meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,454 Real Name: Michael
Enough is enough! Every member needs to read this! First of all, let me tell everyone that I have now put on my "Watchgeeks Owner" hat in making this post instead of my "Invicta employee" hat. I know that this post will be copied and placed onto the hater blogs and hater websites with all sorts of additional blowhard types of commentary. That is fine. I just want to be sure that everyone reading this will fully understand that I am saying this as the guy who had the concept for this site, built it and over the course of the last 2 years and 117 days spent, literally, thousands of hours in front of a computer keeping it running. With that being said, let me begin here with a bit of a history lesson. "Back in the day", I was a member on another site. Over the course of some time, I went from member to moderator and then from moderator to administrator. Many folks here know me from those days. I was a real fan of both Invicta and Renato at that time. The long and short of it is that over time, it became a completely and totally negative place towards those that liked Invicta, Renato and any other brand that was deemed to be a "TV brand". Jim was attacked numerous times on a daily basis as was SNBC. Invicta and Eyal were, of course, attacked. Daniel Mink was attacked. Members were attacked and belittled. And all of this was supported, in large part, by the majority (but not all) of the owners of the site at that time. Members, owners and other members of the staff (many of whom had not purchased the watches or from the brands in question at all or in years) would troll the various parts of the forum just looking for an opportunity to jump into a thread where they could just be negative. It was just a down right negative place to be. It was not fun and was just sucking the joy out of the hobby of watch collecting for alot of folks...myself included. I ended up resigning my position as an admin there and this was the genesis for the creation of WatchGeeks. Now, as I look around and survey the landscape that is WatchGeeks, I see much of the same thing going on here. After coming to this realization, here is what I have to say: Enough is enough! One way or the other, THIS WILL END! I encourage everyone reading this post to, once finished reading it, log out of WatchGeeks and spend the next day or so off of the site. During that time, I would ask that you reflect upon why it is that you are here. I would ask you to reflect upon your own actions here over the last few weeks. And I would, lastly, ask you to reflect upon what it is that you want from this site in the future. If, after this bit of reflection, you decide that you want a positive place to enjoy the hobby of watch collecting and you decide that you want to be a positive contributor to such a place, then log back in and begin enjoying the site. If you decide that you cannot get over your negative actions and words, then just don't come back. You are not wanted here. If, for whatever reason, you don't have the selfcontrol or restraint to stay off of the site, then shoot me a PM and I will arrange it so that you cannot access the site.
Beginning today, the over blown negativity on this site will end. I don't care if you are male, female or other. I don't care if you are the biggest customer of any of the individual brands or shopping networks/venues represented here. I don't care if you have been here since day one. I don't care how many posts you have. I don't care how popular or unpopular you are. If you are one of the people here who seem to exist only to "stir the pot" and otherwise post almost nothing but negative comments or thinly veiled drive by nasty comments, you will either leave of your own accord or you will be shown the door. Look folks, there are over 100 different areas of this forum where you can go and enjoy watch collecting and be a positive and contributing member of this site. Surely you can find a place that interests you, where all of the negativity is not needed. Quit complaining about brands that you won't buy any more. Quit complaining about venues that you won't buy from any more. You know why? Because when it comes down to brass tacks, no one really gives a damn what you don't like and what you are not going to do. Instead of posting complaints about the watches you are not going to buy, go post about the watches that you have bought or will be buying. Instead of complaining about the brands you won't buy, go post about the brands that you are buying. Instead of complaining about venues that you won't purchase from, go post about the venues that you are purchasing from. Instead of complaining about the pricing you don't like, post about where you are getting the good pricing and good deals. There is a Rolex forum on this site. I don't post there. Why? Because I personally happen to think that Rolex time pieces are too small, are over priced and are over hyped status symbols. If I don't like them, don't buy them and don't ever foresee doing either, why would I go and try to participate there? The Rolex forum is there for those that have their time pieces. It is there for those that want to talk about their time pieces. It is there for those interested in their time pieces. I don't have them. I don't like them. I am not interested in them. What possible