Spring lake bo1

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 164

Spring Lake Bob Senior Member Senior Geek

My D-D Email is Genuine; There Must be a Logical Explaination!

Last week I sent an e-mail to Invicta and Dubois-Dupraz to inquire whether my Elite Speedway (which was indexing 20 sec. early in chrono mode) needed to be adjusted.

I just wanted to be sure it was faulty before sending it to Invicta Repairs.

Yesterday, I received an e-mail directly from Eric Metzger, Sales Deputy and J-Ph DuBois, Director General of Dubois-Dupraz which said, in part (and in French) "we have never delivered Dubois DĂŠpraz products to Invicta," and "we will be conducting research with our clients in order to check on (this)."

I have no doubt that this response is genuine and came from Dubois-Dupraz.

Further, it is consistent with the other e-mail from D-D's Chris Becker, which was posted in a previous thread. And now that these two have come to light, I'm sure there will be others.

Something's very wrong here. Invicta obviously was convinced the D-D modules were genuine; heck, they engraved "Dubois-Dupraz Movement" on the back of 1,800 watches! Yet, official correspondence from D-D disputes this. There could be a simple explanation...perhaps one department in Dubois-Dupraz isn't speaking with another.

Or they were purchased through an authorized third party.

So before we jump to conclusions, let's wait for an explanation from Invicta management. I certainly hope the D-D modules are genuine, but given the checkered history of the Speedway Elite, I'm not so sure.

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Renato Watches

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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

There were no third parties involved Eyal said numerous time the movements were purchased directly from DD. Fact is either the email is fake or customers were lied to plain and simple. After "Swiss made gate" I'm leaning to the latter. The fact that threads keep disappearing makes things look even worse. sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #3 Today, 10:54 AM

Azel88

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: chicago Posts: 1,668

Senior Member Super Geek

Oh Boy here we go again Azel88 View Public Profile Send a private message to Azel88 Find all posts by Azel88 Add Azel88 to Your Contacts #4 Today, 10:56 AM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: from ny live in g.a Posts: 3,549

BIGNOIZE Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by azel88 oh boy here we go again

rofl! Not again! Stop the world i wanna get off! __________________ L.T.R LEARN, TEACH, REPEAT BIGNOIZE View Public Profile Send a private message to BIGNOIZE Find all posts by BIGNOIZE Add BIGNOIZE to Your Contacts #5 Today, 11:02 AM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,857 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Okay, now that's very interesting, I'm really curious to see what develops from this .... __________________ Fatal Error in REALITY.SYS .... Run BIG_BANG.EXE (Y/N)?

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baker.bjs Junior Member Member Geek

Didn't this thread get locked and deleted several times already? baker.bjs View Public Profile Send a private message to baker.bjs Find all posts by baker.bjs Add baker.bjs to Your Contacts

#7 Today, 11:11 AM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: STATEN ISLAND / NEW YORK CITY Posts: 1,121 Real Name: George J

WATCHURSELF Senior Member Super Geek

And so will this one just wait!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by baker.bjs Didn't this thread get locked and deleted several times already? __________________

George J WATCHURSELF View Public Profile Send a private message to WATCHURSELF Send email to WATCHURSELF Find all posts by WATCHURSELF Add WATCHURSELF to Your Contacts #8 Today, 11:11 AM

reliefcp Senior Member Master WatchGeek

I believe you. __________________

Join Date: May 2009 Location: Everett Wa. Posts: 2,746 Real Name: C.J.

reliefcp View Public Profile Send a private message to reliefcp Find all posts by reliefcp Add reliefcp to Your Contacts #9 Today, 11:16 AM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,857 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by baker.bjs Didn't this thread get locked and deleted several times already?

WHY would that be the case?? This is the first thread I've seen on this, but others may have been deleted before I saw them. But, the OP is just reporting on an email he received from D-D, and is not saying anything negative about anyone, and is in fact just asking for a logical explanation.

