in conversation with
In conversation with Christophe Evers
JOAQUIN PECCI in conversation with
Christophe Evers
JP : This passion of yours for African Art ….. how did it start? CE : With a birthday present from my father: a Tiwara piece he had found at a small auction
in 1984. Next thing I had bought a book to learn more on the subject and after that I visited the Tervuren Museum.
JP: So then it’s this Tiwara piece which got you started … before that you took no interest
in African Art… ? CE: I have always been interested in Art. My father collected the Flemish expressionists, as for myself, I was interested in Art in a general way, but not particularly in African Art.
JP: How long did it take before you yourself purchased your very first piece? CE: About a year or so. I also bought my first piece at an auction, a sale at Horta
Auctioneers. After the furniture, the china and all sorts of other objects the very last lot was a Kuba pipe and there was no one to bid for it except myself.
JP: Do you still have that piece? CE: No, I sold it. I buy a lot and I have to part with some pieces in order to buy others.
My collection is permanently changing and so does my taste: one must accept to part with certain pieces. I obviously regret this since it’s often the best pieces which are sold- when one is in need of cash- , or exchanged - when one makes an agreement with an art dealer. If I came across some of these again today I could eventually buy them back…
JP: You have focused on Nigeria and the Congo for a long time but I notice you are open
to other options. Which are your priorities today and what else are you interested in? CE: I’m always very keen on Nigeria. In fact, I’ve just purchased an important Yoruba piece. My attention was first drawn to important art pieces made by the Dogon and the Baoulé and also Dan and Fang masks- in other words, objects which were virtually untouchable. But at that time, Nigerian objects were equivalent in quality and yet sold at more convenient prices, so I began to collect those. I bought my first worthwhile piece at a sale at Christie’s in London, it was an Ibibio mask. I had taken a flight to go to this sale – there was no Eurostar at the time. It so happened I came across Louis de Strycker at the cocktail at Christie’s. We had a long talk and he encouraged me to buy at the sale. Actually, this was the sale where Jean Paul Barbier bought his Benin head. I started purchasing at public sales because I found this more reassuring: on the one hand because I had the catalog with the price estimates, so I knew, automatically, which were the objects I could afford and focus on and which I could simply set aside. Moreover, this was also a way for me to come in close contact with African Art world in a relatively anonymous way. On the other hand, because I felt uneasy whenever I went to the art galleries in the Sablon. At the time I had tried to approach some of them but had been discouraged by the attitude of certain art dealers. I was starting with relatively modest means, the objects that I liked were too expensive for me and I felt ill at ease. I wasn’t made welcome in art dealer circles. However, I persevered and, once they saw I was in earnest and keen, and that, in fine, I ended up by buying, their attitude changed.
JP: From whom did you buy first? CE: From someone who has left the dealer milieu for quite a time now, Mon. Steyaert on Rue Lebeau. I bought him an earthenware Tchowké head. The ice was broken then and I believe everyone on the Sablon knows me by now.
JP: You’ve bought from all the Sablon dealers whereas, for the most part, art collectors generally buy from one only dealer. CE: Yes, I’ve bought from almost everyone , in any case, I go see everyone . I’m very enthusiastic and I tend to buy very quickly if the item pleases me.
JP: Books are also very important for your collection … CE: Absolutely. My library numbers, to date, some three thousand books plus all the
magazines and public sale catalogs published from the 70’s onwards. It is important for me to have a library for two reasons. The first is I’m interested in the meaning the pieces had for those who created them, and so I’m interested in ethnographic literature, I like to make out the context in which the object has been made. I try to read books, which specialize in one ethnic group or one particular region. But I also have general interest books for the sake of the photographs. Which actually leads to the second reason: it is most important to see lots of objects – to see them at the art dealers’, at the museum, at auction exhibitions and also in books, the idea is, somehow, to take one’s measure. What’s more, on several occasions I have found objects bought by me in publications, which had never been mentioned at the time of purchase.
JP: You are fond of the research side of things … CE: Yes, very much so. I also teach at university…. my sister teaches history of art and is a curator … There are definitely academic genes in the family. My love for Africa goes beyond the art objects themselves. I travel to Africa often and I believe that trying to understand why and how these pieces were made is somehow a form of respect for these objects.
JP: Do you think you could live without your African art pieces? CE: No, I simply couldn’t do without them. I’m lucky now to have a very big place where I can exhibit my objects. But I’ve already lived in smaller places and a great part of my collection had to be stored away. Yet I have always felt this need to keep a minimum of objects permanently with me. I simply cannot live without” objets d’art”, in particular, African objets d’art. Everyday I study my pieces and every day and I rediscover them. Very often I find myself liking an object more than I did before, or, as it happened in my early days, I find that one of them is a fake. Fortunately, this sort of thing happens very s eldom now. By dint of observing carefully, going to museums, visiting the right dealers and reading, one day, you understand, there’s a click – otherwise, you should start collecting something else.
JP: Are you an open-minded art collector? CE: Yes. I like a variety of things. I have been to Bruges recently to see the Flemish
primitives, to London for a Damien Hirst exhibition at the Tate Modern, to Paris for the Helmut Newton exhibition and also to rediscover the Italian gallery at the Louvre … I have some Chinese furniture pieces at home and also some ancient art objects, some Aboriginal paintings from Australia… I would like to collect many things but I simply can’t both for financial reasons and also lack of time. As for African Art, I am very open . I started with East Nigeria – the Mumuye, the Chambas, the Jukuns – then Tanzania. Today, for instance, I buy objects from the Ivory Coast because they sell for more accessible prices than they did twenty years ago. I had a chance to purchase a Baoulé statue, a Dan mask from the Verité Collection, a Senoufo “déblé” … for very reasonable prices.
