Tine painted by Agnes Rykken on a red background with floral and animal forms in blues, reds, and greens. The box is turned from one piece and the cover fits into two side projections with horse-head finials that act as springs. Vesterheim 1968.040.001—Museum purchase.
“Welcome, I Am Agnes Rykken” Conversations with Vesterheim’s First Gold Medalist in Rosemaling by Dean Madden Vol. 6, No. 2 2008
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In August, 1979, Dean Madden traveled from his home in Decatur, Illinois, to Seattle, Washington, to interview Agnes Rykken, Vesterheim’s first Gold Medalist in rosemaling (19011991). What follows is an edited transcript from that historically significant interview, important as much for Dean Madden’s keen observations as it is for the insight it gives into Rykken’s artistry.
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t was a mild, overcast day when our Eastern Airline Flight 85, a big Lockheed L-1011, wide-bodied monster, sat down on the Seattle Airport runway at 8:24 a.m.— only 35 minutes out of Portland. Jack Rykken, Agnes’s son, had called me in Decatur, Illinois, the Friday before, to tell me he would meet the plane. As I approached the carousel distributing our bags off the plane, Jack was easy to spot. We quickly loaded my three bags filled with tape recorders and photographic equipment into his new Volvo and headed north through Seattle to its northern suburb—the Lake City District. On the way, Jack had explained that his mother, now 78, was reluctant to drive through heavy traffic in the city, but was generally enjoying excellent health and had, in fact, just returned from a six-day visit to Alaska, where she had traveled to attend a wedding of one of her grandsons. It was sprinkling rain when we arrived at the Rykken home at Northeast 105th Street, an impressive, grey building, with a rather modern look on the outside. At the door stood a lovely, little white-haired lady, about five-foot-two, with a friendly smile and an extended hand. “Welcome,” she said, “I am Agnes Rykken.” We shook hands in the kitchen, and she immediately dispelled any doubts of her Norwegian heritage when she inquired if I would like a cup of coffee. Agnes established her national reputation as a master rosemaler by winning Blue Ribbons at the first and second National Rosemaling Exhibitions, sponsored by Vesterheim. Here was a lady who had never been to Decorah, had never seen Vesterheim, nor attended one of its rosemaling classes, either in America or Norway, yet who, in the first two years of the national competition, became the first Medal of Honor Rosemaling laureate in Vesterheim history. I opened the conversation with a short explanation of what we were up to, and I read a quote from Nils Ellingsgard’s book, Rosemaling i Hallingdal, which I thought explained pointedly why I was writing. Unfortunately a great deal of traditional material has been irrevocably lost in the last 100 years, much more could have been saved for posterity if this book had been written a generation or two earlier . . . many painters have now been forgotten. Only the more prominent and not by any means all of them have survived down to the present in local tradition and legend.1 Dean Madden: So now you have several reasons for my interviewing people who are Gold Medal laureates, as designated by Vesterheim Norwegian-American Museum. Since you, Agnes, were the first Gold Medal winner, we thought we would start with you. Can you recall when you first got interested in rosemaling, and what led up to it? 30
Agnes Rykken. Photo courtesy of Dean Madden.
Agnes Rykken: In Bellingham, Washington, where my husband practiced medicine, we had a very large home, twice as big as this one. And in the basement, we had a ballroom and attached to it was quite a nice-sized kitchen. My husband was in the Navy, and when he “came back” from the Navy, he was restless and wanted to do something. All of his life he has been sort of a builder—he didn’t build himself, but he planned. He loved to plan things. So, he decided to make our little kitchen into a bar. I thought it would be very nice if the doors in this bar could be rosemaled. We looked all over Bellingham and couldn’t find anybody who could do rosemaling. Dean: Let me interrupt here—how had you found out what rosemaling was? Agnes: Oh, when I was ten years old, my aunt brought me a little chest from Norway. I have always been interested in art and I can’t remember where I first saw it, but I was acquainted with rosemaling. Dean: Were your mother and father born in Norway? Agnes: No, and they had never been in Norway. My grandparents came to America when they were quite young. My husband and I visited my grandfather’s home in Lena [Toten], Norway. Dean: You really then saw your first rosemaling in Norway at Lena? Agnes: No, I knew about it before I was in Norway, oh yes. I suppose I had just seen it around—I don’t know where, except the little chest from my aunt. I didn’t know much about it. Anyway, we were going to decorate this bar at our Bellingham home and somehow or other I wanted it “rosemaled,” but couldn’t find anybody who could do it for us. My husband said, “Why don’t you try?” I said, “I could never do it.” This was at the time my oldest daughter went to Smith College in Massachusetts (1945-49), and for some reason, she sent me two bowls that an old Norwegian in Boston had made. Dean: Do you still have the bowls? Agnes: Yes. They are quite crude, but the colors are nice. I am quite color-conscious! I don’t care as much about design as color. So, anyway, I finally put some kind of a detail on one Vesterheim
