11 minute read
HOW TO ARGUE WITH VEGANS: A new book by Benny Malone
About Benny Malone
Benny Malone is a vegan animal rights author from Ellesmere Port U.K. He plays the drums and enjoys walks in the country and learning about science and nature. His first book is ‘How to Argue With Vegans’ an analysis of anti-vegan arguments.
BEFORE WE START – GISH GALLOPING. EXPLAIN PLEASE?
Gish Galloping is named after anti-evolutionist Duane Gish who was notorious for using this technique in discussions and so has become immortalised. It involves using a scattergun approach to asking a series of questions in the hope that your opponent won’t be able to address them all due to being overwhelmed by the number and range of questions. It would be like me asking you 20 questions and demanding an immediate answer to all of them. If you can’t answer them then I claim victory even though the questions may or may not have valid and reasonable answers. It’s similar to the ‘on the spot fallacy’. It’s a dirty tactic that people should be aware of. My book is partly about making people aware of a lot of these tactics and how to deal with them. Most of the concepts from the section on discussions can apply to any sort of discussion on lots of topics, like evolution in this case. It just happens that the topic is veganism this time so it should be a good exercise for critical thinkers and philosophy students to apply these lessons to a topic like animal rights that perhaps they haven’t considered before.
THE BOOK HAS A SLIGHTLY DECEPTIVE TITLE…
It’s pure clickbait! Or maybe it’s a double meaning – argue alongside vegans! Or maybe it actually is about how to improve your arguments with vegans – the best way to do this is to actually BE vegan so…
HOW DID THE BOOK COME ABOUT?
Due to my presence on social media a lot of people have asked for a guide to the common arguments against veganism from me. I always specialised in pointing out logical fallacies and debunking anti-vegan arguments. Some people had copied my lists of fallacies but they aren’t organised in any way that is categorised or tells a story. So I wanted to get my version out there that actually categorises the arguments rather than randomly listing them. I’d written some essays in the past that attempted to categorise all the anti-vegan arguments into a sort of phylogenetic tree. This naturally leads to the idea of a flow chart of logic based answers to the Frequently Asked
Questions of veganism. I’d had the idea for a massive flow chart of the FAQs about 8 years ago and then through conversations on Facebook Lorelei Plotczyk and Sarah Woodcock both said they’d had similar ideas for how that may be possible. There could be a book almost like a ‘Choose Your Own Adventure’ one where each question brings you to an answer and if any further objections are raised it would continue branching out like that until you finally have a satisfying answer. I think a computer program that can do that for the FAQs is still the dream! You might think that I wrote the book during lockdowns for Covid-19 but I haven’t actually had any extra time and have been working full time throughout the pandemic. I suppose it did give me some impetus to actually put the arguments in book form and my friend Michael Sizer made a suggestion about writing a book that really kicked off the process.
IT’S AVAILABLE ALL OVER THE WORLD RIGHT? OR PRETTY MUCH SO. ANY PLANS TO TRANSLATE MAYBE?
It’s available on Amazon at the moment. If anyone is boycotting Amazon then they can contact me through my social media pages and I’ll see what I can do for them in exchange for a donation to a sanctuary. I’m hoping it will get translated in the future. I’m currently working with a friend on getting it recorded as an audiobook. I was never going to narrate it as I hate my voice! Stay tuned for news about the audiobook version!
AND A FAMOUS VEGAN HAS COME UP WITH THE COVER!
Yes! Richard Watts AKA Vegan Sidekick designed and illustrated the cover. I knew I wanted something bold and striking and a bit of an in-joke for vegans with the lion. I’ve been a fan of Vegan Sidekick from the start. Let me tell you about this guy! People don’t even realise he is like a modern day Hogarth and in a long line of English satirical cartoonists stretching back centuries. I didn’t even know what ‘Vegan Sidekick’ was when I saw the page on Facebook and I’d only been vegan a couple of years at the time I think. So I felt I needed a ‘sidekick’ and help with countering all the various anti-vegan arguments you get bombarded with. There didn’t seem to be many pages like
that. It’s honestly informed a lot of my approach, the satire, the logical arguments and the way a lot of the arguments get inverted or turned around. Of course it provides some comic relief and venting for vegans too. I am friends with Richard and we’ve talked about the arguments over the years so he was the first person I came to for the cover with a basic idea I has after trying to put a lion image on the cover myself to see how that would look.
AND YOU HAVE SOME FABULOUS PICTURES OF YOU AND THE COVER TOO!
That was an accident! I was doing a selfie with the book after I had just got the first print version in my hands. I held it up in front then noticed I could do the half-human/half-lion face. Then after I posted it on Facebook other people who bought the book did it too and I said I’ll make a collage of all the pictures once I have enough.
YOU’RE NOT A LION THO?
No, I’m a human with moral agency! I’ve just seen someone on Facebook saying ‘butterflies eat fish tho’ so I may have to change it.
TELL US MORE ABOUT THE BOOK AND WHAT THE REAL AIMS ARE HERE
The book is structured to take the reader through the most common anti-vegan arguments and provide answers to these. It has a definite ‘journey’ to it, from not wanting to engage on the subject at all and dismissing it through ridicule all the way through progressive stages to actually trying to engage with veganism on its own terms. Unfortunately for opponents of veganism by the time you have progressed so far through those stages you should have adopted so many vegan premises and arguments as your own and be adhering to following them (if you are serious about it) that you will be almost at the stage of following a 100% plant based diet and avoiding most animal use. To seriously argue against veganism in this framework you need to be 99% of the way there in practical terms. I discuss all the nonsense about percentages too so this is just for illustrative purposes. Veganism itself IS a position you either adopt or don’t. You either support the commodification of animals in principle or you don’t. In practical terms it can have varying outcomes of course!
