The Issue of Courtship by Help! I have a desperate problem

The Issue of Courtship Navigating the teen dating scene

The Madonna/Whore Complex Louise O’Neill, speaking on I Am Irish, 7 April 2016

I felt like I didn’t fit in. I felt like I had, just different expectations for how my life was going to work out. And I think that is probably a hangover from the control that the Catholic Church had on us, that you know, you would get married, obviously that would be to someone of the opposite sex, and that you would have children, that you would buy a house, that you would have a job, from the age of about eight or nine, I wasn’t sure that I was interested in any of that. I do think that there has been very strange ideas about what a real woman should be within Irish culture, and that definitely a result of the stranglehold that the Church has had on this country. The idea that we were encouraged to venerate Mary as an ideal woman, a woman who had fulfilled her intrinsic duty as a woman by giving birth, because, you know, we all know that those in possession of a womb have to fill it as quickly as possible, but hadn’t defiled herself by actually having sex. And it was such a confusing message. When they talk about the Madonna/Whore complex, it sort of made manifest of this idea that you should be a mother without having sex. And I found that very confusing as a teenager because I was obsessed with sex, that was all I could think about. I thought that there must be something wrong with me because the message that I was getting was that that was ok, but only for boys.

Age for dating? I’d say sixteen in groups, seventeen when you have three or four boys to choose from and not get serious over, eighteen when you meet a boy you’d like to have around for a while, and twenty when you think it’s for keeps. — September 1966

I’D LIKE TO HAVE YOUR OPINION ON THE OLD-FASHIONED OUTLOOK OF MY PARENTS. THEY ALLOW ME ONLY ONE LATE NIGHT EACH WEEK, ALTHOUGH I KNOW MANY GIRLS OF MY AGE WHO ARE LET STAY OUT UNTIL COCK-CROW AS OFTEN AS THEY LIKE. MY MOTHER IS SO VICTORIAN THAT SHE INSISTS THAT WHEN A BOY TAKES ME OUT HE MUST CALL TO MY HOME FOR ME, EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE MORE CONVENIENT IF WE MET SOME PLACE IN TOWN. YOU’VE NO IDEA HOW THIS SILLY CARRY-ON GETS ME DOWN.

I have, as I have said, a very clear idea. But until she is older and wiser, this girl cannot be expected to realise her parents’ rules and advice emanate from their protective love of her, and from their knowledge of the pitfalls into which the unwary and the untutored so often stumble. The girls who “are let stay out until cock-crow as often as they like” are to be pitied. Obviously, their parents have no real interest in their welfare. And the mother’s insistence that her daughter’s escort call for her at home is not stuffy Victorianism but (a) a commonsense precaution against the humiliation a girl would suffer were she to be kept waiting for her boyfriend in a public place, and (b) a very natural and laudable wish to meet the escort and to assure herself that he is acceptable. Difficult though the aggrieved teenager may find it to accept, she may take it from me that this rule will work out to her advantage: boys respect the girl who is obviously prized by her family. — August 1964

WE ARE TWO GIRLS OF 20, AND OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE JUST CANNOT GET A NICE LAD. WE HAVE BEEN WITH LOTS OF BOYS BUT ALL THEY WANT IS A GOOD TIME AND IF YOU DO NOT GIVE IN TO THEM THEY WON’T ASK YOU FOR ANOTHER DATE. WE ARE GETTING WORRIED THAT WE WILL BE LEFT ON THE SHELF IF WE DON’T GIVE IN TO THEM. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? DOES A BOY LIKE YOU IF HE CARRIES ON LIKE THIS?

He does if you let him, but he’s not likely to marry you. The chances are that you’ll be left on the shelf if you do give in to these boys, and left with a baby too. Why can’t you see that boys who demand “a good time” of the kind you suggest are not worth the time you take to refuse them? A second date from them shouldn’t be even wanted. There are some nice boys around, and by nice I mean boys who wait until you’re doing a line before making demands of this kind, and who can take refusal, or an explanation, or an understanding about it in their stride. — July 1968

WE ARE TWO VERY MIXED UP GIRLS. WE ARE VERY MUCH IN LOVE WITH A SHOW BAND SINGER BUT IT IS JUST GETTING US NOWHERE. EVERY TIME WE SEE HIM ON TELEVISION, OR IN A MAGAZINE, WE JUST GO OFF OUR HEADS. WE WERE AT A DANCE THE OTHER NIGHT AND HE WINKED AT US. WE WERE NOT ABLE TO DANCE FOR THE REST OF THE NIGHT. WE JUST SAT WITH OUR MOUTHS OPEN LOOKING AT HIM, IN THE NEXT WORLD YOU MIGHT SAY. DON’T MIND MY WRITING AS I AM LOOKING AT A PHOTO OF HIM AT THE SAME TIME.