door—it just looked awful—I had a hard time getting that off. So I took the design that was in one of the Norwegian bowls from Boston and put up a very crude design on the door. Happily it didn’t look too bad. So, from that design, I made designs on all the cupboard doors, eight doors. That was my first experience painting rosemaling, myself. Dean: Did you have previous painting instruction? Agnes: At the university I had taken some classes—in oil painting. Dean: Dr. Nelson [Marion J. Nelson, Vesterheim’s director at the time of the interview] made a comment to me, when I told him about coming to see you. He said he had heard, when you first began rosemaling, that you used enamel paints right out of a can, rather than artist oils—is this true? Agnes: Yes, that’s true. Let me tell how I happened to do that. I stayed in Provincetown, Massachusetts, with my daughter and her husband—my husband was still in the Navy—and this was summer. Everyone there takes art lessons of some kind. Peter Hunt was there and he had a style of his own. I took painting lessons from him—American “peasant” painting. I learned so much from him. Dean: Was it Peter Hunt who got you acquainted with artist oils? Agnes: No, just oil paint, to buy the cans in a paint shop— that’s where I learned that. And I learned to antique . . .
pieces sold in New York up into the hundreds and hundreds of dollars. They are good, too. They are very good. Dean: When did you learn how to mix artist oils together, which I assume you are doing now? Agnes: No, not entirely, I do both. But I still like the other [enamel paint]. It dries quickly. If I paint something, it is dry the next day, and I can continue. If you use artist oils, you can sit around for days waiting for it to dry. Dean: Would you tell a little bit more about what came after you painted the bar doors in 1946? Agnes: Well, people began to hear that I was rosemaling— there are a lot of Norwegians in Bellingham. My husband was a very active person, and I used to have to hold him back, because he was spreading it all over that I was rosemaling. I was so embarrassed. When Marion Nelson called up to ask me to send something to the first museum rosemaling contest, I wasn’t home. My husband answered the phone, and said, “Sure, we will send something!” I was so mad at him, I didn’t speak to him for days. I said, “I am not going to do it.” What he wanted to send was terrible, it was so simple. He sent it, he packed it up and sent it—I didn’t hear a thing about it and I forgot all about it. A month or so later, a girl, Terry Holt, called me up to congratulate me. I said “What for?” and she said for winning a prize. She said it was in the paper from the Associated Press that I had won a first prize. I threw back my head, laughed, and said, “There must be some mistake.” Now, if Felix hadn’t been home when Marion Nelson called, that never would have happened.
Dean: From Peter Hunt? Dean: Was that Dr. Rykken’s first name? Agnes: Yes, and he told my husband I was the best pupil he ever had, but he only took five pupils at the time. I really learned so much from him. I want to show you the boys’ dressing room out back here. It is in Peter Hunt style and I am really proud of that. I think it turned out real well. I don’t frown on Peter Hunt at all. Very charming work. Some of his
Agnes: Yes, Felix Rykken, and I have to give him much credit for what I have done. He pushed me all the time, and he was so good about having things made to paint on, anything I wanted, he loved doing it, and oh so many things he had made for me.
Cupboard painted by Agnes Rykken. Collection of Suzanne Medlicott. Photo courtesy of Alex Medlicott and Kristin Medill.
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Box for playing cards painted by Agnes Rykken. Donated to Vesterheim by Suzanne Medlicott.
Dean: Do you have any idea at all—just a guess—how many pieces you have rosemaled? Could it be 100 or 500? The reason I am asking is because, years from now, when your pieces are antiques and are considered desirable collectors’ items, there may be people who will want to know how many are still left, undiscovered, not yet catalogued. They will count the number that are accounted for and say there are still 25 Agnes Rykken pieces out and nobody yet knows where they are. Agnes: Gee, I don’t have any idea. You see, I painted for a long time, then I quit when I got the bad eye, and then I quit again when a big dog pulled me over and tore the ligaments in my arm, and I am still suffering from that. In the summer, I never did paint, because I have this house full of people, all summer, all the time. But this fall, I am sure I can paint again. I wasn’t sure, but my arm is much better and I think I can.
the lines of old Norwegian traditional designs, perhaps what they call a framskap, which could have been what you might have seen in that old log building that you visited in Lena? Or were you painting on contemporary, American-made pieces currently available. Agnes: Yes, we had no Norwegian pieces. Dean: I thought perhaps you might have had some old Norwegian carpenter that your husband knew about who was capable of making some of the old pieces. Agnes: Yes, but they aren’t big. Dean: You mean tines and things like that? Agnes: Yes, beautiful things this man made—he made so many for me.