Hopefully someone has, or will find the answer, and will post it here. __________________ Fatal Error in REALITY.SYS .... Run BIG_BANG.EXE (Y/N)?

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GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by baker.bjs Didn't this thread get locked and deleted several times already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by WATCHURSELF

And so will this one just wait!!!

It depends where you guys go with it... Unnecessary posts or comments, to bump it up, will grant your wish... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #11 Today, 11:19 AM

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 26

baker.bjs Junior Member Member Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink WHY would that be the case?? This is the first thread I've seen on this, but others may have been deleted before I saw them. But, the OP is just reporting on an email he received from D-D, and is not saying anything negative about anyone, and is in fact just asking for a logical explanation.

Hopefully someone has, or will find the answer, and will post it here.

There have been several threads just like this that have been locked and shortly after deleted. I have no idea why. baker.bjs View Public Profile Send a private message to baker.bjs Find all posts by baker.bjs Add baker.bjs to Your Contacts #12 Today, 11:23 AM Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA Posts: 1,298 Real Name: Eric.

emathieu Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by baker.bjs Didn't this thread get locked and deleted several times already?

Guys, I don't think you get what Bob is saying - he's not talking about the other email that began on another forum and was being questioned as to whether it was real or not. He actually purchased this watch, and has posted previously that his chrono hand was 20 seconds off. He has contacted DD and got a very similar response that they never sold any movements to Invicta.

Let's not get this one locked down so we can hopefully get some semblance of an

official response as to what it really up with this whole situation. __________________ Eric. emathieu View Public Profile Send a private message to emathieu Find all posts by emathieu Add emathieu to Your Contacts #13 Today, 11:41 AM

zulumack

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CT Posts: 291 Real Name: john

Senior Member Senior Geek

right so let,s sloow down and read what is going on. this person has a dd and a email from DD so let,s start from there. and yes I have 153/300 two tone with the hour hand not right. zulumack View Public Profile Send a private message to zulumack Find all posts by zulumack Add zulumack to Your Contacts #14 Today, 11:43 AM

buddy2 Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NE Wisconsin Posts: 219 Real Name: Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spring Lake Bob Last week I sent an e-mail to Invicta and Dubois-Dupraz to inquire whether my Elite Speedway (which was indexing 20 sec. early in chrono mode) needed to be adjusted. I just wanted to be sure it was faulty before sending it to Invicta Repairs.

Yesterday, I received an e-mail directly from Eric Metzger, Sales Deputy and J-Ph DuBois, Director General of Dubois-Dupraz which said, in part (and in French) "we have never delivered Dubois DĂŠpraz products to Invicta," and "we will be conducting research with our clients in order to check on (this)."

I have no doubt that this response is genuine and came from Dubois-Dupraz.

Further, it is consistent with the other e-mail from D-D's Chris Becker, which was posted in a previous thread. And now that these two have come to light, I'm sure there will be others.

Something's very wrong here. Invicta obviously was convinced the D-D modules were genuine; heck, they engraved "Dubois-Dupraz Movement" on the back of 1,800 watches! Yet, official correspondence from D-D disputes this. There could be a simple explanation...perhaps one department in Dubois-Dupraz isn't speaking with another. Or they were purchased through an authorized third party.

So before we jump to conclusions, let's wait for an explanation from Invicta management. I certainly hope the D-D modules are genuine, but givn the checkered history of the Speedway Elite, I'm not so sure.

All these kinds of threads are shaking my trust in Invicta. I'm not accusing them of knowingly deceiving us,but it's still a matter of QC. JMO buddy2 View Public Profile Send a private message to buddy2 Find all posts by buddy2 Add buddy2 to Your Contacts #15 Today, 11:45 AM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,449

watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

It will be interesting to hear what D-D says. Please keep it clean and wait for the response. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #16 Today, 11:46 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 809

Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv It will be interesting to hear what D-D says. Please keep it clean and wait for the response. or It will be interesting to hear what EYAL says. Please keep it clean and wait for the response.

