MMA-KAS Business Mandate (Oct 2023)

EDITOR

Gp Capt R Vijayakumar ﴾Retd﴿, VSM

READERSHIP OUTREACH

Gp Capt Dr R Venkataraman ﴾Retd﴿

Sundar R

Vakeeswari M

DESIGN

D Rajaram, Tayub Refai

A Champion of Consistency:

IManagement Association”! This year’s winning marks the 14th consecutive time that MMA has secured this prestigious award. And it fills us with immense pride.

stakeholders, including our dedicated President, Office Bearers, Past Presidents, Managing Committee members, and our esteemed large number of Members.

I must express my heartfelt gratitude to my exceptional

Gp Capt R Vijayakumar (Retd), VSM

team at the MMA Secretariat, who have played an instrumental role in this achievement

We extend our sincerest thanks to all of you for your invaluable contributions in helping MMA retain its position as the leading management association in India Together, we have made this victory possible!

Stock Market

As the stock market continues to reach new highs, many retail investors, especially those looking to enter the market, may be feeling a bit apprehensive about the elevated index levels and valuations. While the broader retail investor community may be at risk of a steep market downturn, it's essential to note that valuations in the current rally have reached stratospheric levels, particularly in stocks with low free floatable shares, which are shares of a company that can be publicly traded. Experts anticipate a decent investment cycle but express uncertainty about the quality of many stocks, given their historically weak execution and governance track records a warning that retail investors should take seriously. Against this backdrop, MMA organized a discussion on the theme "Indian Stock Markets: Overvalued or What?" featuring eminent panellists

The event took place on August 28, 2023. I am delighted to present an article that comprehensively covers this thought-provoking discussion, complete with embedded videos for your reading and viewing pleasure. We encourage you to peruse the article and watch the videos to gain valuable insights into the current state of the stock market

Beware: Indian Start‐Ups!

The Indian start-up ecosystem is rapidly expanding currently ranked as the third-largest in the world and attracting significant domestic and international capital. Governance in the start-up world encompasses

various aspects, including statutory compliance, making informed decisions, and going beyond mere adherence to the letter of the law by embracing its spirit. It is crucial for start-ups to recognize the significance of complying with statutory regulations, as the law does not distinguish between intentional and inadvertent compliance lapses.

In this context, MMA has organized a series titled "Start-up India - Opportunities & Excitement," where successful entrepreneurs and start-ups share their insights and success stories, revealing how they achieved their goals I am pleased to present articles covering these events We encourage you to explore these resources to gain a deeper understanding of the opportunities and challenges in the Indian start-up landscape

Empowering Women, the Formula for Prosperity

Today, the role of women extends far beyond the realm of social justice Their role has evolved into an undeniable economic imperative that nations can no longer afford to ignore. Numerous research studies consistently uncover the tangible benefits of gender diversity in the workplace, revealing that it fosters creativity, enhances productivity, and boosts profitability.

To address gender disparities in political representation, the parliament passed the women's reservation bill, which mandates one-third reservation for women in the Lok Sabha and Legislative Assemblies. As we move forward, the world must continue to innovate, collaborate, and invest in women's empowerment. The road to economic prosperity and social advancement is paved with the contributions of women, and now is the time to expand and deepen these efforts, paving the way for a more inclusive and

prosperous future In this context, MMA organized a panel discussion on "Voice of Change - Gender Portrayal from 30 Seconds to 3 Hours," in association with IAA. A galaxy of eminent panelists shared their insights on this thought-provoking theme, inspiring us to work together to break gender biases I am pleased to present an article covering this event, along with the embedded video in this issue, to inspire and promote women's empowerment

Enhancing Board Effectiveness as a Competitive Advantage

In today's business landscape, corporate boards have evolved into more than just regulatory requirements; they can be a strategic asset for a company. Recognizing the significance of this evolution, MMA is organizing a discussion centred around the theme of the book "Inside the Boardroom – How Behaviour Trumps Rationality," authored by Mr. R. Gopalakrishnan. During this event, Mr. Vijay Sankar, Chairman of The Sanmar Group, will share his valuable insights on the theme and lead a stimulating conversation with the author. This discussion is scheduled to take place on October 6, 2023 at MMA Management Center

We invite you to join us live on our social channels to watch this engaging discussion, or if you prefer, you can attend in person at MMA Gain valuable insights and inspiration as we delve into the critical role of corporate boards in today's dynamic business environment.

Mark your calendars and be a part of this enlightening discussion!

Ticking Age Clock

The 2023 India's Ageing Report, published by the United Nations Population Fund and the International

Institute of Population Sciences, serves as a sobering wake-up call for our society It is high time that we shift our focus towards establishing a more supportive environment for our elderly citizens, with a particular emphasis on women's well-being This support should encompass income security, healthcare access, and social investments. Failure to address these crucial issues could lead us into a middle-income trap characterized by inequality, resulting in an aging population without the necessary financial security.

Let's take this opportunity to examine the key areas where our society can make improvements to ensure a better quality of life for our aging population, especially women

CavinKare – MMA Chinnikrishnan Innovation Award 2023:

Mr Chinnikrishnan pioneered the "Sachet Revolution," believing that what the affluent can enjoy, the common man should be able to afford. In a fitting tribute to his memory, the CavinKare MMAChinnikrishnan Innovation Awards celebrate innovation in India. The response to the Award has been overwhelming, with over 200 nominations pouring in from innovators across the country

The grand Award ceremony took place in September 2023 at the Auditorium of IIT Madras Research Park to honor three exceptional innovators who received the CavinKare – MMA Chinnikrishnan Awards for 2023 These three outstanding awardees now stand as the shining jewels in the crown of the Chinnikrishnan Innovation Award In today's world, there is an undeniable need for an unwavering focus on innovation to make products and services accessible to all. We invite you to join us in our mission to promote innovation Mr

Suresh Narayanan, Managing Director

of Nestle, was the Chief Guest at the Award ceremony His thought-provoking address on innovation served as an inspiration and ignited the thought processes of all the participants.

I am delighted to present to you the article on Mr. Suresh Narayanan's address, which includes an embedded video.

M. S. Swaminathan ﴾1925 – 2023﴿: The Architect of the Indian Green Revolution

With the passing of M S Swaminathan, India has bid farewell to one of its most esteemed and influential figures. He stood as a global leader in the Green Revolution and was the primary architect and guiding light in the realm of agricultural research and technology. Numerous milestones in agriculture could not have been reached without his invaluable guidance

India's journey to self-sufficiency in food production, and even its ability to export food grains, owes a significant debt to the contributions of M S Swaminathan His tireless efforts played a pivotal role in saving millions of lives from the clutches of starvation. This giant among men, a true veteran, has completed his earthly journey, leaving behind a legacy that will be remembered and cherished with immense pride for generations to come

22nd MMA All India Management Students Convention 2023

In today's rapidly evolving world, sustainability has become more than just a buzzword; it has become a necessity for businesses to thrive in the long run. The MMA All-India Management Students Convention 2023 proudly presents the theme, "Innovate for a Responsible Tomorrow". We believe that the future of successful business lies in creating sustainable models that

prioritize technology, people, the planet and profit in equal measure Together, let's explore ground breaking ideas and actionable strategies to build a brighter and more responsible future for businesses and society. This convention seeks to provide key perspectives on “innovate to sustain” and share insights on the emerging trends around sustainability by focusing on technology. Mr P Elango, Convention Chairman and other members of the Convention Committee have put in tremendous effort not only in conceptualizing the theme but also in identifying a galaxy of eminent speakers to address the Students during the Convention I thank the Management Students and their respective B-Schools for the overwhelming response to our competitions and in particular “Chanakya

The Mastermind” which attracted over 5000 Management Students from all over India

We are indeed delighted to present this special issue of Business Mandate on the occasion of the convention with interesting and thought provoking articles with embedded videos I wish all the students participants at the Convention good luck and success in all their future endeavour.

As always, we would be happy to hear your views, comments and suggestions

Happy reading!

One of the themes of the Chinnikrishnan Innovation Awards has been the very laudable dream that Chinnikrishnan had Whatever the rich can enjoy, the common man should be able to afford. For this, he was willing to give up his steady job as a school teacher and go on a process of a wild goose chase, literally, in times which were very different. There were no accelerators, no startups, and no incubators There was nothing

He had the determination, the will, the passion, and the compassion to ensure that he delivered products in an affordable format and started what would be a journey of great valorisation of innovation in the consumer goods industry He is not just the father of Mr. C K Ranganathan, but also the father of the sachet revolution in this country where everyone Indian companies and foreign companies like mine have all been inspired by that idea, taken it, and used it in our own space to do whatever we could do to make things more affordable for those who can't afford it. This theme has always been a bugbear, a passion, something

that people said, ‘I cannot sleep without solving this problem ’ I represent a company, Nestle, which is also 160 years old, founded by Henri Nestle, who was himself an entrepreneur at a time when Switzerland was very poor He was an immigrant from Germany to Switzerland and had tried his hands at various innovations and various businesses, including lighting up the then village and now town of Vevey in Switzerland on the banks of Lake Geneva He had taken a contract for road construction and put his money in paraffin wax. Many of the businesses that he did failed. But the determination to be a good human and to do good for mankind never left him

19th-century Switzerland was a poor country, though we can't imagine that Switzerland can ever be a poor country There was a huge infant mortality A number of children died before they reached the age of five. Henri Nestle was a kind man. He wondered what he could do about it. He was a trained pharmacist. He put together a product consisting of wheat flour, milk, sugar, vitamins, minerals, and a few other things and

According to Mr Suresh Narayanan, Chairman and Managing Director of Nestle India Ltd , innovation is powered by the 5Cs, which in various ways have defined successful global brands. He was delivering the keynote address at the MMA‐CavinKare ChinniKrishnan Innovation Awards.

gave it to a sick Warner, his neighbour's son. Warner survived. Then he gave it to a few more children in the village where he was staying, and they all survived

The head of the village called him and said, “Henri, you are a dead broke entrepreneur. You will not be able to continue giving this free stuff to all the kids. Start a business ” Hence, the Nestle empire was born He gave his name to it and to its product so that every product that he sold would have his seal of quality and safety.

He built partnerships, went into the ecosystem, got the best quality milk, the best quality wheat flour, and the best quality of everything The original product was called Farine Lactée Nestle, which in French means wheat flour and milk. The product still exists today, and some of you might have given it to your children It's called Cerelac It was the first product of this company in 1866. You can see that whether it was Mr. Chinnikrishnan in India or continents away, Henri Nestle passion began with a dream to do good to mankind None of them dreamt of being billionaires or becoming

the most famous business person or entrepreneur in their times. They wanted to do good for humankind. My company, Nestle, started small. It is today the largest consumer goods product in the world, tipping the scales at almost $100 billion in sales. We never had family planning in innovation. We have more than 2000 brands globally The challenge for me and my team is not what to launch but when to launch It's all the power of innovation.

