Comic Book Creator #20 Preview by TwoMorrows Publishing

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A TwoMorrows Publication

No. 20, Summer 2019

THE “NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOES” ISH!

82658 00362

Joe Sinnott Joe Jusko Joe Field Joe Maneely plus Some Guy Named Yoe and Kristina Deak-Linsner!

Cover by Joseph Michael Linsner

S u m m e r 2 0 1 9 • F i v e J o e s a n d a Yo e I s s u e • N u m b e r 2 0

T THE DEVILISH SAINT WOODY CBC mascot by J.D. KING

Ye Ed’s Rant: Robert Crumb’s generosity of spirit and Ye Ed’s newest book................... 2 COMICS CHATTER

About Our Cover

Up Front: A Guy Named Yoe: Part one of a close look at Craig Yoe of Yoe Books........ 3

Art by JOSEPH MICHAEL LINSNER

The Great Sinnott: Bob Andelman shares his 2007 interview with the inker............... 18

Incoming: Chattering about the Wallace Wood and Steve Rude issues....................... 14 A Gathering of Weirdos: Kendall Whitehouse captures a historical conclave............ 24

Cry for Dawn TM & © Joseph Michael Linsner. Others TM & © the respective trademark owners.

Darrick Patrick’s 10 Questions for Stan Sakai: Q’s for Usagi Yojimbo’s creator .... 28 Joe Fields on the Idea That Saved Comics: The secret origin story of FCBD!......... 30 Hembeck’s Dateline: Our Man Fred on Steve Ditko’s “Just a Guy Named Joe”......... 36 Comics in the Library: Rich Arndt shares his second war comics installment............ 37 THE MAIN EVENTS Oh, Lucky Linsner!: CBC converses with Joseph Michael Linsner about three decades with Dawn and his amazing, “lucky” life as a comic book artist...... 38 Joseph Michael Linsner Timeline: A chronology of JML’s comics career................ 62 Above: The headliner of our “Not Your Average Joes” special ish, JOSEPH MICHAEL LINSNER shares this spectacular illustration, which features his signature character, Dawn, and masks of various other characters he’s worked on over the years, including his own creations, Sinful Suzi and Obsidian Stone, as well as Killraven, Harley Quinn, and Vampirella. Regarding the latter character, Joe and his wife, Kristina Deak-Linsner, teamed to produce the 2018 mini-series, Vampirella: Roses for the Dead, written by Kristina.

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Kristina Deak-Linsner, Joe’s Better Half: A chat with the writer/artist about her collaborations with husband Joe Linsner and the joy of working on Vampirella .... 64 Joe Jusko’s Pop Art Productions: The great comics painter talks about his wonderful “Corner Box” creations featuring Marvel’s fabled heroes....................... 68 What If… Joe Maneely Had Lived?: Atlas Comics expert Michael J. Vassallo speculates on what could have been at the dawn of the Marvel Age of Comics.... 74 Buckler Bounces Back: The final portion of Michael Aushenker’s interview with the late artist on working for corporations and reinvention as surrealist painter.... 82 BACK MATTER Creators at the Con: Kendall Whitehouse captures the Monster Makers among us!.... 94 Coming Attractions: Eric Powell celebrates 20 years of The Goon................................ 95 A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Words: Tom Ziuko shares another treasure............. 96 Right: At right is a detail of Joseph Michael Linsner’s signature character, Dawn, from the cover of Dawn/ Vampirella #1 [Sept. 2014].

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR is a proud joint production of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows

Comic Book Creator ™ is published quarterly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Dr., Raleigh, NC 27614 USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Jon B. Cooke, editor. John Morrow, publisher. Comic Book Creator editorial offices: P.O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892 USA. E-mail: jonbcooke@aol.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Four-issue subscriptions: $45 US, $67 International, $20 Digital. All characters are © their respective copyright owners. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter ©2019 Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. Comic Book Creator is a TM of Jon B. Cooke/TwoMorrows. ISSN 2330-2437. Printed in China. FIRST PRINTING.

up front

A Guy Named Yoe Part one of a two-part interview with cartoonist/publisher/historian Craig Yoe

Craig Yoe portrait © Kendall Whitehouse. Books TM & © the respective copyright holders. Photo, Yoe Books logo © Craig Yoe.

