Remember Fallada Till Velten
FOREWORD
The artist Till Velten talks to people. In the shape of videos and printed transcripts these conversations constitute his work. Haus am Gern asked Till Velten to include an independent art work in the present collection of twenty monograph booklets. There were three reasons for this: firstly Haus am Gern does not like to think alone, secondly Haus am Gern likes to be surprised, and thirdly Haus am Gern would like to broaden the horizon of its monograph. Till Velten decided to think about Fallada, a work by Haus am Gern that caused a storm in a small village (and beyond) because Haus am Gern announced, in the context of a local open air exhibition, that they would drop a dead horse from a helicopter. Although the drop never happened, it resulted in countless vilifying emails from outraged horse lovers. Till Velten has now given further voice to these people: he visited them on the pony farm, the riding stables and the paddocks, engaging them in conversations about horses, bodies, feelings, abuse and sexuality.
This is the first conversation with Mrs. Toussaint on 10.06.2010 at her stables in Freiburg St. Georgen Velten: Mrs. Toussaint, I’d like to talk to you about the relationship between humans and horses. Could you tell me something about that? Toussaint: There is a long tradition, a long history of horses being domesticated for many thousands of years. At first, the relationship centred on work: for hunting, transport and (as little as 50 years ago) in agriculture. People with horses had real advantages, they were more efficient in all these areas. Today, a few people have started using horses again, for logging for example. But horses are mainly kept for leisure and tourism these days. Carriage rides, riding and wellness are areas in which horses are frequently used today. Velten: For wellness, in what sense? Toussaint: Wellness is an up and coming branch of tourism and horses are animals that impact mood positively, like dolphins I’d say. Most people find horses beautiful, elegant, strong, appealing, and yet friendly and cute as well. Velten: ... civilised... Toussaint: ... and yet they also seem open to relationships with human beings and respond to us, they have a strong presence and as herd animals they are very social beings and thus capable of entering into such relationships. Velten: And what is the difference to cows for example? Toussaint: I like cows a lot. Velten: Why can’t people develop such an intimate relationship with a cow? Toussaint: I do believe that such a bond is possible with a cow as well. It’s just that cows are usually
associated with work, not leisure. A farmer has a cow in his stables for producing milk that he then sells or consumes himself. I used to know a cow quite well that I felt a very strong bond with. Of course I didn’t ride her, nor did I get her to pull a carriage for me, but I do like cows very much. Velten: But this relationship no longer exists? Toussaint: That was when I was a teenager. The cow has since died and I don’t keep cows here. But if I lived on a farm I would definitely form a bond with my cows. Velten: You told me that you offer therapeutic riding sessions – what does that involve? Toussaint: There are different types of therapeutic riding. For example I work with mentally and physically handicapped individuals and quite a lot of research has been done in that direction. For example, the four-stroke movement of the horse’s step stimulates synapses in the human brain, strengthening the sense of balance, which can be very important for people with a disability. There is the positive impact of the tactility of such a warm, large animal with such a pleasant body and beautiful coat – long and cuddly in winter, silky and smooth in summer – and of the relationship you can develop with such an animal. A horse encounters all human beings openly and without prejudice.
It also makes very clear what it wants and what it doesn’t – its likes and dislikes. Velten: And why do horses have this ability? Toussaint: I’m not done yet; I’ve only talked about one aspect of my work. You asked about therapeutic riding. The second thing is: even for healthy people, or people with a psychological issue, a horse can be a very valuable partner. That’s the second area I’m involved in: working with traumatised teenagers, girls and women especially. There are many directions one can take with this – I am not sure whether you would like to go into more depth with your other question first. Velten: What actually happens in the relationship between a traumatised person and a horse? How can the horse shoulder the psychological burden? Toussaint: It can’t shoulder the burden as such. It’s difficult to take on someone else’s suffering, be that for man or animal. But what a horse can do is the following: it can carry a person, which makes it more interesting than a goat or a dog, although these can be important to a person in other ways. There are different forms of animal therapy after all. But a horse can add to that by carrying a person and there is a fundamental feeling of being carried, of letting go – there can be a regressive moment of remembering how we were carried as small children for example, if we dare to close our eyes while
swaying on a walking horse. Velten: So there is an element of remembering one’s own childhood? Toussaint: There is a nurturing element to being carried. Especially for people who lacked this for most of their lives. But even for me a calming ride with my horse over the meadows through the woods or vineyards, is sometimes the best way to relax after a long day’s work. It sustains and nurtures. Velten: Do you have any idea what a horse’s perceptions are when it carries you? Toussaint: Horses sense an incredible amount. They are very sensitive, for example they can shoo away a fly from a particular point on their bodies by rippling their skin in that one place. They rely a lot on physical contact in their relationships, which is natural for herd animals. When I am riding a horse, either for dressage or out in the fields, our contact happens mainly through the pressure of my body. I guide the horse by balancing my weight. It’s a very fine line of communication, which happens only through the amount of pressure I put on either flank with legs and buttocks. Velten: Only when you ride bareback, or including when you use a saddle? Toussaint: It can be done with a saddle. Without a saddle contact is obviously more direct and therefore we do therapeutic riding without a saddle, only with a blanket fastened with a belt. But it works with a saddle, where I manipulate the horse’s flanks by using my left or right calves more, or both simultaneously. There is not much more to
it than these two supporting moves, the pull on the harness is far less important than amateurs usually expect. Riding is not really about that because horses perceive a lot very sensitively through their bodies and communication happens between the bodies of rider and horse. And sometimes, if a very close relationship has developed and the rider is very much in tune with herself, it really can happen in the mind alone. My riding instructor always told me, even as a kid: look in the direction you want to move towards. And when you try it, the smallest movement of the head alone suffices and the horse will move in the direction in which you looked. Velten: This happens when one knows a horse intimately? Toussaint: Yes, and provided the horse can live according to its natural inclinations, without becoming obtuse and bored because it has to carry four or five different, perhaps very bad, riders a day. Velten: And what about your own horse, Kimberley, how old is she? Toussaint: Kimberley will be twenty soon, so she is getting on a bit. I hope we will have another good ten years together because so far she has shown no obvious signs of aging apart from a bit of arthritis in the knee. Velten: And how long have you had her? Toussaint: I’ve known Kimberly for about 13 years. She didn’t belong to me then, she came to me in a
roundabout way. I still had another horse and my brother bought Kimberley for his girlfriend at the time. When they separated, Kimberley seemed a bit up in the air, like a child that doesn’t yet know whether it will live with one or the other parent. So I started to ride her now and again, and began to love and respect her a lot. She has been my horse for (?) years now. Velten: Do you do therapeutic riding as a full profession or is it a passion? Do you manage to support yourself with it? Toussaint: Yes, that too. I am self-employed and have several projects going at once. One of these is the riding for disabled people while the other is therapeutic riding for traumatised women. Velten: Why are these always traumatised women? Are there never traumatised men? Toussaint: I am sure there are, there definitely are. There are boys who have suffered sexual abuse in the family for example. I once had a transsexual man who was raped by a gang of gay men. Velten: So traumatized usually means that there was rape or sexual harassment involved? Toussaint: No no, there are other forms of trauma, for example torture, bad accidents, natural disasters. There are many different forms of trauma and my particular professional niche happens to be sexual violence. A long time ago I worked at a crisis centre for rape victims in Freiburg but I let it go when I was pregnant with my second child. I still do independent projects with them but I no longer have a fixed employment contract. Velten: As an uninformed amateur I’ve noticed that particularly girls of a certain age have the desire to be among horses. What is your explanation for this phenomenon? Toussaint: Among younger kids, boys are into it as well, often in a cowboy sort of way, which they find exciting. Or they are interested in riding as a competitive sport, so gender specific factors do play a role. For girls, what matters is the engagement with a large, strong, animal and the experience of exploring their physical and emotional boundaries, as well as sensing and respecting the boundaries of another being while taking on a clear leadership role. When I’m out on my horse, I am basically the lead mare. I say what’s what, I determine where we go. But I don’t do so violently, it’s an organic part of the relationship. The horse depends on me and is happy to receive
clear instructions and determined leadership because of the herd instinct. That’s how it should be. Traumatised women in particular can learn to express themselves in a clear and determined way and act accordingly, especially on the level of body language because a horse responds more to body language than verbal communication. This enables them to take the lead with a horse, and leading means stating clearly what direction I want to take, to communicate without a doubt that “no, I don’t want you to stand here and eat grass, I want to go forward in this direction, first right and then left.” That can be a huge challenge for a woman whose experiences have suggested that her own will is
worthless and disrespected, or who may have learned as a young girl that what she wants simply doesn’t matter and that her ideas are irrelevant and ignored. Velten: Do women and girls really experience such things? Toussaint: I’m not talking about all girls; I’m talking about traumatised girls. If you imagine that a young girl … you have a daughter, don’t you? Velten: Yes. Toussaint: So you know how a girl grows up when she is raised in a protected environment, how she experiences things and engages with herself and her environment. If she grows up differently, in a home environment that isn’t safe, where she is abused to serve the interests of adults, she will experience a lack of respect for her identity and interests as a child. Velten: Is that a precondition, a kind of destiny, for women who end up suffering from traumatic sexual experiences, or is that the wrong way of putting it? Toussaint: There are women who are able to deal with it differently, without developing a post-traumatic stress disorder in a psychological sense. Perhaps because they have enough elements in their
life, such as a good social network, a stable relationship, or a rewarding job that make them feel cared for and that reduce the impact of a traumatic event in their adult life. This can be rape – even rape by a stranger although that is rare statistically, whatever the media hype – or other bad experiences that affected them as adults. But the coping mechanisms are weaker if such experiences happen very early on in life, to a small child, and repeatedly, which is typical for cases of abuse, particularly sexual abuse in the family. Velten: Do you often have clients who come to you because of such traumatic experiences of childhood abuse?
Toussaint: Exactly, there are statistics, police statistics that say roughly every fourth girl and every twelfth boy experience abuse as a child. And that is a lot, although not all of them carry the burden of trauma with them throughout their lives. Velten: But what actually counts as abuse in these cases? It doesn’t have to be rape, right? It could be psychological abuse that goes on for years. Toussaint: That’s something else entirely. I think it’s important to differentiate. Sexual abuse involves a projection of adult sexuality onto the child. There are a few women who abuse, it’s not exclusively men – mainly men, but there are a few women. I’ll make my point using an example involving a woman, a single mother who still forces her twelve year old son to sleep in her bed every night, showers with him and washes his genitals. That’s abuse. Velten: That already counts as abuse? Toussaint: Of course, because she doesn’t respect
his boundaries. He might not even resist her, because he doesn’t even understand that there should be a boundary, he never experienced it because he was not respected. Velten: And do your clients come voluntarily or are they referred by therapists and welfare officers and so on? Toussaint: Voluntarily, of course, although sometimes other advice centres do send them over. It’s still voluntary because they have to pay for themselves. My services aren’t covered by health insurance. They have to pay or in rare cases a private insurer might pay something, but most aren’t insured privately, so it’s really only possible to come here if you freely choose to do so. Velten: And what about yourself? Considering how involved you are in these issues, did you experience something similar in your youth, because you seem very well informed? Toussaint: I’m certainly sensitised to the issue but
I’m not myself a victim of sexual abuse, no. Velten: Sensitised, how? Toussaint: The climate I grew up in. I found out very late but probably sensed much earlier, that my mother was a victim. Velten: In her own youth? Toussaint: In her own youth, exactly, and she never really came to terms with it. Velten: Did you talk to your mother about this? Toussaint: Yes, much later on. Velten: And that’s when you found out? Toussaint: Exactly, I found out that as a little girl she was abused by her uncle. Velten: But in the end, what can a horse, this poor creature, do? Isn’t it a bit crazy to project all of that onto an innocent being, this animal who must carry the burden, just because the horse is the carrier of man? Does the horse understand anything of what happened to these women? Toussaint: I can’t fully answer that, I can’t tell you with hundred percent certainty. Velten: There is no research on it? Toussaint: Whether the horse really knows, in terms of understanding the content of the women’s problems – I don’t know. But I am convinced that a horse, just by sensing so much physically, feels a lot of the suffering, the heaviness and the tension. The horse responds to it. For example, when my horse pulls down the corners of her mouth and pricks her ears in an unusual way, I know that she isn’t comfortable with the way the person is on her back. The young woman might realise and say “somehow Kimberley isn’t enjoying carrying me today”. Having observed the horse’s response I can then suggest that they relax the way they sit, loosening their legs, for example. The woman will try not to grip the body of the horse with her legs so much, and if she succeeds the horse will start moving more freely, more energetically and the riders
are usually amazed by the transformation. I can explain to them that Kimberley sensed the tension. This triad is typical; I end up translating the horse’s signals and responses. Velten: So you are able to read the gestures of the horse and communicate them in the language of the person riding it? Toussaint: Yes, for example. That’s one aspect of my work. Velten: Can the horse itself signal to the rider that something isn’t right and communicate so they correct their mistake? Toussaint: If the rider is perceptive, then yes. In my example, the young woman perceived how there was something tense about the horse’s gait that day. The next step would be to make the link to her posture. This is where I can support and make suggestions. The rider herself didn’t realise how tense she was, she only understood later, when she was able to let go and relax.
Velten: Did you ride as a teenager? Toussaint: Yes of course, I started riding as a little girl. I always wanted to ride; I always wanted my own horse. I was always pestering all my relatives to add to my piggy bank savings for a pony. Velten: And did it work? Toussaint: It wasn’t enough for my own horse, no. But it did pay for my first riding lessons. I then picked strawberries and did other things that kids can do to as paid work to finance my lessons. There was also a horse that I was allowed to ride whenever I wanted, which was almost like having my own. My own horses came much later. Velten: In your experience, is a horse still a luxury object? Toussaint: Yes, absolutely, because it’s so timeand cost-intensive. There is no other way of putting it. I also think people need to be aware of this,
especially parents who are considering it for their kids. My daughter for example, says in retrospect it wasn’t ä good idea to give her the pony. She loves it so much that she doesn’t want to give it away … Velten: ... but she can’t afford to keep it? Toussaint: No, nor care for it. Of course it is now more my responsibility than hers and sometimes we argue because I think she should be more involved despite being an adult, or she should face the consequences and sell it. Of course she doesn’t want to do that. It’s not a simple thing to bestow on a child because it implies a huge responsibility for a long period of time, another living being to care for. Velten: Would a scientific doctor be familiar with the things you are telling me about? Would he accept that the relationship between human and horse can be a form of therapy? Toussaint: On that level, there are some things, like the research I mentioned on the synapses and the four-stroke rhythm of the horse’s movements, which are relatively well documented scientifically. There are a number of publications in this area. Recent research on trauma is tending in the direction
that relationships may be central to the healing process. Sometimes relating to another human being just after a psychological injury is very hard and it is easier to bond with an animal in an intermediate step. That is why animal therapy seems to have an application in this area. I used to have a large dog that I took with me when I worked at the crisis centre and there were a few clients who could only open up to advice and therapy if the dog was with us. And the dog sensed that, he sat down quietly, let them pet him, and the client would then open up, start talking. It won’t work for everyone but for some it’s a way into things. Velten: Do you have a psychology degree? Toussaint: I first trained as a social worker before completing a five-year course in Gestalt therapy as well as several other counselling diplomas. Velten: One last question: why do people not enjoy eating horse meat that much? Of course there are specialist butchers for horse meat but there are still many people who say no, I won’t it that.
Toussaint: It’s comparable to why we think it’s strange to eat monkey brains – because of the close genetic relationship we have with them. I lived in Africa for a while, where people do eat monkeys. I was very alienated by that but I did try a piece of monkey meat once because it would have been impolite not to do so. It didn’t taste bad. It’s a little like venison and in the end I believe that if I eat meat at all, it’s not crucial whether it’s a fellow mammal or something else. So if I agree to eat veal, I might as well eat horse as well. Velten: Great, thank you very much for this conversation.