Time Bandit View Public Profile Send a private message to Time Bandit Send email to Time Bandit Find all posts by Time Bandit Add Time Bandit to Your Contacts #17 Today, 11:49 AM Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA but my heart is still in NOLA Posts: 1,298 Real Name: Eric.

emathieu Senior Member Super Geek

Thanks to whomever deleted the attempt at an inflammatory post. Let's keep this one clean. __________________ Eric. emathieu View Public Profile Send a private message to emathieu Find all posts by emathieu Add emathieu to Your Contacts #18 Today, 12:10 PM Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 164

Spring Lake Bob Senior Member Senior Geek

Having received several requests to post this, here is the e-mail I received from D-D. I had a friend translate for me before I started the thread.

Cher Monsieur Nous sommes très surpris de vous lire car nous n’avons jamais livrés de produits Dubois Dépraz à la Société INVICTA et ne savons pas de quoi vous parlez !

Dubois Dépraz vend ses produits aux grandes marques Suisses, soit des complications fiables et de qualité, des produits réputés dans le monde entier.

Nous allons mener des recherches chez nos clients afin de contrôler vos allégations.

En vous remerciant d’avance pour vos informations, nous vous prions d’agréer, Monsieur, nos salutations les meilleures.

J-Ph DUBOIS Eric Metzger Directeur Général Adjoint au service des ventes

Dubois Dépraz SA CH 1345 Le Lieu /Suisse Tél : +41 21 841 15 51 Fax: +41 21 841 18 22 E mail : emetzger@dubois-depraz.ch http/: www.dubois-depraz.ch avant d'imprimer, pensez à l'environnement Spring Lake Bob View Public Profile Send a private message to Spring Lake Bob Find all posts by Spring Lake Bob Add Spring Lake Bob to Your Contacts #19 Today, 12:18 PM

watchnut62 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,556 Real Name: Steve

I would love to hear both sides to this before I venture an opinion. Someone must have the answer on how DD's modules wound up in the watch without DD not giving them to Invicta. Perhaps someone stating he was from DD sold them to Invicta.It is a mystery that somebody will eventually have to clear up. __________________ So many watches, so little time (and money). watchnut62 View Public Profile Send a private message to watchnut62 Find all posts by watchnut62 Add watchnut62 to Your Contacts

#20 Today, 12:19 PM Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 104

knapplink Senior Member Senior Geek

Translation: We very surprised to read yourself for we never delivered products Dubois DĂŠpraz to the Corporation INVICTA and do not let us know any what speak you!

Dubois DĂŠpraz sells its products to the big Swiss brands, is reliable complications and of quality, renowned products in the entire world.

We will take research with our customers in order to check your allegations.

While thanking you in advance for your information, we ask yourself to accept, Mister, our greetings the better ones. knapplink View Public Profile Send a private message to knapplink Find all posts by knapplink Add knapplink to Your Contacts #21 Today, 12:23 PM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,610 Real Name: Doug

Ronko Man Senior Member Super Geek

Agreed before pointing any fingers let's get all accurate info & then go from there?

I also have this in silver no. 640/800 which is a replacement for my 1st no. 461/800.

I expect we all will get some type of response in the very near future. __________________

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vbobdriveguy Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by knapplink Translation: We very surprised to read yourself for we never delivered products Dubois DĂŠpraz to the Corporation INVICTA and do not let us know any what speak you!

Dubois DĂŠpraz sells its products to the big Swiss brands, is reliable complications and of quality, renowned products in the entire world.

We will take research with our customers in order to check your allegations.

While thanking you in advance for your information, we ask yourself to accept, Mister, our greetings the better ones.