Conducted by JON B. COOKE Comic Book Creator: Where are you from, Craig? Craig Yoe: I was born in the corn and raised with the pigs in Iowa. My family soon moved to the Rubber Capital of the World, Akron, Ohio — “Tire Town.” Breathing the rubber fumes from the factories as a tender child made me the person I am today! CBC: [Chuckles] What did your dad do? Craig: My dad, Duane Yoe, was an inventor and worked for various rubber companies in Tire Town. You know what they say, Jon: “You can’t reinvent the wheel.” But, my dad outlandishly went against all sense and convention, and spent years of his life and tons of Goodyear’s dollars in a crazy effort to do just that. He came up with the ludicrous idea of a triangular tire! I have a photo of me, right here on the wall above my drawing board, sitting on a tractor with the prototype triangular tire! The idea was to get more traction in muddy fields, but, of course, it didn’t work! They are right when they say you can’t reinvent the wheel, but I am immensely proud of my old man, who went against all logic and tried anyway! Dad’s brazen act inspires me to this day. In my lifetime, I sure have invented a lot of triangular tires! CBC: Was your dad an engineer? Craig: He was a chemical engineer, who dreamed up new ideas, chemical and otherwise. Dad was an independent thinker and independent soul. He always wanted to be his

own boss, get way from working for The Man, and he achieved that dream at times. Working for myself is in my DNA. Another one of Dad’s creations was also very influential to me. When I was into comics, he was collecting coins. He brainstormed, produced, and sold a wacky device to cut holes in plastic sheets to display collector’s prized coins. My dad called his tiny home-based company, Yoe and Son. Geez, I love him for that. I wasn’t even a teenager—this name for the company was so affirming! I’d help dad assemble, package, and mail his invention. This activity educated me in how businesses worked, how products were created, manufactured, advertised, the importance of customer relations, and so on. The knowledge was all revelatory and eventually very helpful to me. I try to follow my dad’s example and encourage my young kids by involving them in comics and our work. Griffin, age eight, and Grace, age six, are stupendous artists and writers. They made their own comic books and we had them printed up. They sold their comics alongside my books at a recent comic convention—to great success! Jim Steranko was there. He got copies of their comics and gave them some good advice: “Keep doing lots and lots of drawings. Don’t worry about what you draw, just fill stacks of paper, and have fun!” That was Steranko’s secret he shared with my kids! Griffin also chose the stories for the Ditko’s Monsters: Gorgo vs Konga comic book we just published. So Griffin

Top inset: Portrait of Craig Yoe by Kendall Whitehouse. Above: Various books produced by Craig’s imprint, Yoe Books. Left: Young Craig poses on one of his inventive dad’s notions. For farm tractors,“He came up with the ludicrous idea of a triangular tire!” Craig exclaimed. COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Summer 2019 • #20

incoming

Of Things Wood and Rude

Our letters col returns, with missives on the essay on Woody and Rude’s interview Write to CBC: jonbcooke@ aol.com or P. O. Box 204, West Kingston, RI 02892

[Ulp! Had to skip the letters column last time out, but glad to have it back! Keep sendin’ ’em cards ’n’ letters, people! — Ye Crusading Editor]

David J. Hogan

Received the digital copy of CBC #17 a week or so ago and the print issue today. Very pleased with what you and the team did with my Outré piece about Woody. Handsome layout — and I’m really taken with the decision to make the final art piece (which links to the piece’s final sentiment) a circular one. Striking and effective. Thanks for a faithful edit. Wood has meant a great deal to me for 50 years, so to see the article presented so smartly is a real treat. Thanks again, Jon, and to all at CBC, for a sterling job. [Thank you, David! Your essay was a godsend! — Y.E.]

Ian Millsted

Joe Frank An interesting twist with CBC #18: usually, the focus is more on history with a touch of philosophy included. Here, for once, in the Steve Rude discussion, just the opposite. More of an extended personal viewpoint with occasional instances of comic book doings thrown in. As it was, seemingly, a one-time experiment, it was a novel change. Shows there’s more than one way to do an interview. Interest14

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

The World of TwoMorrows © TwoMorrows Publishing. Photo by and © Dan Greenfield.

Above: Ye Ed is helming the celebration of the 25 th anniversary of co-editor John Morrow’s publishing company, The World of TwoMorrows, coming this fall. Dig Tom McWeeny’s simply fantastic cover art! Below: Earlier this year, Cliff Galbraith, who runs the East Coast ComiCon and is a longtime pal of Ye Ed, suggested we team to start a new award sporting this magazine’s name. Thus, with great pleasure, I was honored to present the superb George Pérez with the Comic Book Creator Lifetime Achievement Award, at the New Jersey show, on May 16, 2019.