This is the conversation with Virginia Wolf on 04. May 2010 at the pony farm Wolf in Kappel Velten: So Virginia, how long have you been riding? Virginia: For ten years. Velten: And why do you do it? Virginia: I enjoy being around horses and I spend a lot of time with a horse to see how we develop a trusting relationship. Velten: Do you think there is a difference between a horse and a cow? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And what would that be? Virginia: In my opinion, there is more trust with a horse than with a cow. A cow stays much wilder and you can’t ride it, for example you can take part in competitions with a horse, which is impossible with a cow. Velten: And what about dogs? I always ask myself about horse meat for example, which is still an exceptional thing to eat. But in the end what is the difference between a pig or a cow and a horse? What is the difference in their relationship with humans? Virginia: I relate to horses completely differently. I have more feelings than towards a pig or a cow. Velten: Do you have a horse of your own then? Virginia: No, not my own. Velten: Would you like one? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And how old are you? Virginia: 16. Velten: And you’ve been riding for ten years? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And your brothers or sisters, do they ride too? Virginia: No. Velten: You’re the only one? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And do you ride in competitions? Virginia: No. Velten: And why not? Virginia: Because there hasn’t been an opportunity. I’m not good enough yet. Velten: After ten years you’re still not good enough? Virginia: Yes, because I haven’t trained that much, I just took regular riding lessons. If you concentrate on show jumping for example, you’ll be focusing your training and practice for competitions because you need to do stuff that you wouldn’t normally be taught in riding lessons. I’m not yet that focused on competitive riding. Velten: Do you have a riding instructor? Virginia: Yes, she’s great. Velten: And you’ve always taken lessons here at Kappel? Virginia: No, the past eight years I rode at Umkirch, then here. Velten: Do you have friends here at the riding club? Virginia: Yes. Velten: The girl sitting next to you for example? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And do you ever go on holiday trips with the horses and the club? Virginia: No, we’ve never done that. I just spend my holidays here. Velten: Tell me something: do you prefer riding stallions or mares or geldings? Is there a difference? Virginia: Yes, there is a difference. It depends on the character of the horse. A quiet stallion can be very good to ride and a mare can be very bitchy. It depends totally on the character of the individual horse. Velten: And which do you prefer? Virginia: I couldn’t say, really. I think I prefer geldings because they tend to be quieter. But sometimes a mare will be really calm and a gelding a little confused. I can’t say in general. Velten: Tell me the name of the horse that you are riding at the moment. Virginia: Crazy. Velten: And before? The name of the horse you were riding before? Virginia: Scharaneo. Velten: And how long have you been riding Crazy? Virginia: Since I’ve been here, but I sometimes still ride Scharaneo as well. Velten: Who does Crazy belong to? Virginia: To the stables. Velten: What matters in your relationship to a horse? What is the difference to having a dog, for example? Virginia: That I can ride the horse. It’s tricky. A dog is very
active, I could do a lot with a dog and there would be that trust, too. But I just feel more attracted to horses. Velten: And you would rather own a horse than dog? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And do your parents ride as well? Virginia: No. Velten: You were the only one in your family to start riding? Do you know why you started? Virginia: Because even as a little girl I loved horses and one day I came to the riding stable, in the beginning it was just casual – sometimes I was allowed to walk the horse or ride at a slow pace. I liked it so much I kept doing more and more. Velten: Could you tell me your favourite experience with a horse? Virginia: I have a horse that I care for here at the stables, but I can’t ride him. Velten: Why not? Virginia: He bucks, which means it’s impossible to saddle him. He had bad experiences in the past. When he came here me and my best friend, who isn’t here at the moment, spent a lot of time with this horse. He was very shy and occasionally aggressive to people. My most wonderful
different. Because I spend a lot of time with horses in general and I don’t know much about cattle compared to horses. Velten: Do all girls feel this way, or all children? Virginia: I don’t really know. Velten: Ok, towards the end of our conversation, could you give me any more advice for kids who are just starting to ride? What would you tell them? Is it good for children, or men, or women? Virginia: In my opinion it is a good thing. Because for example, mentally ill people are often helped with riding therapy and I believe it is good for kids and women and … Velten: Why does it help mentally ill people? Virginia: Because the horse has a calming effect and helps people to get their confidence back. Velten: Has it ever happened to you that you’ve been upset and being around horses has helped you?
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Cheek experience is the trust which I built with this horse over the year that I worked with him. Thinking of how he was in the beginning and how he is now, that experience was really beautiful and important for me. Velten: Would you eat horse meat? Virginia: No. Velten: Why not? Virginia: Because I love these animals and I cannot imagine eating one horse while riding another. Velten: And what would you advise a girl that would like to ride, how should she begin with a horse, lovingly or dominating? Virginia: Lovingly, of course, but never let a horse mess you around. You have to find a balance somewhere in between. On the one hand you have to be dominant, take control, on the other hand not be too harsh with a horse. It’s a feeling you need. Velten: Is that something you learn or do you need to have this special feeling from the beginning? Virginia: It’s something you learn. It depends on the person. If a person is careful or shy they might take a little longer to take control of a stubborn or bitchy horse than another person with a more open and lively character. Velten: Do you notice quickly whether a horse is stubborn or bitchy? Virginia: Yes. Velten: How do know? Virginia: From their character. Velten: You mean the way the horse acts towards you? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And can you manage any horse or do you sometimes feel like it’s too much for you to handle? Virginia: Even I can’t handle every horse. There are always some horses you get on better with and others that you can’t find a connection to. It’s all about experimenting and switching a lot until you’ve found a horse that suits you, basically. Velten: What does a dead horse mean to you? Virginia: It’s something that makes me really sad. Velten: But what about the difference between a dead cow and a dead horse – would you cry more for one than the other? Virginia: Yes. Velten: You would cry more for the horse? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And why? Virginia: Because my relationship to horses is completely
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Virginia: Yes. Velten: Often? Virginia: Not often, but sometimes. Velten: Do you often talk to your horse? Virginia: Yes. Velten: And it understands you? Virginia: I don’t know. Velten: But you hope so? Virginia: Yes. I don’t think it can literally understand every word I say. But I do think that a horse senses whether a person is sad or cheerful or whether anything is the matter. It’s something you can sense when riding. When the rider has a bad day the horse senses it, when the rider is nervous the horse picks up on it.
Velten: The horse senses that? Virginia: Yes, some horses are a little more sensitive and react very strongly in these situations, while others are less bothered by it. In my opinion, horses do sense things, perhaps they don’t understand everything, but they can feel it. Velten: And what do you do apart from riding? Virginia: I meet up with my friends. Velten: Do you go to school? Virginia: Yeah. Velten: What school? Virginia: The Waldorf School in Freiburg. Velten: So you come riding here, all the way from Freiburg? Virginia: Yes. Velten: In which grade are you at the Waldorf School? Virginia: 10. Velten: Ok, thank you very much for our chat. Virginia: You’re welcome.
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dead horse. There’s a big difference if I see a dead horse I used to work with. Velten: You call it working. What exactly is it you do with horses? Rosa: Riding or training them. You teach the horse things as well, in a way it’s all about learning together. A fully trained horse can teach me a lot because if it’s a good horse it will automatically do things right, the way it learnt them, and if there is something I can’t do yet, I’ll watch what the horse is doing … Velten: You go to the Waldorf School too, don’t you? Rosa: Yes. Velten: Why? Rosa: I had a difficult time in school. Until second grade I went to the Emil-Thoma School, where I repeated second grade because I was dyslexic. I then went to the Karlsschule but from there you can’t go on to university, and my mother thought I had the potential for a better education. She wanted a solution where there isn’t too much pressure on me because I don’t do well under pressure. That’s why she decided on the Waldorf School, where I’ve been since fourth grade. Velten: And do you have any brothers or sisters? Rosa: I have a half-sister, my dad’s daughter, she’s four years old. Velten: But she’s not at the same school? Rosa: No, she lives by Lake Constance, where my dad lives. Velten: You don’t live with your father? Rosa: No. Velten: What do you like about riding?
