Unrevised Hansard-14th Sitting (2017-2021)

Announcements

TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, APRIL 26TH, 2018 The House met at 1.33 p.m.

PRAYERS [MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER in the Chair] ANNOUNCEMENTS STATEMENTS OF PRIVILEGE MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Members, on February 22nd, 2018 two (2) Statements of Privilege were brought to this Honourable House. The first was brought by the Leader of Assembly Business and the other by the Member for Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside. Both Statements sought that their matter be referred to the Committee of Privilege for further investigation and evaluation.

In this regard, careful consideration and

deliberation on both matters were done in determining whether prima facie cases exist and today, these rulings will be present. I will begin by providing a brief historical context of what constitutes privilege within the House.

Erskine May, 2004 Parliamentary Practices outlines that parliamentary privilege is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House, collectively as a constituent part of the High Court of Parliament and by each Member individually. These privileges allow for a certain rights and immunity such as freedom from arrest or freedom of Speech, power to punish for contempt and the power to regulate. May goes further to assert when these rights and 2 2018.04.26 D.C 1.33 – 1.43 p.m.

Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

immunities are disregarded or attacked the offence is called, “A Breach” and is punishable under the law of Parliament.

As Presiding Officer, or guardian of this Honourable House, I have been charged with the responsibility to address any breach of Parliament when rights and immunities have been disregarded within the House.

According to Standing Order (9) subsection (1) which states, “The Presiding Officer, has the power to regulate the conduct of business in all matters not provided for in the Standing Orders. Powers though are not arbitrary and must be guided by information and/or precedence and executed cautiously.”

Consequently, I choose as my first order of guidance, May 2004 and the recommendations made by the Committee of Privileges that and I quote: “In general the House should exercise its penal jurisdiction in any event as sparingly as possible.” I will now discuss the ruling of each matter as follows: As mentioned earlier, the Leader of Assembly Business presented the matter of Privilege stating that the Minority Councillor, Dr. Faith B.Yisrael on two (2) occasions at a Press Conference dated Tuesday 6th

February, 2018 and the other within the February 8 th, 2018 edition of the Tobago Newsday. She made statements that sought and I quote

“To

bring the Members of the House into public odium and disrepute by imputing improper motives contrary to the oaths taken in this House.”

3 2018.04.26 D.C 1.33 – 1.43 p.m.

Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

The Leader of Assembly Business went on to allege, “that the Minority

Councillor statements were intended to bring harm to the good

reputation of a Member of this House after the Member would have stood in this House providing personal explanations.

To determine Contempt or Breach of Privileges by a Member, that Member must have committed the Contempt. The Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago notes under Practice and Procedure of the Committee of Privileges, documents, the main contemptuous situations

of Parliament as follows: 1.

Misconduct in the presence of the House;

2.

Disobedience to rules or orders of the House.

3.

Misconduct by Members or Officers;

4.

Constructive contempt and the examples given are reflecting negatively on the House or premature publication of Committee Proceedings; and

5.

Obstructing Members, Officers, or witnesses when discharging their duties.

From the list, it is evident that the statement presented by the Leader of

Assembly Business alleges constructive contempt where according to May, 2004, such acts of abuse tend to obstruct the Houses in the performance of there functions by diminishing the respect due to

them.

Furthermore, May again in discussing contempt describes it as “Any act or omission which obstructs or impedes either House of

Parliament in the performance of its functions or which obstructs or impedes any 4 2018.04.26 D.C 1.33 – 1.43 p.m.

Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

Member or Officer of such House in the discharge of his duty or which

has a tendency directly or indirectly to produce such results

maybe

treated as a contempt even though there is no precedence of the

offence.

It is therefore, impossible to list every act which might be

considered to amount to contempt, the power to punish for such an offence being of its nature discretionary.

Honourable Members, I also make reference to the recent ruling on the

September 16th

Anisette-

2017, the Speaker of the House, Mrs. Bridget

George made on the Privilege Motion moved against the Prime

Minister, Dr. the Honourable Keith Rowley. The Speaker was faced with a similar ruling likened to what we face today and she quoted from Gladstone’s contribution on a Breach of Privilege Debate in the House of Commons. I quote:

“A breach of Privilege is a very wide net and it would be very undesirable that notice should be taken in this House of all cases in which Honourable Members are unfairly criticized.

Breach of Privilege is not exactly to be defined. It is rather to be held in the air to

be exercised on proper occasions

when in the opinion of the House a fit case for its exercise occurs. To put this weapon unduly enforced is

to invite a

combat upon unequal terms wheresover and by whomsoever carried on. Indeed, it is absolutely necessary that there should be freedom of comment.”

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No.41, Member for Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

THE ORIGINAL MAIN RIDGE CANOPY TOUR (Project Update and Expenditure)

41.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE asked the Secretary of Tourism, Culture and

Transportation the following question: “The immediate past Secretary with responsibility for tourism in September 2015 announced that there will be “The Original Main Ridge Canopy Tour” to “begin at the reserve’s reception center and run

to the Gilpin Trace Trailhead”. The announced 1.5kilometer zip line was to give visitors fresh views of part of the 4,000 hectare tropical forest and a grand opening was scheduled for November 14 th, 2015. It was estimated then that over half a million US dollars was to go into creating this tour. To date this project has not materialized. Can the current Secretary for Tourism, Culture and Transportation give this House: (a)

an update on the status of this project?

(b)

the total amount of monies spent by the THA (if any) on this project? and

(c)

an indication of whether or not this current Executive Council is desirous of continuing with this said zip line project?”

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Secretary of Tourism, Culture and Transportation.

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d)

HON. N. STEWART-PHILLIPS (Cont’d)

SECRETARY OF TOURISM, CULTURE AND TRANSPORTATION (Hon. Nadine Stewart-Phillips):

Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, the Executive Council of the Tobago House of Assembly on December 17th, 2014, granted approval for the then Division of Tourism and Transportation to establish a Canopy Tour in the Main Ridge Forest Reserve.

The proposed Canopy Tour as approved in 2014 should comprise of a maximum of 12 – 14 platforms and 11 – 13 traverse lines, a special observation platform for bird watchers and photographers to last a duration of 1 – 2 hours tour.

The sum of four million TT dollars ($4m.TT) was approved to undertake this project which was expected to be completed within seven (7) weeks of materials arriving on sight.

Madam Presiding Officer, a Service Agreement was signed in June, 2015 between the Tobago House of Assembly and Original Canopy Tours Enterprises Limited to design, develop and construct a high angle Canopy Tour course in the Main Ridge Forest Reserve. Officials from the Original Canopy Tour Enterprises Limited visited Tobago in September 2015 to map out the Canopy Tour Course.

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. N. STEWART-PHILLIPS (Cont’d)

The Division of Tourism and Transportation paid two (2) of the four (4) instalment payments to Original Canopy Tour Enterprise Limited as per signed agreement. The first payment was in the sum of two hundred and seventy-seven thousand dollars ($277,000.00) for materials and equipment and one hundred and seventeen thousand dollars ($117,000.00) again for materials, equipment and shipping as per signed agreement. However, all materials have not been received as they are stored at a facility in Miami, Florida.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am informed that a decision was taken to have all materials shipped together rather than in separate shipments as the equipment and material will usually arrive at different time intervals. This incurred a storage fee of an estimated one hundred and eight thousand, three hundred and thirty-two US dollars (US$108,332.00) which is due to be paid.

To date, the Division expended the sum of four hundred and sixteen thousand dollars ($416,000.00) paid to Original Canopy Tours Enterprises Limited for materials, equipment and the forty foot insulated shipping container and TT one hundred and ninety-two thousand, five hundred and seventy-one

dollars

($192,571.00)

which

represents

payment

for

Procurement Project Management Services undertaken by EIDCOT (Eco-

Industrial Development Company of Tobago Limited) and other expenses associated when the visit to Tobago done by Original Canopy Tours Enterprises Limited.

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. N. STEWART-PHILLIPS (Cont’d)

Madam Presiding Officer the project is currently on hold, due to the reduction in the Tobago House of Assembly’s Budgetary Allocation and the Canopy Tour was not identified as one of the priority projects to be undertaken during Fiscal 2017/2018.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: Madam Secretary, given that you are indicating that the project is now on hold, can you give any indication as to what the Tobago House of Assembly or your Division will do with the materials already being stored in Miami?

HON. N. STEWART-PHILLIPS:

Madam Presiding Officer, as we

continue to review our projects we will make a final decision with what we will do with the materials stored in Miami.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No. 46 by the Minority Leader.

MONTHLY PAID WORKERS EMPLOYED WITHIN THE TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY (Total Contracted Workers and Public Servants) 46.

MR. WATSON DUKE asked the Chief Secretary and Secretary of

Education, Innovation and Energy the following question:

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) MR. W. DUKE (Cont’d)

“Provide the total number of monthly paid workers within the Tobago House of Assembly, identifying: (a)

How many are employed via temporarily (contract workers) compared to those who have been appointed permanently via the

Public Service Commission (public servants).”

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Honourable Chief Secretary and Secretary of Education, Innovation and Energy.

HON. CHIEF SECRETARY AND SECRETARY OF EDUCATION, INNOVATION AND ENERGY: (Hon. Kelvin Charles): Thank you very much, Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, more time is needed for a complete research of this question in order to provide accurate information to this House.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No.47 to the Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment by the Minority Leader.

UNEMPLOYMENT RELIEF PROGRAMME (URP) – 2018 (Number of Persons returned with Full Employment and Partial Employment) 47.

MR. WATSON DUKE asked the Secretary of Infrastructure,

Quarries and the Environment the following question:

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) MR. W. DUKE (Cont’d)

“The Tobago House of Assembly (THA) conducted a verification exercise for workers in the Unemployment Relief Programme (URP).

Resumption of full employment should have begun on 1 st March, 2018. Please indicate: (a)

how many people returned with full employment (working two consecutive fortnights per month): and

(b)

how many people returned with partial employment (working one fortnight per month)?�

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment.

SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT: [Hon. K. Des Vignes]

Thank you Madam Presiding

Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, I stand to answer this question, though the premise is completely flawed.

At no time did the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment indicate that there is resumption of employment on March 01.

As a matter of fact Madam Presiding Officer, stories of the day for March 02, 2018, indicates that, and I am reading from the fourth paragraph of the release:

“The Environment Programme and Women’s Programme which includes:

 The maintenance of beaches;  Parks; and  Public spaces

will be rotated on a fortnightly basis.

In addition more workers would be placed in the Agriculture Programme to bolster food production on the island”.

As such Madam Presiding Officer, the premise of the question is flawed.

However, I am pleased this afternoon to respond to the query by

the Minority Leader.

Madam Presiding Officer, let me at this time thank the Chief Secretary for his astute leadership, as it is with great success that the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment and the Management of the URP (Unemployment Relief Programme) have enjoyed in restoring the Programme to a place where it serves its purpose that it was intended to accomplish. That is, to provide relief to individuals who find themselves or are in distress in financial and social difficulties or have a special need; those that are genuinely disenfranchised or render vulnerable as a result.

Therefore, Madam Presiding Officer, for a Social Safety Net as URP, the social philosophy of what URP Tobago is, now speaks progressively about:

 engagement of vulnerable social groups;  their empowerment through training and capacity building;’  their ability to return benefit to the Tobago economy; and  critically become self-sufficient and transit towards better social standing.

It is only then that URP can truly boast of fulfilling its mandate and ultimately restoring the confidence of the Tobago people.

At the beginning of the year, the Division set out to challenge the status quo and re-engineered the operations of URP.

The verification

process has allowed us to quantify the skills set and training needs of those engaged in the Programme.

But more importantly Madam Presiding

Officer, the management was unable to structure the Programme in ways that have already realized greater levels of efficiency in each component while drawing the dynamic capabilities existing within Public and Private Partnerships in light of fiscal realities.

The using of Project Management approach URP teams are now better structured and staff giving consideration to:

 Construction skills requirements;  The nature of the work plan: and  Physical capacity of the work space.

Given these work plans URP has utilized an employment framework which sees three (3) phases being implemented based on need public demand for labour and availability of resources by private citizens to sustain a self-help project.

Further, URP is instilling quality into the Programme and has insisted on the return for public investment through various revenue streams in:

 Agriculture;  The construction and the sale of concrete products; and  Furniture and wooden fittings on a local and national market.

Today, the Division has shared in a Tripartite Agreement with the Division of Community Development, Enterprise Development and Labour as well as the Division of Food Production, Forestry and Fisheries to see the participation of persons within URP in efforts to restore and enhance Agriculture in Tobago. It is an endeavour to attend to its heritage to feed its people and Trinidad by extension.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am pleased to announce that the Seedling Sale Project under the URP has been reintroduced with great success, thereby encouraging demand forecasting and we are now better able to assess the needs of Tobago.

Under the agro-based Capacity Building Training, thirty-seven (37) persons of the URP Programme in the East were afforded the opportunity to be trained in Commercial Composting and Plant Nursery Management and marketing. Already training in:

 Sexual plan propagation;  Horticulture and Ornamental Production; and  Marketing

are scheduled for fifty (50) participants from the Women’s and Environment Programme in the East in May.

Further Madam Presiding Officer, it would pleased this House to know, that it was only this morning that workers in East Environmental Programme began harvesting approximately twenty (20) square metres of cocoa under cultivation as part of the Cocoa Rehabilitation Project.

Altogether, what these types of exposure means for us in Tobago are:

 Capacity building in Agriculture;  The rise in Agriculture related business;

 Increased ornamental production in ornamental plants  Revenue generations from sale to local chocolate producers,

 Home Gardeners; and  Farmers.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is important to note that a significant number of women in the Programme have expressed interest in Agricultural training. In turn, they are to served as advocates in rekindling Agricultural Projects in the Primary Schools and in the Communities.

These women

though a party of our most vulnerable group has by their efforts demonstrated their ambition and their commitment to contribute in a significant way to our island’s development.

Further, Madam Presiding Officer, I must commend and congratulate at this time, the Secretary and by extension of the Division of Community Enterprise Development and Labour who has made a commitment to ensure that women who have successfully completed training in this Tripartite Training Agreement, will be afforded the opportunity to access Grants and Loans for business development. While there are only sixty-nine (69) in training at this time, the fruits of their labour is expected to redound to the benefit of our economy. They are part of the two hundred and thirty-one women (231) registered women in the Women’s Programme that have all been engaged.

They serve as Cleaners and Guardians to the infant

population in our schools.

Overall Madam Presiding Officer, a total of one thousand, five hundred and seventy-five (1,575) individuals are engaged in URP. To date, six hundred and eighty-two (682) persons are enrolled in the Programme, are engaged full time in:  Construction;  Revenue Units; and  Administrative Units.

In regards to partial employment, currently eight hundred and ninetythree (893); that is two hundred and thirty-one (231) women and six hundred and sixty-two (662) environmental employment employees are employed on an alternating fortnightly basis. However, Madam Presiding Officer, with the ramping up of our Agriculture and revenue generating efforts, a total of two hundred and ten (210) individuals are to be reassigned to these areas in June and will be employed on a full time basis.

These include:  Sixty-nine (69) persons from the Women’s Programme;  Thirty-one (31) from Environment West;  Seventy (70) from Environment North; and  Forty (40) from the Environment East Programmes

Madam Presiding Officer, I trust that my Colleagues, Tobago and the Minority team are pleased not only by the information presented but more

so by the substantial efforts by the Management of the URP and the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment to transform this social mechanism into a necessary and productive feature of Tobago society and economy.

At the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment, we are committed to delivering, quality works for you.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Question No. 48 by the Minority

Leader.

ROXBOROUGH SPORTING COMPLEX (Naming of the Complex “Cyd Gray Sporting Complex”)

48.

MR. W. DUKE: asked the Chief Secretary and Secretary of

Education, Innovation and Energy the following question:

“At completion, it was promised that the Roxborough Sporting Complex would be officially named the “Cyd Gray Sporting Complex”. To date, the official naming ceremony has not been held, and the complex does not bear the name.

(a)

What are the plans of the Executive Council to rectify such?”

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Chief Secretary and Secretary of

Education, Innovation and Energy.

HONOURABLE CHIEF SECRETARY AND SECRETARY OF EDUCATION, INNOVATION AND ENERGY [Hon. K. Charles]: Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Our research Madam Presiding Officer, does not support the contention that a promise was made at completion, but it does support the view that a commitment was made to name the Complex, “The Cyd Gray Sporting Complex”. As a result Madam Presiding Officer, this Executive Council shall execute the promise.

