The Challenge of Diversity in Modern Society

THE CHALLENGE OF DIVERSITY IN MODERN SOCIETY Sheikh Dr Mustafa Ceric

MUIS LECTURE SERIES The Muis Distinguished Visitors Programme (DVP) is an annual series organised by the Islamic Religious Council of Singapore (Muis). It features eminent statesmen, intellectual leaders and thinkers of international standing who will deliver the Muis Lecture on topics relating to Islam and its relationship with the modern world. The DVP will also focus on the new trends in Muslim thoughts and ideas in dealing with change and modernity in the context of changing global challenges of the 21st century.

MUIS LECTURE 2011

The Challenge of Diversity in Modern Society Sheikh Dr Mustafa Ceric

Grand Mufti of Bosnia-Herzegovina 1 October, 2011

Muis Lecture 2011 Distinguished Visitors Programme

Other Titles in Muis Lecture Series: 1. Islam and Its Place in the Modern World

by HE Dr. Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi 2. The Role of Religion in the New Millennium

by Dr. Karen Armstrong 3. Religious Diversity and Social Unity

by The Most Revd Dr. Rowan Williams 4. Islam’s Enduring Values for Humanity

by Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Bader Eddin Hassoun 5. Forging a Common Humanity

by Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf

This publication is a transcription of the Muis Lecture delivered to an audience of 600 on Saturday, 1 October 2011 at Grand Hyatt, Singapore.

Copyright Š 2011 Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura Designed & Printed by The Print Lodge Pte Ltd All rights reserved. No part of this document may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying and recording, or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing from the publisher.

ISBN xxx-xxx-xx-xxxx-x

BIOGRAPHY Sheikh Dr Mustafa Ceric

S

heikh Dr Mustafa Ceric, the Grand Mu�i of Bosnia-Herzegovina was born in Visoko, Bosnia-Herzegovina (then Yugoslavia) in 1952.

He received his early educa�on in a tradi�onal madrasah in Sarajevo and con�nued with his first degree from Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. He is one of the most widely respected scholars of Islam residing in Europe.

In 1981, he was appointed as Imam of the Islamic Cultural Center of Greater Chicago in Northbrook, Illinois, USA. He lived in the United States for several years, while doing his further studies. He graduated with a PhD in Islamic Studies from the University of Chicago, with a disserta�on published as The Roots of Synthe�c Theology in Islam. As a widely respected scholar, he sits as a member of several important local and interna�onal organisa�ons such as the Council of 100 Leaders of the World Economic Forum, Interna�onal Commission for Peace Research, Execu�ve Council of World Forum of Ulama, and the World Council of Religions and Peace. For his efforts in furthering peace and interfaith coopera�on, he was awarded the UNESCO Felix Houphouet-Boigny Peace Prize in 2003. He was also a recipient of the Interna�onal Council of Chris�ans and Jews Annual Sternberg Award for his “excep�onal contribu�on to interfaith understanding.” He is author to numerous works in Bosnian, including Islam and the West (2000) and Islam in Bosnia (1994).

Sheikh Dr Mustafa Ceric will be delivering the Muis Lecture as part of Muis’ Dis�nguished Visitors Programme (DVP). The DVP aims to provide key government and public sector leaders as well as community and religious leaders an opportunity to meet and engage with eminent Muslims statesmen, leaders and thinkers of interna�onal standing on the latest developments in contemporary issues on Islam and Muslims.

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THE CHALLENGE OF DIVERSITY IN MODERN SOCIETY

Muis Lecture 2011 Distinguished Visitors Programme

Sheikh Dr Mustafa Ceric

Grand Mufti of Bosnia-Herzegovina 1 October, 2011

In the name of God, the Most Merciful, the Most Compassionate

I am honored by the Minister Dr Yaacob Ibrahim’s invitation to deliver lecture at the Distinguished Visitors Programme here in Singapore, a friendly state and a unique society of economical growth, political stability, cultural diversity and religious plurality.

It is my honor to be on the list with Honorable Sheikh Al-Azhar of Egypt of your trust and selection to speak before this respective Asian audience. As you know I am coming from a unique European county of Bosnia-Herzegovina with a thousand year of history of national, cultural and religious diversity. Unfortunately, some irresponsible people recently have wanted to destroy this unique Bosnian legacy of cultural diversity by genocidal acts against indigenous Bosnian people. Thanks to God their plan did not succeed, but it did cause many physical and mental injures that need our healing. It is appropriate for me here to extend a great appreciation and gratitude on behalf of my Bosnian people to all good people of Singapore who have supported us in our struggle for survival and freedom in Europe of many faiths.

Thus, your proposal for the subject of my lecture: The Challenge of Diversity in Modern Society is both appropriate and timely. It is appropriate because the principle of cultural diversity is my everyday life and destiny in Europe and it is timely because there is no greater challenge for our global survival today than the challenge of our understanding and appreciating not only of a cultural diversity, but also of a biodiversity as condicio sine qua non for a continuous life on earth. In fact, the principle of biodiversity should not be seen only as analogous to the principle of cultural diversity, but also as part and parcel of diversity as the principle of a balance in nature and in society.

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Yes, we need to explain that the idea of “diversity” does not mean “difference” in terms of two exclusive entities that are not joinable in any form or shape. The difference between good and evil, right and wrong, truth and false ought to be understood as separate meanings that cannot be mixed whatsoever. On the other hand, the diversity is a balance of two distingtive entities which make up a balanced whole in nature and society.

In the nature it is the balance of hot and cold, wet and dry, moisture and sunlight that make the air breathable, the water drinkable and the food eatable for us. Not only that, but also the fact that we have more air than water and more water than food in the nature because we need more air than water and more water than food for our survival, tells us that somebody do take care about us down here.

Indeed, here is the Merciful, al-Rahìm, and the Beneficial, al-Rahmàn, the Creator, al-Khàliq, who has informed us in the Holy Qur’an that: The earth is extended and its mountains are stable and everything that is planted on the earth is properly balanced [al-Qur’an, 15:19].

The same principle of balanced diversity is set up for human societies in terms of multiple possibilities of human languages, races, nations, cultures, religions, etc. It is this principle of the diversity of human expressions that makes our life on earth wonderful; it is this cultural and social diversity that should drive us toward a better understanding of each other for the sake of enriching each other of knowledge that we need for survival. Indeed, unlike a plant and an animal, “man – as Ayn Rand rightly said - has no automatic code of survival. He has no automatic set of action, no automatic set of values. His senses do not tell him automatically what is good for him or evil, what will benefit his life or endanger it, what goals he should pursue and what means will achieve them, what values his life depends on, what course of action it requires. His own consciousness has to discover the answers to all these questions – but his consciousness will not function automatically. Man, the highest

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living species on this earth – the being whose consciousness has a limitless capacity for gaining knowledge – man is the only living entity born without guarantee of remaining conscious at all. Man’s particular distinction from all other living species is the fact that his consciousness is volitional”.1 This is why the first divine imperative for man has been: Read in the name of thy Sustainer, who has created man out of a germ-cell, who has taught [man] the use of the pen. Read - for thy Sustainer is the Most Bountiful One. He taught man what he did not know! [Al-Qur’an, 96: 1-5].

He, the Almighty and Intellgent Creator, taught men to behold that: God has created all human beings out of a male and a female, and have made them into nations and tribes, so that they might come to know one another. Verily, the noblest of them in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of God (of himself and the world). Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware. [al-Qur’an, 49:13)].