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Rosa: Perhaps it’s different again with pigs, some people do keep pet pigs but I don’t really know. But I think that cows just don’t form an attachment to people, it’s not really in their nature. Like I said, we can ride a horse, but we can’t properly ride a cow. Velten: And do your friends also ride here on the pony farm? Rosa: No. Velten: Is there anyone else from your class, or just the two of you? Rosa: There is one more friend here who is also in our class. Velten: And there isn’t a pony farm in Freiburg that you could go to? Rosa: Not that I know of. I used to ride at Himmelreich but that was Western style, which I did for four years. I didn’t like it that much, I always wanted to ride English, but I never found a place I liked until the other girls told me about this farm. Velten: What does it mean, riding English? Rosa: It’s a different riding style to Western. I’d say English is quite strict for the horse, in Western there is more freedom. English style also includes jumping and dressage. Velten: What else is there? English, Western and …? Rosa: Only those two, really. Velten: And driving carriages, that sort of thing, is something totally different? Rosa: I’ve done that too. Velten: But it has nothing to do with the other styles? Rosa: Not really, no. Velten: Would you eat horse meat? Rosa: Not voluntarily, no. My father loves horse meat. Once he played this dark practical joke on me, he gave me what he said was salami, I ate a piece and then he was like: “see, that was horse meat”. That led to a long argument because I like to know what I’m eating. I wouldn’t eat a dog either and generally I find eating meat difficult and I eat very little, even if it’s beef. Chicken I have least issues with. Velten: And how many years have you been riding? Rosa: About five years. Velten: If you weren’t allowed to ride anymore, would you really miss it? What would you miss about it? Rosa: I feel free when I’m on the back of a horse. I think less about everyday problems like what do I need to get done tomorrow, what’s going on at school – I can let go. I get something from horses which I just don’t have at home, in front of the computer or whatever. Not even if I’m out with friends, which is good too, but being around animals is a different, intense feeling.
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This is the next conversation with Rosa Ehrhard on 04.May 2010 on the same pony farm Velten: Rosa, can you tell me why there is a difference between throwing a dead cow or a dead horse from a helicopter? Rosa: Well it makes a difference to me personally because I feel a closer bond with horses. I mean, I work with horses almost every day, but seeing a dead cow is a terrible thing as well. I’ve felt a special connection to all animals since I was little. So I would find a dead cow just as tragic as a
Rosa: That’s a good question. I like working with animals, not just horses, I have a dog too. My cousin rides as well and she is a lot older than me, I used to watch her ride until I was old enough to try for myself. I was hooked right away. Velten: Your friend told me that sometimes people with psychological issues do stuff with horses. Do you think this helps them? Rosa: Yes, I’m convinced it does. Because if you think about it, there is dolphin therapy as well that isn’t so different. I think bonding with animals is definitely something that influences how we feel. Velten: But why horses and not cows or pigs?
Velten: Do the boys in your class have that attitude too, or is it just the girls? Rosa: In our class, none of the boys ride. Velten: Always the girls? Rosa: Yes. Velten: And why is it always girls who ride? Rosa: I’ve wondered that! Many of the boys think its gay, doing stuff with horses. Velten: Gay? Rosa: That’s how they talk. Velten: Why? Rosa: I don’t know. For some reason they have a problem with it. I don’t know why, I ask sometimes, like: what’s your problem? And they say horses are a girl-thing, they think its funny how girls sit on them. Velten: So if a boy rides, he’s gay? Rosa: Not all of them obviously, but the ones I talk to think so, yeah. Velten: But cowboys are anything but gay. Though I also mainly met girls who like riding, the boys your age just don’t seem to be interested.
Rosa: I think girls feel a much more intensive bond with animals. Boys are more into technical stuff, all the tools and machines. That’s a huge difference. Velten: And what about your father, doesn’t he ride? Rosa: No, but it was him who got me into riding in a way. Years ago he had friends who owned riding stables. I was three or four years old, and that’s how it started. There was a small pony that I was allowed to sit on bareback and someone would lead us round the yard. From then on I’ve been totally into horses. Velten: Do you still see the pony sometimes? Rosa: No, it died. Velten: When was this? Rosa: About three years ago. Velten: And were you sad? Rosa: Yes, of course, but it wasn’t that bad, after all I hadn’t seen it for a long time before that and because of that we weren’t so close anymore. Velten: And what is the name of the horse you ride here on the farm? Rosa: The new one I’m riding is called Petty, a Haflinger. She’s still quite young and for a while she couldn’t ride because she had a problem with her hooves. That’s why I have to go slow with her. The horse I rode before just died. Velten: It died too? Lots of horses seem to die on you, why is that? Rosa: Well, the one I used to ride was quite old and she’d been sick for six months. In the last few weeks I couldn’t ride her because she kept getting worse, but they wanted to treat her with medicine and everyone talked about how in about eight weeks I’d be able to ride her again. Then suddenly one night her condition deteriorated and the next day they had to put her to sleep.
Velten: Were you with her? Rosa: No, but I came a few hours later and saw how she was taken away. Velten: How did that make you feel? Rosa: I stood right here and cried for hours. I could start crying all over again. Velten: Where do they bring a horse carcass then? Rosa: To the knacker’s yard. She was lying there in a roundpen and the guy drives up with his van, opens the flap and the first thing you see is a dead cow in there, which was a shock. Then they fastened her leg to a chain and pulled her into the van, after all a horse is quite heavy. I watched them do it and she was all stiff. The worst thing for me was the loveless way they did it, she was nothing but waste to them. That’s the guy’s job and for him it’s just waste disposal. Velten: And what do they do with the carcasses? Make dog food? Rosa: I don’t know. No, I don’t think they make dog food. When the animals are sick they’re not allowed to be used as meat. Velten: I suppose they’re incinerated, right? Was that your first experience with a dead animal? Velten: The first time I saw a dead horse, yes. Velten: And you rode this horse for years? Rosa: No, not really for years, only about half a year. I’ve only been riding here for just over six months. Velten: And do you still get tears in the eyes when you think about what happened? Rosa: Yes. Velten: What was she called? Rosa: Her name was Flicka. Velten: And can you talk to your mum about riding? Rosa: Yeah, sort of. My mum used to ride a bit and would like to do it again but she doesn’t have the time. We don’t talk about it a lot but she thinks it’s a good thing that I ride. She totally supports me and she knows it’s good for me to be around animals. Sometimes she comes to watch, not often, but sometimes. Velten: And apart from horses, what animal are you most interested in?
Rosa: Dogs. Velten: But you don’t have a dog? Rosa: Yes, I have a little dog. Velten: A Dachshund? Rosa: A Chihuahua. Velten: Like Paris Hilton’s? Rosa: Exactly. Velten: A pipsqueak. And where is he now? Rosa: She’s at home. Usually I bring her along because she has a brother here on the farm, he belongs to Kerstin. But I came straight from school today. Velten: From the Waldorf School? Rosa: Yep. Velten: I was also a Waldorf pupil, by the way. How do you think girls get into riding in the first place? Rosa: Well, firstly we start riding because we’re constantly high on horse movies. Somehow I think parents secretly love those movies because they show a perfect world. I like them too; I still watch those movies. And I have Bibi and Tina on tape, stories where kids talk about riding stables and riding vacations, riding on the beach and so on … Velten: And what about Wendy? Rosa: Yeah, I always read that of course. Velten: My daughter is listening to that now. Rosa: I always read the magazine. I think it’s the same with boys and cars; they are brought up with it too. It’s a shame really because in the end we have less freedom that way. To be honest, I am interested in cars as well. But I’ve never seen a boy who is into cars but says alright, I’ll come to the stable with you today. Velten: And do you do all the cleaning and caring for the horses? Rosa: Yes. Velten: And do you still have to pay or ... Rosa: Yes. Velten: And how much do you pay? Rosa: 15 Euros an hour, but if we help out a lot we sometimes get an hour for free. They are very open to negotiation. But we also enjoy doing it. Velten: And who does the farm belong to? Rosa: It‘s Kerstin‘s. Velten: The name of the farm is Junghof? Rosa: That’s it. Velten: And how many horses does she have all in all? Rosa: 18. A few new ones just arrived after Flicka died. But we can’t ride them yet because one of them will foal soon and another one is a former racing horse and he needs to build up his musculature before we start riding him. Velten: And what about a job breaking in wild horses, would you be interested that? Rosa: Yeah, but that’s still way out of my league. You have to be around horses everyday for years to be really good at it and be totally sure of yourself. I think you really can’t afford to be scared, not even a little bit. Velten: Have you ever seen how a wild horse is broken in like that? Rosa: In movies, but not for real. Velten: And do you fancy seeing horses in the wild? Rosa: Yes. Velten: Where would you find wild horses these days? Rosa: In Montana... Velten: There are still genuine wild horses there that are captured in the wild? Rosa: Yes, but that’s Western style riding again. Velten: I heard about a trend on these ranches, the so called horse whisperers, do you know anything about that?
The third conversation with Ann-Kathrin Velten: Ann-Kathrin, what is the difference between a pig and a horse? Ann-Kathrin: You can’t ride a pig and you can really connect with horses. I don’t think that kind of connection, from cleaning and stroking, is possible with a pig. Horses have feelings and they whinny when they recognise someone. Velten: And pigs don’t do this? Ann-Kathrin: I don’t think so, no. Velten: But you can eat pigs. Ann-Kathrin: That’s exactly it, in the end when you eat the pig it would be like eating a friend. Horses are a friend to humans. Eating a horse is like eating a friend. Velten: And because of this you would never eat horse meat? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. Velten: Even if you never knew the horse? Ann-Kathrin: No.
Velten: I always heard that people don’t like eating horse meat that much, do you think that’s the reason for it? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. Velten: And how long have you been riding? Ann-Kathrin: Since pre-school and I’m now in sixth grade, so six or seven years. Velten: And how old are you? Ann-Kathrin: 12. Velten: And do your brothers and sisters ride as well? Ann-Kathrin: Yes, my brother does. Velten: Here at these stables? Ann-Kathrin: Yeah. Velten: And is he older or younger? Ann-Kathrin: Older, he’s 14 now. Velten: What about your parents, do they ride too? Ann-Kathrin: My mother does, but not my father. My mother is just learning. Velten: Here at the stables? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. Velten: And what do you want to be when you grow up? Ann-Kathrin: I’d like to be a show jumper or a riding instructor. Velten: And who is your riding instructor here? Ann-Kathrin: Kerstin and Nadine. Velten: And is Kerstin any good? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. Velten: And does she show jump? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. She definitely does jumps and she’s even taken part in competitions. Velten: And what about you, have you been to competitions? Ann-Kathrin: Nooo. Velten: Don’t you want to? Ann-Kathrin: Yeah, I do. Velten: And why haven’t you been to competitions? Ann-Kathrin: Well, once we had a tournament here at the stables, and I was in it, I rode a pony in that. Velten: Do you ride more horses or ponies? Ann-Kathrin: More horses. Sometimes ponies. Velten: What else could you tell me about? We need five more minutes before she comes back. What are they looking at us like that for? Who’s the elderly lady? Ann-Kathrin: My mother. Velten: Then tell her what we’re doing, I don’t want her to think I’m telling you all sorts of rubbish. Oh, so she’s learning to ride as well now? Ann-Kathrin: Yes. Velten: But the two other girls are not your sisters, are they? Ann-Kathrin: No way, they’re my best friends. Velten: That’s my daughter Paula who would like to ride as well, she already does a bit. Come over to us, it’s getting cold. And the brown horse over there, do you know it? Ann-Kathrin: Yeah, that’s Luna. Velten: So do you ride horses that big or more ponies? Ann-Kathrin: No, big ones. Velten: Well, thank you very much for the chat. Ann-Kathrin: You’re welcome. Velten: Bye.
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Rosa: Yes. Velten: What do they do? Rosa: For example, if a horse has lived through a traumatic experience, like a stable fire, and it’s suddenly afraid to go out into the yard, starts bucking and stuff, and you have no idea what to do anymore, you can call these guys and they come to help you and your horse. There is a similar thing for dogs; it’s all about working together to re-establish trust between man and animal, to slowly allow the horse to discover that nothing bad will happen to it. There are different methods to gain the horse’s trust while allowing it to feel free and unforced – not telling it to do this or that. Velten: Do you take riding lessons with Kerstin? Rosa: Yes. Velten: And is she the only riding instructor or are there others? Rosa: There is Nadine, but she only teaches the younger kids I think. Velten: Does Kerstin live here on the farm? Rosa: Yes, behind the stables. Velten: Did she grow up here, or where did she get this place from? Rosa: Actually, I don’t know. Velten: Does she have a husband or a boyfriend? Rosa: No. Velten: She lives alone with the horses? Rosa: Well, no, her parents live in the house as well. But she does everything pretty much on her own, yeah. Velten: Kerstin Jung? Rosa: No, Kerstin Schmidt. Velten: But your parents don’t ride here, do they? Rosa: No. Velten: And would you be annoyed if they did? Does it give you a feeling of freedom to be here on your own? Rosa: I’d be irritated if my mum was here every day and started interrupting while I’m cleaning out the stables or whatever. Velten: Are you here every day? Rosa: Not every day, but about four times a week. But in general I think it would be quite good if my mum started riding here because we’re not very close otherwise. Velten: And what about you, how would you find it if your father and mother came riding here? Other girl: I wouldn’t like it much. I enjoy my freedom; I can do what I like here without my parents interfering. Of course it’s nice if one or both my parents come to watch occasionally. But I’m happy that I can more or less do as I please and be free. Velten: Right, would you mind telling me your age? Rosa: 17. Velten: And you’re in 11th grade? Rosa: No, I’m in 10th grade, because I repeated the second year. Velten: Ok, thank you very much for talking to me. Rosa: Anytime.
This is the interview with Monika Falkner at Freiburg in Breisgau on 18.06. 2010
Velten: Mrs. Falkner, about three weeks ago I saw a large black male horse here on your estate. I wanted to talk to you about this horse but then I heard that it is no longer alive. Perhaps you could tell me why this horse is no longer alive? Falkner: The horse was 21 years old and that is old for a large horse, you expect them to get sick. Some horses never get to that age and over the winter his musculature, his whole body, began to collapse. It’s just the same as with an old man. If you count it in human years, that horse was over 120 years old; at that age illnesses really reduce the quality of life of an animal. In terms of musculature he seemed to diminish in recent weeks. We tried all sorts of things: osteopathy, physiotherapy, the vet was called; well, the usual things one might try to make his life worth living again. It didn’t make sense anymore. And at some point one just has to accept that it’s over. One must not let an animal suffer endlessly. If you have any sense of responsibility as an animal owner, you don’t do that. That is an advantage that animals have over humans: the people who care for them can finally end the suffering, compared to the way things are often dragged out for human beings. Velten: Why do you think the same isn’t possible with human beings? Falkner: That’s a good question but it leads to endless discussion. In my opinion it should be possible for human beings to end their lives when they want to, provided they have the full mental capacity to make that decision. In the end, they should be allowed to die in peace and tranquillity. But somehow that isn’t accepted politically, pharmaceutically or medically. Velten: But why? Falkner: Well, it’s a moral question, whether it’s right or wrong to intervene and decide about life and death. Velten: But in that case what is the difference between a human life and the life of a horse? Falkner: For me there isn’t really a big difference between an animal’s life and a human life. Both have a right to existence and an animal doesn’t have less of that right than a human being. But humans assume the right to intervene and to end something that deserves to be ended because it is nothing but suffering. I personally wish the same thing was possible with human beings. Velten: But imagine for a moment that horses were
to intervene in human affairs and say well, this life is now no longer worth living, we’ll end it now. A strange idea, isn’t it? Falkner: But at the same time, if horses had that kind of intelligence, why not? Velten: But do horses have that kind of intelligence? Falkner: I don’t think they do in that sense, no, because they lack consciousness. Velten: So the actual difference is human beings’ capacity for consciousness? Falkner: Certainly, yes, in my opinion. Velten: What was the horse’s name? Falkner: Winnie the Pooh. Velten: A gelding? Falkner: He was a gelding, but he was already called that when we got him. When the previous owners bought the horse their kid was still very small and Winnie the Pooh the honey-bear, or Pooh Bear, was the child’s favourite animal I believe, so that’s where the name came from. Velten: And how long was the horse with you? Falkner: We had him for ten years. Velten: Ten years here on the farm? And did you always ride him or did your husband do so as well? Falkner: No, he was actually my husband’s horse. Velten: In that case I should talk to him. Do you still have a horse of your own now? Falkner: We have two others; one that was born here by one of our mares, the mother was the one over there. Then we also have a Haflinger, which is an Austrian breed. Velten: And do they stay out in the paddock or in the stables? Falkner: They are in the stables now, but during the day they go out to the paddock. Velten: Is it an expensive hobby, keeping horses like this, and how do you pay for it?
