rnieves860860 Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2009 Location: Erie, PA Posts: 292 Real Name: Rick (not Elvis...;)
oh boy.....sparks are going to fly....boo yah... what a sales pitch....makes you wonder...?????????????????? rnieves860860 #752 09-08-2010, 09:17 AM BIGMIKE52 Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 126
Why doesnt jim skelton or eyal post a reply to all this anti-invicta talk. BIGMIKE52 View Public Profile Send a private message to BIGMIKE52 Find all posts by BIGMIKE52 Add BIGMIKE52 to Your Contacts #753 09-08-2010, 09:30 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 318 TeamInvicta WatchGeeks VIP Senior Geek
After speaking extensively with numerous experts, there seems to be confusion between the
term Sandstone as used in jewelry and sandstone the raw dessert like sand material found in nature. What we are using is absolutely sandstone as known in the jewelry world and is considered a gemstone. That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials. Many stones are modified, bonded, compressed, heated, dyed, bombarded, etc., for use in jewelry. The main reason being one of hardness, since in order to cut semiprecious stones for jewelry or dials you need a minimum hardness of 5-6. Some stones are rare and turned to dust and then compressed with natural, others have a tradition of going by the wrong gemological name such as black onyx which is also dyed black Agatha. No one sells Ruby as a chemical compound (mineral) and tell you its pure aluminum oxide. No one sells Lapis as a Rock, or a diamond as carbon. These stones have natural properties, not manmade, but have been processed to achieve the hardness required and/or change or enhance their look. We stand by our sandstone, a stone from natural elements, processed to achieve 5-6 hardness and it is not to be compared with raw sandstone which is too porous and soft for use in jewelry A gemologist explained it as follow: Sandstone in the Jewelry industry is a sedimentary rock composed of tiny grains of quartz or feldspar. It can be any color, but is most commonly tan, brown, yellow, red, grey or white. The color is usually dependent on the region in which the stone was found. Sandstones are formed by cemented grains of small fragments of pre-existing rock or crystals and are usually bound together by calcite, clays or silica. The sedimentation process occurs when sand grains are bounced along the bottom of a body of water or ground surface, resulting in a pressure compacted mixture. Because sandstone widely varies in its creation, its hardness widely varies as well. I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion. If anything this has been very educational – I am sure there is no other brand out there that gets so personal and detailed about a component of a watch… I’m happy to do it – if this is not commitment, I don’t know what is. TeamInvicta View Public Profile Send a private message to TeamInvicta Find all posts by TeamInvicta Add TeamInvicta to Your Contacts #754 09-08-2010, 09:49 AM
Arcom8065 Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 311 Real Name: Kai
Not that this argument was ever going to stop me from buying an Invicta from a sandstone dial. But I find it outstanding that an executive would personally address and explain issues like this. If anything, in reality there are a plethora of things and situations which are much more complex than one would think initially. Nonetheless, I'm grateful that Eyal is willing to lend an ear to the customer base. It's appreciated Eyal. __________________ "I pretend to leave and then......SURPRISE ATTACK!!!!" Arcom8065 View Public Profile Send a private message to Arcom8065 Find all posts by Arcom8065 Add Arcom8065 to Your Contacts #755 09-08-2010, 09:50 AM
bat Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 584 Real Name: Fred C
Makes sense to me, although unlike many others that have posted here I really could care less. I buy what I like because I like it, not because of what it is made from. It is a shame this will not satisfy all but it is what it is and you have answered the question they have been waiting for. Thank You, now maybe they can move on to something different. bat View Public Profile Send a private message to bat Send email to bat Find all posts by bat Add bat to Your Contacts #756 09-08-2010, 09:59 AM Mike_NavyNuke Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Norfolk VA
Super Geek
Posts: 1,332 Real Name: Mike
Quote: Originally Posted by TeamInvicta After speaking extensively with numerous experts, there seems to be confusion between the term Sandstone as used in jewelry and sandstone the raw dessert like sand material found in nature. What we are using is absolutely sandstone as known in the jewelry world and is considered a gemstone. That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials. Many stones are modified, bonded, compressed, heated, dyed, bombarded, etc., for use in jewelry. The main reason being one of hardness, since in order to cut semiprecious stones for jewelry or dials you need a minimum hardness of 5-6. Some stones are rare and turned to dust and then compressed with natural, others have a tradition of going by the wrong gemological name such as black onyx which is also dyed black Agatha. No one sells Ruby as a chemical compound (mineral) and tell you its pure aluminum oxide. No one sells Lapis as a Rock, or a diamond as carbon. These stones have natural properties, not manmade, but have been processed to achieve the hardness required and/or change or enhance their look. We stand by our sandstone, a stone from natural elements, processed to achieve 5-6 hardness and it is not to be compared with raw sandstone which is too porous and soft for use in jewelry A gemologist explained it as follow: Sandstone in the Jewelry industry is a sedimentary rock composed of tiny grains of quartz or feldspar. It can be any color, but is most commonly tan, brown, yellow, red, grey or white. The color is usually dependent on the region in which the stone was found. Sandstones are formed by cemented grains of small fragments of pre-existing rock or crystals and are usually bound together by calcite, clays or silica. The sedimentation process occurs when sand grains are bounced along the bottom of a body of water or ground surface, resulting in a pressure compacted mixture. Because sandstone widely varies in its creation, its hardness widely varies as well. I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion. If anything this has been very educational – I am sure there is no other brand out there that gets so personal and detailed about a component of a watch… I’m happy to do it – if this is not commitment, I don’t know what is. Thanks again Eyal for going above and beyond what most people would! __________________
