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It’s also a
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to help you succeed. From your initial Rosati’s Pizza franchise planning to the grand opening of your own resturant and beyond, we will be with ou every step of the way. You’re not just part of a franchise, you’re part of a family!
Lisa Tran has perfected the art of cooking while telling her family’s story.
Small talk is more important (and powerful!) than it gets credit for.
QUICK TIPS
6 Start Here This issue is all about making the sale. Let’s get started.
8 Six Ways to Build Lasting Partnerships Businesses are stronger together. Here’s how six entrepreneurs approach it.
10 Market Research for $5? How one entrepreneur reshaped his business…by buying people coffee.
12 Yes, You Can Get Press Startups often think they can’t get media coverage. But they haven’t tried these strategies.
14 Creating Trust Where There Was None Inside one entrepreneur’s quest to innovate in a notoriously tough industry.
16 Why You Should Create Content It’s a powerful marketing technique, but only if you do it right.
FRANCHISE
46 Multiple Benefits for Multi-Unit Franchisees Why some brands love working with big-thinking operators.
54 Staying Ahead of Change This franchisee missed one big tech revolution. He won’t make the same mistake twice.
56 This Dad Turned His Son’s Restaurant Around It’s a tale of pizza, opportunity, and rethinking everything.
60 The Big List of Business Opportunities Looking for a business to buy? We have more than 1,000!
110 Index Every business we list, in one handy guide.
120 Tell Your Story the Right Way It isn’t about sharing all your great accomplishments. It’s about being relatable with your failures.
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IYOU ARE IN SALES!
f you are building a startup, then you are in sales. If you’re just thinking about building a startup, then you are also in sales!
You may not realize it, and you may not be prepared for it, but the reality is that a company’s founder is also its first salesperson. And your sales job is the most complicated of all. Yes, of course, you’ll need to sell a product or a service to customers—but you’ll also need to sell your vision to potential partners, employees, and investors, and then you’ll need to sell all those people on the many changes your company will inevitably go through along the way.
It does not matter what your background is or how you define your value. Maybe you’re the visionary, or the technical expert, or the person whose experience gives them a unique understanding of a marketplace. Great. But you are also in sales.
Sales can make entrepreneurs nervous. Maybe you’re uneasy talking with strangers. Maybe you’re unsure of how to pitch your business, and you don’t feel comfortable smooth-talking your way into a client’s wallet. That’s all fine—and it’s why we created this issue of Startups.
The stories in this issue are designed to make you think differently about sales. You’ll discover that, in fact, you are naturally very good at talking to strangers, even if you don’t think you are (page 34). And you’ll also learn that smooth-talking sales tactics are unwelcome and unnatural, but that there is a much better, more honest way to think about selling—and serving the people you’re selling to (page 42). We also dive into a new way of selling online through livestreaming (page 26), strategies for selling products at a sampling table in a grocery store (page 18), developing the right product to sell by buying people $5 Starbucks cards (page 10), and much, much more.
By the end of this issue, we hope you’ll feel convinced that sales is not a specific tactic but instead a complex and generous act. You’re not building a startup just to sell stuff. You’re building it to solve people’s problems—and that means people’s lives will be better off when you’ve solved those problems! Selling is how you get your solution out into the world. And when it’s done right, selling should result in everyone feeling good.
If you’ve picked up this magazine, then in some way or another, you are already in sales. Now turn the page, and let’s make those sales even stronger. —JASON
FEIFER, editor in
chief
Six Ways
BUILD LASTING PARTNERSHIPS
Finding trustworthy vendors and partners is key to growing your business—but it’s a challenging relationship to perfect. We asked six entrepreneurs to share their best methods.
1 Start small.
“We ask potential vendors about their sustainability practices to make sure our values are aligned. If they are, we experiment with small-batch orders, when possible, to ensure that any wrinkles can get ironed out early without affecting the supply chain and customer experience too much. Clear communication from those earliest days is an important part of creating lasting relationships.”
—JUSTINA BLAKENEY, founder, Jungalow
2 Build foundations.
“I take a long-term approach to all partnerships. For example, I had been talking to one technology platform for two years, and we finally closed a deal. I had established a trusting relationship with them over the years, and when it made sense for us to invest in that kind of support, I knew they were the right partner. On the flip side, there’s a great company we want to partner with, but we’re not quite big enough yet. So again, we’re building a relationship now—and when we’re big enough to do a deal with them, we’ll both feel trust.”
—KERRY BENJAMIN, founder and CEO, StackedSkincare
3 Do your research.
“This is big for us, because manufacturing partners aren’t easy to change. We vet—and vet and vet and vet. We go to factories, we talk to other customers, and we consider the vendor’s communications during the vetting process. If they aren’t responsive while trying to win your business, they won’t be responsive once they have it.”
—ALEXANDRA FINE, cofounder and CEO, Dame Products
4 Think like a team.
“We try to find partners that view our brand as a path for success for their own business—making sure a partnership is mutually beneficial leads to great relationships and aligned incentives. To make this relationship last, don’t hammer vendors when circumstances are out of their control, like a snowstorm that causes delays. Be flexible, and treat them like true partners rather than cogs in a machine.”
—ADAM SCHWARTZ, cofounder and CEO, TeePublic
5 Consider values.
“At Umamicart, our mission is twofold: to celebrate Asian culture and flavors, and to support the hardworking people behind the food. As such, we work almost exclusively with immigrant-led distributors, mom-and-pop vendors, and Asian-American founders. We connect with our partners on a regular basis, and having a common underlying mission makes the relationship stand on a really solid foundation, one that’s much deeper than just a transactional interaction.”
—ANDREA XU, cofounder and CEO, Umamicart
6 Share success.
“This can often slip through the cracks, but it’s really vital for building long-term relationships: Celebrate wins together. It’s so important to acknowledge that building a business is a team activity, and to share the successes with vendors and partners. We try to keep them posted on big financial milestones and exciting press and let them know how much we appreciate their contribution.”
—SOPHIE BAKALAR, cofounder, Fable
MARKET RESEARCH FOR $5
Can’t raise funds? That might be for the best. This entrepreneur scraped his way to unicorn status…by meeting his consumers at a coffee shop.
Stuart Landesberg started his career at Lehman Brothers and TPG Growth, but he felt a pull toward the sustainable-living industry. He’d grown up composting in his family’s backyard and had a vision of selling eco-friendly products online. “I was filled with the hubris of a 26-yearold guy who works in finance,” he says.
So in 2012, he did what he thought he should: He looked for two cofounders, scrambled for meetings with investors, and showed off his grand plan for a company called ePantry. It would sell multiple existing brands. Nobody was interested. “It hurts me to even think about it,” he says, laughing.
Those rejections turned out to be a great fortune, however—because they forced him to be scrappy and inventive and understand his customer in perfect detail. His business transformed as a result. But of course, he didn’t know that at the time. He was just trying to survive.
After the start, after those investor rejections, Landesberg didn’t have much. His team didn’t have the money to develop a functional e-commerce site, so all they had was a PowerPoint presentation explaining their plan.
One day, when not much else was going on, Landesberg decided to see what everyday consumers thought of his company. Where to find them? He
chose Starbucks. He showed up, bought a bunch of $5 gift cards, and then went table to table with his laptop. “Hi; I don’t mean to be rude,” he said, “but if you have five minutes, would you mind just clicking through a prototype of a product that we’re launching?” He offered a gift card in exchange for their time.
Two thirds of people said no. But a third said yes. He’d ask for five minutes, but the review usually took 20, and half of them sat through all of it. “Total bait and switch,” he admits, “but you’d usually get really good feedback.”
It was so good, in fact, that he kept going…for a year and a half. It became a routine.
Landesberg would arrive around 8:30 a.m. and go for hours. He guesses he handed out at least 900 gift cards.
Some of his caffeinating subjects actually wanted to make purchases—a slight problem, since Landesberg didn’t have inventory. So he bought products on Amazon, marked them up, and resold them to these customers. But the real benefit came
from people’s feedback. Landesberg learned that his vision was all wrong. He thought convenience would be his major value proposition. It wasn’t; people wanted a company that made them feel virtuous and good about themselves. Also, Landesberg figured that he was his main target—a busy urban professional from the coast. But he wasn’t. His core customer was a 29-year-old mother of two working as a substitute teacher in Kansas (or Utah or Tennessee, or somewhere other than New York and California). “When I realized this is my customer,” he says, “I knew the potential for my company was way bigger than I thought.”
By 2016, he was ready to take action. He changed the name of the company to Grove Collaborative, to spark the emotional connection people craved. He launched a line of products and targeted it to a mass-market audience. And he reacted to
something else he’d learned at Starbucks. Many people said they believed eco products were too expensive and wouldn’t work as well as conventional products. So he created a robust team of customer service “Grove Guides” to educate customers.
It worked. Today, Grove Collaborative has more than 1,000 employees, carries 170 brands, including seven of its own, and logged more than $350 million in revenues last year. Investors are in, too. With its latest $125 million Series E, the company is valued at $1.32 billion.
“If I’d had investors calling me at the beginning, I wouldn’t have been in Starbucks trying to figure out the product,” says Landesberg. “People can get hooked on the growth treadmill, but companies that win are often the ones that are not initially well-funded.” He is still addicted to talking to customers, but the caffeine? “I quit,” he says. “No more coffee!”
HOW SMALL COMPANIES CAN GET BIG PR
Think you’re too small to get press coverage? You’re just not selling yourself properly.
by NATASHA ZO
oes your company deserve press?
DMany business owners say no. I run a PR agency, and entrepreneurs often tell me they believe their brand is too small, too fresh, or in some way unfit for coverage. But that’s not their real problem—instead, they just don’t know how to sell their expertise. Here are three scenarios that any thought leader or personal brand can use to successfully pitch media.
1 Name what you see. Have you spotted a trend? Give it a name.
This is a simple but powerful way to establish your authority. Things are always floating in the cultural ether
demic, for example, Texas A&M University professor Anthony Klotz gained widespread recognition for calling it “the Great Resignation”—a term the media now uses regularly. Don’t just make up a trend, though. You’re better off scouring the internet for new studies, which often do the job of identifying new phenomena and validating your ideas. At my agency, we utilize this strategy often. For example, after the first round of pandemic-related lockdowns in 2020, we worked with a client to identify common new issues in romantic relationships, from lovers who were forced to split to couples who were rushed into commitment. We gave these things names, paired them with some research we found, and successfully pitched them to a range of online publications.
2 Hijack events.
Big media events that involve celebrities, household names, and international movie releases are guaranteed to get news coverage. That’s an opportunity for you to jump in and provide your professional expertise, which writers may use as they cover these events. Publicists call this technique “news hijacking.”
to cover it. In a situation like this, you could identify prominent topics from the interview, such as bullying, privacy, and mental health, and then add your professional expertise to send to writers you know are most likely covering the story.
3 Curate content.
As an expert in your industry, you likely know about important things that journalists do not. You can save those journalists hours of research by offering them an overview of trends, discoveries, or even different leaders in your field. In turn, they may quote you in a story or invite you to write for their publication. Doing this requires objectivity, as well as honest and inclusive writing. Editors have a nose for information or “takes” that seem biased or overly selfpromotional, and they’ll want to know that the information you’re providing isn’t agenda-driven.
as big groups of people have similar experiences—and when a professional gives a trend a name, they pull it into the public awareness. When people began quitting their jobs during the pan-
To do this right, you must move fast. Build a list of writers or publications ahead of time, and be ready to hit them with your comment as soon as you see a big story surfacing. Earlier this year, for example, the world buzzed about Oprah Winfrey’s interview with Meghan Markle and Prince Harry. Writers and editors were looking for new angles
For example, my agency represents an online school that teaches breath work. We saw that health-focused publications were starting to write about breath work, so we had our client put together an honest review of all the options available on the market—and a major magazine published it. We consider this a triple win: The audience gets curated content, the magazine gets to provide well-rounded objective information to its readers, and the expert gets exposure to a huge audience.
Natasha Zo is a former journalist and the founder of Natasha Zo PR.
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My First Moves
CREATING TRUST WHERE THERE WAS NONE
Home renovations are full of headaches—but how do you fix an age-old industry woe? Here’s how Jean Brownhill, founder and CEO of Sweeten, built something better.
by STEPHANIE SCHOMER
When Jean Brownhill walked into her Brooklyn home in 2007 and saw a gaping hole in the ceiling, she knew she was dealing with a renovation gone wrong. Brownhill had built a career in architecture and construction—and if she struggled to find a reliable general contractor, then she knew other homeowners must really struggle.
To seize the opportunity, she launched Sweeten in 2011. It’s an online marketplace that matches homeowners with vetted general contractors and helps manage the relationship and the project. Consumers get transparency; reliable contractors get more business. Since launching, Sweeten has raised $20 million, completed thousands of renovations across the country, and has $1.8 billion worth of projects in its pipeline.