The 5Cs of Innovation

What are the lessons that one can draw from this?

If I were to crystallize five principles and call them the five Cs of innovation, they would be as follows:

Challenge of Innovation: The first C is the challenge of innovation It is the marriage of impact and technology. Making an impact on the market and also using technology is the most important interface that one can look at in broad terms

At Nestle, we use accelerators We use the interface in our R&D centers, and we have one in India in Manesar, which is near Gurgaon that identifies brilliant ideas and sparks. For example, somebody may want to work with seaweed for packaging or look at a better way of recycling plastic or consider a better protein source or a cheaper protein source for children. These are the kinds of ideas that we incubate in our accelerators, and we ensure that they see the light of day. These are causes much bigger than what the company represents and yet it is an important question that needs to be answered

The marriage between impact and technology can lead to innovation which is architectural, whereby you try and do something in order to stay in the market; or incremental, by which you make some improvement in the product facilities and capabilities and improve your market share; or radical, which means that there is a huge technological leap, but not necessarily a massive market following that

But the most interesting form of innovation is the disruptive where both the impact and the technology are huge. The three awardees of the Chinnikrishnan Innovation Awards 2023 have come up with disruptive innovations They are using the power of technology to solve problems that are acute. Imagine if 12 million glaucoma patients were one day able to get the benefit of screening Forget the fact that they have better lives Imagine the impact on the economic life of this country when we add 12 million people into the productive workforce if the blind, for instance, were to be incorporated into mainstream, using the innovation that has been awarded today.

It can make a huge difference to the environment. Think of the massive impact that can be had by recycling batteries and recovering 96% of what has gone

into it. The youngsters’ thinking of making India selfreliant on essential minerals and materials is a very noble thought These are disruptive innovations that both companies and the government must encourage as they can really spearhead the transformation of this country radically

Context of Innovation: The second C is the context of innovation, which is consumer insight. It is as important as the ‘how,’ which is what you will do with the product Mr Chinnikrishnan had a simple consumer insight that if he made something affordable, people would be interested in buying it. Henri Nestle had the simple consumer insight that if children in a family survived, the family would be happy, and there would be greater productivity in the economy. All of this is insight-based. If I'm able to get a technology to make reading and listening to audio visuals easier for those who are sight-impaired, it can improve their quality of life and hopefully make them join the productive workforce.

Quite recently, Nestle did an experiment More than an experiment, I look at it as a duty that corporates need to do. At our Sanand factory in Gujarat, which is a fairly large factory, 60% of the workforce are women.

 But the most interesting form of innovation is the disruptive where both the impact and the technology are huge.

 My advice to all the young innovators is to focus on the delivery systems. You have great ideas, great technologies, and have made the bridge extremely well. Now look at the impact.

One of the things that we wanted to debunk is the theory that women in manufacturing don't work. That is one of our best factories We have now added a second dimension to it A couple of months back, we have recruited 12 hearing-impaired people. They will be part of the production floor.

Look at the transformative behavior that happened We all thought that they will be maladjusted and they'll have a problem. In reality, the normal workers have started to learn sign language in order to communicate. Who says that you need PhD degrees to be wise, to be compassionate, and to be considerate? This can become a start towards a gentler and more respectful culture, which is what we need as human beings and which is what we need as society

The best example I can think of is Thomas Alva Edison. He not only discovered the electric bulb but also figured out the filament, the vacuum that surrounds it, and a cheap way of manufacturing thousands of light bulbs. Today, we have moved on in terms of innovation. But look at the beauty in which “the who, the what, and the how?” was captured by Edison, who is considered one of the greatest innovators of all times

It is the power of putting together not just the

insight but also the product and the delivery system That is extremely important

My advice to all the young innovators is to focus on the delivery systems. You have great ideas, great technologies, and have made the bridge extremely well Now look at the impact You should be able to reach out to thousands of people. Aravind Eye hospitals is one of the proudest institutions of our country. Quietly, firmly, and effectively, in a dedicated manner, they treat millions of people with cataracts in the cheapest manner that is possible. That is innovation in its purest form

Cultivating Design Thinking: The third C is cultivating design thinking. In managing innovation, we think of the entrepreneur first. What is it that I can produce conveniently? What is it that I can market conveniently, and what will give me the highest margin? Instead, ask, what is important to the consumer? There are three characteristics that design thinking teaches us Desirability, feasibility, and viability

Desirability addresses ‘Does the consumer love it?’ Feasibility talks about, ‘Can I make it?” Viability is, ‘Can this be sustained over a period of time?’ These are simple concepts

Design thinking today has become an essential element of most corporates. But what we make complex is the interpretation. When we call it by fancy names, people find it inaccessible

Co-creating Solutions: The fourth C, which the corporates and small companies can look at is cocreating solutions with consumers, customers, and suppliers No company is God unto itself No organization is full of all the geniuses on the planet Sometimes, the most powerful thoughts come from the humblest people.

In the last five, six years, we have launched more than 100 new products as a company, and some of the ideas have come from consumers and customers. They haven't come from within the group that manages the company You must have the power to be able to go beyond consumers, customers, and suppliers I daresay even government institutions can participate in it.

Recently, we launched a product in Delhi as a test market It is a millet porridge It's called A-plus millets We process Bajra, which is one of the more plentiful millets in this country, but also one of the most difficult to process. We have developed a patented technology for it, in conjunction with the Indian Institute of Millet Research, Hyderabad and who are doing fantastic work in the area of millet cultivation, millet processing, and millet formation into products. Nestle may be a big company but we have our feet on the ground We partnered with people who have decades of experience in millet and came up with this product.

Today we see the applications of this technology in Africa It may not be the same masala millet because they will not like this particular product because of taste and local reasons. But the technologies are going to be applicable for Africa, which is a stressed part of the world in nutrition deficiencies There is a larger purpose that can be achieved by co-creating solutions.

Culture of Innovation: The final and probably the most important C is creating a culture of innovation

We all like innovation Unfortunately, to be commercially successful is very difficult. For example, in the food sector, less than 10% of innovations are successful And yet, as organizations, we have to create the culture of innovation It comes with a simple premise that should be read, like the scriptures, by the leadership of the organization. Failing to succeed will enable succeeding to succeed

We have to live with failures in order to be successful You don't ride a bicycle the first time you ride it. We all know that as children, we fell and we see our children fall. But as Nelson Mandela said, it is not important that we fall It is important that we dust ourselves and rise again That is the most important part of being a human.

The Chinnikrishnan Innovation Award

The Chinnikrishnan Innovation Awards process does three things. It recognizes that innovation is at the core of a society.

Second, it has a democratic, meritocratic, and wellestablished analytical process of identifying who the best of the best are. And number three, it gives the platform for these best of the best to not only get recognized but to get the necessary funding and financing and the limelight to scale up their ideas It is the same that is needed in corporates. It is the leadership that has to walk the talk.

At Nestle, in recent times, we are innovating at a pace more than three times what we have done ten years ago. Nothing has happened to the process. Nothing has happened in terms of the expectations. What has happened is that the ability to fail has increased. The leadership, starting from me, now says, “If something fails, I take the rap on my shoulder, and I take the responsibility for it You go ahead and do what you think is important and relevant to the consumer.”

Innovation is truly a journey that encompasses a passion and a dream and perseverance It elevates the spirit of the country, the organization, and the community. It tells us that there is something beyond what we all think is obvious and that it is possible to convert dreams into realities 

Dr Sujatha: Both of you have ventured into startups that tackle social problems. What motivated you to pick the problems that you chose?

Moinak: I grew up in the city of Durgapur in West Bengal where we used to have problem with water supply. I was a small boy then and was not trained to solve that problem. But I wanted to solve it. The main trigger point happened when I went abroad The first day I was there, I asked them where I could drink water They said I could just go to the tap and drink from there. I was surprised at getting drinking water from the tap I realised there is something wrong in India I met my co-founder and came back to India to solve the water problem.

Swostik: The work of NeoMotion, in fact, started in the lab of Dr Sujatha Srinivasan at IIT Madras I was interested in designing hardware As a part of my final year project work, I worked on a swimming pool lift for the physically challenged. I was in touch with a few wheelchair users We applied all the principles, built a

Under the "Start‐up India ‐ Opportunities & Excitement" series, MMA organised a discussion recently Mr Moinak Baneerjee, Co‐Founder, Solinas Integrity Pvt Ltd and Mr Swostik Sourav Das, Co‐Founder & CEO NeoMotion Assistive Solutions shared their success stories and lessons in a conversation with Dr Sujatha Srinivasan, Professor Department of Mechanical Engineering Indian Institute of Technology Madras

prototype, took it to a swimming pool and a few users tried it The feedback they provided showed how important and meaningful it was for them.

I was surprised that such a simple mechanical device, which could be built by anybody, had not yet been built A simple intervention can actually solve a large problem for the physically challenged. In 2013, I worked on this project. For the next two years, I was away working on a different subject In 2016, we founded NeoMotion and for the last eight years, it has been a fantastic journey. It's extremely rewarding when you are able to solve a genuine problem of the society

Can you name one skill that you had to cultivate that was not really part of your engineering curriculum?

Swostik: The art of delegation and building a fantastic team As we grow, it becomes very important that you have people who are smarter and better than you. I am always tempted to go and do it myself. But it

doesn't solve the problem in the long run It's important that there are team members. That's the recent learning. Earlier, I worked with ITC for two years and got a good exposure to finance Those financial insights have given me a lot of confidence to take decisions

Moinak: To transition from an engineer to an entrepreneur, the most important skill, I feel is having a deep appreciation and understanding of the customer, so you can build better products. The second skill is understanding the problem that we are trying to solve for the customer The deeper you understand the problem, the more intelligent ideas you get and the more intelligent products you can build, which will sell in the market.

L&T and others who manage pipelines, septic tanks and manholes. We first brought the technology for inspection and cleaning of tanks. It was very new and when you bring some new changes into the system, you always get a pushback and people do not like change. In the beginning, it was challenging to convince customers But as we gave them impact and results over a period of time, things became easier and smoother We got traction and we could get more and more users and customers.

What are the challenges you have faced in getting those customers?