However, Madam Presiding Officer, there are some repairs that needs to be done to the Complex, instructions have been given so that engineering works can be done, preceded of course by the necessary Estimates and Budgetary allocation.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No:49 by the Member for Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

MANTA LODGE AND SANCTUARY VILLAS RESORT (Update re Renovation and Opening, Timeline for Completion, List of Contractors and Total cost incurred to date) 49.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE asked the Secretary of Tourism, Culture and

Transportation the following question: “In 2014 the Tobago House of Assembly purchased Manta Lodge and Sanctuary Villas Resort for 32 million dollars. In 2015 the THA through the use of brochures at the World Travel Market in the UK advertised that Manta Lodge will open in the first quarter of 2016 and the Sanctuary Villas Resort will be renamed the Tobago Great House Resort and Spa will be opened in Fall of 2016. To date neither hotels have been built or renovated and opened. Can the Secretary for Tourism, Culture and Transportation give this House: (a)

An update on both hotels and in so doing provide a timeline for completion of these projects;

(b)

A list of contractors hired for redeveloping both hotels;

(c)

The amount of monies spent to date on Manta Lodge and Sanctuary Villas Resorts respectively.�

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Secretary of Tourism, Culture and Transportation.

SECRETARY OF TOURISM, CULTURE AND TRANSPORTATION (Hon. Nadine Stewart-Phillips): Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. In response to part (a) of this question.

Madam Presiding Officer, due to the unavailability of funds the upgrade to Manta Lodge and Sanctuary Resort were not completed as per the initial arrangement. Given the lapse in time, the Division is reviewing both projects to determine the new cost required to complete both properties.

Part (b) of the question: Madam Presiding Officer, the Division of Tourism and Transportation engaged the services of EIDCOT (Eco-Industrial Development Company Tobago Limited) for project Procurement and Management Services for both Manta Lodge and Sanctuary Resort. Based on information received from EIDCOT the following contractors were engaged for the Manta Lodge project:  EFM Hospitality Solutions/NEF and JM Associates Incorporated for architectural services.  Al JS Transport and Equipment Rentals for cleaning services.  Gardiner and Associates Engineering Services for Cadastral and Topographical Services.

 Lorriston Lewis Associates Limited for Engineering Services and Construction Administration

for

the

Project

and

Premier

Construction Services.

 MI4 Security Services Company for provision of security services for the property.

The following Contractors were engaged for Sanctuary Resort:  SCC Landscaping for brush clearing services.  Dominion Security Services Limited for provision of security services for the property.  Professional Cuts and Maintenance Limited for clearing of large trees, brush and power wash services.

 EFM Hospitality Solutions.  NEF and JM Associates Incorporated for architectural services.  Antoine and Associates Surveys Limited for Cadastral and Topographical Services.

Madam Presiding Officer, Part (c) the Division of Tourism and Transportation spent:

 Seventeen million, eight hundred and forty-four thousand, one hundred and eighty-four dollars ($17,844,184.00) on Manta Lodge.  Eight million dollars ($8m.) to Development Finance Limited for purchase of the property; and

 Nine million, eight hundred and forty-four thousand, one hundred and eighty-four dollars and eighty cents ($9,844,184.80) to EIDCOT for Project Procurement and Management Services.

In addition:  Twenty-seven million, four hundred and seventy-four thousand, four

hundred

and

nine

dollars

and

thirty-three

cents

($27,474,409.33) spent on Sanctuary Resort.  Twenty-four million ($24m.) to DFL for purchase of the property; and  Three million, four hundred and seventy-four thousand, four hundred and nine dollars and thirty-three cents ($3,474,409.33) to EIDCOT for Project Procurement and Management Service.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Question No.50 by the Member for Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

LITTLE TOBAGO ISLAND (Boat to Transport Workers to Upkeep Island and Whereabouts of Previous Boat) 50.

MR. FARLEY AUGUSTINE asked the Secretary of Food of Food

Production and Fisheries the following question:

“The workers that are responsible for the upkeep of Little Tobago have been without a boat to take them to the island to conduct the necessary upkeep of the island. Previously, under the tenure of former Secretary Hilton Sandy that once led the Division of Agriculture, Marine Affairs, Marketing and the Environment (2010), a boat called, “Yellow Iron” was purchased for the purpose of taking the workers to and from Little Tobago. The said boat was used for under three (3) years before being parked at Tyrell’s Bay in Lucyvale for many years. The boat Yellow Iron has since been removed and the workers are still without a boat to get to and from the island.

Currently,

the team of workers on the island depends on the kindness of

fishermen

in the area or the availability of boats owned by the Division’s

workers

to get to and from the island. Can the Secretary for Food

Production, Forestry and Fisheries tell this House:

(a)

When can the team of workers on Little Tobago expect to have access to a boat from the THA so that they can consistently conduct critical maintenance and environmental management work on the island of Little Tobago? and

(b)

The whereabouts of the boat - Yellow Iron?”

Oral Answers to Questions (Cont’d) HON. H. SPENCER (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Secretary of Food Production and Fisheries.

SECRETARY OF FOOD PRODUCTION AND FISHERIES (Hon. Hayden Spencer): Thank you very much, Madam Presiding Officer.

Part (a) of the question: A vessel will be made available as soon as the funding is made available to the Tobago House of Assembly.

Part (b) of the question: Yellow Iron is presently lodged at the compound of the Buccoo Fisheries Training Centre awaiting inspection by the Trinidad

and Tobago Board of Survey for write off. So at present, that is the situation.

Madam Presiding Officer, through you I will like to publicly thank the Officers of the Division, the fisherfolk and the Divers Association for their yeoman’s services in assisting the Members of the Forestry Department in taking them to the island and back. Citizens being concerned about the preservation and conservation of the wildlife across there.

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you. [Desk thumping]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The Question and Answer period is now closed.

Minority Leader, Assemblyman Watson Duke.

PRIVATE BUSINESS MOTION REQUEST TO SUPPORT TOBAGO TRANSPORTATION AGENCY MR. WATSON DUKE [Minority Leader]: Madam Presiding Officer, thank you for the opportunity to stand before this House and to stand on behalf of the people of Tobago and the Minority Council to lay a Motion of significance, a Motion that is timely and one that is relevant.

“WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly is a corporate body with direct responsibility for the formation of policy regarding the items in the 5th Schedule of the Tobago House of Assembly Act; AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly is therefore indirectly responsible for operations of the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, Caribbean Airlines Ltd and the Public Transport Service Corporation; AND WHEREAS Tobagonians have been experiencing hardship, anxiety, and frustration in exercising their fundamental constitutional right of freedom of movement via the public transportation system in Tobago, and the air-bridge and sea-bridge systems that exist between Trinidad and Tobago; AND WHEREAS the Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago has set precedence by demonstrating an understanding of the uniqueness of Tobago’s needs, and thereby approved the creation of a separate Tobago Tourism Agency (as opposed to the Tourism Development Company for both islands); AND WHEREAS the proposed Tobago Bill promises to give Tobago greater autonomy over the transportation sectors of the island, if the Parliament of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago should enact such constitutional change;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House write to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, as a matter of urgency, indicating the need for a Tobago Transportation Agency, with the responsibility for all transportation needs specific to Tobago, i.e. ground transportation, air transportation and sea transportation; AND

BE

IT

FURTHER

RESOLVED

that

the

Tobago

Transportation

Agency be implemented immediately, notwithstanding

the proposed

Tobago Bill as the Tobago transportation sector is in dire

straits.”

Madam Presiding Officer, I am indeed pleased today to move such a Motion. I am pleased to be flanked by two (2) of my Colleagues that hold a different view from the thirteen (13) Members of this House. Even though we are small in number, we understand by the traversing of the streets of Tobago and even Trinidad that something is not right.

Something cannot be right when “Yellow Iron” that should be transporting people from “the main island of Tobago to Little Tobago” is parked quite in Buccoo awaiting to be written off.

The Secretary is

comfortable about that.

Something is not right, when you board a plane 6.00 a.m. in the morning to come to Tobago, and you are told something is wrong with the

plane, you need to get off.

You wait for an hour, board another plane in

Trinidad, rushing to come to Tobago. After boarding that plane you are told again, something is wrong, you need to get to get off.

Something is wrong when we have a Joint Select Committee (JSC) in Tobago in the year April 2016, Madam Presiding Officer… I want you to advise this young man not to be distributing things when we are speaking please. He is interrupting my flow. [Laughter] He ought to respect that at least. Now is not the time to be moving around Madam Presiding Officer. I take my seat for you to advise him please. I will not proceed until you advise him Madam Presiding Officer. He cannot continue to be doing that.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Mr. Duke, I am asking you to please continue with the Motion, unless you are indicating that you want to close it out now.

MR. W. DUKE: Whenever we stand to speak, once there is unnecessary movements and interruption in this House, we will take our seat. I am thankful for the fact that, “The longest rope has an end, and time is longer than twine”.

The disrespect to Tobagonians will end one day. It will end

one day! That day as far as I am told by the people outside of this House, is not too far away.

So, as I continue. Something got to be wrong in the House when a Speaker stands to speak and he call upon the Presiding Officer, for protection, and is told to continue his presentation. I know something is wrong in the House.

Something is wrong in the House when you are not allowed to carry on your speech in a manner that is fitting for those who are presenting. After all, this House is about making deliberations. We cannot have the person who is speaking being interrupted? The Standing Orders is clear! So, as I press on today‌, and I am going to sit again if he is continuing. I will not be disturbed today Madam Presiding Officer. Again, I plead your protection.

You are in charge of this House Madam Presiding Officer.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Mr. Duke, I urge you to please

continue to move this Motion unless you intend to bring it prematurely to a close. Please indicate!

MR. W. DUKE: Thank you Madam Presiding Officer, again. I wish to state the position of the Minority Council. They ought to be order in this House. I continue.

So something is wrong in the House of Assembly, when Tobagonians outside are suffering for better transportation; air transport; buses; we are talking sea transport and we are busy inside here waiting for the lunch hour;

you are busy inside shining the rims on our new BMW; we are busy inside doing inside doing all sort of things except administering the business of Tobago people. Something is wrong.

In doing this Motion, I must say I was encouraged by what Central Government in Trinidad would have done, in that they recognize the uniqueness of Tobago and they would have closed a long established Institution called, “The Tourism Development Company” and opened two (2) Organizations that is, “The Trinidad Tourism Agency and the Tobago Tourism Agency”. To me, it was the signal of what Tobagonians have been craving for; it was the signal of more autonomy; more decision making power. The more we are able to create ideas based on the desire of our people, is the better we will serve our people of this beautiful island called, “Tobago”. So, I have looked with great interest at what happened.

Tourism was in crisis, in so far as tourism had not been generating the type of revenue that we expected. Tourist arrivals were low; occupancy were low; and in an attempt to resuscitate an Industry that was dying and to ensure that the Tourism Industry in Tobago takes on a unique shape that reflects Tobagonians particularity, it was important that the Prime Minister bring to the Cabinet, the idea of creating, “The Tobago Tourism Agency”.

So, today we are piloting this Motion to create another Agency called the “Tobago Transportation Agency.” It is something I believe that is more important than the Tourism Agency because transportation speaks to

movement and movement find its way into our Constitution. It is part of our fundamental rights of every single human being in Trinidad and in Tobago the Freedom of Movement.

Interestingly enough, the Constitution reminds us that before, even Tobago and Trinidad were Independent from Britain before we became a Republic, there exist the rights of all Tobagonians and Trinidadians the freedom of movement and those rights should not in any way be impeded except by due process of law.

Then we have it again written in our

Constitution something speaking to what is equal treatment – “Here every creed and race find an equal place and may God bless our nation.” Suffice to say, the people in Trinidad have access to all essential services without having the challenge of wondering whether the bus is working this morning.

Whether or not they could take the hot sun as exist by Market Square; whether or not they could take the rainfall that meets them on their feet when they stand in that little “cow shed” opposite Market Square awaiting a bus. They do not have that challenge.

In Trinidad there is a Bus Terminus, at San Fernando; at Port-ofSpain. In Tobago there used to be a Bus Terminus where the Library now is, there use to be a bus terminus right there. Under the People’s National Movement (PNM) that Bus Terminus was moved to Sangsters Hill and from Sangsters Hill it became extinct.

You can search Tobago from

Charlotteville to Crown Point, from Pigeon Point to Pigeon Peak and you will not find a Bus Terminus. There is none in this island and we are saying,

“Here every creed and race finds an equal place”, the freedom of movement is a constitutional right and yet there is no bus terminus where you can access in Tobago and get a bus to take you to any part. People have decided to wait by Market Square under a “cow shed” to access the bus service.

In 2016, when we had the Joint Select Committee coming to Tobago they discovered that PTSC (Public Transport Service Corporation) had fortyfive (45) buses, yet only fourteen (14) was working. At that same Joint Select Committee when they furnished their report to the Parliament of Trinidad it was said that within three (3) months time they should have started to fix those issues.

So I say to you there are still old buses in Tobago breaking

down and some places like Charlotteville have no bus system, some places like L’Anse Fourmi has no bus system, what they are using are maxi-taxis to operate the system and the maxi-taxis are operating at odd hours.

A reliable bus service ought to be one that moves on time and for a minimum we are saying every two (2) hours, every single two (2) hours a bus service ought to move after all it is Public Transport and if you want people to engage in what is called, “Domestic Consumption” - spending their money in Tobago, you have to provide a bus service that will transport them to places where they can spend their money and engage in that form of Domestic Consumption. Otherwise to that, they will say, “I going Trinidad next month when I go down I go buy everything and done.” But if there is a bus to take you down to Scarborough you will come down and you will buy your stuff

and then you will go back up then your stuff will come up - bus service in Tobago is an extinct business.

I long for the time when you will catch the:  6.00 o’clock bus;  8.00 o’clock bus;  10.00 o’clock bus;  12.00 o’clock bus;  2.00 o’clock bus;  4.00 o’clock bus;  6.00 o’clock bus;  8.00 o’clock bus; and the  10.00 o’clock bus.

Now the only buses that are operating maybe those bus on the straight – Crown Point side and those bus operate far, few and in between. That is why we need a Tobago Transportation Agency.

I gone again to speak about the bus for the disabled. A bus service for the disabled was planned and was implemented and what started out as three (3) buses for the disabled people in our community now come down to one bus. The bus I am told only operates between the hours of 7.00 a.m to 7.00 p.m during the week only and the only transport those that are disabled, who are going to school, the hospital and on official business.

So little Johnny who is in the wheelchair cannot go and take a beach bathe, he cannot go and just look at the Fort and relax himself, he cannot even just go in the Library and read with that bus it has to be specifically school or healthcare. What type of society is that, that discriminates against those who are disabled? What kind of society is that that tells them if you not operating between Monday and Friday, 7.00 a.m. to 7.00 p.m. then you have no business being outside? What type of society is that? This is why we are talking about a “Tobago Transportation Agency� that will correct all of those problems.

I turn to the plane – the Aircraft. We had our Chief Secretary going down to Trinidad to deal with an increase or a penalty attached to not booking and not maintaining your booking. He came back up with no change in that policy.

We have a situation where Tobagonians are frustrated every single Friday at Piarco Airport awaiting some type of Magician, awaiting the good faith of those who operate the airline to take them because it is difficult sometimes to purchase a ticket on time. Sometimes their journey is ad hoc and they are forced to operate ad hoc and they are told the Standby Line is closed, they are told that there are no available flights, come back in the morning and they are told it is a first come, first serve basis, we will start the Standby List all over again.

To beat that, what they do is to sleep in the

Airport under the cold; without blanket; without sponge; without the comfort of hot tea. They sleep in the airport I know, I have slept there couple times

well awaiting that 5.00 o’clock hour in Trinidad when you can put you name down first and so be able to get first preference on a Standby List. We are talking about a Tobago Transportation Agency that will correct that.

We learned also too that when they came to Tobago and they looked at the fleets of ATRs the small planes, there are five (5) assigned to Trinidad and Tobago route and some of those are in a derelict condition, some of those

require serious changing, serious adjustment, complete refurbishment and sometimes in a wee bit.

This was the case of many pilots a few months ago when they complained about a red light coming on in the cockpit. I remember that and as I began earlier I said just this week, when I boarded the plane on Tuesday morning this week, I had to come off the first plane, something was wrong then I got on the second plane, something was wrong again.

We had to

make it on the third plane.

We are talking about the Tobago Transportation Agency. So, the question is, why?

Why a Tobago Transportation Agency, or what is a Tobago

Transportation Agency?

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to make it clear for those who think that an Agency is a difficult thing to create, but it is not. An “Agency is simply “a Business or an Organization that provides a particular service on

behalf of another business person or organization”. So, for example in Tobago now, we have the Tobago Tourism Agency.

That Agency is

operating on behalf of the Ministry of Tourism, separate that that is the principal agent, the Ministry of Tourism, but it is carrying on a specific function on the Ministries’ behalf in Tobago. It required no legislative changes to the Constitution, what it requires is the goodwill of those in Central Government. If that goodwill that exist then, still exist today, I am saying to this Honourable House, that the conversation can take place between the Executive Council and the Executive of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, and we can see the formation of a Tobago Transportation Agency. That Agency would be able to assist Tobagonians greatly, because it is a new dimension of Tobago providing within its own space the capability to manage how it exercises the freedom of movement.