Interesting and poignant that the issue with the piece about Wally Wood [in CBC #17] was also the one that coincided with the news of the death of Flo Steinberg. I really enjoyed David Hogan’s bio-essay about Wood. I first became aware of Wood’s work through the U.K. editions of Marvel Comics in the mid-’70s, only later becoming aware of his work for EC and others. The work I would like to have read more about, as I’ve never seen a copy or much of the work from it, is witzend. Clearly never a money-spinner for Wood, but it would have been interesting to explore how he selected the people who contributed etc. I do have a copy of the Sky Masters collection and concur with Hogan about the quality of the work of Kirby and Wood combined on that. A high-water mark if ever there was one. I did think that Hogan was a little unfair on Marie Severin. His reference to her as “a lesser pencil artist,” while he refers to Ross Andru as “more cartoony” stood out, especially as the point he is trying to make is essentially the same. I’d be interested to see copies of Marie’s uninked work on The Cat to see if the criticism holds water. My instinct, having seen the issues of that series inked by others is that she did a great job. I appreciate you were packing a lot into this issue but it would have been nice to see some of those Wood covers at a larger size. (And nice to see the Ditko Superman page at magazine size.)

ing to read, even in various instances where I vigorously disagreed. Steve Rude, thankfully, included the notation that it was just what he thought and no one else need agree or follow along. The wonderful art examples shown reinforced what a talented artist he is, many I’d not seen previously. The Wonder Woman examples had such a humanity and warmth to them. Amusingly, if DC didn’t care for his renditions of Superman or Batman, echoing back to the earliest versions, that makes him more reverent to the characters, as created, than the company calling the shots. I could better understand it if DC were doing only one rendition of the characters or emphasized a singular vision. That’s far from the case. Many of the company-approved alterations look to actively undermine or radically reinterpret the heroes. Many of the re-imaginings don’t honor what came before. In fact, they undercut/contradict it. So, how a rendition that honors the original interpretation is a problem is puzzling. Still, their company and characters to do with as they wish, no matter what we might think of the dubious results. That’s why I don’t bother reading them any longer. The names are often the only tie to the characters I remember. What’s sad is though Steve tried to do new characters — his own — in the direct market, the response may not have made it feasible. That, to me, is a shame. If a talented creator is willing to try something distinctive or intriguing — introducing and developing new characters rather than taking something existing in an incompatible direction — fans should respond with curiosity and, hopefully, encouragement. That isn’t always the case. In a better market, seasoned pros like Steve and numerous others would be actively welcome to create and be treated as an asset rather than waiting vainly for scripts and assignments. If that’s what treatment long-time pros receive, where’s their incentive to stay or for younger talent to expect any better? Also thought it interesting when Steve was asked about attending Comic Con and said he wasn’t doing so at present. With such huge gatherings being increasingly less focused on actual comic books and the people behind them, in comparison to movie promotion, film celebrities and costuming, where’s the gain for a creator to sit around all weekend waiting for interaction or appreciation? I know, as a fan, it’s been about ten years since the crowds and congestion made it personally intolerable. While I echo Steve’s fondness for Kirby art and Jack personally, I disagree with his view that Steve Ditko art was “ugly.” Complete divergence there. It was distinctive and fun. So many Ditko character designs and faces were perfect. I wouldn’t have traded Jonah Jameson or the Vulture for handsome leading men types. They worked so well because they were character actors. As for Rich Buckler’s Deathlok, interesting how even as a then-new character, editors told him what could and couldn’t be done with it. Why not let a new creator experiment or develop a series in a personal or unique way? As a book striving to achieve a new identity and approach, why rein it in needlessly? Especially as it wasn’t connected to existing books or concepts. If everything today is unified, across the line, there were and are other options. Rich, in the interview, seemed quite proud of his accomplishment.

a chat with joltin’ joe

The Great Sinnott

Bob “Mr. Media” Andelman’s interview with the superb Mr. Joseph Sinnott!

