Emily Musgrave Interviewed by Michelle ForrestBeckett
Emily Musgrave is an artist and curator born in York in
1993. After completing her BA in Fine Art at the University of Lincoln in 2014, Emily began to develop her curatorial practice. As an artist, Emily has been featured in Volume 4 of Art Reveal magazine. As curator, Emily’s exhibitions include Research & Practice, Galley St Martins, Lincoln, 2015; Title at the Collection, The Collection, Lincoln 2015. My curtorial interests lie within the dismantling of the artist’s practice. I ask the questions, how does an artist think? What can we learn if we ask them to alter their practice? My curatorial projects are often set within a hertiage site or with the idea of heritage in mind. The juxtapostion of heritage sites and contempoary art is one that I have a strong interest in, mostly because of the influence of growing up in a city such as York.
underthearthouse@gmail.com
MFB: Why this object? EM: It was the first thing I thought of when I was thinking about this project. It was the thing that just kept popping into my mind, ‘cause I told you guys when you were thinking about this project to read the rationale and literally the first thing that pops into your head should be the object. And with me it was the same thing with this, for some reason I kept thinking about it and I think it was just because that partly it was one of my grandparent’s belongings but also because of the aesthetic of it. I just really like it and you can see I’ve used it in all the promotional material, stuff like that. It’s not a particularly unique object in that it’s rare, it doesn’t even have a mark on the bottom. It could be found in a charity shop, I don’t think it’d sell for much - probably less than twenty quid. But it’s still something that is treasured in my mum’s house. My mum is an only child and had to go through these objects, these belongings, this life’s worth of stuff - two lives worth of stuff, obviously it’s just combined because it’s in the same house. And she had to consciously select things. She’s still got stuff that... it depends on subjectivity but people probably would have been thrown away. I mean, this could have definitely been thrown away ‘cause like I say it’s not unique and I don’t have any particular memories of it. I don’t know if my mum does, but it just sat on a shelf in the entrance hall of my grandparent’s house with loads of other glass. I can’t remember it specifically but I was just conscious of it being there. MFB: That surprises me because I expected to hear there was some strong association to your childhood that it’s the reason you selected it. EM: No, it was just there amongst all this other glass which is equally probably not as unique and I don’t know, I think my Nana
probably had really strange taste. I think this is actually one of my Nana's things rather than my Grandad's. Because while he was a painter and he was a creative person who concentrated on aesthetic, I don't remember having that many ornaments or ornamental things around the house. He had his own little studio where everything was just crammed in because he had so many paintings. It was maybe 8ft by 4ft it was tiny, it was a little box room. So I think this was probably my Nana's more than his but I just know that it had a presence amongst all these other things and I'm only fully aware of it since around 2011 when my mum had to go through all their things and she chose to put it in the bathroom and so I saw it every day while I was living at home and not at University. MFB: I could understand why she would put it in the bathroom maybe because it's got that transparency and it catches the light and I guess because of the colour. EM: It fits really well. In my mum's house I cannot think of a wall in the entire house - this is the kitchen, the bathroom, the hallway, the landing. Every wall has a picture or something aesthetic on the wall, every single one. So there's a lot of things like this (the vase) about. I don't think it's something that she would have bought if she bought it in a charity shop. If I saw it in a charity shop I would think it's a very old-person vase, probably. MFB: So you’ve become custodian of the object and you’ve expressed you probably wouldn’t have bought it yourself or your mum wouldn’t have. But you’re know holding onto and appreciating because it belonged to your grandparents? EM: Yeah. It has its own history, even if that history isn’t anything important. My Nana is still living, she’s 91. My Grandad died last
year just before his 94th birthday. I think they would be confused as to why we kept it, it was just an ornament, and I don’t think it was anything special. But to my mum who went through all these things, I think she kept these things out of sentimentality because we’ve got a lot of other stuff that other people might not have kept. It’s really strange what you put value in because we do have a lot of ornaments now but I think it’s just because it’s familiar, therefore it’s comforting. All my life they lived in that house, I don’t know if they because they moved around - they moved from London to York when my mum was about 7 or 8 and my mum was born in London... so I don’t know when this was purchased or when it first existed in that context. I don’t know if my mum would remember if it’s something that they bought in Bridlington (where they lived in later life). MFB: I’m kind of chewing over ‘Why this object?’ If it’s not any kind of particular association into a past or your Nana who you think would have chosen it, is it something evocative in the object that is drawing you to it? EM: I think it’s just a thing of comfort again. I look at this (the vase) and I think of my Nana and Grandad. Every time I see it because it was one of their possessions and it’s been given a new context, it’s in a different house but it still has this history of belonging to them. I think it’s just that association of it being there’s and it being there’s and the process that my mum had to go through. It still exists. I probably would have completely forgotten about it and might have not known it even existed before it came to our house actually.
