Recognizing Excellence
Iam pleased to share that the 68th Annual General Meeting of the Madras Management Association is scheduled to take place on Friday, July 5th, 2024, at the MMA Management Center. During the AGM, we will be presenting the prestigious Award for Managerial Excellence. The recipients of this esteemed award will also share their remarkable journeys that led them to receive this coveted recognition during a seminar on the same day.
We are honored to have Mr T V Narendran, CEO & Managing Director, Tata Steel Ltd., and Mr Josh Foulger, President, ZETWERK, as our esteemed guests. They have kindly accepted our invitation to present the awards and address our members during the AGM. Their valuable insights and experiences are sure to inspire and motivate everyone participating in the AGM.
We eagerly look forward to your participation in the AGM, the awards function, and the dinner thereafter. It promises to be a remarkable event filled
with knowledge sharing, networking opportunities, and a celebration of the outstanding performance during the year 2023-24 by MMA. Let us come together as a community to recognize excellence and reinforce the spirit of growth and progress within MMA.
We look forward to your kind participation at the MMA AGM
Election 2024
We are now approaching the final phase of the General Election 2024. The counting of votes is scheduled to take place on June 4th. There has been a general decline in voter turnout across the states in 2024. Long-term voter apathy can undermine the democratic process itself. It is often said that people get the government they deserve when they exercise their right to vote. However, when they do not vote, they may end up with a government they do not deserve, leading to widespread disappointment. By the
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EDITORIAL
Gp Capt R Vijayakumar (Retd), VSM
Is electoral reform a bane or a boon? How should we rectify it if it is the former? How can we understand it if it is the latter?
time you read this editorial, the new government will be in place, and we wish them the best of luck in building a prosperous India.
I am also delighted to present in this issue an article on the discussion organized by MMA on the theme "Electoral Reforms: Bane or Boon?"
The guests of honour shared their perspectives on the theme which was thought provoking and kindled the thoughts of the participants to know more about the election process and the issues faced by Election Commission in a large democracy like India.
Is it all a bane or a boon? How should we rectify it if it is the former? How can we understand it if it is the latter? To learn more, read the article or watch the video.
Understanding and Preventing Accidents
Accidents, whether on the road due to rash and negligent driving or fires that tragically claim the lives of infants and young children, are often avoidable. These incidents highlight the inadequacy of safety arrangements in India and our habitual poor adherence to civic regulations. These tragic accidents should serve as a wake-up call to initiate an aggressive campaign against drunk driving and improve compliance with safety regulations across all establishments.
Let’s work together to eradicate the pervasive noncompliance with safety regulations in our society,
making it a safer and more vibrant place for everyone.
The New Real Estate: Navigating Modern Challenges
Our goal has always been to enhance our members’ experience by ensuring the safety and security of their investments. Today, consumers navigate a world of nuanced and sophisticated offerings that, while attractive, come with inherent risks. Buying a house or investing in properties is a once-in-a-lifetime exercise for many and typically consumes a significant portion of one’s savings. Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon to encounter issues related to properties after a seemingly legitimate purchase. Shockingly, data from the National Crime Records Bureau shows that more than 7,000 cases related to "Land Issues" were recorded in India in 2022 alone.
In light of this, and to serve the interests of large number of our members, MMA is organizing an evening seminar on the theme “Navigating Change: Emerging Trends in Real Estate Regulations and Their Impact on the Industry” on Monday, June 17, 2024, at the MMA Management Center. The seminar will focus on the structure of RERA, recent amendments, landmark judgments, legal complications, and their impact on developers and home buyers.
Don’t miss this opportunity to gain valuable insights into the issues and solutions to avoid being "penny-wise and pound-foolish." Join us to better understand how to navigate the modern challenges of real estate.
World Environment Day 2024
World Environment Day will be celebrated on June 5th, 2024, with this year's theme being “Land Restoration, Desertification, and Drought Resilience.” To
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mark this occasion, MMA will host a special online quiz on June 5th to empower our members with various facts about the environment. In addition, we will also organize a seminar on the theme “Pathways to Carbon Neutrality: Sustainable Transformation of Industries & MSMEs in Tamil Nadu” at 6:00 pm on June 6th, 2024, at the MMA Management Center.
Decarbonization has emerged as a critical tool in the fight against climate change and shows promise as a means of economic acceleration globally. The seminar will focus on the pivotal role of Micro, Small, and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) and larger industries in Tamil Nadu’s journey towards carbon neutrality. Recognizing the state’s ambitious environmental goals, the event will bring together senior industry leaders, policymakers, environmental experts, and MSME representatives to discuss innovative strategies, share success stories, and identify collaborative opportunities for sustainable industrial growth and achieving a carbon-neutral Tamil Nadu.
Join us in our endeavor for a transformative journey towards a carbon-neutral Tamil Nadu, ensuring a sustainable future for generations to come.
Holistic Mind Management: Strategies for Well‐being
We live in a world obsessed with busy-ness. The culture of success and ambition has pushed a narrative that relentless work, long hours, and constant striving are the sole paths to success. However, the culture of overwork is dangerous. Even when we clock out from the office, we continue to work at home. This takes a toll on our physical and mental health. The most important action is to avoid burnout by focusing not on the quantity of hours worked, but on the quality of effort. The worth of an individual should be defined not
by their busy-ness, but by the impact they have on themselves and others.
In this context, MMA is organizing a lecture series spread over next six months in association with Buddhi Clinic on the theme “Unleashing Inner Potential: Cultivating Mental Resilience for Well-Being,” commencing on June 26th, 2024, and continuing every month for the benefit of our members and a large number of viewers.
Please join us to understand how to lead a life of happiness and fulfilment while achieving your objectives.
In this issue, I am also delighted to present interesting articles on lives of a writer, cyber resilience for infrastructure and financial sectors in the context of the RBI’s initiative, the success story of a media CEO, and more. Please read on and get inspired.
Looking forward to seeing you at the MMA AGM!
As always we would be happy to hear your views, comments and suggestions.
Happy reading!
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There are some successful reforms initiated by ADR, but in many other areas we have failed.
Prof Trilochan Sastry
Former
Dean, Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore & Chairman of the Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR)
Why do we need electoral reforms and who will bring in these reforms? These are two questions that I will try to address from a citizen’s perspective. Coming to the operational details, overuse of money vitiates democracy. Those who spend crores and crores to win elections are not doing it for public service. Once the election is won, their first priority is to recover that investment. So there has to be some regulation against the overuse of money. There is an official limit of Rs 95 lakhs now for the MP constituency. But in reality, we have all kinds of figures from 2 crores to 20 crores.
President Ram Nath Kovind Committee Report on ‘One‐Nation‐One‐Vote’ may have added one more issue to be addressed while tackling electoral reforms. Then, there are the continuing questions about the current crop of poll reforms introduced by the Election Commission 30 years ago.
Fake News and Hate Speech
In voter enrolment, we keep on hearing problems all over the country about names being struck or names not being added and various tricks being used to prevent people from voting including strong arm tactics. In the last four or five years, there is a misuse of social media to spread fake news. The social media giants like WhatsApp say that India tops the world in hate speech. This goes up considerably in elections. India, according to various estimates, spent more money in the 2019 Lok Sabha elections than the US presidential elections. American economy is huge compared to India. This is not what the election commission spends but what the candidates and political parties spend. World over, the concern about capture of government by big money continues. We must bring transparency in election funding and limit the amount that an individual or a corporate can donate to a political party.
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The Problem of Migrant Workers
There is a peculiar Indian issue, which is the rise in members of parliament and MLAs with criminal cases and their engaging in identity-based politics, which the political leaders use during elections to divide the country. The number of migrant workers all over India has reached 30 to 45 crores. Most of them are not going back to vote. This is another phenomenon which is increasing election after election. We have not yet found a solution in dealing with this huge number. The number of migrant workers in India is more than the population of the US and practically every country in the world except China and Brazil.
Electoral Bonds: An ADR Appeal
Not only in India, but around the world, there is a need for transparency in funding. We need educated and engaged voters. Our Association for Democratic Reforms was set up for electoral reforms. Are the
reforms bane or boon? My answer: it is a boon. Most recently, electoral bonds was struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, based on our (ADR’s) petition for electoral reforms. Not only the Finance Act, but four subsidiary acts / amendments were struck down. The company's act amendment, the RBI amendment, the amendment to the representation of people's act and the amendment to the Income Tax Act were struck down. This is just an example of a citizen or civil society-initiated reform and it has been the most dramatic verdict in recent times.
Back in 2002 and 2003, we had filed a petition in the Supreme Court pleading that candidates must mandatorily declare their financial and criminal records. After a long story, the Supreme Court upheld it. Later, this was extended to the local bodies. Some people may not know that the Chief Election Commissioner presides over the elections of only the Lok Sabha, Rajya Sabha
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Our analysis shows that the income of repeat winners or repeat candidates goes up by several fold. We wanted to know how it is happening.
and the State Assemblies. The local body elections are held by a separate constitutional body called the state election board.
Tamilnadu Leads in a Wrong Race
A bill on electoral expenses was introduced and the election commission further asked candidates to file expenses every three days during the campaign. Bribing of voters, giving gifts and all sorts of things are taking place and there is a close competition between the southern states and perhaps Tamilnadu wins hands down in terms of the money being distributed to voters, which is against the Representation of People’s Act and it is a corrupt practice.
In 2008, we obtained a landmark ruling that the income tax returns of political parties should be made public. Each company has to have an internal auditor, an external auditor, follow the best accounting practices and make their balance sheets and audited statements publicly available. The political parties, on the other hand, were not even auditing their statements. Their accounts were in a mess. We asked the CIC that it should be made public.
Back to Square One
As a result of all our work, we saw that the criminalization of politics came down, but now we are back to square one or even worse. In most countries, the issue of conflict of interest has been flagged. But in
India, a Member of Parliament can be on various committees and even enact laws or vote on laws even where there is a conflict of interest.
There is a huge debate about foreign funding of NGOs. We won a case in the Delhi High Court claiming that both the Congress and the BJP were guilty of foreign funding. We promptly appealed in the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has not heard it for so many years. In June 2013, the central information commission declared that the six national parties are public authorities. The political parties refused to comply with that order. We filed a petition in the Supreme Court and it is still hanging fire.
The Supreme Court said in 2013, that sitting MPs and MLAs are barred from holding office on being convicted in a court of law. That means they have to immediately resign if they have been convicted. The Court also said that unless the conviction is set aside, they are barred from holding public office as per the representation of people's act.