In addition to that, the Holy Qur’an reminds us once again of the importance of us being conscious of the principle of cultural and social diversity by stressing the fact that: Among God’s signs are … the diversity of your languages and races. Indeed, in this there are messages for all those who are knowledgeable! [al-Qur’an, 30:22].

Hence, the diversity of cultural and social life is a sign, is a message for those who want to hear it, for those who want to know that there are between 3,000 and 8,000 existing languages in the world, that approximately there are 50,000 cultures in the world, and that there are 19 major world religions which are subdivided into a total of 270 large religious groups, and many smaller ones. These figures are in opposition to the modern myth which says that “with the advance of science one set of values will be accepted everywhere”2. Is it not the other way around as John Gray would ask us?: “Can we not accept that human beings have “The difference between good divergent and conflicting values, and learn to live with and evil, right and wrong, truth this fact? It is a strange notion and false ought to be understood that humanity is destined for as separate meanings that cannot a single way of living, when be mixed whatsoever.” history is so rich in conflict and contrivance”.3

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But the principle of diversity of cultural and social life is not necessarily “conflict” and “contrivance”. It can be, as it were, a reason for a creative work as a result of an interaction of distinctive cultures and religions. For instance, Europe cannot escape the fact of the historical contribution of both Judaism and Islam to the shaping of its religious principles both in terms of its Christian and Humanistic traditions. It is a historical fact that if it had not been for the Muslim Ibni Sina (Avicenna)4, the rationality of the Christian Theology of Thomas Aquinas5 would hardly have been possible; and if it had not been for both the Muslim Ibn Rush (Averroës)6 and the Jewish Maimonides7 in Andalus (Spain), it would not have been possible to think of European Humanism and Renaissance as early as the fourteenth century.

We can go on wondering about the principle of cultural and social diversity, but the biodiversity is even more puzzling and more challenging for us to understand our situation in the world. It is enough to mention here the fact that all ants weigh the same as all humans, that there are three hundred species of bacteria in our mouth, that five thousand species of plant were introduced to the United States from elsewhere, that parts of Europe have more species now than before humans arrived, and that biodiversity, which is now in danger, can be saved at one forth the cost of destructive subsidies. Scientists have now distinguished 1.75 million species. Most people know of fewer than 0.01 percent of them8.

Hence, it is a self-evident truth that the existence and the maintenance of biodiversity depend on a human understanding of the value of life; it is a human will and a human choice to continue to exist or to cease to exist as John Galt says in Ayn Rand’s novel Atlas Shrugged (1957): “Man has been called a rational being, but rational is matter of choice - and the alternative his nature offers him is: rational being or suicidal animal. Man has to be man - by choice; he has to hold his life as a value - by choice; he has to learn to sustain it - by choice; he has to discover the values it requires and practice his virtues - by choice. A code of values accepted by choice is a code “The difference between good of morality”. and evil, right and wrong, truth

and false ought to be understood as separate meanings that cannot be mixed whatsoever.”

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Indeed, the real issue here is a kind of morality of the modern society. The morality that is of God’s spirit, of

the original “faith”, of the human consciousness, that we Muslims call al-taqwà, as well as of the man’s rational ability to recognize true or false, right or wrong, and good or evil; or, the morality that is based on pure human feeling, taste, urge, wish or whim. So, the idea of a modern society is neither good nor bad in itself, but it can be good or bad according to the moral values which are based on the basic principle of cultural and social diversity from which other principles are derived such as: the principle of freedom versus slavery, the principle of right versus might and the principle of science versus mythology. Thus, the notion of a modern society is not a final cultural and social development. It is just a model of something that accurately resembles something else. And this something that a model of the modern society might accurately resemble is the principle of diversity with all its basics of freedom, right and science, the principle that is fundamental truth, law or motive force for advancing the value of human life and dignity.

How close is the modern society to the principle of diversity as a motive force for advancing the value of human life and dignity? I am sure that evry one of you has his/her own answer to this question, but I will remind you that ours is the civilization of big paradoxes such as: the higher degrees in education, the less degree of ethics; the more knowledge, the less wisdom; the more experts, the less solutions; the more wealth, the less moral values; the more houses, the less families; the faster communication, the less decent human relation; the more books about pollution, the less care about natural environment; the more conferences about peace, the more wars around the world; the more call for reason, the less rational behavior; the more manumental churches, the less attendees in the church; the more attendees in the mosques, the less peace and security in some Muslim cities; the more tears on the Wall of Tears, the less peace and security in the holy lands - are clear indications that we must change our way of life, we have to discover a new morality, a new drive for a new start that will lead us to the basics of humanity, to a human fundamentalism or a fundamental humanism.

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What we need today is a spiritual revolution that is different from the scientific, intellectual, political or industrial revolutions. It is the revolution of spirit that should embrace all of the positive results of the previous revolutions in the sense of the return to the light of God (nùr) - a source of His light with which He enlightens human hearts and minds, which is light upon light, which expels darkness one over the other, which chases away darkness from human mind, which removes hatred from human heart, and which cleanses the human soul from Satan’s evil.

It is interesting to hear this saying of the Prophet Muhammad, a.s.: “Verily, God created the creatures in darkness, and then He poured them some of His light”.

It is this light, i.e. God’s light, that has enlightened the human spirit and mind to lead humanity from slavery to freedom; from might to right; from mythology to science; from hatred to love; from terror to security; from fear to hope; from war

“The difference between good and evil, right and wrong, truth and false ought to be understood as separate meanings that cannot be mixed whatsoever.”

to peace; from corruption to ethics; from poverty to wellbeing; from falsehood to truth; from selfishness to compassion; from arrogance to humility; from harshness to gentleness; from greed to modesty; from discrimination to equality; from pornography to chastity; from pedophilia to morality; from drug-addiction to selfesteem; from godlessness to Godliness; from suicide to the purpose of life, and from jahiliyya (ignorance) to spiritual enlightenment.

On paper we have it all - freedom, right and science, but deep in our soul we sense that we are losing these values as some people would like to take us back to the dark age of slavery, might and mythology or jahiliyyah.

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Of course, science cannot replace the need of the soul to hear beyond what the ear can hear and to see beyond what the eye can see, through enlightened intellect.

But also, human intellect which produces knowledge cannot renounce scientific achievements that have made man’s life on earth easier.

The call for a return to faith must not mean a return to the world of mythology in which the light of intellect and the power of reason are dimmed. A spiritual revolution does not imply erasing human sagacity and rationality. The spiritual revolution demands a return to wisdom, tolerance and dialogue, notions that have become lost in the flood of arrogance, egoism, extremism, holocaust, genocide, terrorism and violence in the streets and in homes. We have reached a point when the very mention of the word “wisdom” usually makes one think of elderly people who are wise because they have grown old and can no longer be ruthless.

Yes, ruthlessness has become what “wisdom” used to be for those who think that “wisdom” of life is to be found in narcotics; the “wisdom” of modern age in alcohol; the “wisdom” of freedom of choice in the lack of shame; the “wisdom” of wit in theft, and the “wisdom” of courage in violence. Of course, when one subjects his worldview to acquiring knowledge and information without morality and ethics; without wisdom and meaning; without decency and honor, without tolerance and the culture of dialogue, then we face violence, intolerance and discrimination in society.

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The pollution of the human soul with lies and immorality is no less harmful than the pollution of nature with poisonous gases and garbage. Moreover, it is not possible to cleanse nature as long as human soul remains polluted with wickedness and irresponsibility towards life on earth.

Man must learn tolerance and a culture of dialogue because there is no other way that can contribute to his success in this world and his salvation in the Hereafter.

It is because of the lack of human compassion for all forms of life on earth and because of the absence of true tolerance and a culture of dialogue among people and nations that the 20th century will be remembered as the century of dark ideas of racism, fascism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia - the ideas that have induced people to commit the most heinous crimes in history of mankind.

Death camps, Gulags and the atomic bombs that fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed millions of people, more than in any other century. However, the 20th century is not only notorious for the numbers of those killed, but also because of the conviction that out of those killings a new, better world would be born. In the 20th century industries of killing organized by states against its own citizens, were launched with the conviction that those who survived would live in a better world than was ever existed. In the 20th century man tried to replace the Divine Spirit with a satanic evil spirit, daring to utter the words: “God is dead”, becoming conceited in thinking that he can live as if there were no God. But, today those of us who have survived the “dark moments” of the 20th century can bear witness that God is al-Hayy, the Ever-Living! al-Hamdulillah!

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(Footnotes) 1

Ayn Rand, The Virtue of SelďŹ shness, Signet, 1964, pp. 20-21.

2

John Gray, Al Qaeda and what it means to be Modern, p. 113.

3

Ibid, 114.

Ibn Sina, Abu Ali al-Husain ibn Abd Allah (980-1037). Generally he is considered to be the greatest Islamic philosopher. He was born near Bukhara.

4

Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). He is considered to be the founder of Christian rational theology. He was born near Aquino, Italy.

5

Ibn Rush, Abul-Walid Muhammad ibn Ahmad (1126-1198) was major Arabic-writing philosopher. He was born in Cordova, Spain. In Europe his philosophy is known as averroism.

6

Maimonides, Muses (1135-1204). Jewish jurist, philosopher and physician. He is born in Cordova, Spain. He had enjoyed a great respect of the Muslim rulers and had contributed a great deal to Islamic intellectualism.

7

8 See, Cataloguing Life on Earth – Life Counts, eds. Michael Gleich, Dirk Maxeiner, Michael Miersch, Fabian Nicolay, 1993, p. 14.

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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Chairperson: Sheikh Mustafa Ceric has given us a lot of food for thought. He has given many ideas, suggestions and views for us to reflect on. I won’t attempt to summarise his lecture. I think it would be good if we could invite those who may have comments to add on or even query to the Sheikh. Can we invite please the first speaker or the first commentator?

Audience: Thank you. We’re very honoured and privileged to have you here. You shared with us a lot of what had happened in this century with all the atrocities such as in Bosnia and many other places in the world. I’d like to ask you this question: Have we really learned a lesson? Has the world really learnt a lesson? Is intercivilisational dialogue, which we see now everywhere, really achieving what we want to bring about in terms of better tolerance, understanding and acceptance?

How much of the problem and challenge we have now is because of the others, or is it really because of us, ourselves, the Muslims?

Sheikh: Well, it’s easier to always blame others for failures and it is difficult to accept self-criticism or to accept the re-examination of our own contribution to what is happening there. But there is one fact that we Muslims are faced with and the rest of the world does not understand. I think that there is a big misunderstanding between what we want to say to the world and what the world is expecting from us as Muslims, and we have a big crisis as Muslims in terms of explaining ourselves.

Either we don’t know how to explain or the others don’t have goodwill to listen to us, and what we have to say. I would try to describe the current situation of the Muslim history in this way: The coming of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, at the beginning of 7th century CE and bringing this idea of Islam into the

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world affairs was the most radical reformation in religious thought in the history of mankind. I will mention three of these.

First, Prophet Muhammad cancelled the institution of priesthood. He said, la rahbani fil Islam [58:31] – “There is no human mediation to reach God.” Humans are free and your personal faith matters. Second, he cancelled the idea of racism.

He announced in Mount Arafat that “an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab.” Furthermore, he mentioned, “a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.” Thus, everyone is equal. arabic [58:54] – “You are all children of Adam.” So, there is no discrimination based on race and colour, or anything of such. And third, the most important thing – that I think Muslims did not display much in a good manner – is the principle of “there no compulsion in religion” or la ikraha fiddin (Q.2:256). This is the basic of human rights. You don’t use force to persuade others in belief. These are the most radical reformations in religion.

Now, Prophet Muhammad was born in an environment with Bedouin mentality, although Mecca is an urban city. He didn’t have an army; nor plans and strategies, like we have today, to conquer the world. But he has only a message, or a word.

This word that he brought from Arab Peninsula was spread in a vast area, in such a speed, that it is incomparable with any other idea spreading in such a way to any civilisation. The Persian and Byzantine civilisations were accepting this idea. Now, from the interaction with these two civilisations, emerged what we call Islamic civilisation in Baghdad and Muslims were at the centre of scientific research and so on. I will not dwell into this.

What I want to highlight is the 19th century. This high civilisation of Muslims suddenly went into a decline and the Muslims were relegated to the margins of history. From the 18th century, three main European powers – the British, the Italian and the French – controlled 85 percent of the globe. Now, most of that globe that came under the control of these three great powers was previously in the hands of the Muslims. So, Muslims had two choices: either to make hijrah [migration], or to fight against this colonisation.

Now, this drama in Muslim history is now almost two centuries. In these two centuries of Muslim history, you had two movements: one is the idea of a re-Islamisation of Muslims, and the other was secularisation of the Muslim mind. The secularisation of the Muslim mind was not a Muslim product; it was imported into Muslim lands from the West because the idea of secularisation is a European or Western idea.

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It is their product that you can buy or take, but it is not yours. So, many Muslim students went to the West to learn how to adapt secularisation to Muslim lands, through the so-called ‘modernisation’ process. Turkey succeeded but sacrificed a lot. So did Tunisia, Indonesia and many other countries. But the Muslims did not see much benefit from this; Muslims did not achieve social justice, except in Turkey.

So, we took Turkey as a model. I wish that all Muslims went through the process of secularisation like the Turks but without such a great sacrifice.

Now, the movement of re-Islamisation that was initiated basically by the great scholar, Maududi in Pakistan was theoretical, and it was educational. But then, we had the military wing of that, which is basically led by Syed Qutb in Egypt, who thought that he should implement the re-Islamisation not by education but by military force, and organising Muslims to fight physically. I don’t need to tell you now what happened with this.

But this state of affairs of Muslims trying to get back to the mainstream of history is on the minds of all intellectuals. If the modernisation of Muslim societies in the mould of secularisation was successful – that is, it brought Muslims social justice, economical prosperity, and sound education, I think that Muslims would accept this idea of building the society. Fortunately, these modernists fail, in my opinion, and therefore we then have the re-Islamisation that was strengthened by many counter groups until we get to the Iranian revolution, which was led by the ulama or the mullahs. They say, “You secularists and modernists, you don’t know and 18

don’t understand the feeling of the Muslims. You don’t express their aspirations. We are the ones who will now lead them.” And they led them, and succeeded. And then we have what we now observed: secularism was withdrawing, and more and more people move further away from the idea of modernism and secularism of the West. And they say, “You see now how we have to come back to Islam.” So, what we have now is the competition of these two movements. I think the idea of the re-Islamisation of the Muslims was more successful. It won, and today, the state of mind of the Muslims is to come back to Islam.

What worries me now – and this is the dilemma that I want to share with you – is what kind of Islam, and what kind of direction in the name of Islam, Muslims will go through. This is the question not only for us Muslims, but it is primarily our concern on how the Muslims will handle it. I see that even the ulama – with all due respect to all my colleagues; and I am one of them – we are not prepared for the task we are asked to do. We are not trained and we don’t understand global politics and systems.

We don’t understand what is happening in the world. And, on the other hand, we have very poor politicians who are frightened by these circles [i.e. the religious elites], and telling them, “We are protecting you, and if you just say anything of the sort on human rights, freedom, democracy - these imported Western concepts – you are in danger. So you should be as totalitarian as we are, and don’t allow Muslims to be free. If you allow them to be free, they will get us out from power.” So, there are no democracy, no free elections, and no debates; this is an unwritten inheritance of Muslims. And because of this inability of the Muslims to engage, what choice is there for them? They go to the streets in Paris for Jumaat prayers, and then the French government said that they couldn’t pray on the streets anymore. Then, they go to Switzerland and they asked for a minaret, and the Swiss government said no.

The Muslims complained. We kept complaining, yet no one listens. What I want to conclude is this: Please come back again to the first imperative of God – “Iqra’ [Read]!” (Q.96:1). We have to be educated. Our salvation and success in this world, is in education. Even if we lose something in our identity through education, it is better than to be ignorant and to be a slave to others. So please, educate yourself.

When you are educated, you don’t need to complain. And when you don’t need to complain, you will spend your energy in creative work and not blame others for your mistakes. You know, if Martin Luther King came in the 1960s and said, “I have a complaint!” will anyone listen to him? I imagine that no one would listen to him.

Instead, what does he say? He said, “I have a dream!” So I want you to say each day, together with me, “I have a dream!” Thank you very much.

Chairperson: Thank you! I think we do have a dream in Singapore, Sheikh. Our dream for the Muslim community is to be a community of excellence. This is a

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vision started by many previous politicians, ministers and together with MUIS; because we believe that it is important to be excellent in everything that we do.

Can I invite the second comment or question, please?

Audience: I’m an educator, so what I’ll share with you is my insights in terms of working with youth and young children in Singapore. And what resonated with me is what you had shared about the formation of your own identity while growing up in multicultural Eastern Europe. And in Singapore, as you know, there is a wonderful diversity and the youths often tell me and their teachers that as they grow up, they know they have to be modern and traditional; they have to be religious as well as good in their secular studies; they have to speak Malay and English, sometimes Singlish, and sometimes a bit of Arabic. So one of the responses that Singaporean youths tell me is that one of the ways they cope with diversity is that they learn

to ‘toggle’. And they toggle well. So if need be, they will toggle to the Islamic world, then to the secular world, and the modern world, and so forth. I suppose this is their way of responding to the challenge of diversity in modern Singapore.

So perhaps you can share your insights: Is this toggling a healthy response to the challenge of diversity? Also, as an educator, I suppose my worry is that, as they toggle, they are losing something. Is there any particular value that I as an educator can stress in every individual youth in Singapore that would help them to at least anchor a balance, even as they toggle left and right in responding to the challenge of diversity? Thank you.

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Sheikh: Thank you for your elaborate question. In your question, you almost taught me something that I didn’t know. Thank you very much. It shows the level of your awareness and consciousness. As you know, it is said that man as a human being has the capacity not to be conscious at all. Khalaqna kum wa minkum kafir, wa minkum mukmin – “…“ [1:14:18]. We have this in the Qur’an where God tells us that you might be believer or a disbeliever, and this is your choice. I recommend you that you believe, of course, but the choice is yours.

This generation and this civilisation want to be special in everything. You know, we always say that those who came before us didn’t know anything much. But I would like to invite you to Sarajevo in Bosnia Herzegovina, to see the pyramids that are being discovered, and the one who discovered them said that even 5,000 years ago, the people who built these pyramids knew better than we know what is there in the heavens and in the sky. We, from the so-called generation of enlightenment, humanism and the renaissance, proclaim that everything before us is bad, and history starts with us. You know what I like about the Qur’an and about the Prophet Muhammad? When Prophet Muhammad came, he didn’t say that all those who were before me were wrong and I am the only right one. On the contrary, he said, anna musaddiqul lima bayna minal Taurat [1:15:45] – “I am confirming of the truth that was before me.” So, history does not start with me. It was before me too.

So what I’m trying to say is that people have multiple identities. And we have multiple identities too. We have to live with this. I am a Muslim, but at the same time, ethnically Bosnian; I am also a European, and I am an Azhari; and I am a husband to my wife. Sometimes, people know better who I am when I say I am husband of my wife, Azra! In the past, for example, the wives were identified by their husbands, not by their names. So, we have all these kinds of identities; it depends which one you want to emphasise and prioritise. What are the priorities of these identities? Some would say that the most important identity to them is Islam, or to be a Muslim. Others would say nationality, civilisation, or whatever else. But what I would like to suggest to young people is this: Yes, you can have the choice and freedom to put your priorities, but remember all the time that all these identities are a part of your whole self. So, you cannot give up on any of them. It depends on how much you are of that and how much of this, but you are all together a personality that have to live with all these identities.

So this is what we often say to our Christian friends in Europe. When we have a dialogue, we tell them, “You complain against us Muslims because you say we are too religious.” And they responded, “Give me a break! You are praying five times a day and you only talk about religion… Can you talk about something else?” Then, 21

we said to the Christians, “But we complain about you because you don’t talk about religion at all. You don’t know anything about it.” So, we have a problem. Probably, we should reduce a little bit and slow down; and probably they should also learn and hear what we have to say. So, the ignorance of each other is very dangerous.

Once, we used to say to those who have a fever of faith: “We will measure how much degree they have…” Sometimes, the temperature is too high, so you have to take aspirin. But when you take too much aspirin in dosage, it can damage you too.

So, everything that God makes is in due proportion.

You know, this life is really beautiful, and we should enjoy it. This is a blessing of God. And faith is a gift of God. So please, with all your effort, you have to believe there is there rahmah [God’s compassion] that gives you life and relaxation. Don’t be hard on other people when you are going to mosque or if you are going to pray.

Please give them chance; probably they are not at that moment ready to go. So make it easier for them, don’t make it harder for them, if your priority is religion. But also, there are those who are not very friendly with religion and they want to impose their views on others, saying, “Why should you go to mosque? Religion is useless! Why don’t you enjoy your life?” Sure, I will dispute with him, but the problem is when one wants to impose one’s idea on others by force. This is the problem, whether it is religious or non-religious. This is why I am happy and proud to be a Muslim, because I have it in the Qur’an, which states: “There is no compulsion in religion...”

(Q. 2:256). But there is also no compulsion in non-religion – you cannot impose people not to believe, as we had in previous times, such as the state imposing on belief.

And then, there is one saying of Imam Ali, which I like very much, and he said: Al muluku yabka ma al-kufri, wa la yadka ma al-zulmi [1:21:30] – “The government or political power may be in the hands of the unbelievers, but it cannot remain in injustice.” So the principle of peace and security in society is not what the people believe and how they believe, but whether you are just to them, whether they have justice, and whether they have equal chance to succeed in their lives. If they have that, then this is what I would call, a real ‘Islamic society’, or ‘Islamic state’, if you like. But I don’t think there is such a thing as an Islamic state; there are only Muslims who live in a society and creating a just or unjust, or equal or unequal, society where they live. So, to answer to your question: Yes, this problem of multiple identities is a blessing on the one hand, but on the other hand may be confusing.

But I believe that you as a good educator will help our youths to understand and to cope with that and may God help you with that. Thank you.

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Chairperson: Thank you very much! Can I ask the gentleman at the back row for his comment or question, please?

Audience: I’d done many travels to Sarajevo and Bosnia as a whole. What I found, especially with people who stayed back after the war – that is, people who fought for Bosnia from other countries, or the jihadists – they have now become more

conservative, and probably follow the kind of Islam that we now call the “Salafis” or the “Wahhabis”. How, in your role as a Mufti, have you tried to integrate them into the mainstream Islam?

Sheikh: There are many individuals who came to Bosnia from 1992 to 1995 from all over the world. Among them are Arabs, many of whom married with Bosnian women and they form families. After the peace agreement in Dayton, there is one clause that says that all foreigners who were in Bosnia Herzegovina during the war and were engaged in war should leave the territory of Bosnia. That was because it was not only the Arabs who came to help Bosnian Muslims, but there were Russians, Greeks and Germans who helped the Serbs and Croats, and so on. When you have the peace agreement, and the war is over, the situation is different. The rules of the game are different. Now, there are many Arabs who came as humanitarian activists.

The number of orphans is high, among many other things. Singapore was also one of the countries that did help in many ways through humanitarian efforts at that time, even though Bosnia was not a humanitarian case; it was the aggression against a sovereign and independent state that was recognised by the UN. But we will not 23

go into this detail. If it were not for this help from the Muslims around the world, I would not probably be with you today in Singapore. So thanks to God and to all the Muslim countries that helped Bosnia Herzegovina; that is clear in record.

You read The Clinton Tapes by Taylor Branch, on conversations between former US President Bill Clinton and French President, Francois Mitterrand, who revealed that the French and British authorities did not want to see a Bosnian Muslim state to survive amidst a Christian Europe. They are responsible for what happened and for the genocide in Bosnia, not to say about other violations elsewhere. But now back to your question. I know what you mean. As happening everywhere in Muslim societies, we are faced with this phenomenon of a new interpretation of Islam that is unknown to us, or at least strange to us. We have some people who are ‘revisionists’, if you like, who are trying to reexamine or revise the whole idea of Islam. They proclaim that what we are teaching and preaching are wrong. So they tell us we have to change everything. Of course, they don’t say that we have to change the Qur’an, but somehow we have to change the way we pray, the way we look at things, and so on.

And these people are known as the people of takfir – those who are excommunicating others who are not of their particular view of Islam. We were faced with this in Bosnia as well, I don’t know in Singapore how you are dealing with this. In Europe, let’s say two or three years ago, it was very, very hard for us to cope with this challenge. And there were some people who said to me – and they were writing on Facebook – that not only I am no longer a Muslim, but my blood is halal [permissible to be shed] for those who think I am not a good Muslim. But we did succeed to integrate them slowly. We did not argue with them in the same manner by saying that they are not true Muslims. We were trying to put the arguments based on our tradition – on the Qur’an and Sunnah [ways of the Prophet]. We still have this debate and I think this debate will continue. And I think it is not a question of moderate versus nonmoderate. I don’t like such classification. It is the question of we – who represent Islam officially and are in charge of Islamic affairs – who must be active and must be representative of the aspirations of Muslims. And this is why I am very glad to be shown and to be able to get inside the Islamic community in Singapore with the President of MUIS, and the Mufti, together with the Minister. I was brought on a visit to Islamic schools. And I must tell you, I am impressed by what I saw here. So please continue with your efforts.

And let me tell you, I would invite you to come and see Bosnia too. Bosnia Herzegovina is working well, I would say. We have a similar tradition of inviting Muslim scholars from outside to spend a week with us and we show them our 24

madrasah. There was one visitor to Bosnia who was a dissident from one Muslim country during the Arab revolution and he lives in London. He was Islamist, in a real sense, and he believed that the state and the devil are the same. So he visited us, and observed the madrasah, and saw how we are working in a relaxed way, similar to you here in Singapore, without having to artificially change or forced to adopt anything. We are just functioning and working normally. For him, it was strange that no one is supervising what we do and telling us what to do. We were doing all these on our own, as we know. And then, he came to my house for dinner and he said, “You know, my visit to Bosnia changed my view.” I asked, “What is that?” He said, “Now I realised it is good that the Islamic institutions be separated from the state.” I said, “Very good, thank you! And you have to pay for this lesson.

It’s not free!” Hahaha… So now he is a big political figure in the post-revolutionary period of his country. I don’t want to mention his name because I don’t want to embarrass him, but I am very glad he changed. I hope he will now work for a single society in the country he is in.

So in that sense, we are going to have a challenge. There are going to be people who are going to challenge us all the time and I welcome them to challenge, but they have to understand also that I based my arguments on the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

So I do not accept their revisionist views of our faith. We should be proud of our faith. God knows very well what is in our hearts and no one is in charge to look at what is in my heart. God is the only one who created me. I belong to Him, I don’t belong to these people who are telling me that I am not a good Muslim. I don’t care what they say. And let me say again: Never complain and never be compelled to explain; but be as you are.

Chairperson: Thank you. For the benefit of Sheikh, yes we have been able to achieve the things we wanted to do in Singapore but we also have our challenges and we also take the same approach where we try and reach out to these people to engage them, not to push them away, but to embrace them and change their minds. To the gentleman who had visited Bosnia, maybe you can ask them to visit Singapore.

Audience: First of all, I have to say that while listening to your enlightening speech, I felt as if a close relative was talking because your country is very much intertwined with my nation, Turkey. More than 6 million people of Bosnian origin are related to people in Turkey. This figure is bigger than the population of Bosnia combined.

Secondly, you are a hero for us because your name had become a household name during those tumultuous and terrible days of Bosnia in early nineties. Well, I felt that

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I had to say just a few words as Turkey’s name came up when the alternatives were brought up by you in the aftermath of what mainly Muslim nations went through in the more recent part of our long history. As you have brought to our attention once again, in the teaching of Islam, Prophet Muhammad has told us that we do not need intermediary in our communion with God. This is probably one of the most distinctive aspects of Islam, among the revered religions. And this brings us directly to the second major point that you made in your statement, and that is: “Guys, use your mind! God has given you the intelligence and you have to make the right choices for your own and your society’s good.” Well this is precisely how we also understand secularism. As you have rightly pointed out, the Turkish example came with sacrifice. Well, what doesn’t? On the other hand, we also came of age. This does not necessarily mean that our two different and distinct models at hand, should go for one or the other. There are always grey areas between them. Secularism is a

legal term to start with. It is about your rights and obligations as an individual and vis-à-vis your society. Should we at any point look at all the distinguished guests here today and outside the conference room, and say that just by virtue of religious denomination, one section of people have different rights and obligations from the others? I think the world has already covered enough distance. The discussion on this is already mute.

Then, of course, there is a big discussion about where Muslims societies stand given their recent record, which is not so bright. Well, I would say that the third message, as I calls it, will be reinforcement This third message is what you had mentioned 26

and it is this: Instead of trying to have others accept us just by virtue that we are Muslims, we have to come out with our virtues and abilities, and prove to them that we are a strong and capable people. Thank you.

Sheikh: Well, thank you! This gives us encouragement and hope that Turkey, which we call in Bosnia Herzegovina our “mother”, will continue to be a good mother for others. I am leaving Singapore tomorrow night, insya Allah, and I will be in Istanbul for an appointment with your Prime Minister, Recep Tayyib Erdogan, and the next day with the President of Turkey. You see, how lucky I am meeting here the President and Prime Minister of Singapore, and immediately going to Ankara to meet the Prime Minister and then President of Turkey. So, thank you!

Yes, I think you are perfectly right. And if I may add just for clarification, we have in the Muslim countries some conservative ulama [religious scholars] who have “secularophobia”. Whenever you mention “secular”, they are afraid. But, if any religion can be described to be closest to the idea of secularism, it is Islam. Now, don’t tell to others that I said this to you this. Hahaha… Why? Because “secular” means coming out from the framework of the Church mentality or the Christian world. This is coming out to the dunya [world] and to get involved in the world affairs; this is secularism. We are told in the Qur’an: wa la tansa sinahi wa la dunya [1:42:32] – “don’t forget the affairs of the world.” So you have to be out on the streets and in the markets. You have to be businessmen and you have to pray on the streets of Paris as well, if necessary, I mean. We are not a closed people and I am certainly not a monk. I am married and I have two children. I have problems just as you do. I am not somebody who is holy; I am just like you and everybody else.

And the Prophet Muhammad didn’t want people to look at him as an angel. He was telling them that he eats and sleep and doing all the things that you are doing. So we are all human beings. Thus, when we talk about secularism, I want to explain that confusion happens when some people introduce secularism as anti-religion and anti-God. Unfortunately, we had Communism, who did take secularism in such a way.

And Communism eventually destroyed itself and secularism because the most dangerous people of any ideology, group or religion are people who were from within. Communism was not destroyed from outside; it collapsed from inside, by corruption, bribes, and of course, misconceptions. So, I want to say to the Muslims that the most dangerous people for Islam are not from outside, but from within: Those who are creating misunderstanding and misrepresentation, and so on. So, secularism has a bad reputation because of the secularists, and not because of us. It is because they did not uphold the values and principles of secularism. In a sense,

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secularism has two meanings: the physical and the political. We cannot accept secularism at the physical level as if there is no God out there; so that we reject that. But politically, it is acceptable. In fact, it is not only acceptable; this is the only way that we can organise society and the state. If we understand secularism in the political sense as a division of labour and responsibility, then we have to know who is responsible for what.

There are politicians who are responsible for this and there are religious people who are responsible for that. So, there shall be no intervention and no interference in the affairs of each other. We do have this two concepts of secularism: one is the French concept, which promotes the interference of the state into religious affairs and not allowing the religious institutions to be independent; and two, we have secularism of the American type, which asserts that the state has no right to interfere in church or mosque business‌ And I can testify to this because I was an Imam in Chicago for 5 years. So, we want this kind of secularism, even in Muslim countries.

Give us the freedom so we can develop our Islamic institutions on our own and the state should not interfere in our affairs except to assist us to survive, like you do in Singapore, thank you!

Chairperson: Thank you very much. In Singapore, we do interfere; but not to destroy but to create – to make it more innovative and better. That’s why we have MUIS, basically. Can I invite the next person to comment or ask, please.

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Audience: I am a student of International Islamic University of Malaysia. Personally, I have a few friends from Bosnia. They are very well-mannered and knowledgeable students. Well, now I understand that it is due to their Mufti, and we are very pleased to have you here! Well, you have been talking about tolerance. So, my question is: To what extent should we be tolerant? Personally, I have been to some inter-faith dialogues and I see acceptance rather than tolerance. Is tolerance equal to acceptance? And secondly, you were highlighting about Muslim politicians; can you shed some light on what is the role for our Muslim politicians or what should or could we expect from them. Thank you!

Sheikh: Let me take this second question first, but you have to be patient with me.

Let me tell you what is the difference between politicians, priests, and journalists.

I heard it from somebody else but I will not tell you from whom. They say that politicians do not know how to tell the truth. The priests, on the other hand, do not know how to tell a lie. And the journalist is the one who does not know how to make the difference between the two! Hahaha… This is wisdom, and if you like it, you can take it. They say that on the average length of life, the shortest is the journalists’ because they live under stress all the time. And the longest living professionals are priests and politicians: the priests because they have the spiritual tranquility, and they live in peace and spirit; and politicians live long because they have th motivation to stay in power as long as they can! And this is real; I know it from inside, if you like!

For example, those big centres for political planning of the world and of the global issues, they are very much interested about the health of presidents and prime ministers: what they eat, where they go, how they go – because they have to plan who is to come after them. So, there was one politician whom doctors say he will die in six months because of the cancer but he didn’t die after six months. Then, those who were asking came and said to the doctors: “But you informed us that he will live only six months and we prepared everything for the next prime minister.

What are we going to do now?” And the doctors said, “You know, you never predict about politicians. They can survive the impossible. So our predictions or diagnosis were wrong!”

I’m just trying to tell you that if you have a motivation and drive to work like the politicians, you will survive long. Without these kinds of people, it would be very difficult to run a society. Why? Because I read an interview with Dalai Lama of Tibet about a Western journalist who visited him in his office and was following him everyday to see what he was doing. And then at the end of his journey that lasted several months perhaps, he asked the Dalai Lama: “Okay I’ve seen what you have 29

been doing, but what is your philosophy?” And Dalai Lama said to him: “My whole philosophy is to take care of myself.” This journalist was surprised, and he insisted, “No, I’m asking a serious question. Tell me about your philosophy.” The Dalai Lama said again: “Yes, my philosophy is to take care of myself.” Of course, the interview continued after that and eventually, the Dalai Lama asked the journalist: “But I want to ask you… What is your philosophy? Because to take care of yourself is something good. If you don’t know how to take care of yourself, how are you going to help me?”

You heard about this Russian-American great novelist called Ayn Rand? I quoted her. She wrote “The Virtue of Selfishness.” We in the Abrahamic tradition, we have this: that you have to care about your neighbor and you must be ready to sacrifice for your neighbor; there is no faith without sacrifice, and so on. So she is developing this so-called ‘objectivist ethics’, in the sense that you have to be first of all selfconscious, that is, to take care of yourself. And I would say that the Muslim is the greatest contribution to the Muslim community at large. If you are not a problem to yourself and if you can solve your own problems, you are a great blessing to all of us. Because then, everyone is asking help! So what I am trying to say is that some people who have more energy should care not just for themselves, but to others too.

These people are sometimes called politicians, and some of them are called leaders of the community. And they have to devote more time. But for the rest, you have to take care of yourself, your family, your children, and such… If somebody tells you that you have to take care of a million people, or two million to sixty million – like Recep Tayyib Erdogan, of 80 million Turks all around the world and in Turkey.

And not only about Turkey, he has to go to Syria, Egypt, Tunisia and everywhere.

And everyone is expecting him to be a magician, who can solve all the problems that are in the Middle East. I mean, there are some people whom God gives more energy to take care of others and we should appreciate that. This is what we call a leader, and not everybody can be a leader. But when you recognise somebody, especially among young people, who has this ability to take care of others, please support him or her, so that he or she can, later on, become someone who can take care of everybody. My connection with the Dalai Lama is in the philosophy that we should take care of ourselves, but at the same time, recognise others who have the time, energy and will to take care of others too, and support him or her. And these people are called leaders.

And your first question, first of all, thank you to the International Islamic University of Malaysia (IIUM). And I want to acknowledge IIUM in Kuala Lumpur and the Malaysian government for the scholarships given to the students in Bosnia. All of the students who studied in IIUM had come back to Bosnia and took very high 30

positions in society and in the government. There are at least four ambassadors who graduated at IIUM. One is in Tehran, one in Peking, one is in Jakarta, and the other one is in Kuala Lumpur. So IIUM produced the ambassadors for the state of Bosnia.

Congratulations to IIUM!

Chairperson: Thank you very much. I like Sheikh’s deďŹ nition of politicians, not because it suits us, but I think the truth of the matter is, the ruling party in Singapore do it because we want to make sure Singapore continues to be a very good nation.

Can I invite the last two comments or questions, please.

Audience: Sheikh, I’m alluding to what you said earlier about how the most dangerous people in Islam are the Muslims themselves. We know the Muslim ummah is facing this problem of terrorism and radicalisation all over the globe, so I like to ask: What can we, as a Muslim community, do to counter this problem and what can the religious authorities and governments do, and whether they are doing enough? Thank you.

Audience: I want to ask your opinion on the challenges of the Muslim women and their position in modern society. While we are in pursuit of higher education, be it Islamic studies and/or secular studies, what would your advice be for us to stay on route to be a good Muslim while being on par with our fellow non-Muslims in this modern world. Thank you.

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Sheikh: Regarding people who are violent and disturb us, this is why we read this special prayer, rabbana la tu akhizna bi ma fa’ la sufaha wa minha [1:58:50] – “May God not charge us for the sins of those irresponsible people who do bad things on our behalf.” Please remember this and pray everyday, so that we don’t have people who do bad things and then associate it with Islam. Now, there is no “Islamic terrorist”, and ‘Islam’ itself means ‘peace’ and you cannot associate Islam with terror. Unfortunately we have this challenge and embarrassment for all of us, especially after September 11, and after bombings in Madrid in 2004, in

UK on 7/7 of 2005; and not to mention what happened in Istanbul, Bali, Jakarta, Bombay, and so on. We had a series of this kind of terror. It is, on the other hand, too much to highlight these as an “Islamic” phenomenon. There is logic at work here: All these terrorists in the bombings were Muslims, but it does not mean that all Muslims are therefore terrorists. And it was very hard for us to live and explain this when the media especially, uses “Islamic terrorism”. Thus, when someone mentions “terrorism”, immediately, we think it’s the Muslim. We are now victims of this propaganda, so we constantly feel guilty of what is happening there. I think this kind of attribution to Muslims is not fair because if a Christian does something wrong, we do not blame Jesus for that, we don’t say, “Jesus is responsible”, or we don’t say, “The Bible is responsible and you have to change the Bible because of that”. Similarly, if some Jews do something wrong, we don’t blame Moses and we don’t blame the Torah. But when it comes to Muslims, the whole world is shouting

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and trying to tell us, “You have to change the Qur’an!” You know, they blame the Prophet, they make cartoons of him, and they do all these things to put the blame of Islam and all Muslims. This is not fair. Yes, I think we should be bold and recognise that there are people who are doing wrong things on our behalf and we should stand up and say, “We condemn this; this is not Islam; and we don’t allow such doings on our behalf!” This is what we have to do. But I think this is not enough. We have to work and be awakened. We have to make known – in our neighborhood, in our house, in talking with our parents, with our friends – and recognise the kind of things that can be dangerous to us.

Now, if any society in the world is peaceful and has this tradition of doing good to others, it is Norway. And I just came from Norway, just a few days ago to attend this two hundred year anniversary of the Oslo University. They invited me to attend a conference on how to do counter-terrorism. You know what happened with Anders Behring Breivik, but you should also know about the book he wrote called Manifesto that is available on the Internet. In the book, he claims that he got his ideas from the Serbian war criminals who committed genocide against Muslims. And in this Manifesto, he asked openly that the indigenous Muslims in Europe should be wiped out. I visited the island in Norway where the killings took place. It is very strange that he brought a car with explosives, and he exploded these explosives in the city of Oslo; and then from there, he went to this island where the Workers’ Youth League of the Labour Party, who has many Muslims as their members, was having a youth camp. He went there dressed in a police uniform, with a gun, and he pointed it all these young men and women, saying, “Come on, there is explosion there, I want to protect you, as a policeman.” And all these young men and women came to him and he shot them – 77 of them. It is very interesting that among these people was a Muslim girl and she was shouting, “Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar! [God is great!

God is great!]”. And there was one Norwegian boy who was repeating after her, “Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!” And they were both saved. And this boy, later on and even on television – as Imam Senaid informed me – confessed to be a Muslim; he recited the shahadah [declaration of faith as a Muslim] because he said: “I believe that the ‘Allahu akbar!’ saved me.” There are different ways of how people see and understand things. So now, we are very glad that the people in Norway came to understand the situation better. The Bishop of Oslo, who spoke in Munich, said: “We Norwegians had lived in the belief that never would such things happen to us because we did everything that was necessary. But when it happened, we were in a shock.” And then he said: “We will stand up and we will not allow Muslims to be, in a way, targets for these people.” So, what I want to say also is this: that there are two situations about terrorism. In times of war, you can expect that some kind of crimes can be done. But in times of peace, it is very difficult to predict what will happen.

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So this is a phenomenon of this civilisation. What I like to advise sometimes is that we should speak openly and in public about this phenomenon. But on the other hand, if you speak too much about it, you give the wrong ideas – you give ideas to the terrorists what to do. But if you don’t speak about it, then you are surprised. So it’s always a problem on how to find the balance and to find the right way. But in all, I think we should be cautious and alert; we should not give a chance for such acts; and various communities must coordinate. I’m impressed with what I have seen in Singapore. Please, continue this. I would like to tell you something: Rely on God and yourself; and don’t listen too much to what the others from outside have say. Please be aware and take care of yourself. Remember this philosophy: Take care of yourself. Once you take care of yourself, then you are capable to take care of others. So this is what I would like to suggest to you.

Now, about the question on Muslim women… Thank you very much for asking this question. I was expecting it. I thought that this was going to be the first question after my lecture… I only have on simple advice for the Muslim women; and that is – Don’t expect from the men to give you your rights. You have to fight for your rights on your own. But don’t be violent; be nice with arguments. What I want to say is this: I wish that the Muslims, especially Muslim women, be more proactive.

I believe that currently our sisters are not proactive. Now, I know one sister who complained to me and she criticised me a lot. I was just silent throughout and listened patiently. When she finished all her criticisms – and it was very, very severe criticisms – I said to her, “My sister, I agree with all of what you had to say. So I support you.” And then, she said, “Why should you agree with what I said? I don’t need your agreement.” I mean, this is another aspect of feminism, if you like, that they don’t want to share anything with men. I won’t advise you to go this way. But I do advise you to be proactive. I mean, you don’t expect that somebody will come and tell you: “You know, because you need your rights, I will give it to you with a smile.” No, this does not happen. So you have to be proactive by asking questions openly and fighting for it.

By and large, I think decent Muslim men do have good relationships with women, such as their wives and mothers. Because you see, who gave birth to us? How did we come to this world? It is through our mothers, and this is why we have in the hadith [Prophetic Tradition] that – when asked … – Prophet Muhammad said repeatedly for three times, “Mother, mother, mother”; and only then did he say, “Father”. And believe me, even today I don’t know the date of birth of my children, but my wife knows. I mean, not because I don’t want to remember, but I know that my wife knows, so I don’t need to remember… Hahaha! So she is taking care of my children and I am taking care of my nation; we have divided the labour.

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What I’m trying to say is that the best thing in this world that God has given us is the human being. And the most enjoyable thing that we have here is that you have the love, and a peaceful and pleasant family life. You know, they say I am not rich, but they say that I am famous, in terms of people who know me... Hahaha! But I want to tell you something: the most enjoyable time of my life is when I am with my family; because I know this is the only that I possess in my life. All the good friends and colleagues that I know, and all my work – they are all good and I like them. But at home, I have my grandchild – the most enjoyable thing in my life.

I do love my children, but somehow I love my grandchild more… I don’t know why… But somehow he is part of my life. I think of him and anything that he does or say, it is like revelation for me; I enjoy it. So family is something that we have to cherish. And who is the one who holds the family? It is the womenfolk: your mother and your wife. So you got to have the respect for them. As for the public life and whether women should be involved more in society and have more rights – such as be in the parliament and so on – this is good. I have heard that you have women in your parliament. I just met your Minister of State, Madam Halimah Yaacob; she is responsible for the Ministry for Community Development, Youth and Sports. And she raised the issue of what I think about women. I think very highly of women. And I have just one simple advice to them: Please be proactive. Work for change and don’t wait for somebody to give you your rights. You have to fight for your rights, and I will too.

Chairperson: Thank you very much. I think, we have to assure the Sheikh that in Singapore Muslim women are very proactive. Several of them run Muslim organizations. One of them, Madam Moliah Hashim is heading one of our biggest organisations here. And several of them are also holding high positions in the Islamic Religious Council of Singapore.

Sheikh: And by the way, for those people who organise my visit, they know that my secretary is a woman, so I’m very proud. So this is my argument: When they challenge me, and say that I don’t care about women, I reply that my secretary is a woman; so they keep quiet... Hahaha!

Chairperson: Another point I like to add, Sheikh, is on what you had mentioned about secularism. We are living in a secular society in Singapore but our secular society, as you rightly pointed out, is very different from other societies. We recognise 10 official religions; we recognise the role of religion in society; and there is a close participation between the state and religion. That is why you met interfaith leaders yesterday that reflects a proactive engagement between the government and people of religious faith.

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Sheikh: If I may clarify, I am also living in a secular society in Bosnia Herzegovina, even though some say that it is a Muslim state within Europe. But I would avoid using the term “secular” because it has this ideological implication, and especially connected with the Communism that failed. I think, it is better – when speaking of society or state we live in – to say that we live in a “democratic society” and a society that observes human rights. Thus, democratic basically means secular; because, what is democracy? It is the principle of producing the laws in parliament by the people who are elected by the people. So then you have representation. And these laws are abiding for everyone who lives in that society. So this is what we call secularism too. Or we could also say that we all should live in a democracy. I think human rights and democracy are the two most important values in modern civilisation. I hope we will continue to maintain and develop this; and I hope the Muslims will learn these two great principles of modern society and target them for development. Why is Turkey a good model for today? Because Turkey is exercising these two very simple principles: democracy and human rights. And if you have these then you have a successful society where everybody is happy and participating.

I would also encourage Muslims to think about strengthening civil society or non-governmental organisations. You know, in the United States, for every fifty citizens, there is one non-governmental organisation. And compare that to Egypt, which, for example, for every 80,000 people, there is only one non-governmental organisation. So we have to organise ourselves. There are four forms of organisation: 36

tribal, hierarchical, bureaucratic and network organisations. I think that modern civilisation is based on this “network organisation”, where you have the core and around it you have these small units that are connected. Everyone is therefore equal or somehow feels equal; and no one feels that there is somebody above him in a network. Instead, he feels like one of the many units that work for the same goal of social benefit and the social good. So in that aspect, I think we Muslims should learn a lot. I know that it is good that you know the Qur’an by heart and it is good that you know the hadith [Prophetic Tradition]. But Iet me tell you something: When I was in the war in Bosnia in 1993, there was a pilot who was supposed to drive me from one place to another and it was very dangerous. And we were going to the area by helicopter; so, we risk being a target of the enemy forces. So I asked him what is the possibility of being hit? He said, “80%.” So, there is only twenty percent of survival. And I asked him, “Do you know how to recite the shahadah [declaration of faith as a Muslim] and do you know anything about the Quran?” He said, “I didn’t go to a maktab [religious college], so I don’t know. I mean, I know how to be a pilot but I don’t know how to recite the Qur’an.” So I said to him, “Would you allow me to teach you?” He said, “Okay, but before you teach me the shahadah, allow me to teach you how to pilot the helicopter. In case I die, then you can take over.” So then I said to him, “Alright. Let us divide our roles. I will recite the shahadah and I will read the Qur’an, but you will pilot the helicopter. Therefore, I can appreciate what you know and you can appreciate what I know.” What I’m trying to say, in this particular case, is that it’s good you have knowledge of religion; but in this particular case, it is very important that this pilot knows how to pilot a helicopter well! Otherwise, I would not be able to get from one place to another! So we have to appreciate the signs of God and the different forms of knowledge – not only of a religious sort. Let some people memorise the whole Qur’an. But this does not mean that every one of us must memorise the whole Qur’an. Let us appreciate those who memorise the Qur’an. But those who memorise Qur’an should also appreciate those who know how to pilot helicopters and airplanes, so that people can travel. These sort of things, I think, should be understood by Muslims. We should understand and increase our knowledge and be knowledgeable, and be aware of the society we live in. Thank you very much.

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ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS COUNCIL OF SINGAPORE (MUIS)

The Islamic Religious Council of Singapore (Muis) is a statutory board under the Ministry of Community Development, Youth and Sports (MCYS) and comes under the direct purview of the Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs. Muis’ main role is to advise the Singapore Government on all matters pertaining to Islamic affairs in Singapore and to manage all aspects of religious life of the Singapore Muslim Community.

Its aim is to establish a Muslim community of excellence that is religiously profound and socially progressive, and that thrives in a multi-religious society, secular state and globalised world. Its priority is to set the Islamic Agenda, shape Religious Life and forge a Singapore Muslim Identity, that is progressive, inclusive, adaptive and contributive. It champions forward-looking discourse in Islam and promotes interfaith understanding through community engagement initiatives to enhance the social cohesion and well-being of the nation.

MUIS ACADEMY

Muis Academy is established to develop the religious leadership of the future for the Singapore Muslim Community.

The Academy develops and conducts courses and trainings to build capacity in shaping the progressive religious life of the community. It is a key platform that supports the vision of establishing a Muslim community of excellence for Singapore.

Formed in 2006, its niche is to provide training programmes for Muis’ institutions and stakeholders such as the mosques, madrasahs, zakat (Islamic tithe), waqf (endowment), Hajj, and offer courses on Islamic learning and contemporary issues in the Islamic world for all.

The academy also serves as the repository of Singaporean Muslim’s collective experience and knowledge in managing religious affairs in a multi-religious and secular setting. It serves as a conduit for Muis to share Singapore’s model of religious administration and services, expertise and technology to Muslim communities in the region and beyond.

OUR VISION A Muslim Community of Excellence that is religiously profound and socially progressive, which thrives in a multireligious society, secular state and globalised world.

OUR MISSION To broaden and deepen the Singapore Muslim Community’s understanding and practice of Islam, while enhancing the well-being of the nation.

OUR PRIORITY To set the Islamic Agenda, shape Religious Life and forge the Singapore Muslim Identity.

Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura (Islamic Religious Council of Singapore)