A russian article about the russian diver (updated with bs from jim) continued

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Altamonte Springs, FL Posts: 414 Real Name: Rob

rhickey Senior Member Senior Geek

Panerai is all about "look at me" ! rhickey View Public Profile Send a private message to rhickey Find all posts by rhickey Add rhickey to Your Contacts #77 08-06-2010, 08:58 PM

sanlover99

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 272

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhickey Panerai is all about "look at me" ! considering 99% of the population have never heard of panerai and considering that their design although on the larger side is understated and bland. so how is panerai "look at me" again? sanlover99 View Public Profile Send a private message to sanlover99 Find all posts by sanlover99 Add sanlover99 to Your Contacts #78 08-06-2010, 10:19 PM

Chascomm Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 156

Originally Posted by kmt I found this image by Jim showing what appears to be the exact same style of watch as in the ShopNBC presentation:

Other than the missing hands in the image cap, they look identical.

The main practical difference is that the Invicta is a bit smaller and therefore a bit more wearable (without a diving suit). Other differences are in the case construction. The Russian one is a top-loader with solid back. Also the 'canteen' crown protector is a different design in some details.

The watch on the right looks to me like one of the modern reproductions due to the markings on the dial and the colour of the luminous material applied to the dial and hands.

It may be (can't be sure from the photo) that the bezel has the optional spacer that can be used to replace the crystal-protecting grille usually supplied with such watches. The screws on the dial are not visible unfortunately so they can't be used as an indication of it being a

new or an old. The bezel is the more rounded shape usually associated with the modern reproductions, however that is complicated by there having been at least two distinct runs of 191-ChS, with small differences around the bezel and the backs of the lugs.

One problem here is that the only well-documented watches are the original 191-ChS, the modern Russian reproduction and the modern Invicta. If it just happens that all the detail differences between the original and the Russian reproduction are exactly the same as the differences between the original and the 1959 Invicta, then we're none the wiser by looking at the outside of the watch.

Do we have a back view of the claimed 1959 watch?

Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #79 08-06-2010, 10:27 PM

louisvillelibertyinvicta

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 36

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Nor do I seek the "LOOK AT ME" but when someone, who does not normaly even look at watches stops me and wants to see one of my Invicta watches and when they find out that they can get the look they want for the price they want it is a feel of satisfcation like no other. I am a succesfull business owner and when a company can produce a product that offers a value proposition that exites customers I also get exited. I understand that their may be people who do not fit in some peoples watch collectors box or profile and are not as refined as some would like but Invicta has brought in many people and overall has done a great job. Two of the most satisfying things in the past year has been giving my daughter leaving for the Navy my S1 Racer and giving a clients son who was leaving for Iraq a Russian Diver he loved the first time he saw it and the appreciation was amazing. louisvillelibertyinvicta View Public Profile Send a private message to louisvillelibertyinvicta Find all posts by louisvillelibertyinvicta Add louisvillelibertyinvicta to Your Contacts #80 08-06-2010, 10:44 PM

kmt

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18

Junior Member New Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chascomm The main practical difference is that the Invicta is a bit smaller and therefore a bit more

wearable (without a diving suit). Other differences are in the case construction. The Russian one is a top-loader with solid back. Also the 'canteen' crown protector is a different design in some details.

The watch on the right looks to me like one of the modern reproductions due to the markings on the dial and the colour of the luminous material applied to the dial and hands.

It may be (can't be sure from the photo) that the bezel has the optional spacer that can be used to replace the crystal-protecting grille usually supplied with such watches. The screws on the dial are not visible unfortunately so they can't be used as an indication of it being a new or an old. The bezel is the more rounded shape usually associated with the modern reproductions, however that is complicated by there having been at least two distinct runs of 191-ChS, with small differences around the bezel and the backs of the lugs.

One problem here is that the only well-documented watches are the original 191-ChS, the modern Russian reproduction and the modern Invicta. If it just happens that all the detail differences between the original and the Russian reproduction are exactly the same as the differences between the original and the 1959 Invicta, then we're none the wiser by looking at the outside of the watch.

Do we have a back view of the claimed 1959 watch?