Dean: That’s wonderful. Jack Rykken: How many big pieces of furniture have you painted, mother? Cabinets, tables, important pieces?
Dean: Okay, then, other than a painting course with Peter Hunt and whatever you had in an art-appreciation course in college—would that be what you would claim is your formal art education?
Agnes: I don’t have many in this house. Jack: What happened to the ones you had in your big house? Agnes: Well, one time when I was away on the East Coast, Felix came home for something—and I just boil when I think of it. I had almost all my painted things stored up in the attic—we had a big attic upstairs. But Felix had a big lawn sale to get rid of all the stuff. He sold tables, you know we’d get the “twenty,” which is the smallest one of the tables, and they were hard to get. We had lots of them and I painted them and sold them, and then he sold what was left, and he sold lots of them. Dean: So those painted pieces you would guess are maybe still in the Seattle area? Agnes: No, in the Bellingham area. So I think I’ve painted a dozen tables and other furniture.
Agnes: Yes—No, at the same time I was studying with Peter Hunt, I visited a friend in New York whose family had a summer home in Norway. They used to go to Norway every summer. This friend had a tine that I thought was very pretty. She said, “Why don’t you take it home and copy it?” My husband was so happy, he had a whole bunch of these made. I copied the design just as closely as I could, and when I got finished, I could hardly tell the difference. [We are looking at a box with a black background, a rounded lid, and heavy gold painted bands. Decorated with flowers, the top is divided into sections. The box has flower painting on the top, the front, two sides and back, which is quite unusual except for smaller pieces.] Dean: This is why I think you are a natural-born rosemaler, and you have added your “1960.” Is this the copy, or the original?
Dean: Some of these bigger pieces, were they made along 32
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Agnes: This is the copy. I had to send the original back, but you see she was very nice, now there were painted flowers I had never seen before. I think they are nice. Dean: I am going to guess that is a Rogaland-style of flower painting. Old rosemalers didn’t paint the backs . . . Agnes: . . .and many times the sides, too. Dean: I don’t claim to be an expert, though I can generally recognize the various styles from the different valleys of Norway. Rogaland is not as well known as Hallingdal and Telemark. Agnes: But now I hear that trend is going back. Dean: It has gone way over to Rogaland, but basically what has happened is the influence of Vi Thode’s books and style. Vi, a Gold Medal winner and excellent teacher, wrote a book on Rogaland-style rosemaling, which had become so popular with so many that it evolved into something that, in a number of people’s opinions, is more a Vi Thode style than the original Rogaland style. It’s a mutation, an Americanization of Norwegian Rogaland. What I will do is to show a photo of this to Dr. Nelson, who will tell me what style it is. He is one of the foremost experts on rosemaling in the world. Jack: Did you sign your name to your painted pieces, or did you start later on? Did you sign everything from the beginning? Agnes: No, but people have brought things back and asked me to sign them.
Desk and chair painted by Agnes Rykken. Collection of Suzanne Medlicott. Photo courtesy of Alex Medlicott and Kristin Medill.
Agnes: Yes. Dean: Where were you born? Agnes: In Maida, North Dakota. Dean: You have given some very fascinating information about your husband, Dr. Felix Rykken, and his influence on your rosemaling. Could we talk a little bit more about where and when you met him, and would you care to give any other comments about how he influenced your rosemaling?
Jack: Good, and do you now only sign it, or date it too?
Agnes: Felix was the promoter. I have to give him a lot of credit for that because I would just crawl in a corner.
Agnes: I just sign it.
Dean: Where did you meet him?
Jack: You should date it, too.
Agnes: In Bellingham, Washington. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania. He interned at the Methodist hospital in Philadelphia and came to Bellingham, where he started practicing with his uncle, who was also a practicing physician there.
Dean: You say, you are currently 78 years old. That would mean you were born in 1901, is that right?
Dean: Then it was his uncle that was primarily influential in bringing them to Bellingham? Agnes: Yes. I met him there in 1920 and we were married in 1924. Dean: Besides Jack, your son, you have two daughters. Agnes: Yes. Dean: One daughter is in Seattle and lives just behind you here, and her name is – Tine painted by Agnes Rykken. Collection of Suzanne Medlicott. Photo courtesy of Alex Medlicott and Kristin Medill.