Moinak: 50% of our customers are from the government like municipal corporations and utility operators. We also cater to the private enterprises like

Swostik: Our customers are people with locomotor disability There are two segments that we address - the clinical side and the economic part of it. Our products are priced at one lakh rupees and that's not something which everybody can afford We cater to a small market, but we wanted to do a fantastic job in that segment before moving to different segments. We have in our pipeline the idea of offering the same mobility solution at a price point of 12,000 or 15,000 rupees for a larger market.



For this, the entire product development mindset has to be different We know that there will be people for whom, we cannot solve their requirements right now. But in due course of time, it needs to be solved. Initially, we used to think that everybody should use our product but we realised that it would be better not to push our products across all segments and that there may be better players in different segments We have evolved over the years

All our vendors are very small automotive players. This is one of the biggest learning – having the right partners. The second thing is the importance of building the database and repository of anything that we do.

As entrepreneurs in the hardware space, what are some of the challenges that you have faced?

Swostik: First of all, we are in the social space and it is a new segment, a new category Second, it's a hardware These are two very difficult problems to solve. I'll share an example of the difficulties of being in the hardware space. I used all the principles that I learnt at ITC to evaluate and select vendors, who had all the facilities and capabilities. But even after following up for four or five months, there was no outcome For them, we are an insignificant business I don't even contribute to 0 5% of their annual revenue

So, we started working with people who did not have all the facilities and did not know everything, but they were good partners who spend time with you and who value your relationship There is some mutual understanding and it will grow. That’s how we build our vendors. All our vendors are very small automotive players This is one of the biggest learning – having the right partners The second thing is the importance of building the database and repository of anything that we do. Specifically in hardware, database becomes very crucial

Moinak: Hardware businesses are capital intensive With software, you can go through an agile method. If you build something and find it is wrong, you can just

throw it and move out But with a hardware, things are different. The prototype may go through multiple iterations. We must be clear on why we are building it, what are the specs, what type of market we are targeting and who the end user would be. Because if you are not very clear with these ideas, you may end up spending lakhs of rupees building the first hardware prototype and then you may realise there is something wrong. You have to build again from scratch. A startup which is in the initial stage cannot afford to do that.

So, you have to be very precise on why you are manufacturing and do a very good back work. And as Swostik said, it is important that you build your supply chain in a proper way, over a period of time. Tesla has a very good product but their main USP is how they build their supply chain.

Swostik: As we build a wheelchair, it needs to be delivered to a person either in Chennai or other locations in India. If something goes wrong over there, the only way to solve it is to go there and work on it. As we build customized wheelchairs, the testing validation before we send it to the customer is crucial

All the first 25 units that we deployed in the field had to be replaced, though we had done a lot of lab tests, accelerated tests and so on But on field test is on field test and it is very different. The good thing is we had controlled it to a group of 25. We were mentally

prepared and became richer with the learnings How quickly you do your controlled pilots will determine your speed to the market.

evolves When we thought of solving the problem of manual scavenging and the problem of leakages in pipes and sewer lines, we thought that our customers would be only government and we would be a pure B2C business Then we realized that it's a much bigger and more diverse range of customers that we have and we can be B2B also.

What are the challenges that you both face as non-Tamil speaking entrepreneurs, having established your businesses in Chennai?

Moinak: I did my Bachelor’s degree in Chennai. Though I don’t speak the local language, I have never faced a problem because of that. Tamil Nadu is one of the most industrialised states in India. The startup environment and the infrastructure push that we have here, compensate for any other difficulty

Swostik: I feel very comfortable being here. I think the transparency and genuineness in the conversations here is very high You can have an open conversation and be sure that you are not being taken for a ride I come from Odissa and my dad has been in banks, transferred to different places. So, we have been to different places The hardware ecosystem in ChennaiHosur belt is fantastic The prices might be slightly higher than what we have in a Punjab or a Pune belt. But the quality here is good and it's a good place to start.

We have separate business models for the government and the private Last year, some bigger utility companies and municipal corporations and gated industrial complexes approached us. They want us to inspect and clean their pipelines and manholes. As more and more customer segments are getting added, we understand the market much better

While we are now solving the problems of water pipes, sewer lines and manholes, in the future, we can take this or similar technology and implement something for the oil and gas or chemical industries As we come up with more and more use cases, our business model keeps evolving. That will only help us to grow over a period of time

Swostik: I would like to discuss two broad areas When we built our first products and launched them into the market, what we truly achieved was not just the introduction of one product and its impact, but a broader understanding of how to cater to our users. We learned to develop products for them, manage the engineering process, establish manufacturing capabilities, hire team members, set up after-sales support, and create a distribution and retail network. In essence, we constructed an entire channel and devised a go-to-market strategy

How do you see the evolution of your business plan?

Moinak: The business plan that we came up in our first year was very different with what we have now It

Our first product allowed us to build this entire chain and put all the pieces in place, creating a powerful platform with interconnected components. Now, our

 As we come up with more and more use cases, our business model keeps evolving. That will only help us to grow over a period of time.

focus is on introducing more products within this channel and making new additions Once you've successfully done it once, the system, method, and everything else are known. Furthermore, we've identified a niche in which we operate, where no one else is present This clarity has led us to believe that in the broader mobility space, we can introduce approximately 15 additional products using the system we've developed That's the first lesson and evolution we've experienced.

The second realisation we've had is the importance of innovation in everything we do. For instance, every wheelchair we manufacture is customized When we started, everyone advised against customization, fearing it would hinder scalability. I am now 100% confident that we can scale because we've developed a process It took time, but we established that process, and it is now our value proposition.

Previously, wheelchair assessments were always conducted in a clinical setting, requiring the end user to visit a clinic in person We've developed a process that allows us to conduct these assessments remotely, regardless of the user's location within the country, as long as they have an internet connection and 45 minutes of their time We innovated in various aspects

People questioned how we would provide after-sales support across the country, but we've addressed that by partnering with courier services wherever needed We've introduced various elements, such as financing options. For example, we've teamed up with Zomato to offer financing at 2000 to 3000 rupees per month, making our products accessible to a broader audience So, these are the two major areas we've focused on, and I'm confident that we can leverage them to continue growing and achieve the impact we set out to make.

That's wonderful. It's not just about innovation in the products, but innovation in the processes, innovations in financing and innovations in every aspect of the business. What would be your advice to entrepreneurs, more so in the hardware space?

Moinak: I believe entrepreneurship in the hardware space, though challenging, is entering an exciting phase It's the perfect time to become an entrepreneur, especially in hardware, for three key reasons.

First, there's a substantial flow of capital into the Indian market, providing ample investment opportunities. When starting a venture, securing finances is the initial requirement, and there's a considerable amount of funding available to leverage and kickstart your business

Secondly, India's rapid growth is propelling it toward becoming a $5 trillion economy within the next three to four years A purely software-based economy won't be sufficient to achieve this $5 trillion economy; thus, hardware infrastructure development becomes essential. This transformation must be accompanied by policy changes at the government level, creating opportunities for hardware startups.

Lastly, there's a phenomenal surge of talent in India. Building a successful venture necessitates a strong team Going it alone is tough, so assembling a talented team is crucial The quality of individuals entering the workforce, including engineers and managers, has improved significantly due to changes in India's education system With more people entering the scene, the likelihood of connecting with potential co-founders, heads of R&D, or supply chain leaders is high.

These three factors combine to create a highly opportune moment for young individuals to embark on an entrepreneurial journey, especially in the hardware sector.

Swostik: What I've learned for entrepreneurs would be two things First, you need perseverance You must commit your next four or five years of your time, irrespective of the outcomes. Second, be very open. Listen to and understand trends See what's happening Do your course corrections based on the observations

What kind of support would entrepreneurs like you need to succeed?

Moinak: Financial support is very important. Being in the right place at the right time is essential You may have a brilliant idea and a pressing problem to solve, but if the venture capital environment or culture in your location isn't mature, securing funds for your business can be challenging Timing aligning with the problem statement and the surrounding business environment is crucial. Secondly, institutions like the IITM Research Park or incubation centres, which offer initial support, played a crucial role for us I believe fostering this kind of culture should not be limited to big cities but should extend to smaller cities where a significant part of the population resides Establishing ecosystems that encourage entrepreneurship and provide initial support is vital. They can offer guidance and hand-holding during the critical first one or two years for budding entrepreneurs

Thirdly, government policies play a major role A decade or so ago, startups had limited access to initiatives like 'Startup India.' These government programs, provide grants for startups that don’t have VC funding and enable them to develop their first prototypes. Expanding such policy changes at the state level across various regions in India that haven't yet experienced the benefits of entrepreneurship is crucial

Swostik: Personally, I would like to add that when we began our journey, it would have greatly helped me if I had access to someone who had already embarked

on a hardware startup journey, perhaps seven or eight years into it Meeting someone with that kind of experience would have been very helpful. We often encounter individuals well-versed in building softwarebased companies, but finding those with hardware startup experience, proved challenging. Any mentor I met, I'd ask if they knew someone who had successfully launched a hardware startup in the past 10 years Unfortunately, I could not get anyone Such a network would have been very helpful to me during that time.

What has been the most satisfying aspect of your journey? Where do you see yourself and your venture in the next five years or 10 years?

Swostik: We have an internal WhatsApp group called Testimonials Our end users keep sharing photos and tell us

what all they were able to do

with our assisted devices

We get inspired and that's what drives us. The goal is to build a large institution which surpasses what, as founders, we started- a great hardware company which solves the mobility problem in India We are proud to say that our products are designed and made in India.

Moinak: The real validation for an entrepreneur comes when you see the impact firsthand For example, our team members who inspect and clean the pipelines send us the pictures and share the joy of residents who get water in their houses after three years. As an asset management company, we have deployed our technology in 12 major Indian cities. Our vision is to go to the Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. We have landed on the moon but still practice manual scavenging in India We can help government or the utility companies with our technology so that each and every citizen of India get clean drinking water. We must also do away with manual scavenging This is possible only with the use of technology 

Dr Prabhu: IIT Madras is in a very exciting phase. We have had growth and development at breakneck pace. I am an IIT alumnus. I graduated in 2003. In these 20 years, the Institute has changed beyond recognition. Even the hostels have been transformed. But fundamentally, a lot of the change has been led by the IIT Madras Research Park. Our work exceeds international standards. If we are succeeding in things like moon missions, a lot of that has to do with places like IIT Madras, IISc, and so on. We nurture, promote and strive to deliver excellence day in and day out.

Dr Tamaswati: My journey with the startup ecosystem started 10 years back That's when I returned to India, after a long stay abroad I left the country with my parents when I was very young. When I returned to India, I came to Chennai in 2013, when the idea of an incubator from IIT Madras was floated That's where my journey began. We started very humbly. The idea was to just connect a few stakeholders within the institute and help some of our young startups which were coming out of the institute, to help them go to market and get some funding. In the first year, we had

about ten odd startups, mostly from within the IIT Madras students and faculty pool.