Thank you for the response. Actually, I was asking you to compare this new watch picture with the screen cap from ShopNBC of the purported 1959 Invicta, not compare the two watches in the photo. Here are both for comparison:

Now, in your opinion, does the watch on the right of the top picture look like the watch on the right in the bottom picture?

Are they essentially the same style (case, rounded bezel, chrome plating/SS, dial, lume color, etc.) from what detail you can make out in the photos?

Thanks kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #81 08-07-2010, 12:39 AM

Chascomm

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Western Australia Posts: 156

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kmt Thank you for the response. Actually, I was asking you to compare this new watch picture with the screen cap from ShopNBC of the purported 1959 Invicta, not compare the two

watches in the photo. Here are both for comparison:

Now, in your opinion, does the watch on the right of the top picture look like the watch on the right in the bottom picture?

Are they essentially the same style (case, rounded bezel, chrome plating/SS, dial, lume color, etc.) from what detail you can make out in the photos?

Thanks Just my opinion, but I can't make out a difference between the two photos.

So does anybody have a photo of the caseback of the 1959?

Chascomm View Public Profile Send a private message to Chascomm Find all posts by Chascomm Add Chascomm to Your Contacts #82 08-07-2010, 05:42 AM

RunninOnEmpty Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhickey Panerai is all about "look at me" !

Sounds to me like someone here doesn't own a Panerai.

RunninOnEmpty View Public Profile Send a private message to RunninOnEmpty Find all posts by RunninOnEmpty Add RunninOnEmpty to Your Contacts #83 08-07-2010, 10:32 AM

louisvillelibertyinvicta

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 36

Member Member Geek Clarification

Just to clarify what my original point was, which I think I may of worded incorrectly or at least it may of been misunderstood. I have no problem with "Purist" and have no problem with anyone who purchases high end watches and is not exited about anything Invicta. I not only understand but respect anyone who appreciates craftsmanship and quality and keeps the very highest standards. My issue has been the ones, and they probably are the minority but very vocal, who everytime anything positive is stated about Invicta goes on the attack and has to put down Invicta. I have read your posts and in no way are you or many of the what I call "Purists" like that. Just wanted to clarify what I realy think and to ensure I was not being like the ones I was complaining about. Thankfully on this site I have seen very very little of that compared to many other forums. Most of what I have seen on this forum is true honest debate on some very real issues that Invicta has experienced. louisvillelibertyinvicta View Public Profile Send a private message to louisvillelibertyinvicta Find all posts by louisvillelibertyinvicta Add louisvillelibertyinvicta to Your Contacts #84 08-07-2010, 11:00 AM

Hotspur Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Here - now Posts: 1,215 Real Name: William (Bill)

Quote:

Originally Posted by louisvillelibertyinvicta Just to clarify what my original point was, which I think I may of worded incorrectly or at least it may of been misunderstood. I have no problem with "Purist" and have no problem with anyone who purchases high end watches and is not exited about anything Invicta. I not only understand but respect anyone who appreciates craftsmanship and quality and keeps the very highest standards. My issue has been the ones, and they probably are the minority but very vocal, who everytime anything positive is stated about Invicta goes on

the attack and has to put down Invicta. I have read your posts and in no way are you or many of the what I call "Purists" like that. Just wanted to clarify what I realy think and to ensure I was not being like the ones I was complaining about. Thankfully on this site I have seen very very little of that compared to many other forums. Most of what I have seen on this forum is true honest debate on some very real issues that Invicta has experienced.

Suggest future use of "snobs" rather than "purists". Believe this suits your intention more accurately. __________________

They all wound - the last one kills (inscribed below a 15th century clock) Hotspur View Public Profile Send a private message to Hotspur Find all posts by Hotspur Add Hotspur to Your Contacts #85 08-07-2010, 07:17 PM

Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Machester, Ct. Posts: 2,288 Real Name: Joe H

JoeH Senior Member Super Geek

I love my russian divers...... __________________ Joe

JoeH View Public Profile

Send a private message to JoeH Send email to JoeH Find all posts by JoeH Add JoeH to Your Contacts #86 08-07-2010, 10:22 PM

louisvillelibertyinvicta

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 36

Member Member Geek Agreed.