positive contribution would I be making to the conversations and members there? Virtually none. So, the same hold true for the rest of you. Don't like a particular brand? Great! Good for you! Enjoy that decision! BUT! Stay out of their forums and the threads about them. Just as I have nothing to really contribute to the folks in the Rolex forum, you don't have much to contribute to whatever brand it is that you don't like. Conduct yourself accordingly. Let those that like that brand enjoy themselves here. You then can go to the forums that interest you and you can enjoy yourself there and make positive contributions there. Here is the bottom line that you need to concern yourself with. WatchGeeks was started as a place where folks could come to ENJOY watch collecting. It was started to be a positive place. Now, due to some, it is a much more negative place. This will end. You will either find a way to positively contribute to the site or you will leave. If you don't leave and continue with your negative ways, then you will be banned. It really is just that simple. The decision is yours to make. Now, after saying all of this, there will be two main "arguments" as to what I have said. Please, let me save you time and address both of them here and now. First, save me the lame arguments of "freedom of speech". If you bring that up, all that you have shown me is that you were asleep during the day in your high school civics, government and/or history class where this was discussed. Your right to free speech is a protection against the government, not a watch forum. If you doubt this, I have a field trip
you can take to prove this. Go to a theater the night a new movie opens up. Wait until about half way through it and then begin to exercise your "right to free speech" by talking loudly on the phone and see what happens. Someone will complain to management. Management will come to ask you to stop. Should you refuse and continue to exercise your "free speech", you will be asked to leave. Pretty simple. The theater is there to allow you in as a guest and enjoy watching a movie. You are a guest there as are all of the other people there. You do not have a right to free speech there. No more than you have a right to anything else contained within the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. WatchGeeks is no different. You are a guest here. We allow people to use our bulletin board system to discuss and enjoy watch collecting. Should you do anything that interferes with someone's ability to do that, we can ask you to either correct the behavior and/or ask you to leave. You have no rights here, free speech or otherwise. If you doubt what I am saying about this, please refer to this link and have a quick read: http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/First_amendment Second, I am in no way saying that you cannot post something about an issue that you are having with your watch or something else related to watches. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of threads on this site that express problems or issues. They stay within our TOS and no one has an issue with them. This is NOT changing. However, please be aware that we are NOT a customer service portal for any vendor or venue. If you have a broken or otherwise defective watch, posting about it here is not going to get your issue resolved. You should contact the vendor in question directly and access their customer service group and avail yourself of their policy and procedures. If you feel that you must post here, go ahead. Just state what the issue is and ask whatever you need to. If someone has a solution, they can post a response. If you don't have a potential solution for this person, it is simple. Just don't respond. Telling that person how horrible the company is, how horrible the owner of the company is, how bad their QC is and all of that sort of stuff is not a solution. Besides, when that does happen, then the folks that do like the brand/venue jump in to say how many watches they have with no issues and then it just devolves into a "tit for tat" back and forth between the pro and anti forces. The issue doesn't get resolved, the thread gets hijacked and it is just more negativity. It is not needed and will not be allowed. So that is it folks. Again, it is all pretty simple. We are all supposed to be here to enjoy watches. It is time to do that. Or, more correctly, it is time to get back to doing that. I hope that I have the support of everyone in making this happen. If we need to do it with less members here, then so be it. Reflect on why you are here. If this is not the place for you, then now is the time for you to make that decision for yourself and then act accordingly. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,454 Real Name: Michael