Where do you expect your love for this show band singer to get you? One wink doesn’t mean he’s really noticed you, although I’m sure the sight of two young girls sitting with their mouths open in a dance hall must be pretty noticeable! And think of all the nice lads you might have danced with, but couldn’t just because another man had (ugh!) winked at you… At you both, which makes it worse. You must be great pals to be so ready to share with one another this great passion. Poor you, you’ve just got to work this out of your system. For a start, close your mouth, and turn that photograph to the wall… — September 1965

I AM THE ONLY GIRL IN OUR SET WHO HAS NO STEADY BOYFRIEND. MEN SEEM TO FIND ME ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE I AM OFTEN ASKED OUT. BUT AFTER TWO OR THREE DATES THEY DROP ME. I CAN TRUTHFULLY SAY I AM AS GOODLOOKING AS THE AVERAGE GIRL AND MORE INTELLIGENT THAN MOST. I LOVE BOOKS, AND I CAN TALK WELL ON MOST SUBJECTS. IN FACT, ONE OF MY CHIEF PLEASURES IS GOOD CONVERSATION. I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY GIRLS WHO ARE REAL NIT-WITS NEVER SEEM TO LACK DATES.

The quality which is an asset at school or in a career may easily be a handicap in courtship. The “dumb blonde” has become the prototype of the girl who never lacks followers. My correspondent’s gift for conversation may very well be the reason why she is neglected in favour of her less intelligent friends. In this age of supposed equality of the sexes, the average man prefers the company of “the little woman” whose lack of brains build up his ego. He would much rather be listened to than to be talked at or with. If my Waterford friend is not prepared to wait, lonely and neglected, with the hope that she may one day meet that rare creature, the man who values intelligence in a woman, she must reconcile herself to the admittedly ignoble course of hiding her intelligence. — September 1963

A so-called “French kiss” is of such a sentimental and intimate nature that its purpose is sexual rather than affectionate. As such a kiss is a preliminary to the marriage act, such intimacy is seriously sinful for unmarried people. — April 1964

A kiss in itself is not wrong. But you must examine the motive and the result. After thinking a bit about why these boys kiss you, and where you will end up if you continue along these lines, I imagine you will not throw your kisses away so freely. A kiss should be a sign of love or genuine affection. A boy cannot possibly love a girl who he has dated only once or twice. Therefore if he insists on kissing her, his kiss is more a symbol of selfish lust than of love. By insisting against her wishes he shows little respect for her. If you refuse to let a boy kiss you on your first few dates together, and, as a result, he leaves you in order to find selfsatisfaction with another girl, have you lost much? I simply do not believe that a boy who is really attracted to you will drop you because you don’t kiss him. Men are born hunters, and the harder it is to win worthwhile prey, the more stimulating the hunt! Where many girls fall down is that the only thing they have to offer boys is the fact that they are girls. As companions they are dull, as conversationalists they are uninteresting. They lack originality and humour. As a last resort, on a date with such a girl, the boy tries a kiss. If he doesn’t get that either, he moves onto another girl. A girl’s attraction should cover her complete personality, her interest in life, her femininity, her vitality, and her ability to intrigue the boys and keep them guessing. She doesn’t refuse a kiss by giving a sermon, she merely keeps him thinking that her nearly made it this time — but not quite. The all-round girl keeps the men all round her and has good, clean fun at the same time. — October 1963

MY BOYFRIEND IS SEVENTEEN AND HAS NEVER KISSED ME. WE ENJOY BEING TOGETHER. BUT DO YOU THINK THAT BECAUSE HE DOESN’T KISS ME, HE DOESN’T LOVE ME?

I think that because he shows such respect for you he probably likes you very much. You are a lucky girl! Many girls complain that boys want nothing but kisses on dates an indiscriminate kissing is far from being a sign of love. Enjoy the companionship and fun you have with this boy and don’t dream of provoking him, just to have the selfish satisfaction of being kissed. — September 1964

Give him up! Worried Teenager, you sent me a long letter which I will not reprint. All I need explain is that your boyfriend has wandering hands. Seeing as how you don’t know whether you like him or not, I may say that you’re wise to have knocked off his “excursions” to begin with. If you don’t know whether or not you like him, I’d say you probably enjoy fencing round with him, so it would be just as well to take a rest from the battle and find someone easier to manage. — January 1966

I HAVE BEEN GOING WITH A VERY NICE BOY FOR SIX MONTHS AND I LIKE HIM VERY MUCH. I AM 18 AND HE IS 20. I GO TO CONFESSION AND HOLY COMMUNION ONCE A WEEK BUT LAST SUNDAY OUR PARISH PRIEST GAVE A SERMON AND SAID HE DID NOT THINK IT NECESSARY TO GO TO CONFESSION EVERY WEEK. WHAT WORRIED ME IS THAT WHEN I GO OUT WITH MY BOYFRIEND HE USUALLY KISSES ME A FEW TIMES AND THEN I THINK I MUST GO TO CONFESSION BEFORE I GO TO HOLY COMMUNION. IS IT NECESSARY TO GO TO CONFESSION AFTER EVERY DAY BEFORE GOING TO COMMUNION?

I would like to think that you could ask the P.P. who gave this sermon to advise you on this problem. My opinion is a very personal one, and it depends on you what you think is a sin. You must not receive Communion if you believe you have a sin on your soul. “A few kisses” couldn’t amount to sinning unless you believe you were doing wrong. You know that you don’t commit to a sin without knowing it. The knowledge is what makes it sinful. If you feel guilty about your behaviour on a date, go to Confession, and then discuss your conversation with the priest with your boyfriend. Be sure to let him in on your worries. But I don’t think you need to worry too much. — April 1965

MY BOYFRIEND AND I, BOTH IN OUR LATE-20S ARE CONSIDERING LIVING TOGETHER. WE ARE BUILDING A HOUSE AND WE’VE ASKED MY PARENTS WHO ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH THE IDEA OF LIVING TOGETHER. I ASKED A PRIEST I KNOW AND HE WAS TOTALLY AGAINST IT. I DON’T WANT TO DO ANY WRONG. WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ABOUT “LIVING TOGETHER”?

If both of you decide to move in together and are happy about it, then it’s a fine decision. But why are you so concerned with seeking other people’s opinions? I can understand why you discussed it with your families and perhaps also your priest but they can’t decide for you. The more people you ask the more confused you might become. The talking now needs to be done between both of you. How do you both feel about living together? What are the qualms or concerns you have about it and what are the advantages? One practical advantage is that you do have a house which you’ve both already invested in. So go for it if it’s what both of you really want! — August 1994

The 16-year-old who wrote to me anonymously had been sexually active for some time and she was going to continue. She most certainly wasn’t typical of her age group and I was not answering her as an average 16-year-old. Since I couldn’t reach her by a private letter, she would go on running the risk of pregnancy with every chance she took. She had the head-in-the-sand outlook of a teenager, but the sexual precocity of someone much older. She would be quite unable to think any further than a year at most and moral arguments would have had no effect at all. They had failed her already, hadn’t they? The medical discovery about cervical cancer being one possible result of regular early sex (you should remember it, too) just might have made her wake up to the danger of what she was doing. Most 16-year-olds are not like this. I’m not saying they don’t think about sex, or want to respond, but they see it differently. Sex isn’t just a three letter word. As an intelligent, sensitive woman it will be part of the way you think about yourself and an extremely important, personal choice. It should be precious and part of a mature, committed relationship where it’s equally valued, preferably marriage. In other words, it’s certainly not for you yet, as you instinctively realise. — July 1984

I HAVE A SHORT, BUT VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT A “FRENCH LETTER” IS.

