Should invicta make a follow up statement by Watch Geeks

View Poll Results: Should Invicta make a follow up statement? I'm satisfied with the response

15.60%

I'm satisfied, close this thread, beating a dead horse, not this again, who cares....

27.98%

I would like to hear how they will market these "Swiss" labeled Invicta's in the future.

19.72%

I really would just like to get a final word on the subject from Team Invicta

14.22%

I'm satisfied with the response, but would also like to get Jim Skelton's take on the issue

8.72%

I'm not satisfied with the response, but would also like to get Jim Skelton's take on the issue

22.48%

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 218. This poll is closed

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#1 Yesterday, 11:23 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 756

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

POLL:(UPDATED 1st Tally 6/7/2010) Should Invicta make a follow up statement

Since the other thread was closed without Team Invicta making any further comments, do you feel satisfied with their answer regarding the use of "Swiss" on the dial of Chinese made watches? Invicta's Official Response here public multiple choice poll

UPDATED As of 06/07/2010 @ 2am, CDT the votes of the Multiple Choice Poll are as follows: Out of a total of 194 votes 80 votes (41%) Are satisfied and don't need to hear anything further

• •

I'm satisfied with the response I'm satisfied, close this thread, beating a dead horse, not this again, who cares....

114 votes (59%) would like to get more information on this. • • • •

I would like to hear how they will market these "Swiss" labeled Invicta's in the future. I really would like to get a final word on the subject from Team Invicta I'm satisfied with the response, but would also like to get Jim Skelton's take on the issue I'm not satisfied with the response, but would also like to get Jim Skelton's take on the issue

Thank you all for your comments, keeping it Civil, and for your votes. The Results show that the majority of 59% would like to hear more on this matter! 3 Lastest Threads by Time Bandit Thread

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My SAS Mid-sized is Swiss Made

General Invicta Watch Discussions

waswell

06-07-2010 07:46 PM

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Time Bandit

06-07-2010 02:50 PM

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06-06-2010 11:23 AM

POLL:(UPDATED 1st Tally 6/7/2010) Should Invicta...

General Invicta Watch Discussions

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Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #2 Yesterday, 11:26 AM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,691 Real Name: Steve "Swolle"

Swolletime Senior Member Super Geek

For me, that's the first that I have seen Invicta make a response to a dispute.

I think that response will be the best it will get. We won't get a more detailed explanation nor do they want to. It was a vague statement, but answered the question. Nothing specific. Oh BTW- I don't think Jim has anything to do with it. He's just a salesman, and it told what he can and cannot say. It's all up to Invicta. Politics bro... __________________

.. SAS VallĂŠe de Joux 7750 Swolletime View Public Profile Send a private message to Swolletime Find all posts by Swolletime Add Swolletime to Your Contacts #3 Yesterday, 11:29 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: from ny live in g.a Posts: 3,460

BIGNOIZE Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by swolletime for me, that's the first that i have seen invicta make a response to a dispute. I think that response will be the best it will get. We won't get a more detailed explanation nor do they want to. It was a vague statement, but answered the question. Nothing specific. Oh btw- i don't think jim has anything to do with it. He's just a salesman, and it told what he can and cannot say. It's all up to invicta. Politics bro... i agree ...bout as good as it will get __________________ L.T.R LEARN, TEACH, REPEAT

BIGNOIZE View Public Profile Send a private message to BIGNOIZE Find all posts by BIGNOIZE Add BIGNOIZE to Your Contacts #4 Yesterday, 11:30 AM Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 725 Real Name: Jim

js1946 Senior Member Veteran Geek

It is what it is....Buyer beware. Nuff said! __________________ What time is it? js1946 View Public Profile Send a private message to js1946 Find all posts by js1946 Add js1946 to Your Contacts #5 Yesterday, 11:31 AM

tampa8

Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa FLorida & Storrs Ct Posts: 1,093

Senior Member Super Geek

I'm at the point to where it has all been said. Invicta/Shop knows how so many of us feel. We got a statement from the CEO of Invicta. Even I am guilty of still posting about it, and this I hope will be the last time I do. Unless we intend to somehow make sure everyone on earth knows how we feel, the point has been made, we now can decide to buy or not buy based on much better information than what we had. I don't think we are here to make Invicta change what they say "Swiss" means, only to get some explanation of why so we can make educated choices, and we did. Anything more would require someone to show some criminality and go to court I guess. I say this as someone who agrees there was a problem, and now must move on. I would never tell anyone else what to post or not to post, just speaking for myslef. __________________ Remember, watches are people too. tampa8

View Public Profile Send a private message to tampa8 Find all posts by tampa8 Add tampa8 to Your Contacts #6 Yesterday, 11:32 AM Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NEW YORK Posts: 1,002 Real Name: V.C.

subaquaviva Senior Member Super Geek

LET IT DIE ALREADY!!!!!! Just my opinion. __________________

subaquaviva View Public Profile Send a private message to subaquaviva Send email to subaquaviva Find all posts by subaquaviva Add subaquaviva to Your Contacts #7 Yesterday, 11:34 AM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,041 Real Name: Charlie

CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek

I'm not satisfied with the response, but would also like to get Jim Skelton's take on the issue __________________

RIP Coach Wooden CharlieB View Public Profile Send a private message to CharlieB Find all posts by CharlieB Add CharlieB to Your Contacts #8 Yesterday, 11:37 AM

09tsar

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: San Antonio Posts: 252 Real Name: Eric

Senior Member Senior Geek

They've done enough in my opinion. You can't please everyone I suppose. 09tsar View Public Profile Send a private message to 09tsar Find all posts by 09tsar Add 09tsar to Your Contacts #9 Yesterday, 11:38 AM

strutn45 Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 9,117 Real Name: John "WHO DAT"

Quote:

Originally Posted by subaquaviva LET IT DIE ALREADY!!!!!! Just my opinion. Quote:

Originally Posted by 09tsar They've done enough in my opinion. You can't please everyone I suppose. I agree, the hell with it. __________________

"WHO DAT" strutn45 View Public Profile Send a private message to strutn45 Send email to strutn45 Find all posts by strutn45 Add strutn45 to Your Contacts #10 Yesterday, 11:40 AM Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 166

freedom727 Senior Member Senior Geek

i think this issues is still very unclear freedom727 View Public Profile Send a private message to freedom727 Find all posts by freedom727 Add freedom727 to Your Contacts #11 Yesterday, 11:44 AM

Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Pompano Beach , Fl. Posts: 2,010 Real Name: Roger

Rog1 Senior Member Super Geek

I had no problem understanding Eyal's post. R __________________

I'm earning extra watch money, one wipe at a time!!!! Rog1 View Public Profile Send a private message to Rog1 Find all posts by Rog1 Add Rog1 to Your Contacts #12 Yesterday, 11:51 AM Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,785

KOKONUTZ Senior Member Super Geek

Eyal made an official Invicta reply......let it rest now. KOKONUTZ View Public Profile Send a private message to KOKONUTZ Find all posts by KOKONUTZ

Add KOKONUTZ to Your Contacts #13 Yesterday, 11:54 AM Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA Posts: 1,282 Real Name: Eric.

emathieu Senior Member Super Geek

I'm not satisfied, but I think I'm done with it now... I already hadn't purchased any new Invictas since July of last year because of issues, and this pretty much does it for me forever now. I won't be commenting on any more of the "SWISS" threads. I'm over it (and Invicta). I'll probably only hold on to my Sea Vulture auto and my original SAS and dump the others I still have. Invicta was a much different watch company back when those two were made. Oh well. __________________ Eric. emathieu View Public Profile Send a private message to emathieu Find all posts by emathieu Add emathieu to Your Contacts #14 Yesterday, 11:54 AM

