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Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

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SNBC Admits Invicta Sandstone Dials Contain Goldstone

Was watching Jill and Kendy present the Invicta Classique Quartz Sandstone Dial watch (J179021) this morning. These dials have been called raw sandstone, genuine sandstone, sandstone and now sandstone material, but never Goldstone or the proper technical term aventurine glass.

When reading the SNBC Sandstone description for this watch (link below) http://www.shopnbc.com/Invicta_Men_s...aspx?storeid=1 I was surprised to read the following. Note the final sentence: "About Sandstone Precisely as the name implies, sandstone is created from sand. Sandstone rock is forged from little grains derived from feldspar and quartz. It sets in many places as it really just needs water to form.

Varying in color from one area to another, it is an easy rock to split and carve. This quality makes it popular in the construction of pillars, fountains, fireplaces and as shown here, even timepieces. This sandstone is also enhanced with goldstone for a lustrous effect."

I'm happy to see that SNBC is admitting the dials are Goldstone. However, until it's mentioned on air that the dials are Goldstone and man-made, I don't believe the customer is getting a factual representation of what the dials are truly made of.

P.S. Kendy mentioned the star-like sparkle of the dial was due to feldspar, but most likely is due to copper. When copper is ed to molten glass when making Goldstone, the copper crystallizes and gives you that star-like sparkle. __________________

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timeman #2 11-13-2010, 08:28 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Later in the show Kendy mentioned the dial was genuine sandstone, a term that was used when these dials were first presented. I'm sure she wasn't intentionally misrepresenting the watch, but if you're not 100% sure what you are saying, statements like this shouldn't be made. Jill knows the background of these dials and should inform Kendy of this. __________________

timeman

timeman timeman timeman

#3 11-13-2010, 08:49 AM Join Date: Jan 2010 GunnyP Location: Sharpsburg, GA Senior Member Posts: 154 Senior Geek Real Name: Keith Porter

I have found that many show hosts (not just SNBC) stumble when speaking about technical specs. For example, listen to hosts speak about computers. It is easy to detect when a host is knowledgeable about the personal computer or "hi-tech" electronics. They interchange terms when the terms are not synonymous.

GunnyP

GunnyP GunnyP GunnyP #4 11-13-2010, 08:56 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 JIMZ Location: Boston Mass Senior Member Posts: 3,646 Master WatchGeek Real Name: Jim

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman Later in the show Kendy mentioned the dial was genuine sandstone, a term that was used when these dials were first presented. I'm sure she wasn't intentionally misrepresenting the watch, but if you're not 100% sure what you are saying, statements like this shouldn't be made. Jill knows the background of these dials and should inform Kendy of this.

I agree, but the RD looks so good.

__________________

JIMZ

JIMZ JIMZ JIMZ #5 11-13-2010, 08:58 AM Join Date: Nov 2009 fischer7304 Location: Near Seattle, Wa. Member Posts: 57 Member Geek Real Name: Joe What the consumer does not know helps the company

Like the "swiss made" label, maybe it is genuine 51% sandstone

fischer7304

fischer7304 fischer7304 fischer7304 #6 11-13-2010, 09:01 AM watchwitch

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The important thing is to know what you are paying for. After that, it's your decision. Unfortunately it's hard to get complete and accurate info on many things. We get a lot more details from shopnbc and some of the watch web sites that we would get in most stores. But as watchgeeks, we still want more details and the complete truth. This all matters to many of us.

watchwitch

watchwitch watchwitch watchwitch #7 11-13-2010, 09:02 AM

Join Date: May 2008 doublel Location: Long Island, New York Senior Member Posts: 4,061 Master WatchGeek Real Name: Larry

Quote: Originally Posted by fischer7304 Like the "swiss made" label, maybe it is genuine 51% sandstone

__________________ Larry

Live Long and Prosper

doublel

doublel doublel doublel doublel #8 11-13-2010, 09:08 AM

Join Date: Nov 2009 fwendell Location: Denver, Colorado Senior Member Posts: 402 Senior Geek Real Name: N/A

snbc has announced numerous times that they enhance their gem stones so it should be no surprise that sandstone is also enhanced. Does this really hurt the looks or value?

fwendell

fwendell fwendell fwendell #9 11-13-2010, 09:09 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 JIMZ Location: Boston Mass Senior Member Posts: 3,646 Master WatchGeek Real Name: Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchwitch The important thing is to know what you are paying for. After that, it's your decision. Unfortunately it's hard to get complete and accurate info on many things. We get a lot more details from shopnbc and some of the watch web sites that we would get in most stores. But as watchgeeks, we still want more details and the complete truth. This all matters to many of us.