Very, very much so. You see, it is difficult to exercise your freedom of movement knowing that there are fifteen (15) new buses parked in Trinidad, currently awaiting for someone to finish drinking their coffee and signing the paper and saying, “Alright bring them over now”.

That is what

happening right now. Fifteen (15) new buses are parked in Trinidad. Some Minister has to finish drink his coffee, straightened his suit, button it and say, “Alright, let me see if we can send those buses across to Tobago now”.

If we have the Tobago Transportation Agency, then when those buses are purchased, they will come directly here and not to Trinidad. This is what we need. The Tobago Transportation Agency provides:  Administration;  Regulation; and

 The Operation of all air transportation, all sea transportation and all ground transportation.

It provides regulation and administration over public transport and over private transport. As it is right now, someone who wants to get a Taxi Badge to drive a Taxi or a Maxi, they have to send this to Trinidad, and await someone down there to find time look at it and say, “Okay, I will give them a chance”. Someone who is totally unaware of the challenges in Tobago with transportation is making a decision in Trinidad. The Tobago Transportation Agency will eradicate that. It is provided for by the Tobago House of Assembly Act. We will get to that a little later on. Suffice to say that if we were to create the Tobago Transportation Agency, then no Taxi driver, no Maxi driver will have to write to Trinidad asking for permission to have Maxi rights or to have a Taxi badge. No, it can be done right here!

If we had that Tobago Transportation Agency, we do not have to wait for some Organization in Trinidad to write off, “Yellow Iron” - the boat. No! It can be written off right here in Tobago by that Agency.

Under that Agency, Licensing Office would operate, but it will be no longer Licensing Office, it will be Tobago Transportation Agency. So the licensing of cars and all vehicles will take place under that Agency. The licensing of boats, the licensing of all crafts; motorbikes whatever, would be registered and accounted for under the Agency.

The Agency would be designed with integrating a network of roads and vehicles etcetera to ensure that a person in L’Anse Fourmi could go to Charlotteville and he could calculate exactly when he will get to Charlotteville at what time using Public Transport. Around the World, it is like that. Buses operate on time; planes operate on time, and we also have boats operating on time. We need to regulate the persons who operate Jet Skis in our country, the Tobago Transportation Agency will take care of that.

Sometimes a tourist wants to ride on a Jet Ski, but the tourist must ask his or herself whether or not this Jet Ski is licensed; whether it has insurance. So, we want to make all forms of transportation in Tobago accountable to the regulatory body called, “The Tobago Transportation Agency”. I now come to the legal aspects of it.

This has more to do with an understanding between the Tobago House of Assembly and the Central Government, whereby in accordance with Section 25 of the Tobago House of Assembly Act, Section 25 Sub Section 3, in accordance with that Act, Tobagonians have the right to create linkages or to partner I would say, with established Organizations or Ministries in Trinidad so as to provide a tailor made service in Tobago.

However, we have a Chief Secretary who is clearly not desirous of that. In that, when he was asked to come to the Joint Select Committee (JSC) on the boat, he decided not to come.

He said that, “He is not

responsible, that is a Trinidad business”. With this Transportation Agency, not only will Licensing Department falls under it, and to be integrated into

it, also the Port Authority; Caribbean Airlines; and the rule is here. Under Section 25 of the Act, Sub Section 3 it states that:

“Where a Statutory Authority or a State Enterprise provides services in Tobago, wherever they provide the services in Tobago…,

So where the Port Authority provides services in Tobago, where the Caribbean Airlines provides services in Tobago; where the PTSC provides services in Tobago, it is said here: …that authority or enterprise in exercise of its duty, in relation to those services in Tobago, act in accordance with the Policies or Programmes of the Assembly.

Therefore, what are the Programmes of the Assembly? What are the policies of the Assembly regarding air transport; ground transport or sea transport?

Apparently, there is none.

There is no policy whatsoever!

None

whatsoever! But the Enterprises in Trinidad ought to act in concert, act in pursuance of those policies by the Assembly and it says and to this end, the Act continue to say

…enter into a Memorandum of Understanding with the Assembly”.

Very simple! It is in the law. It is in the Tobago House of Assembly Act. This is the reason why the Tobago House of Assembly was created. But apparently we have Leaders who are not negotiators; we have Leaders who

are not dreamers, so they have no plan for Tobago in so far as transportation is concern. There is no plan for a good bus service; one bus linking with a next bus; there is no plan for a good boat service, it is not their business, they are not responsible for it, they are sending legal letters, saying that, “I am not coming to meeting. I am not answering that”. They have no plan to treat with the airfare business. So, when they go to Caribbean Airlines and ask them why is that penalty of fifty dollars ($50) imposed? They are given no answer, and they come back up smiling.

But if the Tobago House of

Assembly, was to create Policies that are unique to Tobago, if the Tobago House of Assembly had Programmes that are unique to the people of Tobago, then the law is clear. The law simply states that:

“Any Enterprise in Trinidad, any Ministry in Trinidad must work and ensure that they observe those policies”.

After all, the Tobago House of Assembly and the Central Government, they are one. They are all parts of governance.

Tobago House of Assembly was created specifically to look after the unique needs of Tobagonians. We are not supposed to be throwing our hands in the air and saying that it is a Trinidad matter. That is why we are saying we need to have a Tobago Transportation Agency.

Having done that and having said that, it means therefore, that the Chief Secretary, our Chief Secretary, Kelvin Charles, he ought to be a man of vision, he ought to be able to say to his Executive team, instead of going

on wild retreats that amount to nothing, let us sit down and discuss what are the transportational needs of Tobagonians? How could we get more people coming into Scarborough?

How could we get more people going to

Roxborough/Charlotteville? How could we move those disabled people to enjoy and engage in some type of leisure activities? How could we do that?

Yes, we are going to use the Public Transportation Service.

How do we cut down on frustrating our taxis and maxis driver? How could we cut down and having no boat?

How could we encourage our

locals to be involved in business of having a boat or even an airline?

I

heard someone said Tobago Airlines coming. But what is the policy of the Assembly on that? We once had an Airline you know some years ago, called the “Tobago Express� that the Assembly was involved in apparently, it died a sudden death.

Madam Presiding Officer, this Tobago Transportation Agency is an Agency that will create regulations and my colleagues will speak more on that in a while again.

It is an Agency that will create revenue.

If I were Chief Secretary (and I will be very shortly right?) what will happen? Let me tell you what will happen Madam Presiding Officer. I will go to Trinidad and I will sit with the Ministry of Works and Transport under whose charge falls under the Port Authority; under whose charge fall the Licensing Authority; under whose charge fall Civilization and Caribbean Airlines; under whose charge fall also to all of the other areas that comes up under transport. I will enter into a discussion with the Minister and I would

say to him, “Let us manage the airspace. Those four (4) ATRs that are operating in Trinidad we want to have them lodged and resting in Tobago.”

As it stands right now, no plane sleeps in Tobago - none. No Plane sleeps here – none. We are troubled by that.

In cases of an emergency and you have to rush 40/50 people out of the island for medical care what you have to wait on, the helicopters to come from Trinidad? You have to wait on that?

No!

We need to have some

airlines resting here, we need to have hangers. By doing that you are causing Tobagonians to dream. The young men will begin to study Pilot they will study Aircraft Engineering because they know they can work right here in Tobago but when they set their eyes far off to Trinidad, sometimes they are crying, sometimes the uncertainty, the distant relocation from family makes them say, “No, I will not go to Trinidad - I will not pursue that field.”

Hence we have a number of persons in Tobago trapped.

If we had gone to the Port Authority as Chief Secretary I would go to the Port Authority and I would say to them, “Look, we want the authority to manage these two (2) vessels whether it be the Spirit or the Express or the Cabo Star because you want to develop in Tobago the capacity to fix these things.

One of the best Captains in Trinidad is a Tobagonian and I salute him he is Brebnor he is a Captain right and these people while they are Tobagonians the pride of working in Tobago and for Tobago is lost. They are working in between Trinidad and Tobago but they reside in Trinidad.

Madam Presiding Officer, we are laying the foundation here today.

By no means this Motion is a Bill, this Motion is an idea that says, we need to bring air transportation, ground transportation, sea transportation under one House. We need to do so now and we cannot wait on the Constitutional Amendment Bill that will give authority to Tobago because as far as they are aware that Bill may never come into existence. However, if it does come, when it comes it must meet Tobago almost ready to take off in the other areas because the area of Transportation we would have been ready.

As soon as I put the Bill on the table now, I ask my colleagues on the other side to open your minds, and understand self-determination, autonomy does not begin by saying, I will wait until they give me something, we must begin to push the envelope. We must begin to make the clarion call that the time for inclusiveness is now. The time for Tobago autonomy is now, the time for self-determination is now and we must use the framework provide for in the House of Assembly Act to ensure that that takes place which is form by a Memorandum of Understanding with the relevant enterprise or the Central Government in the furtherance of time.

Madam Presiding Officer, I thank you and I submit and I ask my colleagues to support this Bill.

Question proposed.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Assemblyman Ancil Dennis. [Desk thumping]

ASSISTANT SECRETARY IN THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF SECRETARY AND SECRETARY OF EDUCATION, INNOVATION AND ENERGY (Mr. Ancil Dennis):

Thank you very much, Madam

Presiding Officer. Of course, it is always a pleasure and a privilege to stand on my feet here in my capacity as Assemblyman for the great electoral district of Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant.

Of course, let me take this opportunity to recognize our Seniors present here at this debate, looking all wonderful and of course, our young students from Scarborough Secondary and of course, students from Light and Life Foundation High School as well and of course, other Members gathered in the Public Gallery.

I want to say to the Seniors especially, while you may have been disappointed at what has transpired before at this debate, I will ensure that I will not let you down and that you will have all the confidence that the values that you would have instilled in young Tobagonians over the years still reside in some of us young people. [Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, I understand who is in charge of this House, and I respect you in your capacity as Presiding Officer of this House, and therefore I will never question any of your rulings made in this House.

But I listened to the presentation of the Minority Leader, because this is his Motion, he brought this Motion in this House, and all I heard was lies, untruths; and misinformation. I am yet to hear the justification for this Tobago Transportation Agency, I am yet to hear about the structure of this

Agency; I am yet to hear about the plans of this Agency; and exactly how this Agency will fix the issues on the sea-bridge; the issues experienced with the air-bridge; and of course our Public Transportation System here in terms of PTSC (Public Transport Service Corporation) here in Tobago. I am yet to hear that. But interestingly, I heard lies and untruths.

I heard the Minority Leader say to us in this House Madam Presiding Officer, that it was the Central Government who approved the Establishment of a Tobago Tourism Agency. But I want to remind him and at the same time correct the record that this Tobago Tourism Agency, established under this Administration, was the vision of Honourable Kelvin Charles Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] I want to remind him that that was also a part of a PNM (People’s National Movement) Manifesto when we were campaigning during the last Tobago House of Assembly Election. So, it did not require any Central Government approval; it did not require any Central Government support; maybe there was some discussions. I am saying to you that this was clearly the vision of the visionary Honourable Kelvin Charles. But you see sometimes they want to talk about change, and they believe change has to do with airports in Roxborough and all these other impossible and non-feasible ideas.

So when you want to talk about change and vision, look at URP (Unemployment Relief Programme). We had a clear example of what has transpired in URP when the Secretary of the Division of Infrastructure and the Environment responded to the question posed by the Minority Leader.

We have seen the transformation taking place in the URP over the last few months.

Madam Presiding Officer, look at what is happening with the Quarry, we have seen an unproductive and unprofitable Quarry get to the place where we are now declaring profits in excess of millions of dollars.

Therefore, this demonstrates that this Administration under the leadership of Honourable Kelvin Charles is willing to tackle any issue faced by Tobagonians and we are willing to change the status quo even as our mantra continues to be, “Business as unusual�. [Desk thumping] Therefore, we are not averse to making difficult decision, and we have clearly demonstrated that we have the requisite political will Madam Presiding Officer. So as I continue to listen to the Minority Leader as difficult as it was, I asked questions; I heard statements about derelict planes. I am wondering where the Minority Leader saw derelict planes in Trinidad. I am wondering if he is talking about the old airport where they have those old Caribbean Airline planes parked up under hangers, but nothing about the Agency in terms of its plans; nothing about a clear structure; nothing about a model in terms of where this worked before, and how we intend to make it work here Madam Presiding Officer. Only misinformation and talked about having planes parked in Tobago. I want to suggest that you buy your own plane and park it in Tobago. But when you look at the airport Madam Presiding Officer, no hangers. Where will these planes be housed?

As a matter of fact, we are now struggling to find the funding to deal with the much needed new terminal for the A.N.R. Robinson International Airport – “misinformation and lies”. But I would not spend much time on that Madam Presiding Officer, because unlike the Minority Leader, I did my homework, I did my research, because I understand the importance of this issue of transportation here, not just in Tobago but Trinidad and Tobago.

So, I want to specifically look at the sea-bridge Madam Presiding Officer. I want to go back into history, and I am sure some of the seniors present will join me as we reflect on the journey and the history of the seabridge over the years here in Trinidad and Tobago.

So, I want to tease the “Lady in Red” a little bit, and ask her if she remember the “Gelting” and the “Teisten”. Of course, I want to ask her if she remember in the 1960s when we moved from steamships, 1960s I probably even was a thought, with the introduction of “Roll on Roll type Vessels” where had the “Scarlet Ibis” and the “Bird of Paradise”. You all remember right?

Then by 1982 Madam Presiding Officer, was when the Government placed an order for the “MF Panorama”, of course it arrived some six (6) years later.

Then in 1987 which is the year that I was born, when the “MF Panorama” was finally introduced and it was another notable benchmark in the development of the service, “The Inter-island Ferry Service of Trinidad and Tobago”. Of course, this was termed as a highly sophisticated “Roll on Roll off vessel” with a passenger capacity of seven hundred (700) persons; plus twenty-five (25) cabins, and it also had the capacity for one thousand and twenty-five (1,025) tons of cargo Madam Presiding Officer.

Then as young as I was in 1994, I remembered looking at the News, when the “Condo 9” made its first journey from Trinidad to Tobago and this signalled the first taste of fast ferry operations here in Trinidad and Tobago.

I want to remind us as well, that this introduction and all this happen under the Leadership of the then Prime Minister, Patrick Manning, under a PNM Government Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] So we moved from slow vessels to fast Ferries. I remembered looking at the News I mean I can vaguely remember, but if I remember clearly, I think ambulances had to come to the Port because the ride was so fast, persons were shaken. I remember looking at the News am I correct?

Then of course, we even expanded on the Fast Ferry Service because in January 2005, and May 2005 respectively, we had the introduction of the “Cat and the Links”. You all remember those two (2) fast ferries? Again, under the leadership of a PNM Government in Trinidad [Desk thumping] and a PNM Government in Tobago Madam Presiding Officer. The service was revolutionized. Then of course vessels came, vessels went.

On December 11, 2004, we had the, “MV Sonia”, or “Sonia”, however you want to pronounce it, and this vessel graced our shores in majestic style Madam Presiding Officer, bringing with her all of the state of the art conveniences of a modern cruise vessel. Again, under a People’s National Movement Government in Trinidad and a PNM THA in Tobago Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] But the then Prime Minister, Patrick Manning - the late Prime Minister, Patrick Manning (and May God Bless His Soul!) being the visionary that he was, went even further in 2006 when the Government disclosed its plans to purchase two (2) fast ferries at a cost of some four hundred and sixteen million dollars ($416m.) – “the Cat and the Links.”

The Links nine (9) years old at the point in time, was purchased at a cost of one hundred and twenty-six million dollars ($126m.) while the four (4) year old Cat was purchased for two hundred and ninety million TT dollars ($290m.), Madam Presiding Officer. All this development of our Fast Ferry Service and our Inter-island Transportation Service took place under the leadership of the People’s National Movement (PNM).

Having said that, I want to expose a particular piece of misinformation and mischief which suggest that this Administration, this present PNMAdministration is deliberately frustrating Tobagonians by ensuring that the seabridge does not function effectively. I want to suggest and debunk that notion, I want to suggest that it is a foolish notion, I want to suggest that any right-thinking Tobagonian will understand that no Tobago Prime Minister or

no Tobago Chief Secretary will deliberately preside over this situation we experienced on the seabridge.

So when I heard Members of the Minority going into the Media and going into the Highways and Bye-ways and suggesting that is Honourable Keith Rowley fault and Honourable Kelvin Charles fault because Honourable Keith Rowley and Honourable Kelvin Charles do not like Tobago, I want to say to all of Tobago that that is abject nonsense, Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] And I am coming to the “why,” in terms of why we are in this position. But before I go there you know, I believe in the Bible and I do not always question the Bible, Madam Presiding Officer.

But there is a particular piece of scripture that I often question which says, “Foolishness [Laughter] [Desk thumping] bounded up in the heart of a child but the rod of correction will drive it out.”