But to succeed, Brownhill knew she’d need to do more than just create a smart service. She’d need to build trust in a very distrusting industry. Here’s how.
her lay an early foundation: “I found the person who developed our first line of code at a Meetup.”
2 Build trust with partners.
To win over skeptical contractors, Brownhill often met them at their work sites and focused on creating mutual benefit. “They needed to know that we have skin in the game, too,” she says. “Sweeten doesn’t charge them to join the platform and can help them find the right clients—but if they get three bad reviews, they’re off the platform.”
3 Build trust with customers.
Consumers weren’t used to hiring contractors online,
4 Build trust with yourself.
At first, Brownhill self-funded Sweeten. (“I cashed out my 401(k) and ran up my credit cards,” she says, which she doesn’t advise.) By 2013, she needed institutional capital to grow but kept hearing no from investors. She kept at it, seeking VCs who would understand the business. Then she found Joanne Wilson at Gotham Gal Ventures, who enthusiastically agreed to invest. “Being a woman, being African American—your first yeses, you almost don’t know how to react because you’re so not used to it,” Brownhill says. “I was stumbling all over the place! I did not yet know how to walk through open doors. Luckily, I have since learned to do just that.”
What’s Your Problem?
HOW DO I TELL MY STORY?
Creating content may be easy, but that doesn’t mean you should do it.
by ADAM BORNSTEIN
Q:So many brands have become content producers. Do I need to launch a podcast or a blog, too?
—AZIZ, TORONTO
Entrepreneurs feel a pressure to be everywhere, grabbing everyone’s attention. You may think it’s the difference between growth and decline. But that’s not true. How you make an impression on someone is just as important—and arguably more significant—than simply getting on their radar. I learned this early in my career, before I entered business, when I began as an aspiring journalist. People told me I needed “more clips,” which meant I needed more proof of my work. I
hustled, taking every writing opportunity I could find regardless of quality. But I kept getting rejected for fulltime jobs. It was frustrating and confusing, until one potential employer finally explained his disinterest: “You’re only as strong as your weakest clip,” he said.
In other words, people were aware of what I was doing—but what I created didn’t make them excited about working with me. The same liability exists in business, and it’s why you must be careful about the pod-
casts and blogs you create. Content creates awareness and can be a powerful way to grow a business. But it comes with risks, too. First, it can be a lot of work for very little return. And second, if the work doesn’t add value, you just created a bad first impression. So how do you decide if content is right for you? Here are four questions to consider.
1 What problem are you trying to solve?
Awareness should serve a purpose, and if you’re looking to grow or amplify your story, content is only one tool to do that. Consider what else you have planned; maybe you’re currently investing in more paid media, a sales team, or other marketing ideas. If you have a lot in the pipeline, you may not need content right now.
2 Do you have the time or resources?
Blogs and podcasts are opportunities—but if you’re unable to invest in their success with the right talent and production value, then you’re better off without them. Assess the amount of time and money it will take to do them well, and stack that against what else might be sacrificed.
3 Do you have the skill to succeed?
Podcasts and blogs look easy to make, but that’s exactly why you need to be deliberate with what you create. The low barrier to entry means that both of these spaces are very crowded, and dominated by people who have been practicing and refining their craft for years. Content isn’t just
about competing with other businesses; it’s competing with other creators for people’s time. That means you must have something to say—and a way to say it that people will prioritize. If that feels daunting, then good. It means you’re thinking about the competition in the right way, and it will force you to create something special.
4 Do you know what’s missing from your story?
Every good business has something that distinguishes it from the competition—but not every business knows how to bring that story, value, or purpose to life. Amazing content lives at the intersection of what I think of as three E’s: education, entertainment, and emotion. That’s not to say every piece of content requires all three, but that’s the formula for greatest payoff for yourself and your audience.
No one needs to create a blog or a podcast, but everyone does need to control their narrative. The better you do it, the more powerfully you can transform your traditional business into something that meets people where they are. Maybe that’s with content… but maybe it’s not! Let your resources and needs drive your decision.
Adam Bornstein is the founder of Pen Name Consulting, a marketing and branding agency, and the creator of two12, a mentorship experience for entrepreneurs.
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A SMALL PART OF A SMALL BUSINESS CAN BE A BIG IDEA
A A A IDEA
Lisa Tran’s parents (right) escaped a Communist regime and built a small restaurant in America. Now she wants to reinvent it by building a business based solely on their sauces. Her mom thinks she’s crazy—and maybe she is. But some of the greatest brands were built in much the same way
Lisa Tran with her twin children, at a tasting station for her Tân Tân sauces.
Growth
still remember the first time somebody tasted one of our sauces and said, ‘Ugh, not for me,’ ” Lisa Tran says. It was 2017, and Tran had just made one of the biggest, most emotionally wrought decisions of her life. She’d created a line of Vietnamese sauces based on beloved family recipes, despite her parents’ disapproval, and set out to become an entrepreneur. That meant handing out a lot of samples in a lot of supermarkets, where she felt raw and vulnerable. So when this one customer just wrinkled her nose and walked away—leaving a half-eaten cup on the counter—it was a breakdown moment for Tran.
I“I went to the bathroom and cried,” she says. “People can be so blunt, and I couldn’t help taking it personally, because our family—well, the sauces we make are so personal.”
Business will always feel personal for entrepreneurs, but for Tran’s family, it is the culmination of many life-or-death choices, and a tension over what exactly their American dream looks like. Tran is 40 and was born in a refugee camp. Her parents, Mai Nguyen and Vinh Tran, escaped Vietnam in the 1970s and have operated out of necessity ever since. They opened a Vietnamese restaurant when Tran was in high school but never wanted their daughter to join that business; they wanted her to be a doctor and have financial security.
Tran tried to follow her parents’ wishes. She applied to medical school but wasn’t accepted. “My brain is not wired for science,” she says. Eventually, with her parents’ help, she opened a second loca-
tion of their restaurant, which at least provided for a steady income. But then she became pregnant with twins. The restaurant’s 14-hour days were draining. That’s when she started thinking about sauces. Her family’s restaurant made its own sauces, and customers raved about them—her mom’s hot chili sauce was the most popular, but people also loved their peanut, hoisin, and fish sauces. Maybe, just maybe, the sauces weren’t a feature of their business. What if they were the business?
Tran’s parents were not happy about that idea.
“My mom couldn’t stand the financial uncertainty of it,” Tran says. “She was like, ‘You have kids, you are running this restaurant, this is a pipe dream. I don’t see any money coming in. At least at the restaurant, you have a paycheck every day.’”
But Tran was starting to think like an entrepreneur, and that’s a hard thing to turn off. A small part of their small business, she realized, might actually be
the seed of a very big thing.
In fact, that’s how some of the world’s biggest brands were built.
“A classic example of this is Mailchimp,” says Erdin Beshimov, senior director of MIT Open Learning and a cocreator of MIT’s first massive open online course on entrepreneurship. That company began as a fullservice web-design shop. The founders built an email automation tool for one customer and eventually realized they’d built something infinitely easier to scale— and worth going all in on.
Burt’s Bees did it, too. The company began as a beekeeping business to make honey, but then one of the partners started selling candles made from the leftover beeswax, and its entire model shifted. Patagonia’s story is the same: It began as a small climbing equipment company, until it discovered a huge opportunity in a single product line— shirts for climbing.
So, yes, Tran’s thinking echoes many of the great entrepreneurs before her. But identifying the “small” part of a small business is one thing. Actually turning it into a big business is quite another.
TRAN’S PARENTS met while trying to escape Vietnam the first time. It was 1975 and Communists had overtaken Saigon, where they lived. Her mother, Mai, was a 20-year-old elementary school principal, and her father, Vinh, was a 23-year-old seminarian—just months from becoming a priest. Their educations made them targets for
persecution, so they booked passage on the same escape boat. It was intercepted, but the experience brought them together. They quickly got engaged and tried to escape with some siblings again in 1976. This time it went worse. “Within a few days, they were attacked by Thai pirates,” Tran says. “The women were raped, and the men were beaten. They were robbed of their food and belongings. Then they were left to die out on the open ocean.” The survivors were ultimately rescued by a fisherman, but Vinh’s younger sister died from injuries sustained during the attack. The rest of them would spend the next three years in the Galang Refugee Camp on an Indonesian island.
That’s where Tran was born. “Living in barracks and having no money and no sense of what was going to happen in the future really shaped who [my parents] are today,” Tran says. “They got enterprising. My dad would take bark and carve little figurines to sell, and using that money, they would go to the commissary and buy the cheapest thing, which was rice flour. Then my mom would make little rice cakes and fry them up to sell.”
Finally, in 1981, Tran’s aunt in Oregon was able to sponsor the family to come to the U.S. During those early years, Mai and Vinh took whatever work they could get. Mai worked in manufacturing for Nike, while Vinh became a machinist for Boeing. They stayed in their roles for decades, turning down opportunities for
Growth
advancement so as to not draw attention to themselves. But eventually Mai retired when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and Vinh was laid off after not joining the workers union. They sought a new source of income and opened their restaurant, Tân Tân Cafe & Delicatessen, in Beaverton, Oreg.
As Tran grew up, she came to understand how her parents thought. “Coming from an immigrant mentality, anything steady is so lovely,” she says. They didn’t want to take chances on their or their family’s future. But Tran grew up in America, with a different mentality. She wanted to honor her parents’ sacrifices, but while doing so, she says, “I wanted to build something on my own and pave my own path.”
After not getting into medical school, at her mom’s suggestion, Tran decided to expand the family business. She opened a Tân Tân restaurant in Vancouver, Wash., where she’d settled with her hus-
band, and ran it for 10 years. Then came the pregnancy, the stress, and the realization that she needed something more. At her local small-business development center, she saw a flyer for a class called “Getting Your Recipe to Market.” She thought of her family’s sauces. Over the years, her mom’s hot chili sauce had become so popular with Tân Tân regulars that the family often sold it in 32-ounce to-go containers for $5 a tub. “Customers who bought tubs of sauce for years always told us, ‘Why don’t you bottle this?’ ” Tran says. “We probably lost so much money selling those tubs, but we were just happy people loved it. So I brought that flyer home to my husband and I was like, ‘Let’s try it.’ ”
Her husband, Calvin Nguyen, is an entrepreneur who had an entrepreneurial upbringing. His family owned the first Vietnamese grocery store in Portland. “It’s your time to shine,” he told her.
When Tran approached
her parents about selling her restaurant, at first they were happy because they needed more help at their restaurant. “They thought I would come straight back to the Beaverton location so my mom could take more days off,” Tran says.
But when she told them that she wanted to work on the sauces full time, their enthusiasm faded. “[My mom] thought Vietnamese food was too niche, and you have to sell so much of the sauces to make it big,” Tran says. “But I begged her: ‘Please just let me do this for a year and let me see what I can do with it.’ ” So Tran sold the restaurant and set out on her own.
EVERY ENTREPRENEUR can pivot, identifying some new opportunity and leaning heavily into it. But entrepreneurs in the service-andhospitality business, like Tran, have an advantage others don’t. “Successful product-based businesses see needs in real time in the marketplace,” says Jacqueline Snyder, cofounder of The Product Boss, a small-business coaching platform that focuses on helping companies develop product lines. “The beauty of a business like a restaurant, a coffee shop, a hair salon, etc., is that the customer is already there. You have direct access to consumer needs and feedback.”
This is particularly true for restaurateurs, says The Product Boss’s other cofounder, Minna KhounloSithep. If people keep asking for extra servings of something, a founder can
treat it like market research. “You can have open conversations to understand their needs and what may be missing for them in the experience,” she says.
Tran began learning this in the “Getting Your Recipe to Market” class. But she also learned that her restaurant’s customer base would only take her so far. After all, they were a self-selecting group of people who already sought out Vietnamese cuisine. What about the general population? How could she reach them?
Soon she’d have her chance. The course’s final project was to pitch New Seasons Market, a regional grocery store chain. She nailed it: Tân Tân became the first product to go through that program and then launch at all of New Seasons Market’s stores. (It had 18 at the time.) That’s how, in 2017, Tran wound up standing behind a demo counter in a gourmet grocery store in Portland, watching a lady wrinkle her nose at her family’s hoisin sauce.
After that happened, and Tran had a good cry in the bathroom, she went back at it. “I got some advice early on that I’ve always taken to heart, which is that getting into stores is only half the work,” she says. “The other half is actually selling the product. And that’s so true.” As she demoed her product in stores, she’d watch her competition. Some would just stand idly by, scrolling on their phones as customers grazed the samples. In contrast, she set up an induction stove at her station and cooked simple recipes right there in the
Tran (right) with her father, Vinh, and her mother, Mai.
$4,734,945
$855,857
store. “We really have to work hard at sharing these flavors with people because so many consumers don’t know what they are,” she says.
