“迷你马拉松”，小汉斯晃点我们了吗？ (1) “北京迷你马拉松”始末
文 胡昉 / text by Hu Fang
1. 长跑
2. 听 · 说
在“马拉松”开始之前，我最关心的问题之一是汉斯 · 乌尔里
有关“访谈”在西方艺术史中的起源和演变，德国学者
希 · 奥布里斯特(Hans Ulrich Obrist，以下简称“小汉斯”)的体能状
Michael Diers在其名为《“无限对话”或访谈作为一种艺术形式
态，当他明确地告诉我他感觉很好的时候，我对马拉松有了信心。
(“Infinite Conversation” Or the Interview as an Art Form》)一文中有
我的朋友当中鲜有真正跑过马拉松的，即使跑过，我想要
过详述，该文是他为小汉斯《访谈录1》而撰写的前言，Michael
当事人把身体的那种极限感觉丝丝入扣地传达给别人，几乎也
Diers指出了小汉斯的访谈形成于一种非同寻常的、个人化的
是不可能的事情，但如果能了解在跑的过程中究竟跑者的心里
形态，有别于记者型的和学者型的访谈，他的访谈勿宁是从一
在想什么，恐怕也是一件很有意思的事情。
种百科全书式的哲学观发展而来，不仅使得对话成为极其生动
这个题为“电力城市——后奥林匹克北京迷你马拉松” ，
和富有成效的思想交流，也使得他的访谈更注重偶发和随机，
从2008年12月31号的下午2点开始，一直到2009年1月1号的4点结
而很少在计划中进行，也许正因为如此，我猜测小汉斯更敏感
束，在这十四个小时的过程中，从最初的起跑、过程中聚散无定
于“话语背后的沉默性”，在他写给艺术家汉斯·彼得·福尔德
的观众到曲终人散，本身就有着潮涨潮落般的节奏和无数倏忽即
曼(Hans Peter Feldmann)的电邮中，他引用了他曾访谈过的哲学
逝的思想浪花，而我们，所有参与马拉松的人们，不仅要随着这
家汉斯·格奥尔格·伽达默尔(Hans –Georg Gadamer)的一句话来表
些思想的长跑者渐行渐远，也幻想着让倏忽即逝的思想火花尽量
达他的思考：“伽达默尔跟我说过，访谈的一个很大的问题是
定格显影，不仅点燃各自前行的道路，也为后继者铺路。
无法转录沉默。”
如马拉松运动所昭示的，在这个过程中，我们不仅需要良 好的体能，也需要在心中有一个激励自己跑到最后的信念。
而我猜想中国禅对“不立文字”的标榜，在很大程度上是 对“有语”和“无语”、“可说的”和“不可说之物”之间关
思想在今天，也许更应该是一种长跑。
系的洞见，也和小汉斯关注的问题有关，它提醒我们：艺术如
如里尔克所言：“有何胜利可言，挺住就意味着一切。”
果不得不说，这种言说也必然是关于“如何去说”的摸索和如
”Mini Marathon”, Did Hans Ulrich Obrist fool us around?
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The Whole Picture of “Beijing Mini Marathon” 1. Long-Distance Running Before “Marathon” started, what I was most concerned about was Hans Ulrich Obrist’s(hereinafter referred to shortly as “Little Hans”) physical condition. But when he definitely told me that he was feeling well, I began confident in “Marathon”. Few of my friends had ever participated in “Marathon” in a strict sense. Even if some had, the runners can hardly convey the original extreme feeling of body with meticulous care, for it is almost an impossible thing. However, it is also interesting to know the psychological situation of the runner in the course of the event. Titled as “Electric Power City—Post-Olympic Beijing Mini Marathon”, it lasted from 2:00 p.m. 31st December 2008 to 4:00 a.m. 1st January 2009. This “Marathon” itself was embedded with the rhythm of up and down and endless flashing sparkles of pondering in the 14 hours from the starting line, the running course to the finishing line. While we, all the participants, were supposed to not only follow these pondering runners, but also imagine that those sparkles of pondering can be preserved as much as possible, so that it can not only lighten each other’s way, but also pave the way for successors. As the Marathon revealed, besides good physical condition, we also need faith to motivate and encourage ourselves to run towards the finishing line. Today, thought may be more regarded as a kind of long-distance running. Just as Rilke said: “ Who speaks of victory? Enduring is everything”. 2. Listening. Speaking As for the origin and evolvement of “ interview” in western art history, Michael Diers elaborated clearly in his article “ ‘Infinite Conversation’ Or the Interview as an Art Form”, the preface for Interview Record I by Little Hans, pointed out that Little Hans’s interview was masterminded from a unique and personal modality; different from journalistic and scholar interview, his interview was more developed from an encyclopedia-like philosophical view, which not only changed the dialogue into vivid and effective communication, but also made his interview more focused on abiogenesis and randomness. Maybe just because of the above, I guess Little Hans is more sensitive on “silence behind discourse”, in the email he wrote to the artist Hans Peter Feldmann, he quoted one sentence from interviewer, the philosopher Hans Georg Gadamer, to express his pondering: “Gadamer had told me, one big problem for interview lies in that it cannot transcribe silence.” While I guess Chinese Zen’s advocating “language independent”, to a large extent, serves as an insight towards the relationship between “words” and “silence”, “speakable” and “unspeakable” things; it relates to what Little Hans concerns and reminds us that on the one hand, if art had to be spoken out, such words aren’t necessarily about the exploration of “how to speak” and the experiment of how to develop the “unspeakable” into interpersonal understanding; on the another hand, Chinese classical philosophy and literary theory’s emphasis on “oral” materials (from Analects of Confucius to Shi