Well stated and true. __________________

JIMZ

JIMZ JIMZ JIMZ #10 11-13-2010, 09:11 AM

Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by watchwitch The important thing is to know what you are paying for. After that, it's your decision. Unfortunately it's hard to get complete and accurate info on many things. We get a lot more details from shopnbc and some of the watch web sites that we would get in most stores. But as watchgeeks, we still want more details and the complete truth. This all matters to many of us.

I agree. I think the Goldstone dial looks great, but just be upfront with what the dials are made with. Be truthful (no marketing spin) in what you are selling, and let the customer determine if he wants it or not. __________________

timeman

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timeman #11 11-13-2010, 09:42 AM Join Date: Jan 2010 desert rex

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All do respect Jerry, but now we're kicking around a bucket of glue for a $59.00 watch.I spent the same money last night at Walmart for a pair of boots and I don't need a full disclosure of the origin and or materials used. Not at $58.99 I don't. All this thread will do is bring out the ones who carry a soap box around with them. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

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desert rex desert rex desert rex #12 11-13-2010, 09:45 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 samsonswatch

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I have three sandstone watches or whatever you want to call them which get me more reactions from strangers and people at work them almost any other watch I own. I have over 120 watches now and ware them as art with style. For what little I paid for the sandstone watches I get the look that I was looking for. __________________

Collecting Watches Until We Meet The True Time Keeper...

samsonswatch

samsonswatch samsonswatch samsonswatch #13 11-13-2010, 09:55 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex All do respect Jerry, but now we're kicking around a bucket of glue for a $59.00 watch.I spent the same money last night at Walmart for a pair of boots and I don't need a full disclosure of the origin and or materials used. Not at $58.99 I don't. All this thread will do is bring out the ones who carry a soap box around with them.

The same dials were marketed and sold in high end Invicta watches, selling in the $600 to $700 range. I don't care if it's a $58 or $700 watch, I just want to know exactly what I'm buying. __________________

timeman

timeman timeman timeman #14 11-13-2010, 10:23 AM Join Date: Jan 2010 desert rex

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Quote: Originally Posted by timeman The same dials were marketed and sold in high end Invicta watches, selling in the $600 to $700 range.

I don't care if it's a $58 or $700 watch, I just want to know exactly what I'm buying.

I'm pretty confident that Invicta is capable of producing two very similar looking dials at different levels of quality to be used in separate model watch's at different price points altogether.At $59.00 I would think most folks would not be expecting exotic materials or genuine gem stones at this price point. For the ones that might,I have no words. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

desert rex

desert rex desert rex desert rex #15 11-13-2010, 10:36 AM Join Date: Jul 2009 rickm Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Senior Member Posts: 509 Veteran Geek Real Name: Rick

I thik I have found a link that will answere the question of what is used on watch dials. I had tried to cut sandstone into thin sheets and polish them only to have them crumble. The following link makes sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldstone_(gemstone)

rickm

rickm rickm rickm #16 11-13-2010, 10:44 AM Red Ryder

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I recently purchased A goldtone Invicta sandstone dial and it is deep blue ( like a night sky) with bits of sparkle). It is by no means sandstone but it is pretty. __________________ RUTHIE

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Red Ryder Red Ryder #17 11-13-2010, 10:47 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 alwaystenpastten

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The day that sandstone receives the status of "gemstone" is the day that I move to Utah to scoop up my easy fortune. __________________ Keep your crowns screwed down, my friends.

alwaystenpastten

alwaystenpastten

alwaystenpastten alwaystenpastten #18 11-13-2010, 10:48 AM Join Date: Jul 2010 Panchester Location: Chicago area Senior Member Posts: 107 Senior Geek Real Name: Sasha Logan

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman The same dials were marketed and sold in high end Invicta watches, selling in the $600 to $700 range.

I don't care if it's a $58 or $700 watch, I just want to know exactly what I'm buying.

Well said !

Good luck with that task (knowing exactly what you are about to buy).

First of, we have that kind of "trend", if you will, in many industries today.

So many manufacturers do not disclose everything (for this or that reason).

Then we have companies which only try to present themselves as they are "manufacturers" but God forbid you ask them about their manufacturing ress. The minute you ask that, they are like a deer caught in the headlights, and by many you are labeled as "hater".

Today, in many different fields we are witnessing just that.

We have icons like Harley, loaded with parts from China, and blind sheep never question that. We are witnessing unbelievable marketing spins everywhere. Just few years ago that same Harley had a waiting lists for their new motorcycles, and at the same time their manufacturing facility in York, PA - never even contemplated introduction of the third shift. People are waiting for their bikes for months and they don't have the third shift ?

Goes to show you, how everything is gauged today.

What you are asking here is certain dose of MORALITY. And guess what ?

