Order. The Minority Leader is misrepresenting the statements made by both the Assistant Secretary and myself as mentioned in the public on separate occasions.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Please stay focus Minority Leader on the current debate.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, I can assure you, that what I have said, is well documented. I am focus. I am speaking about protecting what you know. You cannot protect what you do not know. That is the point that I am making. That statement is irrefutable. It is part of my argument. It is staying focus. That is when you talk and you does close your eyes. You

37 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. always close your eyes when you are talking. They cannot stay focus. I does even sleep with my eyes open. That is how focus I am.

It is said that Tourism when you talking, “Environment” you are talking “Tourism”. In 2000, they said Tourism was responsible for nine percent (9%) of GDP (Gross Domestic Product) national GDP. That is about seven hundred and eighty seven million ($787m.) almost a billion dollars ($1b.). To me, that is a lot. It says a lot for us. How do we want to protect areas so we encourage more and more tourist?

It is said that the Buccoo Reef down there, in the year 2006, forty percent (40%) of the arrivals to Tobago, really came to do snorkelling on the Buccoo Reef. They visit the Buccoo Reef. That is data, forty percent (40%). Now, if forty percent (40%) in 2006 visited the Buccoo Reef, then you will have to look at the rise or fall of that number in the years. I can tell you in 2017 that number came down to ten percent (10%). They would not give you that figure.

People stop going to the Reef Madam Presiding

Officer. There is nothing to see on the Reef, but dead corals. Why? The PNM Executive Council for seventeen (17) years failed in their act to protect the reef. Everybody want to open a Business in Store bay. Everybody, cooking oil, cooking this. But where does it go?

Madam Presiding Officer, it is said that in 2007, the amount of fishes that were exported amounted to, point six percent (.6%) of the GDP. We are talking figures here. You want to protect the environment? You have to

38 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. know what you are protecting and for what purposes you are protecting it.

For what purpose!

We grow up in a long time place where we use to have a special type of place, we called it “Buffet’. In the buffet, you have special glass, and glasses and cups etcetera. So, when persons will come to your house, persons of good standing like yourself Honourable Presiding Officer, not like my Councillor friend Kwesi Des Vignes, he has to drink from a bounce up cup.

If you came to my residence long time, my mother will say to me in a dignified voice, “Watson, go to the buffet and get one of those shiny glass for the Presiding Officer.” You are dignified, woman of prominence, woman of distinction, woman of refinement that is who you are. As I am saying to you, what happened, it was protected, it was protected for a particular purpose. She knew what she was doing. The bounce up cup, enamel cup that is for Kwesi and them guys when they come. Give them guys a cup.

[Laughter] You are not protecting nothing from them guys. [Laughter] We are saying, if they want to protect something what is the purpose?

What is the purpose they want to protect Speyside, what is the purpose? It must be for Tourism; it must be as a nesting station for fishes; it must be for other reasons. Say that! Say what policies you have and if we stick to the scriptures as my colleague was saying across there – they say they follow a code last time. They say they follow a code – not so Brother Farley? They

39 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. say they follow a code not so they said? They say they follow a code. We do not follow any code on this side except the code of the people.

Madam Presiding Officer, we want to find out what are they protecting? They came with no data, big words, talking with their eyes closed and drifting as if you want to confuse people in the House here today - no substance, no substance!

The Buccoo Reef is about six hundred and fifty (650) hectares they say. Let me switch from that. I want to go to a place called, “Speyside.”

In 2000, the People’s National Movement (PNM) Executive, set aside Speyside to become a Marine Park. Today is 2018 and Speyside is still not a Marine Park yet. You happen to be the Representative for the area you could tell me that. There is no Marine Park. Let us leave that, leh we come to a place they call “Little Tobago” now.

They bought an island up there called “Goat Island” in front of Little Tobago. How much money again they paid for that - before they send me to Privileges. Millions they spent for a House, one little Prairie House – Little House on the Prairie on Goat Island – big money and the house is rotting down right now, not even protecting that. Bats live in the house, gargoyles live in the house and if I was from Les Coteaux I would have said Jumbie live in the house too. That is what they doing with the money. A natural place Tobago Goat Island.

40 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Behind that island about less than a mile away is a bigger island that was protected since 1923 that was protected.

It is the second oldest

protected place in Tobago – “Little Tobago.” They do not even know that.

They do not have any statistics. I do not know, wonder why they even have staff.

[Crosstalk] Madam Presiding Officer, in 1923 there was a man who said you know what I want to have a place protected where I could mind some birds etcetera and some animals and that place was Little Tobago.

From since

then, he went to Papa New Guinea, he brought back some special birds that were dying out. We call them “Bird of Paradise” found on the five cents (5¢) long time. I still believe they are on the five cents (5¢) now and those birds were there in Little Tobago up until - (I want to try and give you a little more facts on that) the last record were in 1958. When they checked on those birds those birds were there in 1958 and they checked the numbers.

But in 1963, after the Hurricane Flora passed I understand why they could not quote any statistics they were not born yet. In 1963, after the Hurricane passed those birds were no more. Buried, gone and gone with the wind, forgotten like an old Western Movie. You know what, the PNM was in charge then in Trinidad. They did nothing to replenish the supply of birds here in Tobago. [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader you have three (3) minutes.

