)
OK guys...this is going to be a long post as I try to explain what has happened and my thoughts on everything. I would ask you to with hold judgement or opinions until you get through everything. So..as you may or may not know, I posted a global announcement earlier today to let everyone know that they need to comb through their private messages and get rid of anything they don't need anymore or anything that they would prefer not have the possibility of being read. The reason for this was because we have tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of private messages being kept on the system. I need to start doing some maintenance on that database to get it ready to export over to the new software. As this fired up, it processes messages in the order of last in, first out...the same way you see PMs in your inbox. I don't know if you guys have taken notice of the PMs in the Admin Control Panel, but there are two messages for each one created. One for the person that wrote it, one for the person that it was sent to. Part of the maintenance being done is an attempt to match up all of the messages and then prcess the orphans to determine if they should be kept, deleted or otherwise processed. Immediately after starting the process, numerous PMs kicked out. A couple were from ******* to Greg (nhwoods). I don't know who initiated contact with who as theere were apparently a series of messages. I am only assuming based on how it was written as I did not progress off of the messages that kicked out as exceptions as a part of the maintenance process. Long story short, what I say was ******* telling Greg how wrong "we" are for not making Invicta get him his prize watch. He then went on to tell Greg how he felt that the "we" were getting to coozy with Invicta and were doing nothing more than hyping them and kissing the a$$ of Invicta and Eyal and squashing free speech in addition to being "ignored" by me and Jim. That was all in one message. The second message dealt with his response to Greg apparently telling him (*******) that he (Greg) was considering posting on the forum that he has not gotten his prize yet and hoping that stirring up a bunch of $hit would would force us and/or Invicta to get him his prize. I'll just be blunt here. ******* needs to go. Whether we give him the opportunity to resign or we just remove him from being a moderator, I don't care. But, as far as I am concerned, he needs to go and I don't want him on the admin team. Here is my thinking... I have personally told all of the moderators over the phone and in writing that the one thing they could count on from the ownership to is to "back their play" in public or when it comes to the members. After seeing how many members of the mod and admin team at BDWF were treated, I wanted to make sure that all of them could expect that we would never call them out in public. I have told them that they could figure out the absolute worst way to handle any situation on the forum and that when it came to the membership that we would back them and deal with the issue behind the scenes where the rest of the membership cannot see. With that in mind, I expect no less from the moderators in regards to us and the site as a whole. ******* has every right in the world to think whatever he would like to in regards to
us as the ownership team, Invicta, Eyal, our relationship with Invicta and Eyal (or any other vendor), the decisions we make and/or how "free speech" is effected on the forum. What he does not have the right to do is go to a member and trash us, our site and our decisions on how this forum should be run. Doing the moderator work for free or not, if we are going to be loyal to our team then I expect no less than the same from them. If we are not going to trash them to the membership, then I expect them not to trash us to the membership. I would also expect that if they are made aware by a member of actions that they are thinking of taking that are going to do nothing but create strife and other bull$hot on the forum...they should say something to us in regards to it so we can deal with it. Considering I have not heard anything at all from anyone about Greg's potential plans, I can only assume that he didn't go to any of you about it. But besides that...I go back to the original point. Outside of asking a moderator to violate their own morals or ethics, we (us personally and the site in general) deserve some loyalty from them. They don't have to agree with the decisions we make, they just have to move forward with them. And if they feel that they cannot move forward with them, they need to resign. I have looked at this from every angle that I can and have been very objective in how I was looking at the situation. The only thing that I can come up with is that he needs to go. I am sorry...I just cannot tolerate having one of our mods trash us to a member like this. If any of you guys want to explain to me how I am wrong, I am certainly willing to listen to what you have to say. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out how I want someone who is going to trash me personally to other members to be on my team. Thanks for reading this "book" of mine. But I felt too much detail was better than not enough. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin
#2 03-18-2009, 08:58 AM Join Date: Feb 2008
jskelton
Posts: 5,229
WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
I'll keep it short, and simple. I see both sides. I am greatly bothered that BOTH of them said the things that you posted. BUT Had you not needed to do maintenance, the PM's would not have been read. In that case, we would not know what was said. And ******* has been doing a fine job otherwise. So.... do you smack your wife because you read her diary and saw she fantasized about George Clooney the last time you had sex, or just realize that her private thoughts are not something you should worry about if they are not voiced, or acted upon? I say let it go until ******* actually does something wrong. What you say to someone else in private (which maybe was only said to quell the irritated other party) should be left in private and not held against you if you have not actually done something wrong. __________________
jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage!
Find all posts by jskelton #3 03-18-2009, 05:15 PM Join Date: Feb 2008
NAYTH
Posts: 2,043
WatchGeeks Owner Super Geek
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
I have to fall on Jim's logic, despite being extremely upset with *******'s actions. I DO know he has been extremely upset with the prize for Nhwoods, and feels his requests are being ignored with PMs going unanswered. Remember this is the guy that wanted to resign when I was "upside down" in Florida because I didn't call him back quickly enough. Anyway, here is the bright side. ******* called me two days ago and said he wanted to resign as a Mod, for all the reasons listed above. I told him to just back off the Moderator's duties for awhile and I would discuss it with my partners. This is an easy out if we want to take it. Nevertheless, I think it may be time for a three-way call. I know Jim is still recovering from the 11 days of hell so we can schedule it later. Let me know. Bruce __________________ Time is too precious to mark its passage on cheap watches!