STILL TICKIN Senior Member Master WatchGeek

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Da Mad Scientist Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Since the thread was closed without Team Invicta making any further comments, do

you feel satisfied with their answer? public poll

Do you wear two watches in case you're not satisified with the answer of the first? Da Mad Scientist View Public Profile Send a private message to Da Mad Scientist Find all posts by Da Mad Scientist Add Da Mad Scientist to Your Contacts #16 Yesterday, 11:59 AM Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: California Posts: 17,839 Real Name: Gene

RenatoDiamond Senior Member True WatchGeek

I'm ok with the answer. __________________

RenatoDiamond RenatoDiamond View Public Profile Send a private message to RenatoDiamond Send email to RenatoDiamond Find all posts by RenatoDiamond Add RenatoDiamond to Your Contacts #17 Yesterday, 12:02 PM

tpd516

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 453 Real Name: Andy

Senior Member Senior Geek

The statement was rediculously vague, but clear enough to me that I was the fool who fell for Invicta's "marketing". When even Torneau (Las Vegas) sells Invictas for the same price as ShopNBC, I find the MSRP's listed as an obvious joke. Plain and simple, Invicta has lost me as a customer. But, that's the joy of this culture...to each his/her own. __________________

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waswell

Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 530

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Unless the owners of this forum agree to post Eyal's response #401 as a sticky then I'm not satisfied. I want Invicta to return to it's roots - Customers first not the bottom line !!!! Keeping this issue under raps is not putting us first. Be honest with your product and stop the game playing. I want to buy more of your watches but will not until you start to care about the customer. CS and marketing ploys are killing your rep waswell View Public Profile Send a private message to waswell Find all posts by waswell Add waswell to Your Contacts #19 Yesterday, 12:26 PM

timeman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,772 Real Name: Jerry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Eyal's post made no mention of stopping the practice of placing "Swiss" on dials of Invicta watches containing Swiss parts movements. When presenting a Swiss parts movement watch with "Swiss" on the dial, I have noticed MD not using the word Swiss at all. But will not correct hosts who refer to these watches as "Swiss Made". And continues to say all "Reserve" watches are Swiss Made, when some are not. Again MD is only following company policy and talking points.

I would like these points addressed by Eyal / Invicta and to actually have him make a statement on how he will stop these misleading practices. __________________

timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #20 Yesterday, 12:29 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 619

CHUCK WAGON Senior Member Veteran Geek

What statement? I have no clue what you're talking about CHUCK WAGON View Public Profile Send a private message to CHUCK WAGON Find all posts by CHUCK WAGON Add CHUCK WAGON to Your Contacts #21 Yesterday, 12:35 PM Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 671 Real Name: Stan

RoyalOak Senior Member Veteran Geek

I ORIGINALLY WROTE THIS POST TODAY IN THE "INVICTA HAS STYLE" THREAD

STARTED BY GENCOUPE10. AFTER READING THE TITLE OF THIS TREAD, I THINK MY POST MAY BE MORE APPROPRIATE HERE, BECAUSE AS THEY SAY IN LOS ANGELES WITH EARTHQUAKES "I FEEL ANOTHER ONE COMING" IN TERMS OF AFTER SHOCKS. I CAN SEE WHERE THIS THREAD IS HEADED. IS IT HAS BEEN MODIFIED ONLY TO BE ON POINT WITH THIS TREAD. SO, THESE ARE MY FEELINGS AND OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AND FOR THAT MATTER, EVERY INVICTA ISSUE WHERE THE THREADS JUST DISINTEGRATE TO THE POINT OF BEING CLOSED OR THE POSTERS ARE REPEATEDLY WARNED BY THE MODERATOR. I HOPE THIS POST MAKES SENSE TO AT LEAST SOME OF YOU. I think it is evident by all the recent threads about Swiss Made vs. Swiss that there are people that just do not care where an Invicta is made, some have even said they do not care about the movement, they care about the design/looks (they like it) and the value/price, while other members really care about both the movement, and whether it meets the definition/standards of a Swiss Made timepiece in terms of their decision of value to price. I'm one who does care about the both the movement, and whether the watch meets the standards of a Swiss Made timepiece. Every Reserve Invicta I have purchased has Swiss Made on the dial, except for 2 Amazon Exclusives- the F series that just said Swiss on the dial. Until these recent developments of Swiss Made and Swiss not being the same, I took everyone connected with Invicta at their word that they were one and the same. I knew Invicta was not a member of the Swiss Federation, but was led to believe they were voluntarily following the Swiss Made standards/definition, since members of the Swiss Federation can use just Swiss as their designation of a Swiss Made watch. I never had any reason to doubt their word, because the 2 Swiss Invicta I purchased were $330 (Bolt Chrono on SS Bracelet/Blue Sunray dial) and $380 (SAS GMT on SS Bracelet/Black Dial), so they were not suspicious "sweet heart" deals. Although I do very much care about both the movement, and meeting the Swiss Made standards when I purchase a watch, I respect everyone else's priorities, tastes, and right to select their watch purchases based upon there own personal buying criteria. I have sat on the sidelines, and read with great interest every one of these threads (that were eventually closed or remained open). I have only contributed to the extent of agreeing with self evident points, like Issac's "I just want to be a well informed buyer." After Eyal's response I think we are all more well informed then before this issue came up. The biggest problem I see here, now that we know all of the facts directly from Eyal, is many people's lack of tolerance of each other's watch purchasing priorities and points of view. In my relative short time here, I've made two observations: 1. For some reason the Invicta brand more than any other brand seems to be the "Lightning Rod" for disagreement that all too often leads to a disintegration of intelligent discussion, debate, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism turns into sniping, pot shots and the like; and 2. A lack of tolerance of differing views and opinions by two opposing factions on this forum. The one common thing I have read and observed is you pretty much see the same members on either side of an issue with Invicta discussion. There are some moderates, which I would love to name, but I do not want to leave anyone out. The veterans on this site know better than me who's who.

Like Issac said, it is this simple all I want is to make informed buying decisions. I really hope that member's will either self regulate, or the Moderators will step in sooner, so intelligent debate doesn't disintegrate as I've seen too many times in the short time I've been here. Remember, we all have one major thing in common, and that is a real passion for watches! Like dog lovers, they all love their dogs, but everyone has a breed that they prefer over certain others. Yet when I'd go to a dog park there was always some comraderie among all dog owners, and a respect for a fellow dog lover. I for one would like to see more of that here! RoyalOak View Public Profile Send a private message to RoyalOak Find all posts by RoyalOak Add RoyalOak to Your Contacts #22 Yesterday, 12:42 PM

ptrainbow Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Posts: 652 Real Name: Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by waswell Unless the owners of this forum agree to post Eyal's response #401 as a sticky then I'm not satisfied. I want Invicta to return to it's roots - Customers first not the bottom line !!!! Keeping this issue under raps is not putting us first. Be honest with your product and stop the game playing. I want to buy more of your watches but will not until you start to care about the customer. CS and marketing ploys are killing your rep A good Customer Service Manager would help them through this and would be *at a minimum* answering your questions as best as he/she could.

Still trying to get that DREAM JOB!!!! Ha, will never happen.....unfortunately. ptrainbow View Public Profile Send a private message to ptrainbow Send email to ptrainbow Find all posts by ptrainbow Add ptrainbow to Your Contacts #23 Yesterday, 12:48 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 150

Samgrub Senior Member Senior Geek

Where is Eyal's response #401 located, I would be interested in reading it. Samgrub View Public Profile Send a private message to Samgrub Find all posts by Samgrub Add Samgrub to Your Contacts #24 Yesterday, 12:48 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tempe, suburb of Phoenix Posts: 18,150

wave3214 Senior Member True WatchGeek

Its time to move on and get back to loving watches __________________

wave3214 View Public Profile Send a private message to wave3214 Find all posts by wave3214 Add wave3214 to Your Contacts #25 Yesterday, 12:49 PM

Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Raleigh, N.C. Posts: 4,004 Real Name: Arnie

Arnie11 Senior Member Master WatchGeek

I saw the movie Invictus!! Liked it alot! What's the problem???