41 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, based on the time I checked I started at 42:40.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader you have three (3) minutes.

MR. W. DUKE: Alright, I am checking my time.

Madam Presiding Officer, so that island is without any birds, the fauna and flora on that island is not known, the jetty is broken down there is no rest room on the island, persons who are wheelchair bound, who are differently abled cannot have proper access to the island.

Where are we

going? That is a protected site. They have not protected that over the last eight (8) seventeen (17) years but they want us to give them permission so they could do what they want cart blanche and lick up Tobago when man looking to build tell man that “Hi, this is a protected site you cannot build they, you forget that.”

I come to St. Giles Island another protected area, a place where they are said to be a few reptiles living on it, a few birds living on it - a protective site. Have they ever done the check to see the kind of plants we have there, the name of the plants, the type of animals, the name of the animals etcetera?

Why haven’t they done that? If they do where are the Scientific Students on the island that are doing research to say, well look, this can be used for medication or not.

42 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

As I wrap up, I want to say that the Minority Council wishes that the Motion be amended.

Be amended to read in the first Resolve of the

Resolution. We are asking to replace it – to remove the first Resolve and replace it with: “BE IT RESOLVED that this House vote on a Committee comprising both the Executive and Minority Council to have oversight and direction over the development and adoption of a Tobago Protected Areas Systems Plan.”

We talking that. We are saying that we want it to be replaced with that. The first Resolve, let them remove it and let them say: “BE IT RESOLVED that this House vote on a Committee …

[Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, your speaking time is up. If you wish for it to be extended it can be extended.

EXTENSION OF SPEAKING TIME

Motion made: That the Member’s speaking time be extended by ten (10) minutes. [Mr. Farley Augustine] Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, your speaking time has been extended by ten (10) minutes.

43 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

MR. W. DUKE: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. I am checking on my time. So I will now take my time within this ten (10) minutes and state our position for clarity. Before us is this Motion that is very deceptive that starts off by saying: “WHEREAS the unique environment of Tobago directly supports the livelihood of Tobagonians engaged in various activities including farming, fishing and tourism; AND WHEREAS formal efforts to protect our environment began as early as 1776 when the British Parliament officially declared the Main Ridge as a Forest Reserve.

AND WHEREAS through a series of collaborative efforts with international, regional and national bodies, the Tobago House of Assembly has been actively involved in preserving and protecting our environment for our present and future generations."

We, the Minority Council we are saying that we want this, that we are about to read here now be removed. Where they are stating: "BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the Executive Council in developing and adopting a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan."

Madam Presiding Officer, we are saying no to that. We will not delegate any power to the Executive Council to just do as they want, create Protected areas as they want. I mean, what is that?

What we want to replace that with is: “BE IT RESOLVED that this House votes on a Committee comprising both the Executive and the Minority Council to have

44 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. oversight and direction over the development and adoption of a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan”.

It means that both Minority and Executive will come together and we on behalf of the people of Tobago, we will have oversight and direction over the development and the adoption of the Tobago Protected Area System Plan.

That is how you formulate policies. We will not turn our back on this issue, and allow them to do as they want. I know how this thing will end up. A lot of persons who were looking to develop their lands would be told, “that is a protected area, you cannot develop your land there”. That is what they do.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, on a Point of Order.

The Minority Leader continues to cast aspersions about land grabbing by the Tobago House of Assembly and imputing improper motives and I would like to rule that he please desist.

MR. W. DUKE: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. Justice is balance in this House. I have witnessed that. The scale is not tipping and it certainly is not blind. While some people love to give recitals with their eyes half closed, justice is fully awake. I thank God for this House.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, get back on track please. Your time is limited. [Desk thumping] MR. W. DUKE:

Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

So in my

summation this afternoon, I want to say that indeed there are areas of Tobago that needs protecting, new areas. New areas are being discovered day after day, but there are some old areas that we have abandoned. Areas like:

45 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.  St. Giles Island;  Little Tobago;  The Rain Forest;  The Buccoo Reef; and  All the wetlands throughout Tobago;  Even Argyle Wetlands are not being protected also.

We are saying for us to protect those wetlands. Let us work together! We are pledging our support with the Executive Council on that side, let us work together to identify those areas and let us come up with the right type of

policies, have oversight into the formation and adoption of these Plants, so at the end of the day Tobago will be balanced.

Madam Presiding Officer, I thank you this afternoon for allowing me.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Assemblyman Hayden Spencer,

Assemblyman for Belle Garden/Goodwood.

SECRETARY

OF

FOOD

PRODUCTION,

FORESTRY

AND

FISHERIES [Hon. Hayden Spencer]: [Desk thumping] Thank you very much Madam Presiding Officer.

Proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan (Cont’d)

46 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

HON. H. SPENCER (Cont’d)

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to thank the Minority Leader for so far supporting the Motion as laid. [Desk thumping]

Yes, all his

conversations were indicating that he is in agreement that at this time it is necessary for the Tobago House of Assembly to move into this direction of a designated Protected Areas Plan. [Desk thumping] Yes, thank you.