Editor’s note: Great Godfrey! Ye Ed has long planned to finally make his long-promised sojourn to Saugerties, New York, and take Joe Sinnott out for Sunday brunch and to talk about the Joltin’ One’s fondly-recalled Treasure Chest work in the 1960s and other fun stuff. But, alas, when it came time to take a drive up the Hudson Valley, it was the dead of winter — the same time of year when Sinnott the Snowbird waits out the season and soaks up the rays in sunny Florida! We promise, God willing, to catch up with the genial gent this spring and feature our Sinnott Sunday Brunch chat next ish. In the meantime, CBC pal Bob “Mr. Media” Andelman kindly shared his convo with Joe! Inset right: At convention appearances, “Joltin’” Joe Sinnott offered prints of this selfportrait of the artist surrounded by Marvel characters. Below: For Jack Kirby’s surprise 70 th birthday party in 1987, Joe drew up this centerspread tribute for a commemorative booklet.

[When you spend your professional career interviewing famous people, there are always a few that stand out in your memory. I’ve been a comic book fan since the mid-1960s. I love comics. In fact, I wrote the only authorized biography of Will Eisner — Will Eisner: A Spirited Life — and when I started interviewing people about Will, he handed me his handwritten Rolodex and said, “Call anyone you want.” Hello, Neal Adams. Hello, Stan Lee. And so on. So, when I started hosting and producing the Mr. Media® Interviews podcast [https://MrMedia.com] in 2007, I was always on the lookout for comics-related interviews. One day that July, comics historian Tim Lasiuta reached out and told me about the oral history he wrote, Brush Strokes of Greatness: The Life & Art of Joe Sinnott. I said if “Joltin’” Joe would do an interview, I was in. What you’re about to read is the result of that phone interview. I remember it like it was yesterday because it was so damn cool talking to Joe. The man was there when the Marvel Universe was germinating and he was a delightful conversation partner. — Bob Andelman.] Bob Andelman: Let’s start with a general point of information. What on Earth does a comic book inker actually do, and how do you explain your career to the layman? Joe Sinnott: Well, actually, it’s all I ever did. I drew from the time I was three years old, I can remember, and it’s the only thing I knew. All my brothers could build houses, they could do all that. I couldn’t drive a nail, but I could draw, and I drew all the time. I drew on paper bags, whatever I had. Things were tough growing up in the Thirties, but we made the best of it, and it paid off in the long run, I guess. Bob: What is the difference, for someone who doesn’t know, between someone who does pencils and someone

who does inking? Joe: Well, there’s all types of penciling, Bob. Years ago, most of the artists used to pencil thoroughly and complete pencils, put the blacks in and everything, and it progressed down to the point where a lot of the artists would pencil very loosely like a thumbnail sketch, and the inker, if he was capable, was required to finish the art. So he really was a finisher. Not all artists can do this, but some can, and fortunately, I was able to. Of course, the first 12, 13 years I was with Marvel, I did my own pencils and inks, and that’s the way I used to like it. But that was a different world back then. Bob: When did it change for you? When did you stop focusing on penciling? Joe: Well, I started at Marvel in 1950, with Stan Lee. It was Timely Comics back in those days. And, around 1961, Jack Kirby didn’t do his own inking, and he asked me if I could fill in and [ink] a Jack Kirby. He couldn’t find anyone to ink it, and so I inked it, and Stan liked it quite a bit. He liked the combination. So it progressed from there and Stan just kept sending me more Jack Kirby stuff, and I felt I could make as much inking as I could penciling, so I proceeded to ink primarily for Stan. Of course, I had other accounts, Treasure Chest and Dell and whatever, and there I did my own pencils and inks. Bob: I wondered if you could actually make as much inking as penciling. I would have guessed not, but from what you say, I guess you could. Joe: It seemed like I could, maybe because I was a faster inker than I was a penciler. A lot of times with penciling you had to research and do things like that, which used up a little of your time, but it never seemed to be a problem with me. The inking came very easily.

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

All characters TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. Artwork © Joe Sinnott.