__________________ Ignorance is bliss. That's why I try to know as little as possible. Life is short. Buy as many watches as you can! Regards, Arnie Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 > Thread Tools

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#26 Yesterday, 12:59 PM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 1,919

ao Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samgrub Where is Eyal's response #401 located, I would be interested in reading it. Page 17. Man, that was an EPIC thread. http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=108489 ao View Public Profile Send a private message to ao Send email to ao Find all posts by ao Add ao to Your Contacts #27 Yesterday, 01:13 PM

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Owlwatch Senior Member Veteran Geek

A mentor of mine once helped me understand the difference between something not understood vs. something not being accepted! On occasion he would hear me say…I don’t understand and what I meant was I didn’t accept. After all that has been posted and said regarding Invicta and Swiss Made and Swiss…I am very concerned if folks still don’t understand! And it’s time to accept because “it is what it is” and many of us are not surprised. Marketing is about creating an illusion with the core focus is high profit. I choose not to be offended and in the sense of community ask others to consider moving on with their lives, enjoy the blessings of their life…including their “I” watches. I do not need another statement from Invicta or a statement from anyone associated with SNBC!!! Owlwatch View Public Profile Send a private message to Owlwatch Find all posts by Owlwatch Add Owlwatch to Your Contacts #28 Yesterday, 01:15 PM

waswell

Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 530

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Here is post #401 by Eyal ************************************************** ************* I have been asked to personally clarify the confusion with the markings on the watches. I feel I have a confident and open enough relationship with our customers to make a clear statement and get this matter clarified once and for all. While I know that it is impossible to satisfy everyone, it is our commitment to keep a top level relationship with our very loyal customer base. There is a definite gray area in the use of the words “Swiss”, “Swiss Made”, “Swiss

Movements”, “Swiss Parts”, “Swiss Components”, and “Swiss Registration”. The fact of the matter is that, like in many “multiple-component” products, where the country of origin adds value to the product, we tend to highlight that. A perfect example is the auto industry. You might buy a Mercedes that is manufactured in Mexico using German engineering, some German parts, etc. The brand focuses on highlighting their “German” standards. Much in the same way, the watch industry does when Swiss is present. Without mentioning brands, it is important to understand that Switzerland almost produces NO watch components except parts associated with the movements, and assembly. What this means is that if you bought a $6000.00 Swiss Made Chronograph from “Brand X”, what you are likely buying is a watch that houses a Swiss Made movement (And even the movement components themselves have their own complicated breakdown value. For instance, even if a movement is “Swiss Made”, it does not mean every part in the movement was made in Switzerland, only a given percentage of that ) and the watch was assembled and tested in Switzerland. We do the same, and hopefully that brings clarity to everyone that when we mark a watch “Swiss Made”, you are buying a Swiss Made watch with a Swiss made movement, that is assembled in Switzerland. Then we get into the way we use the word “SWISS”. The the word “Swiss” was used on watches as a description for a watch using a movement with Swiss part Origins. This includes movements that are bought from SWISS COMPANIES, with SWISS ENGENEERING, that are tested in Switzerland, but has components that are sent off to the Far East for cost purposes to be assembled. Examples of these are ETA, Ronda, ISA, “Far East versions”. They were developed to assist in delivering the consumer more value, on an otherwise identical item. Today, the word Swiss is used on watches that are very inexpensive, because the brand used a Swiss Movement Far East assembly version. Yes as companies we do call more attention to this than the fact that the movement is assembled in China, but that’s marketing. Then there is the talk about the Swiss Federation. I cannot speak too much into the Swiss Federation standard because it is a private foreign entity, not a law dictating body, and we do not belong to it for a variety of reasons I prefer not to go into. I respect companies developing a stamp of approval and charging for it, such as COSC, but to be part of a group that develops standards on watches based on the direction of the “big players” in the watch industry, and attempting to apply them to smaller companies without giving them a fair chance, is a monopoly, and I am strongly against that. I make this statement on a personal level, and hope that it can bring some level of clarity to this discussion. Sincerely, Eyal waswell View Public Profile Send a private message to waswell Find all posts by waswell Add waswell to Your Contacts #29 Yesterday, 01:15 PM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,367 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

Stan, I completely agree with your observations. Consumers have the right to spend their dollars WHERE and HOW they wish. They have the right to be correctly informed in order to make those purchases. But like ALL industries, people make mistakes and/or misstatements. It's not some diabolical plot; just the way it is. Two people seeing the same event will process the information differently. Two people READING information will retain or interpret the data differently. Two people GIVEN the same information will write about it differently. Writing is at best VERY DIFFICULT. There is only words. It is impersonal. No emotion, no influx in speech, no facial expressions, only WORDS. Where some may see sarcasm, others will not. Where some see anger, others will not. Where some feel "attacked" other will not! Where some comprehend the written word, others will not. The words used are important as are their meaning. However, "some" of the intolerance comes from some "trolling", some make "accusations" not based on fact, and some get carried away with their emotions. Is this (Swiss/Swiss Made) a "new" problem? No, it started way back when the Swiss Industry in order to keep up with Japan decided to go full throttle into the Quartz/Digital marketplace. The "rules" did not change with the times (no pun intended). They were written before the full advent of quartz movements and where primarily intended to apply to mechanicals. However, the rulings and interpretation by "Swiss" courts have (in my worthless opinion) only muddled things. I'm a creature of logic. So whether (referring to movements only) Swiss send their parts to Asia to assemble or Asia sends their parts to Swiss to assemble, logic for me says same/same. But that's quartz. My personal collection is 75% mechanical/auto. Always has been and remains so. WHY? Because (at least in my situation) I know exactly where each movement was assembled and where the parts "typically" originate. As for encasing the movement, don't care as long as the "finished" product meets MY standards. Enjoyed your well thought out and reasonable post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalOak I ORIGINALLY WROTE THIS POST TODAY IN THE "INVICTA HAS STYLE" THREAD

the same members on either side of an issue with Invicta discussion. There are some moderates, which I would love to name, but I do not want to leave anyone out. The veterans on this site know better than me who's who. Like Issac said, it is this simple all I want is to make informed buying decisions. I really hope that member's will either self regulate, or the Moderators will step in sooner, so intelligent debate doesn't disintegrate as I've seen too many times in the short time I've been here. Remember, we all have one major thing in common, and that is a real passion for watches! Like dog lovers, they all love their dogs, but everyone has a breed that they prefer over certain others. Yet when I'd go to a dog park there was always some comraderie among all dog owners, and a respect for a fellow dog lover. I for one would like to see more of that here! __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #30 Yesterday, 01:17 PM

nycruza Senior Member Super Geek

OBVIOUSLY

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,367 Real Name: A.J.

A very WISE man!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlwatch

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #31 Yesterday, 01:28 PM

curiousgeorge Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Mpls Posts: 2,371 Real Name: George

Personally being a long time collector of watches and Invicta for 8 years I have always thought that Swiss Made meant it met the guidelines, and Swiss to me, especially with Invicta meant what Eyal has stated in his response. I have some Lucienn Piccards that are marked Swiss and pop them open and the movement has the china assembled Swiss movements. So this controversy means little to me. As to Shop hosts saying thoroughly Swiss on these pieces I don't think they are purposely being deceptive. Save for Jim, tim, and Michael none of them are what you would call watch experts. Michael gave his explanation, I believe him. I personally don't need any more explanation. For those that feel they do, I hope you get what will satisfy you. curiousgeorge

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reliefcp

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,683 Real Name: C.J.