You are not going to get it. At least, not at so many places.

By the same talking so many of sites that sell watches don't even disclose what movement each watch has. Now, I am not some watch expert here, but one thing I may guess with my common sense movement in the watch is kind of important But, above all that, today we are witnessing purposeful MISLEADING of potential consumers - and that is PLAIN WRONG. Now is that misleading on on 59 bucks or on 59 K, the bottom line is that it's misleading and it is wrong.

That misleading may be on purpose and it may be just by error, but one thing is if you have only one example of it, and another if you have few of them.

We as consumers should be aware of them and only than we should make our educated decisions.

As for Invicta and Shop, my personal choice is either to believe them or not. I must take my hat off to Invicta for their design, quality and especially the price which comes with that quality. When it comes to Shop, I must take my hat off to these guys for giving us more info on the watches than anyone out there. Every now and than among that information may come something questionable, and for the most part I see the effort in clarifying that, so for that reason and reasons stated above, I am staying with them.

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Panchester Panchester Panchester #19 11-13-2010, 10:52 AM Join Date: Jun 2010 the B

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Oh well if we like it buy it ! If not well that is a deep subject. Very seldom do they disclose the truth about most of their products, and it could be due to the Host lack od knowledge. __________________

PEACE TO ALL

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the B the B the B #20 11-13-2010, 10:57 AM Join Date: Jan 2010 desert rex

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Quote: Originally Posted by alwaystenpastten The day that sandstone receives the status of "gemstone" is the day that I move to Utah to scoop up my easy fortune.

Gem stone was used as a blanket statement in general. Not to classify sandstone as such.But this is a perfect example where the obvious was called on by how it was worded. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

desert rex

desert rex desert rex desert rex #21 11-13-2010, 11:07 AM

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Quote: Originally Posted by alwaystenpastten The day that sandstone receives the status of "gemstone" is the day that I move to Utah to scoop up my easy fortune.

Goldstone is considered a man-made gemstone. __________________

timeman

timeman timeman timeman #22

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Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex Gem stone was used as a blanket statement in general. Not to classify sandstone as such.But this is a perfect example where the obvious was called on by how it was worded.

No worries Jeff, not trying to call you out or take issue with your terms. __________________ Keep your crowns screwed down, my friends.

alwaystenpastten

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alwaystenpastten alwaystenpastten #23 11-13-2010, 01:01 PM Join Date: Aug 2010 invictamatic Member

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Invicta came out with the COSC diver sandstone watch several years ago. They also priced the watch as if it had a meteorite dial (read same price).

Now we all know that pretty glass man made is not the same as billions of year old meteorite.

The Reserve Lupahs were also priced the same (sandstone or meteorite dial).

Tell me WHO made a killing by misrepresenting the dial components?

(Agreeing with Timeman)........... __________________ Collecting Value, One Invicta At A Time!

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invictamatic #24 11-13-2010, 01:53 PM bluloo

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Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex I'm pretty confident that Invicta is capable of producing two very similar looking dials at different levels of quality to be used in separate model watch's at different price points altogether.At $59.00 I would think most folks would not be expecting exotic materials or genuine gem stones at this price point. For the ones that might,I have no words.

That isn't the question/issue.

When a product's features are prominently advertised as a selling point, most people prefer the unvarnished truth, instead of a bunch of marketing language.

As always, it's best to become an educated consumer - and just about the worst place to drink at the "trough of knowledge", to that end, is the seller's advertising.

Consumers have a responsibility to perform due diligence as well.

bluloo

bluloo

bluloo bluloo #25 11-13-2010, 01:56 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 nycruza Location: Las Vegas Senior Member Posts: 1,652 Super Geek Real Name: A.J.

Unfortunately, human nature precludes using correct terms for accuracy and familiar terms for simplicity.

How many people ask for KETCHUP? Or when in an eatery, are asked "do want ketchup?

Well unless you are using or getting HEINZ, what you are using/getting is CATSUP! Ketchup is a BRAND name which is trademarked.

Same thing with KLEENEX, MASONITE, and a host of other trademarked items.

NOT saying it is right of SNBC or others, just saying how it is!

AJ __________________

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This is only one example of why I like this forum. Truth about what the consumer is really getting.

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11-13-2010, 02:05 PM daycoo2

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I agree with Jeff.By now most of us know all about this.I like the look of the dials,and for the price point,who cares,just put it to bed,it's a dead horse.

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daycoo2 daycoo2 daycoo2 #28 11-13-2010, 02:10 PM Join Date: Sep 2010 burritoman Member Member Geek

Quote:

Location: Chicago Posts: 91 Real Name: Mike Gonzalez

Originally Posted by nycruza Unfortunately, human nature precludes using correct terms for accuracy and familiar terms for simplicity.