The famous case of NOTA was laid down by the Supreme Court (None of the Above). The Supreme Court also empowered the election commission to disqualify candidates for false election expenditure statements. These are all strong steps. The Supreme Court asked candidates to declare sources of income of spouse and dependents. Our analysis shows that the income of repeat winners or repeat candidates goes up by several fold. We wanted to know how it is happening. But the Income Tax department refuses to take any action on investigating the sources of increase of income.
The Composition of EC
Just last year, we won a major case which the government has refused to honour. We had petitioned the Supreme Court that the election commissioners
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should be appointed by a multi-person body. We had given various suggestions. But the Supreme Court held that the Prime Minister, the Chief Justice of India, and the leader of the largest opposition party would appoint the election commissioners. But the government introduced a bill dropping the Chief Justice of India and in that place, putting up a Union Cabinet Minister. We've gone back to the court, but it has not yet come up for hearing. It is blatantly against the directions of the Supreme Court.
Though there are some successful reforms initiated by ADR, in many other areas we have failed. If you look at the Lok Sabha, over three elections held in 2009, 2014 and 2019, the percentage of people with serious criminal cases has gone up from 14% to 21% to 29%. Even in the Union Cabinet of India, the most powerful political body in the country, people with serious criminal cases in 2019 was 29%. Then how can we expect good governance? It's all dependent on one
charismatic leader or the other. We have failed to address this adequately. ADR and other organisations too have gone to the court but the court has refused to budge and give any directions on this.
We have a British type first-past-the-post parliamentary system with indirect election of CM and the Prime Minister. In the US, they have the presidential system. In Europe, they have the proportional representation system. In France, they have a system where they have to get at least 50% of the votes cast to be a people's representative.
In India, there's no lack of wisdom; there is no lack of study. Most eminent people have gone into the questions of what kind of system we need and they have given their recommendations. Most people agree that the current system is not working well and we may have to change it. I think it's only public pressure that may help us.
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The kind of proliferation of political parties is certainly not a healthy situation.
Mr T S Krishnamurthy Former Chief Election Commissioner of India
In my opinion, electoral reforms are absolutely necessary. Political parties never touch the need for electoral reforms—none of them, because they are quite happy with the status quo. In this parliamentary election, at least one party has expressed the need for simultaneous elections. There are plenty of reforms initiated by various organizations including the Election Commission and the Law Commission. I'll touch upon some important ones.
One of the things urgently required is the regulation of political parties by a separate law. In many countries, particularly Commonwealth countries, they have a separate law governing the functioning of the political
parties. We do not have the law. We have a lot of regulation of companies and partnerships. But we do not have the law to regulate the functioning of political parties. Almost 2000 political parties are registered but hardly 100 of them contest elections. The rest work as lobby centers and work for their own objectives, maybe for a particular section of the community or a particular economic group and so on. But we must question the need for so many political parties. The election commission brought about certain restrictions on the registration of political parties, but the Supreme Court struck it down saying that the right to form an association is a fundamental right. But even then, I feel there is a need for certain restrictions and regulations. The kind of proliferation of political parties is certainly not a healthy situation. You can form Associations, but should they be political parties and yet, not contest elections? The functioning of political parties themselves need to be regulated. For example, there are certain parties where the posts are almost monopolised
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Regarding the financial management of political parties, like companies, the parties should also be asked to disclose their accounts...
by certain persons. There is no rotation of posts; there is no restriction of period for which a post has to be held. There was an attempt made by one of the political parties to make a lifetime president to their particular party and the election commission banned that and put in certain restrictions. The Supreme Court upheld the decision of the election commission. The need for rotation of posts of the internal party organization needs to be addressed.
When the electoral bonds scheme was introduced, I took a public stand and said that it is not transparent and it is not desirable. The Supreme Court has now upheld that electoral bonds scheme is unconstitutional. One of the most important requirements of public governance is that political parties, whether they are in power or out of power, have to be transparent and they must have efficient governance. But unfortunately, in most of the political parties -not only in India, but in many Asian and African countries, there is no transparency at all.
Corporate & Political Nexus
The Institute of Democracy and Electoral Law Systems in Sweden, has made a study of the functioning of the political parties and they brought up a publication in Sweden. It's very unfortunate that there is a nexus between corporate and political parties in many countries, and the system of funding the election is certainly not an ideal one. I have suggested that there
should be a public funding of elections and political parties should not be allowed to spend money on elections. There are countries where political parties are not allowed to accept donations, for example in Canada. Only the members of the party and their family members can contribute to the funding of the elections. We can make corporates and individuals to contribute to a national election fund, which could be given 100% tax exemption. Over a period of time, the fund has to be built. With the consensus of all political parties, the allocation of funds could be done. I know there are practical difficulties but we have to overcome that, for the simple reason that political parties should be freed from the clutches of corporate donations. It applies to all political bodies. I'm not singling out any particular political party and it is desirable to do it quickly. Otherwise, public governance is bound to be affected in a substantial form.
Need for Accounting
Regarding the financial management of political parties, like companies, the parties should also be asked to disclose their accounts, if not once in a quarter, at least twice a year, so that the public know how the funds are received and how they are deployed. The Association for Democratic Reforms went to the Central Information Commission to make the political parties to disclose this information. In spite of the ruling of the CIC, none of the political parties has complied with this and the matter has been taken up to the judiciary. It is necessary that there should be a proper disclosure of accounts by the political parties. The candidates’ selection is an area where we need a lot of discussion. At the moment, it is being done on the basis of a committee in each political party. The main consideration is whether the person will be able to provide funds and whether he/she is a dominant person
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in that constituency. The dominant factor can be caste, religion, or language. The main reason for this kind of selection is the fact that we follow the first- past-thepost-system where a person can win, even by a difference of one vote. My suggestion is that we should insist on 50% plus but if there is any difficulty in implementing it, at least 33.33%of the votes polled must be the threshold for declaring a candidate as a winner. Otherwise, we will only encourage small parties to try and dominate. Sometimes, small parties get even cabinet positions, even though they have won a fraction of the votes polled. It is necessary for us to bring the change otherwise, it is not only a non-representative government, but also, it gives room for hatred, violence, inter party rivalry and so on. In fact, I would also go to the extent of saying that at least for the parliamentary elections, independents should not be allowed to contest. They should be brought under the discipline of a political party. Particularly in the state governments, the independents play a crucial role in unsettling a stable government.
Unholy Alliances
With the system of government that we have, the majority should be able to form the government. Different parties join together and form an alliance, but there is no coalition law, but only a coalition dharma. But even that is very often violated. The alliances need to be given a statutory shape. For example, if an alliance comes to power, it will be made very clear that a person leaving that alliance will be disqualified for a period of five years or three years. There is a strong necessity to regulate the formation of government through alliances.
We have the anti-defection law introduced in 1985. But then the speaker who is the arbiter is often a member of a ruling party. Unlike the western democracies, the speakers do not function in a neutral
manner. As a result of this, the anti-defection law has become totally ineffective. I suggest that if persons leave a particular party, they should not be allowed to hold any post in the government, even if that alliance comes to power. They should be disqualified to contest elections for five years.
Are Freebies Really Free?
Then the other important issue is providing freebies to the voters. The matter went up to the Supreme Court, which unfortunately, did not give a firm decision. All they said was, the election commission may draft a suitable guideline in the matter of providing freebies to the voters. My view is giving freebie is nothing but corruption. The parties must indicate in their manifesto how they will fund the freebies- if they will resort to additional taxation or if they will give up some of the existing schemes. We need to bring in changes in the model code of conduct also. The election commission should have some statutory power to disqualify candidates or even political parties, if there are serious violations of model code of conduct.
EVMs Take the Blame
The EVMs (electronic voting machines) cannot be misused or manipulated. Unfortunately, political parties who lose their elections find it easy to blame that the EVMs have been manipulated. We can seek improvements in the electronic voting system though. I can confidently say that there are enough safeguards in the machine and it cannot be misused and manipulated. When the parties win elections, they do not talk about the electronic voting machine. Regarding simultaneous elections, the legal and constitutional issues need to be sorted out. But as an administrator, I can say that simultaneous election is good for the country.
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We need people of integrity more than those having administrative qualities.
Dr M R Venkatesh Advocate, Supreme Court of India
Ithink in the last 30 years, if there is one institution, which has been a pride of India, it has been the Election Commission of India. We have to salute the silent warriors who have been carrying on this exercise. There are more than a million electoral booths.
Mr Krishnamurthy said that people who walk out of an alliance must be penalised. I think people who walk into an alliance must do so, at least three months prior to the election date. The tentative date must be intimated by the election commission. We must ask parties when they come out with election manifestos, the cost of the scheme, the impact on the exchequer and how they are going to fund it. This is a very
legitimate expectation that we must bring in. I cannot simply say that I'm going to give Rs 10,000 per head to everyone. There was a Federal Reserve chairman called Ben Bernanke. When he was asked if America were to meet with a recession, what he would do, he said he would take a helicopter and drop money and they would come out of recession. He was called Helicopter Ben. We are having several Helicopter Bens.
The larger issues like presidential form of election must be left to the constitutional experts. I do not know whether the constitution lends for a presidential form of election. I would also suggest that national elections to the Lok Sabha must be restricted to not more than 20 parties who have got at least 5% vote bank in the state elections. If you are going to contest, you must be of some stature. Otherwise, you must go through the graduation and you don't go straightaway. In theory, we don't write the final exam straightaway. We pass the inter and then come to the final stage. Likewise, if you are going to contest, nobody is going to stop you. But
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through your majority, at least get 5% or 3% of the votes, which can be a matter of debate. But the process has to start somewhere.
The three-member election commission now comprises only of IAS officers. I have nothing against IAS officers. But generally, it brings no variety to the table. In a sense, there can be management experts,
judges or social workers. I feel we need people of integrity more than having administrative qualities. (Mr Krishnamurthy clarified that the enormity of the election process requires able administrators for implementation). The voter apathy is a matter of concern. We also need to link voter ID with Aadhar to eliminate bogus voters. I see enormous value in this.
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MR DHRUBA MUKHERJEE CEO, ABP PVT LTD
When the author of the book DD Purkayastha (DDP) was a student of eighth standard, he failed in mathematics. Most of us, in a similar situation would have developed an aversion to the subject. But he doubled up on mathematics. He ensured that he studied so hard and topped his school in the board exam in mathematics two years down the line. In management jargon, we call it resilience to bounce back.
