15 minute read
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
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Dear I have been married, baruch Hashem, for five years, and often
Navidaters, try to set my friends up with my husband’s friends. Being married, I realize how unimportant the questions the boys and their mothers ask. The questions I am asked are ridiculous. “How baalebatish is her family?” (a.k.a. are they rich?) “Do her grandparents align themselves with the Yeshivish world?” “Did she wear heels in seminary, or was she more of a flats kind of girl?” (this one is from a mother). Every time I get off the phone with these mothers, I want to vomit. When I married my husband, my father was doing incredibly well in business and was supposed to support us for three years in Eretz Yisroel. Long story short, a year after my marriage, his business was crushed by a competitor and all our “plans” were upended. We came back to America and both started working. We, baruch Hashem, are building a nice life together, although it is nothing like the one we dreamed of. I also used to dress up supe- nice, almost fancy, every day. Now, with two kids and 25 pounds later, I am lucky if I get to wear something other than what I wore the day before.
Life is so busy and baruch Hashem for that! But dealing in shidduchim is so depressing. Seeing how people’s lives are so planned out before they even agree to meet each other is so sad and naive. Priorities have gone out the window.
How can we change this system?
Chaya*
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
You are asking a good question. How do we change the system? I think the answer is a two-fold one.
We change the system as individuals. We can provide a principled answer to the question about photographs. “I don’t share photos of boys or girls” is a stand you can take. This can be adapted to those who do send you their photos. In other words, you can say that you don’t ask for pictures. However, if a family sent you a picture along with the shidduch resume, they are giving permission for you to share it.
“I don’t compare young people” is a good answer for people who are educators and youth leaders, especially. Very often, people who have already looked into someone or who know members of the community well will ask you to compare singles with one another. Taking a stand on that is another way to change the system.
To respond to questions that are judgmental or imply an interest in knowing exactly what is going on the home and its values and practices takes more skill. It is helpful to craft some scripts and responses for yourself in advance so that you can actually respond in a respectful manner that causes a person to rethink the question. Are you actually asking me? ... I think I am hearing a question about … You don’t really think that XXX matters, do you?
You can also repeat the question with disbelief in your voice. You can laugh at the question good-naturedly without sneering.
Keep in mind that lecturing people doesn’t change them. Carefully prompting them to rethink their questions is a good goal for someone who is suggesting matches. But do keep your experience out of the conversation. Why? Because people will think you are bitter and discount your strategic efforts to get them to reconsider. They will react to your story, not to your point.
Changing the system, so to speak, demands action on the part of shadchanim as a group, too. About two years ago, I believe, a group of shadchanim took a stand on something. I don’t remember what it was, maybe it was about photos or something else. Keep in mind that parents are the ones who pay the shadchanim, so the latter can argue that they are trying to help the parents find what they are seeking.
Public discourse is really the only way to change the system. The proliferation of shidduch columns in national and community papers is one sign of the healthiness of our community about some unhealthy shidduchim practices. Publishing discussion and various opinions bring greater openness to the community, and young people and their parents do pay attention. Many of these columns are discussed within families and include younger siblings as well as those in the parsha. There is healthy discussion between the generations about matters large and small.
Another recent positive development has been the rising popularity of shidduch and dating coaches. A skilled third party who helps a young person clarify his thoughts, feelings, and behavior helps more than that young person sort things out. The young person has greater clarity and with that clarity can often manage parents, future dating prospects, and approaches to shidduchim in a healthier way.
The parsha of shidduchim is more complicated than ever, perhaps. I think that young people with lists are a big problem, not just the judgmentalism of parents. Seminary and yeshiva administrations take their jobs seriously in this regard. I believe they stress growth and openness. But more needs to happen in terms of expectations of young people of future spouses in terms of levels of earning, learning, and more. Building a life together by working hard, as you and your spouse are doing, is healthiest rather than bringing the other person vacations, values, and SUVs.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
Theoretical questions are sadly typical in the shidduch world. Questions are thrown around as if life is a Hallmark film with the predictable storyline.
The beginning: Man meets woman at a post office and instantly knows they will live happily ever after.
Middle: He tries tracking her down because he took one of her packages by mistake, calling it destiny.
End: His dog runs away and while trying to find him, finds the woman from the post office at the dog park, with his dog. They all live happily ever after.
I often think about this when I hear the questions similar to the ones you describe as off-putting in your letter – as if life usually goes as planned and as if we remain the same people we were while dating. If she wears heels to class in seminary, does it really indicate she will wear heels after having her first child? If her father can support for seven years of kollel, is there a kollel insurance policy if said father’s finances change? I’ve even gone as far as hearing from a boy I set up that he would like to continue dating the woman but must see her without a stitch of makeup because he must know exactly what she looks like. I mean, come on, really? If all the answers to these external questions can change in a moment, what is the purpose of asking them?
I hear you, Chaya. I really do. It bothers me as a shadchan as much as it bothers you.
I also know that experience is usually the most effective teacher. While other people’s experiences would be the most convenient teacher, more often than not, people tend to learn from their own. Take you, for example. If you were told while dating that you should marry someone self-sufficient financially just in case your father can no longer support, would you have heeded that advice? Your friends are looking for something just like you were when you were dating.
Now to your next question: how do we provide a wake-up call to people everywhere not to harp on silly unimportant details? This is something that can only be changed if society changes. If it becomes socially unacceptable to ask these questions, they will no longer be asked.
Who determines what is or is not socially acceptable? I would venture to say that it must come from the rabbeim and roshei yeshivos, but who am I to say? I will leave that answer to the other panelists.
Hatzlacha, and thank you for your holy work in shidduchim!
The Single
Rivka Weinberg
Icommend you and your husband for trying to set up your friends. We all have the opportunity to be a shaliach of Hashem, so each of us
has an achrayus to think of ideas for those around us.
You ask how we can change the system, however, the system isn’t what needs fixing. The same process of shidduchim has been around for decades and, baruch Hashem, our community has seen, and continues to see, much success from it. Before we jump to the “shidduch crisis” conclusion and begin to bash the system, let’s take a broader look at society today. In the system, the pieces that have evolved over time are the people involved in it and their mindsets towards it. We live in a generation that is focused on instant gratification, where almost anything and everything can be customized, so is it really the system to blame?
Given the reality we live in, are the questions you’re being asked by mothers and their sons really that far off? Keep in mind, these are individuals who are products of the always-wanting-the-best-and-more generation. People bolt to the latest designer coats and will stand outside in cold temperatures for all hours of the night to purchase the newest piece of technology. It would be naïve to say that these ideologies have not impacted our communities as well. If people are running for what they believe to be the best and supreme items in the world of gashmiyus, what makes you think there’s a magic switch that doesn’t allow the thought process to seep into ruchniyus as well? Of course, any mother is going to find who she believes to be the “top” and “finest” girl for her son because she’s a creature of habit.
To be clear, I agree with you that the priorities of many have gone out the window and the laundry lists of questions regarding topics no longer relevant to the girl are ridiculous. A girl should be looked at for where she is holding today and not judged for her choice to wear heels or not three years ago.
Instead of trying to change a system that isn’t broken, we should fix the one that is. Although this issue must be reckoned with on a community level, it needs to start in every home with each parent teaching their child the difference between need and want. The entitled approach will only cause harm to future generations. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side, and because children are raised with instant gratification, they will never learn the patience to take the time to work through problems. If not stopped, this issue will continue to trickle into all areas, including shidduchim and relationships. So, to change the system, you can begin by discussing your values and priorities with your children to ensure they have a clear picture of what is truly important and how those beliefs will help them navigate throughout their lives.
Food for thought: isn’t it interesting that your father was doing incredibly well in business and had a plan to support you for three years in Eretz Yisrael when you first got married, and only now, after you’ve been married for five years, do you realize how unimportant the plans and questions are?
The Zaidy
is a trick question. The correct answer is that the father is the one who Dr. Jeffrey Galler takes out the garbage.)
Your letter raised three interest- Isn’t it more appropriate to find ing issues. You discuss, first, how out about character, moral fiber, and shidduch questions are often foolish shared goals and aspirations? and inappropriate; second, how your You are a very impressive young own married life turned out much lady. You got married with certain differently than planned; and, third, expectations and found yourself how our contemporary shidduch pro- in very different circumstances. It cess is in need of drastic overhaul. sounds like you were able to overI have heard some outlandish come adversity and, nevertheless, questions folks ask shadchanim. thrive. I’ve been writing this column for Good for you! one year now, and I still have no idea I share your discomfort with our what the “right” answers are to these current system of matchmaking. questions: Even though the system seems to -What kind of hat does the father- work for many, for countless others it in-law wear? is painful, artificial, and anxiety-pro-Do they cover their fancy Shab- voking. Dating should be a happy, bos tablecloth with plastic? enjoyable, and exciting time of life. -Do they put the ketchup bottle Young men and women should on the table or consider alternatives to this archaic put it into a system. Organizations like YUConserving dish? nects (YUConnects.com) do won-What derful work. They run events and dress does the programs, under proper rabbinical Pulling It All Together mother wear when taking supervision, and recently announced their 450th successful shidduch. out the gar- Very best wishes, and thank you The Navidaters bage? (That one for writing to us. Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists
Thank you for writing into the panel about a very important matter that is at the helm of the shidduch crisis. I am going to do my best to deliver my honest, forthcoming, authentic opinion as to what needs to be done, at least in part, to help resolve this leg of the shidduch crisis. But first, we must define what it is that you wrote in about: the holier than thou, my family is better/frummer/more important/wealthier/“more normal” than yours AND we only use the finest linens on Shabbos attitude and mindset. And in order to keep our perfect lineage and heritage, we are going to exclude anyone and any family who doesn’t fit the bill. And…no one will stop us!
Sometimes some of the questions and criteria I hear about are borderline neurotic. And, who is really suffering at the end of the day? Everyone! The singles and their parents and families. This system does work for a lot of people. But for too many, it doesn’t. It is exhausting and feels undoable.
The problem runs so deep and is
so embedded into the fabric of society that I truly believe correcting it starts in the schools and shuls. There must be a healthier message sent out to families by rebbeim and religious authority figures whom the families will respect if change is to be made on a grand scale. And the message must be something along the lines of giving up this hypercritical, FBI, humanity denying approach. Wouldn’t it be so beautiful to go out with someone based on chemistry, middos, and who the person is today?
There needs to be education around relationships, a deep understanding into the psyche of men and women, and, dare I say it, kosher ways for frum singles to naturally meet on their own. Whether that is a singles’ weekend (please G-d, the world should open soon!) or a fun event or party. Hashem gave men and women the instinct and the know-how. We need only to turn to key figures whom we emulate in the Torah and Nach to understand that man is…human. And certainly, many people met naturally, with Hashem’s help.
Now, man has slowly taken this away by forbidding meeting naturally, making it taboo. We met on our own; how will we tell our parents we want to get married? I always tell people that I can’t cure normal! I just can’t. There’s someone I want to go out with but my mother forbade it because the girl has a reputation from high school. The sad thing is that the ostracization for being one pinky toe out-of-thebox is all too real. Something must change on the macro level. If this little micro level column can nudge the macrosystem, then it will be a column well worth having written.
I do believe change can be made, but it must come from the inside of the hub. From the people who make the rules and call the shots. I simply support those impacted by the system and the rules.
I think you are absolutely incredible for rolling up your sleeves and continuing to help your friends. Sometimes, it feels like the forces of the shidduch system are working against us. There is nothing that gives me greater joy than seeing my clients get engaged and married. The level of rejection I watch them experience, due to no fault of their own, makes me sad…every single time.
We have to remember the individual.
Keep on doing the amazing, holy work you do! I think anyone involved in shidduchim is very special! It is hard labor, but the payoff is out of this world!
Sincerely, Jennifer
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