How many people ask for KETCHUP? Or when in an eatery, are asked "do want ketchup?

Well unless you are using or getting HEINZ, what you are using/getting is CATSUP! Ketchup is a BRAND name which is trademarked.

Same thing with KLEENEX, MASONITE, and a host of other trademarked items.

NOT saying it is right of SNBC or others, just saying how it is!

AJ So you are saying that SandstoneŠ is really Invicta's copyrighted Goldstone, Like FlameFusionŠ is copyrighted Sapphire coated mineral crystal?

burritoman

burritoman burritoman burritoman #29 11-13-2010, 02:34 PM kuya

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Progress In Being Truthful

Intentional misrepresentation of a product is not only immoral, unethical, it is illegal.

Not to defend SNBC, but I think they rely on Invicta for the specifications and explanations of the products.

SNBC now knows the facts about the sandstone man made composition dials. It should assure all the hosts are aware of this and that they say it during presentations.

kuya

kuya kuya kuya #30 11-13-2010, 02:36 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 sundowner54 Location: salt lake city Senior Member Posts: 203 Senior Geek Real Name: Mark (Big MARK) correct

Quote: Originally Posted by burritoman So you are saying that SandstoneŠ is really Invicta's copyrighted Goldstone,

Like FlameFusionŠ is copyrighted Sapphire coated mineral crystal?

I am thinking that when Invicta bonds the goldstone at the molecular level-it magically becomes sandstone?

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sundowner54 sundowner54 sundowner54 #31 11-13-2010, 02:43 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 dean71

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SanIII on the rocks. Another idea for Invicta via nycruza!

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dean71 dean71 dean71 #32 11-13-2010, 02:57 PM

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Quote: Originally Posted by watchwitch The important thing is to know what you are paying for. After that, it's your decision. Unfortunately it's hard to get complete and accurate info on many things. We get a lot more details from shopnbc and some of the watch web sites that we would get in most stores. But as watchgeeks, we still want more details and the complete truth. This all matters to many of us.

I agree..... __________________ Peter Griffin: "No Lois, World War 5 is so intense it skips over the other 2" ~A Favorite Peter Griffin Moment~

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AZinNJ AZinNJ AZinNJ AZinNJ #33 11-13-2010, 03:00 PM Join Date: Sep 2009 Leed24 Location: Phoenix, AZ. Senior Member Posts: 1,267 Super Geek Real Name: Lee

Do we really have to go down this road again ? This was already played out a couple of months ago. Yes it is preferred that we are told the truth, we already discussed this in length over and over again. __________________

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Leed24 Leed24 Leed24 Leed24 #34 11-13-2010, 03:10 PM mosc

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I don't get this. Sandstone is probably the cheapest rock on planet Earth. Even limestone is rarer. Most of the world's deserts are sandstone. Why get upset about this? If the claim was genuine gold, or turquoise, or something, that maybe be an issue. But sandstone? It's like genuine dirt. If Invicta enhances this worthless material to look good, so much the better.

Sheeesh...

mosc

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mosc mosc #35 11-13-2010, 03:34 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

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Quote: Originally Posted by Leed24 Do we really have to go down this road again ? This was already played out a couple of months ago.

Yes it is preferred that we are told the truth, we already discussed this in length over and over again.

We are hopefully approaching the end of the trail. SNBC has admitted these dials contain Goldstone on their web site. I hope they will also mention this fact on air when these types of dials are presented.

Instead of calling them sandstone material dials, a more accurate description for example would be sandstone / goldstone dials. As long as it's mentioned the dial contains goldstone, will let the consumer know what he's actually buying. __________________

timeman

timeman timeman timeman #36 11-13-2010, 03:34 PM Join Date: Jan 2010 desert rex

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Quote: Originally Posted by Leed24 Do we really have to go down this road again ? This was already played out a couple of months ago.

Yes it is preferred that we are told the truth, we already discussed this in length over and over again.

Exactly my point.Leading favorable descriptions are used to describe most all products.I would dare say that the good majority of members here have at one time focused on and exaggerated a little on a key selling point on their resume. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

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desert rex desert rex desert rex #37 11-13-2010, 03:36 PM Join Date: Jan 2010

Quote:

desert rex

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Originally Posted by mosc I don't get this. Sandstone is probably the cheapest rock on planet Earth. Even limestone is rarer. Most of the world's deserts are sandstone. Why get upset about this? If the claim was genuine gold, or turquoise, or something, that maybe be an issue. But sandstone? It's like genuine dirt. If Invicta enhances this worthless material to look good, so much the better.

Sheeesh...