Vol. 6, No. 2 2008
Agnes: Rosemary. Dean: Your other daughter is – 33
Agnes: No, I love almost all colors but purple. Dean: How important, in your opinion, is it to stick with what are referred to as “traditional Norwegian colors,” or have you just painted whatever pleased you? Agnes: I painted whatever pleased me. Dean: Do you feel you have an awareness of what would be considered original Norwegian colors? Small trunk painted by Agnes Rykken. Collection of Suzanne Medlicott. Photo courtesy of Alex Medlicott and Kristin Medill.
Agnes: Suzanne. Dean: And she lives in Connecticut. We have had a few questions from Jack about your rosemaling, would either of you care to comment on what maybe your daughters, who are not here, might think about your rosemaling?
Agnes: Yes. Dean: Many rosemalers today have taken advantage of years of teaching available at Vesterheim. As you learned the hard way, without much formal exposure to Norwegian masters of rosemaling, what words of advice or encouragement might you give to beginners without the benefit of instructors? Agnes: I guess it would be to keep going, do it for your own pleasure, if for no other reason.
Agnes: Well, my children have a very high opinion of it. I taught “Roe” to do Peter Hunt, but then she has done a little rosemaling too. She was pretty good until she was in a bad accident with a train and she almost didn’t make it. She still has double vision. She has tried a little rosemaling, but she isn’t very good anymore.
Dean: I have an artist friend, Gerhard C. F. Miller in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin, who oftentimes is asked how do you get to be that good? His standard response to what has become an almost standard question to him is, “Paint a thousand paintings.” Would you say that the more you practice and the more pieces you produce, the better you will get?
Dean: Other than to your daughter, have you ever taught rosemaling?
Agnes: That’s the way you learn, the way I learned. The first ones I did were terrible, but I got better all the time.
Agnes: No, I’ve had so many calls in the past, and I am still getting calls, but I don’t like to teach at all. I am not a good teacher because I think, “If I can learn to do that all by myself, why can’t others do it too?” I just don’t like to teach. I would be very unhappy teaching.
Dean: Did you ever go back and throw out some of the pieces you started with because you didn’t want anyone to know you had done them?
Dean: Have you ever written any articles about rosemaling?
Dean: Do you have any comments about the state of rosemaling today, now that we just went over pictures of the ribbon winners of the 1979 rosemaling contest to give you a little insight into what is being done today? Do you have any comments about that?
Agnes: No. Dean: Of the various things you have painted, such as furniture, plates, and bowls, etc., do you have anything you prefer to paint on? Put another way, did you enjoy bigger pieces more than you enjoyed the smaller pieces? Or did it make any difference? Agnes: I really enjoyed the bigger pieces, but I am not able to do them anymore. I can’t lift. But I have, in the last two years, done nine chests for my nine grandsons. Dean: Have you ever tried painting a wall or ceiling? Agnes: Yes, in one bedroom, a little thing around one bedroom, but out here on the patio, I have painted a beam, and in my daughter’s house I have also painted a beam. Dean: Do you have any particular favorite colors which you enjoy using? 34
Agnes: I don’t think so, I don’t remember doing that.
Agnes: Well, as I said before, Ethel Kvalheim is still my favorite. I think she is so great, still as good as anybody. But those others are good, too. The new ones are very good. I just couldn’t compete with that anymore. Dean: Ethel made the statement on the phone to me the other day. She was absolutely convinced, if she entered the contest today, she wouldn’t win a thing. I have been watching this contest for a long time, almost from the start, and there are now 17 Gold Medal winners. There are certainly those among the laureates where there is no question they could not only still compete, but would be winning rosemaling ribbons today. You and Ethel are two there would be no question about. Agnes: Ethel could, I couldn’t. Vesterheim
Dean: You commented previously about the tendency to get more intricate. Do you think this is a good tendency? Agnes: No! Dean: Why not? Agnes: Oh, I think you can overdo things. Dean: How do you know when to stop when you are developing a rosemaling pattern? Agnes: I don’t know. You just know when to stop, you feel it. That’s a tough question. Now, maybe I would stop sooner than somebody else. Some rosemaling to me is just too much. Dean: Do you feel that the increase in the craft painting ability as contrasted with art (design) ability, has changed over the years? Let me put it another way. People can be a good craftsman—they can paint a very precise “S” scroll or “C” scroll, and lay on a very precise line, very fine, etc., but perhaps not originate or create a design. Now, I take it that you originate designs. Agnes: No, I am not good at designing. A long time ago when I first started, a lady in Bellingham came to see me. I didn’t know her. She was from Norway—born there—and she had taken rosemaling lessons in Norway. She had somehow heard about my rosemaling. We became very good friends. She would come down to my studio and we would work together. She was a beautiful designer, but she couldn’t paint very well, she just wasn’t a good craftsman, but she could make lovely designs. Her name is Mary Horne. Dean: Now, what would she do for you? Would she sort of sketch them out for you?