Mike_NavyNuke View Public Profile Send a private message to Mike_NavyNuke Find all posts by Mike_NavyNuke Add Mike_NavyNuke to Your Contacts #757 09-08-2010, 10:16 AM tampa8 Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa FLorida & Storrs Ct Posts: 1,295
I think Eyal's answer hits upon something frankly I had not considered. What is considered "Sandstone" in the business. Is what was used in these watches commonly used and referred to as "sandstone?" Even taking what was said on air that it was real, in the context of what is commonly used perhaps it is "real." I find the TeamInvicta answer to sound very truthful and appreciated. And the fact that we even have a chance to get answers from the top of a company does not go unnoticed. __________________ You mean what time is it now? tampa8 View Public Profile Send a private message to tampa8 Find all posts by tampa8 Add tampa8 to Your Contacts
#758 09-08-2010, 10:18 AM
jade330i Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 760 Real Name: James
Eyal, thank you for your time in addressing this. It goes along way with alot of us. __________________
More government is not the cure for the defect of less personal responsibility, it's an enabler; if people aren't accountable for their own actions then who is?" jade330i View Public Profile Send a private message to jade330i Send email to jade330i Find all posts by jade330i Add jade330i to Your Contacts #759 09-08-2010, 10:19 AM qwikfix Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 710 Real Name: John
Thanks Eyal for confirming that your dials are man made and that they are not now nor have they ever been natural sandstone as advertised. qwikfix View Public Profile Send a private message to qwikfix
Find all posts by qwikfix Add qwikfix to Your Contacts #760 09-08-2010, 10:20 AM
bichondaddy1057 Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 2,420 Real Name: Larry
Thank goodness....now maybe this subject will be put to rest!!! __________________
Larry in Spring, Tx
bichondaddy1057 View Public Profile Send a private message to bichondaddy1057 Send email to bichondaddy1057 Find all posts by bichondaddy1057 Add bichondaddy1057 to Your Contacts #761 09-08-2010, 10:23 AM new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 192
Quote: Originally Posted by qwikfix Thanks Eyal for confirming that your dials are man made and that they are not now nor have they ever been natural sandstone as advertised. Yes, thank you for looking into this. Sandstone in Jewelry is in fact goldstone, as Team Invicta stated in the post " That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry� or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials." new2watches View Public Profile Send a private message to new2watches Find all posts by new2watches Add new2watches to Your Contacts #762 09-08-2010, 10:24 AM DavidFDiamond Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Sunny San Diego Posts: 341 Real Name: David
So, after 750 post's we are now DONE right? Please? Sorry, just don't think I can take anymore, and I'm pretty sure the horse is dead! __________________
DavidFDiamond View Public Profile Send a private message to DavidFDiamond Send email to DavidFDiamond Find all posts by DavidFDiamond Add DavidFDiamond to Your Contacts #763 09-08-2010, 10:25 AM Majorp2524 Junior Member New Geek
Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 14
Thanks Eyal. I regret that these things keep popping up and put a drain on your time. Some people love to cry conspiricy!! It is my opinion they should be ashamed of themselves, but they won't be. It's who they are. They accuse you on the front page and apologoze on the back page or not at all. In any event they will soon find another "cause" to fight about. P.S. Are you sure Invicta actually uses 316 stainless. The jewler at Kmart said mine looked more like 313 or maybe even 312 stainless. Sorry I could not resist. :-) Majorp2524 View Public Profile Send a private message to Majorp2524 Find all posts by Majorp2524 Add Majorp2524 to Your Contacts #764 09-08-2010, 10:25 AM
watchluv Senior Member Master WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,604
I'll be the first to say that Eyal may be winning me back as a customer. I thank you for the response in keeping your customers up to date with this process of the sandstone dial. Keep on improving the C/S for Invicta. Again thanks for the response Eyal. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #765 09-08-2010, 10:27 AM LDouglasLJr Senior Member Veteran Geek
Join Date: May 2008 Location: SW, PA Posts: 821 Real Name: Doug
This sounds good to me. It wouldn't have stopped me from buying one in the first place as I love the looks of it. It could be one made by Invicta or someone else, I don't care as I love the look. Still nice to hear from Team Invicta about this and the time they spent in finding the answer and getting to us. And as it said, "I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion.". LDouglasLJr View Public Profile Send a private message to LDouglasLJr Find all posts by LDouglasLJr Add LDouglasLJr to Your Contacts #766 09-08-2010, 10:30 AM morrison2951
Join Date: Nov 2008
Senior Member Super Geek
Location: F-V, NC Posts: 1,004 Real Name: Scott
Told you so! Much ado about nothing... And I too am very impressed with Eyal's response and that he took the time to investigate this as thoroughly as he did. morrison2951 View Public Profile Send a private message to morrison2951 Find all posts by morrison2951 Add morrison2951 to Your Contacts #767 09-08-2010, 10:42 AM Taxg8r00 Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 159 Real Name: Pierre
Color me as impressed. Invicta has had some issues of late, but this is one that has in my humble opinion been resolved in their favor. Taxg8r00 View Public Profile Send a private message to Taxg8r00 Send email to Taxg8r00 Find all posts by Taxg8r00 Add Taxg8r00 to Your Contacts #768 09-08-2010, 10:44 AM steven Member Member Geek
Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 47
Thanks for looking into this and answering with a clear and understandable explanation. It is way beyond anything I have ever heard of a company like Invicta answering for its customers.