For some its the thrill of the crusade.That's all I can figure __________________

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desert rex desert rex desert rex #38 11-13-2010, 05:32 PM

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Man made sandstone dials.... I think that is easy to say on the air... __________________ Joe

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#39 11-13-2010, 05:50 PM Join Date: Apr 2009 curiousgeorge Location: Mpls Senior Member Posts: 2,831 Master WatchGeek Real Name: George

You were on this from the beginning. I'm glad they are properly representing it now. I just gave my dad a men's classique with that dial and you'd swear I gave him a gold bar he liked it so much. I have a couple and I like the look, now I like the way it's being sold as well.

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curiousgeorge curiousgeorge curiousgeorge #40 11-13-2010, 06:10 PM Join Date: Feb 2010 SeaVulture Location: San Antonio, Texas Senior Member Posts: 3,185 Master WatchGeek Real Name: William

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SeaVulture SeaVulture SeaVulture #41 11-13-2010, 06:25 PM

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Quote: Originally Posted by daycoo2 I agree with Jeff.By now most of us know all about this.I like the look of the dials,and for the price point,who cares,just put it to bed,it's a dead horse.

Most may know, First time for me hearing this. can't see how it is a dead horse. I can remember once someone sold me a table that they said was solid cherry and I bought it. It looked great but later found out the table was only veneer on top of particle board. Did not change the looks of the table and still liked it but felt I got took. Was thinking that I was getting a great deal on the Table when in actuality I was not. __________________

icewolf64

icewolf64 icewolf64 icewolf64 #42 11-13-2010, 07:13 PM Join Date: Sep 2009 icewolf64 Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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Also I see no where in Eyal answer to the original post that he mentions the word goldstone and does say no man made material Quote" After speaking extensively with numerous experts, there seems to be confusion between the term Sandstone as used in jewelry and sandstone the raw dessert like sand material found in nature. What we are using is absolutely sandstone as known in the jewelry world and is considered a gemstone. That is why when you search the term “sandstone Jewelry� or look at all other vendors you will find a broad selection of jewelry with the same material used as in our sandstone dials. Many stones are modified, bonded, compressed, heated, dyed, bombarded, etc., for use in jewelry. The main reason being one of hardness, since in order to cut semiprecious stones for jewelry or dials you need a minimum hardness of 5-6. Some stones are rare and turned to dust and then compressed with natural, others have a tradition of going by the wrong gemological name such as black onyx which is also dyed black Agatha.

No one sells Ruby as a chemical compound (mineral) and tell you its pure aluminum oxide. No one sells Lapis as a Rock, or a diamond as carbon.

These stones have natural properties, not manmade, but have been processed to achieve the hardness required and/or change or enhance their look. We stand by our sandstone, a stone from natural elements, processed to achieve 5-6 hardness and it is not to be compared with raw sandstone which is too porous and soft for use in jewelry

A gemologist explained it as follow: Sandstone in the Jewelry industry is a sedimentary rock composed of tiny grains of quartz or feldspar. It can be any color, but is most commonly tan, brown, yellow, red, grey or white. The color is usually dependent on the region in which the stone was found. Sandstones are formed by cemented grains of small fragments of pre-existing rock or crystals and are usually bound together by calcite, clays or silica. The sedimentation process occurs when sand grains are bounced along the bottom of a body of water or ground surface, resulting in a pressure compacted mixture.

Because sandstone widely varies in its creation, its hardness widely varies as well.

I think that no answer is ever going to satisfy everyone, I appreciate the passion. If anything this has been very educational – I am sure there is no other brand out there that gets so personal and detailed about a component of a watch… I’m happy to do it – if this is not commitment, I don’t know what is. end of Quote A lot of individuals took a lot of flack from watchgeeks on this site for even questioning that it was not real and looked to be goldstone. Looks to me as if the truth has not been fully revealed and in such case is not a dead horse. To those who could care less then don't visit this thread and enjoy your watches and to those of us who do care let us know the truth. __________________

icewolf64

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#43 11-13-2010, 07:19 PM Join Date: Aug 2009 RUWatchingthis

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im glad i was not the only one to caught that! Man u guys don't miss a beat!! LOL __________________ Wait a minute, do you have a second. No i don't have the Time.

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RUWatchingthis RUWatchingthis RUWatchingthis RUWatchingthis #44 Yesterday, 12:28 PM

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Quote: Originally Posted by timeman We are hopefully approaching the end of the trail. SNBC has admitted these dials contain Goldstone on their web site. I hope they will also mention this fact on air when these types of dials are presented.

Instead of calling them sandstone material dials, a more accurate description for example would be sandstone / goldstone dials. As long as it's mentioned the dial contains goldstone, will let the consumer know what he's actually buying.

