in conversation with
In conversation with Christophe Evers
JOAQUIN PECCI in conversation with
Stephan Herkenhoff
JP : When was your first contact with African art ? SH : That was in the late seventies, when I paid a visit to some friends of my parents who
were art collectors and who combined Modern art with African art in their collection. The first time I went to an exhibition of African Art was in 1984 for the Ife exhibition at the Kunsthaus in Zürich.
JP : What was your background in the way of art and artistic experience ? SH : My father collected old engravings and maps. At the age of 16 I took up painting.
From 1977-1983 I studied medicine in Münster. There I met my future wife, Petra. In addition to our scientific studies we did a lot of painting and, of course, travelled frequently and visited countless art exhibitons. We never stopped travelling, -even after we had our two sons – we took the kids with us to numerous galleries, museums and to see private collections.
JP : At the time, shall we say, you were interested in art as whole? SH : I focused on classical modernism and the avant-garde. I soon realized that modern art could combine wonderfully with tribal art.
JP : When did you buy your first piece and what was it? SH : That was in the mid-eighties. I think it was a Dan mask. Unfortunately it proved to be
just as fake as other objects we bought in the early days. But I distinctly remember the first Lobi sculpture we acquired. That was in 1991 in Isle sur la Sorge, in southern France, from a dealer called George Liotard. This object is still in our collection.
JP: When you bought this Lobi piece, had you any previous references or information
about this tribe? SH: No, we didn’t know the Lobi yet. After the purchase we did some research, of course, and acquired some literature about the Lobi. At the time, there were very few books on the subject. The Lobi were “discovered” at a later stage.
JP: Did you then decide to start a Lobi collection? SH: When we bought this first Lobi sculpture we did not know what would come of it. In subsequent years, the amount of Lobi pieces in our collection increased steadily and they now account for about 95% of the total collection.
JP: How much time elapsed between the acquisition of that first Lobi and the purchase of
the second one? SH: Only a few minutes … we bought four sculptures on that day. Monsieur Liotard had brought about 30 objects back from the the Ivory Coast and we had a choice. In the following years we visited him every summer in Marseille and we always found some object that we liked. We still go and see him in summer sometimes. A second dealer who was - and still is- important to us is Alain Dufour. We visit him every July or August in Ramatuelle..
JP: When exactly did you decide to start a Lobi collection? SH: Once we had bought the first dozen of Lobi sculptures and made some serious re-
search we realized that Lobi art was a little universe in itself. There were so many distinct styles and substyles and such a wide variety of forms and anatomical differences. And you find objects of many different materials such as wood, terracotta, bronze, iron, ivory, bone, clay, etc.. So it became more and more clear to us that Lobi art would be the focus of our future collecting activities. That was in the mid-nineties. We were in close contact with a few other collectors who had numerous Lobi sculptures in their collections and who had visited Lobi country several times -people like Hans Bittlingmaier, Jochen et Gaby Krüger and Thomas Waigel . They have been particularly important to us and we exchanged many letters, mails and photos with them at the time.
JP: How many styles are there in Lobi art and which are the most important ones SH:Nobody’s really made out how many styles there are but Petra and I know more than
250. And I am sure that other styles have existed but none of these objects have survived the difficult climatic conditions in this part of Africa. As for the more relevant styles, we have, for example, the three distinct styles of the “Lobi à lunettes”. Generally, the old styles show more archaic strength. You find the same phenomenon in European religious art: if we compare with later periods, there is definitely more intensity and sincerity in pictures of saints dating back to the romanic and gothic periods .
JP:We know that in Dogon art we can find examples of very old sculptures dating back to
the 12thand 13th century. What about Lobi art – which period are the oldest examples that we know? SH: You will not find Lobi objects dating back to that time. The climatic conditions in Dogon caves, where the oldest objects have been found, are totally different. Inside these caves the air is warm and dry -this is ideal for conservation of this type of objects. I remember Francine Maurer once made a carbon 14 test on a 70cm. Lobi sculpture ; it revealed that the sculpture dated back to the 17th or 18th century. But that is exceptional for Lobi art. Nearly all wooden Lobi objects have been carved in the last 150 years.
JP:Have you done carbon tests on any of your Lobis? SH: No, we haven’t tested any objects from our collection yet but I would like to do that some time.
JP:I have just received your new book “Schnitzer der Lobi “ and I found it particularly inter-
esting! Are all the denominations you use to classify the different master sculptors shared by the other Lobi specialists? SH: It’s an old problem to give names to artists whose real names are unknown. I have concluded, together with my family, that it is more sensible to identify each carver by giving them a name after an anatomical detail which is characteristic of their work. It hasn’t been easy to find an appropriate name sometimes : we have often consulted and discussed these problems with close friends .
JP:I understand this book is not the first one you have written about the Lobis? SH: That’s right. Together with some friends ,in 2006, we wrote a book similar in line with
this one. The title was “Anonyme Schnitzer der Lobi”. And in 2011 we made the catalogue for the “Skulpturenmuseum Glaskasten” exhibition in Marl. The title of the exhibition and of the catalogue was “Skulpturen der Lobi”. It was a great success and the catalogue sold particularly well. The museum in Marl is normally specialized in modern sculpture and it was a fantastic experience to show our selection of fine works of Lobi art in this setting.
JP:Is there going to be an exhibit of the works presented in this book? SH:I would very much like to present these wonderful sculptures in an exhibition. Unfor-
tunately I have not yet found a museum or institution who would like to show this selection of outstanding examples of Lobi art. This interview might help to get in touch with someone eventually willing to organize such an exhibition together with us…
JP: Are there other important collections of Lobi art in the world? SH: There is a very fine Lobi collection in Belgium. There is one other in Switzerland and
another in Holland. In France there are about four or five and in Germany there are about ten important Lobi collections. Added to that, we know there is a collection in America which counts about 40 Lobi objects . What is amazing is that when you visit museums worldwide you find only a few Lobi objects as compared to items from other African tribes.
JP: Have you had a chance to see these other collections? SH:Yes, we have good contacts with other collectors and have travelled a lot. Unfortunately, we have no close contact with collectors in Italy and Spain.
JP:It is a fact that Lobi art was not taken seriously for a long time. And even when Ker-
chache held his interesting exhibition in Paris in 1974 , the reputation of Lobi art did not change at once. The catalogue of the exhibition showed some outstanding t Lobi sculptures. How can you explain the fact that there was not much interest for the Lobis? SH: It’s got to do with the way Lobi society is organized and also with the history of colonization. The Lobi have no kings or noblemen or political leaders. Therefore, there were no palaces, capital cities or impressive graveyards to be seen when the first Europeans arrived in Lobi country. Most French soldiers, doctors and administrators came to southwest Burkina more than a century ago. Lobi sculptures were kept in little shrines in the sukalas (large, many- roomed houses made of clay). Foreigners had no access to these sacred places. And ,if ever they entered these chambers ,what they saw was not at all spectacular but, on the contrary, looked unattractive and dirty to European eyes. So it was not very interesting for these Europeans to bring such objects back to their home countries. After the Kerchache exhibition there was the big Lobi exhibit in Zurich in 1981 and only then was Lobi art acknowledged by dealers and collectors. In the following years many excellent pieces were brought to Europe by people like Carlo Monti, Peter Loebarth and others. Another reason is that Lobi sculpture is rougher and wilder than the art objects produced by other African tribes. A Dan mask and a polished Baule piece fitted better into western living rooms than the often “disproportioned” and “dirty”-looking batebas. Nowadays collectors appreciate the archaic strength and high sculptural quality of Lobi pieces. I am convinced that Lobi art will draw increasing attention in coming years.
JP: Finally, if your house caught fire, which object would you save first? SH:Oh, Joaquín, what a cruel question! A fire in my house would be an absolute nightmare!
There are many objects that we like very much. So, Petra has two arms and so do I. Which means we could take at least four objects out of the burning house …… and I would decide on the spur of the moment since I don’t have the same preferences every day.
JOAQUIN PECCI Tribal Art