MFB: It's making me think of an object in my Nana's old house that was glass lots of different colours and I don't know if it was the colour that would have drawn me to that as a child and the fact that she lived in a very small bungalow which had small rooms and low ceilings. So whether it was the light catching the glass, what kind of house did your grandparents live in? EM: They lived in a semi-detached house, it was lovely. A bit dated but probably not to them. MFB: Was it dark? EM: Parts of it was even though there was plenty of windows and a large garden at the back. Or it was just a long garden where my Nana spent a lot of her time. The vase was in front of a window so it would have caught the light. I don't know why, but it reminds me of sweets and stuff. And the colour, turquoise is my mum's favourite colour. If you know her it's definitely a colour you associate with her because she loves that colour. The vase reminds me of my grandparents but then it reminds me a bit of my mum as well just because of that personal connection. It's sort of a history passing down. It's such a humble object. MFB: But it’s still evocative for different reasons. EM: I don’t know if it is evocative, I don’t particularly feel anything when I look at it. It just reminds me of my Nana and Grandad and of this process that we all inevitably will probably have to go through where we are laying out someone’s trajectory through objects and material things and for some reason my mum kept this vase. I don’t know if she actually just kept it because she liked it or if it was a thing where she was sorting through all these things and
she just couldn't bear to chuck it away. It's not something we've talked about. MFB: It could be that it’s just the colour association. EM: Yeah. We've got a few other things, we've got loads of their glass which is lovely. I've got an appreciation for it now. Before it wouldn't have ever been something that I would have enjoyed really. But now, I could see having some lovely glass things. I appreciate the craft of it now. MFB: Do you think that glass was something that your Nana particularity was drawn to collecting? EM: I don’t know if it was just a generational thing. There were other bits and pieces, everything had its place I would say, in terms of these things. MFB: Did you ever see anything put in the vase? EM: Not that I remember, I can’t really remember it in the house. I just can’t, I know there was glass and that’s the only place I can think where it would have been - in the entrance hall with all the other glass. You come down the stairs and it’s directly opposite. I always looked at it and I remember some specific glass, some flute ones that would hold just a single flow. So I do remember bits and pieces. MFB: So it was more aesthetic than functional? EM: Oh yeah, it was definitely ornamental I think. It’s weird because it came from their house but if I didn’t have it in front of me now and my mum hadn’t put it in her house I probably wouldn’t
have ever remembered it. I don't remember it specifically in their house, I just remember there being glass. It was all quite beautiful in their own way but again something that could have been quite disposable. It's not unique enough to be worth anything in terms of monetary value. But I think again it's because it's in my mum's bathroom, that's the only reason why I really know it. And I'm just aware that it came from my Nana and Grandad's house because it only appeared there in the last five years or so. My mum has never put anything in it and you can still see the leftovers from when they had it, in terms of dirt. It's just so weird what my mum decided to keep but I think when I have to go through my mum's objects I'll end up keeping things like this. I think that's just part of that process perhaps and as you go through the years of your own life it probably starts to narrow down a bit. My mum's found a function for this. I think my mum is a curator and she doesn't realise it. We all have the ability and we all have the natural skill set to curate but she has montages of paintings and pictures in the living room. There's some of my Grandad's paintings but then there's pictures she's taken from books and framed and there's postcards. MFB: So it sounds like the choosing of the objects to keep, to be custodian of, have been selected based upon where they can fit in her existing surroundings. EM: Possibly, she has this really ugly rug in her bedroom which I know for a fact she would not choose to buy, she would get something completely different. I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s peach and has a floral pattern. But she has that in her bedroom, she kept it. The only reason I can think of why she kept it is because it belonged to my Nana and Grandad. MFB: Do you think your mum would call it ugly too?