steven View Public Profile Send a private message to steven Send email to steven Find all posts by steven Add steven to Your Contacts #769 09-08-2010, 10:45 AM Mike_NavyNuke Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Norfolk VA Posts: 1,332 Real Name: Mike
Quote: Originally Posted by new2watches Yes, thank you for looking into this. Sandstone in Jewelry is in fact goldstone, as Team Invicta stated in the post " That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry� or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials."
Sorry buddy, that was never stated in the post once. Seems like you are making connections that you want to hear. __________________
Mike_NavyNuke View Public Profile
Send a private message to Mike_NavyNuke Find all posts by Mike_NavyNuke Add Mike_NavyNuke to Your Contacts #770 09-08-2010, 10:50 AM Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: south philly Posts: 21 Real Name: michael martino(mikey moose)
moose73 Junior Member New Geek
like i said,dont jump to conclusions because things arent as fraudulent and shady as alot of people thought.in my eyes, eyal deserves the utmost respect from all watch lovers everywhere.there's not alot,if any company owners that would take time out of there busy schedule to address an issue some of us may have.his passion is prevalant in every single post he answers .eyal,keep em' coming,YOU DA MAN!!! moose73 View Public Profile Send a private message to moose73 Find all posts by moose73 Add moose73 to Your Contacts #771 09-08-2010, 10:51 AM
CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,855 Real Name: Charlie
Quote: Originally Posted by TeamInvicta After speaking extensively with numerous experts, there seems to be confusion between the term Sandstone as used in jewelry and sandstone the raw dessert like sand material found in nature. What we are using is absolutely sandstone as known in the jewelry world and is
considered a gemstone. That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials. Many stones are modified, bonded, compressed, heated, dyed, bombarded, etc., for use in jewelry. The main reason being one of hardness, since in order to cut semiprecious stones for jewelry or dials you need a minimum hardness of 5-6. Some stones are rare and turned to dust and then compressed with natural, others have a tradition of going by the wrong gemological name such as black onyx which is also dyed black Agatha. No one sells Ruby as a chemical compound (mineral) and tell you its pure aluminum oxide. No one sells Lapis as a Rock, or a diamond as carbon. These stones have natural properties, not manmade, but have been processed to achieve the hardness required and/or change or enhance their look. We stand by our sandstone, a stone from natural elements, processed to achieve 5-6 hardness and it is not to be compared with raw sandstone which is too porous and soft for use in jewelry A gemologist explained it as follow: Sandstone in the Jewelry industry is a sedimentary rock composed of tiny grains of quartz or feldspar. It can be any color, but is most commonly tan, brown, yellow, red, grey or white. The color is usually dependent on the region in which the stone was found. Sandstones are formed by cemented grains of small fragments of pre-existing rock or crystals and are usually bound together by calcite, clays or silica. The sedimentation process occurs when sand grains are bounced along the bottom of a body of water or ground surface, resulting in a pressure compacted mixture. Because sandstone widely varies in its creation, its hardness widely varies as well. I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion. If anything this has been very educational – I am sure there is no other brand out there that gets so personal and detailed about a component of a watch… I’m happy to do it – if this is not commitment, I don’t know what is. IMO, this perfectly reasonable and logical explanation puts the matter to bed. __________________
CharlieB View Public Profile Send a private message to CharlieB Find all posts by CharlieB Add CharlieB to Your Contacts #772
09-08-2010, 10:52 AM
leeherman Member Member Geek
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 97 Real Name: Lee Herman
I've been following this thread from the start and couldn't quite understand the controversy over the source of a non-precious stone, but I'm glad to see Eyal has clarified things. I *still* intend to get an Invicta watch with a Sandstone dial because I like the way it looks. Maybe Eyal can also confirm that the strap on the SAN III/Dragon is *genuine* polyurethane?
