[Translated Text] The Magic of Art and its Creator (1988) by NTU Libraries

MLK (Author Myint Lwin Khine) AS (Bagyi Aung Soe) AM (Daw Ah Mar)

142 A couple of weeks ago, I went to meet Bagyi Aung Soe. He lived at 11, Thingaha Street, Kyauk Myaung. I saw him opportunely. When I mentioned having written about meeting him, he said he could not hear me. He did not hear at all in spite of me shouting into his ears with my hands held in the shape of a cone. That was bad. I had to write it on paper and he then merrily greeted me, saying that I could visit him any time and that he would warmly “welcome” me in both Burmese and English. We have talked a lot since the first time we met. MLK: Tell me about where you were born, your parents and siblings. AS:

I’m from Yangon. I was born at 92 Lanmadaw, Yangon, on 9th December, 1923. U Ba Chit Tin and Daw Tint Ohn were my parents. I had a sister called Ma Tin Yee. She passed away soon after Independence in Myanmar. My family lived at a two-storied wooden house in Lanmadaw when I was young. We stayed on the upper level because the ground level was rented out. But it was sold long before. When my parents were gone, I was left alone.

MLK: What about your education when you were young? AS:

I studied at Myoma National School, which is now known as No. 2, Basic Education High School, Dagon, up to Grade 11. But I didn’t go for higher education after the war.

MLK: Did you participate in any patriotic movements or activities during the war? AS:

I was in the Burmese Independence Army in my younger days, not the Burma National Army or any other during the Japanese Occupation.

MLK: Have you used the name “Bagyi Aung Soe” since your marriage? AS:

I was drawing before I got married. I had the chance to study art during my stay with the great artist U Ba Kyi, my first brother-in-law and his wife Daw Tin May. He didn’t give me many lessons on art. He didn’t really want to teach a relative art, but I was able to get adequate exposure. Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” Periodical of Music Videos (1988). Republished in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151.

MLK: Did you start with the illustrations for poems or novels? I think it might be nearly forty years since you’ve been illustrating [Burmese: ဆြဲ] for magazines and journals.1 AS:

That’s right, for about forty years. I started drawing for Taya Magazine, for its headings of texts. I received 5 kyats for every heading. Later on, I also drew illustrations for poems. My first illustration was for poetess Kyi Aye.

MLK: I think you are different from the other artists. You write “bagyi," not “pangyi" as others do. When you sign, it is not complicated like others’, whether in English or Burmese. It is simple: a big circle with eight smaller ones before your name. But what does it mean? AS:

My signature is just a handwritten name. I don’t want it in a mess. And I write “bagyi” as it is pronounced. It happens in nearly every country. When we were young, we wrote the way we spoke. Then “pangyi" became “bagyi" as spoken. A circle with eight smaller ones around it represents “solar energy,” the solar system of nine planets. It also represents a pattern of thanaka seen on the cheeks of Burmese kids.

MLK: Were there any contemporary [Burmese: ေခတ္ၿပိဳင္] artists at your time? AS:

Of course, U Ohn Lwin, U Ko Lay, U Ba Kyi and U Ba Lon Lay. I was good friends with Ko Hla Soe. But our drawings were not much accepted at that time.

MLK: Aside from illustrating or drawing, did you have any other jobs to make a your living? AS:

In 1948, after Myanmar became independent, I worked as a teacher in a primary school, a middle school and then the government high schools, previously known as “hait-sa-ku” in Insein. Then in 1955, I worked as a replacement for U Ba Kyi at the University of Education for a short time. He had won a scholarship and went to France. And around 1954, I worked at the School of “Testile [sic] Printing” [English], under the Ministry of Industry.2

MLK: How about your own family? AS:

As I said, I was working at the School of “Textile Printing” [English], and there I met Daw Than Kyi @ Daw Ah Mar, who worked at the same department. I called her “Ah Mar” and we got married in 1953. We have five children. The eldest son is U Myint Soe (married to Daw Nwe New Oo), second, daughter Daw Than Than Soe (married to U

The Burmese word translated as “to illustrate” here means “to draw” too. Aung Soe appeared to have been confused with the year. Later in the same interview, he said that he met and married his second wife whom he met at the School of Textile Printing in 1953 (his family members however stated the marriage to have taken place in 1954). In another article by B. Han Shein, he also stated 1953. 2

Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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143

144 We now live at 11 Thingaha Street, Kyauk Myaung. The eldest son, the second youngest daughter who has yet to marry and the youngest son live together with us. MLK: You worked at the Institute of Technology, haven’t you? AS:

I have. I worked as a part-time lecturer (“Part Time Lecturer” [English]) at the Department of Architecture at the Rangoon Institute of Technology for about 17 or 18 years. I quit the job in 1970 because of my health.