EM: Yeah. I reckon so, I don't think she likes it particularly. It's definitely not something she'd choose, I know that for a fact. MFB: She feels the need to hold onto it all the same? EM: Yeah, I think it's possibly because her house is small she's just given it a function. If we rolled it up it wouldn't go anywhere. So I think rather than chucking it out she's just decided to put it on the floor. MFB: Was there a volume of objects and things that had to be given away? EM: I don’t actually know, I don’t think my mum has given anything away. Possibly when she was clearly out the house, inevitably things did go because she would have thought logically about it. I remember coming downstairs after we’d moved everything and there was just all this furniture piled up in the back room. It was just things like chairs which we still have and mum hasn’t reupholstered them because she doesn’t want to even though they’re that scratchy material. I think they’re probably from the 60’s. We have a sideboard as well and she won’t paint that because she’s got an attachment to it. I just don’t think she wants to change it because when you change them the history moves on. I kind of agree, I do. I think if it was me I’d be exactly the same. MFB: Maybe losing its original charm? EM: I think it becomes something else and officially becomes someone else’s possession when that person chooses to paint it and you can’t visualise it being in the original house anymore. I don’t know, grief is a funny thing. You can mourn and grieve without anyone actually passing away and I think it’s a process my mum has been through. My Grandad was very quiet and reserved. He
had been through World War II and I think that probably played a part in it, he never ever spoke about it. But when mum went through his things she’s found factual books on that topic and she found his diaries from that time. We discovered he'd been to Canada, Africa and India. All these wonderful places it was just under a horrible circumstance. My Nana actually pretended to be older than she was and went to Italy and stayed in Gracie Fields house who was a singer during that era, quite a famous one who would boost morale. I don't know how she ended up staying at Gracie Field's house. Nana actually gave me a pendant from Italy which I'm presuming must have been from when she there during World War II, I don't actually know what she did there. My mum might know. Somehow my Nana managed to fake her age and go join the war effort which is bizarre. My Grandad was a navigator in Halifax planes so I think there was a lot of trauma from being in planes that were aiding destruction. He never talked about it so it was really weird when we found these books. It was quite revealing. I don’t know how much of a part it plays in his artistic process and the possessions he kept because like I say, I think all these ornamental objects were much more my Nana’s than his. I can only remember one thing of his which was a birdcage with a wind up bird that sang and it was so old. I think we’ll have it somewhere. MFB: It sounds really magical. EM: Yeah I remember him playing it for me once and of course being about 7 years old I touched the bird and my Grandad was never an angry person but I definitely knew of his dissatisfaction with me doing that. I think he tutted at me. I don’t think I ever heard him raise his voice. I don’t really remember him saying much. It’s strange thinking about it but he was such a lovely bloke. He was in his 80’s but will still do these little skips to make us laugh. MFB: You’ve talked about lots of really loaded artefacts and objects, books and journals. Really loaded pieces and then the magical wind up bird that probably has some real value.
MFB: But you've brought something in that's... EM: It has absolutely no association for me in terms of that. There's no conversation about this vase which was so precious to them, I mean it probably wasn't. I can imagine them possibly going 'Why would you keep that?' out of everything and yet here it is. MFB: Does that make you think about if a family member is in the same situation as you when you're elderly? What might they keep of yours? EM: I keep so much random stuff. I have piles of train tickets, which I do go through occasionally and thin out. MFB: What makes you want to hold onto those? EM: I think it's just because when usually when I go see my partner or when we go do something I save them. The most recent ones are from when we went to Scarborough for a day trip which was lovely because I used to go there all the time when I was younger. I'll look at the tickets and see a trip to London and think about the dates but I can't always remember what I did there. It will have been going to see my boyfriend or a day trip into London as he lived down there at the time. It's weird keeping them. I keep loads of receipts and stuff to the point where Rishi always gives me them. Half the time I don't keep them, it depends where it is. I've got one from my birthday still from this year. MFB: Do you feel because you’ve been doing that for a while you know have to hold onto every receipt and ticket?you know have to hold onto every receipt and ticket? EM: No, it depends on the day. I do feel a bit reluctant to put them