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Disappointed in the response but I have moved on. It is what it is. __________________

reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #33 Yesterday, 01:41 PM

My Watch Senior Member Veteran Geek

tell me what your selling and were made very simple My Watch View Public Profile

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SeaVulture

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlwatch

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture

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aquacleaner

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I concur Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaVulture AMEN, Brother!! Time to do some deep meditation on this. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm __________________

Yessss. We're in the "WEED Business". We don't smoke em, We Suck them Up !!! aquacleaner View Public Profile Send a private message to aquacleaner Send email to aquacleaner Visit aquacleaner's homepage! Find all posts by aquacleaner Add aquacleaner to Your Contacts #36 Yesterday, 02:00 PM

fstowell

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 153 Real Name: Fred

Senior Member Senior Geek

I would just like them to be honest and tell me where the watch is made so I can decide if I think the price they are asking is fair or not. I would not pay the same price for an Asian made watch as I would for a Swiss made watch just as the manufacturer does not. __________________

fstowell View Public Profile Send a private message to fstowell Send email to fstowell Find all posts by fstowell Add fstowell to Your Contacts #37 Yesterday, 02:03 PM Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Thomasville, NC Posts: 5,925 Real Name: -Rick-

CurrentTime Senior Member True WatchGeek

It is what it is . . . nothing has changed, only your knowledge of it. ENJOY your watch purchases . . . whatever brand they may be or wherever you buy them! __________________

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Grumpyface

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I'm not happy with the response from Invicta, but I've been a high level consultant and sat in too many executive meetings to expect otherwise. It is nothing more than a shabby excuse for openly deceiving people. I might feel otherwise had the "explanation" been presented ahead of time, and if people on ShopNBC were not instructed to say Swiss = Swiss Made. But it was not. I tuned in last night for part of the show just to see how they were describing some of the watches. Mike said at one point "all the reserve line are Swiss Made and hand assembled". Turns out not to be true, but I don't expect them to change their descriptions right away, nor do I blame Mike or any of the ShopNBC hosts. They are simply repeating what they are told to say. I understand that. However, that's where we are and I don't think there is really anything to gained by asking Invicta (Eyal) for an additional statement. He didn't write that letter intending it to be the first in a series of letters on the subject, of that I am sure. And for some people, no matter what Eyal says, or how many times he says it, it won't ever be enough. Remember, no where in his letter does Eyal address the fact that in his watches Swiss has been said to be the same as Swiss Made. And that is the deception that a lot of people are upset about, which includes me, or course. So I don't think he's going to say any more about it. This obvious deception is not marketing spin either, as many, including Eyal, would have you believe. And all of a sudden a number of the Invicta defenders would have you believe they knew it all along and its just a little "marketing" slight of hand, I haven't seen any of them posting that information before this.

So then, like the news reporters say, unless something new crops up, that's about it. I definitely want to thank all of those involved for sticking with the thread, staying focused and eventually running the truth to ground. And that certainly includes all the moderators, especially Georgethewatchguy for keeping the thread open when many, many wanted it closed. Grumpyface View Public Profile Send a private message to Grumpyface Find all posts by Grumpyface Add Grumpyface to Your Contacts #39 Yesterday, 03:13 PM

unclefixit

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Universal City, Texas (about 10 miles N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,460 Real Name: Jay

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalOak I ORIGINALLY WROTE THIS POST TODAY IN THE "INVICTA HAS STYLE" THREAD STARTED BY GENCOUPE10. AFTER READING THE TITLE OF THIS TREAD, I THINK MY POST MAY BE MORE APPROPRIATE HERE, BECAUSE AS THEY SAY IN LOS ANGELES WITH EARTHQUAKES "I FEEL ANOTHER ONE COMING" IN TERMS OF AFTER SHOCKS. I CAN SEE WHERE THIS THREAD IS HEADED. IS IT HAS BEEN MODIFIED ONLY TO BE ON POINT WITH THIS TREAD. SO, THESE ARE MY FEELINGS AND OBSERVATIONS ABOUT THIS ISSUE, AND FOR THAT MATTER, EVERY INVICTA ISSUE WHERE THE THREADS JUST DISINTEGRATE TO THE POINT OF BEING CLOSED OR THE POSTERS ARE REPEATEDLY WARNED BY THE MODERATOR. I HOPE THIS POST MAKES SENSE TO AT LEAST SOME OF YOU. I think it is evident by all the recent threads about Swiss Made vs. Swiss that there are people that just do not care where an Invicta is made, some have even said they do not care about the movement, they care about the design/looks (they like it) and the value/price, while other members really care about both the movement, and whether it meets the definition/standards of a Swiss Made timepiece in terms of their decision of value to price. I'm one who does care about the both the movement, and whether the watch meets the standards of a Swiss Made timepiece. Every Reserve Invicta I have purchased has Swiss Made on the dial, except for 2 Amazon Exclusives- the F series that just said Swiss on the dial. Until these recent developments of Swiss Made and Swiss not being the same, I took everyone connected with Invicta at their word that they were one and the same. I knew Invicta was not a member of the Swiss Federation, but was led to believe they were voluntarily following the Swiss Made standards/definition, since members of the Swiss Federation can use just Swiss as

their designation of a Swiss Made watch. I never had any reason to doubt their word, because the 2 Swiss Invicta I purchased were $330 (Bolt Chrono on SS Bracelet/Blue Sunray dial) and $380 (SAS GMT on SS Bracelet/Black Dial), so they were not suspicious "sweet heart" deals. Although I do very much care about both the movement, and meeting the Swiss Made standards when I purchase a watch, I respect everyone else's priorities, tastes, and right to select their watch purchases based upon there own personal buying criteria. I have sat on the sidelines, and read with great interest every one of these threads (that were eventually closed or remained open). I have only contributed to the extent of agreeing with self evident points, like Issac's "I just want to be a well informed buyer." After Eyal's response I think we are all more well informed then before this issue came up. The biggest problem I see here, now that we know all of the facts directly from Eyal, is many people's lack of tolerance of each other's watch purchasing priorities and points of view. In my relative short time here, I've made two observations: 1. For some reason the Invicta brand more than any other brand seems to be the "Lightning Rod" for disagreement that all too often leads to a disintegration of intelligent discussion, debate, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism turns into sniping, pot shots and the like; and 2. A lack of tolerance of differing views and opinions by two opposing factions on this forum. The one common thing I have read and observed is you pretty much see the same members on either side of an issue with Invicta discussion. There are some moderates, which I would love to name, but I do not want to leave anyone out. The veterans on this site know better than me who's who. Like Issac said, it is this simple all I want is to make informed buying decisions. I really hope that member's will either self regulate, or the Moderators will step in sooner, so intelligent debate doesn't disintegrate as I've seen too many times in the short time I've been here. Remember, we all have one major thing in common, and that is a real passion for watches! Like dog lovers, they all love their dogs, but everyone has a breed that they prefer over certain others. Yet when I'd go to a dog park there was always some comraderie among all dog owners, and a respect for a fellow dog lover. I for one would like to see more of that here! Stan...you may be new here, but I feel you have much to offer in the way of calm, insightful disscussion. Quote:

Originally Posted by Owlwatch

what it is” and many of us are not surprised. Marketing is about creating an illusion with the core focus is high profit. I choose not to be offended and in the sense of community ask others to consider moving on with their lives, enjoy the blessings of their life…including their “I” watches. I do not need another statement from Invicta or a statement from anyone associated with SNBC!!! Your mentor shared with you something all of us can benefit from...thanks for the reminder. Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza Stan, I completely agree with your observations. Consumers have the right to spend their dollars WHERE and HOW they wish. They have the right to be correctly informed in order to make those purchases. But like ALL industries, people make mistakes and/or misstatements. It's not some diabolical plot; just the way it is. Two people seeing the same event will process the information differently. Two people READING information will retain or interpret the data differently. Two people GIVEN the same information will write about it differently. Writing is at best VERY DIFFICULT. There is only words. It is impersonal. No emotion, no influx in speech, no facial expressions, only WORDS. Where some may see sarcasm, others will not. Where some see anger, others will not. Where some feel "attacked" other will not! Where some comprehend the written word, others will not. The words used are important as are their meaning. However, "some" of the intolerance comes from some "trolling", some make "accusations" not based on fact, and some get carried away with their emotions. Is this (Swiss/Swiss Made) a "new" problem? No, it started way back when the Swiss Industry in order to keep up with Japan decided to go full throttle into the Quartz/Digital marketplace. The "rules" did not change with the times (no pun intended). They were written before the full advent of quartz movements and where primarily intended to apply to mechanicals. However, the rulings and interpretation by "Swiss" courts have (in my worthless opinion) only muddled things. I'm a creature of logic. So whether (referring to movements only) Swiss send their parts to Asia to assemble or Asia sends their parts to Swiss to assemble, logic for me says same/same. But that's quartz. My personal collection is 75% mechanical/auto. Always has been and remains so. WHY? Because (at least in my situation) I know exactly where each movement was assembled and where the parts "typically" originate. As for encasing the movement, don't care as long as the "finished" product meets MY standards. Enjoyed your well thought out and reasonable post! AJ...your sense of logic often brings a certain clarity to many of the topics

you comment on...it's always appriciated. Quote:

Originally Posted by curiousgeorge Personally being a long time collector of watches and Invicta for 8 years I have always thought that Swiss Made meant it met the guidelines, and Swiss to me, especially with Invicta meant what Eyal has stated in his response. I have some Lucienn Piccards that are marked Swiss and pop them open and the movement has the china assembled Swiss movements. So this controversy means little to me. As to Shop hosts saying thoroughly Swiss on these pieces I don't think they are purposely being deceptive. Save for Jim, tim, and Michael none of them are what you would call watch experts. Michael gave his explanation, I believe him. I personally don't need any more explanation. For those that feel they do, I hope you get what will satisfy you. Your post points out something that IMO was missed by many here in regard to Eyal's response. That is the fact that this labeling practice is all to commen in the watch world. Especially when talking about quartz movement equipped watches. Invicta is indeed not alone in the way that they label things. unclefixit View Public Profile Send a private message to unclefixit Find all posts by unclefixit Add unclefixit to Your Contacts #40 Yesterday, 03:13 PM

DIAMANTE

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,824

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpyface ...snip...I tuned in last night for part of the show just to see how they were describing some of the watches. Mike said at one point "all the reserve line are Swiss Made and hand assembled". Turns out not to be true, but I don't expect them to change their descriptions right away, nor do I blame Mike or any of the ShopNBC hosts. They are simply repeating what they are told to say. I understand that....snip.... I don't understand why Mike would continue to say the Reserve line is Swiss Made. He said he would call like it is. He now knows those watches have Asian movements but he's still calling them Swiss Made? Saying the SNBC hosts are only repeating what they are told to say is no excuse. I don't think we are going to get another statement and they are definitely not going to admit any wrongdoing.

I really appreciate Royal Oak's post in this thread. He's right. The WG membership is large and obviously opinions will vary. Some members want to have substantive discussions and some members can't handle it. There are members with a gazillion posts who have never written a complete sentence. Thats cool (there are times when it is appropriate) but unfortunately these are usually the same foks who post things along the lines of "stop talking about this" "dead horse" "close the thread", etc.. in a thread where other members are having a substantive discussion. I see posts all the time that I think are ridiculous (and redundant) but I have never once posted in them saying "stop talking about this" "not again", etc... There is room for everyone. If there is a discussion going on in a thread that you don't like have the courtesy to ignore it and allow other members to have their discussion. D __________________ Swiss Made OG II Chrono (5050c) DIAMANTE View Public Profile Send a private message to DIAMANTE Find all posts by DIAMANTE Add DIAMANTE to Your Contacts #41 Yesterday, 03:22 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 515

MATTNATTI Senior Member Veteran Geek

its pretty clear on a foggy day __________________ Did you see that? Do they all got hedges like that? Do they? MATTNATTI View Public Profile Send a private message to MATTNATTI Send email to MATTNATTI Find all posts by MATTNATTI Add MATTNATTI to Your Contacts #42

Yesterday, 03:44 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Upstate, NY Posts: 1,636 Real Name: Victor

jackievictor Senior Member Super Geek

I seen and heard enough on this issue. It's time to put ths one to rest. But, I am curious on Micheal's and Jim's opinion on the issue. __________________

Victor jackievictor View Public Profile Send a private message to jackievictor Find all posts by jackievictor Add jackievictor to Your Contacts #43 Yesterday, 03:55 PM

SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 1,833 Real Name: William

Senior Member Super Geek

I think all that's necessary has already been said. Any more is redundant, and speculative. If anyone still has questions, maybe it's time to take it up directly with the management.

Everyone knows who management is, so go to them. __________________

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #44 Yesterday, 03:57 PM Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 671 Real Name: Stan

RoyalOak Senior Member Veteran Geek

Thank You A.J., I both appreciate your compliment and enjoyed reading your thoughtful post as well. There were some real gems in your post that I feel are worthy of highlighting they are so important. Stan Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza Stan, I completely agree with your observations.

Consumers have the right to spend their dollars WHERE and HOW they wish. They have the right to be correctly informed in order to make those purchases. But like ALL industries, people make mistakes and/or misstatements. It's not some diabolical plot; just the way it is. Two people seeing the same event will process the information differently. Two people READING information will retain or interpret the data differently. Two people GIVEN the same information will write about it differently. Writing is at best VERY DIFFICULT. There is only words. It is impersonal. No emotion, no influx in speech, no facial expressions, only WORDS. Where some may see sarcasm, others will not. Where some see anger, others will not. Where some feel "attacked" other will not! Where some comprehend the written word, others will not. The words used are important as are their meaning. (That is why we should read the whole thread before we post, think before we react, be mindful of the limitations of the written word, and choose them wisely.) However, "some" of the intolerance comes from some "trolling", some make "accusations" not based on fact, and some get carried away with their emotions. Is this (Swiss/Swiss Made) a "new" problem? No, it started way back when the Swiss Industry in order to keep up with Japan decided to go full throttle into the Quartz/Digital marketplace. The "rules" did not change with the times (no pun intended). They were written before the full advent of quartz movements and where primarily intended to apply to mechanicals. However, the rulings and interpretation by "Swiss" courts have (in my worthless opinion) only muddled things. I'm a creature of logic. (It is self-evident from your post, and so am I that's why I enjoyed this post) So whether (referring to movements only) Swiss send their parts to Asia to assemble or Asia sends their parts to Swiss to assemble, logic for me says same/same. But that's quartz. My personal collection is 75% mechanical/auto. (My collection is at least 75% as well. I'm an old school purist who has been collecting wristwatches before the domination of quartz that began in the early 70's) Always has been and remains so. WHY? Because (at least in my situation) I know exactly where each movement was assembled and where the parts "typically" originate. As for encasing the movement, don't care as long as the "finished" product meets MY standards. Enjoyed your well thought out and reasonable post! RoyalOak View Public Profile Send a private message to RoyalOak Find all posts by RoyalOak Add RoyalOak to Your Contacts #45 Yesterday, 04:01 PM

Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 2,055 Real Name: Dave

icewolf64 Senior Member Super Geek

Really did not expect a response at all, Just glad the truth is out. Not real sure at this point I would believe any further response, I just know this that any further purchases are going to be based on the facts that I can be sure of and this is all I can be sure of is that #1 Swiss made means it has a swiss made movement, Not sure if the rest of the watch is truely swiss made. #2 Swiss means practically nothing except that a swiss movement manufacturer is having movements made in another country for this watch and can really be assured that the rest of the watch has nothing to do with swiss. I will base my decisions on buying any further watches from Invicta on this criteria which will have an impact on the price I am willing to pay. I won't say this will be my last post on the subject as this will come up again in the future from geeks that have not seen this however for right now I am done with venting, Any further issues I have about the subject I am now pursuing with Shopnbc and Invicta for misrepresentation. I don't expect I will get anywhere but will try. __________________

icewolf64 View Public Profile Send a private message to icewolf64 Find all posts by icewolf64 Add icewolf64 to Your Contacts #46 Yesterday, 04:02 PM