That kind of engagement is important, says Terry Soto, an expert in marketing for multicultural products, because good demoing performs the double-duty task of educating customers while winning over retailers. But it’s just the start. “Retailers love in-store sampling coupled with a price promotion or a coupon,” says Soto. “And they’re most supportive— as in, they’ll keep a product on the shelf and give it good shelf position—of new product manufacturers that can present a full-year cal-
endar of activity to generate awareness.”
Sales is also about storytelling, Soto says, and entrepreneurs should think hard about their product’s backstory. “If the backstory has an emotional, ‘overcoming-all-odds’ angle, so much the better,” she says.
Tran certainly had that, but it took her some time to get comfortable putting it out there. “At first I was kind of shy about sharing our story,” Tran says. When she began these demos in 2017, the cultural environment for immigrants and refugees in America was tense. But after some time, Tran says, “I learned to cook and serve and talk at the same time. I really wanted to tell people
that I’m an immigrant and that I was born in a refugee camp.” It’s something she’s even more committed to now, in 2021, as America grapples with a wave of antiAsian racism—which Tran has experienced firsthand since she began speaking about her family’s journey. “Sharing our story is never meant to diminish anyone else’s story,” she says. “I try not to take it too personally, because I think it comes from a much deeper place of hurt and anger. But there’s a lot of misunderstanding, and to be patient and open to this dialogue is, I think, the most basic thing we can do for each other right now.”
As time went on, New Seasons Market was so
impressed with Tran’s mini cooking shows that it gave her the store’s prime demo spot and began promoting Tân Tân in other ways, too. It put a tag on her products, alerting shoppers that they’re made by a local woman-owned BIPOC company. It also placed Tân Tân in displays at the end of an aisle and recommended the brand in newsletters.
When the pandemic descended in early 2020 and grocery stores’ demo programs shut down, she had to shift strategies. “Having a food-editoroutreach strategy is also important,” Soto advises, and that’s what Tran turned to next. She pitched her story to a few publications,
timed to the Lunar New Year, and got some traction. In early 2021, her sauces went from being sold in 300 stores across the Pacific Northwest to nearly 500. By the summer, she’d entered hundreds of Safeways and Albertsons stores and was preparing to launch into King Soopers.
AT THIS POINT, the “small” part of Tran’s small business is growing, though, of course, it’s still quite small. How does an entrepreneur know what to do next?
“It’s easy to overthink this question,” says Erdin Beshimov, the MIT Bootcamps founder. “The metric that should matter at
the early stage is the repurchase rate. Do your customers repurchase the product after they buy it once? How soon does the repurchase happen? Do you need to nudge your customers to buy again? Do you need to offer discounts? The best marketing is keeping the customers you already have and getting them to spend more. It’s hard to scale without that.”
Tran feels good about the patterns she’s seeing, though her mother hasn’t started celebrating just yet. “My mom is still thinking it’s a side hustle,” Tran says, laughing. “Every time I tell her I have to leave early because I have a demo or a meeting,
she gives me this look like, Oh geez, your thing again even though she’s my partner in all this!” But Tran sees her mom’s reticence as another by-product of the immigrant mindset: In addition to valuing stability over risk, her parents are too frugal to shop in the stores she’s selling in now. “Even if I got into Trader Joe’s, she would not be very impressed. My mom is like, ‘Who charges bananas by one banana?’ She thinks it’s too expensive. She says, ‘If you get into Costco, then I’ll be very excited for you!’” It may happen soon; she is now in talks to launch there in 2022.
In the meantime, Tran has won over at least one
early skeptic: the rude woman who tried her sauce at a demo table and said, “Ugh, not for me.” Many months later, that woman walked back up to Tran’s demo table. “I thought, I’m going to kill her with kindness,” Tran says. “She tried the sample and was like, ‘Oh, this is great. I love this.’ We had a conversation, and then she actually walked away with a sauce. I was so emotional about it. When I got to the car, this time it was tears of happiness. I was so grateful that I didn’t give up after the first time or when it got hard.”
Frances Dodds is Entrepreneur’s deputy editor.
LIVESTREAM SELLING IS HERE
Amazon, Facebook, Google, and TikTok are getting involved, VCs are investing, and brands are interested in a new retail spin that takes online shopping live. But an upstart company in Alabama is already living what may be the future of retail—and helping 6,000 small retailers see their business soar. by LIZ BRODY
Y
Mic Hensley won’t put on a dress. His fans would die for him to wear one when he livestreams to more than a million phones and Facebook pages while making sales for Pink Coconut, which sounds like a club but is actually a women’s clothing boutique he owns with his wife, Sheri, in Olive Branch, Miss. “I’ll put on a cardigan or a bunch of purses,” Hensley says, laughing. “But I try not to even do that very often because they just get pumped and want more.”
Though that’s not all they want more of. Livestream selling not only saved the Hensleys’ business from becoming a casualty of the pandemic; it increased sales 20 to 30 percent every month, sending the Hensleys into a hiring frenzy that has now reached 48 employees and counting. “Once we started doing it,” says Mic, “everything just kind of shot to the moon.”
Widely referred to as QVC on steroids, livestream selling in the U.S. usually features a salesperson or an influencer, often in their living room (cords, tchotchkes, and pets in full view), demonstrating products and shooting the breeze with online shoppers in real-time video. Viewers can say hi or ask questions in comments that float across the screen, and the livestreamer responds to them personally. Meanwhile, everyone watches a bubble that displays the product’s dwindling availability until it sells out.
It’s already a craze in China, where livestream shopping sales will hit $300 billion this year, according to Coresight Research. (There, the video productions are more sophisticated and staged.) But the U.S. market has been pretty
groggy, estimated to be only $6 billion in 2020. That may be about to change. Coresight, for one, predicts the market will more than quadruple by 2023 as the pandemic helps accelerate preexisting cultural shifts— especially since Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Shopify, and TikTok have all ambled into the space in the past couple of years.
But none of these platforms is the one that catapulted Pink Coconut.
The Hensleys and more than 6,000 other small businesses, mostly in fast fashion, partner with a little-known company called CommentSold, founded four years ago by a serial entrepreneur in Huntsville, Ala. Never in his wildest dreams—or, really, nightmares—did that guy, Brandon Kruse, think he’d be in the women’s clothing
business. But here he is, a pioneer out in front of the tech giants, trying to operate “under the radar,” as he puts it, while generating a billion dollars in sales a year.
LIVESTREAM selling might just be the future of online shopping. “And not in five years,” predicts Suketu Gandhi, a partner at the global consulting firm Kearney. “It’s a two-year journey, thanks to a virus called COVID.” During the pandemic, we’ve all gotten even more used to spending hours on video—bingeing on Netflix, sweating on Peloton, or following influencers on TikTok. It’s not a big leap to shop that way, Gandhi argues. Plus, on the business side, the connection between digital advertising and actual sales has been slowly weakening. Add to that “the death of the cookie”—with browsers like Safari, Firefox, and Google pulling their support of the hidden bits of code that let advertisers follow our online activity and target us, plus Apple letting iPhone users disable personal data tracking—and brands may be scrambling for new ways to reach customers.
Not everyone believes livestream selling will be the solution. “We are trying to shoehorn the type of commerce that works in China into the U.S. market now, but it’s not like users are asking for it,” says Juozas Kaziukėnas, CEO of Marketplace Pulse, an e-commerce research firm. “I think to most people, it feels like a very blatant sale.” It might work on a niche level, he says, but for anything at
scale? “It’s an uphill battle.” Still, it could be a rather lucrative climb. When a retailer hosts a livestream shopping event on its website, it can have conversion rates of 10 to 25 percent on average and even reach 40 percent, according to Ken Fenyo, president of research and advisory at Coresight, who says the conversion rates for digital ads are generally significantly lower. “People want to engage directly with the brand,” he says. “And for that entrepreneur or store associate, it’s a chance to come alive about their passion for what they’re selling in an interactive way.” That can add up to a lot, even for companies with little communities. “What’s amazing about our livestreaming clients,” says CommentSold’s Kruse, “is how small the audience is compared with how much revenue they do.”
HAD IT NOT been for a repo man and an overbooked flight, Kruse would have a very different life at age 31. The repo man showed up when he was 12 to take the family car after his dad lost his job. Seeing that, for Kruse, was like being dropkicked out of childhood. “I wanted to control my own destiny,” he remembers. He started his first business in high school. By the time he turned 21, he’d already sold DialMaxx, a telecom company, to MagicJack for $2.6 million plus a generous earn-out, and went on to launch startups that did data storage for genomic sequencing labs, built call alert systems for the State of Alabama, and various
other things he could never explain at a party.
The overbooked flight, however, would change that. In 2012, Kruse agreed to do some telecom work for Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign. It meant teaming up with an old client who brought his assistant, Amanda Halpin, along for a visit to Huntsville. After five days of Halpin remaining oblivious to Kruse’s attempts at courtship, it was only because her flight back home was overbooked that she accepted his invitation to dinner, where over her ahi tuna salad at the bougiest steak house he could find, she finally caught on. A year and a half later, she moved to Huntsville to be with him.
By then Halpin had become an ER nurse, but she had a weirdly thriving side hustle selling clothes on Facebook. She would buy things she liked wholesale from vendors on FashionGo, where the minimum order was typically six. She’d keep one for herself and sell the other five pieces at an $8 or $10 markup—still way below the retail price. After some experimenting, she started having success with what’s now called “comment selling,” where she’d post photos of the clothes in her Facebook group and followers would comment “sold medium” (or whatever size they were). She called her online shop Discount Divas,
and soon so many of her coworkers had become customers, she took over a bank of lockers in the ER that she turned into makeshift mailboxes for their
One day in 2014, Halpin showed up at Kruse’s office to talk to him about growing Divas. He was working out of an old school building he’d converted into a startup incubator called Huntsville West. Halpin figured maybe she could be part of it.
Kruse couldn’t picture it. He was a telecom guy— Huntsville West was for tech startups. “Do you have anything else?” he asked her. “Because women’s clothes, that’s going to be tough for me to get behind. I mean, you’re literally going to be crushed by the big guys.”
“You think I can’t do it?” she shot back. “I will kill myself proving you wrong.”
“And she did,” says Kruse fondly. Halpin moved Discount Divas into an 80-square-foot closet in Huntsville West and hired her first employee for help invoicing, as well as a 16-year-old named Madeline Daye to come in part-time and put the clothes on hangers. As they got busier, one day Halpin took a striped dress with a tie around the waist to Daye and asked, “Can you try this on and make a video where you just talk about, like, how it fits and how it feels?” After that, she kept asking Daye to do more. “I literally hated it,” says Daye. “I would go home at night and cry.”
Halpin didn’t know that at the time. All she knew was that the videos slowly
started to work: That the whole first year, she had made $8,000; now, sales jumped to $30,000 a month. “Boxes of product were coming out of the closet and kind of infiltrating the coworking space,” Kruse remembers. “If you see a company hustling and growing like that, it’s super motivating to be around.”
Kruse also noticed his girlfriend was up all night with her Google spreadsheets, trying to get a handle on who had paid, who hadn’t, and if they weren’t going to pay, who was next in line. He had always had a hard time passing up a problem he could solve (and he had fallen for her—there was that). “I kind of jumped into the entrepreneurial mode,” he says. “I was like: ‘Let me write a program for you.’ The joke is I’m still working on it.”
IN APRIL 2016, Kruse built an e-commerce system for Halpin and the two got married. Soon Discount Divas was doing $100,000 in sales a month—and Halpin, who changed her last name to Halpin-Kruse, quit nursing. Based on her success, in 2017 Kruse created a platform for multiple retailers and, in homage, called the company CommentSold. As Kruse thought about how to get other clients that year, Divas’ sales soared to $1 million a month.
“When I saw Discount Divas had an automated system, honey, I was on a detective spree trying to figure out where it came from,” says Lorie Beth Thomas, who had a shop called Kaley Jase Boutique in
Brandon Kruse with his wife, Amanda HalpinKruse, at the $1 billion company they built to sell women’s clothes online.
Windsor, N.C. (“the middle of nowhere,” as she puts it). She had been an ER nurse, too, and she became one of CommentSold’s first clients.
The company grew quickly. Kruse charged clients a subscription fee (now between $49 and $149 a month) and also took 3 to 5 percent of their sales. But in 2018, a hiccup nearly tanked it all, and then provided a pivotal insight. CommentSold— which, again, at this point was nothing more than an e-commerce platform—was primarily facilitating sales on Facebook. But during Facebook’s broader investigation after the Cambridge Analytica scandal, of how outside parties were utilizing its data, the social network somehow blocked CommentSold from its system. “For a week, our customers’ revenue was down 80 percent,” says Kruse. “They have families to feed. They have mortgages. And they were very upset. It brought us to our knees.”