MLK: What do you think of today’s artists such as Moat Thone (m-t), graphic designer Kyaw Min Maung, Hla Tun Aung, Myint Maung Kyaw, Aung Ba and Sher Tae Aung? AS:

I’m really glad as there are young modern artists today. They are not bad at all. In fact, some of them are even better than me. Their creations are not slovenly done. They know the techniques well. I am much heartened by them. They make me want to live more. I am happy to draw together with them; it is better than being alone. Some readers and modern artists called my creations “mad art” [Burmese: အရူးပန္းခ်ီ]. They condemned me. Now I have the young artists on my side and no one dares to insult or degrade me because of them.

MLK: I find your pictures very profound; they should be called “Double Image” [English]. AS:

Yes, you are right. “Double Image” [English] explains it well enough to be understood. And they are needed for good creation.

MLK: There is no good artist like you with the same attitude toward art. AS:

I am bad. And I’ve tried to be poor like this intentionally. Because I believe “poor is rich.” Can I ask you something? Have you read “Chin” or “Tai Ching” [English] written by the Chinese philosophers?3 If you have, that’s good. If not, then I recommend you to find out and read about them. That’s all.

MLK: Do you mean Taoist philosophy? AS:

I live in accordance with it. So peaceful.

MLK: People think you are crazy, looking at the abstract [Burmese: စိတၲဇ] drawings you made. Why don’t we talk more about them?4 3

It is unclear if Aung Soe meant Taiji or Daodejing (Tao Te Ching). “Jing” or “ching” in Chinese refers to the scriptures. 4 The Burmese word here translated as “abstract” literally means “psychotic.” The word translated as “drawings” can be likewise translated as “paintings” or “illustrations.” Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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Khin Maung Latt) and third, son U Thura Soe (married to Daw Lwin Lwin Myint), fourth, daughter Khine Khine Soe and the youngest son, Maung Maung Soe.

My two early teachers were crazy. And I who studied under them became crazy too. One was a teacher who knew well the architecture of ancient England in early days.

145 The next one was an old Chinese monk and he was an artist as well. When I asked him to teach me art, he said, “There are no Indian workers to clear the buckets of stool these days during the Japanese Occupation. People have difficulties with this. You want to learn art? If you clean them…” He taught me Chinese philosophy instead, not art. MLK: Did you go abroad for further study? AS:

I have been to India, Pakistan and Russia. The Indian government supported me for my studies there. It was in 1950, I think.

MLK: You drew a picture for this interview. How did you get the idea for it? AS:

Well, it is: 1. “Automotion [sic] Action” [English] 2. And I let it happen as it is; 3. It can also be called mystic art [Burmese: မေနာ မဟိဒိၶဓာတ္ကူးပန္းခ်ီ]. Although we haven’t met before, but as soon as I saw you, as you appeared in my mind and as I felt you in my mind, I drew it with my mind. This can be experienced with a method of psychology (“Phycology” [sic] [English]). For example, telepathy (“Telepathy” [English]). This is the easiest way and it can be perfected through practice.

MLK: When someone from a magazine or publication, or the chosen author or poet told you – rather insistently – to change or add something to the illustration you made for them, did you accept it? AS:

I did it once. They can take it or leave it if they don’t like; I make changes for no one. As I told you, I draw as I recall, see and feel in my mind. So, if it [the drawing] is altered, the interpretation of my senses could be inaccurate. I don’t even clean the drawing if my hand accidently touches it and leaves a mark on it. I just leave it there as it is.

MLK: You also sign “Aung Bagyi Ko (Nine),” don’t you? AS:

Yes, it ensues mysticism, a kind of energy in painting; “I paint solar energy” [English].

MLK: Previously, your illustrations for poems were not usually printed in colour; they were normally in just one color in the well-known magazines. And even now, while some presses use “Off-set” [English], there are not many illustrations in colour. Although there are some published in colour, many are not.

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AS:

I used to draw many illustrations for poems a long time ago. The popular magazines – or like yours, one on films – do not care to show them in colour, and if they do, it’s superficially. For them, it is okay so long as the poem has a picture. Lately, the publishing houses use offsets and thus some of the well-known magazines have them in colour.

146 Still, some poems come only with the text and no illustration. It is crucial for the poem to come with an illustration. It can offer a second aesthetic value at the same time. A poem with no picture is like curry without salt. MLK: How do they differ, illustrations in colour and without colour? AS:

I drew some in monotone but some in colour on purpose. If two or three colours were arbitrarily added to the illustration created in monotone, then the intended meaning would be lost. Likewise, the fundamental meaning of an illustration in colour would be lost if it were printed in monotone. Most of the presses do not want to spend much on design or printing regardless of the quality of the illustrations. Although I create them with goodwill, sometimes they [publishers] are stingy. When the illustrations do not look good, it is convenient for them to say, “The old boy is out-of-date.” I do not like that kind of remark. I emulate Thara here.5 He did his best with his works. I am poor. But I do not value money more than my art.

