Watchgeek responses to the eyal lalo statement about invicta and dubois dupraz

karns944

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 201

Senior Member Senior Geek

Wow, would we all be happy if Invicta just put out a statment saying that they were just out to screw us???

People would STILL think something was strange.

I don't think they set out to screw us or NE1.

Can't we all just see that it was poor QC and accept it and MOVE ON! karns944 View Public Profile Send a private message to karns944 Find all posts by karns944 Add karns944 to Your Contacts #127 06-26-2010, 05:53 PM

BadMax

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 943 Real Name: Michael

Well thank goodness, finally a response. It took a little longer than I would have hoped but better late than never I think this reply wraps things up nicely BadMax View Public Profile Send a private message to BadMax Find all posts by BadMax Add BadMax to Your Contacts #128 06-26-2010, 06:42 PM

bwag829

Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: West Springfield, MA Posts: 2,250 Real Name: Bill

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by karns944 Wow, would we all be happy if Invicta just put out a statment saying that they were just out to screw us???

People would STILL think something was strange.

I don't think they set out to screw us or NE1.

Can't we all just see that it was poor QC and accept it and MOVE ON! Not on the heels of the Swiss / Swiss Made mess. Nope it is just another example of Invicta sayng whatever it takes to move product. Their credibility is shot right now. IMO bwag829 View Public Profile Send a private message to bwag829 Find all posts by bwag829 Add bwag829 to Your Contacts #129 06-26-2010, 06:54 PM

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,585

watchluv

Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell3 Personally I think the whole thing is tragic!

You have Invicta, who make some really fantastic watches but is now the laughing stock of the watch world. This is just more ammunition for a Swiss watch industry that doesn't like them.

You have DD, the famed watch house the just got a big black eye by being associated with Invicta and not knowing where there product ends up.

Then there are the customer that bought the watches. These should be real collectors items bought at a great price and (IMHO) wont be worth anything because of this mess.

Not to mention the pending service issues.

The whole thing is sad for what should have been a wonderful watch.

That's Just My Humble Opinion I have to agree that these watches will be worthless as they are Invicta's largest mistakes that won't be forgotten. It's really a shame Invicta didn't make this watch without problems. __________________ Time to Watch as Time Passes Away watchluv View Public Profile Send a private message to watchluv Find all posts by watchluv Add watchluv to Your Contacts #130 06-26-2010, 07:14 PM

nycruza Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,468 Real Name: A.J.

I would have to say the laughing stock are those that tried to make this more then it was (unsubstantiated rumors, theories, speculation, etc.).

Having had the watch appraised early on (that's why I was POSTIVE of it authenticity) at/by reliable and highly qualified dealers, I can assure you no one in the REAL WORLD is laughing at Invicta or THIS particular product (except BLOGGERS).

What service issues! It was stated long ago that if there is a problem OR you THINK there is a problem, contact Rebecca and send it in OR return to SNBC for refund (and they (SNBC) also refunded the initial shipping and for those that asked received a prepaid UPS sticker).

Personally, when I received the first one in an unsatisfactory condition, I immediately called SNBC got a replacement at the TTV price and AFTER it was received returned the original.

NO PROBLEMS; NO PAIN! The replacement has been working flawlessly since it's arrival almost 2 months. In the UNLIKELY event their is a problem in the future (5 years) I am confident Invicta will correct the problem to my satisfaction.

That's MHO. Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell3 Personally I think the whole thing is tragic!

You have Invicta, who make some really fantastic watches but is now the laughing stock of the watch world. This is just more ammunition for a Swiss watch industry that doesn't like them.

You have DD, the famed watch house the just got a big black eye by being associated with Invicta and not knowing where there product ends up.

Then there are the customer that bought the watches. These should be real collectors items bought at a great price and (IMHO) wont be worth anything because of this mess.

Not to mention the pending service issues.

The whole thing is sad for what should have been a wonderful watch.

That's Just My Humble Opinion __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #131 06-26-2010, 08:04 PM

SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,162 Real Name: William

Senior Member Super Geek

I missed being able to order one of the original DD Speedways.

I was in the NBZ. I have no problem ordering one right now, and as soon as someone shows me where to get one, I'm on it.

For those who had a negative experience, my condolences. For those who got theirs fixed, good on you.

For those who had no problem at all, right on!!

For those who don't want one, more for me!! __________________

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #132 06-26-2010, 08:09 PM

Spring Lake Bob

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Spring Lake, NJ Posts: 223 Real Name: Robert

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by watchluv I have to agree that these watches will be worthless as they are Invicta's largest mistakes that won't be forgotten. It's really a shame Invicta didn't make this watch without problems.

Excuse me, but why in the world would anyone buy an Invicta -- ANY Invicta -- as an "investment?" I buy Invictas to wear them and enjoy them. No other reason. And when I get a "good" one, I'm pleasantly surprised.

I kept my Speedway, (which is now in Week 3 of the repair cycle) because I like the look & feel of the watch and smoothness of the movement. No other reason.

I have had big problems with the way this fiasco was handled from start to finish, but not because it's affecting the Speedway's investment value!

Spring Lake Bob View Public Profile Send a private message to Spring Lake Bob Find all posts by Spring Lake Bob Add Spring Lake Bob to Your Contacts #133 06-26-2010, 08:25 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

I don't buy any watch as an investment, except maybe solid 18k gold ones...