Interview conducted by BOB ANDELMAN

darrick patrick’s ten questions

Sakai's Ronin Rabbit

Our Man Patrick poses ten questions for Stan Sakai, the creator of Usagi Yojimbo by DARRICK PATRICK Stan Sakai is a professional artist/writer who is best known as the creator of the comic series Usagi Yojimbo. Along with his lettering credits, his work can also be found in The Adventures of Nilson Groundthumper and Hermy, 47 Ronin, Groo the Wanderer, Space Usagi, Riblet, Bart Simpson's Treehouse of Horror, Critters, Spider-Man Sunday newspaper strip, etc. Darrick Patrick: What was the journey that led you to a career as an author/illustrator? Stan Sakai: I always enjoyed drawing and telling stories as far back as I remember, so it was no surprise that I became an art major. They did not teach sequential art back then as they do now though. The closest I could get was a fine arts degree in drawing and painting. That did not teach me storytelling, but I did learn anatomy and color theory, which helps me today. Darrick: Who are some of the people that greatly influenced you while growing up? Stan: My parents, of course, though they did think I spent too much time with comic books. I think the validation came when I did a book signing at a comic store in Hawaii, where I grew up. My dad came to see what it was about, but the store was so crowded he could not get in. My wife, Sharon, was a great support. Without her, I would not have even attempted doing freelance artwork. There were a group of us wannabe comic book artists starting out and we would make our own comics and pass them around to enjoy and critique. The late Dave Thorne was a mentor to so many Hawaiian cartoonists. He was the first of us to make the journey to the San Diego Comic-Con. This was almost 40 years ago. He came back with stories of hanging out with Jack Kirby and Sergio Aragonés, riding to L.A. with the Kuberts in their RV, being invited to the Disney Studios, etc. Eventually, all of us make the trek to Comic-Con. I have been attending now for 36 years. Darrick: Do you have any words of advice for other individuals looking to make a career

with their artistic abilities? Stan: Assuming that you already have the ability, the best advice I can give is to network. Get to know your peers and people in the industry. It is easier now than ever before with the internet and comic conventions. Show your work to others. People like you starting out, established artists, writers, editors, and publishers. People like to work with guys they know or whose work they have seen.

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Usagi Yojimbo is TM & © Stan Sakai. Stan Sakai portrait by Emi Fujii.

Darrick: How do you spend your time on a typical workday? Stan: I live in the Los Angeles area. I get up early, and usually go hiking in the mountains about a 15-minute drive away. I do some shopping, then work about eight or nine hours with the TV on. Darrick: For new readers who may not be familiar with your work, what are some projects of yours that you would recommend to begin with? Stan: Usagi is pretty reader-friendly, so you can pick up any of the 30 or so collected books and get caught up fairly quickly. There isn't much back-story you need to know aside from, “Usagi is

secret origin of free comic book day

The Idea That Saved Comics Comic shop retailer Joe Field blames the whole idea for FCBD on Baskin-Robbins! Inset right: In mid-2001, comic shop owner Joe Field came up with an idea that significantly impacted the direct market. In an article for the trade publication Comics & Games Retailer, the retailer wrote, under the headline, “The Power of Free,” about shop owners offering gratis comics one day a year to entice new and lapsed readers into the fold. Here’s Joe sharing his enthusiasm at his Flying Colors comic shop during a FCBD a few years ago. Below: The first page of the retailer’s article also included a positive response from Diamond Comic Distributors, which offered to solicit feedback from their extensive list of accounts. (Cover repro is representative.)

by JON B. COOKE [Maybe our headline is a bit overstated, but those who recall the perpetual boom and bust cycles of comics in the past, with periods of wild speculation and media frenzy inevitably followed by the closing of hundreds of shops due to low sales, know the precarious modern history of the American comic book industry. But since the advent of Free Comic Book Day some 18 years ago, overall the field has had steady, pragmatic, and widening growth, and the effort FCBD provides to retailers — to welcome new readers young and old to the form with the enticement of free comics — certainly is one reason. Yours truly interviewed the idea’s originator, Joe Field of Flying Colors Comics and Other Cool Stuff, a few years back (a talk that appeared in my short-lived ACE: All Comics Evaluated mag in early 2015). This was transcribed by “Flash” Thompson. — Y.E.]

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Comics Retailer TM & © the respective copyright holder.

Comic Book Creator: Joe, can you tell us the story behind Free Comic Book Day? Joe Field: One day [in 2001] I saw a line in front of the Baskin-Robbins next door to my comic book store and, realizing that comics are a whole lot cooler than ice cream, I got to thinking we could do the same thing with comics. Instead of a free scoop, we could give free comics. I took that idea and wrote a column about it for an industry trade publication and, to my complete surprise, everyone loved the idea and wanted to make it happen. It was published in Comics and Games Retailer, which was published by Krause Publications [also publisher of The Comics Buyer’s Guide]. It was an industry trade magazine, so it wasn’t on the stands. CBC: How did you hear the response? Joe: Well, knowing that I’d written columns for a number of years, response was always a very delayed — I’d write a column one month, it would be published the next month, and there would be another few months before we’d get any response — so I thought this idea was probably a little bit too good to wait that long to try to make things happen. So I got permission from the editor at that time to get response before the article saw print, and print them alongside in the same issue, and that response was very instantaneous and positive. CBC: What was the appeal of the