I totally agree Jerry, mention it on air so the consumer is informed of what they are truly buying. I like my Sandstone Pro Diver and would of bought it either way, I just like to know what I am truly buying. Be upfront and honest with the consumer and they will probably buy the product anyway. __________________

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WatchGeek4Life

WatchGeek4Life WatchGeek4Life WatchGeek4Life #45 Yesterday, 12:35 PM Join Date: Feb 2009 WATCHURSELF

Location: STATEN ISLAND / NEW YORK CITY

Senior Member

Posts: 1,139

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Real Name: George J

doesnt surprise me one bit!! __________________

George J

WATCHURSELF

WATCHURSELF WATCHURSELF

WATCHURSELF #46 Yesterday, 12:51 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 5,852 Real Name: Jerry

Quote: Originally Posted by WatchGeek4Life I totally agree Jerry, mention it on air so the consumer is informed of what they are truly buying. I like my Sandstone Pro Diver and would of bought it either way, I just like to know what I am truly buying.

Be upfront and honest with the consumer and they will probably buy the product anyway.

The thing is what sounds better and is more likely to sell, a sandstone or man-made goldstone dial?

Jewelry sandstone is actually goldstone. But if the customer is not aware of this, when he hears the dial is sandstone, he assumes he's getting genuine sandstone. __________________

timeman

timeman timeman timeman #47 Yesterday, 12:51 PM

Blade Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,211

Super Geek

Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex All do respect Jerry, but now we're kicking around a bucket of glue for a $59.00 watch.I spent the same money last night at Walmart for a pair of boots and I don't need a full disclosure of the origin and or materials used. Not at $58.99 I don't. All this thread will do is bring out the ones who carry a soap box around with them.

Doesn't matter if it's $59, $590, $5900, etc...

I believe Jerry's point is that if the origin and/or materials that are used is revealed, it should be correct.

Being misled is unacceptable, whether it be intentional or not, irrespective of the price. __________________

Blade

Blade Blade Blade #48 Yesterday, 12:52 PM

Blade Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,211

Super Geek

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman The thing is what sounds better and is more likely to sell, a sandstone or man-made goldstone dial?

Jewelry sandstone is actually goldstone. But if the customer is not aware of this, when he hears the dial is sandstone, he assumes he's getting genuine sandstone.

Jerry, I agree with this and your other points completely. __________________

Blade

Blade Blade Blade #49 Yesterday, 01:31 PM Join Date: Jan 2010 desert rex

Location: Virginia /Washington D.C.

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Posts: 1,495

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Real Name: Jeff

Quote: Originally Posted by Blade Doesn't matter if it's $59, $590, $5900, etc...

I believe Jerry's point is that if the origin and/or materials that are used is revealed, it should be correct. Being misled is unacceptable, whether it be intentional or not, irrespective of the price.

I took my nephew who is spending the weekend with me to Walmart.( he's 7 yr's old ) Among other things I bought him was a vintage style pocket watch with an Eagle on the front cover ( since he's into Eagles ) I paid $13.88 for that pocket watch. It is advertised as gold plated finish.Now I suppose I have a case and have every right to burn the village down for being a victim of product miss representation. ( because it said Gold plated in its description ) But I think I'll let others pull up a soap box in front of walmart and rally .I point to this since you indicate that price does not matter in these cases.I believe a consumer should also use some basic common sense as well when making a purchase. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

desert rex

desert rex desert rex

desert rex #50 Yesterday, 01:37 PM

Blade Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,211

Super Geek

Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex I took my nephew who is spending the weekend with me to Walmart.( he's 7 yr's old ) Among other things I bought him was a vintage style pocket watch with an Eagle on the front cover ( since he's into Eagles ) I paid $13.88 for that pocket watch. It is advertised as gold plated finish.Now I suppose I have a case and have every right to burn the village down for being a victim of product miss representation. ( because it said Gold plated in its description ) But I think I'll let others pull up a soap box in front of walmart and rally .I point to this since you indicate that price does not matter in these cases.I believe a consumer should also use some basic common sense as well when making a purchase.

Even still, your scenario does not make it acceptable to misrepresent.

So, by your reply, we should not trust Invicta or Shop in their product descriptions, verbal or otherwise, and it's ok. to misrepresent a product. __________________

timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 5,852 Real Name: Jerry

Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex I took my nephew who is spending the weekend with me to Walmart.( he's 7 yr's old ) Among other things I bought him was a vintage style pocket watch with an Eagle on the front cover ( since he's into Eagles ) I paid $13.88 for that pocket watch. It is advertised as gold plated finish.Now I suppose I have a case and have every right to burn the village down for being a victim of product miss representation. ( because it said Gold plated in its description ) But I think I'll let others pull up a soap box in front of walmart and rally .I point to this since you indicate that price does not matter in these cases.I believe a consumer should also use some basic common sense as well when making a purchase.

You do have a case if the plating is not gold as advertised. I don't recommend burning down the village, but a refund would be in order. If it doesn't bother you to pay for something and it turns out you were sold something else or not as advertised is fine, but I think you would be in the minority who feels this way. __________________

timeman timeman timeman timeman #52 Yesterday, 01:53 PM

desert rex Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia /Washington D.C. Posts: 1,495 Real Name: Jeff

Quote: Originally Posted by Blade I hardly see how your scenario makes it acceptable to misrepresent.

So, by your reply, we should not trust Invicta or Shop in their product descriptions and it's ok. to misrepresent a product.

The sand stone process has already been explained by Eyal,in which he went into great detail.The sand stone has been reinforced in order to be workable.If any other material has been used to enhance it's appearance, this would only benefit the consumer in overall appearance of the watch.I have never seen so much attention covering a $59.00 watch as in the case here.For those members who feel violated,I would suggest to pass on all Invicta time pieces,and move on.

If they're just driven to right a wrong in an all out crusade,I would suggest finding something of a real matter of importance where their energy might be better suited. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan desert rex desert rex desert rex desert rex #53 Yesterday, 01:55 PM

Ocean Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 742 Real Name: Adam

Quote: Originally Posted by Blade I hardly see how your scenario makes it acceptable to misrepresent.

So, by your reply, we should not trust Invicta or Shop in their product descriptions and it's ok. to misrepresent a product.

Accurate representation of product should always be a goal of a company in order to establish and maintain a sense of integrity. However, misrepresentation is present in all facets throughout the consumer goods industry; this shall remain unless specific laws prohibiting this exist-after all, it's a business, misrepresentation can be classified as a sales technique whether intentional or not.

An informed customer should exercise some due diligence prior to making a purchase.

Ocean Ocean Ocean Ocean Ocean #54 Yesterday, 01:56 PM

desert rex Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia /Washington D.C. Posts: 1,495 Real Name: Jeff

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman You do have a case if the plating is not gold as advertised. I don't recommend burning down the village, but a refund would be in order. If it doesn't bother you to pay for something and it turns out you were sold something else or not as advertised is fine, but I think you would be in the minority who feels this way.

Jerry ,again no disrespect meant towards you.I have always enjoyed your post.

We just are not on the same page on this topic.At $13.88 I like to believe that I am intelligent enough to distinguish between a play on word's in advertising,and product expectation. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan

desert rex desert rex desert rex desert rex #55 Yesterday, 01:57 PM

desert rex Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia /Washington D.C. Posts: 1,495 Real Name: Jeff

Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Accurate representation of product should always be a goal of a company in order to establish and maintain a sense of integrity. However, misrepresentation is present in all facets throughout the consumer goods industry; this shall remain unless specific laws prohibiting this exist-after all, it's a business, misrepresentation can be classified as a sales technique whether intentional or not.

An informed customer should exercise some due diligence prior to making a purchase.

Exactly my point __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan desert rex

desert rex desert rex desert rex #56 Yesterday, 02:03 PM

timeman Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 5,852 Real Name: Jerry

Quote: Originally Posted by desert rex The sand stone process has already been explained by Eyal,in which he went into great detail.The sand stone has been reinforced in order to be workable.If any other material has been used to enhance it's appearance, this would only benefit the consumer in overall appearance of the watch.I have never seen so much attention covering a $59.00 watch as in the case here.For those members who feel violated,I would suggest to pass on all Invicta time pieces,and move on. If their just driven to right a wrong in an all out crusade,I would suggest finding something of a real matter of importance where their energy might be better suited.

Eyal post was very informative to watchgeeks who read it on this forum. It would be great if the same information on other material(s) that were used to enhance the dial's appearance, in this case goldstone, was mentioned to the 60 million SNBC TV viewers. __________________

timeman timeman timeman timeman

#57 Yesterday, 02:21 PM

Blade Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,211

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman Eyal post was very informative to watchgeeks who read it on this forum. It would be great if the same information on other material(s) that were used to enhance the dial's appearance, in this case goldstone, was mentioned to the 60 million SNBC TV viewers.

I agree Jerry. And to the others who seems to feel that there is some price point at which a stated product description should be correct, or forgiven if incorrect -- even though the $59 price point is most likely a drop in the bucket to most people here, I would bet that there are a fair number of consumers who are not collectors, that their $59 may not be as easy to come by, and they would be upset to find out they have been misled. Some consumers couldn't care less for a $59 purchase, others would be upset. Those being upset for being misled on a $59 purchase are no less correct in their feeling of being "taken" vs. another consumer being misled on a $5900 purchase. $59 to one consumer is $5900 another. __________________

Blade Blade Blade Blade

#58 Yesterday, 02:22 PM

bugduck Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central VA. Blue Ridge MTNS. Posts: 3,314 Real Name: Lynn

Science, and Microscopes have been great tools to seperate Fact from Fiction.