Agnes: Yes, and then we would work at them together. But later on I decided, when we moved down here to Seattle, I decided I wanted to do my own, but I am not that good. Dean: This is terrific! It answers the great mystery about you—the source of your motifs! Was she influential in your using the little horse design that was on the Blue Ribbon tine you first sent to Vesterheim’s national contest? No, that was yours? Agnes: Yes, that was mine. I saw that first in Norway. It was on an ale cup or something and it had that little deer running around it, and then it is in a book, too. I also saw it in a book. Dean: The book everybody thinks you got it from is Arneberg’s book on handicrafts for men. Agnes: That’s right. Dean: You are now designing your own motifs—where do you go for your ideas now? Agnes: Just anyplace—even in that letter that comes from the museum. Dean: You mean the Rosemaling Letter? Agnes: Yes. I did a pie chest for my grandson. He made the chest and I made two panels that I think are awfully pretty. I got the idea for it from the Rosemaling Letter. Dean: How do you go about deciding the style, colors, and designs you apply to a particular wood piece, and has that method changed over the years as you have matured? Agnes: No, it hasn’t changed. I just start and I don’t have it all planned out. I just keep going. Dean: So you are improvising as you go along? Agnes: Yes, for colors only. Dean: Then the design itself—do you also improvise on the design? Agnes: No, I have that worked out in advance. Dean: How many times have you been to Norway? Agnes: Once. Dean: And that was in what year? Agnes: 1955. Dean: What parts of Norway did you visit when you were there?
Porridger, painted by Agnes Rykken, award a red ribbon at the Third Annual Rosemaling Exhibition, Decorah, Iowa, July 26-28, 1969. Vesterheim 1969.030.001—Gift of the artist. Vol. 6, No. 2 2008
Agnes: We were in Oslo and we took the train to Bergen . . . and this is something I should tell you. Who is that old, old rosemaler in Norway? 35
Dean: Oh, Knute Hovden? Agnes: Yes, Knute Hovden. Now, you might find this interesting. Mary Horne, she knew him. I don’t know how she learned of Knute Hovden, but this was during the war. She used to write to Knute Hovden—like I was writing it, but she wrote the letter—and asked him if he had anything he would like to sell, or had any designs at all. He wrote back and said, yes, and oh! He sent me so many designs. I have a lot of his pieces and paintings. Dean: That is wonderful. These are the things we want to have in our conversations. Significant influences are quite important. Which of the old rosemaler painters influenced you the most, or have you admired the most, and what did you admire about them? Now, of course, Knute Hovden is still contemporary. As far as we know, he is still living, but he goes back so many years he almost fills the gap between when rosemaling was declared almost dead, or at least benign in Norway, up to the present time. He was one of the very few practicing rosemalers that really were relatively unknown in the Norwegian scholarly world. You know Margaret Miller [Margie Utzinger now] wrote to the museum at Oslo, back in 1965, and wanted to know where she could come and get training in rosemaling. They wrote back to her and said, “Rosemaling is a dead art, you can’t come to Norway and get training in it anymore.” Which wasn’t true, because we know Knute was teaching it back in the 1940s, and Sigmund obviously learned from rosemalers that were practicing. Agnes: Knute is the oldest? Dean: I think you are right. Agnes: But there is another example I have downstairs by, I am told (I think it was Margie Miller who told me), the best rosemaler in Norway.
Ale Bowl, painted by Agnes Rykken, unknown date. Vesterheim 1986.129.006—Gift of Rosemary Eckmann.
Dean: Now, Mary must have heard about you, Agnes, maybe because of your husband’s promoting you. . . Agnes: That’s possible. My husband was Norwegian and had a lot of Norwegian patients. Mary Horne helped me so much. She found a man in Bellingham who made these bellows. They were just beautifully made and dated 1952. Mary is responsible for getting those made and she helped me with the design, too. Dean: I notice you haven’t signed this one. . .