TENACITY AND PERSEVERANCE
He scored top grade in his Board exams and decided to pursue his academic dream in one of the best colleges in Calcutta. Armed with his grades, he comes to Calcutta for admission. And, Lo and behold!
This is the story of a boy from an obscure, remote town in India who reaches the highest rung of a glitzy media corporate house.
he finds that the admission season is over. The principal tells him that they cannot admit him, in spite of his good grades, because the admission season is over and classes have started. Most of us do in that situation would regret our bad luck and move on to find the next best college or opportunity that comes our way but not DDP. He sits day in and day out, outside the principal's office till one day the principal gives in and admits him. He became one of the toppers of his batch in that college. In management jargon, we call it perseverance to chase your dream. The author personifies that.
EVERY ADVERSITY IS AN OPPORTUNITY
DDP becomes a science topper and enrols for Applied Physics. He gets a call from one of the IITs and he was all set to pursue Electronics and Communication. But destiny hands him a bad dream. The main breadwinner of his family passes away and the
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responsibility falls upon him to take up a job and start earning to support his family. The only job that comes his way is the job of an accountant. Most of us would have blamed our fate and carried on with life with frustration but not DDP.
He works during the daytime and in parallel, enrols in the cost accountancy course. He clears the exam to become a cost and management accountant, so that he can do justice to his job. This is converting an adversity into an opportunity.
BUILDING CONSENSUS
DDP falls in love with a beautiful woman. He proposes to marry her. But there is a problem. The parents won't accept her because she's not from the same caste and community. The girl won't marry him, unless there is parental acceptance. He works with all stakeholders, gets their consent, and eventually marries the beautiful woman who still stays and stands by him today in his life. In management, we call it negotiation and building consensus. That's what he did.
Fireside chat between LV Navaneeth, CEO, The Hindu & DD Purkayastha
Navaneeth: At the age of 15 in 1962, you managed to get admission in St. Xavier's, though you got there late. What made a 15-year-old DDP think that perseverance would pay off?
I was just 14-and-a-half. I reached Calcutta and my dream was to study Physics in either Presidency College or St Xaviers' College. I heard so much about these two colleges from my father. But as I was staying in a distant and obscure town of Assam, I didn't know the timing and I arrived in Calcutta quite late. In my higher secondary exam, I scored very good marks. I stood first in Physics. When I went to Presidency, they said, "Sorry, you are late. We can offer you Honours in Chemistry." I wanted to study Physics. So, I refused Presidency College and went to Xavier’s. I still remember the VicePrincipal, a Jesuit Father who was six-and-a-half feet tall, thin and with a stiff upper lip. When I approached him, he said, "Sorry, you have come one month late, my
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boy. I can't admit you here." I protested, "Sir, but I have got good marks." He said, "But I can't help it."
I found a stool outside his room. For 10 days, I used to come and sit on that stool. Whenever, the father came out, I would ask him, "Are you taking me, Father?" "I'm sorry," was the answer. My perseverance then was extreme. I kept on coming, every day. I stayed in my uncle's place and I didn't know Calcutta at all. My mother's younger sister used to live in Calcutta. Every morning my duty was to have an early lunch there, go to the college, sit on the stool for the whole day till the college timings were over.
Finally, after ten days, the father broke his stance. He told me, "My boy. It's already one and a half months. You won't be able to keep pace with the other students. If I admit you, you will fail in the class." I saw that as an opportunity and challenged him, "If I'm not in the top 10 in my class, I will leave my studies and go back to Assam." He had no answer to that. I got admission and in the first semester exam that was held after one and a half months, I came second in a class of 40 students. The Jesuit father wrote a letter to my father in which he appreciated my obstinacy and perseverance. I completed the three-year course in Physics with first class Honours. Hardly 10 students got first class from the University of Calcutta.
Can you share a couple of eccentric geniuses you came across during your time at ABP?
CP Kuruvilla was one of them. A Keralite, he was one of the best news editors of India. He didn't believe in anything until it passed through his microscope. He was a very capable gentleman. But after eight o'clock in the evening, he would be drunk. He couldn't give up drinking. In those days, we used to have friendly cricket matches between editorial and the business side
Calcutta in the 60s was the most happening city in India. Every industry except pharma and textiles, was headquartered in Calcutta. It was one of the country's most sought after centers for education and health care. Later, I wanted to give back to the city.
employees. A lot of drinking would happen. In one of the matches, MJ Akbar was given out leg before wicket. Both MJ Akbar and the umpire were half-drunk. Akbar refused to leave the crease and argued with the umpire, "How dare you declare me out?" The umpire stood his ground and said, "Umpire is the king." Finally, we all intervened and cajoled MJ. Finally he came out of the ground angrily.
You have lot of love for Calcutta.
True. Calcutta in the 60s was the most happening city in India. Every industry except pharma and textiles, was headquartered in Calcutta. It was one of the country's most sought after centers for education and health care. Later, I wanted to give back to the city.
I'm a basically a finance and IT person. I worked in the IT sector in the 60s and 70s. I was working for DCM Data Products, which was the mother of IT in India. India started with DCM and HCL. I thought of doing something in the IT space. The year was 2002 and it was the height of CPM rule. I wanted to organise an IT conference in Calcutta. People called me mad. I was adamant that I had to do it. I believed that it was the
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I used to take the CPM government minister with me to many IT companies. Such was my relation with him. He would request the companies to set up in West Bengal.
only way by which we could bring in business to Calcutta. There were no IT companies operating in Calcutta then. Finally, Kiran Karnik, then President of NASSCOM agreed. We had the first Expo conference in Calcutta. ABP partnered with NASSCOM and it was a big success. Everything was pre-planned. It is now more than 22 years. Infocom (Business, Leadership and Technology event) is an ABP initiative and it is a big name now. It was the catalyst for the growth of IT in Bengal. There is an area in Salt Lake City in Calcutta, which is fully devoted to IT. There are now about 30,000 people working there and all the big IT companies are out there.
I used to take the CPM government minister with me to many IT companies. Such was my relation with him. He would request the companies to set up in West Bengal. Once I met the Cognizant Head in Bangalore and invited him to Bengal. He complained that ten years ago, they had been allotted a land in Calcutta but they could not get physical possession of the land even after a decade. I called the minister from there over phone and explained the issue. After two minutes, he called me back and confirmed that possession of the land would happen within a week and that they could mobilise their
team to Calcutta. This approach brought in the belief in IT companies. I'm very happy that I gave something to the IT industry in Calcutta, which may not be as big as in Bangalore or Hyderabad, but IT is a growing industry in Calcutta.
Last year, our CTO had gone to speak in Infocom and he said it's an outstanding event. That has inspired us to put together a technology event on our own, which we do this year. Are you still fully involved in Infocom?
No, I'm not involved. Mr Dhruba is handling it. It is still being run the same way. In every conference, we allocate one person to take care of every speaker, right from receiving them at the airport, escorting to the event and then leaving them back at the airport. That is the kind of personalised attention given to each speaker. Almost 1000 delegates attend from all over the country. There are nearly 100 speakers and it is spread over three days. All big names have addressed, including Dr Abdul Kalam.
You started in IT, transitioned to finance, became the CFO and also the CTO of the company. In 2007, you moved to the leadership role as a CEO and in 2018, you became the MD and CEO. How did you transform yourself as a leader while getting into each of these roles? What are some of the challenges you faced in the initial days of each single journey in your career at the ABP?
People say that leaders are born. I don't believe in that, because my life doesn't say so. I've made myself what I am. Something interesting happened and I don't remember the year. I was the Head of finance and IT.I was sitting in the corner room. I was deputed to a program arranged by the London School of Business and the venue was ISB, Hyderabad. It was a seven-day program. LSB people flew in from London. It was called 360-degree feedback program. All the attendees had to take a 360-degree feedback from their bosses,
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subordinates and peers. Based on that, the whole program was planned.
On the penultimate day, each person's envelope was opened and we were told clearly what people felt about us. There was a gentleman from Kirloskar. He was the Head of Production there. He thought he was very popular and a people friendly person. When the report came, the feedback was just the opposite. People in the factories said: 'Yes, he is a loving boss. He knows our family. He comes and spends hours with us, has his coffee with us. But the problem is that he doesn't convey our problems and pains to the higher management. Everything limited power, beyond which he can' never goes up.'
This was a huge 35-year-old boy. The g
60s. He sat down and started crying. "Oh my god! My whole life, I believed in what I am and thought people liked me. But people don't really like me," he lamented.
The next day, my assessment came. It said: "DDP is very strong in finance and IT. He has every number on his fingertips. He is a problem solver. We have never had any problem in finance. But problem with him is that people are scared of him. They don't dare to go to his room. Whatever you explain to him, he will give a reverse argument and you have to follow whatever he says. He doesn't mix with people and people don't like him."
That was a revelation for me. When I came back determined to change myself. t happen overnight. Gradually, I started around, talking to people. Slowly, I corrected anybody will say that DDP
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I am proud of achieving many things. One of the most difficult years of my life was the post‐Covid year.
is not a people's man; I am the most connected CEO in India and globally. Everybody in the industry knows me by first name.
That's how I changed myself. With that kind of a background, I couldn't have become a CEO. I realised what they said about me was right. It opened up my horizon. This change is very much required to become a CEO. Merely as a backroom finance guy, you can't run a company.
Can you rewind and take us to how you fell in love with a girl who became your wife?
I met a girl called Kamala. She would become my wife and the axis around which the whole family would hold itself together. Kamala was studying to graduate in literature, when I met her. It was love at first sight. I found in her a woman of strong will and confidence. She wrote poems, and often her letters to me were poems. We courted for six years before we decided to get married. Now the difficult part comes. Nothing came easy in my life. My parents didn't approve of my marrying a girl who was not from our community and geography. We came from Assam. She's a girl from
Calcutta. Kamala didn't agree to marry without my parents’ blessings. Slowly but persistently, I was able to cajole her into registered marriage. The social wedding could wait. It would be done only after my parents and community approved. In December 1971, we signed up as husband and wife at the marriage register’s office, without anyone's knowledge. Two of my friends signed as witnesses. One of them was Mr Altamas Kabir, who later became the Chief Justice of India. I don't know how many people would have had such a privilege, of a Chief Justice signing as a witness for their marriage!
If your father were around today, what feedback would he have given to you as a son and as a professional?