Kruse gathered his 25 employees and told them to drop everything and start calling and emailing everyone they could find at Facebook. He booked a ticket to San Francisco with dramatic visions in his head of even getting arrested in the company parking lot, if that’s what it took to get someone’s attention. Fortunately, his team found a random group chat with the email address of a Facebook employee, who got them back on.
That changed Kruse’s approach to business. He’d built a mobile app for CommentSold, but only a
few people were using it. Now he tried to quickly roll it out to all the retailers so they could sell directly to customers. His clients would no longer be beholden to Facebook’s rules and unpredictabilities. He told them, “You own these consumers.”
The app proved to be a smart move, but things were about to radically transform. In 2018, that same year, Thomas, the boutique owner in North Carolina, pinged Kruse with what would be a pivotal message: “Hey, I just did a live video with CommentSold on Facebook.”
This confused Kruse, because the tool didn’t do live video. But Thomas, it turned out, had seen someone do livestream selling on social media, and she wanted to try it. So she managed to trick the system using CommentSold’s e-commerce platform to facilitate these sales. She suggested that Kruse might want to figure out how to make it easier.
Kruse knew livestream shopping was big in China, where influencers went in front of the camera for eight hours a day selling their favorite products from online malls. But would it work here? Who would actually watch a live video for even an hour and buy products?
Nevertheless, he developed a way for retailers to livestream on CommentSold to their Facebook fans, and Divas and Thomas’ shop started doing it. They would go live, say, every Thursday at 7 p.m. and for an hour or two, gab about their families, keto diet progress, the
“You think I can’t do it?” Halpin shot back. “I will kill myself proving you wrong.”…“And she did,” says Kruse fondly.
latest pet bird mishap, and how they loved the way this particular dress they were wearing draped and could be yours for $38—and by the way, there are only three left. They could see all the comments scrolling in (“How’s the sizing?” “Can you wash it in the machine?”) and answer right back. They’d also get an alert that, say, Sally was a new customer and Josie bought a lot, so they could call out, “Hey, Sally; welcome to the group” and “Oh, hi, Josie; good to see you again”—a feature Kruse added after realizing the one-to-one relationship was a key driver. They’d model one item after the other as people commented “Sold.” Sales blew up.
AS COMMENTSOLD’S livestreaming feature took off, Kruse often turned to his mentor, Jim Hudson, for advice. (The two met in 2012, when Kruse loved the energy of Hudson’s genomics-research business hub so much that he lied and pretended to be part of a biotech company so he could have his office there. “When Jim found out,” Kruse says, “he thought that was awesome.”) “Jim was great at nailing what has to change when you get to cer-
tain milestones,” says Kruse. “And that was invaluable to me because it’s so hard to see when you’re right in the middle of it.” Hudson asked Kruse how many employees he had. “When I said 15, he was like, ‘Oh, you’re getting close to my number,’ ” says Kruse. The number was 21: When you have that many employees, Hudson believes, you can no longer rely on everyone at your company to know everything. You must hire specialists. “And sure enough,” Kruse says, “at 21, I’m like, Even the people who were previously perfect in the role now are messing up.” Hudson’s next number was 75. This one was harder for Kruse to swallow. “Jim said, ‘At this point, you have to have a COO—you really need somebody to be the operational mind, so you can step back as the visionary,’ ” Kruse recalls. “I said, ‘But I love operating.’ And he’s like, ‘No, you don’t. You really love building.’ ”
Kruse felt like he was losing touch with his company, but he followed Hudson’s advice. The guy he hired as COO was Andy Smith, formerly cofounder and CEO of the workout company Daily Burn. They knew each other
through the small Huntsville entrepreneur circle. At the time, Smith was taking a year off to play golf, and not getting any better at it. “I’ll be the first to admit, ‘Oh, man, I don’t really get excited about selling wom en’s clothes online,’ ” Smith says. “But what I liked was that there were no inves tors. And when I played with the tool, I thought it sucked—it was broken in so many ways. So I said, ‘This is just a great opportunity.’ ” With the operational details handled, Kruse was able to zero in on his customers to really start kitting out the platform. Soon his retailers could run their entire social e-commerce business on CommentSold, with human experts to guide them.
All the while, Kruse tried to keep the company under the radar. “We wanted to get big and make sure we built the right thing and stayed ahead of everyone,” he says, “because someone could have raised a lot of money and definitely gotten to the market quicker.”
than $100 million of capital flow into the space,” says Chris Erwin, founder of RockWater, a market research and strategy advisory firm.
But staying invisible started getting harder. In 2019, Amazon enabled livestream selling for influencers and brands in its marketplace. Since then, Facebook and Instagram have begun experimenting with it, too, and Walmart is partnering with TikTok for one-off shopping events. Google is also dipping its toes in. Brands like Nordstrom and Estée Lauder are playing with the medium. And other independent apps and platforms, such as TalkShopLive, Bambuser, and ShopShops USA, are hitting the market. “Just since December, we’ve seen more
The pandemic only upped the appeal. For CommentSold, gross merchandise value grew 150 percent in 2020. Of the more than 6,000 clients on the platform today, some 150 do more than $100,000 a month in sales; several do more than $1 million. Now Kruse plans to expand to other kinds of businesses.
“I mean, there’s no way this does not get hypercompetitive,” says Smith. “But that’s what keeps us up at night. We really want to win.”
THIS MARCH, Kruse had something else to keep him
awake: a 3-month-old son named Camden. Divas did $2.7 million in sales that month. And Madeline Daye, the 16-year-old who cried over its first videos? She’s now its director of sales and one of the best livestream sellers in the business; she just bought her first house at age 22.
“Compared to my other companies, this is so cool,” Kruse says, “because I was just trying to solve the problem for one person: What do I need to build to help make your life easier?” That thinking still drives him, even at the scale CommentSold has achieved. It now has a Facebook group for its top 100 customers, where it posts designs for new features and asks for feedback.
And Kruse just implemented a policy for his now 170 employees that requires everyone to spend a day per quarter doing things like onboarding calls and support strategy to make sure they know how the retailers operate.
People always ask when he’ll start a new company. “I do miss it in a weird kind of sadistic way—the pain,” Kruse admits, “because a startup is very exciting.” But his focus remains on solving problems for those in the CommentSold community. “The customers know what they need,” he says, “and you just have to listen to that pain and become obsessed with it.”
Liz Brody is a contributing editor at Entrepreneur.
A
HOW TO BECOME A MASTER AT TALKING TO STRANGERS
Entrepreneurs must become experts at connecting with anyone—and with a few simple strategies, you can. Here’s what happened when I tried them myself. by JOE KEOHANE
Connecting
Acouple of years ago , I started to talk to strangers. That’s not to say I hadn’t talked to strangers before that, because I had. I’m the son and brother of highly social small-business owners, and I’m a journalist, so talking to strangers has been both a way of life and a livelihood for me. And yet, a few years ago I noticed I wasn’t doing it much anymore—if at all. Between balancing a demanding job and a really demanding small child, I was often tired, distracted, and overscheduled. The prospect of striking up conversations with random strangers in coffee shops, or bars, or on the bus started to feel daunting. Eventually, I just stopped doing it.
This was a coping strategy, of course. I was overwhelmed, so something had to go. And talking to strangers can, as it turns out, be taxing. Psychologists have found that just making small talk with a stranger can be cognitively demanding, tiring, and even stressful. That makes sense. You don’t know the person, you don’t know where the conversation is going, so you must pay closer attention than you would if you were talking to someone you know well. But psychologists have found that talking to a stranger actually boosts your mental performance—for that same reason: It’s a workout. I was saving myself a bit of effort, but I also noticed that my life was becoming less interesting, less surprising, maybe even a little lonely.
After my epiphany, I got to wondering: Why don’t we talk to strangers more, what happens when we do, and how can we get better at it? It turns out, many researchers are asking the same questions. I started flying around the world to meet them: psychologists, evolutionary scientists, historians, urban planners, entrepreneurs, sociologists, and—you guessed it—a ton of fascinating strangers I met along the way. They all taught me that talking to strangers can not only be fun but also enhance our sense of well-being, make us smarter, expand our social and professional networks, and even help us overcome some of our most intractable social problems. (I detail this all in my new book, The Power of Strangers: The Benefits of Connecting in a Suspicious World.)
And as I researched the book, I kept coming back to the implications talking to strangers could have for entrepreneurs. Because I come from a family of small-business owners— and for a while served as executive editor at this magazine—I have seen firsthand how beneficial it is for businesspeople to hone those social skills. I have also spoken to a lot of college professors who lament that their students struggle to make the sorts of serendipitous social connections that will serve them so well once they start their careers. And, like all of us, I’m coming out of a year spent in relative quarantine. I’m rusty on these skills and need to get used to the sorts of fun, fruitful, and, yes, sometimes difficult freewheeling social interactions we were deprived of for more than a year.
All of which is to say, I decided that I needed to become an expert at talking to strangers. How? I signed up for a class unlike anything I’d ever taken before and bought a plane ticket to London.
OUR JOURNEY begins on a bright day in a small classroom at Regent’s University. I’m sitting on a chair, limp with jet lag, clutching my third cup of coffee. There are four other people there, too. They appear to be functioning at a higher level than I am, thankfully. We have come to this classroom to learn how to talk to strangers.
Our teacher is an energetic 20-something named Georgie Nightingall. She’s
the founder of Trigger Conversations, an acclaimed London-based “human connection organization” that hosts social events and immersive workshops aimed at helping people have meaningful interactions with strangers. Since she founded it in 2016, Nightingall has done more than 100 events and many training sessions—with strangers, companies, communities, universities, and conferences, both in London and around the world.
Nightingall has learned that, for a lot of people, the hardest thing about talking to strangers is initiating the conversation: approaching someone, making them feel safe, and quickly conveying the idea that you don’t have an agenda, that you’re just being friendly or curious. She found that older people are much more likely to initiate a conversation, for instance, whereas younger people require a little more assurance. But she also found that in all her own attempts to speak to strangers, the vast majority of those interactions were substantial, and many went great.
She came to believe, too—and this is important—that making a practice of talking to strangers could offer more than a jolt of good feeling for an individual. There was joy in it, profundity, real communion. If practiced widely enough, she believed it could help repair a fracturing society. “We’re not just talking about a few individualized things,” she says. “We’re talking about a different way to live.”
NIGHTINGALL stands before our class, bright, engaging, and articulate, and walks us through what to expect over the coming days. She wants to take us “from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence, and from conscious competence to unconscious competence,” she says. In other words, we are currently bad at this and we’re unaware of why or how. We will learn what we are lacking. We will improve on it. And we will, hopefully, become so proficient that it will become second nature to us.
Our first lesson is small talk. A lot of people hate small talk, which is understandable, because a lot of small talk is deadly boring. Nightingall concedes the point. Yes, she says, small talk can be dull. But that’s because most people don’t understand what it’s for. It’s not the conversation. It’s the opener for a better conversation. It’s a way to get comfortable with one another and cast around for something you want to talk about. That, she says, is why it’s important to be aware of your response when someone asks something like “What do you do?” You are failing to understand what that question is really asking, which is this: “What should you and I talk about?”
Nightingall came to this insight via a couple of sources. She had done improv comedy in the past, and in improv, you start a sketch with something familiar to everyone in the audience—something relevant, timely, or present in the room—to bind the
room together. Only then can you really take the audience on a ride. That’s small talk. But Nightingall has also followed the work of social anthropologist Kate Fox, who has studied, for instance, the seemingly inexhaustible English desire to discuss weather. While some critics have pointed to this affinity as evidence of a listless and unimaginative people, Fox argued that weather wasn’t the point. Instead, it is a means of social bonding, a greeting ritual. “English weather-speak is a form of code, evolved to help us overcome our natural reserve and actually talk to each other,” Fox writes. The content is not the point— familiarity, connection, and reassurance are. Once those are in place, a real conversation can happen.
When you recognize that small talk is just a door to a better conversation, Nightingall says, then it can be useful, because it’s structured in a way that naturally leads you toward common ground. We have all experienced how these conversations, if given the time, can move in ever-tightening circles until you both zero in on something you have in common and want to talk about. With that in place, you can wander, get a little personal, go deeper. But it’s probably on you to take it there, Nightingall says. “Everyone is interesting, but it’s not up to them to show you—it’s up to you to discover it.”
The best way to discover that interesting stuff, Nightingall says, is by “breaking the script.” That
means using the techniques of small talk, but resisting the temptation to go on autopilot. For example, you go into a store and say, “How are you doing?” and the clerk says, “Fine; how are you?” and the conversation contains no information and goes nowhere. That’s a script. We use scripts to make interactions more efficient, particularly in busy, dense, fast-moving places like big cities. But in doing so, we deny ourselves the chance at a better experience and maybe a new contact, and we wall ourselves off from all the benefits that can come from talking to strangers.
So how do you break those scripts? With specificity and surprise, Nightingall says. For example, when someone says, “How are you?” she doesn’t
Connecting
say, “Fine.” Instead, she says, “I’d say I’m a 7.5 out of 10.” She briefly explains why she’s a 7.5, asks them how they’re doing, and then just waits. This is when mirroring kicks in; it’s a phenomenon where people naturally follow the lead of their conversational partners. If you say something generic, they will say something generic. If you say something specific, they are likely to as well. Thus, because Nightingall gave a number, her partner is likely to give a number themselves. If they say they’re a 6, Nightingall will ask, “What’ll it take to get you to an 8?” This specificity creates a light atmosphere and makes it harder for the other person to maintain the belief that you’re of a lesser mind, because it instantly demonstrates complexity, feeling, and humor: humanity, in other words. “Straightaway, they’re like, ‘Oh, you’re a human,’ ” Nightingall says. “You have that bond, and then, naturally, things open up.”
Here are other ways Nightingall suggests breaking a script. When a shop clerk asks, “Can I help you?” you can reply, “Can I help you?” Or instead of asking people at a party what they do, ask them what they’d like to do more of, or what they don’t do. Or instead of asking someone how their day went, ask, “Has your day lived up to your expectations?” All these things require a certain measure of confidence to pull off, Nightingall says. But they work. And when they do, they will reveal
a little nugget of what it’s like to be that person. That is meaningful, because that nugget is indicative of what is beneath the surface. “How you do anything is how you do everything,” Nightingall says. That nugget tells you where to go next in the conversation.
ONCE YOU’VE established a little connection, what do you do? I normally start asking questions. Which makes sense: I’m showing an interest in the other person, and I demonstrate my interest by indulging my curiosity. But one paradox about talking to a stranger, Nightingall explains, is that while curiosity is indispensable, a barrage of questions out of the gate can feel like prying, or an interview. They don’t quite know where you’re coming from yet, and they don’t know if you have some kind of agenda. Even one personal question asked too early can create an uncomfortable dynamic because you’re asking something of someone. You’re making a demand.
Nightingall suggests that statements, not questions, can be a better way to open a conversation. A question compels an answer, whereas a statement leaves it up to the other person to decide whether they want to talk. It’s not a demand; it’s an offer. You notice something about your shared surroundings, offer an observation, and leave it to the other party to respond. If they do, you respond with another statement that builds on what they said.
These observations should ideally not be moronic—“I noticed that the sun came up today!”— but they can be simple. Like weather talk in England, the point is to indicate a shared experience. Nightingall has found that proximity helps, too. If you are at a museum, walking right up to someone looking at a painting and blurting out “What do you think?” is very different from making an observation about a painting after standing next to them for 30 seconds looking at it. That’s because you have been in their proximity. They have adjusted to your being there, and you have demonstrated a measure of self-control. Then you can speak. It feels less like an invasion.
One day in class, my fellow students and I pair off to practice our technique. I’m partnered with “Paula,” who tells me that one of her favorite things is making a cup of good coffee for herself on the weekends and just sitting alone. I try to remember Nightingall’s advice about opening with statements, not questions, but now we’re in a groove—so I dig in. After four questions, Paula is talking about how resentful she is at having to work for other people. I’m obviously quite pleased with myself as I trot back to Nightingall with this pheasant in my mouth. But she is less impressed. She delicately explains that while “it’s clear you’re a person who asks questions for a living,” everything about my body language suggested I was
looking for something to pounce on. I asked questions too quickly, she said. I was leaning forward. This wasn’t a conversation; it was an interview. Possibly an interrogation.
Nightingall suggested asking simpler and more open-ended questions. Instead of saying, “Do you think this was because you were a control freak?” just echo, or say, “Why do you think that is?” That is the opposite of what I usually do, but it’s what I must learn to do. In a good conversation, you must relinquish control. Your job is to help your partner arrive at their own conclusion and surprise you, not to ferret out whatever it is, slap a bow on it, and go, Next! There’s a powerful lesson there: If you’re interested only in things you know you’re interested in, you will never be surprised. You’ll never learn anything new, or gain a fresh perspective, or make a new friend or contact. The key to talking to strangers, it turns out, is letting go, letting them lead. Then the world opens itself to you.
WHY DON’T we talk to strangers? The answer I heard, over and over again from experts, is simply that we don’t talk to strangers. In many places, for many reasons, it has become a social norm, and social norms are really powerful. That is why Nightingall uses what she calls a foolproof method to not just violate the norm—but to openly acknowledge that you are violating the norm. She asks us to imagine
riding mass transit, which, as we know, is the last place anyone ever talks to a stranger. There is someone who strikes us as interesting. We can’t turn to that person and say, “Why do I find you so interesting?” because if you said something like that to a stranger on the subway, they’re going to assume this is the initiation of a chain of events that will ultimately conclude with their becoming crude homemade taxidermy. So Nightingall suggests something called a pre-frame. It’s an idea based in the field of neurolinguistic programming, which coaches people to “reframe” the possible negative thoughts of others— in essence redefining their expectations for the interaction to come. Ordinarily, we might be wary if a stranger just starts talking to us. We don’t know who they are, or what they want, or whether they’re right in the head. What a pre-frame does is reassure them that you know all this. To do it, you acknowledge out of the gate that this is a violation of a social norm. You say something like “Look, I know we’re not supposed to talk to people on the subway, but…” This demonstrates that you’re in full possession of your faculties. You’re not erratic, disturbed, or otherwise off in some way. It helps alleviate wariness and opens the possibility of a connection. Once that is established, Nightingall says, you follow the pre-frame with your statement—“I really like your sunglasses,” for instance. Then you follow
that with a justification: “I just lost mine and I’ve been looking for a new pair.” The justification eases the person’s suspicion that you have some kind of agenda and allows you to talk a little more openly.
That’s when questions become more important, Nightingall says. Questions serve a multitude of functions, which is why, as I learned in my exercise with Paula, they can be so complicated. Yes, questions help you obtain information. And yes, on a deeper level, they help your conversational partner clarify the point they are trying to make. But they also help us emotionally bond with other people. In a series of studies in 2017, psychologist Karen Huang and her colleagues discovered that “people who ask more questions, particularly follow-up questions, are better liked by their conversation partners.” Those who ask more questions, the authors found, are perceived as higher in responsiveness—which is defined as “listening, understanding, validation, and care.” In other words, people like us because we are interested in them.
And yet, the researchers noted, people tend not to ask a lot of questions. Why? Several reasons. “First,” Huang writes, “people may not think to ask questions at all…because people are egocentric— focused on expressing their own thoughts, feelings, and beliefs with little or no interest in hearing what another person has to say. Or they may be so dis-
“People may not think to ask questions at all…because they are egocentric. They are focused on expressing their own thoughts, feelings, or beliefs with little or no interest in hearing what another person has to say.”
tracted by other aspects of the conversation that they do not realize that asking a question is an option.”
Even if a question does pop into someone’s head, they may not ask it, because they worry it’ll land badly and be “perceived as rude, inappropriate, intrusive, or incompetent.” In these cases, people will probably just talk about themselves, which studies show they do twice as often as they talk about other matters— which, ironically, makes people like them less. (Good work, everybody.)
But what’s a good question to ask? Nightingall has us complete an exercise in which we are given banal statements—the sort commonly offered in small talk—and tasked with coming up with good questions. For instance, one student says she ran along the Thames yesterday. There is almost nothing in the world less interesting to me than running, and usually I’d take this as my cue to begin plotting my escape. But, working from the idea that small talk is the means, not the end, the class brainstorms good questions
to ask that might lead to something more personal or interesting: “Do you run every day?” “Is that a passion for you?” “What would you do if you couldn’t run every day?” I suggest, “What are you running from?” which is meant as a joke, but the class seems to go for it.
Then we move on to the flip side of question-asking: It is listening. When people do start talking, you must listen, make eye contact, and generally show you’re engaged. We know this, of course. But we are not always good at showing it. Two effective techniques to signal engagement are paraphrasing what people have just said—“It seems like you’re saying…”—and echoing— which is simply occasionally repeating things your partner just said—both of which are commonly used by therapists and hostage negotiators to foster connection and build trust. For instance, if they say, “I guess at that point I was frustrated,” you say, “You were frustrated.” This seems deeply weird and unnatural, and feels awkward to
Connecting
do, and if you overdo it, your partner is going to think something’s wrong with you. But I am here to attest that, done well, it is extremely effective. It’s like a magic trick. Researchers have concluded as much. According to the French psychologists Nicolas Guéguen and Angélique Martin, “Research has shown that mimicry…leads to greater liking of the mimicker” and helps create rapport during a social interaction.
Nightingall breaks down listening into three levels. There is listening for things you know about. That’s the most superficial level. That’s when someone says something about baseball and you jump on it and start talking about baseball. Then there is listening for information—you show curiosity about someone but your questions are about collecting factual data. That’s also more about you and your interests. And then there’s the deepest level of listening: listening for experiences, feelings, motivations, and values. That kind of listening is more than simply hearing, or self-affirmation. It’s paying attention and endeavoring to understand. It is demonstrated with eye contact, echoing, and paraphrasing, and it can be deepened by asking clarifying questions—Why? How? Who?—that help the person get to the heart of the matter.
In other words, at this level of listening, you are not simply listening for something you want to talk about, or offering
advice, or trying to think of something smart to say in response. It’s not about your agenda. It is a level of engagement that is about helping your partner get to what they really want to talk about, and you going along for the ride. You still want to talk about yourself a bit, Nightingall says— to give a little, and not leave the person feeling like you’ve just rummaged around in the bureau of their personal life and made off with a watch. But you want most of the focus to be on them. It is, again, a form of hospitality. You are hosting someone. You are surrendering a measure of control. You are giving them space. You are taking a risk. That risk opens you to the potential rewards of talking to a stranger.
DURING LUNCH and after class, I try out some of these techniques around London. I ask a 20-something bartender at a pub if the day has met her expectations, and she confesses with very little prompting that yes, it has. She’s about to quit her day job. She feels she’s been sold a bill of goods about the merits of a straight corporate career, and she’s going to empty her savings and travel the world. She hasn’t told anyone this yet, she says. But she will soon.
At lunch at a Lebanese takeout restaurant, I ask the owner what menu items he’s most proud of— because that’s what I want. He starts taking bits of this and that and dropping them into my bag. I tell him I grew up in a white
neighborhood, and when I was a kid, a Lebanese family moved in behind us and used to hand us plates over the fence of what was at that time very exotic food. Since then, Lebanese food has always been among my favorites. Curiously, when I eat it, I think about home. This, as Nightingall instructed, was me opening up the conversation with a statement, not a question. The owner tells me that in Lebanon, that kind of hospitality is a big deal; people always make a lot of food for visitors. While he talks, he keeps dropping more food into my bag. When he’s done, the bag weighs about five pounds and he charges me for maybe a third of it.
At the end of the final day of class, Nightingall tells us that practice will be everything. Some encounters will go poorly, she says, and some will be great, but in time, we will get more comfortable with doing this as we internalize the techniques we have learned. We will be able to get a little bolder or more playful. Our confidence, tone, and body language will alleviate people’s wariness at the flagrant violation of a social norm of long standing.
Indeed, Nightingall is something of a wizard at this. She once started a conversation with a man on the tube just by pointing at his hat, smiling, and saying, simply, “Hat.” She will randomly high-five people in the street, she says. She smiles at people going the opposite direction down an escalator just to see if they’ll
smile back. She doesn’t order an Americano; she orders “the best Americano in the world.” And people respond. During a break one day, I walked into the campus Starbucks to get more coffee. Nightingall was already in there, talking animatedly with a barista she’d never met before. When she and I walked out, she told me he gave her the coffee on the house.
Nightingall’s free coffee, my Lebanese meal—these were not coincidences. As I learned repeatedly while testing techniques of talking to strangers, I’d often be rewarded with free food. There are, of course, far more fruitful, meaningful, and valuable reasons to talk to strangers. But the food stuck with me. Then I realized why: When you start a good conversation with a stranger, it’s like you’re giving them an uncommon gift. And more often than not, they want to give you something in return.
AdaptedfromThe Power of Strangers: The Benefits of Connecting in a Suspicious World, outnowfromRandom HouseBooks.
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WHAT I’VE LEARNED FROM DOING 500 SALES CALLS
Want to increase your sales?
Rather than manipulate your potential clients, serve them.
by NEIL GORDON
sales calls, I’m usually the guy doing the selling. But recently, I took on a different role: I was the client being pitched. The stakes for the salesperson were high because they were trying to sell me a five-figure product.
ONTruth be told, I couldn’t wait for it to be over. The offer itself was fine, but the salesperson was dreadful. She tried to manipulate me into buying, which made me feel like I needed a shower. But even worse, it left me frustrated about the entire sales industry. I’ve interacted with too many salespeople who think trickery is the only way to land a sale.
It’s just not true.