Dean: Who was that? Agnes: I haven’t? Agnes: I hope he signed it, I don’t know. Dean: Was it a Hallingdal painter? Agnes: I don’t know, but I’ll take you down to look at it. Dean: The one that Margie possibly knows and might have been thinking of is Lars Sataøyen, who put on a demonstration for us in Geilo—he is excellent. I will take a look at the piece downstairs. Lars, of course, is a relative of Nils Ellingsgard.
Dean: I haven’t seen it anywhere. You are going to have to sign that. At least you have dated it. That’s a nice example of Hallingdal style, too. Do you have a preference among the various Norwegian styles of rosemaling? Agnes: I like Hallingdal. Dean: You like it the best? Agnes: Yes, better than Telemark.
Agnes: I think it is so interesting that accidentally Mary Horne just came to my house in Bellingham, just knocked at the door one day. Dean: Is that right?
Dean: Do you have any particular piece of your own rosemaling that you are especially fond of . . . a piece you would feel represents an important example of your work, within a particular style?
Agnes: And if it hadn’t been for Mary Horne, I would never have known Knute Hovden.
Agnes: The corner cupboards in the living room and the coffee table, I would think, and the table too.
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Dean: You would feel what is in your living room at the present time are good pieces? Would these be some of your best work? Agnes: Probably. Dean: When were most of those pieces decorated? Agnes: The corner cupboards came out of our house in Bellingham. They were in my dining room there when my husband took our house all apart. He brought them down here to Seattle, but he was trying to get rid of them. They were so big and clumsy. I pleaded, “Please don’t get rid of them.” He said, “But there is no place to put them!” So Jim Eckmann, my son-in-law said, “I’ll take care of them,” which he did. Jack: You painted them about 1952. Dean: Are those Hallingdal style, or what would you say they are? Agnes: Hallingdal, yes. I have all those designs and I love them. I have favorite motifs that I keep using, of course. Maybe I shouldn’t use them so much. That bridal couple, I just love them, and I keep using it.
in the last few years, been referring to as “Sigmaling.” We do this simply because anyone familiar with rosemaling would look at it and say, “That is not rosemaling!” And so rather than confuse and/or have people feel they have been misled, we coined the new word “Sigmaling.” He originated it, h e ought to be able to get some credit for a new school. He thinks that if, a hundred years from now, he is remembered for painting, that he will be remembered for his “Sigmaling,” rather than for the many very beautiful traditional pieces he has produced. Agnes: I don’t believe that . . . I haven’t seen them, but the idea doesn’t appeal to me. Dean: Speaking along that same evolutionary line, how much do you think variance is allowable? In other words, you, for instance, because of your color sense have maintained a voluntary discipline by sticking to the traditional, or almost traditional, Norwegian colors. As we pass this craft and art and skill to other people, who are obviously different, we will get different views and opinions on this discipline of tradition. Now, the question is, how far can anyone vary before it is no longer Norwegian rosemaling and it becomes American rosemaling, or American “something?” Would you care to comment? Agnes: I don’t know if I could even answer that.
Dean: Have you ever wandered up a blind alley with a design, stopped and backed out, so to speak? Agnes: I never have, if I started something, I always finished it. I don’t like to start things—I have a hard time starting. But I love to finish them. I always finish things.
Dean: You know what I am talking about, though? Agnes: Yes, I know. I don’t like the bright colors some use. I don’t think old rosemaling was ever too bright. Dean: They used earth colors, which are usually subdued.
Dean: Over the years, have you ever felt that you have done one thing maybe enough and that it is time to try another? For instance, your tole painting, did this occur before you started rosemaling, in the middle, or . . . Agnes: Just intermediate, we were in the east, you see, and there is lots of tole in the east. I just did it there. I think tole is very nice, but it isn’t as nice as rosemaling, Dean: I’d venture a guess you would win ribbons in a tole painting contest. Do you have any feelings about whether Norwegian styles of rosemaling in America will evolve into an American style of rosemaling? Agnes: Oh, I hear Sigmund is doing modern. Now to me that is just ridiculous, I wouldn’t like it at all. Dean: Well, I will send you pictures showing the things he does. Then you can decide whether you like it or not. Let me only explain, it has evolved from rosemaling roots that he is so superb at. One of the fascinating things I have seen him do is use the same pallette of colors to produce a lovely traditional rosemaling design, and then on another panel right along side, he will do his modern motif, that we have, Vol. 6, No. 2 2008
Agnes: Yes. Dean: What, in your opinion, makes Norwegian rosemaling discernible from other national folk arts? In other words, it is discernible from Swedish, from Swiss, from Austrian, etc. Why? Is it a style? Agnes: I don’t like Swedish folk art as much as Norwegian folk art, but I don’t know what the difference is, I can just tell. Dean: How much can the distinctive style of Norwegian rosemaling be tampered with before it becomes something else, something unrecognized as Norwegian rosemaling? Agnes: Your questions are too hard [laughs]. Dean: Those are quite philosophical, I apologize.