MLK: You hardly illustrate novels’ covers, don’t you? AS:

I did, over twenty years ago, such as for a novel by Maung Thara, With Clothes Flopping and Fluttering, and Half-Fallen Flowers in the Hair. There are many others that I can’t recall. Watercolour paintings are popular nowadays, but mine are not trendy and thus I do not illustrate novels’ covers. Why don’t you come with me if you have time? I want to take you to Ah Mar, my wife who is now selling fried snacks at the side-roofed part of this house. My life is only complete with that snack hut. I can’t make enough with art, so I mention this hut. I earn 40 or 50 kyats for each picture.6 At present, it can’t cover a family’s expenses for food, so she sells fried snacks as a source of income.

I reached the attached hut where his wife sells snacks. He introduced me to her. She warmly welcomed and treated me to green tea and various fried snacks. I have not seen her, Daw Than Kyi or Daw Ah Mar before. She must have been a pretty woman when she was young, and still has fair skin. However, the shadows of anxiety about their children, her husband’s health condition, and the hard life of making a living were written across her face. With perspiration on her wrinkled forehead and coal dust on her face, she talked. 5 6

Maung Thara was a renowned writer. It is unclear if Aung Soe meant each illustration, drawing or painting [Burmese: ပံု]. Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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AS:

AM:

It was a mistake to marry an artist. I have been struggling all my life and I don’t want my children to be artists. I don’t want them to inherit their father’s characteristics. I beat and scold them hard when I see them drawing. Still, they do it surreptitiously. The eldest son can draw a bit, but he doesn’t make a living out of art.

MLK: You were in comfortable circumstances when he acted in movies, weren’t you? AM:

It was worse. There was even once when someone got him to sign a contract when he was drunk and paid nothing for his acting. Working in film was more unfortunate.

MLK: Wasn’t he a member of the Film Council? AM:

No, he wasn’t. Not of the Burma Art and Sculpture Council either. We got no help and we didn’t ask for it. But one thing: the old students from the Rangoon Institute of Technology (RIT) really respect him. They come in a group every year and pay respects him with good things that they think he might need.

MLK: It has been nice talking with you. The snacks are going to burn. I’ll talk to you later. Now I will talk with him while we have time. What is the name of first film you were in when you started working in the film industry? AS:

A Minute to… directed by U Kyaw Than was my first film in the film industry.

MLK: Yes… I’ve watched it in my childhood. It was a kind of detective movie. You played a villain and U Tun Wai was the leading actor. It was something different. The villain’s face was not seen throughout the film. All his movements were known by his feet. We only saw your face at the very end of it. It was a violent act, but the audience remarked that Bagyi Aung Soe was a handsome man when they saw your face. How many films did you act in? And which was your last? AS:

I was in over forty films and mostly as a mean guy or villain; merely in the role of a doctor or a dad. The last film was Urchin directed by Ni Win Tun.

MLK: Did you play any leading role? AS:

Sure. But I did not become an actor as I had no talent for it. A Sky Full was the name of the film in which I stared in the leading role. The director of that film has now won six Academy Awards. Although he tried hard to make me an actor, I lacked the aptitude. I am convinced about it because one must have the technique to deliver the lines right.

148 For example, Khin Maung Yin’s way of saying, “That’s what the police sees, U Ba Chit… hahaha,” when the camera rolls. I was not as good as him. His voice and acting are great. Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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147

MLK: Tell me more about your experience as the lead actor in A Sky Full. AS:

I was not suitable for a romantic story because I couldn’t look at a woman for long. That was a problem. The actresses in that film were Tin Tin Mu and Kyi Kyi Htay. It was the scene shot in a park. Tin Tin Mu was singing and waiting for her beloved and I had to tell her that I loved her. The director taught me the lines, but I was hesitant and couldn’t say a word to Tin Tin Mu when I was with her. It had to be shot several times. The director was upset. I drank a lot and I did not become what he wanted me to be. I couldn’t say what he wanted me to say and he was unhappy.

MLK: What kind of roles did you prefer to play? AS:

Like I said, I mostly played the villain. As a bad guy, I had to do the fight scenes. It is similar to automation in art. I played them with all my heart. For example, I hit and fought for real in the fighting parts of the film. College-Gin Nay Win’s hand got hurt and there was blood. I fought for real. I prefer fight scenes.7 I think I was good at it.

MLK: You were aggressive when you were drunk. Once you quarrelled with Dawn Nwe Swe when you two were drinking together, right? AS:

That’s right. It was a long time ago. There used to be a “Night Club” [English] bar near 40th Street.

149 Dawn Nwe Swe whom I usually drank with and I quarrelled when drinking. As we were drunk, we fought. He hit me with an inch-thick stick and my hand was broken. He also got bruises on his face. MLK: You drank too much during shooting and there came difficulties. AS:

Exactly. I forgot the “Dialogue” [English] and could not deliver the lines smoothly; these caused problems at work.

“Gin” is the Burmese word for a spinning top. “College-Gin” is a nickname for a smart and witty university student. College-Gin Nay Win was a famous actor. Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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He acted with the voice coming from the heart; nobody could do it like him. And again, someone may be handsome, but if he cannot sing, he will not be a good actor. For example, Win Oo. He became successful because of his voice and looks. Myat Lay and I entered the film industry at almost the same time. He was my friend and colleague. My dear friend Myat Lay became a very famous actor. He became an actor as he wanted to be one. It was real for him. He became successful. I was not interested in film and did not want to be an actor either. I did it for fun sometimes. It is not true that only handsome men can be actors. If so, Myat Lay would never have become one. He has been very eloquent since a student. It is the same with Wai Tun. Whatever they say is impassioned. That is called an acquired quality and the skills as well.

AS:

Yes. Besides, I was very forgetful. It was difficult for me to deliver the lines the directors asked me to. I left some of them out. As I could not remember the “Dialogue” [English], I stopped acting. And I suffered from paralysis in the year 1970. It caused my auditory nerve and hearing to deteriorate. I couldn’t hear normal speech. This was why I stopped filming too.

MLK: Now you enjoy dharma. AS:

I am quite singular. When I drink, I just drink; no counting of beads. When I count beads, no drink. I take merit only when I do virtuous actions. And take demerit when I do bad things.

In June, we met for the first time for this interview. Apart from his poor hearing and him being quite slow in speech, he was in good health. When I went to meet him for the second time in the same month, I didn’t get to see him. He was too drunk and lying in bed. I went to see him again after a week. I didn’t see him in the living room. His wife had tears on her face and the children were sad. I was worried; what was going on? Then his wife explained to me that he had not been able to move his body and limbs since that morning. There were heavy rains in June and I thought he had caught a cold. I saw the children were taking good care of him. At mid-day, he felt much better and could talk with me. AS:

When I woke up early this morning, I could not move my hands and legs all of a sudden. And I could not open my mouth either. My family members were crying. I felt better as I focused on this, “I am clean and thus should have no fear.” [Burmese: ၀ိဘက္မၾကံဳ စိတ္မလံု သုညစစ္တည္း]

He wrote these on a paper and talked with me. His health condition improved with every passing hour. So I was relieved and came back home. I returned to his home in July for another time. I was informed that he was in hospital and went there to see him. With the doctors’ treatment and care, he was recovering. 150 [Image] 151 However, U Ba Yin Galay, who was in the hospital at the same time, passed away. MLK: I am so glad that you now look healthy and cheerful. Is there anything special you need or want? AS:

Thanks, I’m getting better again. I will get the permission to go home very soon. It cost about a thousand kyats to cure the disease. But it was worth it. I got the money from Maung Maung Thike, Tin Maung Myint, Shwe Mintha, San Toe, Pae Then and Wathone, Myint Lwin Khine, “The Magic of Art and its Creator,” in The Legacy of Bagyi Aung Soe: Twentieth Death Anniversary (Yangon: Swiftwinds, 2010), 142-151. Translated by Pann Hmone Wai; edited by Yin Ker.

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MLK: Did you stop acting because of your health?

It was in the evening and I heard a ring: the end of visiting hours at that hospital. I said goodbye to him and went back. I thought about him on my way home and remembered what he said. “I am really glad that there are young modern artists today. They are not bad at all. In fact, some of them are even better than me. Their creations are not slovenly done. They know the techniques well. I am much heartened by them. They make me want to live more. I am happy to draw together with them. It is better than being alone. Some readers and modern artists called my creations “mad art” [Burmese: အရူးပန္းခ်ီ]. They condemned me. Now I have the young artists on my side and no one dares to insult or degrade me because of them.”

Translated by Pann Hmone Wai Edited by Yin Ker

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young artists who helped me stay at the hospital and be cured. They paid for it. Some publishers turned their backs on me and pretended that they did not know about my situation. By the way, I want to introduce you to some of my family members while you are here. This is my eldest daughter Tin Tin Soe from my first marriage to Daw Nu Nu. She is a headmistress at a primary school in South Okkalapa. Her husband is Maung Maung Gyi. My daughter over there is called Myint Myint Soe. She works at a clinic for retired soldiers. Her husband is U Maw. And the next one is Mya Mya Soe. She is a teacher too. They take good care of me. I am still active now because of their loving care.