Madam Presiding Officer, the question I have in my mind is when I am convinced that foolishness is also bounded up in the heart and minds of some adults and I am not sure, Madam Presiding Officer, what will drive it out. [Laughter] Madam Presiding Officer, let us look at fast ferry because I am getting to the “why” the term of why we are here. One fast ferry and you could pick one the T&T Spirit or the T&T Express, carries eight hundred and sixty-two (862) passengers and one hundred and sixty-five cars (165). A two-way passenger ticket is one hundred TT dollars ($100.00). So on a given day, if that particular Ferry was to make the journey back and forth full which seldom happens that will be eighty-six thousand, two hundred TT dollars ($86,200.00) in revenue. If it was to carry cars in its full capacity (again

which it seldom does) that will be forty-one thousand, two hundred and fifty dollars ($41,250.00) in revenue for that particular day.

If each passenger on that full Ferry was to spend twenty-five dollars ($25.00) on eats and drinks on each leg of the journey that will be an average of some forty-three thousand, two hundred and fifty dollars ($43,250.00) Madam Presiding Officer.

Therefore, the total revenue generated by that

boat for that particular day would be one hundred and seventy thousand, seven hundred dollars, ($170,700.00) Madam Presiding Officer, that is one vessel on that day if it is in fact full on both legs of the journey.

Madam Presiding Officer, let’s look at fuel – expenditure. My information and my research has informed me that one fast ferry requires thirty-two thousand (32,000) litres of fuel per day at a cost of three dollars and forty-one cents ($3.41) TT dollars (and I did not include VAT) per litre which gives us one hundred and nine thousand, one hundred and twenty TT ($109,120.00), Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, salaries, conservative estimate of ten thousand dollars ($10,000.00) per day.

Maintenance a conservative

estimate, of two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000.00) per day. Operating expenditure, cost of operating the vessel for one particular day in terms of supplies, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, drinks, food etcetera - two hundred thousand TT dollars ($200,000.00) per day.

My information or my research gives me a total of five hundred and twenty thousand TT dollars ($520,00.00) per day for one (1) vessel expenditure.

Therefore, the conclusion here is that on any one (1) day or any one (1) sailing one (1) fast ferry incurs a loss of some three hundred and fifty thousand TT dollars ($350,000.00) or more which works out to ten point five million dollars ($10.5m.) per month or One hundred and twenty-six million dollars ($126m.) TT per year – one (1) ferry in losses.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I researched further, I discovered an article called, and the title was “Concerns over Ferry Contracts.” I want to quote some of the contents. The article of course, was dated Tuesday 5 th September 2017 and by this time is when we started experiencing some of the challenges with the seabridge. “… JSC (Joint Select Committee) expressed concern over the circumstances surrounding cancellation of a US (United States) seven million dollars ($7m.) contract to Canadian Company – Bay Ferries and the award of a US three hundred and forty-seven thousand dollars (US$347,000.00) contract to local Firm, Magellan Maritime Services for maintenance of the T&T Spirit …

Energy Minister, Franklyn Khan described it as “Jumping from the frying pan into the fire.” Khan was concerned

that

despite

challenges with Bay Ferries, Magellan provided primarily managerial and not maintenance services for the ferries …”

But keep your focus on the figure of seven million US dollars (US$7m.) per year.

Madam Presiding Officer, I searched all over the Caribbean. I looked at Anguilla, that route from Anguilla to St. Martin, I looked at Guadeloupe, I looked at the ferry services provided to the islands in the Bahamas and I could not find any ferry service in the Caribbean that could be compared to our own unique circumstances and our own unique requirements. In all of those examples, the journey is a lot shorter, the maximum journey I think is one (1) hour that is between I cannot remember which island exactly in the Bahamas, some journeys were as short as thirty (30) minutes, the size of the vessels is significantly smaller than what we have.

Therefore, my conclusion is that our seabridge, our Inter-island Ferry Service here in Trinidad and Tobago is indeed unique and cannot be necessarily compared with other jurisdictions in the Caribbean.

So

therefore, it is sensible to conclude, Madam Presiding Officer, that any Interisland Ferry Service operated in this country at this point in time, will have to be heavily subsidized.

So the question is, how can the Government continue to afford those subsidies and how can we achieve the objective of effective and efficient Customer Service, a reliable seabridge and at the same time value for money?

So unlike the Minority Leader, I want us to explore some possible options Madam Presiding Officer. I want to suggest that contrary to the talk about Honourable Kelvin Charles and Honourable Keith Rowley, being wicked and irresponsible, let us be pragmatic. If the Port hires Engineers and other operatives to undertake certain responsibilities, explain to me (or I dare anybody) how can Honourable Keith Rowley, the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago sit in his Office and manage what happens in the Port in Port-ofSpain, or the Port in Scarborough? I want somebody to explain that to me.

Recently, again we had a situation where the boat was due for dry docking, a process that was supposed to take I think it was about six (6) weeks originally took us almost one year. I want you to explain to me how Chief Secretary Kelvin Charles should be responsible for that, or how the Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago should be responsible for that? But of course, alternate responsibility as we would like to say, lie with the Leaders those whom we elect.

So we have a situation where the Port manages Ferries. Of course, they will engage the services of suppliers who will maintain in some instances and who will provide other services. Some persons suggest having spoken to a number of individuals that under the management of Bay Ferries which is the Company that we just got rid of because we could no longer afford the expense Madam Presiding Officer. It was some of the best times we had in terms of management of the Ferries.

So, therefore I am

suggesting, that in order for us to realize this vision and this aspiration of an

effectively managed Inter-island Ferry Service, that there is a need for greater private sector involvement Madam Presiding Officer.

I want to suggest as well, that there is no need for any Tobago Transportation Agency, especially the model being suggested by the Minority.

One that will manage PTSC (Public Transport Service

Corporation) buses; one that would manage the air-bridge and one that will also manage the sea-bridge.

I want to suggest that such a model being

implemented in Trinidad and Tobago is impossible and nonsensical Madam Presiding Officer. I tell you why.

As I said before, the sea-bridge has already been heavily subsidized.

The question I want to ask the Minority because they did not tell us any details about how this will be set up, and how it will be managed. I want to ask the Minority where would the money come from for a Tobago Agency to manage ferries; manage buses; and at the same time manage planes Madam Presiding Officer.

I want to also remind the Minority Leader that the air-bridge between Trinidad and Tobago operating in its present context of three hundred dollars ($300.00) for a return airfare, could never be profitable. Therefore, the only thing that saves Caribbean Airlines, or the only thing that bring Caribbean Airlines any hope of profitability is the other routes whether it be:  the Caribbean;  Barbados;  Grenada;

 St. Lucia;  Canada;  Miami

etcetera Madam Presiding Officer.

So there is no hope of an air-bridge in Tobago, between Trinidad and Tobago being profitable with an airfare of three hundred dollars ($300.00) per passenger. I want the Minority Leader to tell us, and maybe the other two (2) Speakers will, where the money would come from to manage buses; vessels or Ferries and airplanes here in Tobago by a Tobago Transportation Agency?

So let us talk about, “Privatization”.

When we hear the word,

“Privatization”, we does get fraid, especially when we belong to Unions.

But I want to suggest that there are different levels of privatization. You have, (and I am looking specifically at the Ferry System in terms of what could work) the possibility of “Franchising” Madam Presiding Officer. I want to suggest in my opinion, that this is the best option to manage the seabridge or to manage the vessels operating the sea-bridge at this point in time.

Yes, we are in agreement that there is need for change. As signalled by our actions before, whether it be URP (Unemployment Relief Programme); CEPEP (Community-based Environmental Protection and Enhancement Programme); the Quarry; we are prepared to make decisions and undertake

changes where necessary. So let us look at, “Franchising� Madam Presiding Officer.

This is where the public sector contracts out operation of Public

Transport Service for a said period. I am going to tell you how this will be different or should be different from the Bay Ferries approach. The Bay Ferries approach was one where Bay Ferries simply maintained the vessel, but a Franchising Model suggest that whoever the private entity is, would be responsible not just for management, but operating the service Madam Presiding Officer.

So in this scenario, the public sector would retain

ownership of the public assets, ownership of all the vessels; and of course the Port Authority will continue to manage the Ports.

I want to suggest as well that representing the State in terms of owning these vessels and owning these assets that there should be a Holding Company managed by the Tobago House of Assembly whose Board, whose Management Committee should be appointed by the Tobago House of Assembly Madam Presiding Officer. Under this model there will be a high level of Government oversight and management performance through contracts.

I know that the Minority Leader would want to ask the question, so what about the staff members? Will anybody be sent home?

I am saying

that that does not have to happen. There is the possibility of a smooth transition of workers from the present arrangement being transferred to whatever private arrangement that could be considered. The question could be asked, what are some of the benefits of this arrangement Madam

Presiding Officer?

Firstly to the Government and to us as taxpayers, this

could possible reduce the level of subsidies enabling reinvestment in other areas or other services, public services here in Trinidad and Tobago.

In terms of our customers, the users of the service, this arrangement could improve the customer experience through private sector innovation and investment. ‌ [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Member your speaking time has

ended.

EXTENSION OF SPEAKING TIME Motion made: That the speaking time for the Member be extended by a further ten (10) minutes. [Hon. J. Jack]

Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, your speaking time has been extended by a further ten (10) minutes.

MR. A. DENNIS: Thank you very much Madam Presiding Officer.

So I am saying all over the world, even in Institutions where the public sector is considered to be efficient you always have issues of bureaucracy and inefficiencies within the public arrangement. I am saying

part of dealing with those issues has to do with the involvement of the Private Sector which can in fact, bring much needed benefits to these services and to it’s customers and users, Madam Presiding Officer. So I will use my final ten (10) minutes to just discuss some requirements for successful implementation if we in fact decide to go in this direction.

1. There must be competition.

2. You must also get the contractual arrangements right.

I want to suggest that may be, because one of the issues we had with Bay Ferries had to do with the cost and of course, based on my research the cost was indeed significant and we had gotten to the point where based on our economic circumstances we could no longer afford it. But I am saying there may be, there could have been some option to renegotiate if possible and this of course has to do with the initial contractual arrangements. For you must ensure that the negotiating in setting up whatever models in getting into any agreements with any private entity we must get the contractual arrangement right.

You must also have the right people and the right skills or the people with the right skills to manage the relationship and to manage the process, Madam Presiding Officer. Of course, whatever arrangement we do decide upon must be flexible and it must be adaptive to change. In other words, we could start off with a particular level of subsidy and as things progress the Private Entity may come to the table and say, “Look, the usage of the service is not at the levels that we would have expected and therefore, we are asking

for some more subsidies.� Or the Government may decide, that “Look, we find that you are making too much profits and therefore, we want to pull back a little bit on the level of subsidies but at the same time, we are asking you to maintain the level in terms of the fee structure and at the same time, you must continue to invest the same amount that you have been investing in maintenance.�

We must also ensure that there are appropriate and sufficient regulations so that we do not have a situation where a monopoly will be developed.

Madam Presiding Officer, in closing, I want to say again, that there is no need for us to establish a Tobago Transportation Agency.

I am saying

that there is a need for us to re-evaluate the seabridge, there is need for us to do our research and there is need for us to look at the possible options that will afford us the necessary improvement, the necessary reliability and great Customer Service that is deserving of all Tobagonians and even users from Trinidad and abroad.

So, with that said, I look forward to the other

contributions from the Majority and of course, they will delve further into the issue surrounding the airbridge and PTSC (Public Service Corporation).

Madam Presiding Officer, with that said, I am only prepared to support an amended version of this Motion. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Councillor, Dr. Faith B.Yisrael.

COUNCILLOR DR. FAITH B.YISRAEL:

Madam Presiding Officer,

good afternoon, to the Members of the House and Special Good afternoon to those visiting with us. It is really a pleasure seeing the students and those individuals who were a part of the Senior Debate with us here today.

Today, the Minority Council has the privilege of tabling our third Motion since the 2017 THA elections.

I am happy to state that what this

Motion does is highlight some of the aspects that were included in the mandate that we created, based on discussions with people as we moved around campaigning just before election.

However, the situation with the

Inter-island Transportation and the woes that we have experienced within the last year and a half or so has basically solidified the need for us to ask for what we are asking for and that is simply put – “A Comprehensive Transportation System that works.” I would like to repeat that. We are asking for – “A Comprehensive Transportation System that works.” It is obvious that what we have been doing before has not been working, this is why we are here. It is obvious that the parts that we have taken before have not worked to our benefit.

Request to Support Tobago Transportation Agency (Cont’d) COUNCILLOR DR. F. B.YISRAEL (Cont’d) Madam Presiding Officer, as the Minority Leader indicated the 5 th Schedule of the Tobago House of Assembly Act is very clear on its responsibilities.

Let us look at the Act and I would identify specifically the aspects that relate to what we are talking about – just to be clear.

Item 15 - Town and Country Planning; and We will talk about that a little bit.

Item 16 – Infrastructure, including air and sea transportation, wharves Airports and Public Utilities.

Item 18 – Highway and Roads; Item 21 – Customs and Excise to some degree; and Item 22 – Licensing.

These are all part of the 5th Schedule of the Tobago House of Assembly and, as the Tobago House of Assembly moves towards greater autonomy, we need to demonstrate our willingness to do the hard work and to do what is necessary to ensure that we take our responsibility seriously and therefore develop the system that works for us here in Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, I would like to spend a little bit of time talking about three (3) specific aspects of this Tobago Transportation Agency.

I will speak on the proposed regulatory and administrative

functions, the initial funding that would be necessary (and let me say, initial funding and investment because we have to think about it like that) and some of the aviation possibilities that it will bring for Tobago as an example.

Madam Presiding Officer, as indicated by the Minority Leader, the Tobago Transportation Agency as we visualize it, will be responsible for comprehensively ensuring that all aspects of transportation, whether it is ground transportation, Air or Sea transportation is integrated in a way that is

comprehensive, that is seamless, that is effective and is efficient.

By the

way, on an island that is just about 116 square miles with only about sixty thousand (60,000) of us here that is not that difficult. As a matter of fact, greater constituencies, far larger constituencies have done exactly that and what we are trying to do is to ensure what we have here works for us. So let us start with the proposed administrative and regulatory framework.

The Tobago Transportation Agency will be the arm of the Tobago House of Assembly that basically formulates policies for all aspects of transportation. In some instances, it may directly manage some of those transportation needs but in others it will provide policy and guidelines so that the agencies or the private sector, or the State, the Government sector or whoever it is that is actually operating the service, they will know what is the policy of the Tobago House of Assembly and they can follow those guidelines.

It is as simple as that. In some instances, for example, we may determine how many buses we actually need in Tobago for it to work effectively. That Agency can determine the routes that those buses can take; the scheduling of those buses, the agency can also develop plans that would allow for private cars or maxis and so forth to function including the regulation of those, including the licensing of those entities.

It would also include a

Transportation Hub for example, where the public can have a central space to travel to and to travel from to accommodate that in an organized fashion which is not what we are seeing right now. If you ask anyone where do you go to get a maxi to go here? Where do you go to get a car to go somewhere

else?

The answer is different. It is not a standardized, well developed

process. The policy as the Minority Leader says, would include all forms of transportation. So looking at all four, including:  Bicycle;  Jet Skis;

We need to regulate; we need to manage those things:  Hoover crafts; if we get to that point  Donkey carts; if we need to. All of those would be a part of the policy so we would give guidelines as to how those are used.

It may include for example:

developing bike parts, so that we know that bicycles can ride in these areas, and the bikers does not have to be afraid of getting bounced down, or walking paths, or bus lanes so that we know exactly what is travelling where and that is well documented, it is well highlighted, and it is well regulated.

These are the kinds of policies that we are talking about.

It is important to understand Madam Presiding Officer, that the Tobago Transportation Agency would also be the single Agency we are proposing and this is just one option that basically (and I want us to pay special attention to this) takes on the function in Tobago, of the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, as it relates to the seaports and the Airports Authority of Trinidad and Tobago as it relates to the airports. So

this will be an Agency, a single Agency because we are relatively small, because the land space is small; because we want to ensure complete integration and seamless transition, that that entity in essence operates the way the Port Authority operates and the way the Airport Authority operates, but for the island of Tobago.

To solidify that point Madam Presiding

Officer, please just allow me to highlight currently, and I would use the Port Authority as the example. According to the Port Authority Act here are some of the things that the Port Authority currently is responsible for:  the development of harbours in Trinidad and Tobago;  to operate port services;  to operate the Government’s Shipping Services;  to collect dues and charges and taxes and so forth.

Section 8 (2) of the Port Authority Act goes further by kind of defining about when they say development and operating what that means. I will highlight. It includes:

 Provision and maintenance of facilities and equipment;  The erecting and maintenance of jetties peers and so forth;  The provision of docking facilities;  The provision of lights;  Toing Services;  Dredging Services;  Repair services to vessels docked in the harbor and so forth.