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 671 Real Name: Stan

RoyalOak Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit Stan...you may be new here, but I feel you have much to offer in the way of calm, insightful disscussion...................... Thank you Jay, your support is greatly appreciated. RoyalOak View Public Profile Send a private message to RoyalOak Find all posts by RoyalOak Add RoyalOak to Your Contacts #47 Yesterday, 04:05 PM Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Live in Hawaii on the island of Oahu Posts: 2,074 Real Name: Paul

socrates Senior Member Super Geek

Drop it, enough already! __________________

Dulce bellum inexpertis socrates View Public Profile Send a private message to socrates Send email to socrates Find all posts by socrates Add socrates to Your Contacts #48 Yesterday, 04:14 PM Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 267

Ed E Senior Member Senior Geek

These days, supply chains cross the world. Actually, it does not really matter where something is made or where parts & subassembies are made. Worldwide, production technique, QA and the resulting products themselves are improving constantly. However marketing is still catering to the public's old perceptions. Perceptions which have not caught up with the worldwide state of the art... that is in effect, what Eyal said. __________________

now I got 2 Ed E View Public Profile Send a private message to Ed E Find all posts by Ed E Add Ed E to Your Contacts #49 Yesterday, 04:15 PM

JJmoto

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Artesia N.M. Posts: 897 Real Name: Josh

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Lets just let it go guys. I think us getting any sort of response from Eyal is amazing and a step in the right direction if you ask me. Go buy a watch and be happy people! (It doesn't have to be a Invicta there are lots of other brands)

And another thing leave poor Jim out of it. He has no control on how Invicta labels

stuff. Put yourself in his shoes, he's stuck in the middle and nothing he could say would change a thing! JJmoto View Public Profile Send a private message to JJmoto Find all posts by JJmoto Add JJmoto to Your Contacts #50 Yesterday, 04:19 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,332 Real Name: Paul

heavyjumbo Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpyface I'm not happy with the response from Invicta, but I've been a high level consultant and sat in too many executive meetings to expect otherwise. It is nothing more than a shabby excuse for openly deceiving people. I might feel otherwise had the "explanation" been presented ahead of time, and if people on ShopNBC were not instructed to say Swiss = Swiss Made. But it was not. I tuned in last night for part of the show just to see how they were describing some of the watches. Mike said at one point "all the reserve line are Swiss Made and hand assembled". Turns out not to be true, but I don't expect them to change their descriptions right away, nor do I blame Mike or any of the ShopNBC hosts. They are simply repeating what they are told to say. I understand that. However, that's where we are and I don't think there is really anything to gained by asking Invicta (Eyal) for an additional statement. He didn't write that letter intending it to be the first in a series of letters on the subject, of that I am sure. And for some people, no matter what Eyal says, or how many times he says it, it won't ever be enough. Remember, no where in his letter does Eyal address the fact that in his watches Swiss has been said to be the same as Swiss Made. And that is the deception that a lot of people are upset about, which includes me, or course. So I don't think he's going to say any more about it. This obvious deception is not marketing spin either, as many, including Eyal, would have you believe. And all of a sudden a number of the Invicta defenders would have you believe they knew it all along and its just a little "marketing" slight of hand, I haven't seen any of them posting that information before this. So then, like the news reporters say, unless something new crops up, that's about it. I definitely want to thank all of those involved for sticking with the thread,

staying focused and eventually running the truth to ground. And that certainly includes all the moderators, especially Georgethewatchguy for keeping the thread open when many, many wanted it closed. Agree 100% __________________ Paul G. Boca Raton, FL Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3 Thread Tools

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#51 Yesterday, 04:38 PM Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: st. louis, missouri Posts: 582 Real Name: David Uthoff

uman Senior Member Veteran Geek

I guess that the pitch on shop nbc that all russian divers are swiss made is now very much in question. The rd is the only invicta in my collection with the dreaded "swiss" at the 6. I don't really care about this issue but michael davis and jim are just one testimonial call away from someone bringing this up on live tv. uman View Public Profile Send a private message to uman Send email to uman Find all posts by uman Add uman to Your Contacts #52 Yesterday, 04:56 PM

timeman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 4,772 Real Name: Jerry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

The only way for the misrepresenting of non Swiss made Invictas as Swiss made will need to come from Eyal. The people who work for Invicta and sell his watches on ShopNBC are told how to describe them. So if Eyal says all Invicta Reserve watches are Swiss made, they report all Invicta Reserve watches are Swiss made. The same applies to ShopNBC. Eyal tells ShopNBC the specs in each watch. If he says the watch is Swiss made, then ShopNBC reports they are Swiss made. As it looks right now and reading Eyal's post on the subject, I don't think this change will be happening any

time soon. __________________

timeman View Public Profile Send a private message to timeman Find all posts by timeman Add timeman to Your Contacts #53 Yesterday, 05:11 PM Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Fl Posts: 52 Real Name: Fred

Horologistics Member Member Geek

Guys, That was not a "response" by Eyal but rather a cleverly disguised CYA just in case someone with a litigious leaning decides to question the fine line between "marketing" and false advertising. Now that this has come to light I would prefer that Invicta be more transparent in their labeling. Continuous bashing and endless complaining will perhaps satisfy one's need to vent but it will do nothing to change Invicta's "marketing" practices. I believe that the only way to truly hold Invicta accountable is by voting with your wallet. This is what I intend to do. Horologistics View Public Profile Send a private message to Horologistics Find all posts by Horologistics Add Horologistics to Your Contacts #54 Yesterday, 05:14 PM

bichondaddy1057

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 2,086 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Super Geek

What??? Huh...???? What's ya'll a talkin'about here??? I's was busy all day yesterday fixin' da micrywaver oven and replacin' a terlet...okay...diggin' a new hole fer da outhouse...all da same crummy job!!! What did dat der Eyaleer talk about dat I dun's missed? Well..no matter...I's like's all o' my Invicter watches...they's all in ol' mason jars dat I dun lopped da top off and got's them yeller pads in da jar to help display my watches up on my shelf in da gaarage!!! I just buy my watches when I like's' da look of em...ain't worried about where dey dun's be's made at. Well...as always...Get 'er dun!!! That's what da wife kept tellin' me whilest I was complainin' about diggin' dat new hole yesterday!!!!

__________________

Larry in Spring, Tx bichondaddy1057 View Public Profile Send a private message to bichondaddy1057 Send email to bichondaddy1057 Find all posts by bichondaddy1057 Add bichondaddy1057 to Your Contacts #55 Yesterday, 05:16 PM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: orlando Posts: 256 Real Name: Cliff

alpha1603 Senior Member Senior Geek

enough is enough alpha1603 View Public Profile Send a private message to alpha1603 Find all posts by alpha1603 Add alpha1603 to Your Contacts #56 Yesterday, 05:24 PM Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Aliquippa Pa Posts: 832

CLEANS-HIGH Senior Member Veteran Geek

If you're satisfied with the response and with the watches, then Buy, If not, Don't, it's really that simple CLEANS-HIGH View Public Profile Send a private message to CLEANS-HIGH Find all posts by CLEANS-HIGH Add CLEANS-HIGH to Your Contacts #57 Yesterday, 05:31 PM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: colorado Posts: 1,040