idea and what was the reason for it? Joe: We had just come through some difficult years in the ’90s and things were really turning around. All of a sudden a lot more creative things were being done in comics and the general feeling was that things were going really good except we had no mechanism to invite new people in to see what was going on. So this was seen as a way to just give an invitation to everyone to visit their local comic shops. CBC: Did you outlay a specific plan for dealing with outside media and what it became? Joe: I laid out some parameters for what I wanted to see, not so much in terms of the outreach (although that was a part of it), but a lot of what I originally intended came through. It just worked on a lot of different levels that way. CBC: So what was the plan? Joe: The idea was essentially best foot forward and every which way we could do that. Initially there were only a few publishers involved — Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, Image, and Oni, I think, were the original ones — and it was basically “best foot forward.” Give us something we can give away that is a complete reading experience and that will make people want to come back and read more. That’s really how it’s worked. It’s not a matter of giving away samplers where, you know, you’ve got the first five pages of the story and you have to jump over to something else to read the rest of it. It’s been about giving a full scoop of cool stuff. CBC: I don’t know if the public is aware of what the process is. Can you explain it? It’s not per se that the publisher’s giving free comics to the retailers, right? Joe: Correct. What happens is that there’s a process for this now every year since we’re going into the 14th year. Publishers apply to be FCBD suppliers. They fill out an application that tells us what their comic is going to be, how much it’s going to cost, the creative content, what they’re gonna do to promote it — not only to the comics world, but to the outside world — and then all of those submissions are sent to a committee of retailers which I spearhead. We then go through all of these applications and make decisions on which ones are accepted into FCBD. There is a maximum of 50 comics chosen for FCBD. That breaks down to 12 for what we call “Gold Level,” and those are the ones that every participating store will have available. Then the “Silver Level,” titles that are sort of smörgåsbord types. Stores can pick and choose what they bring in for the day. CBC: Why would some titles not make the cut? Joe: That’s not information that I can really give out. What I would say is that this year there were 69 titles that were in the application process, and those needed to be whittled down to 50. And some of the criteria for what gets in and what doesn’t is marketability — what the track record of the title is, for instance, and the track record of the publisher. Is it something that has an audience? Can it be a whole lot wider than it currently is? Does it reach a different

Interview Conducted by Jon B. Cooke 38

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Dawn, art TM & © Joseph Michael Linsner.

In 2010, asked what was the best investment he ever made in life, Joseph Michael Linsner, the Queens, New York-born creator of Cry for Dawn, told an interviewer, “All the thousands of dollars that I spent on comic books in my youth. They made me the man and the artist I am today.” And, before and since, Joe’s gratitude has never faded. In the following interview, he confesses, “I loved comics so much that my lifelong dream was to be a comic book artist. I feel so lucky that I’ve been able to make that happen.” All well said, but it was more than luck that got Joe to where he is today.

Dawn, art TM & © Joseph Michael Linsner.

Truth to tell, hard work and tenacity — and a massive amount of exceptional talent — has brought Joe to the top of his game today. Most mind-blowing is the fact that he is an entirely self-taught artist! From the start, Joe has been tethered to two women. The first is his signature creation, Dawn, who started as a mere host for a horror anthology, and he continues to write and draw her exploits in this, the 30th year since her debut. The other woman? Among the first to buy his first comic book, back in the summer of 1989, Kristina Deak, who is now happily married to the guy!

Transcription by Rose Rummel-Eury COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Summer 2019 • #20

This page: Clockwise from above are Joe Linsner’s grade school ID; Joe proudly displays his mural artwork in 1978; the Linsner boys, George, Joseph, and William, in 1977; 1984 drawing by Joe of “Adam Hunter”; and 1984 photo of Joe taken in his mom’s kitchen.