Now ten years down the line in 2023, we have an ecosystem, which houses close to about 350 deep-tech startups The valuation of these companies stands at 42,000 crores, which is about 5 billion US dollars. We are extremely proud of this achievement and this happened because of many factors

One, even though we started as an incubator of IIT Madras, very quickly, it went beyond the IIT ecosystem. Today, over 60% of our startups are completely of external origin and they have nothing to do with IIT But of course, they become part of the larger IIT ecosystem as well.

The kind of work that our startups do is amazing. They are floated by first time entrepreneurs Many of them are technologists and engineers, with no prior

Dr Tamaswati Ghosh, CEO, IIT Madras Incubation Cell and Dr Prabhu Rajagopal, Professor, IIT Madras in conversation with Mr Manu Iyer, Founder & Managing Partner, Bluehill Capital.

experience in the realm of business We've been able to help these entrepreneurs over the years by creating a beautiful ecosystem, where innovations are created at the backyards of their houses or within some lab of the Institute We have been able to help them create businesses where products or solutions are sold at scale and the companies become commercially successful and are able to raise massive investments

Manu: When did you both meet and how did you become a power couple?

Dr Prabhu: I'll give a very philosophical and interesting story It is said that everything came from the cosmic sound We both had an introduction through “sound” as well. We were in the same hostel in IIT. She was a year junior to me. I was in charge of sale of old goods Every year, they sell things that have accumulated The sale also helps the newcomers

We both had laid our eyes on the same speaker that was put up for sale. I laid my eyes on it and she had actually swiped it off before I could get it We got into an argument and I said it was mine She said she paid for it. That's how we met for the first time and then we met on a number of social occasions. I am interested in Bengali culture and she is Bengali Interestingly that year, I had resolved to go to some Durga Puja pandals in London and interestingly, she was there when I thought about the idea. I asked her, “Do you want to join me?” “Yes,” she said That's how it began

Any comments from you?

Dr Tamaswati: The speaker belonged to me! (laughs)

Walk us through your journey with successful startups like Planys that is building underwater rovers, Solinas that builds

automated scavenging machines and so on.

We relied very heavily on the support that we got from the larger IIT ecosystem. Our immediate fallback was the alumni network.

Dr Prabhu: Planys does inspection of marine structures, river crossings of bridges and most of the rail and road bridges of the country In Maharashtra, the company has inspected more than 100 dams Planys is also looking at data management. Historically, we started off with data gathering. But we're also looking at data management prognosis, using data and dashboards.

The journey began in the humble settings of a laboratory. I came from Imperial College whose lab saw the birth and growth of four startups So, in my manifesto at IIT Madras, I had written that I would spin out companies. For the first four or five years, there was no support But when the incubation cell was formed, there was a lot of hope in the end

I was working on the project together with Tanuj who is now the founder and CEO of Planys, where we developed a robot for inspection of submerged pipelines This was just a fun project at that time I was a mentor with Tanuj’s team at CFI (Centre for Innovation). When it was time to do his master's project, he came to me for guidance in robotics I said that I had already done a land robotics project and asked if he could try underwater robotics. “Yeah, that sounds nice,” he said. There was already a team in CFI working on underwater

When I started making this underwater robot, I did not have much funding I was working mostly on the sensor side. We managed to get some funding through IIT Madras Alumni Association. Here is where our alumni network punches way above its weight At the end of the period, we had this beautiful robot, thanks to Tanuj. He stayed back for three more months after his project and I made an industrial version of the robot I was very proudly showcasing it to everybody as Tanuj had gone to Tata Motors. One day, I had visitors from Reliance Industries, Jamnagar, and they said, “If you can make this work for oil tanks, we will fund you ”

That very evening, I called Tanuj and told him, “Look, there is a lot of interest here for the product. Why don't you just come back? Let's explore a startup in this domain ” He insisted on a team and I put together a team. That's how it was formed. It was a lab tool. But the real catalyst was the industry interest that it attracted Without the incubation cell, I don't think I would have been confident enough to do it.

Of course, that is the idea of startups that originate elsewhere too. But the fact that there is an incubation cell that provides structured support and the fact that there is some funding from industry alumni make it possible for us to realize the dream of taking technologies from lab to the field to the market

That's awesome. Planys is building cutting edge robotics and underwater use cases. I'm one of their early investors. There were very few investors back then in deep tech ideas and few Angel networks that were interested in them. Can you tell us where things were versus where things are today, just to compare and contrast?

Dr Tamaswati: It's pretty much like the startup scene in the country right now. When we started in 2013, the startups were concentrated in certain regions of the

country, that too, in very specific sectors and primarily IT Startup in those days echoed the Infosys story It was a very humble beginning not just for us, but the kind of startups that we onboarded in the 2012-2013 period

We relied very heavily on the support that we got from the larger IIT ecosystem. Our immediate fallback was the alumni network. These are individuals that were fairly accomplished in their field, not just in India, but across the globe and primarily in the US Silicon Valley which was fairly matured at that time. They wanted to give back to IIT. A lot of well-to-do serial entrepreneurs and alumni settled in the US came to visit IIT and we could leverage that network Some of the early startups that we had incubated in 2013-14 include names like Ather Energy who makes the electric two wheelers that you see on the roads MediBuddy is another example

We did get a little bit of funding from the government. We relied on that and also reached out to alumni for some early grants and donations for our startups Some of them went on to provide early angel investments as well. Today, a large number of investors are readily available. Early-stage funding is much easier for startups with a certain degree of innovation and tasting early successes The HNIs of the of the country have grown and they are less risk averse and more inclined towards startups and it is easier now to raise funds under 10 crores

But for large, significant investments, not much has changed. The requirements still remain the same. For a startup, to attract serious funding, they need to prove their product and services in the market, show it at scale and show the traction Thanks to government policies that came about from 2016, investors are more open to supporting the non-SAAS companies now.

Investors are now willing to buckle up and settle for a longer journey.

Dr Tamaswati: Yes It is a long haul The journey from the lab to market and then to scale is a very long journey. That is where this whole idea of patient capital comes in. Investors need to be patient to see the 5X or 10X increase in the valuation Now individuals, family houses and VC funds are pitching in. That ecosystem maturity is still required, so that we are able to support companies like Agnikul Cosmos, the first such spacetech startup that has come out of our ecosystem

Manu: Yes. Their journey has been absolutely fantastic.

Dr Tamaswati: At IIT, we're very fortunate because the investors in the early years started their journey with us as mentors. They involved themselves in the ecosystem first. They were committed and part of the startup journey and they played a huge role in the success of the companies. It was not just capital infusion. That trend is changing quite a bit and particularly in the early-stage funding That's when the inputs are so critical for entrepreneurs

Prabhu, you are an academic. What is your thought process —when you solve a problem, do you think about the commercialization aspect or solving the problem?

Dr Prabhu: When I solve a problem, I just focus on solving the problem. Big ticket funding comes at the ideation stage For example, the Department of Science and Technology may not be very excited about me building a robot to inspect a bridge, as opposed to coming up with a smart material that can withstand 2000 meters pressure and which can be used to build future robots There is a lot of research at the ideation

 Our mentor network now goes beyond our alumni. We leverage our industry partnerships.

stage. I think almost 30 or 40% of my work is at the fundamental level, where we can make cutting edge advances I work on meta materials and quantum sensing These are topics that may have several years of maturation cycles. Another 30 to 40% of my effort is put in translational research and the remaining is commercialization But this is something that the broader academic fraternity is also doing

support We had to identify our customers and the market We had to work on a very lean model

But unlike IIT Madras, the Institution, the Incubation Cell was focussed on commercialization right from the word go. A startup to be successful must generate cash. That is what we teach, inculcate and practice We do that, thanks to the stakeholders and a pool of mentors, who align with our way of thinking. This has led to the success of names like Ather, Agnikul, Solinas, Planys, Neomotion and many others Our mentor network now goes beyond our alumni. We leverage our industry partnerships. The diversity is very important. It's not just the technology domains that matter but even people with management background are very vital We are constantly on the lookout for individuals who want to come and spend time with our startups.

What are the few things that IITM incubation cell has got right, to put us where we are today?

Dr Tamaswati: We are now a part of our Incubation Centre Version 2 0, so to say We've been reaching out and partnering with a large number of institutes and incubators across the country and both from the private and the government sector There are incubators, probably over the last 10 years or 15 years and some of them have hardly made a mark. Not that they don't have alumni connect or government connect. Some of them have received huge amounts of grants from the government Fortunately or unfortunately, we were not that lucky in funding. We probably started with a couple of crores and had to build things from ground up.

What makes IITM so special? I think we got the fundamentals right Before we can preach and help startups to scale, we too had to experience that whole journey. IITM incubation cell and the research park pretty much grew like a startup with very little funding

Today, many aspire to be an IIT Madras Incubation Cell mentor.

Dr Tamaswati: True. We started with a couple of crores of infusion from the government. I'm fortunate to have alumni donations which helped us to provide seed funding to our startups Today, the incubation cell alone is generating on an average 10 to 12 crores a year. These are not donations or grants from any government body These are exits that we see from the little shares that we buy at the time of incubation We take a small equity at the very beginning and that's all. We don't charge them for any of the support that we provide through this journey

There was news that MediBuddy gave 14 crores to IITM.

Dr Tamaswati: Yes On the next day, I got a call from the Director's office asking for the details of the donation that we received. It was not donation but what

we got was money for our exit MediBuddy started with the mobile ECG in a lab guided by Professor Ashok Jhunjhunwala. Even after the exit, MediBuddy stays connected with our ecosystem. We are also learning from our entrepreneurs Tarun of Ather Energy has invested in younger companies That's the sort of feedback loop that has been created and the ecosystem is just growing and growing. I hope this gives us the confidence that we can go beyond the ecosystem that we have created here. We are reaching out to Tier 3 and Tier 4 towns.

of our companies have survived and many are quite successful Usually, the failure rates are extremely high There are many reasons why a company may close down. Founder issue is one of them.

When they start off something without the fundamentals being there, that leads to all kinds of downstream problems. Founder problem is a downstream issue. People come together with a certain vision in mind It is not about creating a great technology Just because I have created something great in my lab, I can’t expect it should sell and then investors should line up.

Prabhu, as part of your engagement with CFI and Nirmaan, you work with a lot of students and faculty as well. How has the attitude towards working with and for startups evolved?