Madam Presiding Officer, I take this opportunity with pleasure in contributing to this Motion as it has been tabled today. Especially given my own port folio as Secretary with the responsibility for Food Production, Forestry and Fisheries.

Madam Presiding Officer, in the area of Forestry, contrary to the Minority Leader’s belief, the area of Forestry is a highly technical area and therefore, should not be politicized. In other words, the Motion as outlined while using the Main Ridge Forest Reserve as initial focal point, resolve that other ecologically sensitive areas in Tobago will also be adopted on a phase basis.

Madam Presiding Officer, I must commend the Technical Officers in the Division of Food Production, Forestry and Fisheries in the Forestry area, with the work that they would have been conducting over the past years in conjunction with entities such as the University of the West Indies, St. Augustine, in conducting from 2015 a Wildlife Survey in the Main Ridge Forest Reserve area.

47 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, to date, three (3) Wildlife Survey would have been conducted and we are looking at starting up the fourth Wildlife Survey in that area to actually indicate to capture the data as to our wildlife in that Main Ridge Forest area. We would have already started work on the trails into that area, also we would have started surveying the boundaries of that wildlife area.

Madam Presiding Officer, what the designation of protected area simply means contrary to what the Minority Leader is purporting. It is simple. One day by listening to him, you would believe that when an area is designated a protected area, that it prevents economic activities and economic development. This is not the case in the Forest Reserve such as ours. What it does, it is a mechanism that you put in place to control the economic development. For example, in Tobago, we have two (2) seasons as it relates to wildlife. A hunting season we close and open hunting season.

What the Committee may find when the necessary data is completed and provided, that in that area you may have to do a Legislation that says listen, “No hunting in that area period�.

To maintain what we have there because as we know worldwide, that the island depends on its tourism product and if you are making trails into the Main Ridge Forest Reserve you will have exotic trees and so on.

So, there are people worldwide that will come to do birdwatching, take pictures, animal watching. Now, we in Tobago we know ourselves, we like wild meat, all of us love wild meat, we love to cook wild meat.

48 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

The close and the opening of the Hunting Season we are well aware that at this present time there are hunters that are hunting in the Main Ridge Forest Reserve and therefore, that plan will indicate to Tobagonians, "Listen, you can in other words, instead of hunting the wild meat and cooking it out you can become an entrepreneur or maybe a Tour guide in taking tourist to the destination and identifying where the wildlife areas are and so on. So, it is not that we want to completely eradicate activities in those areas but to set guidelines.

For example, in Food Production, agricultural activities, if we are to maintain our eco-system there what type of chemicals - fertilizers, pesticides weedicides are to be used in these areas? These are where policies must be formulated to utilize.

So, Madam Presiding Officer, the information was already given that this forest reserve was declared two hundred and forty-two (242) years ago.

As the Minority Leader would have really highlight it which is what I have before me also that, "Yes, although it was declared there was not a system put in place to protect it and this is what this present Administration is seeking to do, to protect the area that was declared a site.

Madam Presiding Officer, we also as humans, we benefit a whole lot, our survival as humans, we benefit a whole lot from the Forest Reserve Area. For example, some of the positive benefits that humans receive from

49 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. the good Forest Reserve Area. It mitigates the climate especially in these times of climate change.

Madam Presiding Officer, our forest reserve absorb harmful green house gases.

Madam Presiding Officer, protecting the water shed and reducing or slowing down the normal erosion of which ... [Interruption] MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, on a Point of Order.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member would you give way?

HON. H. SPENCER:

No, Madam Presiding Officer, I am on a very

technical - alright?

MR. W. DUKE: He have to, he has no choice. The Standing Order cannot be ...

HON. H. SPENCER: Madam Presiding Officer, I will not give way.

MR. W. DUKE: He have to, he have no choice MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Okay, Minority Leader, have a seat he has refused to give way. [Crosstalk]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, two of you cannot ...

MR. W. DUKE: He has to sit down the book says that.

50 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The book also says two (2) of you cannot be on your feet at the same time. If the Member has refused to give way you need to allow.

MR. W. DUKE: Just for clarity ...

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: You have not been approved to get up and read anything. Member can you continue.

MR. W. DUKE: Okay.

HON. H. SPENCER:

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you very much.

[Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, interestingly eh the Minority Leader would have sat there and he went to Toco, he went to Venezuela, he strayed away from actually what is the issue that this Motion is really about and he was left alone. You were left alone.

Madam Presiding Officer, so I beg your indulgence in areas where technical information is to be given to the public I will like to refer to my notes. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Are you asking me permission to refer to your notes?

HON. H. SPENCER: Madam Presiding Officer, yes I am asking you.

51 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: You have that permission.

HON. H. SPENCER: Thank you very much. [Crosstalk] [Laughter] Madam Presiding Officer, providing food and medicines - serving as a buffer in natural disaster such as flood and rainfalls.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is recorded in the world that forest reserve have benefit over one hundred and ... Madam Presiding Officer, sorry, let me rephrase that. You see how important it is to give accurate data? [Laughter] Madam Presiding Officer, the forest provide benefits towards survival of human beings. It has been reported that between 1990 and 2015 an estimated one hundred and twenty-nine million (129m.) hectares of forest have been lost for a variety of reasons.