It’s a contraceptive. — March 1965

Difficult as it may be to accept, I don’t think this fella is interested in a relationship with you. If he was, he has had plenty of time to ask you out and get to know you. Instead, he has childishly told his friend that he’s just interested in your body and in sex with you. And presumably he asked his friend to pass on the message. What age is this fella? He sounds extremely immature. You’d be better off having nothing at all to do with him. You made a good decision on the night you did go out together as you know how far you were happy to let things develop between you. Trust your judgment and don’t be fooled into thinking that agreeing to have sex with this fella guarantees a relationship with him. It doesn’t! — August 1994

Agony Aunt columns: Taken from Brand New Retro blog and Womanâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s Way archives at the National Library of Ireland Photos: Designerâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s own Various quotes from an accompanying film, interviewing Irish women of different ages

The Madonna/Whore Complex Louise O’Neill, speaking on I Am Irish, 7 April 2016

My Journey to Feminism Louise O’Neill, for The Guardian, 21 January 2015

I was 15 when I first used the F-word. It’s difficult now, when the biggest female popstars in the world proudly call themselves feminists, to explain how alone that made me feel. I didn’t have an online community such as Rookie or Jezebel or xoJane to reassure me that there were other girls out there who felt the same as I did; all I had was a tattered copy of The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood and Hole’s Live Through This, and I held them close to my heart like a talisman. Being a feminist in 2000 was not cool. Friends told me that Courtney Love was crazy and that everyone knew that Kurt Cobain had really written Live Through This. They said feminists burned their bras, hated men, and believed that all forms of sex were rape. I tried to become more informed, taking modules in gender and sexuality studies at university, reading Germaine Greer and Hélène Cixous and Susan Faludi, and although I did become increasingly confident about proclaiming myself a feminist, it is clear to me now that I still didn’t understand what it meant. Here are some things that I did in my teens and early twenties, while still identifying as a feminist: While identifying as a feminist, I was the human embodiment of the Cool Girl/ Manic Pixie Dream Girl. I was determined to seem easy-going and relaxed. Nothing fazed me. I didn’t want to be one of “those girls” who were demanding and high maintenance and needy. While identifying as a feminist, I said things like “Don’t be such a girl,” and “Girls are bitches, I prefer hanging out with guys, there’s less drama.” While identifying as a feminist, I believed the media when they said that false claims of rape were common and that men’s lives were ruined by it.

While identifying as a feminist, I went home with a boy. I told him to stop, and he kept going. He tore my legs and my heart apart, but afterwards I said nothing. I told myself it was my fault. I had been drinking. I had been wearing a short skirt. I had gone to his bedroom. I had been asking for it. While identifying as a feminist, I enforced strict gender roles with my boyfriend, expecting him to pay for our meals and to take care of me emotionally. If he expected that support in return, I somehow felt that made him “less of a man.” While identifying as a feminist, I starved myself and made myself vomit after meals in order to satisfy an idea of what I thought an attractive woman should look like. I called myself a feminist, but in truth, I was buying into the patriarchy. I was internalising all of that misogyny, making it my own, making it my truth, and I didn’t even realise it. I would like to tell you that it’s easier these days but I have to admit that it’s still not completely innate. The manacles of a lifetime of cultural conditioning that has tried to convince me that gender is a biological fact rather than a social construct are more difficult to shake off than I would like. At a friend’s wedding, the groom choked up during his speech and I felt uncomfortable. A girlfriend called someone the C-word and I thought, “That’s not vey ladylike”. After a particularly gruelling therapy session I had a fight with my mother for failing to take care of me after a family member had died when I was 14, and my father said, “Why didn’t you expect me to take care of you?” The answer came far too quickly – because he was only my father. I expected my mother to nurture me, to be better, simply because she was the woman. And we do that, don’t we? We hold women up to a higher moral standard, we tell them to be nice, to protect their virginities, to be the gatekeepers. We expect them to be “good girls”. That’s why I wrote Only Ever Yours. I wrote it because I felt tired. I wrote it because I felt intrinsically ashamed of the parts of myself that made me female. I wrote it because I felt a bit broken. I wrote it because I wanted to start a conversation about how we see and treat women. This is what feminism is about. It’s not about witch covens or misandry or drinking Male Tears (as fun as all those things sound). It’s about equality. It is about creating a world where gender stereotypes don’t weigh heavily on either men or women or anyone in between, where we are all free to be ourselves without recrimination for failing to conform to a certain idea of what masculinity or femininity represents.o come with me, teenage girl. Let me hold your hand. Let us say it together. “I am a woman. I am a feminist. And I am proud to be both.”