As a father, he would have said, "I'm proud of you. You have made me proud." As a professional, he will say, "Don't get swayed away by the limelight on you. The moment you do that, will your end begin. Be honest and stick to integrity." He was an honest man. He had a Master's in English. I will share an episode. He started his career in the United Bank of India as a branch manager in a place called Jorhat in Assam. A lot of tea gardens were there owned by Marwaris. One day, a Marwari owner came to him and asked him to approve his loan. My father refused because he found it beyond the norms of the bank. The loanee had a lot of connections. He met the chairman of the bank Mr B K Datta. One day, the Chairman flew down to Assam and asked father to approve the loan. Father said, "No Sir. This is beyond the norms of the bank. How can I do that?" "No, but you have to sign it," insisted Mr Datta. "Then you better sign, Sir. If the Chairman signs, then I'll sign," said dad. "I can't sign," said the Chairman. "Then I better resign," said dad and submitted his resignation letter. He would always stick to honesty or
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integrity. In companies, I find it is strange that in the assessment, there is a category called 'integrity' against which employees are graded. When I assumed leadership role, I removed this from the annual appraisal form. I believe that integrity is a given thing. You either have it or not. There is no need to grade it. People with lack of integrity should be weeded out.
Let me move on to some of the questions from the audience. Looking back on your career, what are you most proud of achieving? What legacy do you hope to leave behind in the media industry?
I am proud of achieving many things. One of the most difficult years of my life was the post-Covid year. I was supposed to retire in April 2020, but seeing covid happening, I told my boss that I couldn't leave the company in the cold and that I would extend my stay with them. My team was sitting without any revenue and sales. Nobody was buying newspapers but we had to pay everybody the salary. I took several decisions and implemented them. One was work from home completely. In fact, in September 2019, when people never knew about Covid or WFH, I asked my team why salespeople should come to office. Sales guys should be running in the market. When they come to office, they spend some time, chat and then go away. There's so much of time, AC and office space that get wasted. I decided that our five offices in Chennai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Pune and Hyderabad would start working from home. There was a lot of opposition from my colleagues. But finally, people were very much delighted to have implemented this much before Covid. We faced a lot of hiccups. We had IT problems. By the time Covid came, everything was ready. With the press of a button, I could start Work from Home across the organization. We closed all our offices across the country, except our main building in Calcutta. Everybody worked from
home. Even today, if you go to our huge Calcutta ABP office, you won't find more than 50 people working there. If somebody wants to come to office, they will have to take permission. There were two outcomes. One, people were very happy. Two, the efficiency didn't come down. Everything was getting better. We cut cost ruthlessly, without compromising on quality. Our total cost was reduced by one third. By the time I retired in April 2020, I got the balance sheet to be very slim and trim. The breakeven point came down a lot. I left ABP as a happy CEO. I think this was my biggest challenge and also the biggest success.
Are there any mentors or influencers who had significant impact on your journey?
My biggest mentor was my father. He instilled in me the faith in Almighty. When he expired in ‘73, it was really traumatic for me. During my professional days, we had a very strong board and I learnt a lot from them.
Dr. Ashok Ganguly, ex-Unilever chairman was our chairman. Gopalakrishnan of Tatas and Bimal Jalan, exRBI governor were in our board. They individually mentored me and corrected me if I made a mistake. Even today, I'm learning from young colleagues.
What is the difference in managing a media business from managing other industries?
There is no difference between any other industry and media. The business rule is same.
What advice would you give to aspiring young professional CEOs of tomorrow?
Three things are very important: vision, determination and resilience. You must set a very high target which is achievable and start believing in that.
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Quantum computing will disrupt the entire topology as we know today.
HANS RAJ VERMA, IAS
ADDITIONAL
CHIEF SECRETARY, CHAIRMAN AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, TAMILNADU INDUSTRIAL INVESTMENT CORPORATION LTD (TIIC)
Istand before you not as a bureaucrat but as a practitioner of cybersecurity. I have been the IT Secretary for Tamil Nadu government. I am a certified National Cybersecurity Scholar (NCSS) from ISAC. Currently I head the Tamil Nadu Industrial Investment Corporation (TIIC), where we are building cyber security as a key foundation of operational strategy. I will speak about strategy and my fellow
As digital transformation accelerates across infrastructure and financial sector, the imperative to bolster cyber resilience has never been more critical.
panelists will speak about the operational details.
We live in a VUCA world. We are facing constant volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. The three great risks which we as individuals, society, organizations and nations face are sustainability; cybersecurity and geopolitical risks. Let me discuss about cyber security and cyber resilience for critical infrastructure.
Coming to strategy, let me quote Sun Tzu, the famous Chinese General. He says there's a clear distinction between strategy and tactics. Tactics is short term and ad hoc while strategy is long term vision. He says, if you have only strategy and no tactics, it's only a slow route to victory. But if you do not have a strategy and have only tactics, it's a sure route to defeat. More often than not, as organizations, we resort to tactics for cybersecurity. What we need is strategy. The US Government's National Cybersecurity document is not called cybersecurity policy. It's called cyber security strategy. It's got five pillars and 25 strategic objectives.
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THE FIVE PILLARS OF CYBER SECURITY
The five pillars are: building and protecting cyber resilience for the critical infrastructure; getting the market forces to assist the government agencies in cybersecurity; building a resilient future; forging alliances; and thwarting the state actors or the threats, which threaten the critical infrastructure of a nation. What is of interest to us today is the critical infrastructure. To me, the top five critical infrastructure sectors are energy, telecom, financial systems, healthcare, and manufacturing. Today, security of critical infrastructure is an integral part of national security.
We are all cyber warriors who need to be sensitised and made aware of our respective roles in our collective endeavour of national cyber resilience. Remember, it is humans who will decide whether an individual, society, organisation or nation is resilient on the cyber front.
Pareto's 80/20 law applies here. While the role of
technology is going to be 20%, the human dimension is 80%. Unless we understand the human dimension, we will go wrong. Technology is not the panacea or the silver bullet. Investing only on technology, without factoring in the human dimension is a sure recipe for failure.
LESSONS FROM HISTORY
History teaches us a lot of lessons. Various historical incidents have occurred on account of human failures. Let's start with the Battle of Troy and the famous Trojan horse. Prince Paris eloped with Helen of Troy. The Greeks came to Troy to take her back but they could not breach the fortress of Troy. A very wily General of the Greeks—Odysseus built the Trojan horse and left it as a gift at the gates of Troy. It was the collective failure of the entire Troy that they thought the wooden horse was a gift and took it inside the city of Troy. At night, Odysseus and a team of soldiers came out and conquered Troy. It is a classic example of human failure.
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Second is the Great Wall of China. The great Mongol Emperor Genghis Khan mentioned that the wall is a static and it meant nothing to him. ‘It is only as strong as the people manning the wall.’ If we take this analogy, the wall is your technology. But the people manning the wall are the key in securing your fortress or empire.
In 1453, Constantinople was captured by the Ottoman Turks. They tried their best several times to conquer this imperial fortress which is called Istanbul today. They were able to do it only because of someone’s complacency, carelessness or an insider job. They left one of the gates open and Turks entered that. The rest is history. Again, the failure had to do with the human dimension.
NEED FOR COMPARTMENTALISATION
We have all heard of the sinking of Titanic. Titanic was said to be an unsinkable ship, yet it sank in its maiden voyage in 1911. There were warnings that icebergs were there. But they locked the binoculars and could not find the key to lookout for icebergs. That was mistake number one. Two, when the iceberg came ahead, had the Titanic hit it head on, nothing would have happened. The mistake they did was they turned the ship and the steep edges of the iceberg cut each of the compartments.
From cybersecurity point, any system must have compartmentalisation. If there is an attack, one compartment can go down and you can recover. The whole system will not go down. Titanic was the biggest tragedy at sea in civil shipping. Again, it was because of human elements.
Our cybersecurity systems should maximize the strength of human beings and at the same time, minimise vulnerabilities. There's always a chance of a password failure. You need to have checks and
Our
cybersecurity systems should maximize the strength of human beings and at the same time, minimise vulnerabilities.
balances. Take the example of Barings Bank, the oldest commercial bank of Britain. One single currency trader Nick Leeson in 1995 sank it by doing unauthorised currency trades and he caused a loss of over 800 million British pounds. The bank was eventually sold for one pound.
RECENT CYBER ATTACKS
Let’s move to recent attacks in the history of cybersecurity. The SolarWinds Orion attack is a documented case of cybersecurity breach. SolarWinds used to supply networking tools and software to major companies in the world. By late 2019, they released an update called ‘Sunburst’ which was intruded and deliberately infected by a malicious malware. When the update went to the platforms supplied by SolarWinds in 2020, many critical organizations and multiple government agencies were infected and this was one of the major disasters of cybersecurity.
In 2014, before Russia attacked and annexed Crimea, there was a huge attack on the telecom infrastructure of Ukraine. Before an enemy attacks a nation today, they cripple the critical infrastructure and then move in. The battles to secure the nation's border are going to be fought both on the physical border of the nation as well as on the cyber frontier. In 2016, there was a malware called Petya that targeted Microsoft Windows systems. In 2017, a variant of Petya called as NotPetya ransomware, attacked Ukraine’s banking and
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financial system. Through that, it spread to various organizations and to Maersk Shipping Line as one of their computers got infected. Through that, the entire logistics of Maersk Shipping was impacted. The NotPetya ransomware attack is a documented and deadly attack in the history of cyber-attacks, with losses running to about $10 billion plus.
BOARDS HAVE A BIG ROLE
Cyber security is not static. It is constantly evolving. It's a process and not a product. It is no longer a domain of the CTO or the CSO. It is in the domain of the boards now and a mainstream agenda of the boards of companies. They have to set the agenda and set up committees for cybersecurity supervision and ensure that their organisations are resilient. Most incidents of
Cyber-attacks no longer happen on a small scale. The latest attack- the Colonial Pipeline attack in 2021, led to a national emergency declaration by President Joe Biden in the US. Reusing of passwords is one of the very common human fallacies. One of the employees reused the password and as a result, 5000 kilometers of pipeline supplying gasoline for the airplanes and petrol for vehicles were subject to ransomware attack and they had to pay money to get the data back. In all these, we see the human elements. Any system is only as strong as its weakest link and the weakest link is dynamic.
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cybersecurity are not reported because of the fear of reputational loss.
Any organization that suffers a cybersecurity hit has got three challenges to face: regulatory risk; financial loss; and loss of reputation. Case studies show that any organization hit by cybersecurity lose business. Today's cyber resilience for critical infrastructure is as much as warfare and military strategies about the territory gains.
As IT Secretary, I have dealt with the entire gamut of the operational command. In India, we have the NSA —the National Security Adviser. Under him, we have the National Cybersecurity Coordinator. We have the CERT: Computer Emergency Response Team, the regulator that's supposed to step in first. We have the C-DAC; we have the The National Critical Information Infrastructure Protection Centre (NCIIPC); and we have the SETS: Society for Electronic Transactions and Security. I was on the Governing Council of SETS which is based in Taramani in Chennai. SETS focusses on the next domain of quantum computing and cryptology.
FOCUS ON ENERGY AND MANUFACTURING SECTORS
Some of the visions of the US Policy Studies paper are today relevant for India. First is the energy infrastructure. It says we will secure our clean energy future. Today with green energy coming in a very big way, there is distributed distribution of energy fronts. Our grid frequency has to operate between 49.5 Hertz to 50.5 Hertz. If any cyber attack happens on the grid, our trains will stop and everything will come down. We must have resilient systems in the energy sector.
Second is manufacturing. We talk of Industry 4.0 and 5.0. India is poised to be the hub for advanced manufacturing and a key link in the global supply
chains. With the new sensors (IoTs) coming into play, everything is linked to the internet. We have PLCs. In 2010, Siemens PLCs which were operating the centrifuges of Iranian nuclear power reactors went out of control with a virus and entire system collapsed. This was a seminal moment.
Indian manufacturing is part of the global supply chains. We supply auto components and a number of products to the world chain. If the IoT or PLC is compromised for an auto company and say, the paint thickness changes or the dimension of a component changes, imagine the impact it will have on the reputation of our nation and our supply chains. So, securing manufacturing is extremely important as part of critical infrastructure protection.
NEED FOR QUANTUM COMPUTING
We need to invest in quantum computing. The base of today's cybersecurity is resilience and cryptology. Quantum computing will disrupt the entire topology as we know today. That is why all the nations are investing very heavily in quantum computing. We need to build a very resilient cyber workforce. Cybersecurity is one domain that will open up opportunities for our youth. We have a huge shortage of skilled cybersecurity professionals. All stakeholders must forge collective partnerships for creating cybersecurity workforce. We need to build partnerships across all verticals, all domains and all experts.
CYBERSECURITY AT ORGANISATIONAL LEVEL
At the organization level, few principles must be adhered to. First, look at the assets that you want to secure. Why do you want to secure them and what is the technology that you're going to use for securing them? Will it create any further complications? Technology is not the panacea.
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Finally, you must have a trade-off. Do not be penny wise and pound foolish in spending on cybersecurity. This is your most critical component for sustainability and success in the future. Spend wisely, with the guidance of your boards. Once you have the systems in place, organisations must follow some principles. First, you must know the ecosystem. That is where partnerships among stakeholders is extremely important. Often, organisations do not share if they've been attacked. Unless you share this information, how will you find solutions and countermeasures? If you know yourself and not the attacker, then for every victory, there's one loss. And if you don't know your own self, and the attacker, it is a sure defeat. From that strategy, all your employees must know the attackers.
In the physical warfare, the ratio of attackers to defenders is always 1: 3. For every one defender, there'll be three attackers. This is a known fact visible to the naked eye. But today we are grossly outnumbered. Some say that today, for every defender of a system, there are 30 attackers. If critical institutions of health care are hacked, sensitive data of leadership will be leaked out. It's a big national threat. Today, ransomware as a service and criminals as a service have become rampant. We need to be educated. It cannot be business as usual. Every employee has to be sensitised. You need to have depth in defence.
You must have multiple options and do not rely on a single option for cybersecurity defence. You need to have compartmentalisation. If one system comes down, the other systems will be able to be resilient and recover back. You need to understand the psychology of motivation of your employees. You need to practice zero trust of humans or devices. That is extremely important. You must have multi factor authentication. Organizations need to start teaching every employee
about cyber security. They say there are only two kinds of organizations: one who have been hacked, and one who don't know they've been hacked. Everything connected on internet can be hacked. It means all organizations are vulnerable to cyber-attacks. In this VUCA world, cybersecurity is a mandate for all of us. We need to be proactive, not reactive. We need to collectively share knowledge and wisdom and partner with all the key stakeholders. Let's collectively make India cybersecure.
The least effort is spent on cybersecurity awareness.
MR R VITTAL RAJ FOUNDER PARTNER, KUMAR & RAJ CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS
We have always heard about somebody getting hacked. Nowadays, people get a deep fake attack, where a fake looking like your friend appears on WhatsApp video call and asks for money.
In the epic Ramayana, the entire story would have stopped had Maricha, the fake golden deer, not come into the picture. Sita wanted that golden deer, which was absolutely attractive. Rama went behind the deer and Lakshman went in search of Rama, while advising Sita to stay safe in her place and not to cross the line drawn by him—the Lakshman Rekha. But Sita crossed it and fell into Ravan’s trap. A single security
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The consciousness of recognizing a risk becomes an important part of strategy in the organization.
vulnerability led to the entire Ramayana.
Organizations don't spend money on cybersecurity. They say, they’ll handle the threat, if it comes. When a colleague or another company gets hacked, we think it won’t happen to us, because we are smart. We think of an antivirus software as worthless expenditure. But when we get hacked, we lose all our money.
The least effort is spent on cybersecurity awareness. You can put up any number of devices but please understand that the devices need to be configured. The consciousness of recognizing a risk becomes an important part of strategy in the organization. Risk assessment and management is one of the key functions in GRC: Governance, Risk, Compliance & Control. For a hacker, one complacent employee is enough. One port which is wrongly configured on your firewall is enough.
If we do not invest efforts and money in these processes, then it leads to serious problems. That's exactly where we see the opportunities today. Our state is one of the most intellectually advanced states. We hold the key to the cybersecurity supply for the world. In the last couple of years, a huge demand has been emerging for cybersecurity professionals. We don't have people who understand not just technology but the cybercrime scenario. We are going into lot of automation. The GST collections are soaring and UPI sees huge transactions. The pandemic proved that we need not be literate but digital literacy is enough.
We can use AI and ML to find out the anomalies on a daily basis.
SAGAR SRIVASTAVA SCIENTIST AND JOINT DIRECTOR‐ CDAC CHENNAI
The cyber-attacks and threats nowadays are very sophisticated and have become part of a wellorganized structure. The hackers don't do it haphazardly. They execute well-planned attacks and users are not aware of them.
Usually, we check the system logs, only when the system is down. We must check the logs on a daily basis, so that we can pick up red flags, if any, in time. We must be prepared for attacks, respond properly and recover quickly, if there is an attack. There are many technologies which can detect suspicious activities. We can use blockchain to secure some of our financial transactions. We can use AI and ML to find out the anomalies on a daily basis. Apart from that, the end users have to be sensitized on a large scale. We have regulatory compliances in the financial sector but do we comply 100%? The answer is ‘no.’
What should we do? One, sensitive information should not be accessible to the common citizens. For example, defence sector uses intranet through leased lines. They use internet only for ticket bookings. Two, we must have backup systems. Post-Snowden, it has
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been clearly revealed that the usage of proprietary systems is not advisable. C-DAC has come up with its own open-source solutions, where you are aware of the vulnerabilities. It was revealed that most of the Cisco Systems, network and routers were passing the information through the border sharing countries. Proprietary systems operate like a black box.
We are only concerned and interested that our website should get VAPT (Vulnerability Assessment and Penetration Testing) cleared. But despite being VAPT cleared, you can’t be sure that your system will not be prone to a cyber-attack. We must make a good, resilient system than depending on some third-party auditor to come and tell us about the vulnerabilities.
Q&A
What strategies have been adopted to mitigate cyber risks in TIIC?
Hans Raj Varma: In TIIC, we have a huge quantum of data of our customers like land records, their CIBIL scores, property statements, bank statements, etc. As trustees of these big data, it is incumbent upon us to secure these data. The biggest challenge we're going to face is ensuring that our IT systems do not fall victim to ransomware attack. We have strategies for securing and controlling the data. Regarding the other big ticket investment projects in Tamil Nadu, the respective institutions, investors and companies have their own respective cybersecurity systems.
What cutting edge technologies would hold promise for enhancing cyber resilience within infrastructure and financial sectors?
Sagar: We use AI and ML to find out the anomalies. You can educate your code through machine learning to find out the anomalies rather than humans checking the logs on a live basis. It is better to have an alert system. C‐DAC is a very renowned name for conducting computer‐based examination system in the country. The system will give an alert to the Director of the examination center if anomalous or suspicious activity is detected.
How can organizations address the human factor in cyber resilience?
Hans Raj Varma: Tap all the government agencies for training programs. All have got huge resources with them and they want to share them with you. For example, ISAC is going to start their
core program in partnership with IIT at Gandhinagar in July. You will come out of the program as a certified National Cybersecurity Scholar.
Are we guiding the banks to improve their cybersecurity resilience?
Vittal Raj: I had the privilege of working with RBI on the study committee on cybersecurity. There are some brilliant minds and very dedicated people who are at the RBI. If we compare the number of attacks with the volume of our economy and the banking system, it is miniscule. We are safe because of the silent work that organizations like RBI do. RBI penalises many of the banks for not putting their security in shape. They are not mincing words.
The Bharat Operating System was supposed to be the competition to Windows? How does C-DAC view this system?
Sagar: Let me clarify that for C‐DAC, Windows is a competitor. Our competition is systems similar to Linux based operating system. C‐DAC is a nonprofit organization. The Bharat Operating System is available for the normal usage of general public.
What are the cybersecurity training and awareness programs available for stock exchange staff and traders?
Vittal Raj: SEBI has issued very specific circulars on cybersecurity measures for every class of intermediaries. It also requires an audit. Also, NISM, the National Institute of Securities Management is a very important body set up under the auspices of SEBI. NISM completely trains people on various aspects of not just cybersecurity but technology and securities market.
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Ifirst met Mr. Muthiah 47 years ago. He was my teacher first, later he became a friend and was a constant source of inspiration. One of the last events he attended was the launch of my novel, Kipling’s Daughter. He was ill and too weak to climb up to the dais. He spoke sitting in a chair below. He said, “I'm not too well, but how can I refuse one of my favorite students?” This is something which I will remember till the end of my days. I remember his love and determination to come there despite his ill health.
MR MADRAS
There was also a time when I began to write a book on Madras. Whenever I lost my momentum and focused on my other literary works, like a divine reminder, there would be a little nudge from Mr. Muthiah, either in his columns, or he'd bring up the topic when we met. But I got caught up in other projects and so many other people began to write about Madras. I gave up this project altogether.
I was one of the first to call him Mr Madras in one
MMA, Colours of Glory and KAS organised The S.Muthiah Memorial Lecture, which centered on a dis‐cussion on the book, ‘Lives of a Writer: Exploring Beyond the Book’ authored by Shreekumar Varma, Writer, Poet & Journalist. Capt D P Ramachandran (Retd), Founder & Chairman, Colours of Glory Foundation, led the session held at MMA Management Center on 13th April 2024.
of my columns. He was a mentor in so many ways, and a Master of Madras. I'm truly honored to be a part of Mr S Muthiah Memorial Event.
Mr. Muthiah began as a sign of the times for me. During the last year of my MA in Literature, I joined the journalism course at Bhavans School of Journalism. Those days, I had a diary in which I took down notes. I also used to draw the faces of our lecturers. Some years ago, I saw the diary lying around, and there was Mr. Muthiah’s face, large and smiling, with a much younger face that I knew in 1977. Mr. Muthiah took our editing class.
The next year I joined the Madras Law College, and there was a big strike that year against the introduction of the semester system. In desperation, I applied to the Indian Express and got a job. There I was in Bombay, in Express Towers at Nariman Point, as a journalist instead of a lawyer. After the Express, I also worked for a film industry paper run by the Producers’ Association that we revamped and renamed Cinema Today.
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Journalism helps to lay a foundation, if you want to become a writer. You work on stories; you interview people and understand their persona.
POWEROFTHEMOMENT
Things have happened to me, and they always made sense later on. Even when they didn't make sense, I felt really good. There are basically two kinds of people, the ones who think they are guided and controlled by some higher force, which we call fate, or fortune, or God, and those who believe that life is a match played between us and the world, and that we can create our own moments and pathways. I belong to a subcategory that believes in the power of the moment where the past shapes us, and thoughts about the future guide us. But
we still live in the moment. Sometimes I'm rational and full of myself. Sometimes I feel protected by God or the universe, if there is indeed a powerful force that oversees us. We are still not mere toys of God, but rather instruments of God or even versions of God. The universe has a pattern, a rhythm, and a music that can guide you if you recognize it, and make it a part of your own life. Which is why when I write a short story or a play or a novel, I may be God or the creator. But I give my characters enough room to maneuver and decide and manage their own stories. The plot is loose enough; the characters are free enough until the point where I reach the end and finish the book. I say this because there have been many instances where my characters saw other parts than what I had plotted for them, and took the story through completely different routes, all on their own.
After coming back to Madras from Bombay, I started the printing press along with two partners who were older than my father; and then a city magazine,
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along with my wife Geeta. Journalism helps to lay a foundation, if you want to become a writer. You work on stories; you interview people and understand their persona. You bring strands of information and opinion together. Then you plot your story, which is what journalism is all about. So, from that time onwards, there was this desire in me to write a novel.
During my school days, I had already started a magazine. On a foolscap paper, I wrote with a pen, drew pictures and traced out photos. Close relatives were forced to read it, even if they didn't want to buy it.
During my early college days, I had already written a novel in three notebooks with a fountain pen. It was set in Egypt and it was a murder mystery. I wanted someone to read it but no one would. I went to my grandmother and read it out to her. She was in bed, and she couldn't leave even if she wanted to. Day after day, chapter after chapter, I sat and read out the whole novel to her. At the end, she said she liked it. Of course, I believed her wholeheartedly. I don't know where that novel is now and where those three notebooks are.
A NOVEL AND A THEFT
In the mid-90s, I started writing my new novel. There was a small room behind our house and I'd sit at a computer typing. I wasn't very dedicated, though. I only wrote when it was convenient. One night, a thief broke in and made off with my music system and my computer. It was a terrible shock. The computer had 25% of my novel. When people consoled me, I said, “That's okay. He's just a fan who wanted to be the first to read my novel.” But I was deeply hurt. That incident perked me up and I started writing in earnest. I had some of my handwritten notes. I shut myself up in my room and wrote and wrote. We got a watchman for the house to discourage more fans like that. But this wasn't my first published work. I had a dear friend who
My first children’s book came out in the late 90s and
my first novel was launched in 2000. I had already begun my innings as a playwright in 1986.
worked at Macmillan. To celebrate the 50th year of Independence, they were bringing out small volumes meant for children on freedom fighters. I decided to write on a Pazhassi Raja. My wife's aunt was married into the Pazhassi royal family. The Pazhassi royal family member arranged an interview with his uncle, the patriarch of the family.
LAMENT OF MOHINI
Seeing my first published work triggered my enthusiasm and I completed my first novel, Lament of Mohini. They say your first novel generally has a lot of yourself in it. ‘Lament of Mohini’ was based on a royal family and a Namboodiri family. The protagonist worked in a printing press like me. There are so many things you hear about as children. It includes legends and family tales and sheer gossip. My father lived in a joint family in Kilimanoor, the same family where Raja Ravi Varma was born. It was a storehouse of stories— some poignant, some funny; many of them found a place in my novel.
But I was in for a few surprises. I had based my description of a Namboodiri house and household, based on a book written by my wife Geeta’s uncle. When I visited a similar house for the first time after the book was published, the descriptions were startlingly similar. You cannot enter a Namboodiri house. They say that if a woman goes there as one who's married, she is brought back after she's dead. Even if she goes to visit
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My wife used to tell me that my personality changed in the thick of my writing. If it was a dark story, then God bless, which is probably why there's so much humour in my work...
the temple or the pond to have a bath, she's veiled in a cloth and there's an umbrella which covers her. She goes unseen by anybody. But in my novel, a performance happens inside the Namboodiri’s house and among the invitees is the protagonist, a royal family member. He gets a headache. He goes out and has a nap in one of the outhouses there. Then he comes back to the house and it has started raining by then.
When the rain becomes very heavy, he runs into a bathhouse, where he sees a girl swimming. That's how they first meet and nobody else knows. After the book was published, I realized that there was a true story that happened exactly like how it happened in my novel. I believe in serendipity, but this was weird. The book was Longlisted for the Crossword Book Award.
A GOA TRIP LEADS TO MARIA’S ROOM
My wife used to tell me that my personality changed in the thick of my writing. If it was a dark story, then God bless, which is probably why there's so much humour in my work that provides the much-needed relief from the tension in the work. After this book, we went to Goa to relax for a while. There we visited the Mahalasa temple. They told us that the deity was also known as Mohini. Since my novel was called Lament of Mohini, I promised the priests that I would come again with a copy of the book as an offering. When we visited next, I had my novel with me. When we reached Goa, it
was raining heavily, completely in contrast to the sunny Goa that we expected.
A cab from the station couldn't make it because the roads were flooded. We needed a larger vehicle. The driver flagged down an SUV. We got in with our luggage. I realized that there was another couple in the car. They were seated behind almost unseen and were very silent. The driver dropped them somewhere along the way. They got out silent and brooding. It was a trigger. It gave birth to a new idea. Forced to spend a lot of time in our room because of the rain, I started writing. This story was about a writer from Chennai, an old story from Portugal, the new Goan state, an artist and a beautiful girl. I read up on the basic history of Goa, but relied on my imagination for the rest. It was a story that suited the dark rain-lashed background and a psychological study of a doomed relationship. The novel (Maria’s Room) was longlisted for the first Man Asian literary prize.
I was also happy with the book much later for another reason. It was converted into a special audio file, with my permission, for the use of blind readers. In any school or college library, there is a long line to get access to books in Braille. And audio format is of great help. Most publishers and authors are wary of permitting this because of the fear of piracy. Apart from Maria's Room, my children's book ‘The Magic Store of New-Cham-Vu,’ also came out in a format for the blind to read.
THE DARK LORD BECKONS
My first children’s book came out in the late 90s and my first novel was launched in 2000. I had already begun my innings as a playwright in 1986. I entered a British Council one act play competition with no background or experience, except for a bag full of
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curiosity. The play was called the Dark Lord. It was directed by today's veteran, Vinod Anand and featured among others, a 20-year-old Anita Nair as an 80-yearold woman. The play won the second price. I was so happy and surprised that I didn't write another play for almost a decade. Then came another competition, this time for a full-length play. It was sponsored by The Hindu and The Madras Players. I wrote a play based on an earlier short story of mine. It was called ‘Bow of Rama’ and it won the first prize.
Again, it took me 10 years to recover from the surprise of getting the first prize. When the Madras Players celebrated its 50th year, they asked me for a play, I wrote ‘Platform,’ which was directed by a dear friend N S Yamuna, who is now in Bangalore. It was only with my plays that I really began to experiment with form and content. The novel is too big, and the story sort of flows. You can't do much with it, except for a broad idea of how to keep it different from the usual. But in a play, you can experiment.
A STRING OF PLAYS
In ‘Platform,’ every alternate scene had the same actors in different roles and stories. When a train stops at a station, you'll see strangers gathered on a bench or standing together. And some of them look familiar. You sit in your seat in your train, and try to guess their stories. That was a premise of the play. I was also almost unconsciously forming a narrative of power—the power of the patriarch over his family, the rich over the poor, male over female, etc.
The journey of plays began with ‘The Dark Lord.’ It continued right through my other plays, ‘Bow of Rama,’ ‘Platform,’ ‘Five,’ and ‘Cast Party.’ At the ‘Cast Party,’ one of the lead actors took me aside and said, “It's so wonderful how you were able to pick up from my life.”
I think the best short stories depend on the reader to complete the experience. It is like a homeopathy pill. The small little thing goes into your system and then it works.
His character was almost like a reflection of his own life. He later went on to become a big actor in Hindi films. Recently, another actor who is a seasoned performer in Tamil and English theatre also told me the same thing.
In ‘Cast Party,’ there was a play within a play. It touched on the toxic power of the aggressive narrative. It took up the theme of an audience watching problematic relationships on the stage and passing comments on them. Normally when we sit together and watch a movie or a play, we discuss what is happening there and comment, “Oh, such a nasty man or such a terrible woman!” We don’t realise that we do the same thing at home. The back story was set in the army. The whole thing happens in Wellington between two army men. The entire play is a reflection of what happened during that time, and how it gets sorted out.