Gotta love litteral translations! LOL __________________

Jay

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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

It's not unusual to purchase movements from third parties. Jim has mentioned this frequently on air that manufacturers have to go into the aftermarket in order to acquire movements that are scarce. Even if Invicta didn't buy them directly from DD does not mean that aren't the real deal. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

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watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

Now it's on Invicta to repond ASAP. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #25 Today, 12:53 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,449

watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not unusual to purchase movements from third parties. Jim has mentioned this frequently on air that manufacturers have to go into the aftermarket in order to acquire movements that are scarce. Even if Invicta didn't buy them directly from DD does not mean that aren't the real deal.

The only thing about aftermarket is they could be counterfeit. In the auto industry aftermarket isn't an original dealer part. Could be the reason for the module defects as stated by Mike. I'm not saying there not the real thing. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away

Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Van Nuys, CA Posts: 4,244

vbobdriveguy Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not unusual to purchase movements from third parties. Jim has mentioned this frequently on air that manufacturers have to go into the aftermarket in order to acquire movements that are scarce. Even if Invicta didn't buy them directly from DD does not mean that aren't the real deal.

At last. The voice of reason! Thank you Brad. To everyone else, I just think that we need to give this some time to find out what's going on before anyone jumps to conclusions. Not saying anything either way, just give it time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv The only thing about aftermarket is they could be counterfeit. In the auto industry aftermarket isn't an original dealer part. Could be the reason for the module defects as stated by Mike.

A valid point, but, as I understand it, it is also quite possible to buy genuine and quality movements from a third party. __________________

Jay

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Add vbobdriveguy to Your Contacts #27 Today, 12:58 PM

emptypockets

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: san bernardino calif Posts: 30 Real Name: rod

Member Member Geek

this is starting to look like maybe eyal was duped into thinking he was dealing with dd and maybe these are not genuine dd movements. it was with much regret that i returned silvertone #678/800. ( to a blackjack player like me haveing the only three numbers to add up to 21 on a watch was quite a suprise.6+7+8=21) hope this gets sorted out. im still buying watches, invictas included, as i feel confused not betrayed. this could have happened to any company getting such a movement for the first time. __________________

"Time is a Thief" emptypockets View Public Profile Send a private message to emptypockets Find all posts by emptypockets Add emptypockets to Your Contacts #28 Today, 12:58 PM

My Watch

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Az Posts: 705 Real Name: Ken

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Something mighty fishy in Denmark My Watch View Public Profile Send a private message to My Watch Send email to My Watch Find all posts by My Watch Add My Watch to Your Contacts #29 Today, 12:59 PM Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 265

ace3han Senior Member Senior Geek

This has been my very first high priced (for me) watch purchase and it was all based upon the movement. ace3han View Public Profile Send a private message to ace3han Send email to ace3han Find all posts by ace3han Add ace3han to Your Contacts #30 Today, 01:02 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,449

watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

Remember lets keep it clean. I agree those that purchased this watch really are owed a deeply and honest to the point response by none other the CEO. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #31 Today, 01:04 PM Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 265

ace3han Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not unusual to purchase movements from third parties. Jim has mentioned this frequently on air that manufacturers have to go into the aftermarket in order to acquire movements that are scarce. Even if Invicta didn't buy them directly from DD does not mean that aren't the real deal.

Yes but what happens if the movement need repair. Repairing DD modules can be very expensive. If Invicta did not buy it directly from DD then they can not avail of warranties from the manufacturer. At least that is what I know if you buy from third parties. So will Invicta absorb the cost of repair or will they pass it onto the consumer?

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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by ace3han Yes but what happens if the movement need repair. Repairing DD modules can be very expensive. If Invicta did not buy it directly from DD then they can not avail of warranties from the manufacturer. At least that is what I know if you buy from third parties. So will Invicta absorb the cost of repair or will they pass it onto the consumer?