JP: To what extent is the origin important? CE: Not very. I like to look up and learn where the item comes from. This is part of my research work but I’m not ready to pay much more for a particular origin. Today, when I buy an object I don’t need to know about its origin. I know that possessing an item, which comes from a well-known collection, is a way of keeping ties with the collection as a whole, but this is not essential. Art pieces speak for themselves. I see this with some of my neophyte acquaintances who immediately identify the best pieces of my collection. There is a universal intrinsic artistic quality that many people concerned are able to perceive.
JP: What do think of prices attained in public sales for tribal art? CE: I must say I’m concerned by the subject and in fact the last book I bought deals
precisely with this matter. I believe that, today, we have a double market. We are witnessing a phenomenon, which is similar to that of contemporary art: there is a limited number of items which are sold for prices bearing no comparison to values quoted for the rest of the market. The market for these “exceptional” pieces attracts a certain type of art collector. Such people are very often quite ignorant of the subject and are the same ones who purchase major works from famous modern artists. Their fortunes amount to thousands of millions and their means are beyond comparison to those of the remaining art collectors -including the wealthier ones. They buy only what they are told are the best Fang or Songye; as a result these items automatically attain sky high values which bear no relation with those of the “second best” items. I look on this situation with a certain amount of detachment since these two markets are like two different worlds which eventually coexist but never really meet up.
JP: How do you think the market will develop? CE: I’m quite confident. There are lots of objects on the market and they don’t vanish
into thin air. There are practically no more objects leaving Africa now but those which are here keep turning up regularly. In my opinion, the only serious danger strives from fakes. It’s a market which might easily be undermined like the Oriental art market. The new art collectors who buy from seemingly well established art galleries are prone to be put off and very easily discouraged if they buy objects which eventually turn out to be fakes or even genuine items but of a more recent make and consequently lesser value. There is, today, an organized system manoeuvering to promote fakes via exhibitions and books and this should definitely be openly denounced. On the other hand, one musn’t mix genuine and fake with antique and less antique. Take, for instance, this sculpture from Madagascar that I have. I’ve named it the “party girl”. She is ostensibly dancing and singing but … in a bikini. It’s very amusing; I find this sculpture is quite extraordinary and I love this “adapting culture” aspect . The bikinis appeared in the 50’ with the first nuclear trials over the Bikini Atoll . This item is, to my mind, genuine, since it was made by the locals for their own private use. It’s a wonderful, graceful sculpture totally eroded,and which includes a modern, imported element.
JP: You don’t therefore, particularly care for the “politically correct”? CE: No. The only art piece in my collection shown at the Tervuren Museum for the
Persona Exhibition is a Pende mask representing a European. I did not acquire it because it represents a European but because it is the work of an excellent sculptor with a strong, personal, individual style. But my collection is essentially different …
JP: You show deep affection for this continent. It’s probably due to your frequent travels,
you know what life in Africa really is today … CE: One must respect a certain code of ethics when collecting African Art. We often have a very negative image of Africa: famine, wars, dictatorships … It’s very important for us Westerners to show and appreciate African Art, whether it be sculpture, music , dance or painting. It is a real shame that African elites show no interest for their age-old art. To the extent that they allow their museums to be looted … I hope this may change once their economic situation improves. Like in China, where we clearly see that those Chinese who are wealthy enough are now buying back their art pieces. For the moment this is obviously the last thing the Africans will worry about. But we notice that, already, in some areas where the economic situation is slightly sounder, there is renewed interest in Art. In the Pende region, for instance, an area with a very strong identity, there is now a “Pende revival”: some tribal chieftains are having ancestral masks and sculptures remade.
JP: Which is the main theme in your collection? CE: I am interested in sculpture, in movement in space and this can lead up to very
different things. There is no ethnic group that I don’t like. I could collect art objects from all over the continent. I’m still missing a good Luba piece, and that is simply because I cannot afford it yet. .. I am also very fond of fabrics and contemporary African Art. I have some works by Shula and Chéri Samba. I’m very keen on social realism- a kind of naïve art which deals with serious subjects with a certain amount of humour and impertinence. I have a problem with Art for Art’s sake because I feel it makes no sense and is lacking in depth. I have been educated as a Catholic and am therefore totally impervious to the religious sense of these tribal objects, however, I can sense that they are religious. The sculptor gives special importance to the making of a mask or a fetish. This “ sacred” element is essential to my collection. Some of my friends are staunch religious Christians and they feel ill at ease with these sculptures …Most of the time people ask me if I don’t feel afraid in the midst of all these objects… I explain then that it is like Roman or Gothic Art for us. It’s an Art which is to be considered in its own context. The objects were not meant to be exhibited and collected but had a cultural function and were made to the glory of their ancestors and that of the chieftain’s dynasty. And it is precisely this which makes them interesting. Not all African sculptors are artists but each and every one of them will express his own beliefs through his works. We are impressed and moved by a work of art because the artist has managed to convey something he felt deep inside him.
JP: And now the henceforth “cult question” from TAS. If your house is on fire, which art piece do you save from the flames?
CE: The answer should invariably change from day to day … But today it would be a very tough job since the object is extremely heavy: it would be the four headed great spirit of the forest Ijo.
JOAQUIN PECCI Tribal Art