You are correct and I should of not used the word "Purist". It did not make the point it was intended and made it appear I had issues with Purist and I do not at all. Thank You Thanks Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotspur Suggest future use of "snobs" rather than "purists". Believe this suits your intention more accurately. louisvillelibertyinvicta View Public Profile Send a private message to louisvillelibertyinvicta Find all posts by louisvillelibertyinvicta Add louisvillelibertyinvicta to Your Contacts #87 08-07-2010, 11:15 PM Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,191 Real Name: William

SeaVulture Senior Member Super Geek

I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety.

I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point.

A watch is a watch.

If you like it, buy it.

If you don't, then don't.

Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good.

But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy.

I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory from St. Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've

made the designs since that time.

The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums. __________________

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #88 Yesterday, 12:32 AM

kmt

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 18

Junior Member New Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety.

I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point.

A watch is a watch.

If you like it, buy it.

If you don't, then don't.

Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good.

But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy.

I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory

from St. Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've made the designs since that time.

The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums.

I'm not sure what you're on about, but the Zlatoust Watch Factory was formed because of the evacuation of the First State Watch Factory from Moscow, not St. Petersburg. kmt View Public Profile Find all posts by kmt Add kmt to Your Contacts #89 Yesterday, 02:30 AM

nevamine

Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Upcountry Maui Posts: 346 Real Name: Bruno

Senior Member Senior Geek

And thats all he has to say about that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forest Gump. __________________ Lets go fishin and nevamine View Public Profile Send a private message to nevamine Send email to nevamine Find all posts by nevamine Add nevamine to Your Contacts #90 Today, 06:02 AM Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 355

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Invicta Watch Group is a Florida-based watch repair company, trading on the name, but a distinct entity from the company founded in 1837 by Raphael Picard in La Chaux-defonds, Switzerland. The Picard family owned and operated the company until 1991, when the company was purchased by a United States-based investment company. The corporate headquarters were relocated to Hollywood, Florida, where the company also operates its service call center. Eyal Lalo, former head of Invicta marketing in South America, is the

CEO of the company and frequently appears on televised ShopNBC programs,

i do have a question no one has seemed to ask... if eyal's family didn't take control of invicta until 1991. then how did his grandmother have anything to do the commision of the 100 pieces back in the 50's is there something that i'm missing here?? or did she not have anything to do with invicta at all, and just happened to have came across two of the origanals the she gave to him? sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #91 Today, 08:04 AM Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Freehold, NJ Posts: 78

tommyfeds Member Member Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunninOnEmpty Sounds to me like someone here doesn't own a Panerai. rude __________________ If you can't be good, be good at it tommyfeds View Public Profile Send a private message to tommyfeds Find all posts by tommyfeds Add tommyfeds to Your Contacts #92 Today, 11:30 AM

sanlover99 Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 272

Originally Posted by SeaVulture I can't believe I read this thread in its entirety.

I MUST be stupid to have endured all that just to make this point.

A watch is a watch.

If you like it, buy it.

If you don't, then don't.

Since the value of an object is only worth what a person is willing to spend, AT THAT MOMENT, get while the gettin's good.

But, PLEASE, don't hammer the crap out of the goodness that we find in what others like to buy.

I for one, don't really care if it's JUST a story. In fact, I lean in the direction that it is true, as I can see this from the Russian design origins, the fact that Zlatoust moved their factory from St. Petersburg during the NAZI invasion of Russia, and the manufacturer's who've made the designs since that time.

The whole Witch Hunt theme, here is a bit juvenile, and befitting of folks who troll on other forums. if you don't have anything useful to add to this thread other than bashing people, stay out. no one cares that you don't care. sanlover99 View Public Profile Send a private message to sanlover99 Find all posts by sanlover99 Add sanlover99 to Your Contacts #93 Today, 12:34 PM

407guy Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: 407 area code Posts: 326

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit FYI as Eyal stated on air, it is a non functioning watch.

Maybe he should send it to CS at Invicta? *duck*

(Posted in good fun.)

Seriously, interesting topic and discussion but as Jim said, it might be time to move on (in so

many words).

Peace.