Bellows, painted by Mary Horne and Agnes Rykken, ca. 1900-1970. Rosemaling on object begun by donor, Mary Horne, and completed by Agnes Rykken after Horne injured her hand. Vesterheim 1980.009.001—Gift of Mary Horne. 37
Interior detail of trunk painted by Agnes Rykken. Collection of Suzanne Medlicott. Photo courtesy of Alex Medlicott and Kristin Medill.
Agnes: Oh, I didn’t know that. Agnes: I don’t know, really. Dean: Do you feel that evolution is possible and that nothing is static, and if so, at what point in such evolution will the name rosemaling have to be changed, such as we have changed Sigmund’s new thing from rosemaling to “Sigmaling?” If the evolution goes too far, do you think it does make sense to give it a new name . . . Agnes: Sure. Dean: . . . that you can’t continue calling it rosemaling? Agnes: Yes. Dean: Do you think there is any danger of rosemaling in America dying out, as it was alleged to have done in Norway after about 1860 or so? Agnes: No way. It will never die out here. It has grown by leaps and bounds, I think. Dean: Are you aware that there are more tole painters in America than there are rosemalers, and that tole painters have a national organization? In fact, they had their national convention here in Seattle last year.
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Dean: Do you feel the quality of today’s American rosemalers will in later years qualify their works for inclusion in authoritative books on American antiques? Agnes: Some of them certainly would qualify. . . Ethel . . . Dean: . . . Vi Thode, Sallie DeReus . . . Agnes: Surely they will. There are a lot of unknown people doing it for their own amusement, giving presents to their relatives, whom we will never know. Dean: What qualities of effort and ability in applying recognized rosemaling skills would you estimate is a requirement necessary to produce quality antiques of the future? For instance, you admire Ethel Kvalheim’s work—what is there about her work that you feel is so distinctive and of such high quality? Agnes: I think before she did rosemaling, she must have been a very good artist to begin with. Her work is just so good. Dean: It isn’t an easy question to answer . . . and especially since you have never been back to Decorah and the national contest to see what these people are doing. Vesterheim
Agnes: I have a book by Ethel Kvalheim. Some of her work I don’t like because I don’t like the colors. I think she has toned down her colors since the book, I don’t like colors that are too bright. Dean: Remember I asked you that question, “How do you know when to stop?” Sigmund one time volunteered an answer for that, which amused me. (Sigmund is a humorous, very subtle guy anyway.) He said, “You know when to stop when you feel it here,” and he pointed to his stomach. What he meant is, it is sort of a gut feeling that you have, maybe a woman would call it intuition. You can keep adding more and more detail, yet you just have to have a feeling in your heart that this is time to stop . . . this is done. Agnes: I like something not too overdone. I like rather simple things and I like muted colors. Dean: We talked about your using enamel paints right out of cans, which I think is going to come as a real shocker to a lot of rosemalers. Agnes: Maybe you shouldn’t tell them. Dean: No? Frankly, the thing they are going to be amazed at is the quality of work you are able to produce with standard out-of-the-can colors! Now, what about your colors, they are so good, conservative, do you mix any colors yourself? Now do you have a tiny little can and just add different colors?
Dean: Have you read Sigmund’s and Margaret Miller’s book on Norwegian rosemaling? Agnes: I’m very poor on reading instructions . . . I don’t like to read instructions. . . . Dean: All I can say, from the compliments I’ve heard about the quality of your work that I have heard from Sigmund, Cissi [Margaret Miller], and others, I don’t know of any reason why you should have to read a “how to” book, your work is so good to begin with. Such a book, however, would possibly broaden ability and versatility in using other brushes. I have heard rosemalers talk about how, in Hallingdal painting, they use round brushes and in, maybe it’s Telemark, they use flat brushes. I may be wrong in making that statement, but I do think technique has varied a bit from valley to valley . . . Agnes: I don’t know anything about that. . . . [Agnes hands Dean a plate decorated in Telemark style on a grey background.] I wanted to show you this plate. Cissi [Margaret Miller] told me he was one of the best artists in Norway. Dean: G. Norbø. This was Sigmund Aarseth’s teacher in Telemark. Oh, it is excellent, absolutely exquisite. His wife, Ruth, has been to Vesterheim and taught. Agnes: Is he still living? Dean: I don’t believe so. His name is Gunnar Nordbø.
Agnes: Well, I put it on a pallette. Dean: You do put it on a pallette? Agnes: Oh, yes, I paint the same way as most artists, I put it on a pallette. Dean: Instead of getting a color out of a lead tube like most artists colors, you are getting it out of cans. Do you use any particular brand of enamels? Agnes: Well, I started using . . . I learned this from Peter Hunt and in his book he tells about it . . . it’s Duco. Dean: That would be a DuPont product? Agnes: Yes, DuPont. This was four-hour enamel, shiny. Then for backgrounds I used a paint just like you paint the wall with. Dean: What do you do to kill the shine to make it flat? Agnes: Oh, I put matte varnish over it! I varnish and antique. Dean: And what about brushes? Do you use round brushes, or flat brushes, or both? Agnes: Just round brushes only. Really, I have some flat, but I don’t know how to use them. You see, I have never had any training in using brushes. Vol. 6, No. 2 2008
Agnes Rykken in her basment studio, holding a plate painted by Gunnar Nordbø. Photo courtesy of Dean Madden. 39
Agnes: I have never seen anyone do this before. Dean: This is a beautiful chest you have done for Peter. Is this when you painted it, in 1978? Agnes: Yes, this is the last one I did. Now, the first one I made, I sent to Wisconsin for the chest. It came and was just awful. It was made of plywood. I did paint it for my granddaughter. But then, I have four grandsons living next door, who are very good craftsmen, and so Peter made me six of these, well built, and they are just beautiful. He is just a young boy. Dean: How old is he? Agnes: Twenty-four. Dean: That is excellent craftsmanship. Agnes: I think so, too. Dean: What does the motto say? Agnes: This is for a boy that is very tall. [It reads] “There is no one so tall that he has not to stretch himself.” Peter’s name is also on the back of the chest. Dean: You have done a nice job painting the inside of these chests, too. You know, we have people in the Midwest that thought you weren’t painting anymore, but this certainly is not true. Agnes: Well, but not much. Dean: Anyone that has your talent doesn’t have to do very much when it is all so beautiful. Let me look at some of. . . what do you call these? Agnes: These are bride’s boxes. All the kids had bride’s boxes, but I also made groom’s boxes and I made six more of them. They are all made with the same pattern, with different colors, but they are for the boys. . . .This is something else I have made: birth certificates! Dean: Now what do you paint those on? Agnes: On parchment paper. And this is the boy’s and that’s the girl’s. The first thing I do, I have to put all the information in there. That is, I do that with India ink. After I’m through with the ink, I just cover it with lacquer and then I treat it as a piece of wood. I can paint over the lacquer. . . . When I make a design, I don’t make a real design. I just kind of sketch them, so my designs are rough, nobody could use them but me. Dean: Well, you might be surprised. Agnes: Another thing I made for my grandchildren were music boxes. Each grandchild got a music box. Dean: They are fortunate grandchildren. These are treasures by themselves! 40
Marilynn and Dean Madden. Photo courtesy of Norma Wangsness.
About the Author Dean Madden, Vesterheim’s foremost patron of rosemaling, served on Vesterheim’s Board of Trustees for 36 years and was the Board’s first vice-president, from 1968 to 1987. Enthusiastic patrons of Norway’s folk arts, particularly rosemaling, Dean and his beloved wife, Marilynn Ann Amdal Madden, have gathered together what is likely the finest private collection of modern rosemaling in America and have commissioned many major rosemaling works. The Maddens were instrumental in helping Marion Nelson bring noted artist Sigmund Aarseth to teach at Vesterheim in the late 1960s, inaugurating the museum’s folk-art education program, and in the 1970s they organized early folk-art tours to Norway, which later evolved into Vesterheim’s tour program. Dean and Marilynn have donated countless pieces of important rosemaling to the museum and funded Vesterheim’s Amdal-Odland Heritage Center, which includes the remarkable primstav murals painted by Sigmund Aarseth and American Gold Medal rosemaler Sallie Haugen DeReus. The Maddens also sponsored a museum publication on Aarseth’s primstav murals, Marking of Time, with text by Kathleen Stokker, and an issue of Vesterheim magazine on rosemaling (Vol. 2, No. 2). They are Silver Level Kroneklubben (Crown Club) members and the museum has recognized their ongoing generosity by giving them Vesterheim’s Mange Takk Award in 2003.
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