12 minute read
Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
Dear
Navidaters, I started dating relatively recently, and I see a huge discrepancy between what my parents are looking for and what I am looking for. My parents are more yeshivish than me and are looking for the perfect package. They want a family more like my family religiously but I couldn’t care less if, for example, my future father-in-law wears a hat. I couldn’t care less if my mother-in-law covers her hair. The list goes on.
I feel powerless because my parents are determined to take care of my shidduchim themselves. They say it is how it’s done, and if done differently, I will be ostracized by shadchanim.
First of all, is this true? Will I really be ostracized for taking care of my own shidduchim? And how can I manage to convince them to be more open-minded when looking into ideas?
Thank you,
Rachel*
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
Rachel, it’s time to improve communication with your parents. It sounds like you are communicating, and there is a level of acceptance in your home which are both good things and speak well of all of you. However, it needs to go further and deeper.
Communication skills, including listening skills, are useful in dating, adult life, and family life. Learn to share as well as hear, instead of focusing on convincing.
Negotiating is also a good technique to master. Understanding that each gets something they want is vital in negotiation. It is something that young adults don’t easily understand. When I did workshops on negotiating skills for seminary students in my life skills series, I found that it was very easily confused with compromising. Negotiating involves recognizing and acknowledging the position of the other person. You try to figure out their needs, which you also try to meet in some way. The goal is to achieve outcomes in which both sides leave with something. Negotiation skills are something you can work on, with help or on your own.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
Firstly, I would like to let you know that you are not alone.
There are many singles I deal with who are in the same boat as you. I have had conversations with singles who ask me to ignore a parent’s description of what that single is looking for and to listen to the single him/ herself.
Your parents really do love you, but for the sake of your sanity, you must get onto the same page. You do not know about all the conversations your mother is having at the supermarket with Rebbetzin Shprintzy or Mrs. Feldenstein, who dabble in shidduchim, giving over false information.
I recently had a mother call and berate me, asking what in the world I was thinking, sending a boy who wore a blue shirt to date her daughter.
She went on to say, “I kept telling myself when the couple left, ‘What was Mrs. Mond thinking?’”
She then continued by saying that under no uncertain terms may this shidduch continue, and that I should relay a “no” to the other side. He was just not the package they were looking for.
Meanwhile, when I spoke to the 25-year-old woman herself, she was beside herself.
“This was honestly the best date I have ever had, but I feel bad. He’s just not the black/white look my family is used to,” she concluded.
How terrible I felt for this woman! I had just spoken to her a month prior regarding shidduchim when she relayed she hadn’t had a date in six months. I would like to use this forum to implore the parents who are reading this to please do their daughters a favor and get on the same page. Listen to your children. You might have an ideal image of what your family is looking for, but if your child is not looking for that, you will find yourselves running in circles. Additionally, you will confuse shadchanim and references. When people call to ask what your daughter is looking for, they will have the wrong idea, perpetuating a cycle of “no”s by the very type your child is actually looking for.
As for you, dear Rachel, I recommend you sit down with your family rav and explain the predicament you are in. This is serious, and it is preventing you from meeting the type of men you are interested in. Furthermore, the conundrum is cutting your prospects slim based on external details which mean nothing to you. Any levelheaded rav will see your side in this and explain to your parents the proper derech to take with regards to dealing properly with your shidduchim.
The Single
Rivka Weinberg
Rachel, it’s beautiful that your parents are so invested in your shidduchim. I will make the assumption that your parents want what they believe is best for you and what will help you succeed. It sounds like in your community it’s a common approach for your parents to be heavily involved in your shidduchim. As frustrating as it may be, try and understand their intentions and reasons behind their method. Our parents spend a tremendous amount of time, energy, and money providing and caring for us. It’s crucial to show an endless amount of hakaras hatov and to respectfully hear them out.
With that being said, it’s important for you to find your own voice in the process. You’re looking for your husband, so you should express your concerns and needs. I will point out that, many times, due to an information deficit, we think we know what is best for us when that may not be the reality. Although there are things you say you don’t care about with regard to the boy’s family, you may go out with these boys and realize otherwise. I have heard that when two people share a similar background, it becomes a more relatable process. Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t marry someone who comes from a different place than you. It’s just something to consider.
At the end of the day, if you believe you’re old enough to get married, then should be mature enough to decide for yourself what qualities are most important to you in a spouse and how his family should play a role. I don’t think you will be ostracized by shadchanim. If anything, I think you will be viewed as a responsible girl who is putting her best foot forward and taking initiative.
It’s important to have someone to speak to throughout the process to act as a sounding board. I don’t think anyone should go through the dating process alone. If you speak with your parents and you feel they are not receptive to what you are saying, then reach out to a rav, rebbetzin, or mentor to get another opinion and help you navigate the situation.