Madam Presiding Officer, we at the Tobago House of Assembly, we are taking the initiative now to prevent, preserve and conserve our forest area so that we do not fall into this bracket.

Madam Presiding Officer, I now wish to draw your attention to our tropical reef systems around the island. This includes the North-east Tobago Marine Park Protected Area which covers an estimated fifty-nine thousand, two hundred and eighty (59,280) hectares and extend along the entire coastline strip from Roxborough, on the North-east coast, north to Parlatuvier and on the North-west coast extending towards six (6) nautical miles towards the sea.

52 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, in that area you will find there are several coral reefs around Little Tobago, Goat Island, the numerous rocks out there like the sisters, the brothers extending all the way down and included in that area also is the Kings Bay, Man-of-war Bay and Bloody Bay. Madam Presiding Officer, what we find happening in these areas is that there are - it's an enormous piece of natural real estate owned by the Tobago House of Assembly.

Now the Protected Area System Plan is not to say to the users of the marine space and also the fisherfolks who are listening - you cannot fish in this area or you cannot carry out your tours and your sightseeing in this area.

Madam Presiding Officer, what we have to do is to control the manner in which these activities are being carried out.

For example, in some

countries, Madam Presiding Officer, what would have transpired, legislation would have been put in place for example, for the fisherfolks based on certain species of fish where you cannot catch these fish under a particular weight.

In other words, these fishes would be considered as bait - immature. So, there is a system called, “Catch and Release”. So you catch, you weigh, you catch, you measure, it does not reach up to the required standard and you release back into the wild.

Now, we in Tobago, we would have seen a

problem, and the Officers at the Marine Resources and Fisheries Department

53 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. have been working feverishly to educate the fisherfolk of Tobago as it relates to one (1) of our price fish which we called, “the Dolphin” the “mahi-mahi” and we as consumers, we find it quite easy to say, give me that small dolphin there.

Fishermen call it, “Punier Case Dolphin”.

[Laughter] Madam

Presiding Officer, it was brought to my attention, that what we call a “Punier case Dolphin” that we so like to purchase, is a dolphin that is only three (3) months old. So, it is a babe. Therefore, if we do not put Legislation in place to say listen, “a fish that size you do not catch it because the next coming season you would not be getting the amount of mature fishes that you will need in the next coming season because you would have caught the babes that are supposed to be caught in that next season”. So, with these type of information and data that has already been collected, it is indicating that we should Madam Presiding Officer, support this Motion and declare these areas, designated protected area.

Madam Presiding Officer, in order for us to take an overarching view of why we should go down this road. If we look at the Buccoo Reef Complex, it has been reported that the Buccoo Reef Complex on an annual basis receives over forty-five thousand (45,000) visitors. Whether it has been local, regional or international, that is the data that is present.

It has also been estimated that the Buccoo Reef alone has generated between seven million dollars ($7m.) to eight point eight million dollars ($US8.8m.) annually into our economy in Tobago. So therefore, Madam Presiding Officer, there is an area that we can reflect to that where systems

54 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. have been put in place, to utilize and control our socio-economic development in Tobago. Therefore, there is a pattern there to follow. So in pursuit, we can look back and see over the last forty-five (45) years, our experiences and how we move forward treating with the Buccoo Reef.

For example, the Establishment of a Buccoo Reef Marine Park Preservation and Enhancement Act of 1973 which guided entry and operations in the Marine Park. Madam Presiding Officer, the development of a Buccoo Reef Management Plan by the Institute of Marine Affairs in 1995 as a guide to the Management of the Resources and general operations within the reef complex.

Madam Presiding Officer, the designation of the Buccoo Reef and Bon Accord Complex as a site No. 496 in 2005 under the, Convention of Wetlands – “Ramsar Convention”.

In 2005 again, the Environmental

Management Agency initiated the process of declaring the Buccoo Reef Marine Park as an environmentally sensitive area under the Environment Management Act of 2000.

The founding of the Buccoo Reef Management Committee in 2000 to fast track the implementation requirements of this environmentally sensitive Act. So, Madam Presiding Officer, what we are seeing is that there is a format already set there. If we could so be guided as in the implementing of this protected area North East, we have history that we can refer to.

Madam Presiding Officer, also in the area of Food Production, let me also indicate that the Division of Food Production, Forestry and Fisheries

55 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. would have taken cognizance of good agricultural practices and would have formulated a strategic plan to deal with proper and appropriate clearing preparation of lands for agriculture purposes.

We would have started

Training Programmes in educating our farmers on the judicious use of:  Chemicals;  Pesticides;  Weedicide;  Insecticide; We would have worked alongside with the Aperies Industry and we would have worked again with the fisherfolk of Tobago, training in management and conservation of our fish stock among other factors.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I close, Trinidad and Tobago would have assert this Project guided by a new National Protected Area and Forestry Policy adopted in 2013 and forms part of our debate today.

What I want to end by saying to all of Tobago, is that while we maintain our mantra of keeping Tobago, “Clean, Green, Safe and Serene”, these are some of the Initiatives and Programmes that we must put in place as an Assembly to treat with our natural resources in Tobago, and our protected areas.