old when I saw that. CBC: How was Queens? Was it city-like or suburban? Joe: We lived in a very small, one-bedroom apartment. My two brothers and I slept in the bedroom and my parents slept in the living room on a fold-open couch. It was pretty urban. I got mugged as a kid. I had a guy put a knife to my throat. CBC: How old were you? Joe: I was around seven. I’d gotten some money for Easter and me and my older brother went to go buy a Mego action figure, which I wanted. We were standing outside the department store and I was counting my money. These older kids came by and one of them put his knife to my throat and I wouldn’t let go of my money. I told him to get lost! My brother almost fainted, but I wouldn’t let go. Finally the kids realized it wasn’t worth it and they left us alone. CBC: [Chuckles] Was it a typical childhood? You watched TV and…? Joe: Oh, yeah. Every day, I lived for Batman. I think my love of Batman came from Adam West, more so than from the comic books. It came on five days a week, Batman was on and I would levitate watching Batman. It was the coolest thing in the universe. CBC: Did you get a chance to go to Manhattan — into the city? Joe: I remember my mom taking us to see different things at Radio City Music Hall, like at Christmas, there’d be some big thing. Aside from that, not too much. CBC: For you, when did comics come into play? Joe: I can’t remember my very first comic book. I was “reading” them before I could actually read, just absorbing the story through the pictures. My mom would take us shopping and we’d stop at a newsstand and my mother would say, “Okay, you guys can get something.” My brother was into baseball cards, so he’d get a pack of cards and I’d get a comic book. I’d always get Batman or something like that. I can’t even remember the first one because they were just always there. CBC: In a chronology you wrote for me, you pointed out your first Conan the Barbarian comic. [laughter] Joe: My father was an electrician and he had a friend come over for dinner one night, who was a younger guy and something of a hippie. My father told him I read comic books and he brought me a copy of his favorite comic, which was Conan. I had never heard of Conan and at first I thought his name was “Co-man,” because everyone in comics was a “man”: “Superman,” “Spider-Man”… it took

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Photos © Joseph Michael Linsner. Adam Hunter TM & © Joseph Michael Linsner..

Comic Book Creator: Joe, where does the name Linsner come from? What’s your family’s ethnic background? Joseph Michael Linsner: Linsner is a German name. My father was German and my mother was Irish. My mother’s maiden name was Breen and both families came to America around the turn of the century, I think. Both my parents were from Astoria, Queens, and they met in the early ’60s, got married, and had three kids, and — tah-dah — here I am! CBC: Where are you among the siblings? Joe: I’m the middle kid. I have a brother who is three years older and a brother five years younger. CBC: All boys, huh? Joe: All boys, so there was plenty of fighting and crashing downstairs; all that stuff. CBC: Were your parents creative at all? Joe: When I was growing up, my parents did needlepoint and crocheting, but part of me thinks my mother was a frustrated artist. From the time I was four years old, my mother really encouraged me to do the arts thing. Maybe in a different life, my mother would have pursued art, or maybe she got it out vicariously through me. CBC: So, she would speak encouraging words to you about your work and support you? Joe: Yeah, from a young age, I remember her sitting me down and saying, “You should watch this,” [the movie] The Agony and the Ecstasy… Michelangelo painting the Sistine Chapel. It really blew me away. I must have been five or six years

It’s page after page after page of drawing. I was a different artist after drawing that first one. There were all sorts of artistic muscles I didn’t know I was going to need. I didn’t know that until after drawing that first comic book. CBC: When you first started going to the conventions, did you seek out professional artists’ advice who were already working and try to get a sense of the life of a comic book artist, or were you totally romanticizing it? Joe: I did talk to other pros. Some people were incredibly generous and supportive… Steve Bissette… I owe so much to Steve Bissette! He was the guy who told me I should just self-publish my own comic book. He laid out the exact nuts and bolts of how you publish. I had the misconception that a lot of people have: that you print one up and then you sell it. He said, “No, you put it in the catalog first, then you get your orders, and then you print it.” That was a revelation. That was amazing. Steve was kind enough to write the introduction to Cry for Dawn #1. CBC: Wow! That’s very supportive. Joe: He’s a great guy. There’s a place in heaven for Steve Bissette. And the black & white tonal work he did for Marvel in Epic and Bizarre Adventures totally rocked my world. I adore that stuff. CBC: He clued you into the realities of working in the industry, right? Joe: Yeah. CBC: Right. So you circumvented that at an opportune time. On Earth II, in a parallel universe: Say Joe got a job at Marvel. Do you think you’d be as happy? Joe: Um. I’ve often thought about that. I think part of me would have been happy, but always, in the back of my head, I’d probably be dreaming about doing my own thing. I remember talking to Mark Texeira about this, and he said, “Wow, how did you do your own thing? That’s so courageous!” I said, “I did my own thing because I couldn’t get a job at Marvel! I gladly would’ve sold out, but they didn’t want me! So, I was forced to do my own thing.” They wouldn’t give me The X-Men, so I was forced to do my own thing! CBC: Right. How did you start zeroing in what that “thing” was? What was the genesis of bringing that into focus? Did you toy with other concepts? Were you thinking up things all the time? What was the process like for you? Joe: Well, I’ve always had my own characters and my own storylines. CBC: What were they? Joe: Pretty much what has ended up in the Dawn comic books. When I was younger, I had different super-heroes, like all little kids have ridiculous super-heroes they come up with. But, the stuff that really took root, I put in to Dawn comics. I’ve always loved anthologies. Growing up, I loved Creepy and Eerie and the fantastic work in those books. So, when the idea of doing a comic book came up, it was, “Let’s do a horror anthology.” Doing a couple of short stories seemed easier than doing an ongoing storyline. Cry for Dawn was supposed to be a one-shot anthology. It was supposed to only be one issue, but nothing else was happening after the first issue, so “Okay, let’s do some more.” CBC: Right. How did the character come about? Joe: The character Dawn came about from a drawing I had done in a sketchbook of a girl covering her face. She had a corset on with a skull lace pattern. The whole drawing, the reason I drew it… I had the idea for the skull lace pattern. If you’re going to draw lace, it has to go on a body. It started with the lace pattern and then I drew this girl and to give her a sense of mystery, I had one arm covering her face. This drawing really connected with my friends. Any-