MREXE Senior Member Super Geek

Here's the bottom line, WE want the truth.........it appears that other shop brands have no problem in letting us know............I am truely disturbed by the "Reserve line" being poluted............I for one, will crack the back and show pics..........their warranty is worthless when you consider a minimum of 6-10 weeks return. rediculous. another ploy, to get you to NOT use the warranty........I have dealt with othe companies, and no one comes close the Invictas' repair rate.............Im wondering, for those that want to return a mislabled watch, if Invicta will honor that request...........I have truely asian manufactured watches, Xoskeleton comes to mind. A hand was off, it was returned within a week...........Invicta, for all the time they have been in the America market, they seem not to give a damn about service...........they need to get it together state-wide, which is their major maket............ MREXE View Public Profile Send a private message to MREXE Find all posts by MREXE Add MREXE to Your Contacts #58 Yesterday, 07:53 PM

sofla24fan

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sofla...boynton beach Posts: 61 Real Name: jeffrey

Member Member Geek

hey fellow watchgeeks..wat is this poll in reference too...curious..please help...thks watchgeeks...have a nice day...later sofla24fan View Public Profile Send a private message to sofla24fan Find all posts by sofla24fan Add sofla24fan to Your Contacts #59 Yesterday, 08:31 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,047

GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by sofla24fan

hey fellow watchgeeks..wat is this poll in reference too...curious..please help...thks watchgeeks...have a nice day...later Read through the thread... It is stated through out the thread many,many times... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #60 Yesterday, 08:43 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 619

CHUCK WAGON Senior Member Veteran Geek

I dont care whether is says Swiss or Swiss Made. I just don't care. At long last does it REALLY matter? It's INVICTA not ROLEX or BREITLING....its assembly line watch making. I mean has everyone completely taken leave of their senses? Eyal isnt in business cuz he loves us, he wants to make money. Thats why he manufactures so

many units. I don't think he's a a bad businessman, in fact I think he's pretty smart. It's just that simple. If the watch looks good, is well built and can tell time I buy it. If I want something to leave to my children I go to a high end jeweler and buy a high end watch by a high end manufacturer and I own nine Invicta's. The difference is I fully understand Invicta's role in the watch industry and I don't get hung up on how much lume is on a dial or if the Chinese built my watch.....Sheesh.... CHUCK WAGON View Public Profile Send a private message to CHUCK WAGON Find all posts by CHUCK WAGON Add CHUCK WAGON to Your Contacts #61 Yesterday, 08:43 PM Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southeast Florida Posts: 143 Real Name: Marvin

I B Ticken Senior Member Senior Geek

Jeff, read post #26. Read the entire thread. __________________ "IT'S GOOD TO BE THE KING"---Mel Brooks, "History of the World, part 1" I B Ticken View Public Profile Send a private message to I B Ticken Find all posts by I B Ticken Add I B Ticken to Your Contacts #62 Yesterday, 08:54 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SF transplant to Sacramento, CA Posts: 229

mjd Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

assembled". Turns out not to be true, but I don't expect them to change their descriptions right away, nor do I blame Mike or any of the ShopNBC hosts. They are simply repeating what they are told to say. I understand that. However, that's where we are and I don't think there is really anything to gained by asking Invicta (Eyal) for an additional statement. He didn't write that letter intending it to be the first in a series of letters on the subject, of that I am sure. And for some people, no matter what Eyal says, or how many times he says it, it won't ever be enough. Remember, no where in his letter does Eyal address the fact that in his watches Swiss has been said to be the same as Swiss Made. And that is the deception that a lot of people are upset about, which includes me, or course. So I don't think he's going to say any more about it. This obvious deception is not marketing spin either, as many, including Eyal, would have you believe. And all of a sudden a number of the Invicta defenders would have you believe they knew it all along and its just a little "marketing" slight of hand, I haven't seen any of them posting that information before this. So then, like the news reporters say, unless something new crops up, that's about it. I definitely want to thank all of those involved for sticking with the thread, staying focused and eventually running the truth to ground. And that certainly includes all the moderators, especially Georgethewatchguy for keeping the thread open when many, many wanted it closed. My sentiments as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icewolf64 Really did not expect a response at all, Just glad the truth is out. Not real sure at this point I would believe any further response, I just know this that any further purchases are going to be based on the facts that I can be sure of and this is all I can be sure of is that #1 Swiss made means it has a swiss made movement, Not sure if the rest of the watch is truely swiss made. #2 Swiss means practically nothing except that a swiss movement manufacturer is having movements made in another country for this watch and can really be assured that the rest of the watch has nothing to do with swiss. I will base my decisions on buying any further watches from Invicta on this criteria which will have an impact on the price I am willing to pay. I won't say this will be my last post on the subject as this will come up again in the future from geeks that have not seen this however for right now I am done with venting,

Any further issues I have about the subject I am now pursuing with Shopnbc and Invicta for misrepresentation. I don't expect I will get anywhere but will try. XL font size = my emphasis.

Glad to hear. Seriously, Mr. Lalo stands accountable to the full extent of the law for misrepresenting his Reserve line as all Swiss Made. mjd View Public Profile Send a private message to mjd Send email to mjd Find all posts by mjd Add mjd to Your Contacts #63 Yesterday, 10:55 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: State of Aloha Posts: 147 Real Name: Patrick

nvstg808 Senior Member Senior Geek

I have been buying Invicta watches since the beginning. I am a Original Geek (OG) from the old forums. I appreciate Eyal's response, and I accept his explanation. I am an informed buyer, and I choose to buy Invicta watches based on my value. I fully understand the markings on the dial, and I do not have a problem with it. I will continue to buy Invicta watches, especially the ones that are Swiss Made. Again, I appreciate Eyal sending me a personal explanation, one that I already understood. Now bring me more Swiss Made SAS watches... __________________ Running on Hawaiian Time!! nvstg808 View Public Profile Send a private message to nvstg808 Find all posts by nvstg808 Add nvstg808 to Your Contacts #64 Yesterday, 11:28 PM

axmea? Junior Member New Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Stevenson Ranch, CA Posts: 7

I am fairly new to this forum and learned a lot about THE Topic from the thread that started it all. First, for some reason it deteriorated as it bashed those who share the same passion, interest and love for this addiction and hobby that what we all enjoy. I am hoping that this is not what this forum, that I recently joined, is all about. For

whatever it is worth, I buy my watches primarily because of how it looks, the movement/features behind the watches - chrono, day date, auto, quartz, auto, etc. and because I have a family to feed and a mortgage, how much the watch would cost. There are a lot of "realists" in this forum and recognize that you get what you pay for. I have come to realize that if I truly wanted a pure Swiss origine watch, that I would have to pay up for it and spend thousands of dollars on one watch. I choose not to because Invicta as well as other brands that supply our habit can satisfy my need with their wonderful designs at a cost that is reasonable for me and buy lot's of it. I know a lot of guys who despite having expensive brands use their Invicta's and other none Swiss brands more often because it simply looks good. I've got a co worker who wears his Breitlings but does not get the same attention that my Invicta's get when I wear to work. If it is made out of Swiss parts and pcs. overseen by a Swiss manufacturer's standard, I really would not care. At the same token, the Swiss industry are using this very issue as a means to protect themselves. They do not want to be thrown back to the days when they were almost wiped out of the planet by the quartz revolution in the 70's. The three W's in my life are now down to two when I got married.....Wine and Watches. Women used to be on the top spot axmea? View Public Profile Send a private message to axmea? Send email to axmea? Find all posts by axmea? Add axmea? to Your Contacts #65 Yesterday, 11:40 PM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 756

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

UPDATED As of 2am, CDT the votes of the Multiple Choice Poll are as follows: Out of a total of 194 votes 80 votes (41%) Are satisfied and don't need to hear anything further â&#x20AC;˘ â&#x20AC;˘

I'm satisfied with the response I'm satisfied, close this thread, beating a dead horse, not this again, who

cares....