Madam Presiding Officer, I fully support this Motion as tabled in the House today. I thank you. [Desk thumping]

56 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Councillor Dr. Faith B. Yisrael.

COUNCILLOR DR. F. B. YISRAEL: Good afternoon Madam Presiding Officer, Members of the House and to the few visitors with us today.

Madam Presiding Officer, this is one day where I will be extremely short (probably the only day), but I will be extremely short. I have read the Motion and I think that in principle, it is trying to do something that is important for Tobago and important for Tobagonians.

This has nothing to do with either of you, this is for Tobago. [Crosstalk] [Laughter] [Desk thumping] Before you continue thumping though, I would like to mention just to have on record that even though this Administration has continually spoken about doing things that are environmentally friendly, when the rubber actually hits the road or when you see what actually has been done and what continues to be done you would see that the actions are contrary to what has been promised.

Madam Presiding Officer, this Administration over the last how many sixteen/seventeen years now has been known for starting projects without the necessary environmental clearances that are needed. Even when those environmentally clearances have been garnered - probably coaxed we can all see that they were not in the best interest of the environment and they were not in the best interest of Tobago.

57 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, I will raise two (2) specific examples and I will speak of those two (2) only. We have the construction on the sea front at both Castara and Charlotteville. Both of them prime examples of us (no, I am not taking any responsibility for this) of you all saying that you want to be environmentally friendly, environmentally responsible but when the rubber hits the road there is proof that you have lied to the people.

Madam Presiding Officer, I use to frequently go to Castara and after missing for a period I remembered driving onto the beach, making that turn towards the beach and being confronted by the monstrosity that is, whatever that thing is being constructed on the beach front in Castara, blocking one of the most beautiful sceneries in Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, honestly when I saw it I was surprised because I heard about it, I heard that the villagers were complaining about it.

I saw the reports on television but it is one thing to hear about it and it is another thing to actually see it for yourself.

Madam Presiding Officer, I have also spoken to some of the villagers in Castara and they mentioned that even though they complained about the building and they complained about how it was being constructed and they complained about the fact that it was ruining the beach front that they were promised that the building would be covered with a material that makes it fit in with the scenery a little better. That is yet to happen. As a matter of fact, they were equally surprised when they saw that paint was simply being

58 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. placed on the building showing that there was no intention to cover it with anything more beautiful than the concrete.

Madam Presiding Officer, this (and my Political Leader mentioned it) PNM-led Administration is led by a man who very callously, very, very callously said that in essence he does not care about the hairy crab in the Buccoo area when all of the environmentalist, when all of the people who were concerned about whether that is where Sandals was going to be built or not were throwing up their arms and saying, you know this is a very important area, this is a Ramesar area and it needs to be protected.

When

the man who leads that Political Party got up and said in a meeting that he does not care about the hairy crab very much like the last sitting those who were seated around thumped their desk and agreed with the plans as outlined there.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I said at the beginning, I am going to be very short. We agreed that the Tobago space needs to be protected. In fact, there were discussions about all of the laws and so forth that that needs to be done in a very comprehensive, cohesive manner to ensure that all of the misinterpretations and all of the conflicts are not in place and we need to do that at all cost.

But Madam Presiding Officer, as was suggested

and

because we have in Tobago, seventeen (17) years of history to learn from because we have seen that even though something is said even publicly when it comes to really implementing it what is said and what is done is very different.

59 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

I will reiterate the call of my Political Leader and this is a simple request. We are asking that, one little paragraph in the entire Motion be modified so that when the decisions are made it is made by the Executive Council in collaboration with the Minority Council. That is all we are asking for. That is not that difficult and if your intentions are really honest, and if your intentions are really true, that simple request can be honoured and we will be very happy probably for the first time since we have been sitting here to all agree on something because it is what is best for the people of Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, I thank you.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

It has come to my attention that

Councillor Nadine Stewart-Phillips has been injured and would not be able to present this afternoon and so we will go directly to Assemblyman Farley Augustine, the Representative for Parlatuvier/L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

MR.

FARLEY

AUGUSTINE

(Parlatuvier/L'AnseFourmi/Speyside):

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you.

Madam Presiding Officer, I think that those opposite might perhaps it is a little bit of shock why the seemingly behaving surprised, unresponsive to us being magnanimous to use a word from my good friend from Bacolet/Mt. St. George. perspective. Not

But I want to take this from a very personal

60 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. because I am narcissistic but because I live in the most beautiful part of the island and I can argue without fear of losing that argument that my electoral district is the most naturally beautiful of all the electoral districts and I believe people will agree with that. What we own does not belong to us alone but it belongs to all of Tobago.

Being a resident in the area, we see ourselves (I can say for a fact that) as stewards of that which belongs to all of this island.

I also want to take this from the perspective of sustainable development, which is important. Sustainable development more or less, is developing in a way that tomorrow’s generation, fifteen (15) years down the road more even, can still develop using the resources and the methods that we have. So, we have to be always guarded about how we should chart our development.

When the Tobago House of Assembly first pushed the mantra of “Clean, Green, Safe and Serene”, I was hoping (I was not in the politics then) for an even larger push in terms of environmental consciousness; in terms of how we manage our tourism sector especially; in terms of ensuring that we harnessed our natural resources in a more environmentally friendly manner. I have seen since then, that many times we talk about sustainable development; many times we talk about safeguarding the environment as this Motion does, and then we do things far contrary to the fact. The Speaker before me spoke about some of them.

61 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

At my first meeting with the CTDA (that is within one (1) week of being inaugurated) Castara Tourism Development Agency. Yes, that is my first meeting with them as a group. You know what they spoke about? They spoke about the building on the beach, and that they were promised that it would be clanny in wood. So I felt a need to mention that because I heard the snickering and the whispering when Dr. Yisrael mentioned it. I am sure my good friend, Councillor Des Vignes know folks from that Committee that he could call and Whatsapp to ask if that is indeed the case.

But this Motion, we agree! We agree in principle, is a good Motion.

We agree that the intention is good, but we also note that often times, “The road to hell is paved with very good intentions”. So we have to safeguard ourselves in that regard.

I want to go straight to the amendment we are proposing. Let me tell you why we are proposing this amendment. We are proposing that we ask the Executive and the Minority Councils to create a Committee that should act as an oversight for the development and adoption of the, “Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan”. Here is why?

1. If we are going to create a System of Parks for example, if we are going to create a registry of Parks for example; if we are going to go about demarcating certain areas and making them ultraprotected areas, then we feel that a Committee of this House should have that oversight, as opposed to just a Committee outside or external of this House.

62 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

2. We also feel strongly, that if in Tobago we are going to champion the cause of the environment, then why not let us be novelled.

Why not let us be the first House in the Commonwealth to have a Parliamentary Committee specially dedicated to these environmental issues?

That in itself, sends a very strong message to all of Tobago that look, we are more serious than coming here, passing Motions that sounds nice and then we do not get much out of it.

I remembered when the former Secretary, he was Secretary at the time for Agriculture and the Environment, the former Member of this House Hilton Sandy, spoke extensively about creating that Marine Park in the Speyside Area.

It was past here, I know it was to go to Trinidad, for

Cabinet to do their final doing. It still has not happened. But when that happened, a group of us in Speyside we ran we formed the Speyside EcoMarine Park Rangers. We started doing training; we started doing Reef Monitoring for free; we did Educational Programmes; we even got a small fund from the UN (United Nations) and we did Documentaries infomercials, we had stuff on the Radio and we did all of this, including taking our own monies and flying to St. Lucia to look at how their Marine Park operate hoping that yes that will happen, hoping that when this happen it will result in a far larger fish take for our fishermen; we will have larger in terms of quantity; and larger in terms of quality of the fish; Guess what? Nothing has happened!

How do we ensure that this time, this is not just about forming a

Committee somewhere; to manage some plan somewhere and ten (10) years from now, nothing happens.

Ten (10) years from now people are just

63 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. indiscriminately going into the rainforest and just hunting and just doing all manner of madness.

In fact, over the Carnival weekend while my Colleagues on both sides, some of my Colleagues were enjoying the Carnival experience, I was out camping in Bloody Bay and walking on trails in the rainforest. I could remember at one point when we got back onto the main road, the Tour Guide pointed to a precipice. When I went and I looked, my heart dropped to see the amount of garbage just dump over there. It is dumped in a place that is almost treacherous. I do not know how we will even get the stuff up out of there. It shows that there is a need for us to awaken a consciousness about the environment and for us to do more to protect what we have and that clearly the systems that we do have are not working as efficiently as they should. So, it begs the question of where are our Forest Rangers. How do they work? I heard about Litter Wardens earlier, how effective is that Programme? How do we get them to be even more effective?

Then Madam Presiding Officer, we also saw recently the development of the North East Management Trust Board. I see that this Board is meant to look at the North Eastern Part of Tobago, which of course includes our Rainforest, and to ensure that the area is protected. Now, my only problem with that Committee is that I wish and I put it on record for the Secretary with the responsibility to note it and perhaps take it to Executive Council and do something about it, I would have loved to see someone from Bloody Bay on that Committee. I note happily that Mr. Taylor from Castara is on that Committee, but I would have loved to see someone from Bloody Bay

64 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. there. Simply because when the people who live closest to the issue are involved, then they tend to direct these Committees along the right path.

Now, the final thing I want to add is, that there should be nothing to fear about there being a Committee including both sides looking at these environmental issues, and treating with the “Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan�. There is no harm in that. Yes, we have the North East Management Trust Board, but there is no harm in us having that Committee. In fact, it sends a even more powerful message, that we are doing more than just passing Motions in the House, but that we are willing of ourselves give up a little more of our time, even if that time is once a month or once every two (2) months to meet as a Committee and to oversee this thing and to give it some oversight. Without that, we are afraid that: (1)

The nothing could happen; or

(2)

Abuses can happened.

So, we have to ensure that this happens, we have to ensure that this does not go the way of the Speyside Marine Park that was supposed to happen.

We have to ensure that this does not go the way of Goat Island. We just have it there rotting away. We have to ensure that this does not go the way of so many of our other areas that should be protected and treated with dignity and respect by us all getting involved in a more direct way.