Only because of the price of Gold right now... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #134 06-26-2010, 08:48 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Lets keep this Thread on topic! __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #135 06-26-2010, 09:12 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time Bandit Sorry George, but that's funny right there.

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

I'm just trying to lighten it up here, a little bit... __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #136 06-26-2010, 09:52 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NYC Burbs Posts: 1,240 Real Name: Ian

MessalineApghar Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tandi IMHO you hit the nail on the head. DD has lost a lot of credibility with me, either they were bought off or did not tell the truth to begin with. Either way their rep with me just went down the drain.

Tandi not single-ing you out for any reason other then you're the most recent of these similar posts. it's entirely possable Chris was out of the loop and unaware of a purchase contract, if it went between DD-EUROPE and either Invicta or Invicta's Subcontractor. it's NOT necessarily a lie

or other deception and agreeing that the movements were CORRECTLY PROCURED is not selling out if it's true.

From out here, we have no way to know for sure, so we either have to accept it at face value and move on, or adhere to the less likely idea that DD , a premiere movement company, found themselves looking at SO much money in new contracts that they couldn't say no to legitimatizing "grey" sourced movements. from everything i've seen & heard, DD has more demand then they have capacity , which means to me, MORE contracts doesn't mean more $ to them, at least in the short term, just longer wait times for all. __________________ If you wanna run cool, yes, if you wanna run cool, you've got to run on heavy heavy fuel Dire Straits MessalineApghar View Public Profile Send a private message to MessalineApghar Send email to MessalineApghar Find all posts by MessalineApghar Add MessalineApghar to Your Contacts #137 06-26-2010, 09:54 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NYC Burbs Posts: 1,240 Real Name: Ian

MessalineApghar Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeTheWatchGuy I'm just trying to lighten it up here, a little bit...

I dunno G, 18k Solid Watches can't be all THAT light. __________________ If you wanna run cool, yes, if you wanna run cool, you've got to run on heavy heavy fuel Dire Straits MessalineApghar View Public Profile Send a private message to MessalineApghar Send email to MessalineApghar Find all posts by MessalineApghar

Add MessalineApghar to Your Contacts #138 06-26-2010, 10:34 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MessalineApghar I dunno G, 18k Solid Watches can't be all THAT light.

True, I guess... LMAO... __________________

I'm just trying to keep this thread open!

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #139 06-26-2010, 11:15 PM

Warrior Rider

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Peoria,Arizona Posts: 250 Real Name: Bob

Senior Member Senior Geek

I think I'm happy with the statements but is that saying that the 1st communication from Mr. Becker was false & they have been dealing with Invicta all along?? So the 2nd statement negates the 1st one correct or vice versa?? If thats the case then why is Mr. Becker making any statements at all because it sounds as if he may be somewhat confused on the truth?

Just my opinion, it really doesn't matter anyway I think everyone knew what the final outcome would be!!

Warrior Rider View Public Profile Send a private message to Warrior Rider Find all posts by Warrior Rider Add Warrior Rider to Your Contacts #140 06-26-2010, 11:20 PM Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NYC Burbs Posts: 1,240 Real Name: Ian

MessalineApghar Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Rider I think I'm happy with the statements but is that saying that the 1st communication from Mr. Becker was false & they have been dealing with Invicta all along?? So the 2nd statement negates the 1st one correct or vice versa?? If thats the case then why is Mr. Becker making any statements at all because it sounds as if he may be somewhat confused on the truth? Just my opinion, it really doesn't matter anyway I think everyone knew what the final outcome would be!!

What I get from it , is that chris said "I don't think we deal with invicta" goes back to corporate and finds out "yes we deal with invicta" but that's just my opinion. __________________ If you wanna run cool, yes, if you wanna run cool, you've got to run on heavy heavy fuel -

Dire Straits MessalineApghar View Public Profile Send a private message to MessalineApghar Send email to MessalineApghar Find all posts by MessalineApghar Add MessalineApghar to Your Contacts #141 06-26-2010, 11:41 PM

Warrior Rider

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Peoria,Arizona Posts: 250 Real Name: Bob

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MessalineApghar What I get from it , is that chris said "I don't think we deal with invicta" goes back to corporate and finds out "yes we deal with invicta" but that's just my opinion.

I don't know but the letter I read from Becker he doesn't say I don't think we deal with Invicta he say's "we have never dealt with Invicta as a customer & have never sold them any movements" but honestly does it really matter? The only person who really knows what happened is the Big Guy in the Sky & I'm sure his plate is pretty full with real important stuff & he doesn't want to have to deal with this Debacle with DD & Invicta!!

Warrior Rider View Public Profile Send a private message to Warrior Rider Find all posts by Warrior Rider Add Warrior Rider to Your Contacts #142 06-26-2010, 11:45 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

I believe the new OFFICIAL Statement clarifies all your concerns! __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts #143 06-27-2010, 01:30 AM

me 1959 Member Member Geek

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 67

thanks jim i appreciate the profesional response i love invicta time pieces i think thet make a very good time piece they havnt been in bussiness as long as they have for nothing have a great day me 1959 View Public Profile Send a private message to me 1959 Find all posts by me 1959 Add me 1959 to Your Contacts #144 06-27-2010, 02:36 AM

mojo8

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 874 Real Name: Chris S.

Senior Member Veteran Geek

IMO The statement puts one thing aside that should never have been a concern in the first place and I am thankfull for that . However all you people who say it's over and lets move on are in my opinion looking through rose colored glasses ... this issue is bigger to the actual purchasers of this peice then the geeks who say they have no dog in this fight !!

My problem is again a watch gets passed on to the consumer which is obviously flawed and no compensation is given to the buyer ... it's always return or repair and wait 15 weeks for a watch that you are making payments on to make it back to you and hope all is fine after that !!

Where is the true I am sorry letter in the box of the returned watch or even a simple rebate check for our trouble , or a coupon for a future Invicta purchase ???

I mean I sat on the phone with my Norton antivirus protection for 1 1/2 hrs and they weren't even at fault , I just needed an updated software version and they gave me an additional 30 days of coverage for free for me sitting on the phone .

Seems to me every issue with Invicta is just , like it or lump it ... I sent the watch in for repair before the DD issue even came to light ... so the statement only confirms what is in the watch and what I should have received in the first place nothing more !!!!

It does nothing to compensate the inconvenience of no watch or money that could have been put to use elsewhere !!

I know every geek will not all be satisfied by this statement it can't be done , and I have now become leary of any Invicta presentations , it will take a long while before my dollars go into Eyals pockets in the future !!

I hope this post is passed on to him and he steps up and compensates the buyers of this watch that were defective and choose to get it repaired . Afterall we are the big loosers ...

Just food for thought .....

Rock on my fellow Geeks ....

MOJO8

__________________

mojo8 View Public Profile Send a private message to mojo8 Find all posts by mojo8 Add mojo8 to Your Contacts #145 06-27-2010, 04:49 AM Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tempe, suburb of Phoenix Posts: 20,022

wave3214 Senior Member True WatchGeek

Glad it was issued. Glad it covered all the points. Glad its over now and we can more onto other things. No doubt it was written by corporate attorneys and it was well done. Thanks to all involved. Next topic. __________________

wave3214 View Public Profile Send a private message to wave3214

Find all posts by wave3214 Add wave3214 to Your Contacts #146 06-27-2010, 07:15 AM Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,109

KOKONUTZ Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave3214 Glad it was issued. Glad it covered all the points. Glad its over now and we can more onto other things. No doubt it was written by corporate attorneys and it was well done. Thanks to all involved. Next topic.

Don't know about well done, but yes, done!

KOKONUTZ View Public Profile Send a private message to KOKONUTZ Find all posts by KOKONUTZ Add KOKONUTZ to Your Contacts #147 06-27-2010, 07:18 AM

mrspa Senior Member Super Geek

Thanks for the update Jim and following through as always.

Dave mrspa View Public Profile Send a private message to mrspa Find all posts by mrspa Add mrspa to Your Contacts #148

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: DeKalb IL. Posts: 1,054 Real Name: Dave Newby

06-27-2010, 07:34 AM

SeaVulture

Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,162 Real Name: William

Senior Member Super Geek

I believe that if we simply READ the warranty that came with our watches, we'll see exactly WHAT the obligation of the manufacturer IS, IF anything is found wrong with the items manufacture.

Usually, it states that the item will be replaced free of charge, and in the case of ShopNBC, will be replaced in the first 30 days without question.

So, what exactly would ANYONE expect past that?

If you're not satisfied with the product send it back.

If you want it fixed, be patient. __________________

Welcome to The Invicta Reserve SubAqua Venom Valgrange A07.211 Automatic WatchGeek Registry! http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=90044 SeaVulture View Public Profile Send a private message to SeaVulture Find all posts by SeaVulture Add SeaVulture to Your Contacts #149 06-27-2010, 07:42 AM

hitch Senior Member

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 268

Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by MessalineApghar ...from everything i've seen & heard, DD has more demand then they have capacity , which means to me, MORE contracts doesn't mean more $ to them, at least in the short term, just longer wait times for all.

I agree. From pictures of the dd module posted by mr horology in another thread one can see the utter beauty and complexity of the module attached to a handsome ETA engine. Add all that to its flawless operation and its easy to see why its in demand. Im sure it takes significant effort and time to build this quality product. hitch View Public Profile Send a private message to hitch Send email to hitch Find all posts by hitch Add hitch to Your Contacts #150 06-27-2010, 07:52 AM

watchnut62 Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,635 Real Name: Steve

This issue was a disaster from the beginning. This will continue to be a disaster until it is finally forgotten about. Anyone who bought one hopefully, will get their watch replaced or repaired at no cost (shipping included). There will never be an explanation that everyone will agree is acceptable. I didnt purchase this watch so as far as my spending over 1,300.00 on a watch (genuine or fake) isnt an issue. However it does go back to my other Invicta watches.

I no longer trust the company and I just cant get myself to buy another one of their products. I'm sure Invicta will be upset with that They could care less. Which is another reason why I won't buy Invicta again. There are at least 3 other companies that do care. They will be the ones to get my business. All those who continue to purchase from them, I hope you dont have problems and that there are no more issues to face in the future. If some do crop up and you get burned I feel sorry for you but it was your decision.

Best of luck to everyone __________________ So many watches, so little time (and money).

supercool70001

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 14

Junior Member New Geek

I wanted to compare this statement to the previous email response from DD but I can't locate the tread. Has it been removed? supercool70001 View Public Profile Send a private message to supercool70001 Find all posts by supercool70001 Add supercool70001 to Your Contacts #152 06-27-2010, 09:34 AM

Spring Lake Bob

Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Spring Lake, NJ Posts: 223 Real Name: Robert

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitch I agree. From pictures of the dd module posted by mr horology in another thread one can see the utter beauty and complexity of the module attached to a handsome ETA engine.

Missed that post...can you point us in the right direction? Thanks.

Spring Lake Bob View Public Profile Send a private message to Spring Lake Bob Find all posts by Spring Lake Bob Add Spring Lake Bob to Your Contacts #153 06-27-2010, 10:09 AM

kless13 Member Member Geek DD Module Quote:

Originally Posted by Spring Lake Bob

Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Southern CA Posts: 86 Real Name: Ken

Missed that post...can you point us in the right direction? Thanks. http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php...=Dubois+Depraz kless13 View Public Profile Send a private message to kless13 Find all posts by kless13 Add kless13 to Your Contacts #154 06-27-2010, 12:24 PM

Russell3

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Fallowfield PA Posts: 488 Real Name: Russell

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza I would have to say the laughing stock are those that tried to make this more then it was (unsubstantiated rumors, theories, speculation, etc.).

Having had the watch appraised early on (that's why I was POSTIVE of it authenticity) at/by reliable and highly qualified dealers, I can assure you no one in the REAL WORLD is laughing at Invicta or THIS particular product (except BLOGGERS).

What service issues! It was stated long ago that if there is a problem OR you THINK there is a problem, contact Rebecca and send it in OR return to SNBC for refund (and they (SNBC) also refunded the initial shipping and for those that asked received a prepaid UPS sticker).

Personally, when I received the first one in an unsatisfactory condition, I immediately called SNBC got a replacement at the TTV price and AFTER it was received returned the original.

NO PROBLEMS; NO PAIN! The replacement has been working flawlessly since it's arrival almost 2 months. In the UNLIKELY event their is a problem in the future (5 years) I am confident Invicta will correct the problem to my satisfaction.

That's MHO. Come on A.J, you know that dog won't hunt!

People are laughing loud and hard because those "unsubstantiated rumors, theories, speculation, etc" haven't been laid to rest.

I'm curious when the appraised you watch, did they open it up?

Did they take off the hands and dial and inspect the module?

Lastly what kind of appraisal did the give you?

As far as service goes...... well Invicta service speaks for itself But on a positive note.... ENJOY you Speedway. I had an original and it was a beautiful watch.

Russell3 View Public Profile Send a private message to Russell3 Find all posts by Russell3 Add Russell3 to Your Contacts #155 06-27-2010, 12:26 PM

rottieluv Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Zellwood, FL (near Orlando) Posts: 1,515 Real Name: Denise

I didn't buy this watch, but I have been following the Speedway DD story since it broke. To me this is an important event, and honestly, I still would call it a debacle. Anyone who has bought an Invicta and anyone who is contemplating buying an Invicta needs to know about it and form his or her own conclusion.

Many of my fellow WGs are satisfied by the official statement. I respect them and I would not try to dissuade them from their assessments. I do want to say for the record, though, that I find the statement to be rather vague and incomplete.

I am most impressed here by the points brought up by WatchYaThink (Larry). I think he raises some very valid concerns and questions. ~ Denise rottieluv View Public Profile Send a private message to rottieluv Find all posts by rottieluv Add rottieluv to Your Contacts #156 06-27-2010, 01:11 PM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,468 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

Now I realize us SW NVer hicks are not as sophisticated as you all in E PA. Hey we have a hard time keeping the privies clear. But out here where the rattlers and scorpions keep you company at night, that dog hunts fine I know we are a bit slow and laid back out in these here parts but we have this saying about the Truth is always harder to accept!

Except for literally a handful of people (.003% of the US population) no one knows or more importantly CARES! And again in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink and cannot let go.

Maybe we need to hire a handwriting analysis expert to determine if those signatures really belong to Eyal and Chris!

As stated in a SEVERAL previous threads, any owner of the DD Speedway could PM me and I would provide the two assessments. Several dozen geeks took me up on that offer and I provided them the comments of the two dealers (and yes they are experienced with DD movements and have the ability to repair ON SITE).

Not bad for a bunch of hicks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell3 Come on A.J, you know that dog won't hunt!

People are laughing loud and hard because those "unsubstantiated rumors, theories, speculation, etc" haven't been laid to rest.

I'm curious when the appraised you watch, did they open it up?

Did they take off the hands and dial and inspect the module?

Lastly what kind of appraisal did the give you?

As far as service goes...... well Invicta service speaks for itself But on a positive note.... ENJOY you Speedway. I had an original and it was a beautiful watch. __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #157 06-27-2010, 01:15 PM

Leed24

Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ. Posts: 634 Real Name: Lee

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza Now I realize us SW NVer hicks are not as sophisticated as you all in E PA. Hey we have a hard time keeping the privies clear. But out here where the rattlers and scorpions keep you company at night, that dog hunts fine I know we are a bit slow and laid back out in these here parts but we have this saying about the Truth is always harder to accept!

Except for literally a handful of people (.003% of the US population) no one knows or more importantly CARES! And again in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink and cannot let go.

Maybe we need to hire a handwriting analysis expert to determine if those signatures really

belong to Eyal and Chris!

As stated in a SEVERAL previous threads, any owner of the DD Speedway could PM me and I would provide the two assessments. Several dozen geeks took me up on that offer and I provided them the comments of the two dealers (and yes they are experienced with DD movements and have the ability to repair ON SITE).

Not bad for a bunch of hicks!

A.J. Living out here in Phoenix, I am LMAO at your response. Your post just made my day.

Thanks !

Leed24 View Public Profile Send a private message to Leed24 Send email to Leed24 Find all posts by Leed24 Add Leed24 to Your Contacts #158 06-27-2010, 01:24 PM Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,109

KOKONUTZ Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by rottieluv

I didn't buy this watch, but I have been following the Speedway DD story since it broke. To me this is an important event, and honestly, I still would call it a debacle. Anyone who has bought an Invicta and anyone who is contemplating buying an Invicta needs to know about it and form his or her own conclusion.

Many of my fellow WGs are satisfied by the official statement. I respect them and I would not try to dissuade them from their assessments. I do want to say for the record, though, that I find the statement to be rather vague and incomplete.

I am most impressed here by the points brought up by WatchYaThink (Larry). I think he raises some very valid concerns and questions. ~ Denise Hi Denise, well stated and I too, would have to agree with Larry's original post within this thread.

KOKONUTZ View Public Profile Send a private message to KOKONUTZ Find all posts by KOKONUTZ Add KOKONUTZ to Your Contacts #159 06-27-2010, 01:50 PM

firstfrog Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 168 Real Name: Marv

It is good news. A lot of us were quick to make negative comments, some went over the edge. I agree it's is over. Let's move on. Thanks Jim for your involvement. firstfrog View Public Profile Send a private message to firstfrog Send email to firstfrog Find all posts by firstfrog Add firstfrog to Your Contacts #160 06-27-2010, 02:41 PM

hitch

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by kless13 http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php...=Dubois+Depraz That it. Post #19 in the thread. Thanks kless. hitch View Public Profile Send a private message to hitch Send email to hitch Find all posts by hitch Add hitch to Your Contacts #161 06-27-2010, 02:53 PM

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 268

Russell3

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: East Fallowfield PA Posts: 488 Real Name: Russell

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza Now I realize us SW NVer hicks are not as sophisticated as you all in E PA. Hey we have a hard time keeping the privies clear. But out here where the rattlers and scorpions keep you company at night, that dog hunts fine I know we are a bit slow and laid back out in these here parts but we have this saying about the Truth is always harder to accept!

Except for literally a handful of people (.003% of the US population) no one knows or more importantly CARES! And again in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink and cannot let go.

Maybe we need to hire a handwriting analysis expert to determine if those signatures really belong to Eyal and Chris!

As stated in a SEVERAL previous threads, any owner of the DD Speedway could PM me and I would provide the two assessments. Several dozen geeks took me up on that offer and I provided them the comments of the two dealers (and yes they are experienced with DD movements and have the ability to repair ON SITE).

Not bad for a bunch of hicks!

LOL! A.J Now that was a funny post!

Now I have to travel out there to see you!

Russell3 View Public Profile Send a private message to Russell3 Find all posts by Russell3 Add Russell3 to Your Contacts #162 06-27-2010, 03:10 PM

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Staten Island New York Posts: 12,132 Real Name: Nick

Chief68 WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

I am not saying I knew how this was going to end but I was certain not everyone would be happy. These two men made a statement and signed it and I know it is not on a letterhead but that really does not matter because there signature is present.

To all of us that have one of these watches if you are satisfied with yours as I am, then be happy life is just too short . To all the people who did not buy one but are very involved in how this turns out, well draw your conclusion and stick by it but do not try to make everyone else do it.

If you own one and have an issue you are going to be given a priority to get it corrected.

This is the statement there will not be another one those of us that are fine with it that is GREAT you are able to make your own decision , for those that are unhappy that is fine also you are entitled to your opinion and able to make your own decisions .

Everyone has made up there minds so lets just go about our collecting and not try to change each others opinions it is not going to work. Let's get back to having fun here - JMHO __________________

NYPD Emergency Service Unit

Chief68 View Public Profile Send a private message to Chief68 Send email to Chief68 Visit Chief68's homepage!

Find all posts by Chief68 Add Chief68 to Your Contacts #163 06-27-2010, 03:21 PM

GeorgeTheWatchGuy

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: OHIO Posts: 8,403

WatchGeeks Moderator True WatchGeek

That works for me Nick! __________________

"There are Two Types of Pain in this World: The Temporary Pain of Discipline, or the Permanent Pain of Regret"... GTWG GeorgeTheWatchGuy View Public Profile Send a private message to GeorgeTheWatchGuy Find all posts by GeorgeTheWatchGuy Add GeorgeTheWatchGuy to Your Contacts

#164 06-27-2010, 03:27 PM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: "Da Swamp" LA. Posts: 9,596 Real Name: John "WHO DAT"

strutn45

Senior Member True WatchGeek

I agree Nick and i'm with ya! __________________

"WHO DAT"

strutn45 View Public Profile Send a private message to strutn45 Find all posts by strutn45 Add strutn45 to Your Contacts #165 06-27-2010, 03:32 PM

bat

Senior Member Veteran Geek

Your the man Nick.... bat View Public Profile Send a private message to bat

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 502 Real Name: Fred C

Send email to bat Find all posts by bat Add bat to Your Contacts #166 06-27-2010, 04:47 PM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,468 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

And THIS is WHY They call him CHIEF! BZ, Nick!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief68

I am not saying I knew how this was going to end but I was certain not everyone would be happy. These two men made a statement and signed it and I know it is not on a letterhead but that really does not matter because there signature is present.

To all of us that have one of these watches if you are satisfied with yours as I am, then be happy life is just too short . To all the people who did not buy one but are very involved in how this turns out, well draw your conclusion and stick by it but do not try to make everyone else do it.

If you own one and have an issue you are going to be given a priority to get it corrected.

This is the statement there will not be another one those of us that are fine with it that is GREAT you are able to make your own decision , for those that are unhappy that is fine also you are entitled to your opinion and able to make your own decisions .

Everyone has made up there minds so lets just go about our collecting and not try to change each others opinions it is not going to work. Let's get back to having fun here - JMHO __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #167 06-28-2010, 10:55 AM Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 18 Real Name: Ron

maxkonin Junior Member New Geek

I agree with Nick and thanks Jim, Eyal, Christoper Becker, and anyone else who helped get this response out. Now lets just let it go... Enjoy summer. Before you know it, you'll have your repaired DD back. maxkonin View Public Profile Send a private message to maxkonin Find all posts by maxkonin Add maxkonin to Your Contacts #168 06-28-2010, 01:40 PM

Gregg

Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vallejo, Calif.

Posts: 2,308 Real Name: Gregg (New Geek)

Senior Member Super Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchYaThink He didn't "change" his statement ... and the statement that he originally released was after multiple consultations on the manner directly with the ownders of DD. I don't see how you possibly come to this conclusion?!

Okay, I have no stake in this issue, I do think the first Chris Becker statement made sense if you believe that Invicta did purchase the DD engines from a third party, and not the OEM. Gregg View Public Profile Send a private message to Gregg Find all posts by Gregg Add Gregg to Your Contacts #169 06-28-2010, 04:49 PM

Grumpyface Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg Okay, I have no stake in this issue, I do think the first Chris Becker statement made sense if you believe that Invicta did purchase the DD engines from a third party, and not the OEM. I'm not sure why but I never paid too much attention to all the noise about exactly where Invicta got the DD movements, or who they got them from. I'm quite sure Mr. Becker was correct when he stated early on that Invicta had never been a customer of DD nor had DD ever shipped them any movements. And I'm very sure that he checked with the main office before issuing his statement.

I always just assumed that one of the watch companies that had a shipment of the DD movements decided after receiving them that due to current depressed watch sales, it wouldn't pay to build as many watches using the DD movement as they had originally planned.

So, what to do with all the extra--and expensive--DD movements? Simple. Get on the phone. I'll bet there are a number of watch companies out there that would love to get their

hands on a bunch of these movements, perhaps at a discount--and no waiting! I'll bet Eyal jumped at the chance.

So company B sells the extra DD movements to Invicta and they're both happy. I suspect that right now there are some real bargains as companies are anxious to unload unwanted inventory of various kinds.

Grumpyface View Public Profile Send a private message to Grumpyface Find all posts by Grumpyface Add Grumpyface to Your Contacts #170 06-29-2010, 03:01 AM

Warrior Rider

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Peoria,Arizona Posts: 250 Real Name: Bob

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza Now I realize us SW NVer hicks are not as sophisticated as you all in E PA. Hey we have a hard time keeping the privies clear. But out here where the rattlers and scorpions keep you company at night, that dog hunts fine I know we are a bit slow and laid back out in these here parts but we have this saying about the Truth is always harder to accept!

Except for literally a handful of people (.003% of the US population) no one knows or more importantly CARES! And again in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink and cannot let go.

Maybe we need to hire a handwriting analysis expert to determine if those signatures really belong to Eyal and Chris!

As stated in a SEVERAL previous threads, any owner of the DD Speedway could PM me and I would provide the two assessments. Several dozen geeks took me up on that offer and I provided them the comments of the two dealers (and yes they are experienced with DD movements and have the ability to repair ON SITE).

Not bad for a bunch of hicks!

Scorpions & Rattle Snakes Huh, what part of Las Vegas do you live in? I have been following this from the beginning & have noticed you have an awful lot of replys on this subject & I

was wondering if you would have taken the same stance had your DD Speedway been messed up as alot of the others were? A $1000.00 is a heck of alot of money for most people to spend on something that may or may not work now or in the future. Those aren't good odd's even in Vegas. Then you state "in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink & can't let go", maybe they aren't satisfied with the response from Invicta & DD? If I'm not mistaken the purpose of a forum is to post a question & that opens it up to discussion to resolve a potential problem & there are always going to be people having a difference of opinion, that's part of living here in the good old USA! IMO there are going to be members who are disgruntled for whatever reason & I don't feel they should be grouped & chastised for stating their opinon!! That's just My Own Opinion on this Debacle with Invicta & DD!!!!!

Warrior Rider View Public Profile Send a private message to Warrior Rider Find all posts by Warrior Rider Add Warrior Rider to Your Contacts #171 06-29-2010, 05:02 AM

X-James Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 258

Ya know overall the response was far more than actually expected so why not just respond to it with your wallet. If your not happy with it let your wallet do some serious soul searching before purchasing another Invicta watch.

It has been mentioned in the past and only recently cemented into solid truths about various Invicta debacles that has led many to question both the integrity of the company and of the CEO of Invicta with this DD issue being yet another debacle in whats getting to be a very long list of them.

Was the debacle handled satisfactorily? To some it was but to others it was not. There are those who want an apology from Eyal but you aint gonna get that so if you really want that let your wallet determine your next moves. Do I think Eyal owes an apology or explanation of exactly what he did? Yeah it would be nice but it aint gonna happen so why keep harping about it. Its time to move on and let the wallets speak for you.

Now for those who have sent in there watches to be fixed I hope you get them back quickly and enjoy them and for those that have no problems I hope they continue that way for 100 years.

Now for those who just dont want to let this topic end let me just say give it up, you aint gonna get what you want and your only beating your head against the walls of sanity. It is what it is and if your upset you only have yourself to blame for it all. Anyone who thinks they are actually getting $5k or $10K watches for just pennies on the dollar should be considering investing in mountaintop oil drilling because that is where the money is going to be made.

You only have yourselves to blame for thinking you were and have been getting far far more than what you actually got both now and in the past so please lets just move along, the last

train has left the station and some of you are the only ones left standing on the platform rambling on about dead issues. Lets just agree that what we have is all we are going to get and we may not like it but it is what it is and that is what we need to accept.

X-James View Public Profile Send a private message to X-James Find all posts by X-James Add X-James to Your Contacts #172 06-29-2010, 08:52 AM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,468 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

The FACT is if you had read my replies you would have seen that my INITIAL Speedway WAS messed up - misaligned hands.

I also was very VOCAL in pointing to Invicta QC in that this should have been caught AND that they were NOT doing their job.

But instead of WHINING about the problem and acting like an 8 year old, I took immediate steps TRYING to obtain one that was not messed up, because I understood the VALUE one was receiving in this movement.

Fortunately, for me, it worked out. Had it not, the watch would have been returned to Invicta for repair as detailed in the THREAD originated by Jim Skelton. You see, I'm "old school". I personally believe good things DO come to those who wait.

BTW - I am not the only other individual (Geek) that returned their LEMON and received a PEACH. Difference in opinion is a GOOD thing; accusations, misplaced theories, and rumors are not.

Unfortunately, there are times when threads are heavy on the later and short on the former and being disgruntled is no excuse for the later.

Finally, if you did not understand the Jonathan Swift type response used to reply to Russell, what can I say. The only thing that matters is Russell (to his credit) got it! And I truly believe both of us and several others got a laugh out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Rider Scorpions & Rattle Snakes Huh, what part of Las Vegas do you live in? I have been following this from the beginning & have noticed you have an awful lot of replys on this subject & I was wondering if you would have taken the same stance had your DD Speedway been messed up as alot of the others were? A $1000.00 is a heck of alot of money for most people to spend on something that may or may not work now or in the future. Those aren't good odd's even in Vegas. Then you state "in REALITY under 100 people continue to raise a stink & can't let go", maybe they aren't satisfied with the response from Invicta & DD? If I'm not mistaken the purpose of a forum is to post a question & that opens it up to discussion to resolve a potential problem & there are always going to be people having a difference of opinion, that's part of living here in the good old USA! IMO there are going to be members who are disgruntled for whatever reason & I don't feel they should be grouped & chastised for stating their opinon!! That's just My Own Opinion on this Debacle with Invicta & DD!!!!! __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #173 06-29-2010, 03:27 PM

Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 55

JacksBlues Member Member Geek

Nick Those are my feeling exactly. I have a feeling that if you took the time to see, you might find that the people who have voiced the strongest negative opinions are might just be people who didn't even buy the freakin' watch.

JacksBlues View Public Profile Send a private message to JacksBlues Find all posts by JacksBlues Add JacksBlues to Your Contacts #174 06-29-2010, 05:30 PM

nycruza

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,468 Real Name: A.J.

Senior Member Super Geek

Your obviously TELEPATHIC Quote:

Originally Posted by JacksBlues Nick Those are my feeling exactly. I have a feeling that if you took the time to see, you might find that the people who have voiced the strongest negative opinions are might just be people who didn't even buy the freakin' watch. __________________

SANIII on the Rocks with a Twist of Lemon nycruza View Public Profile Send a private message to nycruza Find all posts by nycruza Add nycruza to Your Contacts #175 06-29-2010, 08:29 PM

arcata1946 Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 974 Real Name: Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacksBlues Nick Those are my feeling exactly. I have a feeling that if you took the time to see, you might find that the people who have voiced the strongest negative opinions are might just be people who didn't even buy the freakin' watch.

You know, in relationships, a "divorce" between husband/wife doesn't just happen overnight.

I think we saw so much negativity about this particular issue because of "other issues" that have been building on this forum for months.

sunaru

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 350

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcata1946 You know, in relationships, a "divorce" between husband/wife doesn't just happen overnight. I think we saw so much negativity about this particular issue because of "other issues" that have been building on this forum for months.

You just went over quite a few heads with that statement, but i couldn't agree more.. sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #177 06-30-2010, 06:59 PM

Warrior Rider

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Peoria,Arizona Posts: 250 Real Name: Bob

Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunaru You just went over quite a few heads with that statement, but i couldn't agree more..

Wow what is that suppose to mean?` Warrior Rider View Public Profile Send a private message to Warrior Rider Find all posts by Warrior Rider Add Warrior Rider to Your Contacts #178 06-30-2010, 07:32 PM

PUCKSK8R Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: On the Jersey Shore Posts: 3,476 Real Name: Daren

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-James Ya know overall the response was far more than actually expected so why not just respond to it with your wallet. If your not happy with it let your wallet do some serious soul searching before purchasing another Invicta watch.

It has been mentioned in the past and only recently cemented into solid truths about various Invicta debacles that has led many to question both the integrity of the company and of the CEO of Invicta with this DD issue being yet another debacle in whats getting to be a very long list of them.

Was the debacle handled satisfactorily? To some it was but to others it was not. There are those who want an apology from Eyal but you aint gonna get that so if you really want that let your wallet determine your next moves. Do I think Eyal owes an apology or explanation of exactly what he did? Yeah it would be nice but it aint gonna happen so why keep harping about it. Its time to move on and let the wallets speak for you.

Now for those who have sent in there watches to be fixed I hope you get them back quickly and enjoy them and for those that have no problems I hope they continue that way for 100 years.

Now for those who just dont want to let this topic end let me just say give it up, you aint gonna get what you want and your only beating your head against the walls of sanity. It is what it is and if your upset you only have yourself to blame for it all. Anyone who thinks they are actually getting $5k or $10K watches for just pennies on the dollar should be considering investing in mountaintop oil drilling because that is where the money is going to be made. You only have yourselves to blame for thinking you were and have been getting far far more than what you actually got both now and in the past so please lets just move along, the last train has left the station and some of you are the only ones left standing on the platform rambling on about dead issues. Lets just agree that what we have is all we are going to get and we may not like it but it is what it is and that is what we need to accept.

Well stated James. I have sat back and watched all of this drama unfold. There are some that seem to forget there are implied rules and an assumption of risk when playing this game...and some hate to admit it but it is a game. We all expect to receive quality products no matter the outlet for aquiring. But again there is an assumption of risk when buying sight unseen.

Some have said "I will never pay that price for a watch...that is just way overpriced!" As it has been noted here previously there are many factors that determine the cost of goods on any product that is produced. Not just the standard, " All I am paying for is the spokeperson" scenario. That is a factor yet a small one. I say this only from experience as this is what I do for a living.

The question that some need to answer is if they want to complain about the rules while the game is being played or do as some have done, keep quiet take their ball and go play in someone elses yard. The game will continue, but again we have the choice whether or not to play.

You cannot place a price on piece of mind and satisfaction as this will vary for all parties. I own some great pieces from Invicta's that I will never sell as well experienced my share of duds. Because of this, I chose to stop playing in these waters, for now, support my local AD's and pay for a high quality, worry free timepiece (outside of SHOP brands) that I enjoy on the wrist as well as off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycruza The FACT is if you had read my replies you would have seen that my INITIAL Speedway WAS messed up - misaligned hands.

I also was very VOCAL in pointing to Invicta QC in that this should have been caught AND that they were NOT doing their job.

But instead of WHINING about the problem and acting like an 8 year old, I took immediate steps TRYING to obtain one that was not messed up, because I understood the VALUE one was receiving in this movement.

Fortunately, for me, it worked out. Had it not, the watch would have been returned to Invicta for repair as detailed in the THREAD originated by Jim Skelton. You see, I'm "old school". I personally believe good things DO come to those who wait.

BTW - I am not the only other individual (Geek) that returned their LEMON and received a PEACH. Difference in opinion is a GOOD thing; accusations, misplaced theories, and rumors are not.

Unfortunately, there are times when threads are heavy on the later and short on the former and being disgruntled is no excuse for the later.

Finally, if you did not understand the Jonathan Swift type response used to reply to Russell, what can I say. The only thing that matters is Russell (to his credit) got it! And I truly believe both of us and several others got a laugh out of it.

You are a wise Man AJ and I am proud to call you a friend. You...complete.....me! __________________ Class...Quelle heure est il? - Madame Eno (My 8th grade French Teacher) PUCKSK8R View Public Profile Send a private message to PUCKSK8R Find all posts by PUCKSK8R Add PUCKSK8R to Your Contacts

#179 06-30-2010, 10:47 PM Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 24

TickTockMomma Junior Member New Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-James This was a statement clearly written by DD and jointly signed by them and Eyal.

I would venture to guess that Invicta had no choice but to sign almost whatever DD put in front of them or risk legal ramifications for some of the things they said when selling that watch. I would also think that whatever party Invicta bought the modules from also put pressure on Invicta to play ball and sign whatever was put in front of them or risk never doing business with them and that they could also be penalized and never get another DD module from DD. This statement does answer some questions but leaves many more unanswered and most likely never publicly answered questions. Live with it or complain about it but this statement is what it is and thats that.

I agree with this.

TickTockMomma View Public Profile Send a private message to TickTockMomma Find all posts by TickTockMomma Add TickTockMomma to Your Contacts #180 07-03-2010, 01:17 PM

sunaru Senior Member Senior Geek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Rider Wow what is that suppose to mean?`

Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: THA BRONX Posts: 350

a lot of people don't like to hear the truth is what i meant... just read some of the responses around here.. sunaru View Public Profile Send a private message to sunaru Find all posts by sunaru Add sunaru to Your Contacts #181 07-20-2010, 07:04 PM

montereywatchjunkie Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Monterey Posts: 258 Real Name: Sam

First off let me say I do have a dog in this fight #467/800 Silver face blue hands. While the statement might be a good PR move, it certainly doesn't put this situation "to bed" I have no confidence in my $1000.00 speedway. Right now the watch is performing perfectly, however I think all the Speedways might be missing the washer needed for dial clearance and all probably have the same hands. Just because my watch is okay now what about after a few years? I need more information than the statement addressed. I am keeping this watch regardless of what happens (always was). Just think a complete recall might be in order __________________ Sam As a child of the 60's It's hard to get nostalgic when you can't remember anything