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Shuo Hsin Yu, to story-telling novels), also presents a profound understanding of the “necessity” and “dialogue” quality of “discourse” from Chinese perspective, that is, discourse faces directly the world in specific time and space and its essential value lies in its “absence”, which is the important approach to update thinking. The program “Interview Marathon” hosted by Little Hans is about more than catching the ‘absence” of discourse, because it adds rather intense time to the process of dialogue, so as to create a modality in realism for the dialogue—besides the tangible part, the intangible “field” also exists, thus it can mobilize consciousness to flow in the interaction between “speaking” and “listening”. In this arena, what is most treasurable not only refers to revealing the elaboration related to art activity, but also refers to the cultural influence at the subconscious level, personal image and oblivious history. When the exploration of these conscious activities achieve certain width and depth in a period, a kind of “Meridian” and “Acupoint” about culture begins to emerge much more in a whole, and the route of “ Marathon” starts to be clear. In Little Hans’ interview, the relationship between “listening” and “speaking” is not affiliation, but interdependence just like that between “Yin” and “Yang”. As a means of cultural criticism to approach the personal creation, Little Hans’ interview is equipped with not only the common problems—as his personal research subject, which is always associated with the immense knowledge about art history and experience from interviewing with numerous outstanding originators stored in his brain; but also very random problems, directly derived from the dialogue—these problems have no premonition, no prejudice, and all of them are “direct and live”, thus inspiring the interviewees’ “words” and exploring some subjects which are never mentioned before. While fundamentally, I think, this huge flow of “Listening” and “Speaking”, more confirms the relationship between “Mouth” and “Heart”. The processes of these dialogues not only provide the clues of personal inditing, but also unfolds according to the meaning of “behavior”; it surpasses the range of knowledge and moves forward to “revision”—talkers have intentions, and listeners have minds; we prove, educate and cultivate together, from this point, the “Listening” and “Speaking” of “Marathon” not only link to the interviewee and interviewer, but also link to all the participants, which constitute a public “flowing event”. 3. Theater From interviewer to interviewee, interviewer to audience, present audience to non-present people, “Marathon” at the very beginning emerges necessarily as a public event, which convokes individuals, shows overlapping of individual consciousness and creates theatre in a certain time and calls for personal expression. The behaviorism of “Marathon” itself makes it more like theater consisted of dialogues. What differentiates it is the performance of the “drama of thinking”(let us think about the “thinking poetics” tradition from Socrates, Zhuangzi, Diderot to Dostoevsky), over
沙龙
汉斯 . 尤而里奇 . 奥布里斯特 Hans ulrich Obrist (苏黎世人，1968年出生)，艺术策 展人。现居住在英国伦敦。在二十 世纪九十年代策划过一些非常著名 的展览(比如，“Do it”, “Cities on the Move”,等等)，自1993年以来是 Migrateurs al Musée d’Art Moderne de la Ville de巴黎展览计划的策展 人。他曾经出版过《采访》—— 一 个与当代文化领军人物的对话集。 他也曾出版过有关塞卓克·普莱斯和 杰勒德·里希特的书籍。他还是伦敦 蛇形画廊国际项目的联合总监。 (Zurich, 1968), art curator. He lives in London, United Kingdom. As well as creating some of the most important exhibitions during the 1990s (“Do it”, “Cities on the Move”, etc ...), he curated the Migrateurs al Musée d’Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris exhibition programme since 1993. He has published “Interviews”, a collection of conversations with dozens of leading exponents of modern-day culture. He has also published books on Cedric Price and Gerard Richter. He is co-director of international projects at the Serpentine Gallery in London.
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