65 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

I hope that those opposite could understand how magnanimous we are. Assemblyman Jack, I am hoping that those opposite could understand how ready we are to work with them on this. Because we are, we are ready to work with them on this and we look forward to the amendment being passed and we look forward to all of us sitting together and working this out piece by piece and ensuring that this beautiful island we call, “Tobago” remains protected.

I thank you. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Councillor Kwesi Des Vignes. [Desk thumping] LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT (Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes): Madam Presiding Officer, thank you. I am happy that the Minority Leader took the opportunity to get back into the House so I could give him some advice. You have two ears and one mouth for a reason.

Do twice the amount of listening than you do talking!

MR. W. DUKE: Open your eyes when you are talking.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is I would have gone into significant depth on trying to let the Minority Leader understand what it is that we are trying to protect and for him to even ask that question means that he clearly was not listening. Or it may mean that as he said, he does not understand and if you do not understand we could have

66 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. tutorials afterwards, I have no problem. My experience as a Teacher, I can definitely teach him a thing or two (2). [Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is, what the Minority missed again is that there has already been significant public consultation. As a matter of fact, while you were busy swimming we were consulting.

[Laughter] There was an occasion recently where I was even in Charlotteville for a Public Consultation hosted by the people at FAO and I was happy to see all of the communities from Castara, across to Speyside, all the way up to Charlotteville there in the Library at Charlotteville.

The Member for

Parliament for Tobago East was there. We all took our time to be there and I was sitting and hoping and waiting that I would have seen the area Representative Mr. Augustine there but he was not. I am wondering, we are talking about you want to be part of a Committee - fine. Committees that the Minority Leader would have said time and time again he is fed up of?

They do not want to be part of a Code of Conduct Committee, they do not want to be part of any Committee to ensure that we have proper transportation arrangements in place.

They do not want to be part of

Committees and all of a sudden they want to be part of a Committee.

Madam Presiding Officer, so the reality is there has been significant and widespread public consultation already. As a matter of fact, surveys would have been done and show that people especially north-east Tobago

67 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Speyside in particular and I am happy that the Assemblyman opposite mentioned it and those disappointing that the Speyside Marine Park did not materialize.

We are now looking forward to the designation of the North-east Marine Park and that is what the Public Consultation in Charlotteville was about - what should the boundaries be.

I do not want anyone to go away

with the false impression that it is just the Assembly picking up tomorrow and say well, we want to protect Market Square and it is Market Square we are going to designate as a protected area. That is not how it is done. A system being put in place and again, we have had a Public Consultation. We have had an International Partner on board through the FAO; the IFPAM Committee, the Integrated Forest and Protected Area Management Committee which is a Co-Management Committee that includes NonGovernmental Organizations (NGOs) from the South-Eastern tip all the way to the North-Eastern tip. They were the ones who came up with the concept they say, "Hey, let us start based on our lessons that we have learned, based on our experiences, based on the things that went well, based on the things that did not go so well, let us start with this North-east Tobago Protected Area Management Trust and that is how the Trust was formed.

I am happy again that the Minority Assemblyman is paying attention.

Yes, we have the President of the Castara Tourism Development Association as the Deputy Chairman of the North-east Protected Area Trust because we recognize the importance of co-management. Again, it is not a Political football as Mr. Spencer would have said. Let us not take it that anybody in

68 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. this House wants control. The environment is all of Tobago's business, it is everybody's business so do not feel that we need to grab it up and form a Committee of this House – no! That is not the approach.

We have independent Consultants on the ground, we have Technical Experts, we have the NGOs, we have the special Interest groups, we have the community groups. Let them come together, let them decide what we should do, those are the people, Tobagonians are the ones to decide where we go from here, where we should protect and where we should start protecting more and how we should protect it. So do not let us get myopic, do not let us get arrogant and believe that it is about us having control or we should have control in this House - that is not the way forward. Let me just clarify some misinformation again.

A house was not brought on Goat Island. The island was purchased for the benefit of preserving the reef that exist there. It is a sheltered piece of real estate so the island was not bought because we want a house, a fancy house as a getaway island that is not the reason why the piece of property was brought. So let us not go giving the wrong impression.

St. Giles that we have has the largest frigid bird population in this part of the world. Those are things and reasons why we should protect and yes, there are different types of protection and that is why we want to say, "Hey, let us have one uniform system of protection and we are not going to be the ones to say, protect (a) or (b), or (c), or (d), let us work together with communities to have them do the consultation, make the proposals, follow

69 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. the guidelines, the technical specifications and let us look at how we can go forward.�

Madam Presiding Officer, so, I really want us to understand the significance and I am happy that in principle the Minority is saying, "Yes," to this Motion because they do understand finally that we are working significant details, significant policies, significant exercises to ensure that we can put in place different systems of managing our Tobago space.

I wish the Minority had come on board when we said let us start reducing noise pollution in Tobago. I am happy to report to this House that a particular establishment that was notorious for noise pollution in the Southwest has been given strict guidelines by a Magistrate because the same Environmental Police Officers that the Minority Assemblyman is imputing not doing a good enough job were on spot to get the records to go to the Court House, made every single appearance and representation to ensure that the people of southwest Tobago can have some sort of reprieve. So I must say commendations to the Environmental Police right here in Tobago.

[Desk thumping] We are not sleeping on the job we are doing what is necessary to protect our land space, to protect our environment.

Madam Presiding Officer, I do not believe that there is too much reason again to go on but because Councillor Nadine Stewart-Phillips would have missed her presentation it would be remiss of me again not to mention

70 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. that we have to take special interest in how we preserve our environment for us here in Tobago, first and foremost so that other persons, tourist and otherwise can also enjoy our environment of all that Tobago has to offer.

Madam Presiding Officer, as we end this debate I want to emphasize that it is not about politicizing the environment. We cannot want to grab and hold and say, this is, let us do this. That is not the way forward.

The way

forward is wide reaching consultation with the public. I would encourage Members of the Minority – I would have seen the Minority Councillor taking part in some beach clean-ups. That is a good thing. Bring the Youth Group that you are affiliated with to the Public Consultation. I have seen the Minority Assemblyman previously working with groups in Speyside.

Ensure that you are there at the Consultation so that we can all work whether it is PNM, PDP or whoever you want to call yourself today or tomorrow, we are ensuring that there is proper wide reaching consultation with the communities, the Special Interest Groups, the Technocrats, the NGOs and everyone. That is the approach we are taking with the Northeast Tobago Protected Area Management Trust that we have brought together all sectors of society, Madam Presiding Officer. The NGOs, the business sector and of course, the Government Sector.

Madam Presiding Officer, at this point in time I do not believe that I need to oversell what we are trying to achieve but I just want to say that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Having a system of this nature is just a tip of iceberg. Putting these steps in place is just the beginning. We have to start

71 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. encouraging a different type of behaviour in our communities. A different type of behaviour that is about responsibility because it is always easy to point fingers and say, “Well who go and clean this up?�

The Minority Assemblyman spoke about garbage being thrown over a precipice.

I am ;pretty sure that Mr. Jack did not throw it there or

Assemblyman Spencer did not throw it there and I am hoping that Assemblyman Augustine did not throw it there either. But it means that somebody did throw it there and we have to work together to ensure that we modify these types of behaviour and that we start putting co-management arrangements in place so that persons can really start to grasp the significance of the environment. One other thing I want to clarify before we wrap up.

Under the seven (7) different proposed classifications, there are different levels of protection. I do not want the Minority, especially the Minority Leader to go outside and tell people that the Tobago House of Assembly is land grabbing because you know that persons in here can be sensationalist. We have to be very responsible in how we approach this particular issue. I am really happy that the Minority is finally trying to get on board, instead of trying to disrupt and instead of trying to mislead.

We were doing some similar exercises with the Quarry and the Minority went about and saying that we were privatizing and sending persons home, and then still trying to come back and saying that you want to work with me. So, I am happy that you are beginning to see the light on the other side.

I continue to make myself available to the Minority for

72 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m. consultation as well. We are open for discussion on this side, because we want the best for Tobago.

So Madam Presiding Officer, at this time I do rest. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Members, before we put the question we have an amendment before us. The recommendation is to go to the section of “BE IT RESOLVED…” and remove the following: “BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the Executive Council in developing and adopting a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan”. and replace with: BE IT RESOLVED that this House vote on a Committee comprising both the Executive and Minority Council to have oversite and direction over the development and adoption of a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan .

Amendment proposed.

Amendment negatived.

MR. W. DUKE: Division.

The House divided: NOES: 7 AYES: ABSTENTIONS

0

NOES: Des Vignes, Councillor K.

3 ABSENTEEISMS 6

73 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

Jack, Hon. J. Spencer, Hon. H. Pitt, Hon. J. Jacob, Mr. C. Cunningham, Mr. S. Osmond, Ms. M. AYES Augustine, Mr. F. Duke, Mr. W. Yisrael Councillor Dr. F. B. ABSENTEEISMS Charles, Mr. K Charles Stewart-Phillips, Hon. N. Melville-Jack, Hon. M. Carrington, Hon. Dr. A. Hector, Mr. S. Dennis, Mr. D MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The amendments will not be carried.

“WHEREAS the unique environment of Tobago directly support the livelihood of Tobagonians engaged in various activities including farming, fishing and tourism; AND WHEREAS formal efforts to protect our environment began as early as 1776 when the British Parliament officially declared the Main Ridge as a Forest Reserve;

74 2018.02.22 ES 1.32 – 1.42 p.m.

AND WHEREAS through a series of collaborative efforts with international, regional and national bodies, the Tobago House of Assembly has been actively involved in preserving and protecting our environment for our present and future generations; BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the Executive Council in developing and adopting a Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan; AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that pursuant to the adoption of the Tobago Protected Area System Plan, the Main Ridge Forest Reserve be officially declared as the first designated protected area; AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that other ecologically sensitive areas be adopted on a phased basis under the proposed Tobago Protected Area Systems Plan.�

Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The Motion is now carried.

ADJOURNMENT

Motion made: That this House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed.

[Hon. K. Des Vignes] Question put and agreed to.

House adjourned accordingly.

Adjourned at 4.20 p.m.