Madam Presiding Officer, what we are proposing, is that in Tobago, instead of having the Airport Authority do the equivalent of that in the Airport and the Port Authority doing the equivalent of that at the seaports we are proposing, and this is one example, just a suggestion that the Tobago Transportation Agency be responsible for those functions. [Desk thumping] Please note Madam Presiding Officer, again I want to be very, very clear with this. We are not necessarily proposing that the Transportation Agency takes over the function of the Trinidad and Tobago Inter-island Ferry Service which is the entity that operates the Ferry Service, nor are we suggesting that it takes over the function of Caribbean Airlines? Those are‌ [Interruption] [Laughter] [Crosstalk] (no, no, no, no) the functions of specific carriers that run the route between Trinidad and Tobago. We would suggest however, that because these are partially state-run entities that we have more equal representation on their Boards, so maybe a fifty/fifty (50/50) representation on the Board of Port Authority and Caribbean Airlines or any of the other agencies that are Government assisted, but operate the routes.

Madam Presiding Officer, on that note I would also suggest and one of the things that have come up over and over when we have had discussions about this particular Motion recently, we have come up in the past is the fact that there may be other private organizations who would want to ply the route. So, the Tobago Transportation Agency we are suggesting would also be responsible because this is our land basically for giving that kind of authority for private people, somebody who wants to run two or more small planes or whatever, we could give them that authority to do that service and land in our ports.

Madam Presiding Officer, this also means that the Tobago Transportation Agency would also have the authority to designate (because we understand the development that is happening here) which of our airports and which of our seaports are International Airports or CARICOM (Caribbean Community) Seaports. Please note that I have been saying, Ports� with an “s� because the vision that we have for Tobago allows us to have way more than just the one airport or just the one seaport because of the volume of traffic that can come through this island having more than one may be necessary. Let me just stick one quick thing that is related but kind of not related.

It is this idea of ensuring that at least one of our seaports in Tobago is designated as a CARICOM Port. This is a must. We have a situation here where the businessmen and women in Tobago who maybe importing goods whatever those goods may be, because our Port here in Tobago is not classified as a Caribbean it is not an authorized CARICOM Seaport, it means that all of their goods must first go to Trinidad and then our businessmen here in Tobago must then find their way to Trinidad and figure out how to get the goods back to Tobago. We see where that is costing us in time and money and in the end that allows the cost of goods in Tobago to be significantly higher than the cost of similar goods in Trinidad. Therefore, ensuring that at least one of our Seaports in Tobago is classified as a CARICOM Port must be one of our major priorities because it is going to help our business community significantly in the future.

Madam Presiding Officer, how do we envision giving the Tobago Transportation Agency all of his power? Well, as you said as we are moving towards greater autonomy that is the relatively easy step.

I am really, really happy that the Member for Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant made it very clear that Central Government did not have to do anything for the Tobago Tourism Agency to come in place.

Which means that, in

essence, the Central Government does not really have to do anything to allow us to do the Tobago Transportation Agency. However, because we understand that there is going to be significant collaboration because a big chunk of our travel is inter-island travel, there needs to be that clear understanding with the agencies in Trinidad, those State Agencies in Trinidad.

There needs to be a very clear understanding of who is

responsible for what, where, when and how as it relates to the Tobago Transportation Agency. Which is why we suggested in the Motion to write to the Cabinet as a matter of urgency, to include the need for this and basically as my Minority Leader indicated, let us start creating the Memorandum of Understandings that are necessary so that this works seamlessly.

Madam Presiding Officer, may I quickly add, that with a PNMCentral Government and a PNM-Tobago House of Assembly, this should be even easier then we envision because that was one of the many, many, many campaign promises of the PNM (People’s National Movement) that when you

have Central Government is PMM and the Tobago House of Assembly is PNM everything would be easy.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: Everything would be easy including getting a boat.

COUNCILLOR DR. F. B.YISRAEL: Well obviously that has not worked but everything would be easy and we are not going to forget that promise.

By the way, let me just throw this out because I heard the Minister – I maybe incorrect so please forgive me if I am wrong. I understand that the Minister with responsibility for Transportation has been speaking very loudly about how inefficient the Port Authority is and therefore, there may be a need to privatize that process and so forth. It is a possibility that if they are going to go that route and they are willing to hand up that part of it, maybe they can hand it to the Tobago House of Assembly and see if we can run it effectively and efficiently - it is a possibility.

Madam Presiding Officer, the next issue I would like to touch on is as it relates to cost implications. Because as rightly said, not because we want to run the services meaning taking over what Caribbean Airlines, what Port Authority does and what the Inter-island Transportation Service does but because we would need to significantly update the infrastructure we would need to significantly change how we function currently. There are going to be resource needs for the Tobago Transportation Agency and I said, “resources” very specifically but I want to start by talking about this idea

that we cannot do things in Tobago because we cannot find people in Tobago with the necessary skills and competencies. Now that is a fallacy that’s been used that is something that has been propagated all the time but we must also remember that Tobagonians have always been very intellectual people and Tobagonians have always left Tobago because there were no opportunities for advancement here and they advance themselves elsewhere and we are a hundred and ten percent (110%) sure that if we really start advertising that this Agency is going to happen and these are the skills we need we will find people dare I say, we will find Tobagonians who are capable, who are competent, who want to come back home to do this because this is the way it should be. We can attract those people with the necessary skills to come and run the agency.

Madam Presiding Officer, but about the money, because you are right this is going to cost quite a bit and as I was saying, the Member for Lambeau talked about the money. One of the things, yes, for us to really encourage those people to come we would have to pay them and we would have to ensure that they are well remunerated.

That is sure, that is a fact but we

need to understand and Tobago needs to understand, Tobagonians need to understand, the Tobago House of Assembly needs to understand but more importantly, the Central Government of Trinidad and Tobago needs to understand that we have been getting the minimum percentage of the budget for the last how many years and we cannot use a percentage of the budget argument to fund something like this.

The Central Government needs to also understand that the same way that it can invest and it is using the term “invest� in the Port in Toco it must also be willing and be committed to investing in Tobago. It must, the same way it is willing to invest for a Port in Toco, even though there are many other Ports in Trinidad it must also be willing to invest in Tobago because it must understand that investing in Tobago would mean that in the future if this thing is done right the returns that we can gain from having such an Agency run effectively and efficiently in Tobago means that we will no longer need to ask for any handout from the Central Government.

It is important to note though, that even though we have been getting bear minimum if we are honest with ourselves Tobago’s contribution as it relates to the oil and gas revenues of Trinidad and Tobago have been significant and we have not been getting anywhere close to what we have been contributing to the coffers of Trinidad and Tobago.

So the Central Government must also commit. But then that is going to be easy because as you guys said, PNM in Trinidad, PNM in Tobago, it is going to be an easy argument to make.

Madam Presiding Officer, additionally, there are current votes in Tobago, in the Tobago House of Assembly that we can redefine, that we can group together and we can start getting funding into.

Under the Division of Tourism, Transportation and Culture, we have fifteen (15) Transportation and communications (h) - (c) Transportation.

These votes have not received any monies for the last couple years, we can

start for 2019 to budget and ensure that we make a credible argument to get monies placed into those votes.

By the way, this is the perfect time to have this Debate because I know that the Call Circular recently went out to have the budgets for the various Divisions be presented very soon. So we could ensure that if we agree today on this Tobago Transportation Agency that the funding for it or some of the funding for it can come within fiscal 2019.

In addition to the votes in Tobago, there are votes in Trinidad where if under the Ministry of Works and Transportation in the Office of the Prime Minister and so forth, that can be transferred to Tobago if you are really, really honest and you are really, really committed to having us gather the autonomy that we said we are going to get shortly.

We have under the

Ministry of Works: (b)

Bus Transportation – Design and construction of new Passenger Terminal in Sangsters Hill.

Whatever monies there, hand it over let us use it. (h)

Sea Transport - upgrade of the Scarborough Terminal building.

8 (25): Installation for new aides for navigation of the Scarborough Harbour.

Whatever monies are there, hand it over. Remember, again, you promised us PNM in Trinidad and PNM in Tobago, this is going to be very easy. Oh and

by the way, the billions that are being spoken about for the new airport, hand it over - millions; billions, even it is a dollar - hand it over.

Madam Presiding Officer, I would like to wind down by asking Tobagonians to allow their minds to move away from what passes as development in Tobago right now, and to think about the endless possibilities that are available if we really do implement this, “Tobago Transportation Agency” and implement correctly. Madam Presiding Officer, the little changes that can be made, the simple things. Yes! Having the first flight leaving from Tobago instead of Trinidad; having a Mechanical Shop; Aviation Mechanical whatever it is called, here in Tobago, which would open up so many possibilities for the Aviation Mechanics; the Aviation Engineers; those people who are possibly Tobagonians and are interested in being in Tobago, or are interesting in coming back to Tobago, the possibilities are endless. We now have the opportunity to have the pilots, so we have our little boys and girls aspire to be pilots because they know they do not have to move from Tobago to live anywhere else to be a pilot. Some of the planes are housed here. Now, remember as I said before, these are some of the negotiations that we can have with Caribbean Airlines or with whomever is providing the service. But if we do not speak up, if we do not say what the policy is, and if we do not make a credible argument, then we cannot go to anybody and negotiate anything.

Madam Presiding Officer, another possibility is having a, Fueling Bunker” here in Tobago. Having a “Fueling Bunker”. What about setting up an International Warehousing System right there at Cove, where there are

items shipped from Amazon, shipped for EBay, shipped from everywhere they are anywhere? They are warehoused in Tobago because we have both cargo and passengers coming and moving from the island. Those are the kinds of visions that we are seeing for Tobago.

By the way, these are not

new ideas, these are all things that have been proposed. But it just took effort and took political will to have them implemented.

Of course, Madam Presiding Officer, all of the downstream benefits are also endless:  The Food and Drink Industry;  Accommodations;  Entertainment;  Education

All of these things are possibilities that we can build on if we implement this correctly.

Madam Presiding Officer, there is a reason why:  The Dutch;  The French;  The British;

all of those empires fought so many times for this little island of Tobago. It is because they know that it is strategically placed. It is well placed to be the ideal transshipment point between:

 North;  Central;  South America,  Africa and other areas.

It is perfectly placed.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Member, your speaking time has

ended.

EXTENSION OF SPEAKING TIME Motion made: That the Councillor’s speaking time be extended by ten (10) minutes. [Mr. A. Augustine]

Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, your speaking time has been extended by a further ten (10) minutes.

DR. F.BYISRAEL: Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Now, as I was saying there is a reason why all of those have been fighting for Tobago and it is because Tobago really is strategically placed to be an ideal transshipment point. In this situation, you would use the word, “Transshipment Point”, in a positive light, unlike how it is being used in the past to talk about Trinidad and Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I wind up, this is a necessary fix, it will take time, it will take effort and it will take significant hard work. But if the Tobago House of Assembly wants to show that it can really manage its own affairs as we have requested via that Tobago Autonomy Bill, we must show now that we are man enough to do the hard work. I have a suspicion that we did not really read the Motion correctly. Let me repeat the last part.

“BE IT RESOLVED that this House write to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, as a matter of urgency, indicating the need for a Tobago Transportation Agency, with the responsibility for all transportation needs specific to Tobago, i.e. ground transportation, air transportation and sea transportation;

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Tobago Transportation

Agency

be

implemented

immediately,

notwithstanding the proposed

Tobago

Bill

as

the

Tobago

transportation sector is in dire straits.”

I repeat that because I want us to understand that what we on this side are suggesting is for us to take a little bit of time and to think through what will work best for the people of Tobago. What we have been doing has not worked, and we need us to think and to not be insane and to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

I would also Madam Presiding Officer, because I heard it mentioned before warn us that Tobago is sick and tired of our water down Plans and Policies. Tobago is ready for real development, let us stop being inside this box that says that we have done it the same way over and over, so we will continue doing it that way. Let us start thinking big! The possibilities are endless for us if we do this the right way.

Madam Presiding Officer, Tobago’s growth is hinge on us not just arguing back and forth, but understanding that we have been placed here to make decisions on behalf of the people who put us here because they have confidence in our ability.

The Minority Council dare I say, the Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP), we will continue fighting “tooth and nail” because we will not accept mediocre; we will not accept average. We only want what is best for

Tobago. Madam Presiding Officer, our mantra goes, “We will build a better Tobago, child by child, family by family; village by village� and we are sincerely hoping that the Executive Council uses this opportunity to agree with this Motion, not any water down version of this Motion, to help us implement what is best for Tobago.

Thank you. [Desk thumping]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Secretary of Tourism, Culture and

Transportation, Councillor Nadine Stewart Phillips.

SECRETARY OF TOURISM, CULTURE AND TRANSPORTATION [Hon. N. Phillips]: [Desk thumping] Thank you Madam Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to contribute to this debate at 4.10 p.m. in the afternoon.

A Motion put forward by the Minority Leader.

Madam Presiding Officer, much has been said by my Colleague, the Member for Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant, so I do not intend to spend too much time in constant repetition.

Madam Presiding Officer, much has been said by my colleague, the Member for Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant so I do not intend to spend too much time in constant repetition.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want the record to reflect that as Secretary of Tourism, Culture and Transportation, I understand how important interisland connectivity is to the tourism sector in Tobago. As a matter of fact, over the years domestic arrivals to Tobago has contributed to about fifty-five percent (55%) of our overall arrivals. So both the air and the seabridge, Madam Presiding Officer, they are both key to the sustainability of the island’s tourism efforts.

Madam Presiding Officer, I know there are challenges, we know there are challenges, we have experienced these challenges as a matter of fact, over the past months but as policy makers we must ensure that the solutions that we put forward are a part of the holistic process.

Madam Presiding Officer, I listened to both the Minority Leader and the Minority Councillor and I ended up confused because this Motion belongs to the Minority Leader but the Minority Leader in his presentation spoke to the Tobago Transportation Agency having overall responsibility for policy, for operation, for everything related to air, sea and ground transportation and then we had the Minority Councillor who in no uncertain terms contradicted her Leader and said another thing that this Agency would have responsibility for specifics. So I am kind of confused even as I go forward but I would go on nonetheless.

Now I want to speak to the Port Authority Act of Trinidad and Tobago Chapter 51 (1), Clause 8 subsection (1) (c) and it outlines the functions of the Port Authority which gives them the authority to operate the

Transportation Services between Trinidad and Tobago on behalf of the Government of Trinidad and Tobago and the management of the Port Authority reports to the Minister and the Ministry of Works and Transportation.

Now Caribbean Airlines was incorporated on September 27 th, 2006 as a wholly owned State Enterprise under the Ministry of Finance. I heard the Minority Leader putting Caribbean Airlines under the Ministry of Works and Transport.

So it shows, you bring a Motion to this House, you are asking

for a creation of a Tobago Transportation Agency yet you do not have the facts, yet you do not do the research and you come and you stand and you “babble� in your usual tones and want us to support a Motion in this current form.

Madam Presiding Officer, now if we are proposing a Tobago Transportation Agency to be implemented, what about the arrangements that already exist in relation to the air and seabridge moreso, where is the funding coming from? I know the Minority Councillor indicated that she would outline where the funds would come from but I did not hear anything I probably missed it. Is there a financial arrangement in place to ensure that this Tobago Transportation Agency would be able to effectively manage all transportation requirements in relation to the air, sea and ground as the Minority is putting forward?

So, we are saying that this Motion was not carefully thought out by the Minority and what we should be recommending as a matter of fact, what we

are recommending is that the Tobago House of Assembly and the Executive Council establish stronger relationships and be more involved in the decision-making of what already exist.

Because let us say this Agency is

created or implemented immediately as the Motion is asking us to do, what will the structure look like?

My colleague when he spoke, asked for the

structure so I hope that the Minority Leader in his wrapping up will indicate to us what the structure will look like.

One of the Whereas as well in the Motion and my colleague hinted to it, outlined the Government of Trinidad and Tobago creating the Tobago Tourism Agency Limited, I mean, we spoke about this, we spoke about it in the media. This Agency was created by Executive Council Minute 69 of February 2017, and again, I want to reiterate, this was borne out of the vision of our Honourable Chief Secretary, Kelvin V. Charles [Desk thumping] and this is something that the stakeholders as well have been clamouring for over a number of years and this was done even before the TDC (Tourism Development Company) dissolved in Trinidad.

So when the TDC was

dissolved they form their Trinidad Tourism Company Limited and also the Regulatory Authority Limited that has specific focus for standards in all of the sectors in Trinidad and Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, this Tobago House of Assembly Administration, we understand the significance of the air and seabridge to commerce and economic activities and we will continue to lobby for provision of an affective, reliable and integrated land, sea and air Transportation system.

Now, the Tobago House of Assembly Act Section 26 (2) and I heard the Minority Leader spoke to that as well. It gives us the authority to enter into Memorandum of Understandings with agencies such as the Port Authority and this is what we should be looking at with a view to taking full ownership in the future.

Just earlier this month, I was a part of a meeting with the Chief Secretary and the Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment held with the Port Authority and other relevant stakeholders and one of the discussions surrounded the Tobago House of Assembly having greater input into the operations of the Port Authority. As a matter of fact, the Chairman indicated that they would soon be sitting down to come up with the ideas for the future because it is a new Chairman and he did agree that the Tobago House of Assembly would have a seat in that decision-making process. So with the establishment of these relationships and systems such as these, more dialogue and sustainable partnerships between the two islands on transportation matters will be created.

Now the core objective should be to strengthen and improve Tobago’s involvement in the existing arrangements and make it more accountable, reliable and efficient.

Our focus should be to ensure that Tobago has

significant and meaningful presence in the resolution and ongoing administration towards the development of an integrated and efficient transport infrastructure on the island.

Madam Presiding Officer, might I also add that it is critical for us to understand that the transportation challenges specifically as it relates to trade

between Trinidad and Tobago is not just an issue for us here in Tobago because it affects our fellow Trinidadian counterparts as well.

I am

informed that there are several Trinidad businessmen and business enterprises conducting business in Tobago who rely on both the air and the seabridge as a means of plying their trade and what we have to understand is that the issue of transportation is one that affects the national community and therefore, it must be seen in that context as a fundamental issue.

Madam Presiding Officer, interestingly, when there are problems some people see it as an opportunity to celebrate. In fact, some persons are very happy and use this situation for their own personal gains and political agendas and I can assure you that when this Motion was being crafted it was crafted with the intention that we would be debating here today and there would be no fast ferry on the seabridge.

So we are heartened that in fact,

the T&T Spirit is back, the T&T Spirit is operational and there is movement of persons on the seabridge. [Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, the importance of the air bridge cannot be over emphasized, as there are persons who must travel between the islands by a faster mode of transportation. On this note, I really want to complement Caribbean Airlines Management for their ability over the months to rise to the occasion and provide much needed transportation for persons travelling between the islands.

Amidst the

challenges, the airline continues to provide the capacity required to seamlessly move inter-island commuters between Trinidad and Tobago.

As a matter of fact Madam Presiding Officer, our figures show that since 2013, the airline increased capacity on the air bridge by seven percent (7%) and carried eleven percent (11%) more passengers.

For the period

January 01 to March 31, 2018, a total of two hundred and sixty-five thousand, three hundred and eighty-two (265, 382) seats were provided and of those seats two and thirty-eight thousand and ninety-eight (238,098) were utilized.

Although from time to time there have been delays Madam

Presiding Officer, the airline advises that their on time performance has been consistently in the area of eighty-five percent (85%).

So, Madam Presiding Officer, there is a school of thought that posits in time of crisis the first response should be plan. Plans should be based on data analysis and implementation which requires of course institutions.

Therefore, it is critical at this juncture for us to understand what are the short and long-term objectives of this Tobago Transportation Agency? There are some questions I would like to ask the Minority Leader to answer in his wrapping up or possibly their other Speaker. Given the urgency to establish this entity, what roles and functions are expected from this entity? What would become of the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago and Caribbean Airlines in servicing the domestic route?

Is it the expectation that the

Tobago House of Assembly is required to provide funding and subsidies for these services? Is the Minority Leader suggesting that the Agency would now have the power to acquire fast Ferries and cargo boats and a new airline to service the domestic route? These are some answers that I look forward to getting as the Minority Leader wraps up the debate.

So, Madam Presiding Officer, as Tobagonians, we do not need more bureaucracy, more duplication of efforts and expense on this matter. We need to move forward together to implement recommendations agreed upon to build this island and ensure that Tobago has a significant input in the present arrangements that are now focused on resolving existing challenges to the development of a sustainable integrated and efficient Transportation System.

So, Madam Presiding Officer, I did indicate that I was not going to be very long, but based on the contribution of my Colleague from this side, it is clear that the Minority is yet to have a firm grip on their own Motion. So, I would therefore like to propose the following amendments Madam Presiding Officer. That the words:

â€œâ€Śwrite to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, as a matter of urgency, indicating the need for a Tobago Transportation Agency, with the responsibility for all transportation needs specific to Tobago, i.e. ground transportation, air transportation and sea transportation;â€?

be omitted.

The following be inserted Madam Presiding Officer: BE IT RESOLVED that this House supports the Executive Council in appointing a technical working team, with the mandate to complete a holistic assessment of the operations and management of

the Trinidad and Tobago inter-island Transportation Company Limited, Caribbean Airlines Limited as well as the Public Transport Services Corporation.

In the final Resolution Madam Presiding Officer, that the following words be omitted:

“..the Tobago Transportation Agency be implemented immediately, notwithstanding the proposed Tobago Bill as the Tobago transportation sector is in dire straits�.

That the following words Madam Presiding Officer, be included: AND BE IT FURTHER REESOLVED that this technical working team present the Executive Council with specific recommendation for the efficient and effective management and operations of these essential services in the special interest of Tobagonians.

I thank you Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Is there a Motion to accept these amendments?

Amendment seconded, reserving the right to speak at a later stage.

[Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes]

MADAM

PRESIDING

OFFICER:

The

Representative

for

Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

MR. FARLEY AUGUSTINE [Parlatuvier/L’Anse Fourmi/Speyside]: Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, two (2) thing are abundantly clear:

(1)

is that Tobago has a transportation problem;

(2)

we are afraid.

Those are the two (2) things that are abundantly clear. It is surprising how afraid we are to make big leaps given that collectively, we are saying to Trinidad and saying to Tobagonians looking on, that we want greater autonomy. Perhaps we need to pinch ourselves and realize that greater autonomy comes with greater responsibilities. We cannot be clamouring for greater autonomy and not also be simultaneously clamouring for greater responsibilities.

I want to look at the Resolutions as originally noted. Two (2) things are resolved. The first is that:

“…this House write to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago, as a matter of urgency, indicating the need for a Tobagonian Transportation

Agency,

transportation

needs

with

the

specific

to

responsibility Tobago,

i.e.

for

all

ground

transportation, air transportation and sea transportation;”

Let us pause there for a bit.

The Motion by indicating that we should write to the Cabinet and also if you look at the second paragraph of the Motion, you will see that inherently, there is a recognition that there are now some elements of Tobago’s transportation needs that are not now vested in the hands of the Tobago House of Assembly.

That is the first thing, and we are

acknowledging the Port Authority, Caribbean Airlines and Airport Authority.

We are also acknowledging Licensing Office and all of these other Agencies that are not directly under the operations of the Tobago House of Assembly through which the Tobago House of Assembly indirectly contributes to their governance.

So we are recognizing that first and

foremost. That is why the Minority Leader at the start of the Motion made reference to the fact that we can in fact enter into MOUs (Memorandum of Understanding) with some of these Agencies as may be necessary.

[Interruption]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, I am sorry I have to stop you in the midst of your debate. However, we do have to observe the Standing Order that we suspend this sitting at this time and return at 5.00 p.m.

4.33 p.m.: Sitting suspended.

5.09 p.m: Sitting resumed.

MADAM

PRESIDING

OFFICER:

Representative

for

L’Anse

Fourmi/Parlatuvier/Speyside you may now resume your contribution.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE:

Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. At the

break, I was explaining that the Motion acknowledges that there are elements of Tobago’s transportation needs that now rest in Trinidad either through agencies or through the Central Government, so we are not being oblivious to that when we are saying, “Let us form a Tobago Transportation Agency.” We are saying that the Agency must acknowledge that and must work within the limits of the law either through MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) or what might be applicable now until such time as Tobago gets full rights for all of its transportation needs.

Additionally, the resolution says that it is responsible so that the Agency will see about all transportation needs specific to Tobago. Let me clarify that in the event that that person might misinterpret that.

At present, the Central Government is more or less responsible for all our transportation needs. But guess what, it does not mean that the Central

Government itself does all or provides all the transportation needs for the people of Trinidad and Tobago. What it does is that it crafts policies that facilitate private sector. That is why the taxi drivers are private and you have private bus companies. It facilitates government agencies or it would have created government agencies like the PTSC and the Port Authority and the Airport Authority and so on, to help manage and to divulge some of those responsibilities. So saying that the Tobago Transportation Agency is responsible for all the transportation needs does not mean that the Tobago Transportation Agency will purchase every boat to sail between Trinidad and Tobago, every plane to fly between Trinidad and Tobago or have to directly manage air transport, sea transport and ground transport.

In a similar

fashion, the Tobago Transportation Agency can cooperate with other agencies to facilitate private sector growth.

The second part of the resolution says, that the Tobago Transportation Agency be implemented immediately.

What we are asking to be

implemented immediately is the Tobago Transportation Agency. No one on this side believes that in setting up the Tobago Transportation Agency today, that tomorrow the Agency will be able to complete and fullfil all of Tobago’s transportation needs. It does not mean that in setting it up today that the Agency will automatically tomorrow be able to manage everything. In fact, we envisioned that the Tobago Transportation Agency will do what they are asking for:  Needs assessment;  A transportation audit.

All of these things can be done by the said Agency and we are calling for this Agency because we feel that we have to begin to prepare ourselves in advance of greater autonomy; which means that we have to begin to set systems in place to manage some of our most critical areas among them transportation.

Now, persons have said well, “Look the cost of transportation between Trinidad and Tobago now is enormous we cannot manage it.” Using that argument would be the same as we coming to the House and say, “Look, we wasted money on a zipline, we cannot find eight million dollars ($8m.) and monies have been wasted in Tobago from time immoral and so we should never ever have greater autonomy.” That is not correct reasoning because even if in the past, we would have misspent or made mistakes in our investment that should not stop us from aiming for a better future that has far less errors. So, to say that at present, the cost of transportation between the both islands are so enormous that we should not set up a Transportation Agency is not the correct logic to apply to this case. What we have to do is to piece by piece build this thing out and we have to understand that this is a real need for Tobagonians.

I want to read on Hansard some text messages, so you will understand why there is a need for an integrated approach to transportation because I in particular want to focus on ground transportation. The first text message says: “Good morning, Mr. Farley, I was to text you last night sorry, phone problems. I heard PTSC (Public Transport Service Corporation) plan to cut some of the service of the maxi operating to L’Anse Fourmi

during the week from Monday. Can you check them please? We need them.

They can stop the 10.30 but we need the others. We need two (2) to leave at 6.00 a.m., one (1) from L’Anse Fourmi and one (1) from Bloody Bay because most mornings most of us are left behind. Maxis full from L’Anse Fourmi.

In the afternoon two at 4.30, one (1) at 2.30 is okay and hoping we get new buses soon.”

This is Ms. James from Bamboo Hill.

That is someone from Parlatuvier. Clearly, we have a transportation problem that has to be addressed and this was last week Friday morning.

On Sunday morning, I got a Whatsapp message, it says: “Hey, good day, I want to know if you all can do something about

the bus situation because we only going to get three (3)

buses

coming to L’Anse Fourmi per day, starting from

tomorrow and

that is 6.30, 12.30 and 4.30.”

I responded same day: “Yes, I am already on it, this was brought to my attention Friday morning and we are working on it. Okay, thanks.”

I got a message back on Tuesday at 8.32 a.m. saying:

“L’Anse Fourmi back to bus and maxi run good.”

I asked: “Does that mean that they fix the issue?”

“Yes, it looks so, we got 6.00 a.m and 8.00 a.m.”

Madam Presiding Officer, so clearly, there is a need for an integrated approach to transportation on the island. We cannot wait until we get the autonomy. Until things are signed over completely to us and more rush to deal with the myriad of new responsibilities that we will have. We have to begin to prepare for those new responsibilities almost as if we already have them.

Some areas we need to begin to bill out, I have already made it clear that having little transportation agency does not mean that every single transportation need Tobago has would be addressed as of tomorrow after the passing of the Motion, and I have already indicated that having the Transportation Agency will facilitate what the majority is asking for and that need assessment that has to be done that will guide how we integrate air, sea and ground transportation.

Why should we have an integrated approach? We should have an integrated approach because there are obvious economic benefits. We have improvements in productivity and I could tell you, that as perhaps the only Member of this House is still not driving I could tell you that to depend on Public Transport in Tobago can be the most unproductive thing that you can do. You cannot even time it, that is the reality.

The reality is that few days after being inaugurated I travelled on the bus to L’Anse Fourmi alongside the Assemblyman for Canaan/Bon Accord and guess what, two new buses then we were promised then by PTSC (Public Transport Service Corporation) by November last year, we will get more new busses still have not seen them.

Guess what! Sometimes the

buses to L’Anse Fourmi break down because of parts. What kind of parts?

Brakes!

As simple as that.

Brakes!

That is the reality that some

Tobagonians face. So, we do have a transportation problem that requires an “Integrated Approach” that requires more than just going and buying some new buses and dropping them on the road. That requires that we have a sort of a systematic revolutionizing of what we deem as, “Public Transportation” on this island.

So productivity can be improved; and tourism can also be improved.

If we have the necessary linkages who is to say that someone travelling from the airport in Trinidad cannot buy bus tickets; buy bus cards, whatever that is necessary and take the bus from the airport straight to Englishman’s Bay? Or take the bus from the seaport to Charlotteville?

That is what an

Integrated Approach will do. That is what the Tobago Transportation Agency must do in crafting and Integrated Transportation Approach. It is also beneficial to have this integrated approach because we need to correct how we move people from Trinidad to Tobago and back. That is the reality!

The reality of our existence is that we live in a twin island Republic, we have two main islands and there is a need; as a case of public need; public service to have functioning, “Air and sea transportation”. I could tell

you that this Motion was not done in hopes that the sea bridge would still collapse. This was done as a result of the collapse of the sea bridge. That is the reality.

Employment can be improved, we look at business activity can be improved; investments can be improved because the Tobago Transportation Agency can actually look at new areas where we can send buses ; where we can make connectivity available so that smaller communities can open up to the rest of Tobago and the rest of the world. So, having an Integrated Transportation Approach via the Tobago Transportation Agency, is what is absolutely necessary at this time.

I wish to also indicate that this Agency must take it as its responsibility to see transportation in and of itself as an Industry. More than just something that we need, and in seeing it as an Industry, this Agency will have to look at how we make our Ports more viable in terms of economics; how do we ensure that Tobago becomes a hub? You cannot have a vibrant Tourism Industry unless there is a vibrant Transportation Industry. Both goes, “hand in hand�. The reality is, the majority seem reluctant to have a Transportation Agency, and satisfied with the status quo which is having a Transportation Coordinator that could mislead a whole Division into giving away eight million dollars ($8m.). We have to move away from that, from one coming and making all those recommendations that might mislead people to us having an Agency that can sit down and in an integrated fashion look at air; sea; and ground transportation.

The idea of an Integrated Transportation System, is to look across the network at all the different transportation options available to Tobago, and to find an optimal blend that can serve Tobago’s needs. That is what this about.

That is why we need the Agency. The Agency will do that kind of research for us, will do the need assessment for us and will chart the course forward.

I really wish, that we do not wait until a Tobago Bill is passed in Trinidad, if it is passed, then to rush and grapple with the new responsibilities that we would get in terms of transportation. It is my desire to see us do some preplanning. What this requires, if passed as is, is that we will set up the Agency.

We will have MOUs (Memorandum of

Understanding) via Cabinet Agencies and so on, like Port Authority and Airport Authority in terms of operations and management.

In the

meanwhile, it will definitely lead to the increase in our involvement in these Services; in terms of the management of these services, and it will give us a foretaste of what that kind of responsibility will entail.

I want to end by addressing something raised by the Member for Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant.

In that he spoke about the need for private

involvement, as if having a Tobago Transportation Agency automatically negates that. That is not the case.

In fact, when I heard the Minister of Works and Transportation Mr. Sinnanan spoke about privatizing the sea-bridge, I spoke to it from two (2) issues, I said (1) absolutely no to “Complete Privatization”. Absolutely, “No” to that!

I remember being on the Rise and Shine Programme on Tobago Channel 5 and indicating that perhaps there is a need for some Public Private Partnership that perhaps there is a need for us to invite private people to ply the route, and maybe we will have product differentiation. We are talking about “Sea-Bridge� here. Maybe some boats might charge a bit more for a bed or to iron your clothes, or have a shower on the boat. Some boats might be traditional fast ferry; some boats might have music and entertainment there. I said there is need for us to allow into the System some private players. I also said one (1) thing the State should do, is perhaps keep at least one (1) boat with the purpose of helping regulate the cost to the consumer.

If there is at least one (1) boat owned by the State at all times, then there is a possibility that the poorest among us will always afford to travel between the two (2) islands. So, I could not have posited that in the public airways and believe that somehow forming a Tobago Transportation Agency will mean; that we spend all the money ourselves; that we subsidize it all on our own, we pay for everything ourselves. Clearly, that is not practical; and clearly that is not what the Tobago Transportation Agency is set up to do. What it should be set up to do, is to be the overarching body that give policy guidelines as to how we integrate ground; air; and sea transportation on the island. That is what it is to do. It has to be a function of the Tobago House of Assembly that will do all of this for us. I do not see why this is such a difficult thing for those opposite.

Those opposite, know that we do have a transportation problem; those opposite knows we are asking for greater autonomy; which means greater

responsibilities; those opposite know we have to begin to prepare from now.

If we all are aware of these things, then let us all act as though we are aware and begin to make these steps now.

This thing has to be futuristic,

development has to be more than box drains and concrete walls. It has to be more than that. This has to be about how we see ourselves fifteen (15); twenty (20) years down the road, this has to be about Tobago perhaps having one of the most active sea ports and airports this side of the Caribbean. This has to do with thinking futuristically. We are nowhere there now. It is not even close in our vision, but we cannot wait to get the vision to do it. We got to prepare for it, thinking twenty (20) years down the road.

This is what this Motion is. Is the Motion twenty (20) years too early? I do not know. Tobagonians will be the judge of that – twenty (20) years from now. But certainly, we think that this futuristic Motion must be passed as is today, in this House.

Thank you Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Leader of Assembly Business and

Secretary of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment.

LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT [Hon. K. Des Vignes]: [Desk thumping] Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

Let me greet every one of you around this Horseshoe as we really get into an issue that has been truly we cannot even describe it anymore as a bugbear or vexatious to Tobagonians – transportation. Madam Presiding Officer, as I read the Motion I was reminded instantly of an anecdote I do not know if it was a joke or how serious it was from one of my mentors and he was working at Texaco at the point in time and the Company was introducing computers. Of course, at that point in time, computers did not look like what they look like today and he is saying that of all the Engineers there Electrical, Mechanical and so on, they could not get this brand new computer to work and they came up with all types of different reasons why.

The capacitor, is not working, the electrical loading the building, the compatibility and so on and so forth.

Madam Presiding Officer, after hours of debate, the Janitor came and plugged in the computer there it began to work. It then says, quite clearly it send the message that if you diagnose incorrectly you shall prescribe incorrectly.

Quite interestingly, the Minority Assemblyman spoke to the fact that he is the only Member around the Horseshoe who does not drive.

Well,

Madam Presiding Officer, I will share that I drive what some people might

Call, an “Old Faithful.” Although some have advised or chastised that you should change the vehicle I tend to like my Old Faithful.

Madam Presiding Officer, my vehicle is unique and I could remember one of the first times I took it to a mechanic the mechanic said to me yes, well you need to get “x, y, z” parts and I have to order my parts, they have to be shipped in and so on.

Madam Presiding Officer, low and behold, two (2) months later, my vehicle was not fixed. Again the mechanic had diagnosed incorrectly, hence he prescribed incorrectly.

Madam Presiding Officer, the reality about this as we look at this note the intent seems to be pure I do not think that the Minority is trying to mislead this House or there is mal-intent or there may be I could be wrong probably. I tend to see the best in people no matter how hard or far or deep you have to look.

Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is, it is very clear that the Minority has not put sufficient thought into their beloved concept of a Tobago Transportation Agency.

Madam Presiding Officer, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You know as I sat there pondering and looking at the Minority Leader speaking about this getting everything under including jet skis imagine that, he wanted jet skis and taxi badges all under this one Tobago

Transportation Agency Limited and I looked at him and I said imagine if this agency became unionized and they decided to strike “crapaud smoke Tobago pipe.” [Laughter] Could you imagine a situation where every single transportation service is vested under one Agency?

Then some radicalize or maniac

whichever one we might describe it as Union Leader decides well, we are going to shut it down because they tell us zero, zero, zero, letter or no letter.

[Laughter] Madam Presiding Officer, the Minority Assemblyman came here and started speaking about the fact that there is a problem.

You know I

sometimes give credit to the Minority Assemblyman because he is a fellow Bishopian.

We come out of the same institution and though sometimes I may have teased him and call him “Prince Charming” today, when I saw him decked out in his regalia he looked more like “Captain Obvious” without the hat.

Yes, we have a problem! Obviously! As my nephew might say, “Daw.” But by identifying or outlining a problem are you really positing a solution?

Have you really gone deep enough to understand what are the true causes or the fundamental causes of the problems that we face today whether it be on the air bridge, the sea bridge, the Public Transportation Service or PTSC buses or even our jet skis?

Has the Minority even sat down to truly analyse what they want to bring before this House? one thing,

Because the Minority Leader stood up and said

then the Minority Councillor said another thing and then the Minority Assemblyman said something completely different. They going around and around in circles clearly confused by the very concept that are attempting to introduce as revolutionary here to this House and the simple thing I could say to you is, “Wheel and come again.” Because again, the intent might be good but you clearly have not thought things out properly.

It is clear when you look at the preambles to the Motion because we start speaking about the Fifth Schedule of the Tobago House of Assembly Act. For all intent and purposes we recognize around this very Horse Shoe that the THA Act has severe limitations and it is quite funny that the Minority would even come here to say that the Tobago House of Assembly is indirectly responsible for the Port Authority, Caribbean Airlines and PTSC when as a matter of fact, last year I could recall looking at a video where the Minority Leader and his cohorts were saying adamantly that the Tobago House of Assembly under the Fifth Schedule has direct responsibility.

But again, the Jack Warner style politics clearly is at play, yesterday is yesterday and today is today. The very same Minority who was bashing and lambasting the Tourism Secretary for the formation of the Tourism Agency Limited they are coming here now to say that it is such a great thing.

Thank you very much and again, commendations to the Honourable Chief Secretary Kelvin Charles and his astute and visionary leadership.

Because we are here today, Madam Presiding Officer, looking at how we can change the way we do things because as the Chief Secretary says time and time again, it is “business as unusual” and business as unusual does not mean

that we are trying to put Airports in Roxborough or Deep Water Harbours in Roxborough or even miniature Golf Courses at the Studley Park Land fill.

Madam Presiding Officer, business as unusual means that we are willing to start looking critically at the challenges that we are facing and analysing them effectively and properly, employing the resources that we have or the resources that we have to bring on board and say you know what this is the fundamental cause of the challenges that we are facing today.

Let us start moving forward. Because it is business as unusual under the Division of Finance and the Economy under the Leadership of Secretary Joel Jack, there is now a Public Private Partnership Unit that is functioning very well. Because we are looking already and EIDCOT (Eco-Industrial Company of Tobago), I am informed has already received the mandate to start looking or issue a request for proposals for containerized Port in Tobago with Cove being one of the locations that we are looking at.

Because it is not just enough to look at having Caricom designation that is not enough that is not thinking big just yet.

Caricom is still just the

Caribbean. We are thinking International, International shipping lines.

I am informed reliably by the Secretary for Finance that International Shipping Lines have already began to contact him, expressing an interest in doing business for Tobago. If you want to talk about doing business as unusual let us talk about that. Let us talk about the fact that Tobago can start handling not only our own cargo but cargo for the rest of the Latin American Region, not just Caricom - come on. Let us get with the big leads. have to get serious when we are talking about this.

We

We are talking about moving Tobago forward and I happen to be privy to discussions for the development of the new A. N. R. Robinson International Airport Terminal and we would have heard that the Finance Minister would have pointed out that the price tag at this time is five hundred million dollars ($500m.) excluding the acquisition of land. I sat with one of the Financiers, again Public Private Partnership and the proposal that we are looking at is ensuring that the airport can handle one point two million (1.2m.) passengers annually in the first instance, with a direct plan to move that to two million (2m.) arrivals annually‌

HON. CHIEF SECRETARY: Three point two million (3.2m.)‌

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Three point two million (3.2m.) Thank you very much Chief Secretary. Three point two million (3.2m.) annually. A big part of that has to be our drive to redevelop the Tourism Sector; rejuvenate the sector.

I am happy that we spoke about the Tobago Tourism Agency Limited, because they have presented to the stakeholders and they are pretty pleased, and I must say at this time, that the Plan was also presented to our international collaborators and they were pleased at the road map for the development of the Tourism Industry in Tobago. It imbued them with the confidence (and I have seen that some monies have already been signed off

on) to believe that we are serious and seriously on the way to transforming Tobago in a way that we can realize three point two million (3.2m.) passengers annually. Commendations to the Secretary of Tourism, Culture and Transportation. These things are realities.

We speak about Sandals and the Minority was vociferously against the development of Sandals. I remember visiting Grenada in 2013, and at the time Sandals was just about to open its doors. I went for a Conference and I was staying at the Raddison, and there were lines and lines of Grenadians trying to get the job opportunities offered by Sandals. What Sandals has done for Grenada, is open up Grenada, open the door to other investors. You realize, hold on, that something good is happening in Grenada. Now, the Arabs are investing in Grenada. As a matter of fact, I am informed that they suppose to see the largest swimming pool in this part of the hemisphere built in Grenada soon. As the investment roll in, because of the introduction of Sandals, so too did the Airlines roll in, and international arrivals started to increase. They did that (not because they had a Transportation Agency or whatever you want to call it) because there is political will to make a difference and start taking steps towards the rejuvenation of the tourism sector.

We have to be able to make bold steps and bold steps in the interest

and development of Tobago.

As a Tourism student, I would have studied Tourism through my academic life, I grew up in my academic life having concerns about the Cruise Industry and the all-inclusive sector. visit to Sandals myself.

So I decided to even pay a

I saw that Sandals is now adopting a lot of

Corporate Social Responsibility Policies.

Imagine that Coral Reef

Rehabilitation and Sandals could be the game changer that we have been talking about for a long time. But .we have the Minority saying instead, let us have a Tobago Transportation Agency. To do what, I do not know. Up to now, they have not said in certain terms what the Transportation Agency is supposed to do. I have heard of what it not going to do. At least three (3) versions of it. What is it really going to do? Is it really a means to an end?

Is it really the end? Stephen Covie said, “Let us begin with the end in mind�.

But again, we need to be able to understand fully what the

challenges are and what are the causes of our challenges. That is why I fully endorsed the amendments to the Motion as posited by the Secretary of Tourism.

The reality is, I do not know that there are transportation professionals on the Minority bench, I know that some people are professionals at marching. As a matter of fact, [Crosstalk] well, I do not know if they are experts at swimming because it was more of a jet ski and a canoe ride to me, but the marchers I was informed recently that they really wanted to join the Regiment but because of their propensity for misbehavior, the Regiment was not a viable option again. They would have had to resort to Trade Unionism where you can march all you want, but marching is not going to solve the challenges that we have today. We need to properly assess and analyze what are the challenges. That is why I really endorsed the proposition that we have a technical working team. We have some of the most brilliant minds right here in Tobago. Let them do the leg work, let them take a part bit by bit, brick by brick, the sea bridge; the air bridge; ground transportation, let them look at it and look at what makes it tick and turn and then come back

to us and say these are our recommendations to go forward to move this forward. Again, we cannot afford in these times to just feel because I want to do it so, let we do it so. This is not, “Fly by night” like the way some political parties are, “Fly by night”. We really have to look at what we really want to get out of this.

Madam Presiding Officer, if I go back to the Motion, and again we are talking about, “Fly by night” and “Fly by night” politician makes amateur mistakes. I do not understand how the Minority all three (3) of them, I do not know how you want to classify it who is the Leader, who is not the Leader and so on could have looked and decided I do not know if it is the caucus or not, on a Motion that ask this House to write the Cabinet. Have you heard of anything more absurd and ludicrous than that?

Beyond that,

this very Minority is talking about Tobago should stand up and if we are afraid, the time for taking basket done gone already. Let us get serious. The House does not write to the Cabinet, that does not makes sense. Again, “wheel and come again”.

The Tobago Transportation Agency, the intent is probably good, but we need to truly assess what is happening. As my esteem Colleague the Secretary of Tourism would have spoken about the ruling by Justice Kangaloo, that “notwithstanding the provisions of Section 25 (1) of the Tobago House of Assembly Act, we cannot go in contravention to Section 75 (1) of the Constitution”. It means that we cannot just pick up today and go on the Port and say well, “We come, we reach, give me meh boat, or give me meh port”.

The second Schedule of the Port Authority Act and I am happy that the Minority Councillor tried to allude to the Port Authority Act. It means she has been doing some actual research. The second Schedule of the Port Authority Act evens outlines the boundaries of the Port of Scarborough and it clearly vest the port of Scarborough under the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago. The Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago is headed by Board of Commissioners appointed by the President and they report to the Minister of Works and Transport. That is what the Law says.

Again, with the

Minority Leader who is a stranger to the law from time to time, I am not surprised that we are making such fore pass.

The reality is Madam Presiding Officer, we need to be able to understand fully what the challenges are; we need to be able to say, “This can work or this cannot work.� It does not make sense incurring additional cost and the Minority Councillor started calling out Votes. I do not know since when because there is a Vote there is money in the Vote. That is not how things work. Not because you could call a vote means that it is that there is financing available in that Vote. Is it really necessary, we do not know for us to have another layer of bureaucracy? You are saying that, (at least that is what the Minority Councillor said, I will have to get back to what the others said after that, because he did not say the same thing) the Transportation Agency will work out the arrangement for transportation in Tobago. But the boat as the Secretary of Tourism said, the sea bridge and the air bridge does not service Tobago only. Yes, we depend on it a lot more than our Trinidad counterparts, but it is not for us only. So, is it that you are

saying that there is going to be a Trinidad boss and a Tobago boss? Is that how it is going to work? Is that not leading to more confusion? Is that not going to lead to more inefficiencies?

Madam Presiding Officer, as the Minority Assemblyman started speaking about an, “Integrated Transportation Network�, I was taken back to my days of tourism classes. Where theoretically that is pretty sound but there is no jurisdiction I can assure you where there is an integrated transportation approach and there is one agency managing it all. The nuances of managing the seabridge with all of the workings of whether it is a cargo ferry, a fast ferry or conventional ferry the nuances of working with the airbridge whether it is the movement of parts to get hangers, the Civil Aviation requirements all of these things are so far apart that one agency will be stretched beyond to manage all of these resources in these desperate industries. Yes, we want to get a nexus for things going and we are seeing where the Division of Tourism, Culture and Transportation has already by the Chief Secretary putting Culture together with transportation we understand the importance of that nexus of working together.

As the Chief Secretary would always say the jurisdictional walls of Jericho have come down so we have to work together but it does not mean that we have to sit in the same car or driven by the same driver. [Laughter] There must be greater consideration.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I move to wrap up I just want to indicate that the new Airport Terminal will be fully ikayoed certified. It means that

we will be able to truly be a hub for transportation. Again these types of proposal happen without even a Transport Agency being put in place. All the Minority had to do and again in the spirit of partnership if you wanted us to sit at the table and discuss come to us.

The last Motion the Minority Leader will have to attest that the Chief Secretary reached out to him personally let us work together and it is a call that I have been issuing time and time again, let us work together. Yes, you may have brilliant ideas and you may think that they can work but you may end up just like “Icarus in Greek Mythology� because you are talking about going big and going big and spreading your wings and fly but then you might fly too close to the sun unless you might be burnt up or fall into the sea and perish.

Madam Presiding Officer, so I really want to say that it is time that we set up a technical working team and I have all assurances from the Tourism Secretary that this is one of the immediate priorities of the Division set up a technical working team with the mandate to complete a holistic assessment of the operations and management of the Trinidad and Tobago Inter-island Transportation Company Limited, Caribbean Airlines as well as PTSC (Public Transport Service Corporation).

Madam Presiding Officer, before I move on it will be remiss of me not to share some information that has come to hand. Currently, the new buses that have been earmarked for Tobago – the fifteen (15) buses that have been earmarked for Tobago are currently being licenced and tomorrow will be on the PTSC compound in Trinidad. [Desk thumping]

Madam Presiding Officer, further, I am informed that these buses will be shipped to Tobago next week so that PTSC in Tobago can begin operationalizing these busses again. [Desk thumping] We did not need a Transportation Agency to get that done. This was done through proper dialogue conversation, meaningful working with the different agencies. The Chief Secretary has met with PTSC, the Port Authority, he has been meeting continuously with the Chairman with the Board of Cal that persons coming to Tobago for Jazz will be given first priority to come to Tobago. Once you have a Jazz Ticket you have first priority to come to Tobago and that was negotiated by the Chief Secretary himself. [Desk thumping] [Crosstalk] [Laughter] Madam Presiding Officer, so the reality is, the Tobago House of Assembly is truly committed to business as unusual and delivering on the mandate of good governance for the people of Tobago. There are challenges that we face but again, there cannot be knee-jerk reactions, we cannot just say something today and then say something diametrically opposite tomorrow as we know that the Minority Leader is predisposed to do.

Madam Presiding Officer, we look forward to the support of the Minority as we move to form or to commission this technical working team and I look forward to the Tourism Secretary sharing with the public of Tobago the recommendations from these experts in the transportation sector on how we can address the challenges that we are facing today.

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader.