LH __________________
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#773 09-08-2010, 10:54 AM
toyaddict007 Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: 'Da Region-NW Indiana Posts: 1,590
I feel like I've been watching Family Feud! GR8 answer Eyal! GR8 answer! And the survey says...Sandstone! Now I want a sandstone dial watch! With a hardness of 6.5, Bruce
__________________ A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse...
This is how I roll...in my own mind... toyaddict007 View Public Profile Send a private message to toyaddict007 Send email to toyaddict007 Find all posts by toyaddict007 Add toyaddict007 to Your Contacts #774 09-08-2010, 11:05 AM new2watches Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 192
Quote: Originally Posted by Mike_NavyNuke
Sorry buddy, that was never stated in the post once. Seems like you are making connections that you want to hear. Quote: Originally Posted by new2watches Yes, thank you for looking into this. Sandstone in Jewelry is in fact goldstone, as Team Invicta stated in the post " That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials." OK - let me add correct punctuation. Sandstone in Jewelery is in fact goldstone. (Talk to any competent jeweler and they will verify this fact.)
Now as to what was in Team Invicta's post As Team Invicta stated in the post " That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials."
I'm not quite sure what I am "hearing" that was not stated by TI, the "connection" is, and I'll quote it again for you; " That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials." This "material" in the "broad selection of jewelry" is goldstone; no matter how you slice it, cut it or polish it.
new2watches
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nycruza Senior Member Super Geek
Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,552 Real Name: A.J.
Thanks Eyal for what I consider a speedy answer to the question.
Regrettably, within a month or two another TROLL from ******* will come on here and drop another unsubstantiated bomb. AJ __________________
SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon
kenshabby Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 363 Real Name: Trae
Quote: Originally Posted by TeamInvicta After speaking extensively with numerous experts, there seems to be confusion between the term Sandstone as used in jewelry and sandstone the raw dessert like sand material found in nature. What we are using is absolutely sandstone as known in the jewelry world and is considered a gemstone. That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry” or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials. Many stones are modified, bonded, compressed, heated, dyed, bombarded, etc., for use in jewelry. The main reason being one of hardness, since in order to cut semiprecious stones for jewelry or dials you need a minimum hardness of 5-6. Some stones are rare and turned to dust and then compressed with natural, others have a tradition of going by the wrong gemological name such as black onyx which is also dyed black Agatha. No one sells Ruby as a chemical compound (mineral) and tell you its pure aluminum oxide. No one sells Lapis as a Rock, or a diamond as carbon. These stones have natural properties, not manmade, but have been processed to achieve the hardness required and/or change or enhance their look. We stand by our sandstone, a stone from natural elements, processed to achieve 5-6 hardness and it is not to be compared with raw sandstone which is too porous and soft for use in jewelry A gemologist explained it as follow: Sandstone in the Jewelry industry is a sedimentary rock composed of tiny grains of quartz or feldspar. It can be any color, but is most commonly tan, brown, yellow, red, grey or white. The color is usually dependent on the region in which the stone was found. Sandstones are formed by cemented grains of small fragments of preexisting rock or crystals and are usually bound together by calcite, clays or silica. The sedimentation process occurs when sand grains are bounced along the bottom of a body of water or ground surface, resulting in a pressure compacted mixture. Because sandstone widely varies in its creation, its hardness widely varies as well. I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion. If anything this has been very educational – I am sure there is no other brand out there that gets so personal and detailed about a component of a watch… I’m happy to do it – if this is not commitment, I don’t know what is. BRAVO! Thanks Team Invicta and Eyal, good information... kenshabby View Public Profile Send a private message to kenshabby
Find all posts by kenshabby Add kenshabby to Your Contacts #777 09-08-2010, 11:17 AM
Woodster Senior Member Senior Geek
Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Jim Thorpe Pa. Posts: 255 Real Name: Woody
Quote: Originally Posted by qwikfix Thanks Eyal for confirming that your dials are man made and that they are not now nor have they ever been natural sandstone as advertised. And thank you John for bringing this to our attention so we can be better informed on what we are actually buying. I do however own an Invicta sandstone watch and it is one of my favorites. I like the look and would have bought it no matter how it was made or what it was made of. Woodster View Public Profile Send a private message to Woodster Send email to Woodster Find all posts by Woodster Add Woodster to Your Contacts #778 09-08-2010, 01:00 PM
GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek
I believe we have had an answer... This one is closed!
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,644
__________________
"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy