Ecstasy and Madness: Dionysian Neptune

ECSTASY AND MADNESS Lect ur e by: GEORGIA STATHIS, M.B.A.

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The arch e t y p al imag e of the sign of Pisces is associ at e d with the conce p t of Ecsta sy and Madne s s. This experie n c e has the cap a city to chan g e you forever and ever and while in its spell, you have no knowledg e of the final outco m e , the final journey, the final landing at the shor e for which you never set sail.

In our chronological history, we experie n c e this phen o m e n o n mor e than once and ther e are cert ain time s during the lifetim e that its intensity sup er c e d e s anyt hing else. It is after thes e particular cycles that gre a t chan g e and soulfulnes s has the opport u nity to em er g e and we beco m e one with Spirit or God or Godde s s or what ev e r syst e m you choos e to use. Its impact is so phe no m e n a l that we never go back to wher e we were .

The first que stion one might ask is, is the quality of ecst a s y and mad n e s s on the sa m e end of the persp e c tiv e, or, inde e d at opposit e ends of the spectr u m ? Perha p s it is a spectr u m , a kind of et er n al time line. When we think about et er nity, we don’t really don’t know wher e it ends, nor do we know wher e it begins.

Perha p s the qualities of ecst a s y and mad n e s s danc e toge t h e r throug h o u t our lives, making it very difficult for us to det er mi n e the appro pri at e bound a ri e s for either quality. As we face the precipice wher e thes e two come toget h e r , we are given a choice.

Shall we jump in wholeh e a r t e dly or reserv e that choice for anot h e r day?

This quality is very Dionysian in scop e.

The myt hology of the god Dionysu s, whose na m e me a n s , “he who is twice born”, is the arch e t y p al exp eri e n c e that find the m s el v e s in the throe s of this god. Ther e is an ecst a tic high that fills us with lust, with joy, with intens e pain as well as intens e plea s ur e associat e d with this type. These people walk throug h our lives every day. Some of thes e folks may be your local drug addict or alcoholic, as well as your local heal er, artist, or danc er.

All forms of ecst a s y and a kind of mad n e s s , but som e with a healt hier tone than other s.

Every day we live, differe n t type s of people walk throug h our lives. When we are ripe for a transfor m a ti on al experie n c e , we me e t the Ecstatic person ality who chan g e s us forever.

Some ti m e s it come s throug h a lover, a child, or throug h illness.

Growing up as a child, I was sent to Greek School after

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America n school som e ti m e s two days and som e ti m e s thre e days a week. This went on for sever al year s, an exp eri e n c e that was mostly quite plea s a n t , but, at time s, bec a u s e of various teac h e r s , som e ti m e s not quite so.

Ther e was one particular teac h e r….t ho u g h we all hat e d her, we actu ally read the Odyss ey and the Iliad in Greek, in ancien t Greek, which is very differen t than mod er n Greek.

When you are about nine and ten year s old that’s a pret ty heavy thing. That’s why we thoug h t she was really crazy.

Actually, she was proba bly one of thes e types. In fact, when I rem e m b e r it, she prob a bly was bec a u s e she’s a little nuts. But, the myt hs cam e to life for me at that point and they have sort of bee n in my history. This particular history is such an ess e n ti al arch e t y p e bec a u s e if we didn’t hav e this arch e t y p al cat e g or y we wouldn’t be able to mak e, shall we say, the break t h r o u g h s that we as a civilization or we as a cultur e have bee n able to mak e over the cent urie s. And, for thos e who have this char a c t e r alive in their life, their whole life is about breaking throug h other realities and trying to come back. You know, it’s like going on an out er spac e trip and trying to com e back and find the way hom e. So, with that, we’ll start.

Now, this type is the one that see s the glimps e behind the veil.

That lives with an alter e d reality that we can’t see as a society.

And for thos e of you in the room who are Pisce a n or who hav e a very strong Neptu n e , this may see m very familiar. For thos e who are not, you may know som e b o d y who is like this. Ther e is a ma n who wrot e a book a long time ago. In fact, I brough t the book bec a u s e I don’t eve n know if you can get this book any mor e . It’s Walter Otto’s book called “Dionysu s, Myth and Cult” and I think it was writte n in 1965. So, I don’t eve n know if it is aroun d any mor e but he is quot e d in a lot of differe n t books.

And, he has this wond erful quot e, he has actu ally sever al wond erful quot e s we are going to use tonight. One of the quot e s I love is the description, “The alien and the hostile unite in miraculou s har mo n y.” When this type ent er s your life, ageold loss (??) had lost their power and even the dime n sion of time and spac e are no longer valid.” Now, som e of us live like this from day to day. At cert ain time s in our lives, in fact, a lot of people thes e days, thos e who are born aroun d 1949- 50- 51,

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are actu ally exp eri e n cing this arch e t y p e bec a u s e ther e are cert ain things hap p e ni n g astrologically that would reflect this particular transition. If we were actu ally looking at an astrologic horosco p e we could actu ally see Neptu n e—if it was moving throug h a promin e n t part in the sky in your horosco p e you would be living this particular char a c t e r . So, we start with the god or the char a c t e r called Dionysu s. Some peopl e call him “Di-on- ees u s” and som e peopl e call him “Di-on- ysus” and Greeks say “De- own- esos.” Okay? And, ther e is a lot of symbolis m associat e d with this arch e t y p al char a c t e r . In fact, that she e t that you got on the floor describ e s just a few of the symbols that—if you find yours elf attr ac t e d to thos e symbols, or may b e you have never bee n attr a c t e d to the m befor e but sudd e nly they are all of a sudd e n in your life, get ready for a roller coast e r ride bec a u s e this guy is coming to stay at your table for awhile. Okay? So, we are going to talk a little bit about Dionysu s tonight. And I want you to really just listen to the story. Okay? How many know the story of Dionysus. I me a n, other than the fact that he was the god of wine. Okay.

We are going into storyt elling mod e now. And, as you go throug h it, just mark som e pictur e s in your mind. Don’t worry about rem e m b e ri n g this. There is not a test at the end of this two hours. But, as we go into the char a c t e r , you will und er s t a n d why I am bringing this up.

DIONYSUS Dionysus is oftenti m e s referr e d to as “He who is twice born.”

The first thing that come s to mind when I think about that is the rebor n Christian s or reborn Fund a m e n t a list s, or peopl e who have found God, or people who have had an “A - HA” experie n c e .

This is this ele m e n t ... this ecst a tic/ m a d n e s s char a c t e r coming to life. He who is twice born. He is the result... now we have to talk a little bit about how he showe d up. He is actu ally the result of a union betw e e n the god Zeus who was uniting with many. If you know your myt hology, you know he united with many. So, this is not really speci al, but he unite d, at one point, with the Que e n of Theb e s, her na m e was Sem el e. And as a result of this union, she was dearly in love with him and she bec a m e preg n a n t— a s ma ny of his little char a c t e r s did. In fact, a friend of mine back east, I always bring her up in thes e

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lectur e s, Wendy Ashley, is in Maine. She is an Astro - myt hologist and she lectur e s to union analyst s for about 25 year s about the symbolis m in the horosco p e that is union and astrological and mythological—sh e is incredible. But, her explan a tion of Zeus uniting with all thes e char a c t e r s in the myth s is that the children that were born of thes e unions are wher e the major cults or ritual place m e n t s beg a n in ancient Greec e , wher e all the religious cere m o ni e s and the differe n t ways of appro a c hin g religion cam e . And Dionysus was one of the children of one of thes e unions. But, basically, what hap p e n e d is—he wasn’t allowed a full ter m birth bec a u s e at one point, his mot h e r Sem el e, who was very pregn a n t , proba bly about the seve n t h mont h, so he was pretty develop e d at that point. She was feeling very lonely bec a u s e Zeus was prob a bly off with som e b o d y else, as most of the m proba bly did. And of cours e, Hera, or Juno, (his wife is Hera or Juno, dep e n di n g on the Roma n or Greek version that you are reading) get s an ear on this and she is so angry about the fact that this child is coming, which you would think would be odd bec a u s e he had so many children, exce p t she had a gift of proph e c y her e, and she knew that if this particular child was to be born, it would chan g e the entire hier arc hy of the god in their syst e m s . Like, once this child would be born, he would chan g e the whole real m of Mount Olymp u s, so she was particularly not wanting him to be born.

So, she sort of weas els her way into Theb e s and she catch e s the nurs e. Now, I want you to rem e m b e r this symbol of a nurs e, okay, the car et a k e r of the Que e n of Theb e s, Sem el e. She says, “You know, I think that if she is this lonely, she ought to really ask him to kind of hang out (this is my version, this is not in the book), a little bit mor e with him mor e and actu ally if he really loves her as much as he says he does, then he really should come to her and show hims elf as a god, not just as a man.”

Becau s e every time he would app e a r to Sem el e who was not preg n a n t with his child, he would come as a man. And, of cours e, he did that bec a u s e if he cam e as a god, she would be destroy e d.

Q/Com m e n t : So they think the nurs e is...

Georgia: The nurs e, she puts the bug in the ear of the nurs e.

And the nurs e goes and tells Sem el e who is extr e m e ly

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gullible and obviously very vulner a bl e. Now, we nee d to look at that asp e c t, too, the gullibility and the vulner a bility, feeling som e w h a t aba n d o n e d or, you know, set aside.

So, and she’s pregn a n t , so she is proba bly a little hor mo n al, too. Finally Zeus shows up, I gue s s, to visit one night and she says, “You know, gee, I’ve bee n really thinking I’m lonely and I want to see you.” He says, “I love you. Anything you want—I will just give you anyt hing you want.” She says, “Is that true?” And he said, “I promis e you. I give you my word.” She says, “I want to see you as a god.” And he bolts, you know, bec a u s e he knows that if he shows hims elf as a god what will happ e n .

She will be destroy e d. She will be consu m e d by flame s. She will die. And the child—well, we don’t know about that at this point. She says, “I don’t care. I want to be part of you. I want to be one with you.” And, now this is anot h e r the m e with this arch e t y p al char a c t e r is that ther e is a very, very dee p longing from the mo m e n t of birth to be part of som e t hi n g gre a t e r than the self, which I would call God in this cas e. I me a n, it can be anyt hing you believe in, but in gen er al, I would say God. So, he has promis e d her, he’s given his word. He shows hims elf as a god and, of cours e, what hap p e n s is that she is consu m e d by flame s.

Right?

And she is destroy e d and she is thrown into the und er world. But, the child who is his child and Zeus was very prot e c tive of his children, was pre m a t u r e and he burst out of the womb as she is being consu m e d by flam e s.

Pretty heavy. The thing about the myth s is that they are pret ty heavy. They are pret ty violent. And he take s that child and he sews it into his thigh, which by the way is very much associ at e d with Sagitt arius which can also be very much associ at e d with this type like Pisces, and the thigh is oftenti m e s consid er e d to be the seat of Divine Wisdo m. So, this baby is implant e d in the thigh

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and is allowed to dev elop with the fath er for the rest of the two, may b e thre e, mont h period that he has to develop, at which point he is born. And he imm e di a t ely, goes right up to Olympu s, I me a n the fath er just send s him right up to Olympu s and, of cours e, ther e are no seat s in Olympu s for this god, this child, this man -child god. What does hap p e n , which is very inter e s ti ng in the stories, is Hessia, or as som e of the myt hs called her, Vesta, who has a seat with the gods, bec a u s e she want s to pres e r v e the funda m e n t a l family order, get s up from her sea t, goes to tend the Holy Flame, which is, by the way, associ at e d with Capricorn, and gives her seat to Dionysus. Who was only ther e a brief time bec a u s e as soon as Hera catch e s wind of him, that he is alive and is brea t hi n g, she is looking for him and she is trailing him and she is going after him for years and year s and year s. Now, this is the next part of the story.

The next part of the story is that he is very young. He is a god, but he is a baby. So, the nurs e s are all taking care of him.

Now, the the m e of nurs e s again. They are all taking car e of him, but Hera kee p s getting hold of all thes e nurs e s and doing thes e weird things with their minds and they all go crazy and they all go ma d. Okay? And event u ally they have to leave and a new nurs e com e s in and she does som e t hi n g screwy with her mind and they go ma d. And, so he is surrou n d e d by wome n who are ma d when he is growing up who are dressin g him in children’s clothe s—little girl’s clothing, not little boy’s, bec a u s e what they are trying to do is hide him from her so that she does n’t see him. Actually, when we finish I will give you a story of how this really happ e n e d to som e b o d y I know. It literally --and he is very Pisce a n and very ecst a s y/ m a d n e s s type. I can give it to you now. When he was very, very young, his mot h e r want e d a girl and she only had boys. And he was bea u tiful. He had long, gold curls, you know, thos e ban a n a curls that they use d to do with kids in the old days. And she use d to dres s him as a girl until he was about four year s of age and he was always surroun d e d by wome n, the fath er was never aroun d, and didn’t even tell her friends that he was a boy. And he had Pisces, very

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strong Pisces in the horoscop e and is a rath er ma d kind of char a c t e r , but he’s not crazy, I me a n he is very much in touch with the feminine. Now, this is the other thing that Dionysus does do as a result of being hidde n by the nurs e s in wome n’s clothing. He develop s his feminine side. He dev elops his crea tive side. Becau s e he is hidde n, he has to invent his own world. He has his own playtim e, his own fant a sy, he spe n d s a lot of time alone. He learns about magic. He learns about wat er. He spe n d s a lot of time in the ocea n and with the wat er.

He is always drinking lots of liquids, like milk and honey. And, of cours e, as he gets a little older, he beco m e s an adolesc e n t and after an adolesc e n t gets to be 13 or 14, what do they start to do? They start to rebel, right? So, at this point in his history, he splits. He goes off to the woods to fool aroun d with the satyrs and the goat s. They’re into what? They’re into this thing called wine. Right? And he start s to figure out a way to mak e wine out of vines, and to mak e vines that grow grap e s and so this is wher e the beginning of his creativity em e r g e s . He start s to sep ar a t e from the feminine and goes into his own creativity and start s to figure out how to mak e ivy... he’s really good at growing ivy, and in fact a lot of time s you will see “groun d cover”—a lot of time s this type will have a lot of ground cover or ivy aroun d their hom e s , or they will be attr a c t e d to that. I don’t know how ma ny of you live in hom e s wher e ther e is lots of ground cover, or now with the droug h t ther e proba bly isn’t much, but before the droug h t. I’m just curious, Joann e, do you have a hous e that has lots of groun d cover?

Janet: The hous e I used to live in had quite a lot of ivy crawling aroun d. I’m in an apar t m e n t right now.

But, I’ve always bee n attr ac t e d to vining kinds of plant s.

Georgia: Vining kinds of plant s, yeah. And this is what he start s to do with his vining plant s. And he get s the magic of making the m grow at a mo m e n t’ s notice.

Q/Com m e n t : Is this Pisces anywh e r e in the chart? A large...

Georgia: It’s in the strong Neptu n e in the horoscop e with a strong Pisces.

It can be of ang ul ar Neptun e , it can be a Neptu n e (inaudible—so m e b o d y coughing). You know you hav e to look ...

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Q/Com m e n t : It should be a birth sign with Pisces...

Georgia: It could be a Gemini who has lots of Neptu n e . Okay? Or who has this char a c t e r . So, this is how you start to pinpoint thes e char a c t e r s bec a u s e you’ll hear history. I met a guy a couple weeks ago, a Black guy, in fact it was in Fair Oaks, astrolog er, and he was a Gemini or Scorpio or som e t hi n g, but he had a very strong Neptu n e , and he said, “You know, when I was a little boy, my mot h e r dres s e d me (he told me, this is a differe n t guy than the story I just gave you), as a little girl.” And he says, “That was the beginning of my awar e n e s s of the feminine.” It’s just incredible, when you start to work with this stuff, how you see this things app e a rin g. So, anyway, he goes off in the woods and he start s to find hims elf and he start s to fool aroun d, like I said, with the goat s, the satyrs, and he discover s wine and the ecst a s y that wine crea t e s . And, I gues s, the mad n e s s that wine crea t e s . And, very much, I hav e to say, that every type that we are going to be discus sing has it’s positive and it’s neg a tiv e side. I me a n, the neg a tiv e side of this type is that it can be a very addictive type of person ality. This type of perso n ality can be very much into alcohol. This type of person ality can be very much into drugs, very much into sex (sex is not wrong, but I me a n addict e d to sex, like sex addict s), shopping addict s. It has addictive kinds of qualities to the m. And, the other side of it, is when they, the reaso n the addiction shows up is bec a u s e their creativity is being sty mi e d. Ther e is a real conn e c tion when you get to this point in the story betw e e n the creativity of Dionysus, this god arch e t y p e , and the addictive beh avior the result. So, the mor e crea tive you beco m e , the less addictive you beco m e . Or the mor e creativ e you beco m e , the mor e you re- chan n el your addiction.

Which is the whole pre mi s e for A.A. We will be talking a little mor e about A.A. as we go on.

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Q/Com m e n t : I’d like to add som e t hi n g, too. In my chart, with Mars in the seve n t h hous e retrogr a d e , I am trap p e d , since it’s Neptun e /Pisc e s, you know...

Georgia: Oh, you have Pisces on the seve n t h ? Okay.

Q/Com m e n t : I attr a c t that kind of ma n. Men that are alcoholics, drug addicts, ...

Georgia: Or artists, musician s, ther e’s the other side, too, or pope s, or monks or nuns. You know. I me a n, wher e it is in the horosco p e , see, the very inter e s ti ng thing about this and I was really actu ally thinking about this just the last few days, it was sort of like it cam e to me like a lightning bolt, is what you could really do with a horosco p e . Even if this is not a promin e n t char a c t e r , you could look at that section of the chart, like she says the seve n t h wher e Pisces is, wher e this ecst a tic mad n e s s char a c t e r is, and really look at all the qualities about your relations hip s from this persp e c tiv e.

You know? Or if it was in the hous e of mon ey or resourc e s , you would look at all the qualities of that are a in your life from this persp e c tiv e. That’s what’s crazy about this stuff. Let me go on. Okay. Is this making sens e ?

Q/Com m e n t : You’re drawing som e comp a riso n s betw e e n the place m e n t of one’s astrology and this char a c t e r . Are you saying ther e are cert ain things that light this char a c t e r up?

Georgia: Yeah.

This char a c t e r is very much associat e d with Neptu n e .

Q/Com m e n t : So, wher e would Neptun e be in one’s chart?

Georgia: Depe n di n g on the time of day and the place they are born?

Q/Com m e n t : I me a n, wher e would it likely light this char a c t e r up in one’s, in the mix...

Georgia: Okay, I get the ques tion now. It would be promin e n tly place d. So, in other words, it would be angul ar, it would be on an angle, or it might be, say for exa m pl e, you have a sun/ mo o n, you plan e t s are squaring Neptun e .

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Yeah, so that when you look at that chart, you go, “My God, Neptun e is tied in with a lot of this stuff.”

Q/Com m e n t : So, would it have to be Neptun e with Pisces? Or it could be anything then? Wher ev er it’s promin e n t .

Georgia: Neptu n e anywh er e . It’s actu ally proba bly may b e eve n mor e Neptu n e that it is Pisces. Becau s e it’s the bigger pictur e. It’s the bigger umbr ella. And, also, since we’re coming from that ques tion right now, is wher e right now in the sky as you look at your horosco p e , is Neptun e traveling?

Is it traveling throug h the hous e of marria g e ? Is it traveling throug h the hous e of care e r ?

Q/Com m e n t : The reaso n I broug h t it up is, I have no Pisces, no plan e t s in Pisces, but yet I relat e to everyt hing she is saying bec a u s e I have Neptun e on the asc e n di n g...

Georgia: But you have a very strong Neptu n e , yes...

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah, bec a u s e I have Virgo rising, so...

Georgia: And you have Neptu n e in Virgo.

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah, and Virgo is in the first hous e, so Neptu n e rules the seve n t h hous e and Mars is ther e, and it is ang ul ar. So, I draw Neptun e in me n. I hav e no Pisces, nothing, but my children have Pisces rising and my fath er...

Georgia: It runs in your family’s, too. That is very good. You will see the thing that is really fascina ting about this stuff is if you study family horosco p e s , if you are fortun a t e to have family time s, of birth and dat e s of birth, like in our family, not everybo dy knows when they were born. But if you are fortun a t e enou g h, you can actu ally see thes e myth s that run throug h families. I me a n , ther e is an ecst a s y/ m a d n e s s myth that runs throug h families. And it com e s in all forms.

I me a n, it’s not just the alcoholis m, bec a u s e I don’t want to focus too much on just alcoholism, but it also is the mystics, the psychics, the heal er s, we will be talking mor e about that as we get mor e into the types.

Anyway, to go on with the story, so he spen t a lot of time alone.

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He spe n t a lot of time near the wat er. He spen t a lot of time in his feminin e (GEORGIA, NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID) uncons ciou s developing his crea tivity and his ma gic.

Since he wasn’t part of society, he was of his own world, his own making, he bec a m e quite wild. He bec a m e really a wild being. I me a n , really out of control. As an adult, capt ur e d by pirat e s, not that is anot h e r inter e s ti ng imag e, when you think about the ocea n and pirat e s and, you know, the mystiqu e aroun d that, and that is very muc h associat e d with this type.

The pirat e s snat c h e d him thinking he was the king’s son, the prince. He was really Dionysus, again hiding. He was in anot h e r cha m el e o n - like app e a r a n c e which is anot h e r quality about this char a c t e r . They hav e tre m e n d o u s ability to beco m e what is expe di e n t to beco m e at that mo m e n t . So, they are known to be very much cha m el e o n types. Like, they can be with one person and be one way, and be with anot h e r person and be anot h e r way. Sort of like, Sad a m Hussein, who actu ally, if I hav e time, I’ll talk about that bec a u s e actu ally he is, looking at the chart I think we have for him is that his Sun is in the 12 th hous e which is a Pisce a n place m e n t . So, anyw ay, thes e guys capt ur e him, thes e pirat e s say, “Yo, we got the Prince.” And, sudd e nly, he mak e s his magic happ e n in the middle, and that’s what he does, too, or this type, “mak e s things happ e n quite sudd e nly”—it’s not a situation wher e, Gee, it’s coming, we’re thinking about it, may b e it will chan g e , may b e we won’t. This type will actu ally creat e sudd e n chaos and sudd e n pea c e. I me a n this is like the oce a n. There are sudd e n sea stor ms and then the ocea n is quiet quite sudd e nly. So, he start s chan ging all the lines, on the sails and everyt hing, to vines and snak e s, which are very much also associ at e d ... snak e s are very much associat e d with this type. If you go back to ancien t time s, to ancien t Greec e , ther e is a the a t e r ther e called “Epidaur u s” which was a the a t e r , an ancien t the a t e r (and I’ve bee n ther e), it’s seat e d thous a n d s of peopl e, and you can stan d in the middle without a micropho n e and they could hear you at the very top. It is an incredible stadiu m. But, aroun d Epidaur u s is this aren a , which was Aeschylus who was the original physician of Greec e—h e aling. Very much healing is associ at e d with this sign. And they used snak e ther a pi e s, literally, wher e, and you’ve hear d this before, wher e one of the ther a pi e s was if you

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want e d to beco m e well, you would sleep with a snak e. I know, does n’t that sound weird? And you would be well in the morning.

Q/Com m e n t : Would the snak e bite you? Or just be...

Georgia: Some ti m e s it would. And you would go throug h ecst a s y and ma d n e s s .

Yeah.

And snak e s are very much associat e d with this type. So, you don’t have to start seeing snak e s in your life.

Scorpio, sha m a n s and sha dow s, is very much associ at e d with this type. But, if in your dre a m s , you are starting to see snak e s, this char a c t e r may be em e r gi n g in your life.

Becau s e snak e s really repr e s e n t not really fear situation, but what? Transfor m a tio n al. Taking you from one reality into anot h e r reality. Which, with their veno m, they will do that. And, in fact, ther e is very much an association.

I really should listen to this tap e again. Allen Oken is an astrolog er, who is very well known and has written a book called, “The Compl et e Astrolog er,” in Sant a Fe, New Mexico, who has a lectur e called, “Pluto, The Esoteric Ruler of Pisces.” In ancien t time s they had esot eric, which is mor e spiritual, rulers of signs. And, Pluto is the sha m a ni s tic—tr a n sfor m a ti o n, birth, dea t h and transfor m a tio n.

So that is why the snak e very appropriat ely fits in with this char a c t e r , bec a u s e , in a lot of the pictur e s of Dionysu s, if you ever look at the vas e s, he’s got snak e s aroun d his hea d.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, the snak e s go into the vines, too.

Georgia: Oh, yeah. They go into the vines. They hide. You know, spider s, wher e it is easy to hide. But he has a way when he is upse t with peopl e of chan ging things to either snak e s or ivy. Which, when you think about it, when you are coming off an alcohol binge, you see what? You get the DT’s and you see what?

Q/Com m e n t : Snak e s.

Q/Com m e n t : (ques tion re: DT’s) Georgia: Snak e s is one of the things you see. The DT’s, the

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delirium tre m e n s , have you ever hear d that?

When people are going cold turkey off alcohol or drugs, one of the things they see is snak e s. It’s not always what they see.

Q/Com m e n t : It’s a hallucination that?

Q/Com m e n t : You know, like in movies, they put the m in a tank?

They freak out bec a u s e it’s always snak e s or it’s always spider s, or som e t hi n g really cree py, and they’re all over and they can’t get away from the m. But nobody can see the m but the m.

Georgia: Yeah, which mak e s peopl e think they’re nuts. Which mak e s the m crazy and ma d. There is an old movie called, “The Snak e Pit.” I don’t know if you’ve ever see n that. I’d love to see it again, Joan Font ain e or Olivia DeHavilan d. It’s a really old, 1920’s movie. She is in an insan e asylu m and she see s snak e in a snak e pit. I me a n it is very much this char a c t e r . Okay, let’s go on with the story.

Now, the other side is that as he beco m e s an adult, he can she d his girl costu m e s and he can hold up to Hera bec a u s e he knows his ma gic. He knows how to hide. He knows to beco m e som e t hi n g that he’s not. So, she can’t fool with him any mor e .

And actu ally as he beco m e s and adult in thos e time s, as she proph e si e d, and she was right, the society worship e d him for a thous a n d year s. Becau s e the Dionysian rights and the Dionysian cults grew throug h o u t ancien t Greec e . And it was a time of the harve s t when the wine was being mad e from the grap e s that would come in the fall. And ther e is a wond erful play called, “The Bacch a e ” by Euripide s (GEORGIA, sorry ab o u t th e sp e l li n g . ) It sort of talks about this, talks about how when Dionysus is ready to call peopl e to do the wine, it’s time. And ther e are no ques tions as to whet h e r they should do it or not.

END OF SIDE A—TAPE ONE OF TWO—may be something missing here And this is also part of this char a c t e r .

There’s som e ti m e s this tranc e - like stat e about the m, like you

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are talking to the m and they are not ther e. You know?

They are ther e, but ther e’s nobody hom e. Like “Earth to Georgia,” you know? And, so they start going to the top of the moun t ai n to do this. And the husb a n d s get very angry bec a u s e the husb a n d s are saying, “Well, wait a minut e. They gott a take care of the kids and the ? and stuff.” And the stupid husb a n d’ s go after the wome n to get their wives back. And he destroy s the m.

Dionysus destroy s the husb a n d s that go after their wives. The husb a n d s that are a little bit mor e savvy that und er s t a n d that they hav e to go throug h this proce s s, leave they wives go to the top of the moun t ai n and you know, get involved in the orgy, and get involved in the wine making, and hallucinat e and go throug h ecst a s y and mad n e s s , and then they com e back and they are mor e fulfilled bec a u s e they hav e broke n throug h to other realities. And they are bett e r wives and mot h e r s when they come back. It’s true.

Which is an actu ally when an alcoholic com e s off alcohol... think about it ...and they find God, they are differe n t. Aren’t they? Have any of you ever known a refor m e d alcoholic? Or refor m e d drug addict? Have you noticed... did you know the m befor e? Did you notice a chan g e ?

Q/Com m e n t : The basic char a c t e r was the sa m e but the growing was differen t.

Georgia: Ther e’s mor e of a wisdo m, prob a bly, mor e of a knowled g e of a higher power in God, wouldn’t you say?

Q/Com m e n t : (Inaudible—Sev e r al people talking at once).

They’ve chan g e d by snuffing the m s elv e s down.

It see m s that they are mor e ready to chan g e by transfor mi n g their...

Q/Com m e n t : If they are so glad that they can choos e to be wher e they want to be inste a d of denying the other part, yeah, then they...

Q/Com m e n t : Right, then they are finding a creativ e outlet rath e r

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just repr e s si n g the urge.

Georgia: Right.

And, again, the whole the m e of God and crea tivity com e toget h e r .

You know, God, Creativity and Spiritual Quest com e s toge t h e r . Well, as the story goes on...

He’s also, you know, his mot h e r, we’ve lost his mot h e r along the road her e. Wher e did the mot h e r go? She went to the und erworld, which is wher e everybo dy went when they were dea d. And, very rarely did they come back. And, every year he would go back down to the und erworld to try to liber at e his mot h e r and try to give her som e kind of cred e n c e which symbolizes the desir e with this type to combin e body which is his mot h e r and soul which is his father. Body and spirit.

Q/Com m e n t : Did he see her blow up? Did he know it or did he just know she was never ther e.

Georgia: He didn’t see it.

He had to exp eri e n c e her being consu m e d by flame s and being take n away.

Yeah.

Althoug h he was a child, a baby, you know he wasn’t even fully develop e d. But he knows wher e she is and as soon as he can, he goes to see her every year. Which is very inter e s tin g, bec a u s e he’ll go und er the eart h for awhile. Now, this if very much what this type will do.

They don’t go und er the eart h, but they’ll go in and out.

Okay?

Like they’ll be ther e and they will be really involved in mer ging and doing what e v e r they nee d to do, and then ther e is a cert ain point, either in the day, the week, the mont h or the year, it’s kind of like, “Is anybody hom e, I’m talking to you,” that they will go away. They’ll just go away. What they are doing is, they are going inside. Which is very typically what we see with artist s or musician s, or anybody who does that kind of work, and it’s the psychological proce s s of the crea tive proce s s.

You have what—incu b a tion, then inspiration. And what he would do when he would leave the und erworld bec a u s e he couldn’t really liber at e his mot h e r and he was very sad, he would leave one of his faces behind. His face, rem e m b e r , we see thes e a lot,

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which is really inter e s tin g.

You know the come d y/ t r a g e d y mask s? You see in the last couple of year s all thos e ma sk s, like Pet er Roe (GEORGIA, NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID) mask s that they are selling for your walls and everyt hing? Well, it is very inter e s ti ng bec a u s e the last few years, Neptun e , or this char a c t e r has bee n very promin e n t in the sky. Ther e is a lot of stuff going on on this plan e t and ther e is the whole asp e c t of com e d y and trag e d y, sadn e s s and hap pin e s s.

So, when he leave s the und er world, he leave s his mask or sadn e s s with his mot h e r, and when he com e s back to the overworld, or the world, and he puts his ma sk of happin e s s and wild aba n d o n on. So, ther e’s thes e two sides. And this char a c t e r has that.

It’s like the clown who is laughing on the outside and crying on the inside. This char a c t e r very much has the ability to be loving and to enjoy life but to be coming from a very strong sadn e s s , or sep ar a tio n on the inside.

And, I don’t know if any of you can relat e to that, esp e ci ally with the strong Neptun e s in horosco p e s , ther e’s this two people, that either you think it’s gone away but it never really goes away, and they say that Pisces or this type really, every time he cries, he cries bec a u s e ther e is sorrow in the world. And ther e is a whole quality about this type wher e they have a hook into all that is aroun d the m.

There is this whole mer ging asp e c t with all that is aroun d the m, which is one of their gre a t e s t stren g t h s , I think. And, it is also one of their gre a t e s t weakn e s s e s . Becau s e one of the difficulties with this type, it does not really know when to sep ar a t e , which brings up the whole issue of code p e n d e n t type relations hip s, which brings me to the next point. This type’s purpos e, if you want to look at a purpos e for this type, is to proce s s all that has come befor e the m that is neg a tiv e throug h the m or throug h their knowledg e or their informa tion so that it can com e

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out positive and new. And I always say this every time I talk about Pisces, the toxic wast e man a g e m e n t type.

Which, they are doing all the time whet h e r their life is succ e s sful or not. The differen c e betw e e n their life being succe s sf ul, what ev e r succ e s s is, and not being so succ e s sful is the inability to det a c h. As soon as they get that they can be this conduit type and they can proce s s this informa tion throug h the m without getting too att a c h e d to it, that’s when it is a lot easier and they have mor e succe s s in their life.

When they find the m s el v e s always hooking in, is when they have real proble m s . And this is why you see a lot of thes e people that are in the work of healing, who actu ally do han d s - on work, or just healing by talking to people.

People leave, they feel gre a t. This type has the sorrow that stays with the m. And they have to really learn to proce s s that throug h, go into their und erworld, clean it out, and leave the tragic ma sk behind, and com e out and put the new mask on. So, not to be att a c h e d . So, when you are dealing with this type, no mat t e r how well you think you know the m, you don’t know the m.

Q/Com m e n t : You know what they will let you see.

Georgia: That’s right. And they are not even saying in their minds, really, that “I’m going to let you see this and I’m not going to let you see that.” Ther e is a part of the m, see this type out of all the types, this is literally what I would call spirit incarn a t e , and most of the time they don’t pay att e n tion to their bodies. I nee d to say that, too. Becau s e the body, you know, if they were mor e of a Taurus type, they’d go, you know, “Oh, yeah, body, eat, food.” But, this type is what I would call Spirit incarn a t e . They don’t really pay muc h att e n tion to their body which oftenti m e s a proble m with health as they get older, bec a u s e they are not ther e. You know. I me a n they are her e, but they are not ther e. They are som e pl a c e else. They are always som e pl a c e else. And,

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as well as you may think you know this particular type of perso n ality, even if you are the one that we are talking about, ther e is a part of yours elf you don’t even know. Or part that the other perso n, even if you are really close to the m, will never show. Would you guys say if you know anybody like this?

Q/Com m e n t : Absolut ely. Myself. I leave my body all the time ( (GEORGIA, NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT SHE SAID) .

Georgia: Yeah, they go in and out a lot. And, actu ally, som e ti m e s they are mor e lucid in the uncon scious stat e than they are in the conscious stat e. It’s a terrible thing to say.

Or, not the uncon scious stat e, bec a u s e that sound s like, you know, you’re on a drunk and you are pass e d out.

But, the other conscious n e s s stat e, like the stat e of medit a tion.

Okay.

In the stat e of hypnot h e r a p y .

Drea m s . I me a n, this is the type of perso n ality that has vivid dre a m s . Or that has thes e flash e s as they walk throug h the day. Sudd e nly, som e t hi n g will go “boo m” and they will hav e this inst an t instinct about som e t hi n g that’s hap p e ni n g in the world and they just know.

Ther e is a real knowingn e s s about this type.

Precog nitive. This type is very preco g nitive. This is the type that will know that they should call you. And then you call the m.

Q/Com m e n t : Drea m s give me informa tion all the time.

Georgia: All the time!?

Q/Com m e n t : About things people don’t want me to know.

Georgia: All the time, huh?

Q/Com m e n t : And, I don’t even want to know som e ti m e , but it come s in a dre a m and I can’t avoid it.

Georgia: Which is a very good com m e n t bec a u s e this is part of the difficulty of being this type.

Even thoug h you are very det a c h e d , you are also part of all that is aroun d you. So, it is very hard to discrimin a t e as to what is you and what is som e o n e else.

That’s why it’s very import a n t if you hav e children like this, or you yours elf,

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even if you are an adult, to really learn the whole test of discrimin a tion at a young age, to teac h a child, you know, not discrimin a tion like, you know, color discrimin a tion, but discrimin a tion betw e e n som e b o d y who is sucking your ener gy and som e b o d y who is not.

This is literally what we call the type, a psychic spong e.

That when they are with som e o n e that is happy go lucky, they will leave feeling really good and hap py -go - lucky. Becau s e the way they relat e to the other perso n is they are talking to the m and sudd e nly the person is talking and they are listening, but the person s talking, and ther e are pictur e s that are coming to this type’s mind.

And thos e pictur e s, you know, bec a u s e they have a real vivid imagin a tion and they start getting into this perso n’s body and soul with thos e pictur e s and if they are happy -go - lucky type, then they’ll feel that way when the leave. But, if they are dealing with som e b o d y who is extr e m e ly depr e s s e d or who is very ill, or who really has got a bad handl e on som e t hi n g, they’ll start to see thos e pictur e s get into their soul and their body and beco m e that, and walk away feeling quite ill.

Q/Com m e n t : It’s like you can’t, at som e points, you GEORGIA— she may have said, can’t tell your ener gy from the other person’s ener gy...

Georgia: You can’t tell. You don’t know what is you versus what are they. And, in a lot of ways, I think that is a lot of what Dionysus was about. He was involved in the wine.

He was involved in ... He was part of his Univers e. I me a n, he didn’t have other peopl e that he relat e d to.

He relat e d to all of the Univers e when he was growing up. So, that the particles of dust on the eart h and the birds in the tree s, they were all part of him. And, that’s why he develop e d his magic as he bec a m e adult and got rath e r good at it, actu ally, got pretty tricky at it after awhile.

But, I always feel sorry for Dionysus

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bec a u s e I always feel he is a very lonely char a c t e r .

Becau s e he knows so much mor e.

He has Divine Wisdo m and not the other people aroun d him know as much, so he is always one step ahe a d of the m. And, I think that this type really has that kind of experie n c e in their life. They are always sort of one step ahe a d of everybo dy else. They know things are coming. They’ve bee n ther e and even if they hav e n’t exp eri e n c e d it in this life, ther e is such a strong, (if you believe in past lives, I don’t ram that down peopl e’s throa t s, but I do believe that ener gy does n’t die and I believe we’ve come aroun d alot and that ener gy does n’t die. I don’t really believe in going back and saying that I was Cleopa t r a or Patrick Henry in a past life, bec a u s e everybo dy was a Cleopa t r a in a past life, you know. But I do feel that the ener gy com e s back.) And this type, I think out of all the types, has the most cap a bility of hooking into that Univers al conscious n e s s that has that me m o r y. And, in fact if you look at the horosco p e, the twelfth hous e of the horosco p e , which is the last hous e befor e the rising wher e you are born, is the Pisces hous e, I call the toxic wast e ma n a g e m e n t pha s e of the hous e, of the chart. But it is suppos e dly, in som e of the theories, wher e the past life me m o r y is stor e d. Wher e all the experie n c e that has com e befor e this life is stor e d. So, this is very much associ at e d with that type.

When this type em er g e s , the spirit of the wild being is relea s e d and you can swing from wild pand e m o ni u m and noise m a ki n g into dea t hly silenc e or depr e s sion.

Now, depr e s sion is also an illness.

It is very much associat e d with this type.

Now, ther e is healt hy depr e s sion bec a u s e every artist who is an artist knows that you are always depr e s s e d before you creat e som e t hi n g. I me a n, anybo dy aroun d her e paint ever in their life? Or do music or anyt hing? You know, right befor e you crea t e som e t hi n g, how you sort of, ther e is

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this quiet, you know, right befor e you do your yard, or gard e n... Do you know what I’m talking about?

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, I don’t do it for landsc a pi n g but I know what...

Georgia: You know what I’m talking about thoug h. It’s this kind of calm befor e the stor m.

Q/Com m e n t : I never really do anyt hing unless I have a depr e s s e d ...

Georgia: You never really do anyt hing until you are first depr e s s e d .

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah, bec a u s e otherwis e I’m busy doing other things...

Georgia: Yeah, and usually depr e s sion very much acco m p a ni e s this type and depr e s sion oftenti m e s prec e d e s their mas sive crea tivity bec a u s e this is the type that is extr e m el y creativ e.

I’d say proba bly out of all the types, this is proba bly the most able to creat e bec a u s e this type is the most able to hit other realities that nobody else see s. Even when they are sober. You know. Thes e are the ones that really see God. Thes e are the ones that really have visions. Thes e are the ones that really see their guides, if you believe that ther e is such a thing as guides. Thes e are the children who when they are really little they are seeing colors aroun d other peopl e. We hav e sever al children, but my step d a u g h t e r , when she was little, lived with us. And, I rem e m b e r , it was very bizarr e bec a u s e I had never had any children, and I always collect e d articles. I still do. I have tons of newsp a p e r articles. And I rem e m b e r when she was first living with us, she was about six, she cam e hom e one day.

Now this is a child with a strong Neptu n e , Capricorn, but with a strong Neptu n e . And she says, “I’m really upse t .”

She had bee n really depr e s s e d for days and wasn’t talking about it. I said, “What’s wrong with you?” I me a n , she wasn’t nor m ally this type of kid. She says, “Well, I’m afraid to tell you bec a u s e if I tell you, you are going to think that I’m

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being weird.” I said, “Well, tell me, tell me.” She says, “Well, every time I go to school, I see colors aroun d all the kids. And, I don’t want to tell anybo dy bec a u s e they are going to tell me that I’m crazy.” And I was so excite d when I hear d that bec a u s e I had just happ e n e d to cut out an article from a newsp a p e r two weeks before in the Contr a Costa Times of a presc h ool teac h e r who had drawings the kids from the presc h ool had mad e of aur a s that they were seeing aroun d kids. And, then the whole article was bas e d on the pre mi s e that kids hit seve n or eight and the grownu p s say, “Oh, it’s not possible.”

Reality com e s in. And they are off and running. And, I said, “Wait a minut e. This is not crazy.”

So I ran over ther e and I showe d her the book. Oh, my God, the relief.

Oh, she was so relieve d, and I rem e m b e r she took a bath, which I thoug h t was really inter e s ti ng, right after that, which is very much associat e d with wat er, you know.

And, she was so excite d, now of cours e she is a Capricorn and she is very practical. So, the next day she goes to school and she start e d charging the kids a dime a piece to see their colors. This is a true story. And, in fact, she is 17 now and I had brunch with her a couple weeks ago in Sacr a m e n t o and her fath er and I told her this story and she couldn’t rem e m b e r it. Isn’t that inter e s tin g? She couldn’t rem e m b e r the story. It was only 17 minus 6, year s ago...wh a t is that?

Q/Com m e n t : So, does she see colors now?

Georgia: No, but she is very much into Tarot and she has lots of drea m s , you know, in fact, I wish she was a little older, and educ a t e d , bec a u s e I’d have her work with me.

Becau s e she is very, very wise. And she has allowed precog nition and everyt hing. But that is really a true story and this is what this type of kid will do. This is the type of kid when they are growing up, in school, the teac h e r will say, “This kid’s a daydr e a m e r . ” Do you

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rem e m b e r that? Which is really unfortu n a t e . Beca u s e that daydr e a mi n g is very import a n t to their whole ess e n c e bec a u s e that is the key to their creativity and the nee d to be with God. I me a n it’s their whole desir e to be with God and to creat e .

Q/Com m e n t : Can this Neptun e be anywh er e ? Becau s e now you are explaining one of my sons and it’s not the one whos e birthd a y is in Pisces. He’s a Virgo Georgia: Oh, yeah, it does n’t hav e to be Pisces. He could be a Virgo and be a very strong Neptun e . See, you don’t have to be a Pisces to be this type. You could be a Capricorn and be this type.

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, okay, bec a u s e at dinner ti m e , when he used to have a moust a c h e , a long time ago, and he would tell us that he use d to live som e w h e r e else. And we’d just go, Okay, yeah, what else? what else? And that he see s what he calls witch e s, but they are not witche s bec a u s e when he draws the m they are not witche s, but it flew into his room, and the only thing he knew that flies is a witch.

Georgia: Inter e s tin g, inter e s tin g. Oh, wow, so that is how he relat e d to it.

Q/Com m e n t : Yes. But he get s very depr e s s e d . He get s real down.

Georgia: But then he hopefully com e s out.

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, yeah.

Georgia: Yeah. See, and when we talk about the depr e s sion we really nee d to qualify that bec a u s e ther e is depr e s sion and ther e is depr e s sion. And this type can have both types.

This type can have the crea tiv e type, pre - creation depr e s sion, which just lasts for a little bit of time, may actu ally last may b e even up to a couple of mont h s, but this type can also have the kind of depr e s sion that lasts a whole lifetime.

Q/Com m e n t : Now, this is what he calls “quiet time.”

Georgia: Yeah. It’s quiet time and they really nee d that. But

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ther e is the other asp e c t of depr e s sion that is very promin e n t in this type wher e they, what they are finding out now. Which is quite inter e s ti n g, in the last few years they have gott e n mor e inform a tion on depr e s sion, and Neptu n e is promin e n t in the sky, right?

Wher e peopl e actu ally have it in families. They are finding ther e is a gen e tic depr e s sion. And you know thos e families hav e strong Neptun e s .

In fact, the ther a pi st we worked with was, who does, you know, you go in for ther a p y, and they get a backgro u n d on you— som e ti m e s hav e you fill out a she e t .

They are discov ering now that if ther e is alcoholis m in the family, even if the person the m s elv e s does not drink, that this is prob a bly and indicat or to ma nic - depr e s sion.

And that, in fact, the peopl e that drink are victims of depr e s sion, which is rectified by che mic als now, they have imipra mi n e, now they hav e this wond erful new Prozac, which is wond erful. It is the best. Imipra mi n e raise s the blood pres s ur e , but the Prozac is a very good anti - depr e s s a n t .

And, ther e is the other kind of depr e s sion which we are seeing a grea t deal of, esp e ci ally in the last few weeks, according to a lot of my differe n t client s. Manics. The ma nic -depr e s siv e s are the ones that are on lithium that will see God quite sudd e nly, you know, and be flying high and go charg e $5,00 0 or $6,00 0 worth of monies on their credits cards and then forget. I me a n , thes e are the peopl e that have to stay on lithium, which is very inter e s ti n g, which is a salt. Salt and sea wat er is very much associ at e d with this type. Becau s e of Neptun e , the ocea n, salts and sea wat er s. And what I found, in the last, since Febru ary 6 th of 1991, clients down her e who are psychiatric ward types, have bee n saying ther e is hug e influx of ma nics in the last 30 days. I me a n, sudd e nly, eve n thoug h they are on their lithium, they are flying off to ... out to lunch.

I was in Fair Oaks a couple weeks lecturing. A lady in a

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psychiatric ward said the sa m e thing. In the last 30 days, the manics hav e just gone off the dee p end. They are having to yank the m in with Haldol to bring the m back down to eart h. I me a n , which is very inter e s tin g.

Becau s e in this next couple of year s, what’s happ e ni n g in the sky, ther e is a line - up of two plan e t s occurring that happ e n s once every 180 years. One of the m is Neptu n e which is depr e s sio n, ecst a s y and mad n e s s . And it is getting closer and closer and closer to Uranus, which is explosive kinds of beh avior. So, we are seeing mor e and mor e of this kind of beh a vior.

People who are splitting their reality, who are, in fact. I don’t know how ma ny of you have hear d my forec a s t talk at Unity. We talked about. Sherry broug h t it up.

The Spiritual Emer g e n c y Book. Well, I was saying in my forec a s t talk in January that I felt that in the next couple of years that we are going to be seeing mor e and mor e people actu ally sudd e nly seeing other worlds while they are in their conscious stat e.

Like walking down the stre e t , sudd e nly starting to see other realities, and that we are going to see mor e of that, and peopl e are going to think that they are crazy. And Sherry Culver, the minist er at Unity, was talking about a book that just cam e out of Cana d a .

Q/Com m e n t : I can’t find it.

Georgia: has it in Fair Oaks. Book People might have it in Berkeley. It’s called Spiritual Emerg e n c y, which is a perfect, perfect book. It is out of Cana d a . It is written by ther a pi st s, for ther a pi st s, and a lot of ther a pist s are having training with this syst e m and basically, what this is doing, is it is teac hing the m to define the differe nc e betw e e n peopl e that are really mad and people that are actu ally having spiritu al break t h r o u g h s . Which is what this char a c t e r is about. This char a c t e r is really about either being really mad, or having spiritual break t h r o u g h s .

And it helps define the differe nc e

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betw e e n thos e two types.

Q/Com m e n t : Do you know the author?

Georgia: I don’t know the aut hor. But the book is white. I know that. This is how I pick books. It’s white. And it’s called Spiritual Emer g e n c y. It’s out of Cana d a . I know that my friend, Sam Keaton of Cheshir e Rose Book Store in Fair Oaks, California, has it on his shelf.

I wouldn’t be surprise d if you called Book People in Berkeley that you could get it or if you could go into the book stor e, they could order it for you. It might be that they are just out of stock bec a u s e it is so hot.

Q/Com m e n t : When does that conjunct, or...

Georgia: In ‘9.. well, we are feeling it now. It’s ‘91- ‘92. It’s official in 1993. But, we are feeling it now.

Q/Com m e n t : Inter e s tin g. Becau s e I rem e m b e r I was watching a Nostr ad a m u s speci al and suppos e dly, I me a n, stuff hap p e n s in 1993...

Georgia: Yeah, well that’s the... and in fact, if you look at this historically, the combin a tion of thes e two plan e t s, when it happ e n s every 180 years, it is really a mystical, spiritual renaiss a n c e . Which is really very appro pri at e looking at this type.

I me a n, the spiritual break t h r o u g h s . Okay. So, to go on to say that ther e is a relations hip betw e e n spiritual ques t and addiction and ther efor e, we call this type ecst a s y and mad n e s s , like the Don Quixot e. Comm e n t I’ll mak e and then I’ll give you a bre ak.

“The illusory are the worldly drea m y visionary.” This is a type that is associ at e d with the third eye, if you are all familiar with the chakr a syst e m .

The third eye is very much associ at e d with visionarie s.

Neptu n e . Isn’t this the pituit ary. No, the pine al. This is the pine al gland. And, you can kind of tell thes e type s bec a u s e thes e types are the ones that are always talking about the futur e. Third eye type s are always talking about the futur e, how it’s going to be. How wond erful it’s going to be, or how bad it’s going to be.

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Or what they are going to be doing. They are always looking affront. They are not nec e s s a rily looking her e.

Okay? When we get into Sag e s, Woe and Wisdo m, they are dealing with her e and now, with concr e t e reality.

But thes e types are always out in front. And they are in their hea d s and they are out of their bodies a lot. In fact, this is dysfunction al and ther e are som e dise a s e s that are associ at e d with that. I think one of the m is called Cushing’s Disea s e . Wher e the body take s on, if it’s a woma n, a ma sc uline form. Have you ever hear d of that? It is a very rare dise a s e when the mal e gets kind out of whack. Anyway. Care er possibilities for this type: Healer s, people who work with liquids, wat er, che mic al s, herb al rem e di e s and teas.

Oils, paint, petroleu m , environ m e n t al cleaning up, you know, taking the toxic wast e man a g e m e n t and regrou ping it.

Hospit als, prisons, prison refor m, prison er s. Masse u s e s , actors, danc e r s, musician s, artists, hypnot h e r a pi s t s, drea m e r s . Einstein was one of thes e type s. Physicists.

Scientist s are som e ti m e s associat e d with this type.

Only this type of perso n ality would conc eive of a grea t e r cos mic patt e r n wher e spac e is curve d. I me a n , Einst ein figure d out that spac e is round. I me a n , that is this type. Really out ther e, you know. I me a n , you wouldn’t be seeing that with a mor e prag m a t i c type. Like the Woe and Wisdo m group, the sag e s. Kings and Quee n s proba bly wouldn’t do that. They’ll hire thes e peopl e to work for the m so that they can cultivat e their own doing. Anyway, take a bre ak.

Would you say that again for the tap e?

(GEORGIA—th e follo w i n g con v e r s a t i o n s w er e hard e r to he ar as th e micro p h o n e wa s rec or d i n g “gr o u p con v e r s a t i o n ” so , if you ne e d to list e n to th e tap e , it is very ne ar th e en d of sid e B of Tap e 1).

Q/Com m e n t : We do brain gym exercis e s. It is kinesiology. It’s an integr a tion of the right and left brain. And, Paul

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Dennison out of Oaklan d has a school called Educa t e ( Geor gi a— s p e c i a l way to sp e l l it, but per s o n not sur e of it—I sp e l l e d it th e “re g u l a r way . ) Well, anyw ay, I got certified out of a guy up in Washingt o n.

His na m e is Wayne Topping. And California does n’t recognize the certification bec a u s e of Paul Dennison so I am doing it all over again. And I want to work with pre - tee n s. Wher e their ener gy com e s up and all of a sudd e n they don’t know what to do with it. But it is Georgia: Well, see, I think that the right -left brain work is very much associ at e d with this type. Becau s e they do go back and forth betw e e n thos e two worlds. And I think we’ll be seeing mor e and mor e of that as a valid ther a p y or a valid way to work with people’s minds to get their crea tivity harn e s s e d in the next few year s for sure.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, see, that’s why I’m trying to hook up to it now bec a u s e I’ve got a child now that the school syst e m is not helping. He is in what they call the resour c e s . But, resourc e s does n’t work for him.

Georgia: I know what that is. We went throug h one kid with that, too. Yeah.

Q/Com m e n t : That does n’t work for him, so I am trying alter n a tiv e met h o d s for him. And, actu ally...

Georgia: Do they work bett e r? (GEORGIA, NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID) Q/Com m e n t : Well, they are. And the school is going, “Oh, you have a differe n t child who is working with the classroo m...” And they actu ally think it is bec a u s e he has finally slowed down and he is coop er a ti n g. No. Q/Com m e n t : (Laught e r ) He’s never going to cooper a t e with anybody. He’s not a proble m child.

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah, and then he does n’t tell anybo dy about the ston e s in his pocket s. So, I figure I bett e r keep him (inaudible)...

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah. He has a secr e t life.

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Q/Com m e n t : So, this might be him.

Georgia: Well, as soon as you look at the chart you’ll see it. I me a n, if I were to actu ally look at it from, well, if you have it when you are aroun d, you could bring it and I could just do a quick look and just tell you.

Q/Com m e n t : See, that’s why I want e d to get this book also. The Spiritual Emer g e n c y?

Becau s e I’ve alre a d y told my kids, “What ev e r you see, believe it. You saw it.” Don’t deny that you don’t see what you think you just saw.

And, if you are in doubt, ask.

Georgia: Exactly. Beca u s e they are going to be seeing lots of stuff.

Q/Com m e n t : That’s inter e s ti n g bec a u s e my son’s a Virgo and he has see n things since childhood. He has Pisces rising.

Georgia: Oh, well, ther e you go.

Q/Com m e n t : Unlike my son who is a Virgo...

Georgia: He has Sag rising?

Q/Com m e n t : No, I don’t know.

Q/Com m e n t : You know, you could go right in her e to Dolphin’s Drea m (?) and look at an astrology book, look in the back and see what his plan e t s are, do you know the time of birth?

Q/Com m e n t : 1:10 in the after noo n. August 31 st .

Georgia: So, he’s a Virgo, he’s prob a bly a Capricorn on the asc e n d a n t . How old is he?

Q/Com m e n t : 11- 1/2. 1979.

Georgia: Okay. So he has Neptu n e and Sagitt arius, Cap... Okay.

He prob a bly has Neptu n e bec a u s e I know Neptu n e was leaving Sag and going into Capricorn in the early ‘80s.

It was leaving Sag... it’s right aroun d his asce n d e n t . Or in his twelfth hous e, which is his hom e.

So, it’s proba bly.

I know he’s Neptun e and Sag. And Sagitt arius/Ne p t u n e is actu ally what we will be talking...

We’ll be talking at the end of the session about the gen er a tio n al groups, about how they exp eri e n c e this.

The group that had Neptun e ( -- to o far fro m

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micro p h o n e ) and the group that had Neptun e / Scor pio.

Q/Com m e n t : I can’t wait for your book.

Georgia: Well, neith er can I. (GEORGIA back to re g ul ar lect ur e her e ) Georgia:

...right now, Scorpio, esp e ci ally Scorpio risings mak e very, very sensitive teac h e r s.

Some of the finest teac h e r s you may have ever had may hav e had Scorpio rising. They also mak e very nurturing teac h e r s, too. In fact, one of the are a s that they are most nurturing for Scorpios is in the are a of teac hin g other s. And they learn best when they are nurtur e d in the proce s s of learning.

You know, you could have the gre a t e s t teac h e r in the world, but if they don’t nurtur e you, a Scorpio person may not get it. Rem e m b e r the teac h e r s you had in school? The ones you learn e d from and the ones you didn’t? The ones you prob a bly learn e d from were the ones that had that hear t or that feeling side.

The ones that were very good but were very dist a n t, you prob a bly didn’t learn as much from. This would also sugg e s t that ther e is a tre m e n d o u s ... this is what we were talking about a little earlier... ther e is a tre m e n d o u s psychic emotion al deat h her e, too. When you believe in som e t hi n g it has to hit you on all 9,000 burn er s. You know? It has to hit you really at a soul level. You have to really feel like it’s totally part of you.

And in fact, you philosophy, what you believe in, what you try to convey to other peopl e, may be very nurturing to other peopl e. Does that mak e sens e ?

Q/Com m e n t : Yes. Georgia: Okay. Numb e r ten. This is fun.

Q/Com m e n t : I have a que stion about the Cancer... Does that me a n that they hav e END OF TAPE ONE / START TAPE TWO OF TWO Georgia: ... qualified bec a u s e she was not spiritu ally ready.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay. Right. See, that’s what I think.

Georgia: She was not spiritu ally ready.

That’s why she was

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consu m e d by the flame s. If she had bee n spiritually ready she wouldn’t have bee n consu m e d by flame s, but she wasn’t spiritually ready.

Q/Com m e n t : So, I think that’s in the hear t of this depr e s sion that is the transfor m a ti on in the dea t h that brings about the new.

Georgia: Which is like a spiritual rebirth. I me a n , they hav e to go throug h that to be rebor n, which will oftenti m e s , if you look at their lives, this type of perso n ality’s life, they’ve gone throug h a lot of spiritual rebirths.

Q/Com m e n t : And som e proba bly pits and start s, I me a n, som e proba bly false rebirths...

Georgia: Exactly.

Q/Com m e n t : I me a n, it see m s like this type is prone to mist ak e.

Georgia: This type is pron e to mist ak e bec a u s e ther e is a hu m a n quality and if you rem e m b e r in the very beginning of the story of Dionysu s we talked about “He who is twice born.” Okay? Now he is first born and he is put in his fath er’s thigh, which is the sea t of Divine Wisdo m. Then he grows to be a full - fledg e d full sized baby and then he is god. But he is twice born. It’s like reborn. It is very much like Christian. When you think of Christianity or Christian thinking. You find Christ or you are baptize d.

The whole sacr a m e n t of baptis m is very much associat e d with this type bec a u s e you are born and you basically have Divine Wisdo m bec a u s e every soul has Divine Wisdo m. But, they you are baptize d which brings you closer to God and suppos e dly mak e s you mor e spiritually ready to see God. And the reaso n that Steve n, it was a very good ques tion and com m e n t he mad e was, you know, why would she, Sem el e, Dionysus’ mot h e r, be consu m e d by flam e s when she see s him as a god? Beca u s e she wasn’t spiritually ready. And my sens e of what happ e n s with this type, hopefully, as they have a chronological history, they get a little older and they learn som e t hi n g, that they may not be as pron e to

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as ma ny mist ak e s .

I don’t think that anyon e ever reac h e s total perfection. When you get to that point, I gue s s you’re God, but to learn som e t hi n g from the errors and mist ak e s . And, ther e’s kind of a joke. It’s not really a joke, but it’s a joke. And, it’s sort of like aroun d Pisces type s, or this type, you know, that fish is very much associat e d .

We are going to talk about dolphins and fish next. Fish are very much associ at e d with this type. Basically this type is born and they beco m e one of thre e type s of fish in their lifetime.

Either little fish in the oce a n that never grow up and get eat e n up by bigger fish. Or sharks that are const a n tly consu mi n g other s. Or, hopefully, the best of the bunch might be dolphins that sharks don’t fool aroun d with, that don’t both er anybo dy, that are peac eful, and that suppos e dly take me s s a g e s to the sailors. You know, which take s us kind of into the next story. How many of you as you go driving aroun d neighbor ho o d s, at least this used to be mor e so in the old days, not so much now. I know back in Chicago they have thes e older hom e s and every bo dy always had thes e fount ain s in their yards, som e of which were pret ty gross. But, how many rem e m b e r fount ains or imag e s of a boy on a dolphin? Did anybo dy ever, in fact, see that old movie with Sophia Loren, “The Boy on a Dolphin?”

Q/Com m e n t : I saw the movie... sound track. It sound s familiar but...

Georgia: Well, it’s basically Pliny’s story. It’s the story of the boy and the dolphin. This is anot h e r myth or story that is associat e d with this type. I’ll just read you the story, it’s short, and then we’ll talk about it. “ Ther e as little boy who was proba bly an orph a n (Ge or g i a co m m e n t s : ‘whic h is very int er e s t i n g be c a u s e Dion y s u s wa s sort of orp h a n , to o’ ) who would com e to the sea s h or e each day to feed his friend the dolphin and get a ride on his back. One day the little boy did not show up and the dolphin went to look for his friend and found him drown e d. He carried

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him to shor e and he lay ther e on the shor e to die with him.

They went to the afterlife toge t h e r and helpe d dep ar t e d souls get to that world. In this life, this perso n ality or type see m s to perfor m the sa m e function for other s.”

Does that mak e sens e ? Okay. The sa m e function of helping people get to the other world, to the afterlife, which is, when we saying befor e the bre ak, we were talking about, you know, heal er s, etc., or reha bilitat e d alcoholics, you know, who are men t or s for the alcoholics that are in A.A., they have bee n ther e. Dionysus, half of the year, goes down to retriev e his mot h e r from Hell or from the und er world, he’s bee n ther e.

Okay? Thes e peopl e, or this type, will, and it’s a terrible thing to say this bec a u s e I really believe we have Free Will, but I really think that this type does suffer. I think that this is the type that suffers in the light. And I think that suffering is part of the bigger plan, bec a u s e the suffering teac h e s the m how to help other s move throug h it. And it is what I always tell my clients, you know, a client com e s in and they are going throug h a very heavy time in their life, usu ally they don’t com e to see me when they are going throug h good time s, they com e to see me in their bad time s. It’s like I have a girlfriend who is a very good astrology, who is now up in Mendocino, who always got the good ones. I me a n, she always got thes e , you know, peopl e who are finding the m s elv e s, and are into their crea tive work, and you know, they are just freeing the m s elv e s of a heavy burd e n. She is very Jupiter, you know? And I always get thes e really heavy clients, you know? Going throug h the dreg s. I me a n, it’s like, give me a bre ak! It’s really true. But, when I explain to thes e peopl e, of which ther e are many, you know it’s proba bly going to hap p e n . And it’s so funny when they come back about a year or so later, saying, “You know what you said was true.” You are going to go throug h this. And, just as you finish with this. Some o n e’ s going to come along and you’re going to help the m go throug h theirs. See, this is very much, I don’t want to say a men t or, but a guide. Okay? A guide type person ality. This is why again, if we don’t look at the discrimin a tion factor her e, that they can get the m s elv e s into a lot of trouble bec a u s e , and this is the other part of it, and this is very facetious but it is true, this is the type that will hook up with som e b o d y bec a u s e they love their soul and they see their

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pure soul, but what they fail to look at, okay, is the fact that this person has bee n in jail for 20 years, killed 15 people, robb e d and mai m e d ...

Q/Com m e n t : But they are good inside...

Georgia: But they are good inside. They hav e what we call a saving grac e, you know. This is the thing we nee d to really look at with this type bec a u s e they will do this. I me a n, this is the classic. I don’t know if I want to say co - dep e n d e n c e . I’d say thes e are the classic ena bl er s.

Co -dep e n d e n t is mor e canc er, cos mic mot h e r orient e d , you know. But they are the classic ena bl er s, you know.

“Oh, but their soul is so pur e. Nobody und er s t a n d s the m.” Okay. And they’ll go throug h the suffering and they’ll kee p going and, like you say, they are pron e to making mist ak e s. Now, som e people never get out of this asp e c t , being this type. They’ll go to their grav e helping out peopl e who aren’t going to help the m s el v e s ? When they get spiritual, this whole thing... when they have that spiritual mat urity that com e s about, or spiritual awar e n e s s , or spiritual develop m e n t , is when they finally are able to say, “Oh, wait a minut e.

I can guide this person and only give the m so much, but then I have to det a c h.”

So, what will ma ny time s hap p e n with this type as they get older and older, they will isolat e the m s el v e s mor e and mor e. They’re not going to go off and be nuns and monks, but thes e are the type s that as they get older they may move to a very dist a n t place, an isolat e d country hous e, not be aroun d ma ny peopl e, or in the woods wher e all the ivy is growing and the groun d cover and the wine, you know, and may b e even have a viney ar d or two and snak e s, you know, and be happy as clams. Or by the sea sid e.

This is classically what they may do bec a u s e their life is... and what happ e n s when they mov e to this isolat e d place, they will still be helping people, but it will be a differe n t proce s s.

Does anybo dy recog nize that in

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the m s el v e s ?

Any of thes e qualities or char a c t e r s ?

Becau s e it is the purpos e of this type to help other s transfor m their real m s bec a u s e they are the only ones that can get to thos e real ms. One com m e n t I will mak e about this type, too... usu ally in the family ther e will be mad n e s s , other than alcoholism and depr e s sion, ther e may be ma d n e s s in the family. Ther e may be a crazy aunt, or a crazy uncle. Do you have one of thos e in your family? Oh, okay, bec a u s e som e ti m e s see that in thes e families is they will have this craze d person that would be so startling to the rest of the family me m b e r s that it would be const a n tly disruptive when they are growing up, but that’s the asp e c t of this arch e t y p e of Dionysus, or ecst a s y and ma d n e s s , is that things can be very silent and the phon e isn’t ringing and sudd e nly, chaos, wher e the person calls up creatin g chaos throug h o u t the whole family making the m beco m e mor e awar e of other real ms. Becau s e that is part of him too, he’s pan d e m o ni u m . In fact, the word pan d e m o ni u m come s from the god Pand who Dionysus was fooling aroun d with when he’s a tee n a g e r in the field of the goat s and the satyrs and the wine—pa n d e m o ni u m . Pand e m o ni u m and then total silenc e. How ma ny of you who are this type or know of this type kind of, when things are really, really quiet, you know the saying, “Calm befor e the stor m” kind of sens e that som e t hi n g is coming. It’s just too quiet. That’s what this life is patt e r n e d with. Those mo m e n t s of quiet and then SUDDEN noise m a ki n g and chaos. Lots of fun, isn’t it?

Q/Com m e n t : It’s see m s like also in this story, this myt hology, ther e are various cat alyst s that bring about various differe n t chan g e s and eve n the nurs e is a cat alyst.

Ther e are a lot of cat alyst s to instiga t e chan g e .

Georgia: A lot of sign post s in the road that instigat e chan g e .

Q/Com m e n t : So, it would see m that som e o n e fitting this type should want to cat alyst, to try to cultivat e

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Georgia:

the m, like may b e cultivating the wine, or cultivating the cat alyst.

That’s very astu t e ... and that’s one of the reaso n s I gave you that list of symbols bec a u s e this group is proba bly mor e than anot h e r group the type of child that will collect things. You know, like sea shells. They may have a real ma ni a for sea shells.

Or rocks.

Or everyt hing. And som e t hi n g me a n s som e t hi n g to the m.

It may me a n nothing to their par e n t s, but it really me a n s som e t hi n g to the m. And so, the thing to be awar e of are the specific symbols that are associ at e d with this type that are on that list. Now if you start seeing a lot of thes e showing up in your life or in your drea m s , you know you are about to go throug h som e type of a spiritual transfor m a ti o n. You can either go down easy or you can go down hard. You can either open and say this is part of what this whole thing is about and this is when I work with client s, in fact in 1989, I had a lot of thes e peopl e coming in. They were saying, “Geez, I’m so confus e d. I don’t know what I want to do with my life. I don’t want to work any mor e .”

I had nine out of ten in 1989, a lot of thos e types, Satur n/Ne p t u n e , right?

And, the story I gave every single one of the m, I could have just mad e one tap e for every single one. This is the story. This is exactly how you handl e this when this is alive in your life. Or if it’s always alive in your life. Here’s the story. Imagin e yours elf at night, always at night, on top of a wond erful cruise ship.

Say it is real eleg a n t , Royal Viking or som e t hi n g, who knows. And you are in the middle of this ocea n going to a place that’s far away. You are really away from land. Everybody is having a party on the secon d or third deck. You have chos e n to go up to the top deck to have som e wond erful spac e. Spac e is very import a n t to this type. And, to get som e fresh air, and to get anot h e r perc e p tion of what it’s like to be on

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the ocea n. Sudd e nly, out of nowher e , creatin g a lot of pan d e m o ni u m , com e s this hug e wind. And it picks you up and blows you off the ship and throws you in the wat er. Now, nobody else on the ship knows that you have gone overbo a r d. They can’t hear you bec a u s e the noise from the party is too loud. The ship, by morning, has sailed on. You are now in the wat er. It is morning and you can obviously see ther e is no land in sight. At that point, you have two choices. The first choice is what?

Scre a m and holler and kick. And what will hap p e n to you, prob a bly? You will proba bly drown, or be eat e n by a shark. Right? Or som e t hi n g that likes you and me. Or, the other choice you have is what?

Right, to save yours elf first. To recognize, “Gee, I’m in the middle of this ocea n and ther e’s no help in sight. I gue s s what I’m going to do is just take a dee p bre a t h, relax, tre a d wat er, may b e sing a little, and relax,” And even t u ally what will happ e n ? I me a n , not really, but theor e tic ally, either som e b o d y will discov er you are missing and com e and get you, a piece of bark or wood will float by that you can hook onto, or the ocea n curren t will take you ( fro m gro u p : “ to a shor e”) that you nev er plann e d on going to.

Q/Com m e n t : That’s exactly what you had on that ‘89 tap e.

Georgia: The ‘89 tap e. That was my ‘89 story. Beca u s e that’s Neptu n e . That’s this type. This type, in the middle of all the chaos, rath e r than beco mi n g the chaos, would be wise to det a c h and say, “Gee, we’re in the middle of chaos, her e.” It’s like in A.A., what’s one of the twelve step s? It says, “One Day At A Time.” And if you realize, “Gee, this is going to take me som e w h e r e else” and not fight it, it usually take s you to place s wond erful and magic al and that you never plann e d on getting to. It’s real easy to sit her e and say that, but it’s not so easy when you are living in the Bay Area in 1991, trying to mak e a living.

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Q/Com m e n t : Dionysus also in the story was a ma gician. Wher e did he get his ma gic?

Georgia: By being with the nat ur e spirits growing up. He just learn e d.

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, so he learn e d it...

Georgia: Yeah, from his exp eri e n ti al interch a n g e in mer ging with the environ m e n t , which is quite differe n t that when we talk about mes s e n g e r s and magic we are going to do Messe n g e r s and Magic in June. That’s learn e d magic.

You know, using the mind to learn it. Dionysus does n’t use his mind. He uses intuition. He uses his sixth sens e.

You know, and I was going to me n tion a little bit about Sadd a m Hussein. I’m going to bring it in right now. I think he is a crazy person. I me a n talk about mad n e s s . He truly is ma d. Okay?

He is a Taurus, but accor ding to one of the chart s I hav e for him, he has a very strong Neptu n e and he is in the twelfth hous e, which is like a Pisces, which is very inter e s ti ng, when you look at what is going on with this whole situa tion. It may be in the losing that he beco m e s martyr e d.

Q/Com m e n t : That’s what the said every Arabian lead er that lost the war bec a m e a martyr. (voi c e to o sof t to he ar cle arl y ) .

Georgia: A martyr for God. The longing to be part of som e t hi n g grea t e r than the self. Let’s die and go to God. I me a n, that is the whole thinking in the entire...

Q/Com m e n t : So, he could beco m e a Born Again?

Georgia: Get the faith? Exactly. The other thing about him thoug h, too, is that you never know what to exp ec t with him. And this is part of what this type is, too. Just as you think you are getting to know the m, you don’t know the m. Or they will do som e t hi n g and they will chan g e cours e. There’s a flexibility about this char a c t e r that is not so pron e in anot h e r type, like a King or Quee n type, which are like “fixed.” You know this is the way it is, this is how the rules are. This is the order. This type will kind of... and this is wher e the cha m el e o n asp e c t

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come s in. They are with you, they beco m e purple blous e s. They are with you, they beco m e pearls. You know, I me a n , they can just beco m e ... And that is why you see a lot of thes e in the film industry. Actors, actr e s s e s .

People who can me s m e riz e the public.

Either for the good or for the bad. Who are actu ally public magician s, I gues s you can call the m that if you want. I keep thinking of peopl e like Jimmy Swagg a r t . I shouldn’t say that. But, the neg a tiv e type s are the Jimmy Swagg a r t , the Tam my and Jim Baker type s.

Thes e are the type s that can get people going for the caus e of God and crea t e the reality that works for the m.

See, the reality that works for the m may not be what reality is but it works for the m, so it is conve ni e n t . So, ther e is a neg a tiv e side to this group as well as... You canno t poss e s s thes e peopl e. It’s like wat er. This type is like wat er. What happ e n s when you put wat er in your han d? It just com e s right out. But, eve n thoug h you canno t poss e s s thes e peopl e, they can poss e s s you.

Q/Com m e n t : The tend e n c y is... (too soft a voice to hear clearly) Georgia: No. They don’t do it consciously. Ther e is som e t hi n g about the way they are that poss e s s e s . It could be the quality of Dionysus, that ecst a tic quality, I me a n , this type can take you to real m s you hav e never bee n, emotion ally, physically.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, the emotion s are consu mi n g, I think.

Q/Com m e n t : And it’s like bonding. It’s so close you kind of mer g e .

Georgia: It’s good. It is bonding. I me a n , that is what they do bec a u s e what hap p e n s is if you hook with this type of person ality they beco m e you and you beco m e the m. In fact, I just saw this very weird movie, a scienc e fiction thing, Oh, it’s an old movie. Alien. You know wher e thos e things are inside thos e peopl e? Okay, I me a n this sound s rath e r extr e m e , but that’s this type.

They beco m e bond e d with you. You beco m e bond e d with

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the m. So, to cut the m away is killing a part of yours elf.

You see? So, it is real hard to bre ak from the m. A very symbiotic relations hip.

Q/Com m e n t : So, how do you hav e a healthy relations hip when that tend e n c y is subcon s ciou sly pres e n t ?

Georgia: I think for this type the kind of healt hy relations hip is to be with anot h e r perso n who nee d s a lot of spac e and det a c h m e n t .

And usu ally thes e relations hips can be very det a c h e d relations hips if they are succ e s sful. I me a n, if they are going to work over a long period of time they maint ain a cert ain ele m e n t of det a c h m e n t .

Becau s e if they stay toget h e r and they keep the symbiosis going on, they can feed off each other a lot. I gue s s anybody who is living with an alcoholic or anybody who is living with, you know, if anybo dy has ever done that... It’s hard to bre ak from the m. Or, it is hard for the m to bre ak from you bec a u s e ther e is som e t hi n g going on that’s not healthy that is really hard to de m a r c a t e what the bound a ri e s might be.

Heir to the kingdo m of vision. They are the seek er s who look dee ply and really see. This is the kind of child, when they are growing up, you can’t bullshit the m. They know when they are hearing B.S. And they know when they are not hearing it. They just know. This is the kind of child when they are growing up that has informa tion. You don’t know wher e they got it from.

But, they’ve got it and it’s correct. Ther e is always som e remot e truth to discov er about the m. The little murky ext erior.

They’ll hook into it and discover it. They are the soul -to - soul type who will plug into what they think they see or want to see.

And they are very selective about what they see and what they don’t, what they are going to show and what they are not going to show. And, for that reaso n, they can be very good in politics.

This is one of the groups you see, you know, kind of stirring people’s souls. Did anybo dy ever see the movie, “Agnes of God”—Jane Fonda was in it. Meg Tillie, with dimples. She was hearing voices. And suppos e dly got preg n a n t by a spirit. Was that how it worked? Okay. That’s a real ecst a s y and mad n e s s type. In fact, if you would look at the whole world of nuns and

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priest s and pope s, and all thos e peopl e, they are very much associat e d with this type, which is really inter e s tin g bec a u s e when you go past Vatican what e v e r , now, they are suppo s e d to be celibat e thoug h a lot of the m aren’t. There is alot of ecst a s y going on behind closed doors. Am I being sacrilegious when I say that? But ther e is a lot of that going on behind close d doors. But, we don’t see it. There is also a lot of mad n e s s and crazine s s. I was not raised in a parochi al school but I’ve hear d stories of people who were raise d in parochi al schools wher e the nuns were crazy. I me a n , they used to beat the hell out of the kid’s hand s and hit the m with rulers and do terrible things to the m. And that is ma d n e s s . That’s when things are out of balanc e. When the soul and the body are out of balanc e. When the soul and the body get out of balanc e, with this type, they get crazy.

Okay, any other ques tion s or com m e n t s so far?

Q/Com m e n t : I just want to go back just for a secon d, in 1993 Neptu n e is going to do exactly what now?

Georgia: 1992, but very specifically ‘93. Ther e’s a line -up in the sky that only hap p e n s once very 180 years of Neptu n e with Uranus, which always indicat e s mystical rebirths, and mystical renaiss a n c e s . It also, one other thing I will say bec a u s e this type is very much a dissolving, it dissolves bord er s and bound a ri e s. You see historically, a lot of countrie s’ border s and boun d a ri e s bre aking down. You know, which is inter e s ti ng bec a u s e that’s when the Europe a n econo m y is suppos e d to begin in 1993.

Q/Com m e n t : A line - up, is that a conjunction?

Georgia: Yeah. Toget h e r , they are toget h e r . Okay? They bring God down to the peopl e or the people to God. Okay?

Now, ther e are gen er a tio n al type s. We were talking about that. I will just give you the year s. You might want to write thes e down. Now I don’t know how many of you know people from 1887, but may b e you have an old gran d p a r e n t . There are people who are living about 120 years now.

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Bet w e e n 18 8 7 an d 19 0 1 , Ne p t u n e in th e sky , in ot h e r wor d s , thi s arch e t y p e wa s in th e si g n of Gemi ni . Now, this arch e t y p e has a lot to do with vision. We’ve talked about that. At that time, the vision was aroun d trad e and com m e r c e .

Gemini is the sign of trad e and com m e r c e and the vision was aroun d me n t al sensitivity.

Bet w e e n 19 0 1 an d 19 1 5 , Ne p t u n e wa s in Canc e r . The vision was aroun d the perfect family. Around the perfect family pictur e d sitting aroun d the dining room table. Over the river and throug h the woods to Grand m o t h e r’ s hous e we go. I’m sure that was writte n aroun d that time. Vision aroun d family and crea ting a dre a m world aroun d the idea of family. And it was, in history, one of the mor e peac ef ul time s, before World War I broke out. And, in fact, Isab el Hickey, I know it’s a crazy na m e , but she was an excellent astrolog er, who is now dea d, claime d that the next time of peac e that was similar to this period betw e e n 1901 and 1915 she saw to be aroun d the year 2000, when Neptun e goes into Aquarius. This may be the 1000 year s of pea c e that Nostr a d a m u s talks about.

Now , th o s e born , whic h are ma n y of our par e n t s , b e t w e e n 19 1 5 an d 19 2 9 had th e arch e t y p a l chara c t e r of Ne p t u n e in Leo. Their vision was of power of the will and of the ego. The lesson during this time was to dissolve the will.

This is the lesson. This is not som e t hi n g they willingly did. To dissolve the will throug h suffering and passion. Some ti m e s many of the m experie n c e this throug h their own children, us.

But, their whole thing was, “Oh, I have the will and the ego.

That’s going to mak e things right. It’s going to mak e things work.” And it was blown out of the wat er with the m.

Then , th er e ’ s th e gro u p whi c h s e v e r a l of us in th e roo m hav e , be t w e e n 19 2 9 and 19 4 3 , wh er e Ne p t u n e wa s in th e si g n of Virg o . This is a vision of service and power throug h service. This is a very strongly service - orient e d group.

This was a time when the labor unions were develop e d. This is a vision of the power of service. The labor unions. It hit the mas s e s . This was also a time when health conc e p t s em er g e d during this period about the relations hip betw e e n me n t al healt h and physical health. Again, som e o n e coughing too loud to hear Georgia survival alter n a tiv e to dise a s e . The lesson for

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this time was to learn lovingn e s s in a pur e way and be less critical and to dissolve the critical asp e c t s of the Self.

Now , th er e are so m e in th e roo m , born be t w e e n 19 4 3 an d 19 5 7 . Tho s e are th e ye ar s wh e n Nep t u n e wa s in Libra, suppo s e dly the sign of pea c e, which was one of the most war - orient e d periods in our rece n t history. Becau s e the big myth about Libras is peac eful and it is not always pea c eful. The vision of the mind which mov e d into crea tion and art. There was a lot of artistry that em er g e d during this period. It was also a time when ther e was a dissolution of love and peac e and a very strong inclination towar d s war. And, the peopl e who have this in their chart s hav e a tend e n c y to be this way in relations hip s. Becau s e they have this idealis m of fairnes s in a relations hip. The most perfect world, the most spiritually perfect world is that a relations hip is perfect and it is balanc e d .

And, then when it isn’t or has a proble m, then they go in and they att ack and crea t e war. The lessons were in compr o mi s e and in the are a of relations hip.

1957 to 1971, this is a rough one. This group had Neptu n e in Scorpio. The esca pist gen e r a tion. Through drugs, alcohol and sex.

Q/Com m e n t : Drugs, sex and rock ‘n roll.

Georgia: Exactly.

Or throug h mor e positive me a n s like medit a tion and chantin g. They also had the ability to really bre ak throug h to the other real m s.

They dissolve d the veil of the myst e ri e s of life, birth, dea t h, and as a result beg a n to look into life after life issue s.

That’s when we first start e d really looking at, “Gee are ther e other persp e c tiv e s ? Other worlds?

Then , th e childr e n wh o are no w adul t s , 19 7 1 to 19 8 5 .

They had Ne p t u n e in Sa gi t t a ri u s . A very inflation ary pictur e and period of the history of econo my bec a u s e Sagitt arius is very overze alo u s. But is it also, as far as bre aking throug h to psychic real ms, psychic sensitivity, making the vision beco m e a reality, it’s a group of peopl e that really hav e the ability to do that. This is one of the most optim al periods.

Combin e s the two rulers of Pisces, Jupiter/Nep t u n e . Psychic sensitivity. A time of tre m e n d o u s vision and the ability to break

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throug h to the higher real m s of conscious n e s s wher e we really beg a n to see that and how we could work in all are a s of our life.

A lot of dog m a tic thinking also em e r g e d during that time like the Funda m e n t a lis m, a lot of the crazy dictat or s, in fact wasn’t it, ther e was a wond erful, again I hat e to bring up Sadd a m Hussein, but ther e was a progr a m on Front Line last night called, “The Mind of Sadd a m . ” It was wond erful. I did a tap e of it. And he did begin to com e to power in ‘57 and ‘58. They say a lot of dictat or s start e d to com e throug h aroun d that time.

Then w e hav e Nep t u n e in Capric or n , ‘85 to 20 0 0 . We are in it right now. Obviously the children that are five, our children are six and nine. This is the practic al application of spiritual principles to the tradition al, corpor a t e and busin e s s world. In other words, taking the idea of spirit into the mor e tradition al conve n tion al, orga nization al mold. This is a time when we are trying to do that. I me a n we are seeing a lot. Like, New York Telepho n e is bringing in peopl e to teac h their peopl e to medit a t e now. So they are mor e efficient on the phon e s. You see a lot of peopl e bringing in ma s s a g e ther a pist s into the work place to relieve the tension and the stres s. They are getting involved.

END SIDE A, TAPE TWO OF TWO

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BEGINNING OF SIDE B—TAPE TWO OF TWO —Geor g i a— m o r e like an int er vi e w her e tha n a lect ur e— n e w per s o n as ki n g lot s of qu e s t i o n s — s e e m s like a ne w su bj e c t , but I wa s n ’ t sur e until I had typ e d th e maj ori t y of it.

Q/Com m e n t : ...so many things going on...

Georgia: ... it’s like they’ve got 6,000 teleph o n e lines all at one time. Or 6,000 com m u ni c a tion wires going at one time.

Q/Com m e n t : So they are kind of like the inform a tion proce s sin g bec a u s e this is a new inform a tion age that we are into right now.

Georgia: Yeah. And we have a lot of thes e . I think this country has a lot of this type.

Q/Com m e n t : People that are into informa tion and giving inform a tion and receiving informa tion.

Georgia: It’s a very neutr al proce s s when you think about it, too.

It’s neutr al in the sens e that ther e is not a whole lot of sexu ality that’s conjoine d with this.

Q/Com m e n t : It’s a mor e intellect u al bent?

More of an intellect u al proce s si ng groun d e d , but it’s mor e of an intellect u al sign. Becau s e the other Pisces were into power and then into sex...

Georgia: Yeah. This is mor e intellect u al. This is all mind ga m e stuff.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay. Is this the type that will be going to colleg e?

And going to school? And are they const a n tly learning?

Georgia: They never really stop going to school, they are const a n tly learning.

Q/Com m e n t : I think the difficulty is, bec a u s e they usu ally are pret ty bright, is to focus on specific are a of exper tis e.

And they may continu ally go to school. In fact what they go to school for may not be what they end up doing. Beca u s e ther e is just so ma ny idea s. This is a very chan g e a bl e group of people.

Q/Com m e n t : They’re reactive?

Georgia: Uh? Reactive?

Q/Com m e n t : What I me a n is why are they chan g e a bl e ?

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Becau s e they’ve got so much informa tion...

Georgia: So much is coming in. It’s kind of like ther e’s not really much time with all the inform a tion that goes in and out for the m to really feel about how they think, how they feel about thes e things.

Q/Com m e n t : So, then they aren’t proce s si ng and they are not prioritizing and say, “Okay, it’s coming in. Now I’m going to set an appro pri at e spac e for this to do it.”

Georgia: Right. They are just ther e to give you the inform a tion.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, they are not balanc e d .

Georgia: They may not be balanc e d . That’s very good. They may not be in the body very much.

Q/Com m e n t : But they sound like they’re not balanc e d bec a u s e one of the lessons you hav e to learn is that you get the inform a tion but you have to have time to listen to it. I me a n if you go along the road and you are seeing everyt hing, grea t , but you can smell the flowers but you always also have to appr e ci a t e the flowers.

Georgia: Oh, they appr e ci a t e . I think they have real good sens e s of humor and they are real lighth e a r t e d basically, and I think that they are a lot of fun. But ther e is a very childlike quality about this group of peopl e. This is a group of peopl e that does n’t nec e s s a rily ever grow up.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: Uh- bec a u s e they are not really ground e d in the body that much. It’s kind of like thes e are the kinds of people when they get to be 80 years old, they still look like they’re 30 or 40, which is kind of nea t when you think about it. They are agel e s s. They are agel e s s, sexles s.

It does n’t me a n they don’t enjoy sex, it’s just that when they are into sex it’s fun, it’s mor e of a me n t al cont e s t of sex rath er than the physical.

Q/Com m e n t : It’s very inter e s tin g that you would say that they would be mor e into... they would keep their—is that in looks?

Georgia: They may be afraid of age (GEORGIA, NOT SURE

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THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID) Q/Com m e n t : Well, you know what’s really funny is that what I have bee n reading lately is that if you don’t use your mind you are going to lose it.

Georgia: That’s exactly right.

Q/Com m e n t : And, so, what happ e n s with this type is that they are const a n tly using their mind.

Georgia: Using their minds they never really age.

Q/Com m e n t : And, yeah, I hav e a friend of mine that is a gran d m o t h e r of anot h e r friend and I go over ther e and I swe ar that this woma n is like 25. But, she is in her 90’s.

But, I ador e her and she has all this wond erful power about her, and quality, and I am just fascina t e d by her.

But, that’s bec a u s e she uses her mind and she thinks and she read s and she listens to music and she asks que stion s.

Georgia: They ask lots and lots of ques tions. And the funny thing is as much as they ask ques tion s, they may not always listen to the answ er s but they ask the ques tion s to get...

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, in this day of passive n e s s and so forth...

Georgia: They are very active.

Q/Com m e n t : ...they do want to be the perso n that’s going to be the conver s a tion alist. So, in other words, this is the person what will really get off on being a conver s a tio n alist. So, this is the kind of person that is going to want to talk. That is going to want to shar e idea s and, you know, today, this is the inform a tion age, but so many peopl e are into just being quiet. I me a n, they will sit in front of the T.V., it’s a lot of passive stuff.

So, in other words, will this type watch T.V.? Or will they be with their comp u t e r ?

Georgia: No, they will watch T.V., too. That’s how they relax.

Q/Com m e n t : Is watching T.V. Do they pay att e n tion to the T.V., or is it just sound?

Georgia: Uh—dep e n d s on whet h e r their tired or not. Yeah, they

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 48

are really into plugging into T.V., plugging into the comp u t e r , plugging into dat a bas e s, plugging into library, or wher ev e r they have to go to get the inform a tion, they will. But, I think T.V. is actu ally like a tranq uilizer for the m. Puts the m to sleep, to rest. In other words, it’s the one thing that will settle their mind down bec a u s e it mak e s the mind passive.

Q/Com m e n t : It is. Okay. Now is this the kind of person that want s to come hom e and play with their comp u t e r ? Or is this the type that will want to come hom e and watch movies, the news and then go to sleep?

Georgia: Depe n d s on the type of day they’ve had. If they hav e had a hard day, then they will just want to watch T.V. and spac e out. If they hav e had a pretty easy day, which is gen e r ally not the cas e, they will go and plug into the comp u t e r , or they’ll take a little nap and then they’ll go plug in.

Q/Com m e n t : So, the comp u t e r ...

Georgia: The cat - nap type of person ality.

Q/Com m e n t : Cat - nap type of person ality?

Georgia: Yeah, like a couple hours her e, an hour ther e. They are not really good straight -throug h sleep e r s.

Q/Com m e n t : But the comp u t e r really turns the m on?

Georgia: Oh, yeah! I think. Becau s e they use their han d s and their brains.

Q/Com m e n t : Why don’t they slee p clear throug h?

Georgia: Very hard for the m to slee p. This the classic insom ni ac type.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: Well, I think it’s bec a u s e when they are sleepin g, you know, if they are in the other world, which is the dre a m world, that is just as active as the waking stat e, so wher ev e r they go they really can’t, it’s never really settle d. You know, ther e is not really any place they can go to just compl et ely spac e out and relax. Sort of like Her m e s . You know, went throug h all the worlds, the

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world, the und er world, the overworld, middle world.

Never stay e d in one place for very long.

Q/Com m e n t : Are they concer n e d with...

Georgia: And it’s boring. Sleep is boring.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, this is the type that will be conc er n e d with getting the right kind of mat t r e s s , the right kind of pillow, the right kind of everyt hing to help the m to slee p.

Georgia: Oh, they may b e will have fixation in trying to get enoug h slee p.

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah. Or fixation on just doing what e v e r they have to do to be able to slee p. I me a n, will they be the kind that have like a little, I me a n if they are with som e b o d y , will they have a little spotlight so they can wake up and read?

Georgia: Oh, absolut ely. They always have books next to the bed and they have spotlight s, always hav e lights.

Q/Com m e n t : How about a little thing for like the T.V., or will they go to sleep to T.V.?

Georgia: Sure. That’s definitely the type.

Q/Com m e n t : Or, will they go with the radio. I me a n , are they a radio perso n?

Georgia: Go to slee p with T.V. mor e than radio.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: Unless it’s a talk show on the radio. See, if it’s words, in other words.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, it isn’t quite so musical when they listen to their radio...

Georgia: They don’t have the patienc e to listen to music.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay. But what they want to do. So they are mor e high strun g. So, what they want to do is that they want to hear the weat h e r forec a s t , they want to hear the stock mark e t, they want to hear the news and what’s going on, and...

Georgia: Very high strun g. Right, and read the pap e r while they are listening to it.

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Q/Com m e n t : And read the pap er while they are listening to it. (laugh t e r ) Georgia: They are a little crazy. Well, they are not really crazy.

They just... they have a cap a city...

Q/Com m e n t : They are hungry to learn. And also that’s who they are. Becau s e people who have mor e intellect u al bed? bent? can’t hear what she is saying her e. , they are going to be the ones that are going to set tren d s and be able to... Those are the people you can dep e n d on to get things done.

Georgia: Oh yeah. They are wond erful sales people. I me a n this is... the sales field is the field wher e thes e peopl e really excel. The sales field, any field that has to do with com m u ni c a tion s work, esp e ci ally if they have to mov e aroun d a lot. They are not the type to sit behind a desk for too many hours in the day bec a u s e they are too restles s.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, one of the things about making a real effective sales p e r s o n , that I feel, from my backgro u n d, is to be able to give the m ultima t e inform a tion. To be able to give the m inform a tion on the comp e tition, on the high feat ur e s of the, like an auto m o bile, how ma ny miles it’s going to get to the gallon, and so forth, wher e so ma ny people will com e in and they’ll kick it and they’ll go, well t his is really pret ty, and do you want it in red, or som e t hi n g. No, this perso n is going to be the person... (INTERRUPTION HERE—lots of people talking, kids, etc.)

Georgia: Yes. They will want the informa tion, but the thing I was going to say before we got interrup t e d was that the best sales people will be the ones that have som e b o d y han dling all their det ails bec a u s e they won’t do that.

Q/Com m e n t : Ah! Okay. So, in other words, they want to do the overview. And they want to do the—this sound s like a real me type of busin e s s—so in other words they will do the overview of it, they will figure out the strat e g y ...

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 51

Georgia: And they won’t do the det ails very well.

Q/Com m e n t : But they would prob a bly really like to look at the big pictur e.

Georgia: Yeah. Always.

Q/Com m e n t : Kind of like the King and Que e n. This type could really be a very...

Georgia: I don’t think they are King and Quee n type at all. I think they are assist a n t s to Kings and Quee n s.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay.

Alright.

Well, like for exa m pl e, again pointing to mys elf her e, is that like with Tom. Tom was the boss, but he empow e r e d me and I ma d e a lot of decisions and followed throug h on a lot of stuff and ma d e it hap p e n . So, I had the ability to see the big pictur e.

Georgia: Right, and mak e the magic.

Q/Com m e n t : And mak e the magic.

Georgia: Becau s e they mak e ma gic. That’s what they do.

Q/Com m e n t : How do you me a n they mak e ma gic?

Georgia: Well, bec a u s e , see, getting all that inform a tion is sort of like potions, I gues s.

Q/Com m e n t : They have to interpr e t it.

Georgia: Yeah, right. They have to synth e siz e it. They have to stir it. And then they mak e their magic. It’s like the old alche mi s t s, suppos e dly they turn e d lead into gold.

Becau s e they had all the inform a tion and all the principles of the Univers e in order to do that. And, that’s what the pure s t of this type will do. I don’t know if they are really inter e s t e d in being kings and que e n s .

Becau s e then it would requir e a lot mor e having to stay with one thing a lot longer than they really prefer to stay with.

Q/Com m e n t : Are they proble m solvers?

Georgia: Yes, very definitely proble m solvers. Very definitely ...

Q/Com m e n t : Strat e gis t s?

Georgia: Uh—Yeah. I’d say they are good strat e gi s t s. I don’t know if strat e gi st is the right word. It’s mor e lawyer

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types. Um, putting things into order. You know, what’s the word?

Prioritizing.

They’re good at prioritizing which is the best import a n t piece of inform a tion, the secon d import a n t piece, the third import a n t piece. And then, may b e even they or som e b o d y else acting on it.

Q/Com m e n t : Do they like to do hand s - on work? Or are they mor e men t al?

Georgia: Yeah, I think that they are hand s -on types. But I think...

Q/Com m e n t : Are they mor e me n t al than they are hand s -on?

Georgia: I think they are a combin a tion. I think that they like han d s - on, but I don’t know if they will stay with one han d s - on project for any lengt h of time. I think that they will be the type s that have like two or thre e things going. They are the types that have two or thre e books going.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: For the variety.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, the variety turns the m on.

They don’t want to just...

Georgia: Oh, yeah. They have to have variety. That’s why they can’t stay behind a desk nine to five every day. It’d drive the m nuts. They have to get in the car. They have to go.

Q/Com m e n t : Like for me. I would rath e r work at one thing at a time and not scat t e r mys elf.

Georgia: Yeah, but thes e peopl e really like the two or thre e things going. And it gets done, it’s just that...

Q/Com m e n t : They have to have som e b o d y behind the m to...

Georgia: Yeah, to push the m and focus and the m.

Q/Com m e n t : To push the m and focus the m but also to do the det ail work.

Georgia: Yeah. I would say if you want to get a pictur e, they are good jugglers. And they walk while they are juggling.

Q/Com m e n t : But, how can you spot the m in a comp a n y ?

Georgia: They are ant sy, they don’t sit still for too long. They chan g e positions a lot. Their eyes are quick. Cock their

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hea d a lot. Usually, they are sort of wiry, even if they are heavy set, ther e is this wiry quality about the m.

Good sens e s of hu mor.

Q/Com m e n t : What turns the m on?

Georgia: Humor. They really have good sens e s of humor. They like to laugh. Being able to... discussions turn the m on.

They will get mor e turn e d on by discussions than anyt hing else. Like som e b o d y who’s got the brain to mat c h their brain.

Q/Com m e n t : What kind of books will they read?

Georgia: I don’t know if they are really fiction types. I think they are mor e the non - fiction type. The how- to’s, the ...

Q/Com m e n t : Would they read about Einst ein?

Georgia: About his life story?

They might read about him bec a u s e he was a mes s e n g e r in magic.

He was a mes s e n g e r in magic. They are always trying to figure out theories, trying to work theories.

Q/Com m e n t : Would they be into like the I Ching?

Georgia: Uh -huh.

(GEORGIA, NOT SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID) I Ching. Gam e s . Cards.

Q/Com m e n t : How about occult philosophy?

Or Buddhis m?

Study of the differe n t religions? Just to just know about it.

Georgia: They would study about the m. They may not really nec e s s a rily stay with any particular one. They would have a vast store h o u s e of knowled g e .

Q/Com m e n t : I had an ex - boss, Phil Brian, that was into all that, but he used to walk a lot. Around the lake. And then, I think that he would think about this stuff to kind of cent er hims elf.

So, if we were talking about what lessons in life like what to work on, if they are all wired up all the time, may b e som e t hi n g like doing me dit a tion or...

Georgia: Um- mm. Oh, that would help the m tre m e n d o u sly. If they could learn to me dit a t e or if they could exercis e on a regular basis, or if they could learn to do biofee d b a c k,

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 54

or work with things like hypnot h e r a p y and calm the m down, that’s good stuff. They really do nee d som e t hi n g that kind of keep s the m focus e d. Beca u s e it is real easy for thes e peopl e to go off... I’d say thes e peopl e are real sensitivity to things like bad air, coffee, any kind of stimul a n t s they are particularly sensitive. They might not really want to be ...

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, they don’t want to be in the...

Georgia: They don’t want to get any mor e char g e d up then they alrea dy are.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay. So caffeine would be a proble m for the m?

Georgia: Probably.

Q/Com m e n t : How about swe e t s? Sugar level?

Georgia: I’m not sure they eat that kind of food. They’re not the type.

Q/Com m e n t : Are they the mor e healt h food type?

Georgia: Yeah. The mor e health food type. Or eat little bits her e and little bits ther e. But a pure type like this isn’t going to sit down to big me al s.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, not many of thes e peopl e will have a lot of weight on the m.

Georgia: If they really are a pur e type.

Or they have fast met a b olis m s. This is the type of peopl e that can eat a lot. And don’t gain a pound. Very definitely.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, in this new age of thinking and so forth, you know, dieting now, has gott e n to be almos t a scienc e.

Georgia: Um- mm m . They know all about that stuff.

Q/Com m e n t : But this would be som e t hi n g that they would be into bec a u s e it is like scientifically bas e d and so they are inter e s t e d in formula s and what mak e s things go with what.

Georgia: Um- mm m . What works with what. And they will tell you everyt hing you nee d to know about it. And the thing about it is they will prob a bly prefer light er foods which, on som e level, is not always real good for the m bec a u s e light foods kind of keep you kind of lighth e a d e d

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 55

and like fruits and nuts and yogurt s and stuff. This is the type that would eat this, but actu ally that incre a s e s the cap a city to be light, so they really once in awhile nee d som e groundin g kinds of foods. Starch e s would be real good for thes e peopl e to eat?

Q/Com m e n t : What are roadblocks for the m?

Some t hi n g that will stop the m.

Georgia: Uh. Not getting enou g h sleep for one thing.

Q/Com m e n t : What will that do to the m?

Georgia: Oh, it will leave the m real scat t e r e d . Just real scat t e r e d .

So, they...

Q/Com m e n t : So, this slee p issue is very import a n t to the m.

That’s a big issue to the m.

Georgia: I think it’s an Achilles’s heel for the m, too.

Q/Com m e n t : What does that me a n ?

Georgia: Well, I think that since it’s like they are da m n e d if they do and da m n e d if they don’t, they som e ti m e s have a really hard time sleeping, but if they don’t sleep then they are worse. So, it is som e t hi n g that they might even beco m e som e w h a t obse s s e d with, is getting enoug h slee p.

Q/Com m e n t : Now, would this type be, want to take a drink befor e they go to sleep thinking that this is going to help the m? No, I don’t think so. Becau s e ...

Georgia: No, they’ll read.

Q/Com m e n t : Yeah. They’ll read and they’ll know that thos e drugs are bad for the m.

Georgia: Yeah. Plus their syst e m prob a bly won’t be able to take too much of the alcohol or the ... their syst e m s really are not going to take that stuff. It’s just like stimul a n t s.

They syst e m s are real, like finely tune d syst e m s .

Q/Com m e n t : Are they going to take car e of their bodies?

Georgia: Yeah. Gener ally spe a king. I think they do.

Q/Com m e n t : Are they into exercis e?

Georgia: Um- mm m . A lot of the m are the runn er types.

Q/Com m e n t : The long dist an c e runn er s?

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 56

Georgia:

Yeah. The kinds that... yeah. Biking types. Bicycles are a real big thing thes e days.

Q/Com m e n t : Tennis?

Georgia: Tennis is a grea t ga m e of thes e people.

Q/Com m e n t : Golf?

Georgia: Golf? I don’t know about golf. Golf might... it’s kind of slow. Basket b all might be...

Q/Com m e n t : Soccer?

Georgia: Soccer might be som e t hi n g, sure, with the feet.

Some t hin g that...

Q/Com m e n t : Swimming?

Georgia: Nah, swim min g, no, I don’t think swim min g would be for the m. Swimming would be mor e for the ecst a s y type.

Becau s e they don’t want to get all wet.

Q/Com m e n t : In high school would they hav e play ed bask e t b all or football?

Georgia: Not footb all. Baske t b all would be a ga m e for the m.

Q/Com m e n t : And wom e n would be in gymn a s tics?

Georgia: Um- mm.

Gymn a s tics, tennis, may b e rollerska tin g, icesk a ting. What else is a fast, quick ga m e ? Bridge, that’s not a physical ga m e , but it’s a me n t al ga m e , so Bridge might be som e t hi n g. This might be som e t hi n g they might like. Cards.

Q/Com m e n t : Gee. You know, what I see her e is that with friends, they...

Georgia: It’s like a friend who will do anyt hing at any time, just drop anything to go anywh er e .

Q/Com m e n t : Are they long ter m friends or will they be, I me a n , you’re saying that they are spont a n e o u s , but are they the kind that will get bored easy?

Georgia: Real spont a n e o u s . Very bored easily. And distrac t e d easily.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, what kind of a friend would they like to have? I me a n, would they like a type of friend that’s a lot like the m?

Georgia: They’d like a real groun d e d friend. Let’s put it this way.

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 57

They’ll proba bly be long ter m friends with som e b o d y who is very stabl e and very ground e d . Beca u s e they really nee d a groun ding for thes e people. They nee d som e b o d y who is kinda gonn a pull the m and pin the m a little bit.

Q/Com m e n t : And be ther e.

Georgia: Yeah. They may not always be ther e for their friends, thoug h.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: In relations hips they may not always be that loyal either.

You know, wher ev e r the winds are blowing.

Easily could have two relations hips going on at the sa m e time, this type. I me a n, if their...

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, they are into that cland e s ti n e other life, so this...

Georgia: They have sever al lives.

Yeah.

They have sever al scen a rios going on at the sa m e time.

Q/Com m e n t : Is this the person that could have two or thre e wives? Or...

Georgia: Oh, this is the type.

Q/Com m e n t : Two or thre e wives, plus a mistr e s s.

Georgia: And convinc e the m that they are the only ones. I’m not kidding. Becau s e they are trickst er s, you know. There is a side to the m that is real trickst erish.

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, they’ll danc e the tune and give you the dazzle and hav e you, it’s like a ma gic touch, and then they will kind of get you und er their spell and tell you what you want to hear?

Georgia: Yeah.

Q/Com m e n t : Tell you what you want to hear and be very...

Georgia: They’ll know what you want to hear. That’s how good they are.

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, they’ll know what you want to hear.

Georgia: They are good sales peopl e. I’m not saying they are all like this. I me a n, ther e are som e real straight ones, you know, but they really can... thes e are the...

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 58

Q/Com m e n t : It’s a scienc e. It’s a playboy. But, it’s a challeng e .

Georgia: Yeah. Sveng ali’s playboy s.

Q/Com m e n t : What’s a Sveng ali?

Georgia: A Sveng ali is som e b o d y of John Derrick of Bo Derrick.

You know, he take s wom e n and mak e s the m famo u s.

You know. Or who has all this charis m a about the m that nobody can und er s t a n d why and they have thes e people und er their spell. A Jim Jones type, in Guyan a, was this type.

Q/Com m e n t : What wome n would be like this?

Georgia: Fem al e mod els that we hav e see n? Um. Oh, gosh, she died just rece n tly. A com e di a n. Gilda Radn er.

Q/Com m e n t : Why? Georgia: The quirky sens e of humor. The sever al perso n alities.

The livewire quality. Being just a little off. There’s som e t hi n g about the m that is just a little off.

Q/Com m e n t : How about the lady that was the phon e lady?

What’s her na m e ?

Georgia: Oh. Lily Tomlin? Oh, she’s definitely that type.

Q/Com m e n t : Now, why is she that type?

Georgia: The quirky sens e of humor. Intellect u al hu mor. You know?

In fact, I think com e di a n s are this type in gen er al.

Q/Com m e n t : Like, what about Joan Rivers?

Georgia: Yeah. She’s this type.

Q/Com m e n t : Jack Paar, Johnnie Carson.

Georgia: Yeah.

They’re all this type.

The com e di a n s are definitely usually this cat e g ory. You know. Very rarely do you see... Becau s e they are playing with your mind.

Come dy is totally a mind ga m e .

You know.

And pictur e s and observ er s. They observ e things and they give you their interpr e t a tio n.

They are interpr e t e r s.

And they are very, very funny. I me a n, they are a lot of fun to be with. I me a n this is the type that won’t get down for very long.

Q/Com m e n t : They’ll bounc e right back up.

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Georgia:

They’ll come back. Yeah. falls into a depr e s sion.

Q/Com m e n t : Well, they’re too smar t.

Georgia: Well, it’s not only that. It’s just they’re not... I don’t want to say they’re not that dee p bec a u s e that’s not really... it’s not right. It’s not that they are not dee p.

It’s just that... almost like their bodies are sort of like chan n el s for other things.

So, you know, all the inform a tion that com e s throug h. I me a n if you deal with people who do chan n eling, this might be the type.

Becau s e their body is almos t like a conduit pipe for the inform a tion.

So, I don’t know how much they are dealing with things, on how dee p a level. I me a n , the kinds that really go in are like the sha m a n s and sha dow s type.

Q/Com m e n t : Why would they respo n d to the I Ching?

Georgia: The inform a tion, the fun of it. The chanc e. The ga m e of it.

Q/Com m e n t : Would they believe in it’s power?

Georgia: Well, I think they would take it into accou n t, sure, they do believe in things like that. They are very definitely people who believe in proph e c y oracles. I me a n they are the ones that are proba bly doing it. So, they believe in it. The extr e m e of this type could be the psychotic crazy type, too.

Q/Com m e n t : Charles Manson?

Georgia: I don’t know if Charles Manson is a good... but, like a schizophr e nic type, you know? Schizophr e nic, par a n oid, multiple person ality, type. Like “Thre e Faces of Eve.” That’s extr e m e . I me a n , they’re not all like this. But if you live with the m, you know that they are going to have two or thre e person alities. It does n’t me a n they are crazy. It’s just that they are very... ther e are a lot of mood swings...

Q/Com m e n t : So, in other words, that’s going to be a very difficult thing to live with.

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Georgia: Oh, absolut ely. Oh, God, yes.

Q/Com m e n t : Becau s e you know what? You never know who they are.

Georgia: You don’t know who’s coming hom e ?

Q/Com m e n t : ... Sant a Claus walking throug h the door or som e b o d y else, and you never know what the hell they’re going to do. I rem e m b e r Phil Brian walked into my office one time and, he loved me, but he walked in and said, “I don’t like it that you’re smar t e r than I am” and then he turn e d aroun d and close d the door. He was mad d e r than hell.

Georgia: He was an Aquarius, wasn’t he? I think he was. Yeah.

That’s typical. He proba bly forgot what he said an hour later.

Q/Com m e n t : But, why would they do that? Becau s e they didn’t like som e b o d y that was smar t e r than the m? I me a n , they want to be...

Georgia: Oh, that’s comp e tition. The me n t al s. They want to be smar t. They want to be on top.

Q/Com m e n t : That’s their crown. That’s their glory.

Georgia: Yeah. And I’ll tell ya, that if their mind start s to go, like if they start losing it with Alzheim er’s or som e t hi n g, it’s a real cat a s t r o p h e . A real crisis for the m.

Q/Com m e n t : Would they mak e good physician s?

Georgia: I think so.

Q/Com m e n t : Dentists?

Georgia: Oh, absolut ely. I think so, bec a u s e they hav e to have all that informa tion and then they hav e to act on it.

Q/Com m e n t : How about a scientist?

Georgia: As far as emp a t h y , I don’t know if they always hav e it, but they’d be very good tech nic ally.

Q/Com m e n t : Might not hav e the bedsid e man n e r , but tech nic ally they’d be able to do it. SO they are mor e rese a r c h orient e d then?

Would they mak e good rese a r c h e r s ?

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 61

Georgia:

Ther e’s a heal er quality to this group. I me a n, just by what they tell you, the way they say things. They’re the real devil’s advoc a t e s type s. They will say som e t hi n g just to get a rise in the group. And ther e is a healing quality about this group, too. Like what they say either heals you or wakes you up to the fact that, “God, I really nee d to look at som e stuff.”

Q/Com m e n t : Are they going to emp ow e r you? If they empow e r you...

Georgia: Yeah. I think if you listen to what they have to say, even if it’s neg a tiv e, I think...

Q/Com m e n t : If they emp ow e r you will they be partly hooking you, too?

Georgia: No. Q/Com m e n t : Do they want som e t hi n g back for what they give you?

Georgia: Not nec e s s a rily.

Q/Com m e n t : I know Phil Brian was fucking just about every woma n that was ther e and giving the m power but what was very inter e s tin g to me is that they would stay with him and he would keep the m on staff. And Georgia: And stay friends.

Q/Com m e n t : Stay friends. I me a n , very dee ply loyal. I me a n, he could be screwing all thre e and all thre e know that they are being screw e d by him and his wife does n’t know it but he’s just doing it with every bo dy and they’re hap py.

Georgia: And they stay friends. Thes e are the type that could break up with you and still stay friends. Thes e are the type that could break up with you, have sex with you and you’d still be friends with the m. Isn’t that weird?

Still stay friends, thoug h. There would be no... ther e would still be the friends hip. See, they are friends. I me a n, friends hip is real import a n t for the m. Very social.

Q/Com m e n t : Okay, now, with a mal e friend, would they be kind of like a man’s man? Or, you know, like som e people

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 62

are mor e apt to be with the opposit e sex and then som e people can really do well, I me a n , everybo dy does well with the opposit e sex, but you know what I me a n ? It’s like this guy I know does very, very well with a lot of men. But, his power is with the sa m e sex. His me n.

His power. But, he uses wome n and...

Georgia: He uses the m?

Q/Com m e n t : Oh, yeah, for sex.

Georgia: I don’t think this is the type.

Q/Com m e n t : No. He tries to... What does he bring out of wome n?

Georgia: I think this type does n’t real... sex is not num b e r one on their age n d a . It’s just not. I me a n , of cours e they do it, but I don’t think it’s up ther e on the top of the list.

That’s why when they bre ak up with som e o n e they can still be friends bec a u s e their minds hav e conn e c t e d .

Q/Com m e n t : Ah-h- h. But what about the peopl e that they love?

Their wife?

Georgia: Or their husb a n d ? I think they’ll still stay friends even if they split. This is the type that can do that. And their mat e s really have to be real friends.

Q/Com m e n t : First.

Georgia: Yeah, and in fact, thes e are the kind, som e ti m e s thes e are the marria g e s , it dep e n d s on the type s that are involved, but som e ti m e s marriag e s ...

Q/Com m e n t : So, let’s talk about relations hip s.

Georgia: Yeah. These are the marria g e s like if, I me a n , ther e’s proba bly over a 50 perc e n t chanc e that ther e is a loyalty that they keep betw e e n the two of the m. But this is the kind of marriag e s that you hear about wher e they hav e arra n g e m e n t s with other people and the part n e r s know about it and it’s okay.

Q/Com m e n t : So, they have a som e b o d y that’s going to show up with som e b o d y to take car e of the m, so.

Okay, that’s that type.

Georgia: Yeah. It’s kind of like, you know, I hear d Kirk Douglas,

ECSTASY/MADNESS -- Page 63

he wrot e the book, “The Rag Man.”....

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