Dr Prabhu: Nirmaan is the incubator and CFI is the Centre for Innovation When I first started 12 years ago as an academic at IIT Madras, it was far more difficult to motivate people to try and consider startups. Now, for the faculty, being a startup founder has become aspirational A lot of faculty members want to create startups and try to spin off their companies. Sometimes, faculties look for founders and they don't get them So, we have a beautiful program called MS in Entrepreneurship, which addresses that gap The faculties can go and list their ideas and students can join a startup. Generally, there is a culture shift and people are more open and positive to startups

The 20% of startups who decide to close shop is because they give up too quickly or they couldn't go through the hardship. They were not prepared mentally. You need perseverance and hard work. In the early years, literally the founders go without any salary as they have to pay their employees We demystify the whole idea about what startup creation is all about. A lot of the failures we've seen is a result of the misfit that has happened

How can the private sector collaborate with academia to improve the ecosystem?

You spoke a lot about the success of the ecosystem. Could you talk a little bit about the failures and areas for improvement?

Dr Tamaswati: Lately, we are encouraged by our board members to highlight failures as well. What is very unique about our ecosystem in the country or even in the world, is the success rate our incubator cell 82%

Dr Prabhu: There is a lot of mistrust between industry and academia. The academic work culture tends to be a lot more relaxed, while the industry is driven by targets and outcomes There should be mutual respect and support. The academia needs to understand and learn from industry, on delivering on targets and focusing on the immediate here and now Whereas the industry needs to appreciate that the real knock out benefit comes from these kinds of innovations that take many years to crystallise The policy has to be framed in such a way that these two different pillars of the knowledge economy work in sync and in complementarity to each other.

How have startups impacted job creation?

Dr Prbahu: Startups shouldn't be looked at primarily from the job creation perspective. Yes, startups do create a lot of jobs. But they are not going to be job engines as much as a TCS or Infosys with large projects on hand On the other hand, startups may become the engine to feed such a growth eventually. For example, if Ather is creating an excellent, optimised electric battery tomorrow, that tech could be at the heart of a futuristic electric vehicle that can be exploited by the industry.

Dr Tamaswati: I agree. It is not the responsibility of startups to generate employment for the country That should be the role of large industries and their downstream. Startups are the trendsetters. They can literally transform an industry at a pace that established industry cannot That can have a ripple effect and you can create verticals, new industries and new streams, where a large number of youth can get absorbed. Startup is a platform for the youth to create new things.

best state-of-the-art centres for this We are trying to catalyse a new cluster on semiconductors Our department has reorganized itself and I lead a new vertical. We now have seven verticals. One of these verticals is called smart manufacturing and advanced materials Our core theme is semiconductors

Is it relatively easier to get incubated today?

Dr Tamaswati: I think it's easier to get incubated and funded. But funding was never the evaluation criteria for us to incubate a startup. We don't promise any kind of funding support when a startup gets incubated You have to show it through merit and pass through a committee to get funded.

What role does foreign investment play in startups? Is that something that you ' re thinking about?

What is IIT Madras’s contribution to AI and chip design?

Dr Prabhu: Long before anybody talked about AI and data sciences, IITM was into it It created the Robert Bosch Centre for Data Science and Artificial Intelligence almost six years ago. I have been associated with the Centre since its founding. It has made both fundamental as well as translational contributions in AI. We sensitised the industry and community to the new developing field, far ahead of others. IIT Madras boasts of at least five centres focused on data sciences and AI

When nobody even thought about making semiconductors and chips in the country, the electrical engineering department at IIT Madras had some of the

Dr Prabhu: For early-stage funding, there is enough wealth in the country Mid to large scale funding is still foreign in its origin. Foreign capital plays a role is VC and PE stages. Even ticket sizes between 10 and 50 crores tend to be dominated by funds that are offshore based. As a country, we must make sure that more capital is available in that segment locally, so that we can try out original ideas that benefit us, rather than ideas that are working elsewhere, which is what these foreign funds tend to typically support.

Dr Tamaswati: Foreign funds come with its downside as well, because many times startups are influenced to leave or relocate and set up somewhere else That's not good for the country. More local funding groups are required within the country. Taxation policy is the other major reason why many times startups shift their base

Ms Geetanjali Master: We all understand that the whole gender socialisation, gender inequities or inequalities are created over a lifecycle They start before our birth and there are different stages of the life cycle where we feel that influence and which often results in negative outcomes for girls and for women At UNICEF, we understand that every dimension of life is impacted by gender equality or inequalities.

We also understand that there are agents that aid stereotypical representation of and stereotypical behaviors towards girls and women. The families, communities, traditions, cultures and norms and how we've grown up influence us in a big way To study the representation of girls and women through media and in advertising, we partnered with the International Advertising Association-India Chapter.

We started in 2019, with evidence, for UNICEF globally We researched with the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media and got very interesting insights.

Women are shown more in a living room or in the home space while the men are shown in office, outdoors and sporting events A study on gender bias and inclusion in the Indian advertising industry. The discussion was moderated by Ms Megha Tata, CEO, Cosmos Maya & Co‐chairperson, Women Empowerment Committee, India Chapter of IAA

The Findings:

One of the pieces that came through very clearly was that there is an equal representation of male and female characters. But women are typically seen in home care, fashion, corporates and airlines but underrepresented in banking, finance, media, tourism and sports. While women have a strong presence in advertising, they're usually seen selling or being associated with certain types of products The female characters are more likely to be shown as attractive A woman is shown as a subservient wife or pushy aunt. Men are seen to control the conversation and lead in paid occupations Leadership is more associated with men than intrepid women Once in a while, we see ads showing a father with the child but they are always portrayed in a fun space. The woman always is shown as doing the core parenting Women are shown more in a living room or in the home space while the men are shown in office, outdoors and sporting events. I'm not saying women are not shown in these spaces But if you compare it, there is a difference

Ms Megha Tata: What do you feel about the voice of change and the need for it today?

Mr Chockalingam: This study mirrors what we as creators think, consciously or unconsciously When I see the mirror, I don’t like the image that was there. But knowingly and unknowingly, I have contributed to a lot of messaging in that bias and stereotypes How do we change that image? First, you have to change yourself. I have to start changing my thinking before I can start influencing others

I work for an ad agency I'm a writer The first thing in the morning, I am stuck with a lot of briefs that are pending, beyond deadlines. We are trying to crack a headline, an ad and stuff like that Once that's done, the creative director approves it Then my client servicing team approves it. And finally, we take it to the client. If we get the ad approved, we release it. I have an agenda and my agenda is to get the ad out The client has got a different agenda He wants sales My boss or the branches will be judging how much billing I'm going to

 The woman always is shown as doing the core parenting.

Women are shown more in a living room or in the home space while the men are shown in office, outdoors and sporting events.

make out of it All the agendas are different So how do we fit this agenda of voice of change? With all the personal agendas that we have, it is a challenge.

I know it's not an easy task, for sure. But that is where I think these dialogues will help us to consciously approach these conversations and maybe some change can happen.

Ms Navneet Virk: I like the voice of change, because one voice is going to nudge a lot of other voices to speak up. In advertising, in the last few years, we have

seen brands who have the courage to push the boundary, like Tanishq We should put together a checklist of what we can do in our day to day lives

As we go to design our next campaign, what are the things that we should be conscious of? The first thing that comes to mind is the narrative itself How well our narrative resonates with the consumer that we're talking to is really important. We must dig deep to get insights and to truly understand all the layers because our lives are so complex For women who step out into new roles, there's a lot of complexity in what they want to do and in their relationships. What are their dreams and disappointments? We must get that in the story and the messaging We must show women in an empowered way whether it's a personal care ad or a beauty ad or whatever.

Women now want to be themselves. They don't want to be constantly shown as how they walk, how they talk, how they do their hair and how they dress. They just want to have the self-confidence to go out and be themselves It's important that when we tell our stories, we show our women in that way

Casting for advertisements is always stressful.

There are times I'm in a room with ten gentlemen, including the client and agency representatives We need to think about the model much before the casting happens. Marketing is a very expensive affair. Companies want to reach out to maximum number of people and they want maximum number of consumers to relate to the ad. When you want relatability, you want to cast the woman in a traditional role, because that's probably her real life But when it comes to how she looks, you show a glamorised version of the person. In our conversation, the struggle is between being authentic and being glamorous

There are innumerable casting sessions that I've sat through where people have said that ‘her skin is too dark’ or ‘her hair is too curly’ or ‘her smile is too coming ’ Also, no research says that humour is a male domain It is a marker of self-confidence and only if you have confidence, you can crack a joke and dare to laugh out loud. Women are inherently pretty funny. I just wish that all of us become mindful of this and make sure that we integrate humour into our storytelling because it is so disarming, it softens our message, it lightens everything and it shows that you are confident in your own skin That's something that we should bring in

Mr Kumarappan AL: We cannot see the ad in isolation. It is a piece of the society and it is a mirror of what the reality is out there It can either be a reality or an aspiration Majority of the ads, I think, will be reality (say 80%) and the rest will be based on aspiration. The ad has to connect with the society and it has to be relevant That is the baseline Our Bharath culture has got a lot of good things We never talk of Shiva alone or Shakthi alone but we always choose Shiva Shakti and Ardhanarishwara. That is the way we see life. It is always 50:50 Shiva is the body and Shakti is the soul. If we are able to leverage that, we will be able to

 When you want relatability, you want to cast the woman in a traditional role, because that's probably her real life. But when it comes to how she looks, you show a glamorised version of the person.

~ Ms Navneet Virk

do a better job as professionals and make better advertisements

Ms Latha Menon: We came into the field of advertising where not many women were there. We've seen the role of women changing as we have grown in the field and gone up to higher positions We are trying to create changes. We're all talking about advertisement. But I'd like to talk about the world in general. The way men and women were exposed to while they grew up is constantly reflected in advertising In 1995, there was the UN World Conference for Women in Beijing in which they said that the status of a nation is very closely tied to the status of its female citizens If you do not treat your female citizens well, it reflects in the kind of work you do or the kind of economy that develops.

We have seen great progress. Maternal mortality is reduced We see parity in primary school enrollment between boys and girls But we also have many perennial evils. We have sexual harassment, sex trafficking and domestic violence. In America, we now have a ban on abortions The man, woman ratio is getting skewed. These have to be corrected. If we want to create change in a larger level, in a smaller level too, it

they don't like about a particular product They're able to come out and say why they don't like it and why they find it objectionable. How many ads keep hitting at you to be thinner, slimmer, fairer, whiter and be more feminine!

has to be changed I'm talking about the household

In the house, how is a woman treated? As a subordinate or is she really given equal status? They say that charity begins at home. So, change should begin at home. People who look at women as inferiors tend to engage in political violence

There are commercials, where women who are older are seen. We would also like to see underrepresented voices, which is what is becoming interesting now in advertising As more women are coming into the workforce, we're able to make changes and we're able to see through a new lens. Social media, for all its faults, has been a great channel for women to express what

Mr Srinivasan K Swamy: It is no longer possible to get away with inequal treatment to women in our communication. There's more and more of advertiser awareness Most large companies are very conscious, thankfully There are a few small entrepreneurs, monotone companies who want to be sexist and want to portray different women in a demeaning manner. But hopefully, those small tribes, will vanish in the next few years.