In fact, I have been on the receiving end of several sales pitches that weren’t remotely manipulative and successfully led to my saying yes—even if the offer was priced at five figures.
The difference? I actually believed that the salesperson wanted to help me to grow my business.
That’s it.
This isn’t just me and my own temperament as a buyer. It’s something I’ve proven in sales myself. I have personally conducted more than 500 sales calls in the past couple of years and received a yes from about half of those people. This taught me that effective sales has little to do with manipulation. Instead, it has everything to do with being of genuine service.
Let’s begin by considering the difference between manipulation and service. I’ll admit that as I thought about how to write this story, I felt a conundrum: Isn’t any sales tactic, even one that’s done in earnest, ultimately a form of manipulation that’s designed to boost the bottom line?
The answer is yes and no. Sure, a service-oriented sales approach is a way to make money. It could even be argued that all deliberate communication is manipulative in nature because any technique— such as asking certain questions or telling emotionally charged stories—is intended to move people toward a certain end.
However, the difference between acts of manipulation and acts of service comes down to the sales-
person’s intent. Two salespeople might both want to sell the same things to their clients, and they might do this by telling the same stories or asking similar questions. But their intentions can be totally different.
The manipulative salesperson tells a story that will make their potential client feel an intense mixture of fear and hope. This heightened emotional state may make them both want to get rid of the fear and perpetuate the hope. They may then want to buy because they believe the offer in question will lessen the fear and raise the hope. They’ve been manipulated.
The second salesperson, however, tells a similar story that teaches the potential client the significance of the offer. The story may feature a person who first worked without their product or service and then explain what improved when they began using it, and it could demonstrate what this potential client could expect if they engage in a similar process. The story helps the potential client experience greater clarity around the offer, and if they do buy, it is because they’ve been educated.
There is, admittedly, a fine line between manipulation and service since we could theoretically do very similar things on the surface but have fundamentally different intentions underneath. That’s why I’ve provided the tips below for having better sales conversations, and how to turn sales into acts of service.
Tip 1 Start with where.
Many of us have heard how important it is to build a rapport with our potential client at the beginning of a call. This usually takes the form of a conversation that isn’t about the potential client’s needs or how our offer might help them fulfill those needs.
I believe in the value of building rapport at the beginning; it lessens the feeling that the conversation is merely a transaction. We begin our act of service by simply treating them as a person rather than a prospect.
But many people fulfill this task with a general, open-ended question like “What’s your week been like?” or even “How have you been during the pandemic?” Others will simply resort to discussing mundane things like the weather.
Rapport is more likely to happen when the salesperson expresses genuine curiosity about something specific in a potential client’s life. This must be done delicately. If you wind up being too specific—such as studying someone’s Facebook profile and citing something super personal—you’ll come off as a creepy stalker.
That’s why it can be simple but powerful to start with where the person lives. If you’ve already found this out from somewhere online or their phone number’s area code, then you can simply say, “You’re in (location), right?” If you don’t yet know, you can ask something like “Where in the country (or world) are you?”
This might seem just
as banal and useless as talking about the weather. But the difference is in what you ask next. With the geography out of the way, you then get to ask why they live there. You could ask something like “Did you grow up in that area, or are you a more recent transplant?” Then, based on their response, you could ask them another follow-up about their family (if they said they wanted to stay close to family) or how it compares to what it was like when they moved there (if they moved there several decades ago).The point is to start very simply but then move into a more substantive dialogue where you actually learn something about who they are and what they value. In this way, it is meaningful conversation disguised as small talk.
Tip 2 Frame the call.
Imagine if you went to see a surgeon because you had a health issue and the surgeon signed you up for surgery without even telling you what they were going to do while you were on the table. You’d spend the time before surgery in as much darkness as you would under anesthesia, which is likely to be very anxiety-inducing.
This is what it’s like when someone delves into a sales conversation without first framing the call. Without giving the potential client a clear expectation of what the call will entail, the client will spend much of the time unsure of where they stand. This
will cause them to keep their guard up, which will erode any of the rapport you previously established. Conversely, if you frame the call around what they can expect and then completely fulfill those expectations, you’ve shown them that you are a person of your word and that you’ll continue to inspire that kind of trust moving forward.
This act can take shape in many ways, but I like to say something along the lines of “So to be sure we’re on the same page, what I intend to do is ask you about (insert topics), and then if it seems like this would be a good fit, I can show you what it will look like for us to work together. But if something else would serve you more, then I can discuss that with you instead. Does that sound all right?” If you say that last part about discussing a different course of action, then it is of course imperative that you honestly intend to steer them toward a different solution if working with you isn’t a fit.
Tip 3 Do
an investigation rather than a performance. Remember that old Kohler commercial in which a couple visits an architect at his fancy firm? The architect spends the whole first half of the commercial touting his firm’s many accolades and credits, and then, finally, in the last few seconds before it cuts to the Kohler logo, the wife of the couple tells him to design a house around one of their faucets that she’s been keeping in her bag.
As absurd as the commercial might be, the first half of it is exactly how many people approach a sales conversation. They make it about themselves.
That’s what I experienced on the sales call I described at the beginning of this article. That person opened the call by talking about herself, told me her life story, and then asked me what I loved about the company she worked for. She essentially expected that I had already formed good opinions about it. These behaviors were a problem to me for many
reasons, but most of all because she committed the most basic sin of sales: She made the call about herself instead of her potential client.
If you want your sales conversations to be an act of service, you must make your interaction about the other person. Drive the entire conversation forward as if it’s an investigation into their world—how they came to be, where they are at, why it’s important for them to solve the problem, and why they feel that now is a good time to solve it. On the other side of this inquiry, you’ll not only help them to feel seen and heard, but you’ll also be able to determine if they’re a good fit for your services.
Tip 4 Demand questions.
“Have any questions?”
Every salesperson has asked something like that. It’s a standard practice: After you wrap up a presentation, you invite the client to inquire about it. But there is a far better way to transition the conversation.
You say this: “Ask me a question.”
That’s a tip from Charles Gaudet, founder of the business coaching firm Predictable Profits. Although Gaudet has a team that conducts sales calls alongside him, his records suggest that in April 2021 he closed 78 percent of his potential clients himself.
After describing the services he is selling, he says he always transitions with that demand: Ask me a question. “I do it this way,” he explained when I interviewed him, “because if we did our job right during the sales presentation, they will ask for the close. By asking for the close, they won’t feel like they’re being sold to. And if they don’t ask for the close, they’ll ask a question related to an objection that would stop them from doing business with us. After we answer the question, we repeat, ‘Ask me a question.’ As salespeople, we are often wrong at guessing when they are ready. When they ask for it, they are telling you: ‘I’m ready.’”
We serve the prospective client more by waiting until they are ready rather than expecting them to be.
Tip 5 Make the offer instead of asking permission to make it. Many salespeople will say, “Do I have your permission to make my offer?” or “Is it OK for me to show you what it would look like to work with me?” Imagine if your arteries started hemorrhaging blood in the middle of surgery and the surgeon brought you out of the anesthesia to ask you for permission to stop the bleeding. That would be ridiculous! However, after spending what is sometimes nearly an hour building rapport and authority, many salespeople feel that if the potential client gives permission, they will be more amenable to saying yes to the offer.
You might be uncomfortable with being direct, but not setting this container around your expertise from the beginning will likely compromise how well you collaborate in the future. After you complete your investigation with a potential client and conclude that they will get powerful outcomes from working with you, you are basically obligated to make your offer. Permission has nothing to do with it.
NOT LONG AFTER my conversation with that terrible salesperson, I heard from a different salesperson who also tried to sell me a five-figure service. This call went differently. The new person drove the entire conversation with curiosity about my goals and intentions, and did not burden me with sales tricks.
I said yes immediately.
This second person had shown me that his priority was to help me grow my business. The first salesperson could also have been successful in getting me to say yes, but I just didn’t believe her company could help me. She gave me no reason to trust her.
Keep this in mind the next time you make a sales call. If your offer really will enrich the lives of those who consume it, then providing it is ultimately an act of service.
That means selling it is an act of service as well.
Neil Gordon is a speaking coach and a communication expert.
MORE IS MORE
Why do many franchise systems prefer working with multi-unit operators? We dig into four different companies— learning why they recruit franchisees the way they do, and what life is like for someone who owns multiple units.
by STEPHANIE SCHOMER
AMAZING LASH STUDIO GROWS WITH ITS TEAM
Why the Brand Seeks Multi-Unit Owners
Amazing Lash Studio exists to make its customers look good. The eyelash-extension franchise serves members at 260-plus studios across the United States. But from a business standpoint, Amazing Lash also exists to serve its network of staff and franchisees. The company expects growth to continue at a pace of 30 to 40 new locations this year, and it’s targeting markets with low lash-studio saturation and a high opportunity for growth. To do that effectively, it’s
looking for prospective franchisees with big goals— which is why 70 percent of its current franchisees are multi-unit operators.
“It’s not that we shy away from folks interested in owning single units, but for brand-new markets, we’re really looking for multi-unit owners who can become the single player in the area,” says Lauren Wanamaker, senior director of development. “And right now, in this climate, we’re really starting to see some novice franchisees who have a desire to create their own future and capture and protect an investment, from a long-term strategy.”
To find the right franchisees, Wanamaker and her team aren’t limiting themselves to people with the obvious backgrounds. They don’t care if someone has franchise or salon expe-
rience. Instead, they look for passion—and a desire to grow and empower a team.
“We are not a business where you can put a manager in place and walk away; it doesn’t work that way,” Wanamaker says. “At any given time, there are 20 to 30 people in a studio. That requires a fairly large team. So we need operators who want to build a team and really help those team members build their own careers within that business.”
The way Amazing Lash sees it, multi-unit operators can create more opportunity for everyone—enabling staff to work across multiple locations, acquiring a great number of loyal clients within a region, and rising through the ranks within the broader franchise organization. “The efficiencies in our business lie with the staff and the people,” Wanamaker says.
ELAINA WATLEY signed on as an Amazing Lash Studio franchisee in 2016. At the time, she was a new mom who’d spent her career in sports marketing, and she was looking for a secondary income and a role that would allow her to work with and support women. Today, she owns five locations across New Jersey, is exploring her sixth—and swears by the success and impact multi-unit ownership can create.
You started with one store and now have five. In hindsight, do you wish you had opened multiple locations at once? Yes; I will give everyone that advice. Don’t make my mistakes. Purchase multiple locations, and believe in yourself.
Did managing the business become easier as you opened more locations?
Scale creates sustainability. Across my locations, we have the same culture, the same strategy. We deal with leads and prospects the same; we offer the same customer service, digital marketing, brand messaging. And it’s helped me find a balance between my goals for myself as an entrepreneur, a mother, and a leader.
How do you support your growing staff?
Though the girls are employed by me and Amazing Lash, I want them to see their work as an entrepreneurial endeavor. They’re building their client base, and so this business can be their own. I’ve hosted financial planning classes at night and taught them about marketing their brand on social media, and really promoting their own artistry and creating confidence in their work. From a Multi-Unit Franchisee’s Perspective
POLLO CAMPERO PLAYS OFFENSE IN THE CHICKEN WARS
Why the Brand Seeks
Multi-Unit Owners
Quick-service chicken restaurants have become a booming, hyper-competitive space in recent years. Although Sam Wong spent 10 years of his career at Popeyes Louisiana Kitchen, he is now happy to put all his eggs in the Pollo Campero basket.
Wong is the director of franchising at Pollo Campero, which has grown to 350-plus locations around the world since it started as a family-owned restaurant in Guatemala in 1971. Now the brand’s beloved traditional recipes create such excitement that new locations in the U.S. often draw five-hour lines
upon opening.
Wong thinks he can spot a brand that’s ready to pop, and it’s why he flew to Pollo Campero. “In 2002 at Popeyes, we were considered a third-tier brand, and I couldn’t get landlords to take our phone calls,” he says. “Now, of course, every landlord wants Popeyes. And Pollo Campero is next—we’re preparing for that now.”
That preparation relies heavily on developing multi-unit franchisees who can sign on for a minimum three-store agreement.
Wong says the brand’s ideal franchisee profile is based on four buckets: financial capability, operational experience, development knowledge, and culture fit. “That overlaps with the attributes of some of the best multi-unit operators in the country,” Wong says. “But I don’t mean institutional franchisees who own
200, 300, or 400 locations— that doesn’t fit our growth profile. We are looking for the middle trend of multiunit franchisees, guys who own 10, 15, or 20 stores and can be present.”
His growth plan also involves capitalizing on the realities and impact of the pandemic: Small-business closures across the country created a surplus of retail storefronts and spaces, and Wong sees an opportunity to lay the foundation for big growth.