ANYONE FAMOUS IN THE BOOK? OR IS THAT A SECRET?
Every single argument is one I’ve encountered in person or online in discussions. I’ve spared the names of any individuals apart from Neil DeGrasse Tyson, David Attenborough, Noam Chomsky and Brian Cox! I challenged Peter Hitchens to a debate but he just retweeted it and said ‘thank you, no.’
OK, SCORSESE IS ON THE PHONE AND WANTS TO MAKE A MOVIE BASED ON THE BOOK. WHO PLAYS BENNY?
Daniel Day Lewis comes out of retirement to win his fourth Oscar.
Apparently Scorsese has ‘yet to confirm’ that the film will be vegan – if there is to be a film at all, indeed – did you know that? It was on VGN News or something….
If the catering isn’t vegan Mr Scorcese will be getting a visit from some Goodfellas I know.
COULD THE BOOK BE DESCRIBED AS ‘STRATEGIC’ OR ‘PRAGMATIC’, OR BOTH, OR NEITHER?
*Titters* Sure, it’s both. You can strategically use the arguments in the book in a pragmatic way when the time and place are right for doing so. It’s a false dilemma set up by opponents of making a case for veganism that you can’t be friendly, pragmatic, strategic etc AND make a case for animal rights and veganism. They don’t have ownership over those words and if they are saying that veganism is inherently ‘problematic’ in some way they are wrong.
YOU WERE VERY VOCAL ON FACEBOOK A FEW YEARS AGO – AND THEN TOOK A BREAK FOR A WHILE. WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?
My father passed away and I was feeling stressed at the time. I didn’t feel like social media was good for my mental health so I took an extended break. I was getting burnt out with so many ‘there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism’ arguments which seemed so disingenuous to me. I was also admin of a few groups and found that a thankless task. So I handed over to some other trusted admins. Then when I tested the waters on coming back to Facebook I was really encouraged to see that the ‘no ethical consumption…’ argument was being addressed on pages like ‘Veganarchist Memes: Breaking Leftist Speciesism’ whereas previously around the time I left it seemed like speciesism was way down on the list of issues that should be addressed and always got a pass. I probably only stuck around Facebook because I saw that it wasn’t going to have free reign anymore and people were addressing it.
ANY INTERESTING FEEDBACK YET SINCE THE BOOK CAME OUT?
Some great reviews on Amazon. I’m actually most looking forward to the one star reviews from angry farmers, especially the ones using arguments that are thoroughly refuted in the book.
ON A SERIOUS NOTE – DO YOU THINK WE’LL SEE A VEGAN WORLD? AND WILL ALL CAGES BE EMPTY?
I believe so but I don’t know the timescale. I’m pretty sure the alternative to change will mean a completely different world to the one we live in now, if the climate crisis is not addressed on all fronts.
WHAT’S REALLY HOLDING US BACK RIGHT NOW FROM REALLY GATHERING PACE VEGAN WISE? APART FROM THE GISH GALLOPERS OBVIOUSLY.
There are lots of elements. I think in practical terms the vegan alternatives are really gathering pace and veganism isn’t seen as a ‘scare word’ even by companies that were previously opposed to it. There are dangers and risks in this even, with greenwashing and capitalism. I’m dubious of calls for unity sometimes as they are often just fronts for stifling opposing
views which may be valid. But I think the thing vegans should be focussed and united on is the fact that 1) we are making a case for being vegan (not other positions) 2) we should be united in understanding veganism as a position against the commodity status of animals and their subsequent exploitation and slaughter that results from this. 3) We should be familiar with the arguments and the facts and not overreach or make outlandish or unscientific claims. The scientific consensus is on our side for ecological efficiency, animal sentience, the healthfulness of 100% plant-based diets. Take your B-12 tablets! In practical terms it’s about increasing vegan numbers but also about political change and stopping subsidies to these industries and getting them put into fruit and veg rather than meat and dairy. I think the public should be outraged at these industries instead of shooting the messenger. I believe an attitude change to veganism could happen quite quickly once the public debate is easily won. Getting people to engage is the hard part at the moment. Changing attitudes to animal use and animals themselves is vital. The push back against veganism is massive. But the determination, knowledge and sheer capability of some of the activists out there is truly inspiring. We have the best arguments!
HOW CAN PEOPLE GET HOLD OF THE BOOK?
Just on Amazon at the moment, check your storefront. Hoping for an audiobook version soon. If anyone wants to read it but is in any difficulty they should contact me.
ANY PLANS FOR A SEQUEL?
I’ve got a few books in mind. One will be a shorter version of the arguments around veganism perhaps with more Socratic questions and I’ll tailor this for the use of activists. Another might be a volume of Collected Essays once I have written a few more. These are on various topics surrounding animal use and would stretch back to ‘Occam’s Razor and Veganism’. Thirdly I would like to do a more general philosophy one on ‘Philosophical Objects’ – these are things like ‘Occam’s Razor’ and ‘Neurath’s Boat’ that appear throughout the history of philosophy.
BUY THE BOOK:
https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-to-argue-with-vegans/richard-watts/benny-malone/9798744049300