How has the creative changed over the years?

Mr Chokalingam: A lot of unlearning has to happen first. Let me give a simple example. In a movie today, when there is a hero entry, there is a song that happens. Just imagine any song in your mind when a heroine enters. We need to start thinking differently. This is happening now but a lot more can be done. In the advertising agencies, I had a lot of women bosses Still,

 It is no longer possible to get away with inequal treatment to women in our communication. There's more and more of advertiser awareness.

~ Mr Srinivasan K Swamy

~ Ms Navneet Virk

knowingly or unknowingly, we had biases and serotypes. Change needs a collective effort.

Ms Megha Tata: Yes We need to be gender agnostic to do the conversation When we are casting, we must see who's right for that role, rather than identifying how that individual should be. Latha. You have been a content creator and you play a big role in how the narrative can be shifted How can we make our content creators of our country to be more inclusive and how can we shift their mindset from mere instruction to inclusion?

Ms Latha Menon: I work with Hatsun Agro products

From 2010, we've done an amazing campaign for Arokya milk, which is ‘goodness of love from the villages ’ When we started the campaign, they wanted me to do real life stories of dairy farmers We were moving into a different space called docummercials. I was given about 50 farms. I had to go searching and travelling and moving around with farmers I have to make them perform. They're not actors. Our farming has become a very family driven occupation and the family must be together to do the farming It was interesting because I'm looking across different people They're not conventionally good looking. I'm just looking at how harmonious the family is.

I was moving around with a camera and I asked my client, “Are you serious? It's not going to look like a commercial, it is going to look very ordinary.” He said, “Okay, I'm ready to release it.” The client was willing to

make the change He doesn't mind any story I tell

The change happened because the client was open to that change. I hear quite often from many stakeholders in the industry saying that, sometimes they go with a creative idea, which takes away the biases, but the client says, ‘No, I need to hit my sales targets. Stick to the brief and give me what I want them to know. Don't be too intellectual about it.’ In that context, how can we bring in some bit of accountability in the clients’ minds?

Mr Kumarappan AL: I come from TAFE which is led by a woman business leader. 40% of our workforce are women Whether it is dairy farming or agriculture, women play a lead role That they don't get the recognition is sad. Whether it is rice or fruits or cereals, 80% contribution is from the women. They are the actual farmers Majority of the men do little bit of supervising task. But landholding ownership is mostly with the men. Hardly 13 to 15% are owned by women. Earlier it was only 3% to 4% I think by the next decade, we expect that to come to a level of 50:50

Can the social medium be used in a better way to bring about the change?

Ms Navneet Virk: Yes, absolutely. More women are on social media than men There are differences between platforms YouTube was more male There are more women on Instagram and Facebook. We did a campaign a few months ago on women's day for one of our client’s audience segments It was based on a very simple idea that outside the house, you only see the man's name. We made a film on that theme, which ran only digitally On Instagram, we had 21 million views in 10 days There was a lot of sharing and there were many comments as we left it open for comments. Then men started trolling. They said that we are ruining the culture The fact is, it created lots conversations and a great impact 



More women are on social media than men. There are differences between platforms.

Ms Vidya Bala: There are many factors that work in our favour, but inflation is a worrying sign. People are buying like there's no tomorrow. There is talk of premiumisation happening. People buy expensive goods, cars, and two-wheelers. But at some level, we are concerned if the market is overvalued. So, my first question to the panellists is: What is your perception of overvaluation and by those metrics, whether the market is overvalued today?

Mr Sunil Subramaniam: As an asset manager, I don't have the luxury of thinking if the market is overvalued or not. Why do I say that? Because if I feel the market is overvalued, I should return my money back to the investors I cannot take equity money and put it in debt I cannot take the debt money and put it in fixed deposits. An investor who feels the market is overvalued will shift out of the overvalued market and go But as a fund manager, I do not have that luxury. But to answer that question, I think that valuation is a very relative term. Number two, investor returns are not correlated to valuations They are made from two separate aspectsthe cost of production of a commodity and the price the market is willing to pay for the commodity. Stocks are

MMA and KAS in association with Policy Matters and TIA organised a panel discussion on the stock market conditions. The panellists were: Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman, Managing Director & Head Avendus Spark Institutional Equities, Chennai; Mr Sunil Subramaniam, Managing Director Sundaram Asset Management Company Ltd and Mr Nishit Master, Fund Manager Axis Securities Limited The discussions were moderated by Ms Vidya Bala, Founding Partner & Head ‐ Research & Product, PrimeInvestor in

nothing but a commodity If you take potatoes as a commodity, there are a number of input costs. 20 rupees may be the cost of producing the potato, but does the market give him 20 rupees always? It either gives him 20 rupees or gives him 100 rupees

The cost of production is the EPS growth. The market value is the fundamental discounting of future cash flows of companies Does the market respect those fundamentals? Not necessarily It depends on demand and supply for that commodity, whether there is a drought or a flood or whether competitors are sowing potatoes in their field Indian stocks are in a situation where our fate is not in our hands but with FIIs They own anywhere between 35 to 40% of the free float stock of our capital markets. For them, instead of putting money in a losing country like the US or Brazil, India is a better alternative, regardless of what our EPS growth is, as long as it's better than their return expectations. They put money in India when the cost of borrowing from the advanced countries is low, when the chance of

rupee depreciating vis-à-vis those countries is low, and when the cost of oil is trending down, because we import 83% of our oil requirements.

I work with a three to five-year outlook. To me, the market valuations that we all refer to are one year forward. But I am looking at the returns from my investment three years forward. One year forward, it might appear to be over-expensive because companies may be investing in capex In three-years’ time, those capital expenditures would pay off. It's worth investing in that. So, for me, it's the average of the FY 27 to FY 30 EPS of that company, which drives my decision on whether that stock is overvalued or not

The next aspect is, the market is equal to nifty is equal to Sensex in people's minds. For me, the market is a weighted average of the nifty plus the BSE mid-cap index, plus the BSE small-cap index It's the overall weighted average, three to five-year forward PE of the stocks in my portfolio, which decides my view on

whether a stock is overvalued

What are the signs for you that there is a bubble, and what would you do in such times?

Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman: The market now is enigmatic The long-term picture is very attractive I've never seen corporate balance sheets as healthy as they are today. They have extremely low levels of debt and focus on capacity utilization and capacity expansion. I was in Gujarat last week and met about 30 small and medium enterprises Each one of them told me that they are looking to increase capacity. These are in textiles, chemicals, and related ancillaries. They are looking at long-term trends like demography, urbanisation, the government's priorities on the China plus one strategy and PLI. The long-term view on India's potential earnings growth looks very healthy



But what options do you

have as investors now? If I look at the macro setup, most of the major economies are already in recession. The US is slated to be in recession probably next year.

My short-term view is mixed. Over the next one year or 18 months, I'm not comfortable I see consumption moderating For the last 10 years, from 2010 to 2020, there was no capex cycle in India. The exports grew more or less at the same pace and didn't expand dramatically, but the economy was led by consumption Post-COVID, the way our consumption is recovering is not looking healthy. I'll give you some examples. Two-wheeler sales of FY 23 are below FY19 sales Categories like white goods, consumer durables, kitchen appliances, liquor I can name 10 consumer categories where the growth is just not adequate enough. 80% of our consumption is mass consumption, and that's not growing Sale of passenger cars priced below seven lakhs in the period FY18 to FY23 has declined, but cars priced above seven lakhs have grown 50%. We call it K-shaped. Consumption in apparels, watches, and liquor is just not growing What makes me wary is earnings moderation and growth moderation.

On the macro side, IT is not hiring, and for three consecutive quarters, the IT sector has shed jobs in cities like Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Pune, and NCR. It is a very important driver of jobs and consumption. Second, the exports have declined Rural inflation has been more than rural wages So, the consumer is

prioritizing spending on something else and not on discretionary consumption In the last six months, we saw a phenomenon where volume growth has not kept pace, but commodity prices cooled off, and that led to margin expansion Is it sustainable? I can’t predict, but what I am comfortable with is the capex cycle.

India’s Promising Growth

Mr Nishit Master: If you just plainly look at valuations, on one year forward multiples on a PE basis, we will be at around 18 times. The historical average in the last 15 to 17 years is around 16 times We are close to one standard deviation above average But if I look at it from a different multiple, which is price to book value basis, we would be at around 2.7 times of one year forward. The historical average for the last 15 years is 2 6 times So, we are not much different than the last 15-17 years average. One more parameter, which we typically use, is the BEER ratio, which is the bond yield to equity earnings yield Indian markets typically have performed at around 1.2 times. We are currently at 1.35 times. It probably means that bonds are slightly more attractive in valuation than equities

But what options do you have as investors now? If I look at the macro setup, most of the major economies are already in recession. The US is slated to be in recession probably next year China’s revival from Covid has not happened with a big bang as expected We are looking at an anaemic growth even from China. So, for global investors, there are hardly a few sizeable markets where they

can invest and which are expected to grow

The RBI, The World Bank, IMF, and everyone say that India is expected to grow by more than 6%. No major economy is expected to grow upwards of 6%. That's why Indian markets are at a premium We might be slightly overvalued. But I think to some extent, there are factors which support these overvalued markets of India.

That does not mean that we might not have corrections That is part and parcel of equity markets Most likely, the trigger could be something happening outside India rather than in India. From an election perspective, as long as the market factors in stability of policy from the government, then whoever is in the government doesn't matter to the market. We believe that with the momentum which we've seen in the last few years, policies will be difficult for any new government to change. The pace can slow down, but it cannot be reversed. The corporate leverage as well as the banking system looks very healthy Many Indian corporates don't require capital to grow for the next few years, though they are still looking at 16 to 17% growth.

Ms Vidya Bala: We need to keep in mind the changing composition of the Nifty 50 index Over the past decade and a half, when we speak of valuations of 15 to 18 times, the index had very asset-heavy and debt-laden companies. These companies typically have never commanded high valuations In the recent decade or so, the composition is dominated by companies that are asset-light, have very clean balance sheets, and are cashrich (like FMCGs) Perhaps, this may be a reason why the market has been offering 20 to 22 times valuations for a long while now.