Given the watch if from the Reserve line and comes with a 5 year warranty, Invicata would be responsible for the movement no matter the source. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

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#33 Today, 01:07 PM Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Van Nuys, CA Posts: 4,244

vbobdriveguy Senior Member Master WatchGeek

I would think that the question to be asked (and hopefully answered) is does DD use any authorized distributors. If so, then the movements could be purchased from someone other than DD (a distributor - which would explain why DD doesn't know anything about this) and still be under factory warranty. __________________

Jay

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emptypockets Member Member Geek

Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: san bernardino calif Posts: 30 Real Name: rod

i just reread mikes 5/27 sticky it states thateyal told him dd was working with them on a case by case basis to repair the movements __________________

"Time is a Thief" emptypockets View Public Profile Send a private message to emptypockets

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GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Originally Posted by ace3han Yes but what happens if the movement need repair. Repairing DD modules can be very expensive. If Invicta did not buy it directly from DD then they can not avail of warranties from the manufacturer. At least that is what I know if you buy from third parties. So will Invicta absorb the cost of repair or will they pass it onto the consumer?

So far this is only one assumption... If it turns out to be true It would be a good question to ask Invicta... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #36 Today, 01:09 PM

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watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

I think if at all possible and I know a lot have so much to say but maybe we should leave this here and the next post be from Eyal. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #37 Today, 01:11 PM

WatchYaThink

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Posts: 2,857 Real Name: Larry

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Please let's not go jumping to conclusions and engaging in speculation. The ONLY thing we know is that this one sales person at D-D was not aware of a sale of movements to Invicta. There are many perfectly innocent and benign explanations of why that might be the case. We all know that the "Major Swiss Names" are not all that happy with Invicta, Eyal admits that fact himself with glee. It would not be hard at all to believe that Invicta went through a third party in order to obtain these movements, and it would also not be hard to believe that they would want to not be advertising that source. We should all be thankful that Eyal gave us the chance to own a watch with that movement at an affordable price that would have otherwise been thousands of dollars more.

So, let's just keep cool and give Eyal the benefit of the doubt until more facts are made available and not be jumping to conclusions. __________________ Fatal Error in REALITY.SYS .... Run BIG_BANG.EXE (Y/N)?

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Time Bandit Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink Please let's not go jumping to conclusions and engaging in speculation. The ONLY thing we know is that this one sales person at D-D was not aware of a sale of movements to Invicta.

But what about this Quote:

Originally Posted by jskelton He has had many conference calls with the folks at D-D and they are jointly looking into the issue. Invicta had several large scale projects in the works with D-D that are now ON HOLD until Eyal sees that D-D can take care of this issue.

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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback It's not unusual to purchase movements from third parties. Jim has mentioned this frequently on air that manufacturers have to go into the aftermarket in order to acquire movements that are scarce. Even if Invicta didn't buy them directly from DD does not mean that aren't the real deal. thing is Eyal said multiple time on air that the movements were purchased directly from DD.. There is no third party involved.... sunaru View Public Profile

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sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbobdriveguy I would think that the question to be asked (and hopefully answered) is does DD use any authorized distributors. If so, then the movements could be purchased from someone other than DD (a distributor - which would explain why DD doesn't know anything about this) and still be under factory warranty. customers were told on air the movements were bought directly from DD. If DD has not clur about the transaction what does that tell you??? sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #41 Today, 01:26 PM Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 164

Spring Lake Bob Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunaru customers were told on air the movements were bought directly from DD. If DD has not clur about the transaction what does that tell you???

Perhaps that D-D has a communication problem. Let's wait to hear Invicta's response.

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#42 Today, 01:34 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,449

watchluv Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv I think if at all possible and I know a lot have so much to say but maybe we should leave this here and the next post be from Eyal.

I didn't think this would work. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #43 Today, 01:39 PM Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,103

GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv I think if at all possible and I know a lot have so much to say but maybe we should leave this here and the next post be from Eyal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv I didn't think this would work.

I think this is a good idea... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG