Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Navidaters,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate your shidduch column more than any of the others, so thank you.

I am a serious and educated guy approaching my mid 30s.. I really want to get married. I do not have a lack of dates, nor do I have a lack of people trying to set me up. It simply happens to be that the girls I like don’t seem to like me back. The most common reaction from girls as to why they give a no is, “He’s such a nice, sweet guy, but I need someone more edgy.” Or, “He’s going to be an amazing husband but he’s too much of a soft, sweet type.” I take charge on my dates, plan nice outings, splurge on the girls I go out with. I certainly do not think I come across as timid. But I really want practical tips. How do I come across as more of a “gavrah” (strong/manly) type when intrinsically I’m just a more laid back/sweet type?

Thanks, Ben

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

Dear Ben,

Here is a thought from this panelist. I don’t think you need to change your personality or style. There are people looking for a supportive, sweet man.

I do think you need to be more assertive with shadchanim, friends, and family and go about it in the opposite way than you think. Present yourself as a person who has these particular qualities to offer and tell them, “I am looking for someone who can appreciate these qualities. Whom do you know that would value gentleness, listening, menchlichkeit, and caring?”

What you are hearing as a negative should be reframed. Do go on the offensive. Don’t be passive in this effort to cast yourself in a desirable mode for a particular kind of woman seeking this kind of man.

Go out there and do it!

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

Ialways say that the divorce rate is so high because singles are looking for a guy who’s going to be a great boyfriend rather than a great husband, wanting an appealing and charismatic accessory to go with the perfect sheitel and Dior heels. Unfortunately, many don’t wake up to the desire for marrying a “nice guy” until after marriage.

Let’s face it: when a woman is engaged there is so much externality going on. The Guy, The Family, The Look, The Ring, The Bracelet, The Dress, The Hall, The Flowers, The Limo, The Societal Perception. But once the doors close and the wedding is over, real life begins. No longer will you want your friends staring into your life. Reality sets in, and a more internal appreciation is built. If your letter does anything, I hope it helps one woman decide that marrying a nice guy is a good thing to do. Although I cannot change reality, I can tell you that the right woman for you will appreciate you for who you are. Do not change yourself to be what others want.

Here are some basic tips to help your dating etiquette. 1) Plan the dates with thought; don’t go in without a plan. 2) A bit of banter is fun and OK to build a connection. 3) Don’t act over-eager, leave some room for mystery. 4) Sell your strong points, don’t self-depreciate or put yourself down. 5) Whatever you are doing with yourself (career, volunteer, learning, etc.), sell yourself. Build yourself up. The worst thing you can do is sound wishy-washy about who you are and what you are doing with your life. Build up your confidence, and it’s sure to come out on your dates.

The Single

Rivka Weinberg

This is a great question, so thank you for writing in. In short, I don’t think you should try to be someone you’re not. So, if you’re not more of the “gavrah” type, then do not try to be. It is important to be genuine and honest about who you are. With that said, it is also important to be vulnerable and step out of your comfort zone to some extent. Each person needs to figure out for him- or herself what exactly that means and how to execute it. I do not think there is a generic answer that can be provided to make you more of a “gavrah” type. I encourage you to continue to take charge on dates, plan nice outings, and be the best version of yourself. Putting your best foot forward and being real is crucial in shidduchim.

Food for thought – I was recently speaking to one of my rebbeim about this topic of guys being the “gavrah” type in shidduchim. Unfortunately, because of the crazy world we live in today, men are told that their “gavrah” qualities are entirely negative. My rebbe said that he has seen guys intentionally tone that trait of theirs down because of the negative connotation associated with it in the secular world today. This has seeped into our Yiddishe culture and is sadly taking a toll on young men in shidduchim. I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that toning down or ramping up certain personality traits to “play the game” of shidduchim will only backfire in the long run. A guy who is more timid and gentle should be proud of that, just as a guy who has more of a “gavrah” vibe should present that way. Of course, there needs to be an underlying theme of respect across the board, but I do not think that either type of guy should try to be someone he is not.

I would like to note that I believe it is the same with girls. Often in shidduchim, girls are told to be meek and timid, as that is the “appropriate” and “tzanua” way to act. However, that is beyond absurd and ridiculous. At the end of the day, Hakadosh Baruch Hu created each of us in a specific way for a certain reason and our goal is to channel our traits to serve Him the best way we can. Time and place is key with everything in life, so being self-aware and utilizing your kochos will enable you to grow and succeed.

Much hatzlacha!

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Have you tried getting an edgy Mohawk haircut, a menacing tattoo, a Hells’ Angels leather jacket, and arriving for a date on a motorcycle?

OK, I understand, you were hoping for a serious answer.

To be more successful at dating, it’s important for you to understand that many women seem to be attracted to “Bad Boys.” They are often attracted to the kind of men that their mothers always warned them about.

Sociologists explain that “bad boys” exude high levels of self-confidence and physical vigor. And, some women deduce that men with these characteristics are better able to protect them.

Yes, I know that my feminist friends and relatives will criticize this statement, but respected psychologists and researchers have concluded that many women are genetically wired to seek strong, alpha males who can protect them. Yes, it’s true that women no longer need protection from saber-toothed tigers and roving bands of marauding pirates, but remnants of this DNA-based need seem to endure.

Note, also, that “bad boys” radiate a streak of rebelliousness that attracts the latent spirit of adventure and nonconformity that beats in the hearts of many women. Psychologist Robyn McKay, Ph.D., wrote, “Girls who have a concealed inner rebellious side are easily attracted to men who can release that.”

So, how does it help you to know

Singles are looking for a guy who’s going to be a great boyfriend rather than a great husband.

that women are often attracted to men who are self-confident, strong, assertive, and rebellious? Please don’t turn yourself into a “bad boy.” But, you can learn from what makes them attractive.

Here are some suggestions:

First, plan activities that seem adventurous and exciting. Instead of taking your date to the museum, how about going hiking, or boating, or to an amusement park, or an archery range? Instead of dinner at a highclass restaurant, how about a kosher hot dog at Yankee Stadium?

Second, how about a wardrobe upgrade? Try going to a more upscale, modern, clothing store and ask for sartorial advice. Avoid dressing for a date like you’re going to a kollel shiur or a job interview.

Third, do not belittle yourself with self-deprecating statements. You should not be saying, “My last date thought that I should be more assertive,” or, “If you don’t like the jacket I’m wearing, I can go home and get a different one,” or, well, you get the idea. Most girls do not want boyfriends who need to be mothered.

Fourth, women seem to be attracted to men who seem a bit unattainable. So, even if you really, really like the girl you’re dating, don’t propose marriage on the first or second date.

And, don’t come across as being so very overly-anxious to please. You want her to feel that you are a worthy prize that she must work hard to successfully catch. It might go against your sweet nature, but it doesn’t hurt to play hard to get, early in a relationship.

All this may seem a bit counter-intuitive. You’d think that a woman would jump at the opportunity to seriously date a nice guy who will make a wonderful husband and father. But,

Pulling It All Together

The Navidaters Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists

Hi Ben,

Thank you for writing into our column. Right off the bat, I’m going to suggest working with a dating coach, even if it is for one or two sessions, just to have a professional’s opinion. This may prove to be very valuable to you. As much as we can offer advice or insight into what may or may not be going on, having someone who can sit down with you and witness you and read your energy and vibe may be very helpful.

I am wondering if you’ve ever been in a relationship or have become serious with any woman. I’m also wondering about the girls you don’t like. You wrote that the girls you like don’t seem to like you back. (Maybe I’m a progressive feminist over here and there is no place for this remark, but girls your age aren’t girls, they are women.) Do you notice a pattern of the kind of women you are attracted to who are not liking you back? And I will ask the same question of the women you are not attracted to. What attracts you? And is it possible that what you are attracted to is not attracted to a softer man? I could be completely missing the mark here, but it’s possibly worth exploring with your dating coach. And if this runs deeper, it’s possibly worth exploring with a therapist.

A personality should never be changed! Hashem created it. And there is someone who will love you for you. It shouldn’t be any other way. However, if you’ve been dating for an extended period of time and have had no success, I am wondering if there is something you are doing on dates, or an energy you are giving off unbeknownst to you, that could stand to use a little tweaking. My intuition tells me one of three things:

A. You haven’t met the one yet.

B. There is something in your communication or style or something that isn’t getting you to the secy ond date.

C. You are attracted to the wrong women.

You are worth figuring this out. I have worked with some pretty fabulous men and women over the years. People who have come to my office, unable to “figure out” what is going on. Sometimes, it’s simply because they haven’t met the right one. And sometimes, we found a little something in the energy they were exuding

Yes, it’s true that women no longer need protection from saber-toothed tigers and roving bands of marauding pirates.

remember that Leo Durocher, a famously successful baseball manager, declared, “Nice guys finish last.”

that actually did need to be tweaked. Some examples:

The beautiful, successful woman who has it all but is giving off an air of desperation.

The perfectly together guy who starts confiding in his dates about all his baggage and unknowingly turning his dates into therapy sessions.

The woman who doesn’t know her value and bends over backwards too early on.

The funny guy who is cracking inappropriate jokes relentlessly.

The men and women who are attracted to the wrong type for the wrong reason.

I hate to plant any seed of doubt that there is something you may be doing “wrong.” Most likely, you hal ven’t met your bashert. But in the slightest case there is something you could actually work on, please see someone. It’s worth it, even if it’s to simply to rule out the possibility.

Sincerely, Jennifer

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.