Quote: Originally Posted by watchnut62 Michael: I respect you and Jim and everyone here. I read your post and you made it crystal clear you dont want negative posts. I can understand that. This is your site and you guys make the rules. I am sure that we should all be happy that this site exists. I for one was happy I found this site. While this is your site and you can set the rules. I feel that if someone has a problem with a watch or watch company they can use alternative avenues to get it resolved. Why would they post it here? Why let anyone know about getting a broken watch from a companies lack of QC or a vendors sloppy shipping or bad CS. Let everyone find out themselves and make their own decision. Sounds fair to me. I still respect you and mike and everyone here but I must take this last post by you as my reason to leave the forum. I do thank everyone (you and Jim included) for all the great information and the friendships I formed here. I wish you all good luck and please enjoy your watch collecting. I will still do some collecting but this last month has taken the joy of collecting and sucked it dry. Wasnt the people here. The reason will remain with me so I dont make my last post a negative one. I've already made the company aware of my displeasure with them. Enough Said. I am sorry that you are leaving. However, on the off chance you will see this, I don't think you read my post closely enough. Allow me to state, again, the following: Quote: Second, I am in no way saying that you cannot post something about an issue that you are having with your watch or something else related to watches. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of threads on this site that express problems or issues. They stay within our TOS and no one has an issue with them. This is NOT changing. If you post about a problem or an issue, that is not being negative. The negativity comes into play where it gets into the back and forth over whether or not a person/brand/watch/venue/whatever "sucks" or not. Got a problem? Post it and let's see if we can help resolve it. Don't have a resolution to it? Don't post. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,454 Real Name: Michael
Quote: Originally Posted by Ronko Man All points are taken Mike, however I don't lilke to sweep issues under the carpet & just say oh well & that's how I feel a certain issue has played out & this has brought me great disappointment & lost of trust. Some of the negative comments could be handled much better by those who post & I agree they prey on this, but also keep in mind alot of negative threads are because of problems with the mfg & imo this creates a snowball effect of bad comments. I think I have been fair in all of my comments on this site since I joined & I do enjoy it, as I have made many friends, but I also have lost that feeling of trust. I would ask you to re-read my post once again. No one is asking anyone else to sweep anything under the rug. Here it is again for you: Quote: I am in no way saying that you cannot post something about an issue that you are having with your watch or something else related to watches. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of threads on this site that express problems or issues. They stay within our TOS and no one has an issue with them. This is NOT changing. As I said...if you have an issue, you can post it. Where we have a problem is when someone has a problem, they feel wronged. Once they have aired their issue, they then feel as though they now either deserve or need to post about it at every possible opportunity. That is where it starts to get old. You can go back through the majority of the negative threads here and find these people. Catch the negative post, go to their profile and list all of the posts they have made and almost all of the posts are negative. You start throwing in the unsubstantiated claims, wild ass speculation and all of the rest and it quickly goes down hill from there.
The point is, post your issue. Once you have, move on. Go talk about the watches you are buying and that are not giving you any issues. If you decide not to do business with a company any more, then it is not necessary to continue to be negative towards them. You have stated what the issue is, others have read it, you have voted with your wallet to deny them your money and we all move on. Let the folks that still like the brand to continue to enjoy it the same way we will all let you enjoy the brands that you like and continue to give your business to. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!
#155 Today, 08:34 PM meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,454 Real Name: Michael
Quote: Originally Posted by four7mm Mike your post was heartfelt and sincere and important enough for me to post an idea for your consideration. I don't know if you'll get to my post since there are about 142 posts ahead of me. Unless I am getting forgetful in my older age, when I joined WGs the Forum rules were optional reading. Perhaps you could consider making your post and several other Forum rules posts required reading for both current and new members at the next sign in before we can sign back in. My idea parallels the military wherein one has to re-take the military pledge of allegiance in order to re-enlist. Our TOS is not optional. To become a member here, you must read it (at least it appears on the screen, we ask everyone to read it) and then they have to check a box stating that they agree to the rules. We even have installed software where we can force someone to have to go back and re-agree to the TOS before they can make a post or respond to PMs. We attempted to use that with folks that were causing problems in an effort to emphasize
to them the fact that they had fallen outside of the bounds of our TOS. Sometimes it work, other times...not so much. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono Invicta...in hoc nomen vinces!