I wish you much hatzlacha in the process and remember that Hakadosh Baruch Hu has already hand-selected your zivug, so turn to Him for guidance and clarity!
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
You really do have a problem here.
Today’s shadchan/matrimony system has positives and negatives. The system seems adequate when a shadchan tries to match two people with similar backgrounds. For example, they’re good at setting up dates when both parties have yeshivish-type backgrounds or both have YU-type backgrounds.
However, when a young lady from a yeshivish background (like you, Rachel) wants to date someone who is more “modern” (like a YU-type of young man), the system doesn’t function well.
Imagine this scenario: your shadchan calls a top-tier YU boy and suggests he take you out on a date. His response is likely to be, “She sounds wonderful, but no thank you. She and I are likely to have different ideas, different worldviews, different goals
and aspirations, and even a different vocabulary for discussing things. Please only set me up with girls who have backgrounds similar to mine and who went to similar schools and camps.”
So, what should you do? I have three possible suggestions:
You can continue doing what you are now doing, with your parents involved with the shadchan, and hope you find a young man who, like you, would like to shift to a slightly more modern spot on the religious spectrum.
You can bypass the shadchan system, and go online, and attend virtual or actual singles events, under the auspices of reputable organizations.
You can get a job, find some roommates, and move to an apartment in Washington Heights, the Upper West Side, or similar neighborhoods, where singles meet in shul, at Shabbos lunches, and at dinners.
Good luck!
Pulling It All Together
The Navidaters Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists
Dear Rachel, We are all raised with certain values and belief systems. While I can certainly understand your parents’ trepidation and hesitation to have you go outside their norm, I can also tell you that I have worked with countless men and women who have taken matters into their own hands due to a plethora of reasons. Most reasonable shadchanim understand that peoples’ lives are layered and complicated, and oftentimes, a young man or woman dating has to do the legwork because of differences he/she has with parents. You aren’t the first, nor will you be the last. Are there shadchanim who may bat at an eye? Maybe…I couldn’t say. Only you get to decide what is most important to you: the opinions of others or doing what you believe to be right in your heart and gut.
I want to address one practical piece here, above all else. There are so many fine, newly yeshivish/ machmo, etc. (my goodness, there are so many labels nowadays) young men and women who come from more modern homes or completely nonobservant homes. To exclude all these fabulous men and women from the pool of potential basherts seems silly to me. Because his mother doesn’t cover her hair? Or his father watches a baseball game on Sunday? This is yet another way we have made dating and getting married so much harder and more challenging than it needs to be. And it truly boils down to what the neighbors will say and a family’s reputation. And yes, people do like to talk. So, I can understand where your parents are coming from. They are most likely worried about you and your reputation because there will be those people who talk, and they genuinely want to shield you from this because they love you. However, when those people grow tired of talking about you, they will be onto the next person to judge. It makes me sad, and I know it makes many others sad as well. This holier than thou attitude keeps people single for so much longer than is necessary. It’s toxic and detrimental to shidduchim.
I don’t want to upset any likeminded parents with this column. However, if an adult child is mature enough to get married, then he/she is certainly mature enough to choose his/her hashkafah, as it is his/her life. Our role as parents is to present a certain lifestyle to our children, but it is not our job to force it upon them as they become adults.
Rachel, you mentioned that you are parents are more yeshivish than you are. Do your parents know this? I understood from your email that you want to convince them to allow you to date a boy from a more modern home. But what about the boy? And what about you? Where do you hold for your life? What kind of home do you see yourself creating hashkafically? If you have your clarity, then you need to talk to your parents and share with them who you are and what you want for your life and your marriage. You cannot marry someone who fits the mold for your parents. That is most likely a recipe for disaster! If you’re uncertain where you’re holding, you may want to take some time for some self-introspection before you begin dating. It’s not about convincing them to be more open-minded about the family or the boy. it’s about sharing who you are with them and hopefully them growing to accept you as you are. And you are completely worthy of acceptance!
If you’ve already had a heart-toheart with them, you can invite them to have some family sessions with a therapist who can help them work toward acceptance. Everyone wins when parents accept who their adult children are.
The kugel is baked, folks! Job well done. Now you get to enjoy the finished product... there is no more adding ingredients or putting it back in the oven to cook a little longer. When adult children sense that their parents do not approve of who they are and their personal decisions, they grow to resent their parents and ultimately take as much space as they need. And that is always a tragedy.
If your parents cannot accept who you are and what you are looking for, my gut tells me you will have no choice but to take matters into your own hands and reach out to shadchanim yourself. Either way, you must live your authentic life for yourself. Be true to yourself while being polite and respectful to your parents. It’s a beautiful balance to strike, and it can be done. But you can only control your actions. You do your part, and I hope your parents will follow suit.
All the best, Jennifer Mann, LCSW
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