NAYTH View Public Profile Send a private message to NAYTH Find all posts by NAYTH #4
03-18-2009, 05:20 PM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Bruce: I can understand that ******* was upset over the deal with Greg. Hell, I was...it does our reputation and image no good to be in a situation like that. However, ******* cannot say that I was ignoring him. He was specifically told by me to remove himself from the situation as I was taking over the prizes aspect for both HSOW and WGOM from Jim and that I would be contacting Greg directly...which I did. When ******* asked me about it via PMs, I gave him an update. I don't know what more he wanted me to do. Jim: I understand your logic. However, this is not how we have handled situations like this in the past. When we "accidentally" found out that Paul Buddish had violated our trust with that idiot from NY that was banned, he was removed as an admin and from the site. That unfortunately cost Bruce a very long time friendship with Paul and his wife. I am just saying that we should be consistent in how we handle things. To me, a violation of trust is a violation of trust. If you guys want to talk about it, that is fine with me. Just let me know when. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile
Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin #5 03-18-2009, 05:44 PM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Just as an FYI, PMs were sent out to the following folks letting them know one or more PMs that they sent or received was read by me: BigJoe CharlieB qwikfix bdgrewe74 Red Ryder timetravler FlyBack (that troublemaker) ******* nhwoods In case any of them happen to contact one of you, I just wanted to let you all know. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin
Find all posts by meijin #6 03-18-2009, 07:36 PM Join Date: Feb 2008
jskelton
Posts: 5,229
WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Quote:
Originally Posted by meijin";p=&quot I understand your logic. However, this is not how we have handled situations like this in the past. When we "accidentally" found out that Paul Buddish had violated our trust with that idiot from NY that was banned, he was removed as an admin and from the site. That unfortunately cost Bruce a very long time friendship with Paul and his wife. I am just saying that we should be consistent in how we handle things. To me, a violation of trust is a violation of trust. If you guys want to talk about it, that is fine with me. Just let me know when. Yes but... I was not involved in that, so I'm not actually doing a flip-flop here. If ******* wants to step down, then this is a non-issue. Grant him his wish. In the nicest possible way. No need to bring any of this up. __________________
jskelton View Public Profile Send a private message to jskelton Visit jskelton's homepage! Find all posts by jskelton #7 03-18-2009, 08:04 PM Join Date: Feb 2008
NAYTH
Posts: 2,043
WatchGeeks Owner Super Geek
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Michael: I agree that ******* was way out of bounds, and feel that accepting his resignation may be the best way out for all of us. He can remain an active Member and not let his obviously immature emotions get ahead of good judgment. Truthfully, with the pending return to Florida I don't feel like losing another friendship, albeit not nearly as close as Paul and Ellen were. Jim makes a good point as he was not involved. Still, we must continue to accept the fact that this Forum has become a much larger and more involved "entity" than any of us ever imagined. It has to be treated as such. Once again, I will suggest a three-way maybe over the weekend. My trip to Florida has been postponed until April 8th or so. Bruce __________________ Time is too precious to mark its passage on cheap watches!
NAYTH View Public Profile Send a private message to NAYTH
Find all posts by NAYTH #8 03-18-2009, 08:09 PM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
I always enjoy a 3-way over the weekends! LOL! That is fine...if he wants to resign, then he probably should considering the feelings and thoughts that he has expressed. I obviously have no problems with him retaining membership. The only caveat I would add to that is that at some point someone should remind him that we expect that anything said in the mod lounge that he is aware of or part of should stay in confidence and that even though he may no longer be a moderator, we expect that information to stay confidential in nature. Know what I mean? __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin #9 03-18-2009, 08:22 PM
Join Date: Feb 2008
NAYTH
Posts: 2,043
WatchGeeks Owner Super Geek
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
That is agreed. I will talk to him in the next few days and settle this all. BTW, three-way PHONE CALL, not group sex!!!!! We are Watchgeek he-men here!!! You are a sick puppy Michael! Bruce __________________ Time is too precious to mark its passage on cheap watches!
NAYTH View Public Profile Send a private message to NAYTH Find all posts by NAYTH #10 03-18-2009, 08:24 PM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Quote:
You are a sick puppy Michael!
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Yeah? And? Your point is what? LOL! __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin #11 03-19-2009, 01:32 AM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
Just as an update.... I sent ******* a PM as I did everyone else letting him know that a couple of PMs were seen by me. He took that opportunity to express to me his dissatisfaction in how the whole deal with Greg was handled and then went on to explain to me how hurt he was that Jim ignored him and never responded to him about it and how poor that was for an owner of the forum to conduct himself. I wrote him back a polite yet terse and to the point PM that he was told on more than one occasion to remove himself from the situation and that I was now the person responsible for the prizes here and not Jim. I also went on to inform him that Jim is just a tad bit busy and
that his (*******'s) continued bitching about the situation without being able to offer a potential solution offered nothing to the situation other than making it essentially worse. So, needless to say, Jim hurt his feelings and I am sure I have now just added to that. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin #12 03-19-2009, 01:34 AM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
BTW...I never brought up the contents of his PMs with Greg. Had I done that I would be willing to bet a grand at 5:1 that he would be resigning tonight. __________________ Michael
Argument is meant to reveal the truth, not to create it. ~ Edward de Bono
meijin View Public Profile Send a private message to meijin Find all posts by meijin #13 03-19-2009, 01:51 AM
meijin WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,201
Re: Concerning ******* (*******)
BTW again...for those that might have missed it, Greg posted a message in the "Look What I Got" section about receiving his prize watch. Here is the first line of his message... "Well it finally arrived after a really long wait and lot of work by the by ******* (*******)Thanks *******." At least I got a good laugh tonight! __________________ Michael