Falkner: It gets expensive when one has to accommodate the horses elsewhere, at a riding school or in rented stables. It can become quite pricey then. But we have the advantage that we keep a farm, all the basic foodstuff like oats, grains, hay or straw my husband produces himself. Velten: Food for the horse, or for the family as well? Falkner: No, just for the horse. The farm also produces maize, which we sell. We also sell most of the grain through a dealer. Velten: And does your husband do all that or do you have employees as well? Falkner: My husband does it all by himself. Velten: So he is a professional farmer? Falkner: He worked as a surveyor. The farm was always a sideline; my husband does it comfortably in his spare time. Velten: And do you have a day job as well? Falkner: I’m a business administrator, yes. I mean, this is just our hobby. And the farm enables us to pay for it on this scale. Three horses, it is not something most people can afford. Falkner: All in all it would come to about 400 Euro per horse, if we had to board them at rented stables. Velten: A month? Falkner: Yes, with boarding. Velten: And is that a reasonable amount? Falkner: That’s the average price. In large towns it starts at 500, 600 Euro. Here we’re almost out in the country. Velten: Do you rent your stables to take in boarding horses as well? Falkner: No we don‘t, we want peace and quiet on our estate. Velten: And too many horses would not allow you that peace of mind?
Falkner: No, accommodating horses also means putting up with their owners coming to the stables every day. They all want to do their own thing, which is difficult to handle. It’s something you either like or you don’t. And we don’t want the constant turmoil in the yard, people coming and going with their horses. We want our peace and we’re not dependent on it financially. Velten: And you inherited this estate? Falkner: It’s a family inheritance, yes. Velten: So your husband’s family has always had an attachment to horses? Falkner: To farming, not necessarily horses. They used to drive ox carts. The estate was always actively farmed; it’s one of the very oldest in the Wendlingen district of Freiburg St. Georgen. This area used to be full of farming estates, these days you barely see any. We are one of the very few that still farm a little. Velten: And what kind of family do you come from, as a business administrator? Falkner: I am Austrian, originally from Vienna. Velten: A city with an eminent history of riding. Falkner: Because of the imperial court’s Spanish Riding School – absolutely, yes! Velten: And did you have any contact with that famous institution? Falkner: Yes, I took dressage lessons with a Rider from the school. I’m still in touch with him and we organise courses here in Freiburg. And every summer we travel to there with our horses. Velten: You take the horses with you to Vienna and take riding lessons there? Falkner: Yes. Velten: Woah, what a luxurious hobby. Falkner: Yes, it’s our only treat though … One really gets involved in the sport and with the horses one has – and it changes a lot, after all they don’t live forever – so perhaps with the three or four or five horses at any one time, one tries to get to a level that one can be happy with but it takes a lot of work. It’s about constantly working and improving. Velten: So you ride in competitions as well? Falkner: Yes. Velten: Do you still do so or only in the past? Falkner: Yes, we do with the horses that remain. Velten: What division is that? Southern Germany? Falkner: It’s only regional. We have one horse, born of one of my mares; he does middle dressage level with his trainer. At this level I no longer ride him competitively. It’s called M-Dressage. Velten: What does M-Dressage mean? Military? No? Falkner: That’s the medium level of dressage. There is A, which is Anfang (the first or novice level), then L for Leicht (the second or elementary level), M is Mittel (the third or medium level), S is Schwer (the fourth or advanced level). Then there more difficult advanced levels, right up to international competitive levels. Velten: Up to what level did you ride? Falkner: At home in training I ride S lessons, but in competitions I’ve never gone further than L. Velten: Because the horse is so nervous? Falkner: It’s very difficult to achieve that level on an unknown circuit, taking into account the nervousness of horse and rider, in the strange environment. For that you need very advanced technical ability and I am not a professional Velten: So do you have a job as well? Falkner: Yes. Velten: Full-time?
Falkner: No, part-time. Velten: Do you run your own company or are you employed? Falkner: For a long time I was self-employed in industrial building construction. Velten: With a small consultancy service? Falkner: No, we built industrial facilities, key ready for our clients. But as the Chinese began to buy into the steel market it stopped being profitable. At some point we said ok, that’s it then. Velten: Because of the Chinese? Falkner: Yes, they really upset the steel markets about five, six years ago. Velten: Stables and steel, then? Falkner: Steel construction, yes, key ready industrial facilities. Velten: And the company was based here in Freiburg? Falkner: Yes, we had a workshop where we made most of the large components. Velten: So how many employees did you have? Falkner: Between five and seven on average. Ironworkers and construction managers. Velten: Did you do designs as well or did you receive the completed plans? Falkner: For the design elements we contracted structural designers and architects externally. Velten: If you had the chance now to ride professionally and earn your money doing nothing else, would you choose to do so? Falkner: No, after high school I did that in the States for two years. Through acquaintances at the Spanish Riding School in Vienna I got work at a dressage stable in America and for two years I thought of nothing but horses. But I realised that it doesn’t suit me as full time work. I need to be able to use my mind as well, to sit at a desk occasionally. Velten: And work in a stable doesn’t allow for that? Falkner: Perhaps if one worked on a breeding farm where there is more administration involved, but that is quite hard to find. Getting work where you can divide your time between riding and office work is very difficult. Velten: But isn’t it possible to develop particular methods of training a horse that might involve working with your mind? Falkner: Yes of course, that involves the mind above all. Velten: And that also happens at a desk doesn’t it? Falkner: That mainly happens while riding. Velten: But how does it happen? Falkner: You have to really engage with the horse. Horses are very sensitive, it’s unbelievable. They are huge animals but it is possible to train them to react to your breathing with specific movements or respond to almost imperceptible commands of your body. It’s an incredibly sensitive relationship with a huge mental aspect. Imagine I am moving from walk to trot: if a horse is well attuned to me it will do what I want without me moving my legs all that much. Velten: The horse senses it? Falkner: Yes, it senses it. It is possible to develop that kind of mental connection. Velten: With a horse that belongs to you and which you train for years? Falkner: Yes, that’s how it develops. Velten: But then isn’t it tragic when a horse goes and dies, like the large black one?
Falkner: Yes of course, but that’s life. We live with our horses, they are like family. Velten: And how does your husband deal with it? Does he mourn, or does he handle it like a professional, like a farmer? Falkner: Like most men, perhaps, my husband is less visibly affected. Although on the inside he has the same sadness to deal with but men cope with it differently, maybe I should say: at least in the older generation. He doesn’t show his feelings as much. Velten: But do you talk to him about things like the death of a horse? Falkner: Of course, naturally. That is a decision we need to take and we have to discuss it. In the final two or three days the horse no longer went out onto the paddock because he just couldn’t walk anymore. When you saw him, he was in the yard, that was as far as he could go – you saw how he was, how he was swaying. So we had to discuss what to do, what to do when, what else to try, or whether to say: we have to end this. Velten: And then the vet comes and gives him an injection, or how is it done? Falkner: The last six or eight weeks we had a vet who also did acupuncture because that is something we hadn’t tried before. That sometimes helped a lot, but not towards the end of course. At some point the body just reaches the end of the road. Velten: And does the horse communicate a wish to die somehow? Is that something one senses, or is there a fear of death? Falkner: I don’t believe there is with animals because animals have their own thresholds, different to ours. I personally believe that there is another life after death. Velten: For animals? Falkner: For us all. Velten: For human beings, most people believe it but you believe in an afterlife for animals as well? Falkner: Definitely. Where else does the soul go? Velten: And animals have a soul too? Falkner: Yes, why ever not. Many cultures speak of animal souls being reborn as human souls and vice versa. Well, you can choose whether to believe it or not, it’s a personal attitude to life. Velten: It’s tragic that we are sitting here talking about a dead horse. Falkner: I’m not sure it’s tragic if you think of the soul being reborn. For a few years now I’ve tried to gain some insight into how that might happen. Velten: How rebirth happens?