MR. W. DUKE: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. Sometimes I stand here and I do not know where to start. [Laughter] [Desk thumping] The trouble is how do you speak a straight message to a group of people that have gone all over the place. [Laughter] How do you do that, how do you do that? Is the challenge I am having right now. Where to start, what do I deal with, what did I left out? I will tell you where I start. I will start with the Motion in mind that we have asked you goodly people on the other side to join with us and let us create a Tobago Transportation Agency. One that will see a marriage between three (3) main areas of transportation. Sea transportation, air transportation and ground transportation. I have heard all types of remarks, remarks like where in the world have you ever seen that? I say to you it is under the Ministry of Works and Transport. It is there.

We have seen throughout the world that as the world modernizes Leaders seek to have integrated control over areas that are similar. That is what they do.

I do not know what is so wrong, what is so bad about

creating a merger in so far as administration, in so far as regulation, in so far as operation, sea transportation, air transportation and ground transportation.

But I understand their problem.

Their problem is one where they are not into reading. They are not into that but in a lot of posing, big words, they like that quoting, quoting, quoting. I swear I was in some kind of Literature Class in some School Concert chairing some child; recite poem after poem, quotation after quotation. They talked about all kind of things the Marish and the Parish but not about air transportation, ground transportation and sea transportation.

What is so wrong? We have brought an idea. We said this is an idea and to show you how real we are all of us shared a different perspective on the idea. The thing is this, we want to create a real synergy with the Executive Council.

We the Minority would like to see a meeting of the minds so as to better serve the interest of Tobagonians.

What is so wrong with that?

We have said it. We want to build a better

Tobago, “Child by child; family by family; village by village”. What is so wrong? When we speak about a Transportation Agency for Tobago, we are speaking about the means of connecting people with places. hateful about that idea?

What is so

Why you are so opposed to it? Why are you

ridiculing the idea? I mean, I sat and I heard the Leader of PNM Business saying, “What is the purpose of the Transportation Agency”? Connecting people with places. That is all! People with places! What is the difficulty about that?

I heard my good friend from Buccoo saying, it is impossible, nonsensical. I said that is how they treated the first car that arrived in Tobago.

People ran out of the road, they said, “This is crazy it is going to

kill someone”. Some people are afraid of newness. The idea is a novel one,

and perhaps because it is coming from us, you reject it.

But the thing is

this, if you allow your mind to think for a while, (I know you do not often times do that) you would be able to catch the vision of the average Tobagonian on the street. They want to go to a place where they could purchase a ticket, perhaps for travel for the entire week. The amount of money on that ticket could allow them to perhaps travel on the bus, yes, or travel on the boat. It all depends on the amount of money that they have.

They are some persons who travels very often on the boat, almost every day, every other day, twice a week, three times a week. Some persons travel very often on the plane, may be five (5) days a week. What this Transportation Agency does is find a way in which all three (3) areas of transport, ground; sea; and air; it can be combined, so as to create ease of travel.

I know some of my Colleagues have visited China, but they have never visited London. But if they were to visit London, and they understand the London Tube Train or let us say the Transport System in London, their ground transport system, it is one where you can buy (Metro Card is for US) your Oyster Card. When you buy that card you can jump on the bus, you could jump on the train, underground; above ground, and if you buy for a week, it is much, much more cheaper than if you buy day by day.

We are

saying we want a Transportation Agency to come up with offerings like that for Tobagonians. If you are travelling by let us say the boat or the plane, they might be able to sell you a ticket that actually subsidize the prize because you are travelling very often. But no, you all cannot conceive ideas like that. Public transportation is designed for the masses to travel.

So when my friend from Buccoo is talking about the boats not making any money, he is right, but the price was a little bit exaggerated, or I should

say a little bit skewed. The reality is, the boat and the airport, airline and the boat, both of them run at about fifty percent (50%) loss. The facts are there.

But it is doing noble service, it is allowing people to travel. Why do you feel Government build underground train station? Why do you think that they build bridges across the sea etcetera? Who is paying for that? The people will pay for it not in one (1) month, not in one year, but a generation.

It is an ongoing thing. It may take them two hundred (200) years to pay for it. That is okay.

Here we have in Tobago, a little man is renting a house and he is renting that house for a one hundred and ninety-nine (199) years courtesy the Tobago House of Assembly under the PNM, one hundred and ninetynine (199) year lease. One man saddled with that. If you can lease a house for one hundred and ninety-nine (199) years, then why you cannot engaged in fixing the Transportation System? Perhaps, let us say that alright you may be fed-up with the boat, let us build a tunnel; let us build a bridge. These are the ideas of great minds. But it beyond some of my Colleagues, they only think, “Quick fix�. They took the Pariah Bullet, bring it from South, put it on the Atlantic Ocean and nearly kill people. Quick fixes! Then they said it is a small mishaps. Quick fix, they run and bought a boat, twenty million US dollars ($120m US), brand new boat they are boasting about. The boat cannot reach here yet. Before the boat reach, they have to go and put more toilets in the boat. They have to go and cover the boat, and they said they bought a brand new boat. Quick fixes. That is what they like. Instead of extending the highway to accommodate more transportation, they just roll pitch over it, more and more pitch, paving the highway. It is time for us to think seriously about the development of Tobago. If Tobago is to be a

successful business entity, we need more people on the island; we need about two hundred thousand (200,000) persons on the island, if we are to become a successful business entity.

Singapore is a little bigger than Tobago, maybe one and a half size the size of Tobago, and Singapore boast of five point five million (5.5) people living on the island in Singapore, and there is no town, there is no country.

All over Singapore is fully developed.

We boast and say that we are

developing a country. Developing what? To put two hundred (200) workers on Agriculture. That is development? They are boasting about that? I am worried about where we are going.

When we have the Chief Secretary his plan for solving transportation problem over this weekend is to go and practice discrimination. I say it practice discrimination! His Colleague, the Leader of the PNM business has the authority and the audacity to stand up and say, his boss negotiate that. I will never negotiate that. As a negotiator, I would never negotiate that.

That is high class discrimination. There must be equality of treatment for all persons who are on a stand-by ticket. That is why they have a list, equality of treatment.

I do not know if a few of my PNM friends who have tickets

in their hands, they are a little more equal with the rest of my poor friends who all they want is go home and mine deh baby, and see the child they have not seen for the week, and tell their husband good night. I do not know if their frolicking desire is more important that my maternal or paternal desire.

I am really, really concerned about the level of discrimination that they are trying to legalize and sanitize in this House. I rubbish the idea is downright evil and disrespectful to Tobagonians. I would never in my life negotiate something like that. But I understand that you are on your way out. I say to

you now, do not worry, that level of discrimination that has now become patent by you all will soon end. Tobagonians will not put up with it.

I sat with my Chief Secretary, I discuss with him Tobago Autonomy, I thought he was serious. I said, I salute you I will support you one hundred percent (100%) on the autonomy for Tobago. But I have tried him. I tried him today, and I recognized the Chief Secretary and his Colleagues are not serious about Tobago autonomy. They are not serious about that. They are serious about enslaving the minds of Tobagonians, selling them “pie in the sky� dream, that you are building an airport, courtesy the Government of Trinidad, you are building an airport that can facilitate one point three million (1.3m.) visitors a year. I do not know if an airport is like a building that can facilitate that amount. I think it is how fast the airplanes comes in. I do not know if you can set a goal and say that airport will facilitate one point three million (1.3m.). If that is the level of tourist that you want to bring in, say that, but in a real country when development is planned, it is planned with the future in mind. Not that we would build that and we will build a next one after. PNM styling of governance.

They build a Bailey bridge they are going to build one after, it remains there until they build a concrete one lane bridge in Lambeau. They so shame they did not open it at all. A concrete one lane bridge and I say where are we going with this type of governance, it is governance with bad mind.

[Crosstalk]

HON. J. JACK: You drove on the bridge?

MR. W. DUKE: I am asking you all now, if we are talking autonomy, if we are talking Tobago Autonomy I know they cannot take it, the truth Madam Presiding Officer, the truth hurts. [Crosstalk] HON. K. DES VIGNES: Be honest.

MR. W. DUKE:

I could hear my colleagues across there grumbling

because they do not get to talk after me. I have the last word today. Yes, I have the last word today, do not grumble. I am saying to you all on that side if we are talking about ‌ HON. CHIEF SECRETARY: Speak with integrity. What you are saying is going on Hansard ‌ MR. W. DUKE: Yes I am saying that, you break down a Bailey Bridge to build a one-way concrete bridge that is what you did it is there to see, it is there. Sixteen million dollars ($16m.) for a one-way concrete bridge. I tell you, I pray that no one crashes on that bridge, so Help Me God! I say to you all further, if we are talking Tobago Autonomy, if you are talking nationhood, if you are talking self-determination, if you are talking development that is reflective of the people in Tobago then you have to start talking, Tobago Transportation Agency.

I never heard the arguments at all when you all created the idea of Tobago Tourism Agency there was no talk about it. There was nothing what is the purpose of that, there was no discrimination as to where the funding

coming from, there was no mocking of the Tobago Tourism Agency “impossible”, “nonsensical” there was nothing like that. There was nothing like how does it operate, what is the framework? There was nothing like that, you all never even have the courtesy to bring it to the House.

But we understand that the building we had requested as the Minority Office, the building right next to Jerningham Avenue, that building that they said was too much for us is now the building they earmarked for the Tobago Tourism Agency in Tobago that is what they are doing. So it was too good for us that building but it is just good for the Tobago Tourism Agency.

They do not even have a Budget, Brother Farley.

The Tobago

Tourism Agency does not even have a Budget. I could tell you, I spoke with the Chairman and he was saddened by the fact that they created an Agency without a plan.

We are saying, if you have created an Agency without a

plan what is so new? What happen you learn your lesson already, did you learn your lesson already? We are simply saying, do not create one but let us make the move to have it discussed, let us make the move to see how best we can merge ground transport, air transport and sea transport. There is nothing to reject in that, it is something to embrace.

But you want to

operate as if you are magnanimous. Using my partner Duport Jack words, “as if you are magnanimous” you want to alter the Motion so it could look as if to say that you are supporting the Motion. All we are asking for Tobago is let us end the suffering today.

Let us say to Tobagonians today that “we will put our collective heads together and we will try to create a level of autonomy so as to ensure that the planes that come here would be leaving from here.” There would be hangers. We will want to ensure that when the new buses come and they did not even know that new buses came in Trinidad thank God I reveal that today because they do no communicate with anybody at all in Trinidad.

[Laughter] [Crosstalk] They have built themselves a PNM House without windows, lock themselves in.

[Laughter]

I, the Minority Leader today

reveal to you on that side that there are fifteen (15) new buses in Trinidad waiting for somebody to sip their coffee and then sign them.

I listened to the phone call when I went outside during the break I heard the Leader for Assembly Business making a phone call, “Is there any bus in Trinidad there for us?” [Laughter] I heard him on his phone, I heard you on the phone saying that. [Laughter] “Is there any bus in Trinidad for us?” You made the phone call, I heard you. You cannot deny that, I heard you. [Interruption] HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, I stand on a Point of Order. Jokes are jokes but it is ridiculous, the Minority Leader is going beyond the call imputing improper motives, making standing accusations and inappropriate statements.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, please be mindful of the statements that you are making, if you have the evidence you can, if not please do not make them.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, thank you for the caution but I want to make it absolutely clear that I have the evidence.

HON. J. JACK: The letter - you have the letter?

MR. W. DUKE: You all want jokes this evening or what? [Laughter] Let me give you some information. Port Authority in New Jersey and New York they collaborate services air, ground and sea - they collaborate it.

HON. J. JACK: They are not centralized.

MR. W. DUKE: All we are saying to you, let us create this Agency why you fighting against it? You all are simply not focused on Tobago, you are focussed elsewhere perhaps going to China, making trips abroad but not Tobago.

Had you all been focus on Tobago you all would have known that

there are fifteen (15) brand new buses in Trinidad waiting to come to Tobago. Now when we have the Agency as I said those buses will come to Tobago directly and they would be licenced by the Transport Agency. One stop shop! But no, we have to wait until somebody finish sip their coffee and sign the letter and say, “Alright carry it to Tobago now�, that is our problem.

Where is the Mariner in Tobago? Where is the place where we can dry dock boats in Tobago? We have to wait until somebody in Trinidad fix the Trinidad and Tobago Express to send it back up and they are already blaming those workers down there saying, sabotage, sabotage, sabotage. If that is the case you move the place where the boat is being fixed.

The problem is that Tobago has been denied essential services and the Transport Agency is seeking to bring the essential service of ground transport, air transport and sea transport under one roof and say, “We are going to integrate and regulate it.” Nothing is so wrong about that, it is a lofty idea.

I want to challenge today, my colleagues on the other side as I wrap up this debate to grow a heart and stop thinking about who win and who loose and recognize what we have brought here today is a Motion towards autonomy, a Motion towards self-determination. We have brought here today, a Motion towards realizing the dreams of the average Tobagonian in the street who has to wait on Trinidad to send up fifteen new buses or wait until Watson inform you that fifteen (15) buses are in Trinidad and then you act on it.

I have informed them also of the Boat – “the Ocean Flower” I informed them of that. I also informed them also that this Galleon Passage is not new. When will they get into knowing things?

If we have a

Transportation Agency all of that will be known to the people. They do not have to depend on me to give them the information. Please grow a heart for Tobago, grow a heart for its people, grow a heart to recognize we too are folks and we need to enjoy the right of freedom of movement.

Madam Presiding Officer, I thank you, and I submit that this Motion that is before the House, this Motion that is asking for it to be “Resolved that

this House write to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago as a matter of urgency indicating the need for a Tobago Transportation Agency with the responsibility for all transportation needs specific to Tobago that is ground transport, air transport and sea transport.” That this Motion that says, “Be It Further Resolved that the Tobago Transportation Agency be implemented immediately notwithstanding the proposed Tobago Bill as the Tobago Transportation sector is in dire straits,” be supported today by as is, by my colleagues on the other side.

I thank you.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Honourable Members, we have

before us some amendments that I will chose to treat with prior to putting the question.

So the first amendment is that under the heading “Be it Resolved that this House.” The amendment is to strike out “write to the Cabinet of Trinidad and Tobago as a matter of urgency indicating the need for a Tobago Transportation Agency with the responsibility for all transportation needs specific to Tobago, that is, ground transportation, air transportation and sea transportation.”

Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Any against, so you normally say

“nay” when you are against?

Instead of the deleted section, it is proposed to add:

That this House supports the Executive Council in appointing a technical working team with the mandate to complete a holistic assessment of the operations and management of the Trinidad and Tobago, Interisland Transportation Company Limited Caribbean Airlines Limited as well as the Public Transportation Service Corporation.

Question put and agreed to.

The second area is to amend: “AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED… …and this Section is to be deleted …that the Tobago Transportation Agency be implemented immediately notwithstanding the proposed Tobago Bill as the Tobago Transportation Sector is in dire straits.”

Question put and agreed to.

Instead, the following is recommended to be added: That this technical working team present the Executive Council with specific recommendations for the efficient and effectiveness management and operations of these essential services in the special interest of Tobagonians.

Question put and agreed to.

Request to Support Tobago Transportation Agency (Cont’d)

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Amended motion reads: “WHEREAS THE Tobago House of Assembly is a corporate body with direct responsibility for the formation of policy regarding the items in the 5th Schedule of the Tobago House of Assembly Act;

AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly is therefore indirectly responsible for operations of the Port Authority of Trinidad and Tobago, Caribbean Airlines Ltd and the Public Transport Service Corporation;

AND WHEREAS Tobagonians have been experiencing hardship, anxiety,

and

frustration

in

exercising

their

fundamental

constitutional right of freedom of movement via the public transportation system in Tobago, and the air-bridge and sea-bridge systems that exists between Trinidad and Tobago.

AND WHEREAS the Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago has set precedence by demonstrating an understanding of

the uniqueness of Tobago’s needs, and thereby approved the creation of a separate Tobago Tourism Agency (as opposed to the Tourism Development Company for both islands);

AND WHEREAS

the proposed Tobago Bill promises to give

Tobago greater autonomy over the transportation sectors of the island, if the Parliament of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago should enact such constitutional change;

BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the Executive Council in appointing a Technical Working team with the mandate to complete a holistic assessment of the operations and management of the Trinidad and Tobago Inter-island Transportation Company Limited; Caribbean Airlines Limited as well as the Public Transportation Service Corporation;

AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that this Technical Working team present the Executive Council with specific recommendations for the efficient and effective management and operation of these essential services in the special interest of Tobagonians�.

Amended motion put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Any abstaining?

Mr. Watson Duke and Mr. Farley Augustine abstained.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: The Motion is now carried. [Desk thumping] ADJOURNMENT

Motion made: That the House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed.

[Hon. K. Des Vignes]

Question put and agreed to.

House adjourned accordingly.

Adjourned at 6.25 p.m.