“It’s a small bit of good news for our brand as we come out of the pandemic,” he says. “For brands like Starbucks and McDonald’s, it can feel like a game of Monopoly: ‘I already put a burger concept here, so no other burger concepts can exist now.’ It’s our turn. We’re going to put Pollo Campero here and own it. I feel good about our potential.”
From a Multi-Unit Franchisee’s Perspective
ANDY
CABRAL had created a robust business with his mom and brother, operating multiple Dunkin’ locations on the East Coast. In 2011, they opened their first Pollo Campero after signing a multi-unit agreement—and had to adapt to a very different strategy. Now he’s working to care for (and grow) both sides of the operation.
What’s different about growing the Pollo Campero operation versus Dunkin’?
You have to be a little more strategic about growth. You can put a Dunkin’ on every corner, but Campero is less known. So to capture the market, we’re looking for that Central American customer who will be familiar with these recipes. We’re in the D.C. area, working across Virginia and Maryland, where there are a lot of Central Americans. The first week of our first location in 2011, we served 20,000 people— 75 percent above our projection.
What’s it like being a multi-unit owner across multiple brands?
We thought we’d pick up staffing efficiencies, but we learned that the culture of Dunkin’—get customers in and out fast— doesn’t translate to the customer service of Campero, where people sit and linger and talk. So operationally, they don’t cross each other. But it has created synergies for office services, like payroll and HR.
What’s your goal with Pollo Campero?
It’s less about store count and more about sales volume. The brand has been really helpful when it comes to looking for more locations that make sense. We’re about to sign another development agreement that will expand our reach to Virginia.
From a Multi-Unit Franchisee’s Perspective
ADVENTURE PARK EXPANDS ITS OFFERINGS AND ITS NEEDS
Why the Brand Seeks Multi-Unit Owners
Urban Air Adventure
Park is trying to corner the market on fun. The company launched in 2011 as an indoor trampoline park, but as competition in that space grew, it doubled down on good times and has now evolved into a full-fledged indoor adventure park with everything from go-karts and indoor skydiving to laser tag and a fast-casual restaurant.
When the brand started franchising in 2014, it took a mom-and-pop approach— focusing on single-unit
But as Urban Air’s success and profile grew, it shifted its focus in 2018 to recruiting more experienced multi-unit owners, as well as developing them from within…which can often be the bigger challenge.
“My wife and I have three daughters. Having kids has been amazing, but it was a lot tougher going from one kid to two than it was to go from two to three, and the same is true of franchise expansion,” says Josh Wall, chief growth officer of Unleashed Brands, Urban Air’s parent company. “Helping a franchisee go from a single park to two may sound like an incremental increase in their effort, but it really is like a 100 percent increase in effort.”
To help guide franchi-
just providing franchisees with the tools they need to grow but making sure that both parties are aligned when it comes to a clear mission and goals.
“I’m not interested in someone increasing their exposure if they don’t have a clearly defined thesis,” he says. That can be as simple as building a multiunit business with geographic concentricity or wanting to create opportunity for top-performing staff. “When we understand those motivations, the plan starts to unfold. That’s when I get excited— much more than if someone says, ‘Boy, I’m really enjoying this 35 percent margin.’ Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but we get more fired up about a passionate plan.”
The lesson was, we should have opened multiple locations right away. If you believe in the brand, capitalize on it and move quickly, otherwise territories get consumed and the dogs are left.
Was it difficult moving into multi-unit territory?
It’s kind of like going from having one to two kids.
That’s exactly what your franchisor said.
That’s so funny; I promise we didn’t rehearse this! But it did force us to divide and conquer as owners, and to find efficiencies—like we were able to use our first location as a training facility for our management team as we got our second store set up. We’re getting ready to open a third now, and I do feel like it will be easier. With every location, you get a little smarter.
DUNKIN’ MAKES BIG MOVES WITH BIG OPERATORS
Why the Brand Seeks Multi-Unit Owners
America runs on Dunkin’, as the slogan goes—and Dunkin’ runs on multi-unit franchisees. The company has around 2,300 franchisees within its system, and an estimated 85 percent are multi-unit operators. A handful even qualify as “mega” franchisees, with more than 200 stores within their networks.
“There are many pros to working with multi-unit operators,” says Grant Benson,
senior vice president of franchising and development at Inspire Brands, parent company to Dunkin’. “One is that as you bring forward business opportunities to franchise networks, you really only need to gain endorsement from that operator to make a big impact.”
Benson points to new marketing initiatives or operations-based programs and changes, which the company invests in and vets before asking individual franchisees to implement. Getting buy-in from an operator with 50 locations makes an impact, instantly. “Multiunit operators can create big wins,” Benson says. “Those conversations are important when we’re working with
owners with just a couple of units, but then we’re impacting just a couple of stores.”
But, Benson says, the responsibility is ultimately on him and his team to create the kind of growth opportunities that franchisees— regardless of store count—will want to take advantage of.
“Our franchisees are very smart and very entrepreneurial,” he says. “If we’re asking them to pursue an opportunity that may require reinvestment, we’d better be sure there will be a solid return for them. And especially with multi-unit owners, we’re here to provide stability and support as they scale. If we do that, we can build a solid, trusting relationship.”
From a Multi-Unit Franchisee’s Perspective
TARU PATEL has been part of the Dunkin’ family for 28 years, and she currently owns 19 stores across Indiana and one in Illinois. What’s the key to her success and continued growth? Faith in her franchisor, and faith in her team.
You started with two locations and now have 20, with three more in the works. What has that growth been like? There are so many tools available to you as you grow, especially to help you train your crew. We’re hands-on about
follow-up—we don’t sit in an office as owners. So we’re out seeing and recognizing the dedication of our managers and leaders, and we empower them, because if those leaders and managers are happy, your whole team will be happy.
What kind of support do you get from the franchisor?
Over the past 15 years, that relationship has really shifted, and we feel like a team. I can pick up the phone and get my director or VP at any time. That’s a big thing for our business.
Is there a number of stores you’d like to reach?
There’s no limit! But I want to make sure we grow intentionally and not just to grow. Accuracy and cleanliness and standards and systems are important. To create that with the help of your managers and corporate leadership is important. With all that help, you can succeed, 100 percent.
STAYING AHEAD OF CHANGE
Yousuf Ali had a successful career in marketing until he failed to embrace new technologies. Now, as a My Eyelab franchisee, embracing forward-thinking capabilities is the key to his success.
by STEPHANIE SCHOMER
STEPHANIE
thought it was temporary, something that wouldn’t catch on. And I was
from the ground up, so I attended various franchise trade shows to see what
B2B, I was used to the luxury of time—spending hours and hours getting to know clients. In the B2C world, customer service is different. You have to do it well, but you have to do it fast. For the first few months, my sales associates would come to me and say, “You spent so much time talking to that one customer; I serviced three while you were chatting.” They told me to either speed up or take a step back and let them lead— which is what I’ve done. We recruited a lot of our associates from customer-facing industries like food service so that they would come in with that expertise.
Has that freed you up to focus on growth?
We opened our second location in February, and then a third in May, and we have two more in development. When the pandemic hit, we did slow down a bit. But by June or July—because of our telehealth capabilities—we saw business picking up, and we felt confident in our product, the brand, and the economy. Plus, the corporate office handles the critical responsibilities of actually producing customers’ prescriptions and managing a centralized call center. That helps give us the space to keep moving forward.
learning curve with this transition?
Having spent my career in
Have you learned to embrace social media in this new career chapter? We do a lot of social media! We even recruited a manager to focus on all our social media marketing. I still have faith in direct mail—but social media helps us reach customers, too.
Ali at his My Eyelab store in Irving, Texas.
TURNAROUND DAD
After covering his son’s shift at a failing Pie Five Pizza, Steve Roberts decided to buy the place and fix it up—even though he had no business experience. It worked.
Steve Roberts didn’t usually cover his son’s shift at the local Pie Five Pizza, but the situation was dire. His son, Joel, had a medical emergency, and the shop was so understaffed that nobody else was available.
But when Roberts arrived at the pizza shop in Ankeny, Iowa, he was appalled by what he saw. The place was dirty and in disarray. It lacked enough food product, and the machinery was broken. Who would want to work there, let alone eat there?
“Oh, man, what a mess,” Roberts said to his son. “Give me your boss’s phone number right now.”
When Roberts called the franchise owner to complain, the owner surprised him with an offer: Would Roberts want to buy the franchise?
Roberts had no business experience; he’d spent two decades as a railroad foreman. But he thought he could turn the place around. So in 2018, he signed the ownership papers and became a very unexpected Pie Five Pizza owner.
One year later, he earned the Rookie of the Year and Turnaround Store of the Year awards at Pie Five Pizza’s corporate summit. His success has only grown from there.
How did he do it? He used his lack of business experience as an asset—because it meant he was willing to try anything to succeed.
BEFORE ROBERTS bought the Pie Five location, he wanted to identify all the store’s problems. Research wasn’t difficult to do.
“I was talking to employees like, ‘What do you guys see? What is the good and the bad about this place?’ ” Roberts says. “Of course, they’re telling me ’cause they know I’m Joel’s dad, and they had no idea I was buying it.”
Roberts divided the problems he learned about into two categories: There were internal problems and external problems.
The biggest internal problems were the restaurant’s culture and employees The former owner said that the staff was terrible and rec-
ommended that Roberts fire everyone. Roberts, however, learned a more complex story. The old owner was based in Illinois and rarely at the store, and that absence created a leadership vacuum.
The place wasn’t just understaffed—it was also unable to motivate employees to care about the company. Nobody felt accountable to anyone. Some employees gave away products for free, consumed the company’s food throughout the day, and even stole from the pizzeria.
Then there were the external problems. The store’s reputation was awful, which Roberts knew well—he’d ordered from there prior to owning it. An online web search confirmed the place’s bad standing: Reviewers rated it 2.3 stars on Google, with complaints ranging from bad service to a dirty storefront.
To solve all these problems, Roberts and his son knew they’d have to do the opposite of what the old owner did. Instead of being absentee bosses, they’d need to employ a hands-on solution.
To earn his employees’ loyalty and get them invested in their work, Roberts showed them what they’d never seen before: He gave them stark transparency about the business.
“I showed them the numbers. I showed them that this box of cheese costs $200, and when they continue to make products the way they’re doing it, it’s going to cost me an extra $30,000 a year,” he says.
To motivate them further,
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FRANCHISE Comebacks
prizes as a reward for hard work. At the pizza shop, he gave gift cards to employees if they finished their training and familiarized themselves with Pie Five Pizza’s resources.
To fix the franchise’s reputation in the community, Roberts employed a version of the same strategy: Everything rested upon transparency, personal engagement, and generosity.
Roberts is a third-generation Ankeny resident with deep ties in the community. He is even a former local Little League board member. After announcing that he’d taken over the Pie Five Pizza on social media, he started connecting with local groups—and because he didn’t have money to give community members sponsorships, he instead
other community groups.
He also started making amends for all the bad experiences people had. He offered discounts to customers so they would give Pie Five another chance, and even started telling them how much money he made at the restaurant.
“All these other restaurants are saying to me, ‘Hey, man, you’re pretty ballsy telling people how much you make in a day,’ ” Roberts says. “These people are what makes us, so why shouldn’t they know what we’re making?”
Roberts also leaned on the Pie Five Pizza corporate team, which provided him with guidance and support throughout the transition.
“Having that franchise and all that legwork done for you already—all you have to do is call somebody
They’ve let me go out of the box more than they probably should have.”
When the store implemented these changes, Roberts says, the positive results were immediate. With Roberts running the restaurant and his son as manager, the restaurant doubled its weekly revenue— from $5,000 to $10,000. It ended 2019 full of awards from Pie Five Pizza…but Roberts’ hardest challenge was still yet to come.
JUST AS ROBERTS was celebrating his early success, the pandemic took hold and ravaged the restaurant industry. Roberts’ Pie Five Pizza was no exception; sales dropped, and he barely had the capital to stay afloat.
At one point, Roberts realized that if he didn’t raise
$8,000 in one weekend, he might have to close the store. So he did the only thing he could think of. He took to social media and pleaded for help from the local community he’d spent the past two years working to support.
The community responded in kind. The store earned $28,000 in three days, which enabled it to survive. A local blogger compared the response to the movie It’s a Wonderful Life
“People were walking up to me and handing me money, not even eating at the restaurant because our line was so long,” Roberts says. “It just makes you cry.” It’s hard to imagine the community rallying behind their Pie Five Pizza just a few years earlier, when the store was barely bringing in customers. But the response felt like validation for Roberts, whose guiding principle has always been simple: This business had to prioritize family and togetherness.
After all, he got into the pizza business because he wanted to be there for his son. Then it became a family business.
“You really learn what family is and what family needs when it comes to owning something and running something and being successful. You all have to be in it together, or else it won’t be successful,” Roberts says. “I’m blessed with my family, and I’m blessed to have such a huge following and support.”
Chloe Arrojado is Entrepreneur’s editorial assistant.