Falkner: Yes, if you imagine it that way it isn’t at all tragic. Every existence has a natural end. As flesh and blood we do not have eternal life spans but there is the soul. And for the soul, it’s not tragic. On the contrary, there is a chance … Velten: ... to meet the horse again, one day? Falkner: Yes, but maybe through another being. A horse might become a dog someday … Velten: Does your husband believe in these things too? Falkner: No, he’s a farmer, with both his feet firmly on the ground; he’s guided by the weather and the maize. He’s completely different. I don’t believe he ever thinks about such things. But that’s fine. His life is much calmer for it. Velten: But isn’t it difficult in a marriage, when one partner has thoughts like that and the other, as you put it, has his feet firmly on the ground? Falkner: Opposites attract. Maybe it is easier because I never discuss these things with him. Velten: You never talk about it? Then who do you talk to about it? Falkner: There are always people, people who get one thinking about these things in the first place. Nowadays more and more people think about these issues. I do yoga as well and explore other directions when I get the chance. In these circles one meets plenty of people interested in such things. And that’s good because it’s a completely different setting, perhaps it’s even better that way than being at home, I don’t know … I can only talk about how it is with us. If one has a partner who is fully involved in this stuff, who participates in everything, I am not sure whether it is better in everyday life, I find it impossible to say. One is thrown together one way, and that is the way one knows. Velten: You are from Vienna, from a noble family? Falkner: No, from a very normal Viennese family. Velten: What brought a woman from a huge city with such a grand culture here, to St.Georgen? Falkner: My husband. Velten: Or would you prefer to be back in Vienna? Falkner: No, I wouldn‘t. Velten: You prefer it here? Falkner: I grew up in Vienna. I lived in a metropolis for 20 years. I can go back whenever I like, whenever it attracts me or I feel that I want something from there. Air Berlin flies from Baden-Baden, there is no financial issue. But once or twice a year is enough for me. I find Freiburg a great, compact mixture of everything. Velten: That’s true, it has both nature and city ... Falkner: Yes, all that. Look at where we live: in two minutes I’m in the hills walking the dog, by bike it takes me 15 minutes to the town centre. And the town centre is practical; small of course and it doesn’t take long to make my rounds there, I always end up thinking: right, what do I do now. It’s a huge contrast to Vienna. But I don’t mind, I have my regular shops where I know I’ll get what I need. There is just one specialist shop, not five.
There is no need to walk through a city of two million people. Velten: I feel the same. I lived in Berlin before, which was too big for me. Falkner: It’s the same thing. Here you don’t get those dumps. Of course people talk about some districts here like Haslach and Weingarten and they say: that’s a dump. That always makes me smile, because people here don’t know what a dump is. They should look at Berlin or Vienna. Of course there are one or two areas here where one wouldn’t like to live, but otherwise Freiburg is a fantastic blend. People should be content. Freiburg also has a green party government, and in that direction there’s been a bit of progress. All in all, I find it an interesting town with a high quality of life.
Velten: That’s true. Getting back to the horses, do you ride them at the Vienna Riding School? You go all the way there to take lessons? Falkner: Not at the School itself, but with a Rider, a trainer from the school, at his private stables. Velten: So what actually happens at the Spanish Riding School? Falkner: The Lipizzaner stallions are there and they do great shows. That’s a grand riding institution in the middle of Vienna. Velten: And what do you think of the imperial elegance of this Riding School? Is that still acceptable nowadays or does it seem old fashioned? Falkner: The Spanish Riding School is over 400 years old. It is the last and greatest classical dressage centre with this centuries-old tradition in existence. Anyone interested in dressage comes across it sooner or later. But everyone knows about it because the school is not influenced by any mod-
ern methods of training a horse. It’s all based on experience – how to do it most effectively, most in keeping with the horse’s needs, most animalfriendly and in the quickest possible way, but without ever hurting the animal. Velten: And do you use the same methods here, in a limited form? Falkner: Yes, the classical manner is relevant to any rider who has ever looked into it. Those principles are present everywhere, in all aspects of riding. Velten: And the Lippizaner are bred on a special estate? Falkner: Yes, they are bred in Piber in Austria, some also in Lipizza in Yugoslawia. It’s a very special baroque race. Velten: They are particularly well-suited to dressage? Falkner: Yes, in terms of their build and their character. Velten: By build, you mean their body type? Falkner: Yes, the way their bodies are built. Velten: And the things they do at the Spanish Riding School, you couldn’t do with a normal horse? Falkner: Yes, you could do it but not with the ease and expressivity with which these horses show what they can do, their airs above the ground. Velten: And would you like to own a Lipizzaner horse yourself? Falkner: Perhaps someday, at the moment I have a great Haflinger, which is also an Austrian breed. Velten: But that’s a very different class of horse, a Haflinger. Falkner: But a good horse, too, he’s very big and looks like a small Lipizzaner in the shape of a Haflinger – and he is very talented. Velten: But not white? Falkner: No, he’s chestnut, a lighter colour. Velten: So he’s white? Falkner: No, but a flaxen chestnut has a very light coat. It is possible to connect with any horse and be happy with it. Velten: Does it make a difference to you whether you ride a male or a female horse? Falkner: To me personally it doesn’t matter. The Spanish Riding School however only has stallions. Velten: Why? Falkner: It’s their tradition. I don’t know where it comes from. Of course they have quite a few breeding stallions and I don’t know whether they used to ride only stallions for dressage in the past. Keeping only stallions is certainly less problematic than mixing them with mares and geldings, that way there is no competition for females. Velten: How about keeping only mares? Falkner: That would have been possible I suppose. But stallions just have a more expressive build. If you imagine a stallion presenting himself, he has a completely different expression to a mare in terms of his face, his body and I think that is the reason why they have always worked with stallions in Vienna. Velten: But they are neutered, these stallions? Falkner: No, they’re not geldings, these are the real
thing. Velten: And there is no rivalry and fighting? Falkner: Not as a rule, no, because there are no mares. Even bringing in a gelding would cause chaos. But stallions amongst each other are not usually a problem. Velten: And the horses are sold as well? Falkner: Yes, straight from the breeding farm at Piber. Not in Vienna, usually, except perhaps those that no longer satisfy the requirements. There are horses that cannot be trained further due to some mental or physical constraints, and these are occasionally sold. Velten: Is there a show every day? Falkner: I don’t know right now, but there are certainly two to three shows every week. You can check their homepage. Velten: And how many coaches do they have? Falkner: They just call them Riders. How many there are at this moment I don’t know, I’d guess between 20 and 30. Velten: And that is considered a proper profession? Falkner: It’s a professional apprenticeship, one begins as a cadet after school and undergoes an education that allows one to slowly move up the hierarchies, first to Assistant, Fully Qualified and finally to Chief Rider. Velten: Only men, or women also? Falkner: Until a short time ago only men were admitted, but now there are one or two women. Velten: I’d like to come back to this strange question, we spoke about it briefly at the beginning, of why young girls just before puberty love being around horses so much. That’s a real phenomenon at riding stables everywhere. What is that about? Falkner: I think that’s the emerging mothering instinct, as simple as that, it’s the impulse to take care of something. Velten: But then they could buy themselves a guinea pig... Falkner: Many do have guinea pigs. When parents don’t agree to an expensive hobby like riding, they often ask for a smaller animal … Velten: How about a dog? Falkner: A dog can be very interesting of course. But for many families a dog just takes up too much time … Velten: I spoke to a riding therapist. She told me that the best thing for any traumatised woman would be to sit on the back of a horse. Falkner: No idea. Velten: You don’t know about this? Falkner: I’m not a specialist in riding therapy, but it does seem to be great for people with disabilities for example. Velten: She told me that for many of her clients, it is the first time they are supported and carried by another being, an entirely new experience for them. Falkner: I’m not sure to what extent it connects to psychological issues. For me, riding therapy is closer to physiotherapy. Certainly, psychological aspects are interesting too. These days there are courses for managers as well, you can read up on
this. Managers learn to assert themselves by confronting and handling horses. Many are very bad at it; some managers are completely incompetent at working with people. Velten: But it works for them on the job? Falkner: Not always. Usually managers are men who are incompetent at communication. Courses teach them to use their body language to communicate something to another being, be that a horse or a person. Whether you want your opposite to go away, whether he can walk all over you or whether you simply don’t care – all of that is communicated through body language, behaviour and appearance. And in these courses those managers learn
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that very quickly. Velten: And the horses respond to their body language straight away? Falkner: Yes, immediately. Look on the internet; if you’re interested in this topic, check out Monty Roberts. Velten: But that’s a completely different kettle of fish to the Spanish Riding School. Falkner: Of course, it’s a different topic altogether.
Velten: And there is no conflict for you? Falkner: No, not at all. On the one hand it’s about equestrian technique, the ideal training of a horse, while on the other hand the work of Monty Roberts is great, communicative work because it teaches us something about our handling of horses and of ourselves. Velten: Have you ever met him? Falkner: I once saw a show in Karlsruhe. Velten: And was it any good? Falkner: Very impressive. Because he really tells horses what to do with nothing but his body language. And the horse, as a herding animal, will submit to whoever takes the lead, without much discussion. Velten: And does he work with any horse or just with his own? Falkner: He demonstrates this with many different horses, some of which he doesn’t even know. In America he has a big ranch where he takes in problematic horses that he then trains. There are many people who handle horses badly because they cannot even handle other people. Velten: Is that so? Falkner: Of course. And these horses are often traumatized. Velten: But doesn’t it make sense that very manly men with a lust for power would succeed at handling horses forcefully – or does it not work that way at all? Falkner: I would say that depends very much on the type of horse. There are horses that let themselves be dominated and they accept this enforced and violent style up to a point. Velten: Do you mean particular breeds? Falkner: No, different characters. I wouldn’t confine it to particular breeds. And there are horses whose souls are destroyed by it, just like with people. One day they don’t leave their boxes anymore, they get sick. I’d say the physical illness often follows the psychological. And Monty Roberts attempts to help horses like these. No doubt it works to some degree. Velten: And do you think Monty Roberts could achieve something similar with people? Falkner: Certainly, after all he had many foster children, kids from difficult backgrounds; I think he must be a great guy on a personal level as well. Velten: And is he married? Falkner: I think so, yeah. He has kids of his own too. You can read all of that up on his website. Velten: How old is he now? Falkner: He must be going on 70. Velten: And how did he get into this line of work? Was he a horse trainer too? Falkner: He developed his methods from his experience with horses. He grew up in the cowboy scene in America; his father was a professional cowboy. Back then the breaking in of horses was a violent affair. That shocked the young man so much that he asked himself: “why does it have to be this way? Why break in a horse while destroying its soul? There must be another way”. So he tried to do it differently and he realised that things change the moment you let the horse’s soul live. Velten: And is breaking in still a brutal process? Falkner: I don’t think so, not these days, a lot has changed over the past hundred years. Velten: Breaking in means riding a horse for the first time, right?
Falkner: Yes, it’s an American term. Velten: And it’s about breaking the horse’s will, isn’t it? Falkner: That’s right. Velten: Have you ever ‘broken in’ a wild horse? Falkner: No. In all my dealings with horses I’ve never experienced that because it can really get dangerous. I don’t know why they do it this way in America, or whether they still do it today. I just don’t know, today it is no longer an officially recognised method. It’s fatally dangerous, a horse weighs 600 kilos, you don’t stand a chance if they crush you. Velten: So you just sit on a wild horse and then what? Falkner: These days one tries to let the horse get used to the saddle first, or even a blanket to begin with. And if you do this gradually, day after day, teaching a horse to carry a rider eventually is not a problem. Horses are very complacent, good-hearted animals and on a normal level they will do most things you ask them to. If a horse really did not want a rider, they wouldn’t let us, for they know very well how strong they are and what methods they have to get rid of their riders. Velten: They know that? Falkner: Of course they know that. If you irritate them, horses often know instantly what to do. So if one wants to be safe and enjoy riding, one is well advised to treat the animals well. One always hears of accidents with people who haven’t followed this simple rule. And in those cases, I have to say, I can’t really feel sorry for them. Velten: I’d like to talk about Winnie the Pooh again.
This booklet is part of the Monograph of Haus am Gern ISBN 978-3-9523691-1-1 Author: Till Velten, www.velten-berlin.org Conversations with: Ursula Toussaint, Freiburg/St. Georgen, 10.6.2010 Virginia Wolf/Rosa Erhard/Ann-Kathrin, Kappel, 4.5.2010 Monika Falkner, Freiburg/St. Georgen, 18.6.2010 Design: Katja Pfleger Photographs: Katja Pfleger and privat zVg
All the work you put in to train him and teach him all these shapes and movements. Now he has died, where are all these shapes? Does he take them with him, in his consciousness or his soul? Falkner: He takes them with him, of course. Although when the body is gone all that is gone too, obviously. But the journey is the destination when working with horses. You always have a goal but once you have reached it there will be something else you’d like to improve. There are so many never-ending ways of working on one’s relationship with a horse. Even with a 25 year old horse you can still learn new things and achieve great results. Velten: And is your husband already searching for a new horse, or was that the end of a chapter for him? Falkner: Someday he would like another but for now we have two and he can ride one of the others. I don’t think there is any hurry. Velten: Another question: how do you find a horse? What is the process of finding each other, of knowing that you want a horse and the horse wants you? How does that happen? Falkner: First you look at the needs of the rider in question. My husband for example needs a calm, reliable horse, a horse without bad experiences in its past. Then you start looking around, it just has to fit the rider and the situation. If I only have time to ride three times a week, I can’t take a warmblooded horse because they need more exercise. First you look around at what’s on offer and you might find something on the internet or in a newspaper or by word of mouth. The next step is to go there and try out the horse. It’s like with other people, or with dogs: you either connect or you don’t, you’re either attracted or not. Sometimes you know just from looking at a horse: no, this won’t work, no need to even sit on it. Though sometimes you might sit on a horse that at first glance you thought wasn’t your type, but then you
do it anyway. Velten: And why is it still something exceptional to eat horse meat, where does the disgust and aversion come from which many people have? It’s strange, I once ate meat that tasted wonderful and when afterwards the cook told me it was horse meat I felt uncomfortable about it. Why is it like that? Falkner: I think it’s because of the special relationship that can develop between humans and horses, although I’d say we could build this sort of relationship with a pig or a cow as well. Velten: Do you think so? Falkner: Yes, certainly. Pigs are unbelievably intelligent. And if you keep a piglet from birth, that’s like owning a dog. The same might be possible with a cow, except that they seem more reserved. Perhaps it is possible on some level with any animal. But the relationship of rider and mount, the common experiences that bind the two, make it impossible for many people to eat horse meat. Velten: You don’t eat it either? Falkner: No, although I must say, I’m sure it’s a very healthy meat. It is probably a meat one would prefer a million times over that of a pig reared, as they often are, on chemicals and antibiotics. It’s just the relationship with the animal that’s the difficulty, so of course we don’t eat it.
Velten: Ok, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with me. Falkner: Thanks, it was a pleasure.