I am just hoping They don't tell me in the future that the Rubber Strap on my Russian Diver is Made from Shaved Monkey Butt hair, mixed on a molecular level with a space rock ground up and mixed with Sea Sand ! bugduck bugduck bugduck bugduck bugduck #59 Yesterday, 02:23 PM

desert rex Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Virginia /Washington D.C. Posts: 1,495 Real Name: Jeff

Quote: Originally Posted by timeman Eyal post was very informative to watchgeeks who read it on this forum. It would be great if the same information on other material(s) that were used to enhance the dial's appearance, in

this case goldstone, was mentioned to the 60 million SNBC TV viewers.

You know what really separates the 60 million Shop NBC viewers from the members here.Shop viewers are enjoying the watches they buy.Their not scouring DOD sites, price searching for the same watch they just saw Jim and Mike present,looking for a better deal.They are not calling each other up in the middle of the night discussing the Swiss made topic,or the ress for Invicta's Swiss factory's. They are not sending Email's trying to catch Michael Davis in a lie. No, they are having fun buying Invicta time pieces,and enjoying life.Sometimes we can become so smart and technical that we become stupid,and forget how to enjoy this hobby we all share without looking for turmoil and conspiracy.

The word stupid is meant as part of the phrase and not directed to any member. __________________

Master Edmund.J.Mede 10th Dan desert rex desert rex desert rex desert rex #60 Yesterday, 02:36 PM Red Ryder Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: southern Calif Posts: 9,848

Originally Posted by mosc I don't get this. Sandstone is probably the cheapest rock on planet Earth. Even limestone is rarer. Most of the world's deserts are sandstone. Why get upset about this? If the claim was genuine gold, or turquoise, or something, that maybe be an issue. But sandstone? It's like genuine dirt. If Invicta enhances this worthless material to look good, so much the better.

Sheeesh...

True dat....was thinking of marketing some limestone...lol..

__________________ RUTHIE Red Ryder Red Ryder Red Ryder Red Ryder Red Ryder #61 Yesterday, 02:41 PM

iav84u Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Midland Michigan Posts: 518 Real Name: Jim

Quote: Originally Posted by bugduck Science, and Microscopes have been great tools to seperate Fact from Fiction.

I am just hoping They don't tell me in the future that the Rubber Strap on my Russian Diver is Made from Shaved Monkey Butt hair, mixed on a molecular level with a space rock ground up and mixed with Sea Sand !

There's no "monkey butt hair" in my rubber strap!? Oh! there's no "rubber" in my rubber strap either. I guess it's been enhanced. I know a girl who's been...but that's off topic. __________________ "Why do you need more watches," she says.

"Because I don't do drugs and its the next best high."

iav84u iav84u iav84u iav84u iav84u #62 Yesterday, 03:17 PM

bugduck Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Central VA. Blue Ridge MTNS. Posts: 3,314 Real Name: Lynn

The "Plot" may Thicken !

I was Thinking, What if there is Diamond dust residue on the Meteorite Dials as those are cut into Dials !

A Gibeon Meteorite Dial enhanced with DIAMONDS, OH NO ! bugduck bugduck bugduck bugduck bugduck #63 Yesterday, 06:40 PM MattC Member Member Geek

Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southern Oregon, God's country Posts: 52

Not to be an a.., but, anyone with half a brain knows that sandstone is a fragile, crumbling material. It can't be cut or shaped without some kind of binding agent and compaction.

MattC MattC MattC MattC #64 Yesterday, 07:03 PM

bichondy1057 Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 2,642 Real Name: Larry

Well...since I grew up in a family of Gemologist, Geologist, and rock hounds....I knew from the get go that the "Sandstone" dials were different colored Goldstone dials. Sandstone could never be used by itself...it's too soft. I mean...if you ever had a class in geology...even in like the 8th grade...you got to see what sandstone was...and limestone...etc. My Great Aunt use to make "Goldstone" herself...she was a certified Gemologist...she cut diamonds and faceted them for a living.

I posted about this a long time ago...that it was also called aventurine glass...and it's made for lots of diffent uses in jewelry. You use copper to make the red goldstone...and Cobalt to make the blue goldstone...manganese to make purple goldstone...chromium makes a green goldstone. It's a quick lookup on the net...or on Wikipedia....

I like my "blue sandstone" dial....and I knew from the start what it was....aventurine glass..not sandstone.... __________________

Larry in Spring, Tx