How much you put in equity depends on your risk profile Having done that, valuations don't matter when you choose equities Your allocation to equity should be consistent, regardless of where the current market is pricing those earnings.

Don’t Rely on Averages

Where would you look beyond the traditional index returning sectors?

Mr Sunil Subramaniam: As an individual investor, I ignore valuations Why do I say that? The purpose of investing is to create long-term wealth. Long-term wealth creation happens when you beat inflation. India is a 7% inflation land, on an average Equity is the only consistent asset class that can beat inflation. Your asset allocation is based on your risk profile. But you should always use equity as your wealth-generating asset class

The average is the worst possible statistic in man's history. It's like saying that the river Cauvery is on an average five feet deep and hence, I will take the risk of walking across the Cauvery. It is a fact that somewhere, its 10 feet and somewhere, it is three feet deep. You can select, within that average, that which is going to deliver returns at any market valuation You can pick those stocks or sectors or indices, which can deliver to you better. When you look at valuations, see what is the previous peak valuation? What were the conditions prevalent at that point? In my investment horizon, is there a chance that would happen? People use standard deviation and all that. In December 2017 and October 21, the market was trading at more than two standard deviations away from the mean. The conditions prevailing then were a demand for Indian stocks. India as a market will deserve a premium from a foreign investor That premium may vary up and down But it is

 As an individual investor, I ignore valuations. Why do I say that? The purpose of investing is to create long‐term wealth.

going to deliver you the returns as an Indian investor So, ignore valuations

If you want to go outside the index, select your portfolio equally across large cap, mid cap, and small cap When you do any sector allocation, look domestic rather than outside, because the world is in a slowdown and India is much better. Just to make my point about valuation, I want to share four data points on why valuation doesn't translate into returns

In the last four calendar years since 2019, the earnings of the Nifty in 2019 was 4%, and the market delivered 12%. In 2020, it was minus 4.7%, and the market delivered 14 9% In the next calendar year, it was 16.8%, and the market delivered 24.1%. In the next year 2022, the market delivered 34.9% EPS growth and the market return was only 4% Remember the market is discounting the future and not the present

I'll end up with another statistic. Of all the last 20 years, if you had invested in the market peaks and stayed invested for one year, three years, or five years, your chances of beating 7% inflation return have been 60% plus. That means you have three out of five chances of beating inflation, even at the peak of the market.

So, my respectful submission is, please ignore valuations because they represent an average of everybody's thinking. Each individual fund manager or person is not investing in the average; he's investing based on his own read of that company, the sector, the stock, and the timeframe of the future So have your asset allocation in place. Keep it to a broad market. Newspaper headlines may be about Nifty, but your investment is in mutual funds and it is not about the Nifty. So, diversify across the cap curve and ignore what the public speak about valuations.

Is it time to take a different view of how we look at the manufacturing segment?

Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman: Absolutely yes Why have Air India and Indigo each ordered 500 aircrafts? The reason is not demand but it is pre-emptive or predatory strategy. They want to make it a duopoly. The same thing is happening in telecom It used to be a 10 to 15 player market. In the last ten years, it has become a three or four player market. Consolidation of market shares has resulted in a very unique competitive scenario I can draw this example for even 20 sectors including pipes, cables, and property. The number of property developers post RERA implementation has come down in each city. The top three or four players in each sector have disproportionately gained market share, and to keep their market share intact for the next decade, they are planning capex. Their balance sheets are in great shape. Their capacity utilisations are in the mid-70s to 80s in some companies.

The capex takes time. It takes three years to get the new capacities in place. The previous cycle was power sector and infrastructure dominated This time, it's going to be 30 sectors including small sectors like chemicals. Many relatively lesser sized sectors are seeing capex. All the cell phones are now increasingly manufactured in India If there is one sector where there is phenomenal traction on the ground, it is the electronics sector and there’s no better place to do this than Chennai. Foxconn employs 50,000 people in their manufacturing locations here They're planning to add up and maybe even double their capacity. The environmental clearances granted are up by five times.

What is different this time is that it's not going to be debt-funded Everyone burnt their hands with debts This time, it's going to be more equity funded and internal accruals. It's going to be MNC-led capex. Many MNCs I

met are planning capex in India They are increasing their expansion in India The capex cycle, in my expectations, will be there for at least the next three to five years. What they have to look at is not one year forward price to earnings, or EBITDA or any of these multiples It's going to be a very long and a strong growth cycle. That's our assessment.

Ms Vidya Bala: True. Companies like Bharat Forge are looking at digital solutions Carborundum Universal, a local company, has been quietly acquiring companies and it has completely changed the way it works. A decade ago, it bought some commodity-based companies and it was valued like a commodity company That has changed. I'm just giving illustrations of how transition in the manufacturing space is happening and a disclaimer- these are not any recommendations for buying Electronics is undergoing a significant leapfrog thanks to various government regulations as well. The market has valued all these positives and yet, the valuations in this sector are quite intriguing Sometimes you don't even know how you can afford 60 to 70 times to these companies. Companies like MNCs are constantly overvalued So how do you then go about evaluating them?

Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman: For some of the capital goods companies, the asset turns are large. Their margin profile has changed Their indigenization of raw material procurement has dramatically changed Their sourcing from the parent has come down, and their exports to the parent are rising. I find very strong balance sheets. Their earnings growth, having potential non-linearity gives me confidence that even though the stocks have doubled or tripled, they are not at the peak of their cycle earnings.

Ms Vidya Bala: The earnings potential may not always be reflected in the price to earnings It's something that we need to understand for various reasons One, the kind

of transition the sector might itself be undergoing and the capex cycle The second thing that is that we all love to make our money from the small cap sector. We just have 100 companies above 50,000 crores.

How does a retail investor go about in any market, looking for this opportunity in small cap?

Mr Nishit Master: Investing in small caps has its own pitfalls. Information available in the market is far lower than what is available for the Infosys or the TCS of the world Apart from that, management quality, a lot of times, is suspect. I believe a lot of companies will move from 5000 crores to 50,000 crore market cap, but there still will be a small cap, because the larger companies would have moved up significantly

When I started my investing career, the small caps we used to talk about was 300 crore to 500 crore market cap companies Now, that itself has moved to 5000 crore market cap companies, which means it's already a 10bagger. The most important thing for me when I look at small cap is- is it addressing a market which is big enough to grow in the future? If the company is in a very niche space, which is a very small area, the growth cannot be big because the company cannot be bigger

 The earnings potential may not always be reflected in the price to earnings. It's something that we need to understand for various reasons.

than the industry it is in

The second is management quality and management's focus on cash flows. The single most important reason why companies have failed in India is a lack of focus on cash flows Promoters focus on growth and revenue but once you stop focusing on cash flows, everything goes for a toss. There are companies which grew revenues multifold by supplying to the government. But the receivables got stuck Obviously, because of working capital problems, they started defaulting and got sold in NCLT for a pittance. I also believe that when I invest in a small cap company, the promoter needs to have a significant amount of skin in the game If the promoter himself owns 10 to 15% of the company, then I don't think he has enough skin in the game.

You must pick up companies which have an ability to generate value either through cost optimization or process innovation. Those companies have a strategy to win in the market. Now, small cap companies have also become as efficient as large cap companies in utilizing the scarce resource Though we manage diversified equity portfolios, a significant part of our portfolios is small cap driven.

the long-term approach of investing, but you also get the rupee cost averaging

How does one go about booking profits at the right time in small caps?

Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman: As a fund house, we have never taken a call whether money should be deployed in large caps or mid-caps or small caps There are badly managed large caps and extremely well-managed small caps. When it comes to small cap investing, what we recommend is evaluating the management and not valuations. Look at governance capability and credibility.

In the next 12 to 18 months, how do you think the markets will move-upward, downward, or sideways?

Mr Sunil Subramaniam: In the next 12 to 18 months, you have semi-finals and a final Then you have a US election. A reasonable expectation is of low double-digit return from the broader equity markets.

Mr Ganeshram Jayaraman: I don't make predictions, but I'm not a buyer at these market levels I'll wait for a 10% correction before I buy.

If a small cap fund stops inflows, does that mean that the fund is wary?

Mr Sunil Subramaniam: The reason a small cap fund stops inflows is because they would have taken exposure to more than 100 plus stocks already and finding new investable opportunities beyond those is restricted because in small cap, there's a regulation that you can’t take more than 10% of one stock. Also, there's a regulation on how much of that free float you can own Each fund manager has a different perspective I would recommend everybody to look at SIP as the best way to enter a small cap, because not only do you benefit from

Mr Nishit Master: I continue to be constructive on the market. I believe low-teens are what one can look at in markets In between, you might have a 5-7% correction. There will be pockets which can deliver far higher returns than the normal market returns.

Ms Vidya Bala: As far as I'm concerned, I ruthlessly go about booking profits when I see money I do not look back as I have the luxury to do it and it's my personal portfolio. I keep a list of stocks, put them in a basket, and keep observing them My experience has been that in election years, big opportunities have come

Mr Mahalingam: Mr Mahadevan. You revolutionised eating out in Madras. You built your own brands and literally gave us our daily bread. That bread tasted very different from the bread we ever had before. You introduced us to tastes and flavours and cuisines which were of international standard. Some of those cuisines existed in Madras then but you took us to a level that we had not experienced before. Tell us about the early days and your journey.

Before I started my restaurant business, I was a distributor of Bombay Oil Industry. I was born in the small town of Udumalpet, near Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu I came to Chennai in the eighties with just 380 rupees in hand. I came to the Central Station. It was cold and I wanted to buy a coffee. It cost three rupees. I had no job and knew no one in Chennai So, I decided not to spend on coffee

I had been given an address by my brother to go and stay a room in RK Lodge where his friend stayed. Unfortunately, that room was locked and for three days, the lodge owner allowed me to sleep in the veranda I know how it's to be homeless.

Mr M Mahadevan, Founder, B&M Hot Breads Pvt Ltd , opens up on his entrepreneurial journey and the people who patronized his restaurants He was at MMA to take part in a freewheeling conversation with Mr K Mahalingam, President, MMA & Partner/ Director, TSM Group of Companies

I believe that my mother's blessing was always with me Within a week of my coming to Chennai, I got a job in AM Jain College as a lecturer, with a salary of Rs 310 per month. I used to read a lot. Arthur Hailey's book ‘Hotel’ inspired me and I strongly felt that I must work in a hotel In the day time, I taught and, in the evening, I worked as a lobby manager in Sudarshan Hotel, which is now called Ambassador Pallava.

As the night time manager, I had to come at six o'clock and handle the bar I got a stipend of Rs 250 from the hotel While managing the bar, a gentleman would come from Paris Corner regularly, order two scotch and one beer and just like that spend Rs 600 every day That was more than what I got in a month, in spite of my moonlighting. This man was not a tech guy or somebody who made semiconductors or things like that All he did was to collect old plastic slippers, melt them and make plastic buckets That triggered me to become an entrepreneur, so that I could make more money.

How did Tic Tac happen?

When I worked in the hotel, Mr Ali Sayed used to come there as a customer My growth is mainly based on networking and connecting people. If I go on a flight, I'll return with my pocket full of visiting cards.

Ali Sayed was running Tic Tac restaurant and selling north Indian food I had become a friend of a Chinese cook and so, I proposed Mr Ali Sayed if we could open a small outlet in his unit and sell Chinese food in the evenings He agreed I could not offer my Chinese cook any salary So, I made him a partner in the venture I invested all my savings made till then into that Rs 60,000.

days was very different from what it is now Hussain became our regular customer. He used to order sweet corn chicken soup. A few buildings away, Kakani towers was coming up Mr Ramesh Reddy who was our customer at Tic Tac and who was constructing the building liked my enthusiasm and networking skills. He proposed to me that I can open a much bigger, airconditioned restaurant with good ambience in Kakani towers and he offered me 30% share, without any investment from my part. I grabbed that offer and that is how I started Cascade restaurant there

When did the famous painter MF Hussain come to Tic Tac?

Within two weeks of our opening the Chinese outlet at Tic Tac, MF Hussain came there and he liked our food We were serving in the car, as parking the car on the road was very easy then. Nungambakkam those

Tell us about your introduction to Parameshwar Godrej.

When MF Hussain displayed his paintings, Ms Parameshwar Godrej would visit them and she was a fan of his paintings. Through Mr Hussain, I could get connected with Ms Parameshwar Godrej. She did the interiors for our Cascade restaurant Just opposite was the Golden Dragon restaurant in the Taj which had red and green colour theme. So, to be different, I went for

 Hot Breads became a big success thanks to my different way of thinking. When everybody was doing bread in the factory. I brought the machine, put it in front of the customer...

blue and white interiors. The furniture was different. I brought in a chef from Malaysia. We didn't sell only Chinese but sold Oriental We offered Japanese food because we wanted it to be different from the dragon in front of me. A little fire from there, I would have got burnt out. I have to have my own identity. This is where thinking differently has helped me

When I went to Singapore, I went to a bakery and was impressed by the superior quality of the bread I asked the baker how they were able to make such silken bread. He gave me 5 gms of the improver they used and said the quality was because of that improver I took that with me, went to Bangalore and met Ms Kiran Mazumdar of Biocon. The year was 1989 and she was not a big-time person then I asked her if she could replicate that improver Within a month, she developed and gave it to me and that is the improver we are using today. That is one of our success factors.

How did Hot Breads happen?

When I was running Cascade, I knew that I had to match Golden Dragon to be competitive I had to give value to the customer. I could not import the ingredients directly. So my chefs and I would visit Singapore and on return, we would carry back some sauces At that time, we had bakeries in Chennai like the Cakes and Bakes, McRennet, Bosotto Brothers and Spencers. I wanted to start a bakery in Chennai but all my six partners did not like the idea They said bread is for sick people and I was taking a big risk, misguided by the success of Cascade. I wanted to make curry buns. In the eighties, Mr Parameshwar gave me the franchise for Hot Bread and I bought the machinery

Hot Breads became a big success thanks to my different way of thinking When everybody was doing bread in the factory. I brought the machine, put it in front of the customer and told them we were making breads in front of the people We opened in New Jersey and New York We opened in Paris It's 24 years and still my Heart Breads bakery in Paris is flying high. I'm not boasting but again I would like to highlight how I thought differently there I took a croissant, filled it with chicken tikka masala and the gave the Frenchman his own croissant with my own filling. It became a hit.

We are told many celebrities visited your outlets.

Yes. Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani, Mrs Kokilaben, Ms Sridevi and many other celebrities had come to our outlets I think it was because we were different, affordable and offered quality. What are your proud moments?

I recall the day I landed in Chennai for the first time in the Central Station with 380 rupees in hand and unable to buy even a cup of coffee, on a cold morning. But many years later, in that same Central Station, I opened Planet Yumm in the food court and it sold

Tell us about meeting Kiran Mazumdar.

18,000 cups of coffee a day The US Embassy called me one day and said a team of Starbucks people have come 5 from Seattle and 2 from Hong Kong and they wanted to know the magic behind my selling of 18,000 cups of coffee a day You need not be an Ambani or Adani to make an impact but you can be a simple Mahadevan. I can proudly say that I have created 5000 jobs in my journey of 40 years.

What was that magic behind selling 18,000 cups of coffee?

In Central Station, I took the space as a food court operator through a 2-part tender (Technical and Commercial) I took 1300 square foot space This is where you realise why brands and quality matter in business. Because, the next door was 13,000 square feet space occupied by the VLR (vegetarian light refreshment) shop run by railways Mine was one-tenth of it. We were doing a sale of 11 to 12 lakhs a day whereas they were doing a sale of Rs 30,000 to 40,000 a day

You built a string of pearls bringing brands such as Haveli, Wangs Kitchen, Copper Chimney, Benjarong. Your experience with brands?

Brands do matter. When Southern Railway came up with a tender for operating a food court in Central Station, they had put a condition that the food court operator must have experience in operating a food court As I was already operating a food court, I was technically qualified in the technical bid and I was also successful in the commercial bid. I was given 1300 sqft space and they had allowed me 40 feet height. I created a mezzanine floor and rented it out for Saravana Bhavan, which is a big brand

What is your advice to young entrepreneurs?

When you start a business, there are two things which you always need - commitment and focus You also need to dream big. My mother and father were simple people in Udumalpet which is not even a district headquarters I always had big dreams Once I started my business in Chennai, my next canvas was Dubai. When I went to Dubai, I wanted to go to Paris. When I went to Paris, I looked for the biggest canvas of New York We opened three restaurants in New York There is nothing wrong in dreaming big but you have to engage the gear of making that dream happen. You must work hard, have focus and do your home work thoroughly

A2B was coming up in Chennai and asked them to open a sweet stall there, paying me a rent of Rs 65,000 per month Mr Srinivasan of A2B said that it was a very high amount as he thought nobody would buy sweets in the railway station. My instincts told me that it is customary for Indians to buy sweets whenever we travel and meet our family members or friends A2B instead suggested that they would offer me 10% of the sales as rentals every month and I agreed. The first day’s sales were 1 5 lakhs and in the first month, they paid me a rental of 5 5 lakhs I always do my calculations and it is very important. We are running canteens through Sangeeta. A 450-gm meal is priced at Rs 90 and I have worked out the costing for each and every item and

 When you start a business, there are two things which you always need ‐ commitment and focus. You also need to dream big.

know that it costs Rs 44 per meal. It is very important that you get your maths right

down a restaurant in Singapore, we did not have funds even to buy the flight ticket for the chef We borrowed and bought his ticket.

How did you survive the 2008 meltdown in the US?

When the 2008 meltdown happened, we were hit in two ways in the US. Costs were going up and people were not getting their salaries. The neighbouring bakeries increased the price of sandwich from $3 8 to $4.5. But we maintained the price and also added one more layer in our sandwich. That triggered many customers to come to us, from the nearby bakeries

How was your Dubai experience?

When I wanted to go abroad, I first wanted to try out in Dubai We opened a bakery in Dubai It closed down in the third month because of lack of parking space and the rules there did not permit me to operate without parking facility I did not wind up and come I was like a rat in a box I had 28 boys with me I saw a supermarket coming up. I approached them and asked them for 600 sqft space, where my boys would make breads in front of the customers and sell them I offered 10% of the sales as their returns. They agreed. It became very successful.

Can you talk about your connection with Saravana Bhavan?

Mr Rajagopal (Annachi) of Saravana Bhavan was my very good friend He died in 2018 I partnered with Saravana Bhavan till 2018 and invested in their business. After Annachi’s demise, I stopped investing. I am not looking into his personal life But what I learnt from him was his passion for quality and the way he treated his employees. My driver is with me for 30 years. My chef at Benjarong is with us for 23 years.

What happened during Covid?

In Covid, we took a lot of beating and had to shut down many outlets, as we can’t afford to keep throwing money on uneconomical outlets We had to shut down 10 Saravana Bhavan outlets in Singapore As investors in other brands, when it is not feasible to run a business, we tell the operating partners that we are pulling out and leave the option of running the business to them. Most often, they shut down as it is expensive to maintain the establishment. In fact, when we shut

When I had Hot Bread in Dubai, I used to visit many south Indian restaurants in Dubai and the quality of food was not good. I convinced Annachi to open an outlet in Dubai. When he opened after a lot of hesitation, it became a big success In fact, it was the first of their overseas outlets Apart from Saravana Bhavan, I had taken other Indian brands including Anjappar, Kailash Parbat, Cream Centre and Calicut Paragon abroad

You received an award from the then PM Mr Vajpayee.

 When I had Hot Bread in Dubai, I used to visit many south Indian restaurants in Dubai and the quality of food was not good. I convinced Annachi to open an outlet in Dubai.

He gave me an award for entrepreneurship When I met him during the award ceremony, he asked me, “What really makes entrepreneurs?” I was young then. I told him, “Politicians give fish to people but we teach them how to do fishing ” It was a very proud moment for me and a great honour to receive an award from him.

dosas In Stella Marris and Holy Angels, we run canteens, employing single mothers and transgender people. How many outlets are run by you now?

Today, we have 90 plus outlets outside India and 40 plus in Chennai. I have retired and handed over the baton to my son who fully takes care of them all

You are giving a lot back to the society. Tell us about that.

We started Winners with the Rotary Club of Chennai. Here, we teach people how to bake. The confectioner in Winners has six of his own units He joined us as a dishwasher In Puzhal prison, we set up a bakery, donated the equipments and trained them. We named the bakery ‘Freedom.’ We have opened a canteen partnering with TN government’s education department in College Road where we have 17 plus mentally challenged people. None of them has a home. The NGO ‘Banyan’ accommodates them. I pick them from Banyan’s home for the mentally challenged and teach them how to sell my favourite food- idlis and

What are some of the major lessons learnt in your journey?

You must have a goal to reach You have to plan and do your homework You must have a focus As founders, we work with a lot of passion. The private equity guys look at the top line but as founders, we must be focussed on the bottom line For a restaurant to be successful, infrastructure is very much required So, before you open a restaurant, ensure the infrastructure there is adequate because people are going to visit the place And finally, dream big Have passion and think differently. 