114 votes (59%) would like to get more information on this. • • • •

Thank you all for your comments, keeping it Civil, and for your votes. The Results show that the majority of 59% would like to hear more on this matter! Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #66 Today, 02:22 AM

rjones1994 Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sanford, Florida Posts: 714 Real Name: BOB

So, what was the problem again? LOL rjones1994 View Public Profile Send a private message to rjones1994 Find all posts by rjones1994 Add rjones1994 to Your Contacts #67 Today, 03:50 AM

trav

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 684

Senior Member Veteran Geek

From EL post Quote:

hope that it can bring some level of clarity to this discussion Clarify what? All this did was toss a few more mirrors and some more smoke over it. Shady at best,criminal at worst.My decision is just not to buy Invicta,instead if i need a less expensive piece then SO or Android. Straight up honest folks with nothing to hide.

trav View Public Profile Find all posts by trav Add trav to Your Contacts #68 Today, 04:01 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: On the Puget Sound, WA Posts: 12,041 Real Name: Charlie

CharlieB Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Since the other thread was closed without Team Invicta making any further comments, do you feel satisfied with their answer regarding the use of "Swiss" on the dial of Chinese made watches? Invicta's Official Response here public multiple choice poll

UPDATED As of 06/07/2010 @ 2am, CDT the votes of the Multiple Choice Poll are as follows: Out of a total of 194 votes 80 votes (41%) Are satisfied and don't need to hear anything further • •

I'm satisfied with the response I'm satisfied, close this thread, beating a dead horse, not this again, who cares....

114 votes (59%) would like to get more information on this. • • • •

Thank you all for your comments, keeping it Civil, and for your votes.

The Results show that the majority of 59% would like to hear more on this matter! Ain't gonna happen. __________________

RIP Coach Wooden CharlieB View Public Profile Send a private message to CharlieB Find all posts by CharlieB Add CharlieB to Your Contacts #69 Today, 07:50 AM

FloridaGary

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 422 Real Name: Gary

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

one and the same. I knew Invicta was not a member of the Swiss Federation, but was led to believe they were voluntarily following the Swiss Made standards/definition, since members of the Swiss Federation can use just Swiss as their designation of a Swiss Made watch. I never had any reason to doubt their word, because the 2 Swiss Invicta I purchased were $330 (Bolt Chrono on SS Bracelet/Blue Sunray dial) and $380 (SAS GMT on SS Bracelet/Black Dial), so they were not suspicious "sweet heart" deals. Although I do very much care about both the movement, and meeting the Swiss Made standards when I purchase a watch, I respect everyone else's priorities, tastes, and right to select their watch purchases based upon there own personal buying criteria. I have sat on the sidelines, and read with great interest every one of these threads (that were eventually closed or remained open). I have only contributed to the extent of agreeing with self evident points, like Issac's "I just want to be a well informed buyer." After Eyal's response I think we are all more well informed then before this issue came up. The biggest problem I see here, now that we know all of the facts directly from Eyal, is many people's lack of tolerance of each other's watch purchasing priorities and points of view. In my relative short time here, I've made two observations: 1. For some reason the Invicta brand more than any other brand seems to be the "Lightning Rod" for disagreement that all too often leads to a disintegration of intelligent discussion, debate, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism turns into sniping, pot shots and the like; and 2. A lack of tolerance of differing views and opinions by two opposing factions on this forum. The one common thing I have read and observed is you pretty much see the same members on either side of an issue with Invicta discussion. There are some moderates, which I would love to name, but I do not want to leave anyone out. The veterans on this site know better than me who's who. Like Issac said, it is this simple all I want is to make informed buying decisions. I really hope that member's will either self regulate, or the Moderators will step in sooner, so intelligent debate doesn't disintegrate as I've seen too many times in the short time I've been here. Remember, we all have one major thing in common, and that is a real passion for watches! Like dog lovers, they all love their dogs, but everyone has a breed that they prefer over certain others. Yet when I'd go to a dog park there was always some comraderie among all dog owners, and a respect for a fellow dog lover. I for one would like to see more of that here! Stan I couldn't agree more and your observations are spot-on! I believe we all have to be reminded that we have a common interest....watches and as you said, we all have different criteria for our purchases and each should be respected for that. At the same time, I think all of us can understand the frustration that comes from company marketing efforts that bend the truth just enough to be legal. This may be why the Swiss Federation wants to change the standards since their reputation is on the line.

Great post, Stan. Gary __________________ Too many watches, not enough time. Rolex, Omega, Chase Durer, Poljot, Seiko, Orient, Invicta, Vostok Europe FloridaGary View Public Profile Send a private message to FloridaGary Send email to FloridaGary Find all posts by FloridaGary Add FloridaGary to Your Contacts #70 Today, 10:02 AM

kless13 Member Member Geek

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 66 Real Name: Ken

Quote:

were not suspicious "sweet heart" deals. Although I do very much care about both the movement, and meeting the Swiss Made standards when I purchase a watch, I respect everyone else's priorities, tastes, and right to select their watch purchases based upon there own personal buying criteria. I have sat on the sidelines, and read with great interest every one of these threads (that were eventually closed or remained open). I have only contributed to the extent of agreeing with self evident points, like Issac's "I just want to be a well informed buyer." After Eyal's response I think we are all more well informed then before this issue came up. The biggest problem I see here, now that we know all of the facts directly from Eyal, is many people's lack of tolerance of each other's watch purchasing priorities and points of view. In my relative short time here, I've made two observations: 1. For some reason the Invicta brand more than any other brand seems to be the "Lightning Rod" for disagreement that all too often leads to a disintegration of intelligent discussion, debate, and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism turns into sniping, pot shots and the like; and 2. A lack of tolerance of differing views and opinions by two opposing factions on this forum. The one common thing I have read and observed is you pretty much see the same members on either side of an issue with Invicta discussion. There are some moderates, which I would love to name, but I do not want to leave anyone out. The veterans on this site know better than me who's who. Like Issac said, it is this simple all I want is to make informed buying decisions. I really hope that member's will either self regulate, or the Moderators will step in sooner, so intelligent debate doesn't disintegrate as I've seen too many times in the short time I've been here. Remember, we all have one major thing in common, and that is a real passion for watches! Like dog lovers, they all love their dogs, but everyone has a breed that they prefer over certain others. Yet when I'd go to a dog park there was always some comraderie among all dog owners, and a respect for a fellow dog lover. I for one would like to see more of that here! Yes I agree with you as well. I'm one of those people who cares about both the movement, and meeting the Swiss Made standards when I purchase a watch. I care about whether the watch is Swiss or Swiss Made. I care to know the differences between the two, from the company that is representing the watches. And most of all, I care to be told the truth by the company representing the watches. Not too much to ask for IMO. kless13 View Public Profile Send a private message to kless13 Find all posts by kless13 Add kless13 to Your Contacts #71 Today, 10:23 AM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,831 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

I am satisfied with Eyal's answer .... he clearly told us that we can assume that an Invicta watch with just the word "Swiss" on the dial was manufactured in China, with a far east version of a Swiss parts movement. What more information do you want, what further clarification could be added to that? I am satisfied that he has come out an told us the truth, there is not really anything more for him to say on the matter ... Does NOT mean that I am happy about it! It doesn't really address all the times in the past that we were told that "Swiss" was the same as "Swiss Made" .... and all the times in the past that we were told during on air presentations that watches were Swiss made that just had the word "Swiss" on the dial. I can just only assume and hope that this practice will now be corrected. __________________ Fatal Error in REALITY.SYS .... Run BIG_BANG.EXE (Y/N)? WatchYaThink View Public Profile Send a private message to WatchYaThink Send email to WatchYaThink Find all posts by WatchYaThink Add WatchYaThink to Your Contacts #72 Today, 10:24 AM

Panda03Bear

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Silver Spring, MD. Posts: 7,686 Real Name: Adam

Senior Member True WatchGeek

evena little response is better than no response. and team invicta not responding is not a surprisea s it has alreayd been stated they would not be very active, if active at all. my take, time to move on. __________________

- Family, that's what's up - Black Eye Dye