1,333 BUSINESSES FOR SALE
It’s our annual fall buyer’s guide of franchises. Is one right for you?
Compiled by TRACY STAPP HEROLD
They say money can’t buy happiness. But maybe it can buy opportunity. For a fee, a franchise or other business opportunity can offer you the chance to start your own business with the tools, branding, guidance, and support of an established company. And no matter what your budget or what type of business you’re interested in starting—from business services to burgers to bathroom remodeling—you’ll find plenty of options to consider here in our most comprehensive annual listing of more than 1,333 franchise and non-franchise opportunities.
This list is not intended as a recommendation of any particular company. You should always do your own careful research before investing in any opportunity. Consult with a lawyer and an accountant, read the company’s legal documents, and talk to as many existing and former franchisees, licensees, or dealers as you can to help you decide if the business is right for you. The information listed on the following pages was provided by the companies and has not necessarily been verified for accuracy. We present this listing as a service to our readers. For more information on buying a franchise or non-franchise business opportunity, visit entrepreneur.com/franchises.
Automotive
APPEARANCE SERVICES
CAP Solutions ● ●
Auto detailing department management and commercial cleaning
BEGAN: 2008, Franchising: 2015
UNITS: US: 3, CAN: 0, INTL: 0, CO: 1
COST: $39.9K–$72.2K, Rty: 9.5-7%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $10K–$100K net worth w/$5K–$50K liquid
Colors On Parade ● ●
Auto paint and dent repair
BEGAN: 1989, Franchising: 1991
UNITS: US: 216, CAN: 0, INTL: 0, CO: 7
COST: $16.1K–$84K, Rty: 20-30%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $10K–$500K net worth w/$10K–$200K liquid
Maaco
Auto painting and collision repair
BEGAN: 1972, Franchising: 1972
UNITS: US: 435, CAN: 20, INTL: 0, CO: 0
COST: $297.3K–$587.9K, Rty: 9%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $300K net worth w/$140K liquid
Ziebart
Auto appearance and protection services
BEGAN: 1959, Franchising: 1962
UNITS: US: 82, CAN: 111, INTL: 182, CO: 12
COST: $297.8K–$469.1K, Rty: 5%/8%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $350K net worth w/$150K liquid
CAR WASHES
DetailXPerts ● ●
Environmentally friendly mobile vehicle wash and detailing
BEGAN: 2002, Franchising: 2008
UNITS: US: 14, CAN: 0, INTL: 68, CO: 24
COST: $88.5K–$195.1K, Rty: 6%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $300K–$1M net worth w/$35K–$75K liquid
Fleet Clean USA ● Mobile commercial-fleet washing
BEGAN: 2009, Franchising: 2013
UNITS: US: 30, CAN: 0, INTL: 0, CO: 3
COST: $160.3K–$715.4K, Rty: 8.5%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $80K–$150K net worth w/$80K–$150K liquid
Spiffy
On-demand car care
BEGAN: 2014, Franchising: 2020
UNITS: US: 4, CAN: 0, INTL: 0, CO: 24
COST: $91.3K–$149.2K, Rty: 7%
FINANCING: Yes
Tommy’s Express Car washes
BEGAN: 1969, Franchising: 2016
UNITS: US: 69, CAN: 0, INTL: 0, CO: 10
COST: $4.2M–$5.97M, Rty: 4%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $2M net worth w/$1M liquid
● Home-based/mobile ● Kiosk/express option
● Franchise can be started for less than $50K
BEGAN: Year business began
Number of operating franchise units in other foreign countries
Number of operating company-owned units
COSTS/FEES
COST: Startup costs as reported in the FDD, including franchise fee
RTY: Royalty fee
FINANCING: In-house or third-party financing available?
QUALIF: Net worth and cash liquidity requirements
Ziebart
OIL-CHANGE SERVICES
Dipstx Mobile Oil Change ● Mobile automotive services
CMIT Solutions ● IT and business services for SMBs
BEGAN: 1994, Franchising: 1998
UNITS: US: 238, CAN: 1, INTL: 0, CO: 0
COST: $94.5K–$127.4K, Rty: 6%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $350K net worth w/$150K liquid
Computer Troubleshooters
● ●
Technology consulting and services for small businesses
BEGAN: 1997, Franchising: 1997
UNITS: US: 162, CAN: 5, INTL: 74, CO: 0
COST: $12.2K–$29.4K, Rty: 6.5%
FINANCING: No
QUALIF: $60K–$150K liquid
TeamLogic IT
IT managed services for businesses
BEGAN: 2004, Franchising: 2005
UNITS: US: 219, CAN: 1, INTL: 1, CO: 0
COST: $106.4K–$146.3K, Rty: 7%
FINANCING: Yes
QUALIF: $300K net worth w/$60K liquid
NON-FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITIES
ADVERTISING/
MARKETING SERVICES
Blastis ● Text marketing programs
NO. OF LICENSEES: 45
COST: $3.99K, Financing: Yes
Digital Marketing Training Group ● Digital marketing services
NO. OF LICENSEES: 300
COST: $25K/$65K, Financing: No
FireDrum Email Marketing ● Email marketing
NO. OF DEALERS: 1
COST: $3.5K, Financing: Yes
Live Your List Publications ● City apps
NO. OF LICENSEES: 3
COST: $7.5K-$15K, Financing: Yes
99 Dollar Social ● Social media management
NO. OF DEALERS: 500+
COST: $99/mo.+, Financing: No
Perks Nearby ● Daily-deal websites
NO. OF LICENSEES: 150
COST: $995, Financing: Yes
Social Xpand ●
Social media management
NO. OF DEALERS: --
COST: $299, Financing: No
Tabletop Billboards ● In-restaurant advertising
NO. OF DEALERS: 2
COST: $129, Financing: Yes
Today’s Senior Magazine ● Magazine for seniors
NO. OF DEALERS: 3
COST: $5.3K, Financing: Yes
Key
● Home-based/mobile / ● Kiosk/express option
DEALERSHIPS/ DISTRIBUTORSHIPS
Individuals or businesses are granted the right to buy wholesale and sell retail the products of Business XYZ, but are not entitled to use XYZ’s trade name. An authorized Apple Computer dealer, for example, may have an Apple sign in her window, but she cannot call her business Apple Computer. While the terms distributors and dealers are often used interchangeably, there is a difference between the two: A distributor may sell to a number of dealers, while a dealer usually sells to a retailer or consumer.
LICENSING OPPORTUNITIES
Trademark/product licensees receive access to the seller’s trade name as well as specific methods, equipment, technology, or products. If Business ABC has a special method for detailing cars, it will teach you its method and provide you with the necessary equipment and supplies to set up your own business. You may or may not call your business ABC, but you become an independent licensee.
ADD-ON BUSINESSES
These are business opportunities that can be added on to an existing business. So if you own an auto repair shop, you can add on a cardetailing side business.
NETWORK MARKETING/ DIRECT-SALES BUSINESSES Individuals sell products through their networks of friends, neighbors, coworkers, and so on. In some instances they may gain additional commissions by recruiting other agents.
VENDING MACHINES The seller provides the machines and the locations to place them, and the buyer restocks or services the machines.
FRANCHISE The List Non-Franchise Opportunities
TravelHost ● Travel magazines
NO. OF LICENSEES: 45
COST: $50K, Financing: Yes
Veza Digital ● Digital marketing agencies
NO. OF LICENSEES: 15
COST: $5K, Financing: No
APPAREL
&
ACCESSORIES
Cariloha
Bamboo apparel, accessories, bedding, and home decor
NO. OF DEALERS: 45
COST: $150K, Financing: No
Del Sol
Color-changing apparel and accessories NO. OF DEALERS: 45
COST: $150K, Financing: No
Red Wing Shoe Company Footwear
NO. OF DEALERS: 250 COST: $180K, Financing: No
BUSINESS SERVICES
Catalyft Success System Business coaching
NO. OF LICENSEES: 12 COST: $35K+, Financing: No
Elevated AI ●
Real-time tech support
NO. OF LICENSEES: 0
COST: $10K-$150K, Financing: No
Growth Concepts ● Software and services for building business equity
NO. OF DEALERS: 10
COST: $3K, Financing: Yes
Kaeser & Blair ● Promotional products
NO. OF DEALERS: 1,006
COST: $25-$299, Financing: No
Shred-Tech ● Mobile document destruction
NO. OF LICENSEES: 600
COST: $200K, Financing: Yes
True North Business Development (TNBD) ● Email list-building service
College Nannies, Sitters and Tutors ....................................... 66 Color Glo ......................................... 90 Color Me Mine ................................ 100
Colortech Eco Paints ...................... 108
Color World House Painting .............. 85 Combo Kitchen ................................. 76
D DaddyO Diner ................................. 108
Little Gym, The ................................ 68 Little Kickers ................................... 68 Little Kitchen Academy ..................... 67
Medical School ......................... 67
Princess Spa ........................... 95
Mint Condition ................................. 88
Mr. Appliance .................................. 89
Mr. Electric ...................................... 88
Mr. Handyman ................................. 89
Mr. Paint and Puff ........................... 100
Mr. Potato Spread ............................ 81
Mr. Rooter ....................................... 90
Mr. Sandless ................................... 85 Multivista ....................................... 104 Music Go Round ............................. 102
Mutts Canine Cantina .......................
For Senior America .............. 97 Orangetheory Fitness ...................... 94
Wag N’ Wash Natural Pet Food & Grooming ....................... 99 Wake N Vape .................................. 102 Walk-On’s Sports Bistreaux .............. 71 Waters Edge Wineries ....................... 82 WaveMax Laundry .......................... 102
Waxing The City ............................... 98 Waxxpot ..........................................
Which Wich Superior Sandwiches ....................................
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TELL YOUR STORY THE RIGHT WAY
It isn’t about sharing all your great accomplishments. It’s about being relatable with your failures. by
JASON FEIFER
hen you tell your story, you may be leaving out the best part. I see this happen all the time. Entrepreneurs share their story online or onstage, or tell it to customers, investors, or people like me—and they wonder why it isn’t resonating. The result isn’t just a bruised ego; it is a financial liability! People connect with a story a lot more than they do with a brand or a product. If you can’t tell your story right, you’ll have a harder time gaining business, attention, fans, and exposure.
WHow do you do it right, and what’s the part everyone misses? It’s time to discuss the greatest story ever told: It’s called the hero’s journey. Every great movie you’ve watched, and every great novel you’ve read, and probably every great tale you’ve ever heard all follow the same simple three-part structure:
1 Our hero sets out to do something.
2 Our hero experiences a setback.
3 Our hero overcomes.
That’s it. Simple, elegant, compelling. But when entrepreneurs tell their story, I often hear this instead:
1 I set out to do something.
3 I succeeded.
They skip the second part! They skip the setback! I understand why: The second part contains all the hard-
ship and embarrassment. It’s where mistakes were made, money was lost, and ideas were trashed. It’s the heart of vulnerability.
But it’s also the part everyone can relate to. In fact, it may be the only part people can relate to. Other people may not have the same goals as you (part 1), and they may not have the same results as you (part 3). But part 2 contains the humanity. Struggle, shame, bracing against the impossible—these are universal experiences. I don’t care if you’re running an ice cream stand or a billiondollar empire; your emotional experience will be the same. That’s why part 2 matters. It’s where your audience connects with you.
Consider this: Nobody likes a success story. They’re boring and uninstructive. I mean, do you want to hear some billionaire brag about how everything they touched turned to gold? No!
People like problem-solving stories. You will listen to that billionaire only because you want to hear something you can use. You’re looking for yourself in their story—and we are all looking for ourselves in all the stories. It’s why we tear up at the end of movies. We don’t just care about the characters; we’re seeing ourselves in the characters.
Here’s a real-world version of that. Last year, I interviewed Dwayne “the Rock” Johnson. His goals were not my goals, and, well, he’s at least a teeny bit more famous and successful than I am. If he spoke only about those things, we’d have had a dry and unmemorable interview. But instead, he shared lessons and setbacks from his journey. My greatest memory from that interview—and the one I’ve repeated dozens of times since—was when he described a time, just as he became famous, when he was rude to a fan who’d asked
for an autograph. At the time, he instantly felt regret. “I had an opportunity to make that person feel so good,” he told me, “and instead they walked away apologetic and feeling awful, when the reality is, I’m a lucky son of a bitch that somebody would care enough to come up and ask for my autograph.”
Haven’t we all done something like that? Haven’t we been in some position of authority or power and not been as generous or graceful as we’d aspire to be? When Johnson told that story, I felt it. He was telling a story about himself, but he’d also told a story about me. And it’s a story I then wanted to tell everyone.
This is the power of part 2 of the hero’s journey. Do not hide it. Instead, own it. Embrace it. Share it. It is the reason why people will love you—not because you’ve done what they didn’t but because, at one time, at least, you were just like them.