SISTERS: TRANSCENDING TIME
Even in ‘Midnight Hotel,’ which had ghosts and special effects and a lot of humour, the core theme was that of power and subjugation. In ‘Sisters,’ which came much later and was directed by Ajit Chitturi, there is an old man in the first scene, and each successive scene takes us back to his earlier years. The first scene is set in Mylapore. There is this old man and two old women, his sisters (typical Mylapore Mamis). The second scene is set in Kerala. The same man is younger by 20 years.
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The two women there are also sisters but they're nurses. And then 20 years earlier, the scene set in goa, the same man meets his two sisters- now, young girls from a convent. The story goes full circle, in the reverse order.
A word about the short story. I can't say for sure how many have been published because they have all been in anthologies. I think the best short stories depend on the reader to complete the experience. It is like a homeopathy pill. The small little thing goes into your system and then it works. The story already contains the muscle and bone; and tissue and soul. That will develop further when it is nourished by the reader's imagination.
AN UNUSUAL STORY
The most unusual story I wrote was for a Rupa Publications anthology. It was based in Thiruvananthapuram, where I was born, and had a glimpse of Sri Padmanabhaswamy temple. It touched upon the student politics of that time. It was unusual because the first part was like a normal short story. The second part was not only dramatic, but it was in the form of a play. Right now, I have on hand a novel and a play. The play has a current period showing the floods in Chennai, and a flashback to an earlier period showing the emergency, the Naxalites in Kerala, and Kalari with a martial arts master. The protagonist is from Kerala. A Bengali girl comes there to learn kalari.
My novel is called ‘Indian Scotch’ and I started writing it exactly 20 years ago, when I was a writer in residence in Scotland. And that has flown along like the proverbial river through all my other works, children's books, novels, short stories, poetry and plays. Every day, I think I will reach the end of that novel. Then the next day I go back to it and start again. So that is where I rest my case.
Q&A
How do you nurture and sustain your creativity, especially when faced with writer's block?
Writer's block generally happens when I write a 250 to 300 pages novel. If there is a block, I start writing a play. Sometimes, the whole play is over and then I get back to the novel. In the early days, I started celebrating my writer's block.
How have other forms of art, such as music or visual arts influenced your writing and creative process? How has it impacted your thinking when you are the great grandson of Raja Ravi Varma?
It feels nice and it's such a legacy. The family has gifted so much of arts and literature. Apart from Raja Ravi Varma, there were also other gifted people in the family. Swathi Thirunal was a music composer. Kerala Kalidasa wrote poetry. Raja Ravi Varma himself was a wonderful poet. It's a great gift to be born in such a family. I'm inspired constantly by music and art, especially music. Music is something which runs like blood in my veins.
Have there been mentors like Mr Muthiah, who have profoundly influenced your writing journey?
Mr. Muthiah was an early teacher. After that for a long time, we didn't meet but he was always there for me. It's always better to be inspired, and then to move ahead and take your own path. My favourite writers those days were Agatha Christie, Gabrielle Marquez and people like that. But I don't have somebody whom I stick to and keep imitating. Now I'm virtually on my own.
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In what ways do you believe life experiences enrich and influence artistic expression in writing?
Experience is absolutely necessary. If you are an art student and in art school, they normally take you out on a little excursion. You have to look at the trees, the skies and the flowers and you are encouraged to draw. The same thing applies to writing. You must read a lot.
But your experiences are what makes your writing special. Much of my work reflects my life. Without experience, someone like me would have never written. The fact I was a journalist earlier has helped me a lot.
What are some of the most profound influences and passions that have shaped your creative existence as a writer, poet and journalist?
There are so many incidents and events. I studied my primary education in Good Shepherd Convent,
Much of my work reflects my life. Without experience, someone like me would have never written. The fact I was a journalist earlier has helped me a lot.
Chennai. I stayed just behind the school. While everybody else took the bus or walked, I was taken to the school in a car, from the back gate to the front gate. I travelled by train every day to Christian College. In Bombay, I was doing night shifts and went to so many areas of Bombay that no resident would have ever visited. I was in the thick of the film industry. There are so many experiences which have shaped my writing, which I don't think many other people would have experienced.
What are your views on fake news?
Fake news is something that cannot be stopped because of the sheer magnitude of the social media and that anybody can write anything.
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I write when I feel like writing and when the urge is on. But it's better to have a certain time limit.
How do you perceive the evolution of writing and storytelling in today's digital age? What will be the impact of AI?
As far as the evolution of writing is concerned, 10 to 15 years ago, we had a conversation amongst the writers. We asked if Kindle would completely replace the books. Today, the book continues to sell. But we never know about the future. The attention span of readers is so much reduced nowadays. The last 20 years have been the fastest changing times and we can’t say what's coming next.
Can writing be a full-time profession?
I think it is a risk making writing your profession. Even Chetan Bhagat was working when he started writing. He used to give the first few chapters of his book free in the supermarket along with the grocery. Till you become a big name like Jeffrey Archer, you must work and make money. But if you write for the love of writing, it is always possible that you will get somewhere. If you write to make money, it is like any other business and you have to learn the ABCs of writing and make an industry out of it. I write for the love of writing What's your views on ghostwriting?
Ghost writing is a business. There are people who are very good at writing, but their names are not so big, because they write for other people, who are already famous. Even renowned music directors outsource their work.
Do you have any specific rituals or routines that you follow while writing? How do they contribute to your creative discipline?
I write when I feel like writing and when the urge is on. But it's better to have a certain time limit. If you're going to write at seven o'clock, go there and sit, whether something creative is coming out or not. One more thing is that inspiration or imagination is like electricity. It is always there in the air. When you channelize it and switch it on, it comes out.
What is the role of culture and heritage in shaping your perspectives and narratives as a writer?
The role of culture is very important. Just after my first novel, there was a shipload of foreigners who came here and they wanted to meet local writers and playwrights. They were from the US, UK and other places. Every time they asked a question, it was about me and my culture. If you are rooted in your culture, you don't have to keep spouting it all the time. Culture helps you to grow and it also helps your work to grow.
Is your creative thinking at your best in the early part of the day?
Generally, creative thinking takes place in the early part of the day. But I wake up a little late. Because of the night shifts I did when I was in Bombay with the newspaper, I generally sleep late. I am good towards the later part of the day.
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Ramaprasad: In a way, all of us are salespeople. We sell something or other in our day-to-day lives. We persuade or convince somebody to do something. We move others to accept our ideas. That's, in a way, a form of selling. So, sales is no longer confined to salespeople. It's open to everyone.
In the pre-internet era, we had an acronym 'ABC' that meant, whether you sell a product or service, you must always be closing the deal. According to Daniel Pink, ABC has changed in the post-internet era to attunement, buoyancy, and clarity. He also says that you need not be an extrovert to be successful in sales. You can be an introvert. He comes up with the term called ambivert, which is a mix of introvert and extrovert. You can choose to be an extrovert when you want, and at other times, you can be an introvert, and you can still be successful in sales. That is a very interesting perspective.
In the ABC acronym, attunement is about understanding the buyer even before selling anything.
Under the ‘Read & Grow’ series, MMA‐KAS organized a discussion on the theme of the book "To Sell is Human: The Surprising Truth About Moving Others" written by Daniel H. Pink on April 18, 2024, at MMA Management Center. Sreenivassan Ramaprasad, Director of CADD Centre Training Services, led the conversation with S Ramakrishnan, Co‐founder and Director of Harmony Residences Pvt Ltd, and Harinie Sekaran, Founder & CEO of Leadle Consulting.
Buoyancy involves motivating oneself, especially in the face of frequent rejections. Salespeople often encounter numerous rejections, such as in the insurance industry where out of 20 calls, 18 might result in rejection. Despite this, they must cultivate buoyancy or resilience to persistently engage in their tasks. Clarity refers to being clear about what you stand for, enabling you to effectively pitch your product.
Before the internet, sellers held significant power as all the information a buyer needed came solely from them. This era was characterized by the term "caveat emptor," meaning 'let the buyer beware.' However, in the post-internet era, this dynamic has undergone a complete transformation. Today, buyers possess access to abundant information. Consequently, the paradigm has shifted from "caveat emptor" to "caveat venditor," meaning 'let the seller beware.'
When selling something, it's crucial not to push a product that isn't genuinely useful to someone. Instead, the focus should be on facilitating a transformation in
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the other person's life. Selling should be approached as a means of serving the individual by offering products or services that genuinely meet their needs. The service aspect is paramount in sales.
Ramakrishnan: We typically perceive a salesperson as someone pushy, always promoting a product or service. However, sales isn't limited to corporate settings. From the moment we're born until we depart from this world, we engage in selling in various forms. We persuade, convince, and influence others throughout our lives. Mastering the art of selling is integral to leadership, negotiation skills, and personality development.
Extroverts are often seen as pushy individuals who dominate conversations, sometimes not allowing others to speak. Conversely, introverts may shy away from dialogue altogether, lacking the skills to ask pertinent questions. Daniel Pink's notion of ambiverts, who fall somewhere in between on this spectrum, resonates deeply with this understanding
Harinie: Our inboxes are often inundated with salespeople asking, "Do you have this problem or can you resonate with this problem?" before proposing their product as a solution. However, in today's informationrich environment, individuals can often find solutions to their problems independently. According to Daniel Pink, the modern salesperson is not merely a problem solver but a problem finder.
It's widely acknowledged that extroverts may not excel in sales roles due to their tendency to dominate conversations. Effective salesmanship requires being a good listener and asking the right questions. I can draw parallels between theatre acting and sales. My cofounder has a background in theatre and acting. We have incorporated improv into our sales training programs. Improv involves spontaneous performance without a script, requiring individuals to adapt and respond in the moment.
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One crucial concept proposed by the author is the curation of information. Our responsibility is to curate the most relevant and valuable information to share. This is a process that begins with understanding the perspective of the customer.
~ Ramakrishnan
In sales, where customers often conduct their own research and can surprise you with their knowledge, being able to improvise and add value to conversations is crucial. Salespeople must be adept at going with the flow and responding dynamically to the customer's needs.
Ramaprasad: Those aspects are indeed crucial in effective salesmanship. Finding the problem, asking pertinent questions, active listening, and utilising improvisation techniques can greatly enhance the effectiveness of sales interactions and ultimately lead to more successful outcomes.
Harinie: I've always felt that in sales, we tend to overestimate our communication skills. I expect the party on the other end to receive what I'm saying exactly the way I intend to say it. This is the root cause of many relationship problems. Research indicates that people typically receive 30 to 40% of what we communicate. I consistently remind my team to communicate thoroughly, to over communicate if necessary, and to ensure that the recipients understand the message.
There are interesting exercises in the book. In one of them, two people are tasked with having a conversation. One person is from the 20th century, while the other is meant to be from the 17th century. The individual from the 20th century must sell something to the person from the 17th century in a manner that the latter can understand. It always proves to be an engaging exercise.
In our interactions with customers, it's important to ask thoughtful questions. There may be a temptation to simply suggest, "Why don't you try it?" But we must resist this urge. Instead, we should focus on asking probing questions that encourage customers to express themselves clearly.
Ramakrishnan: Today, we often encounter information asymmetry, where one party has more or better information than the other. One crucial concept proposed by the author is the curation of information. Our responsibility is to curate the most relevant and valuable information to share. This is a process that begins with understanding the perspective of the customer.
Once we've identified the areas in which we want to curate information, we must compile a list of the best sources. Regularly scanning these sources allows us to gather the most relevant items. This approach enables us to add genuine value to our interactions with customers by providing them with curated insights tailored to their needs.
Curating can be as straightforward as creating an annotated list of web links or consistently updating your own blog. The author suggests that we should dedicate time every day to maintain our list of resources. Once we've gathered the necessary information, we begin the curation process and then
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share it. This is the essence of curation. For instance, a potential buyer approached us and said he was interested in purchasing a property. However, through extensive questioning, we came to know that he didn't actually need a house.
Harinie: Many of the concepts presented by the author in the book are easy to comprehend, but their application can prove challenging. While everyone talks about achieving win-win outcomes, it's often difficult to put this principle into practice.
Consider a domestic scenario where you want to watch a particular TV show, but someone else in your household prefers a different one. In such situations, the immediate impulse is to prioritize your own desires, without rationally thinking if a compromise could lead to a win-win outcome.
Achieving continuous improvement, even by just 1% each day, requires significant training and commitment in any area we seek to improve. In our sales training sessions, participants typically absorb only about 50% of the information initially delivered, and a month later, retention rates drop to around 20%. This underscores the need for training on a regular basis. Monthly training sessions are essential to reinforce and expand upon previous learnings. Continuous improvement is a lifelong journey, and there are no shortcuts to mastering it.
Ramakrishnan: In Harmony Homes, our initial salesperson didn't come from a traditional sales background; instead, they were from a customer service background. We've always approached hiring with the understanding that every role involves some form of selling, echoing Daniel Pink's perspective. The principles outlined in the book remain pertinent and will continue to be relevant.
Achieving continuous improvement, even by just 1% each day, requires significant training and commitment in any area we seek to improve.
~ Harinie
While the concept of improv may come naturally to creative artists, it can be challenging for the average person. However, I am sure our sales team can use this approach effectively. Unfortunately, it's common for salespeople to begin objecting when customers express their requirements, often due to a lack of active listening. This is an area where improvement is necessary.
I believe it would be beneficial for all our salespeople to consistently incorporate offers and compelling information into their conversations. Every sentence presents an opportunity to engage customers with intriguing offers or valuable insights. Improv, in particular, is an incredibly powerful concept that can enhance the effectiveness of our sales interactions.
Ramaprasad: True. Improv can be an incredibly effective approach for handling objections in sales situations. I recall a specific instance where a client requested a product feature that our offering didn't have. Instead of immediately conceding or withdrawing, I engaged the client in conversation to understand the relevance of the feature. Through thoughtful questioning and active listening, we discovered that the
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As time progresses, advancements in AI and other technological tools continue to streamline the selling process.
~ Harinie
feature would actually be detrimental to their needs. This highlights the importance of quick thinking on one's feet and asking probing questions to genuinely understand the customer's requirements.
As technology continues to evolve, with advancements like ChatGPT, it's natural to wonder if the concepts discussed in the book will remain relevant over time.
Ramakrishnan: The Y2K phenomenon was predicted to cause widespread computer shutdowns, yet ultimately, the anticipated disaster never happened. Similarly, the notion of going completely paperless a decade ago hasn't fully materialised either. What these instances demonstrate is that while we continuously embrace technology, there remains a significant human element in all our endeavours. Despite the increasing complexity of our world, humans possess a remarkable ability to adapt and find solutions. This adaptability has been a cornerstone of our survival for ages, reflecting the enduring principle of "survival of the fittest."
Harinie: I also think that the concepts are timeless because as long as there are humans, people will try to
sell something to other people. We all have to learn continuously to be good at what we do. ‘The Psychology of Selling’ is the first sales book that I ever read. Till now, good salespeople have done pretty much the same things discussed in that book. They have wanted to serve their customers and improve the lives of the customers.
When I began my sales career, acquiring email addresses was a significant challenge. Today, however, my team has access to a vast database of 3 million contacts. As time progresses, advancements in AI and other technological tools continue to streamline the selling process. Now, we can efficiently send customized and curated messages to even 10,000 customers at once. It's clear that leveraging technology is essential in today's marketplace; those who fail to do so risk missing out on valuable opportunities on the table.
Ramaprasad: How will you do a sales pitch for your company?
Ramakrishnan: We build and provide dream homes, trying to meet the aspirations of the buyers. We build elegant and functional homes in the city of Chennai. We meet aspirations and build aspirational homes for the new generation.
Harinie: My one-word pitch for my company is ‘Growth.’
Ramaprasad: Does selling concepts from a foreign culture work well in Indian culture?
Ramakrishnan: They are very much relevant. Concepts like genuineness, authenticity and principled negotiation are applicable in any culture. The western culture is more extroverted. In the eastern culture, people are more of introverts. I know, it's not very fair to generalize but I intuitively feel that people of the
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eastern cultures are shy. In Indian culture, we have just started to express ourselves.
Ramaprasad: You talked about asking questions to a customer and finding out that he really didn’t need to buy a house. Would that approach not affect your sales and revenues?
Ramakrishnan: I do a business in which the supply is always lesser than the demand. We build residential homes inside the city. I won't say I'm a magnanimous person. I don't go against the conventional sales process. I know that if I am not able to close the sale with one person, definitely, in another two, three months’ time, I will be able to find somebody, who will genuinely value that particular product. That is more important.
Ramprasad: You must understand that not everyone can be your customer. Not everyone will have the need that can be fulfilled by your product or services. But you will definitely find a person who has the need, which can be fulfilled by your product. You can even guide the buyer towards your product by asking insightful questions. That's what I did when somebody wanted a particular feature. He withdrew that feature because it was irrelevant and even against their core values.
Ramakrishnan: Probably if I were selling a pen or a brush which is valued at 10 rupees or 100 rupees, I might have just sold that. I have a product and as a sales person, I have to sell it. But when I'm selling a 2crore home to somebody, then I have to really think whether my offering is relevant to that person.
Harinie: We generally say that we have to create the need. But in today's environment, what you can potentially do is to make people aware of a problem which they do not necessarily realise. By asking the
Not everyone will have the need that can be fulfilled by your product or services. But you will definitely find a person who has the need, which can be fulfilled by your product.
~ Ramprasad
right questions, you can find a potential customer. Your product will be a good fit, if it solves the root cause of the customer’s problems.
Ramaprasad: When we network, everyone comes to sell to each other. How can we handle such a scenario?
Harinie: I don't sell when I go to any event. The key piece in any networking event is to listen with attention. In our office, we ask people what they think is their superpower and what they think is the superpower of others. I was very happy when my team said that my superpower is that I listen very intently. Truly, it is a superpower. If you find five people, have deep conversations with them. Maybe one or two people will end up buying from you. This has always been my experience.
If you have two hours to network, you can't spend the entire time talking to just one person. I would say twenty minutes is a good timeframe to spend with an individual. In every conversation, I consider: what can I learn about this person? How can I add value to them? If you do that, they will likely come back to you, ask for your card, and potentially reach out to you later.
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Ramakrishnan: The example quoted by Daniel Pink in the book is a powerful illustration of the significance of listening to customers. Whenever Jeff Bezos enters an Amazon meeting room, there is always an empty chair placed there, unoccupied. This chair symbolizes an invisible customer who is always present, listening in on the discussions. It serves as a constant reminder of the importance of considering and prioritizing the customer's perspective and needs in every decisionmaking process. The author suggests a method to generate questions. Write down all the questions you can think of. Sort them into close-ended questions that invite yes or no answers and open-ended questions which will invite an elaborate answer. Then, refine your questions.
Ramaprasad: How can we maintain authenticity and integrity while trying to influence others or making a sale? Does it depend on the brand of the organization?
Ramakrishnan: Authenticity is the quality of being genuine, true to oneself, and transparent in one's actions and interactions. In sales, establishing trust with customers is essential, and authenticity plays a crucial role in building that trust. Authenticity is closely linked with integrity.
Certain organizations, such as Tata, are widely recognized for their authenticity and integrity. Over time, these organisations have built a reputation for reliability, honesty, and ethical conduct. Similarly, individuals who demonstrate authenticity and integrity in their actions are often perceived as trustworthy and reliable.
Authenticity and integrity are qualities that must be cultivated and maintained over time. They are not just important traits of individuals, but also fundamental attributes of successful organizations that
aim to establish long-term relationships with customers and stakeholders.
Attunement, buoyancy and clarity for effective selling
Harinie: Attunement involves understanding the perspective of your customer and empathising with their needs and challenges. During a sales call, the initial 10 to 15 minutes are dedicated to 'discovery,' where you enquire about their background, concerns, and objectives. This phase provides valuable insights that help the rest of the conversation.
Buoyancy entails maintaining a balanced mindset throughout the call, neither overly optimistic nor overly pessimistic. Positivity is key, both in attitude and conversation, to keep the interaction constructive and engaging.
Clarity revolves around identifying the core issues faced by the customer. Prior to the sales call, it's crucial to conduct thorough research on the customer to gain insights. This preparation allows you to curate relevant information for the initial portion of the call, ensuring that you address their needs effectively from the outset.
Ramaprasad: How can we incorporate empathy in our sales approach?
Ramakrishnan: Empathy is always very important. Empathy is about understanding the minds of other persons and feeling for them. But as a sales person, to get the right information, you must connect with the customers’ heads more than with the hearts.
Harinie: Yes. If I worry too much about my customers’ feelings, I will probably end up with a bad deal. Instead, if I find out what my customer thinks, then I will be able to get a win-win deal.
fountainhead of excellence BUSINESS MANDATE 56 JUNE 2024
fountainhead of excellence JUNE 2024 BUSINESS MANDATE 57