in the bin even when I just get into Lincoln, I don't know why. I just think I kind of want to hold onto it for a bit, I really don't know why though. It's never a special journey and I'm not in Lincoln usually for a special reason. MFB: It sounds like you're tracking events. EM: A little bit, I don't know. I think it's just nice to hold on to them. MFB: They kind of sound like they jog the memory to kind of challenge 'When was that? Why did I go there, who was I with?' EM: I’ve got loads of little sentimental things but I think it's something to do with materialism in that when I was growing up we didn't have a lot of money. So I don't know if I hold onto these things for that reason, something to do with that. I think it probably plays a role in all this too. MFB: I think that's healthy to value objects not just replace them. EM: Yeah I think it’s almost a sickness, it’s an illness when people dispose of functional things. I think it was Justin Bieber who modelled for Calvin Klein not that long ago who said he gets given so many free boxers that when he’s worn one he just throws it away. He won’t even stick it in the washer which is insane. Obviously he’s got a lot of money and if I was in the same position it would probably be the same thing. I don’t know if I’d hold onto underwear if I just kept been given so many that I could just wear one and then chuck it. It’s a strange thing to think about because I can criticise him but at the same time if I was in the same position I’d probably do exactly the same. It’s like when you look at someone who obviously has money and they’ve got a £20,000 watch on. That’s insane, I cannot imagine owning something or wearing something that
costs that much. But, if I was a millionaire I probably would indulge in that, because you've got the money so why not? But at the same time because I haven't ever had that much money I was thinking about it and if I won the lottery I think I'd just be ill. I wouldn't know what to do with that money and I think I'd be so bored. I hate the idea of not having a career to aspire to anymore and therefore a function and something to actually do. You just have money. I don't know because I don't think I'll even look at the tickets again. I have them all and then I forget where I put them. Some of them I definitely do remember the occasion that went with them. Others, not necessarily. MFB: How do you select what to get rid of? EM: I have regrets about some things that I’ve gotten rid of. Usually clothes. I regret getting rid of something of them because I wish I had them still to wear but a lot of it is stuff that I don’t wear and I give it to a charity shop. But then with these sentimental objects I think it’s kind of the same thing really. Once it’s gone I probably won’t ever think about it again because I don’t have that trigger. MFB: I think being in the creative industry where you need time and money and work through ideas, I guess if you had unlimited cash from winning the lottery it would allow you to have free reign. EM: But then I think I’d feel like it’d be false. We all struggle so hard to get to that point, we’re all skint. I don’t know any artists that are rich beforehand or during (their progress). You might have the resources to create art but you don’t go through that struggle. It doesn’t seem as authentic because you have the money and resources to put your own show on rather than someone approaching you which I think is far more important. I think it’s false.
MFB: So you think the struggle is actually important to produce authentic work? EM: I think so. I think it's just something that we all have to go through anyway, even out of the art context. We all have to struggle to get to the place we want to be in the first place. We have to use all our resources and then we have to work our way up. You can apply that to so many different professions. You're incredibly lucky to have that opportunity with money of course, I don't want to criticise it's just I think it's just slightly false to just throw yourself into it at the top rather than start at the bottom and work your way up. If I did have money I would be creating art full time because that sounds so wonderful, it sounds so lovely. And obviously I'd be curating too. But I'd be doing my collages but I'd be making them into stained glass windows. It's so expensive so I can't do it now. MFB: That’s interesting to bring it back to the object. The collage in your practice then becoming a stained glass window. EM: I know and I think this vase has something to do with it, I’m not going to lie. Because we had stained glass windows in the bathroom with the glass and I just appreciated it so much. And because I’m from York everywhere you go there’s a church with a stained glass window, so that’s definitely been a subconscious influence as well. I think you just have to appreciate the skill of it, even though the subjects are often religious so while it might not be something everyone can personally connect to you can appreciate the skill and the time and the effort. They are beautiful and they have a purpose, it’s storytelling but there’s something quite magical about it. When I look at the glass I just think it’s so pretty which I know is quite shallow but I do work in a way which is focussed on aesthetic
and is mostly ornamental. There's that kind of appreciation for things like that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, a lot of the art I like, I like because it's aesthetically pleasing to me. It's not necessarily because of the subject or the theory or the research that goes into it. I love pre-Raphaelite paintings and it's purely because of the way they look. I think they're gorgeous, they're just stunning. And they’re always based on story usually, a narrative like the Lady of Shallot and poetry, sometimes religion. And to be honest they’re horribly misogynistic, these women that need to be saved. You can just roll your eyes and yet it goes against everything I believe as a feminist but they’re just stunning. I think they are anyway, its subjective. I do place a lot of value in the appearance of art and objects. It’s strange because I do not apply that to my personal life. I could not give a shit what people wear or what they look like. I don’t care, I never have. But when it comes to these things and art I think it’s something I value above anything else. I’ll go to the V&A and just look at the sculptures near the courtyard and just look at all these gorgeous sculptures and that Greek style. MFB: How does that make you feel? EM: Fulfilled. Because it’s just so lovely. I know that these are quite shallow words, but they just make me feel happy. I place a lot of value in that, it’s really peculiar.
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