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Vargas artwork © the respective copyright holder. Continüm Presents TM & © the respective copyright holder. Dawn TM & © Joseph Michael Linsner. Artwork © JML.

Above: Alberto Vargas was renowned for his pin-up artistry in the pages of Playboy magazine. This piece is from Esquire, Feb. 1946. Inset center: JML’s first published comic book work appeared in Continüm Presents #1 [Oct. 1988]. Below: JML’s first drawing of his signature character, Dawn, was featured in his late 1980s sketchbook.

official girlfriend until after high school. CBC: How long did you live at home? Joe: I didn’t move out until my early 20s, after I’d already started publishing. Right after high school, I got a day job, and mom insisted on rent. She made us pay $200 a month. It’s still puny, but it’s something. CBC: That’s a lot for living at home! You’d sold commissions in high school. You admired people who were independent and held on to their own material. Here you are, graduating high school, not going to college… what did you want to achieve? Joe: Well, I dreamt of someday drawing my favorite characters, getting into either at Marvel or DC. I would put together samples and go to the conventions in New York and show my stuff and try to take feedback. I met a couple of very nice editors. CBC: Who did you meet? Joe: I remember having a great conversation with Jim Owsley, who, I think, goes by the name Christopher Priest these days. I think that’s the same guy. He was very encouraging. When you’re that young, getting a bit of positive encouragement counts for so much. Knowing that something is possible and if you keep trying, something might happen. So, I’d show my stuff around. I set up the first time at Creation Con, at Thanksgiving, in 1987. My girlfriend got me that spot. She was friends with a guy in the comic book store that Creation had in Long Island. She asked, “My boyfriend is an artist, is there any chance you’d give him a table?” I showed them my stuff and they were kind enough to give me a table. That was the first time I set up and was doing sketches. It was at that show that I met some guys putting out a black-&-white comic book, a thing called The Foton Effect, which wasn’t very good, but I found out from them how much it cost to print a comic book. At the time, you could get 5,000 copies of a black-&-white comic book with a color cover printed for $1,500. I think at my day job, I was bringing home $160 after taxes and I thought, “Wow! I could save up enough to pay for the printing a comic book.” I talked to a friend who also liked comic books and said, “Hey, let’s do a comic book.” And that was the genesis of Cry for Dawn #1, which eventually came out in December 1989. It took me over a year to actually draw the first issue. I always say that it takes an awful lot of work to draw a comic book, so I try and cut new guys a little slack when they show me their first homemade effort. Just getting something done takes a huge effort, let alone something good. It’s like running a marathon.

This page: Joe was requested by Dark Horse to change his original Conan #2 [Mar. 2004] composition (above) to a more aggressive stance (below).

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Conan TM & © Conan Properties International LLC.

Faust is an X-rated super-hero comic. I’m friends with those guys and they totally know what they were up to. If someone went to Cry for Dawn expecting the same cheap thrills they got with Faust, I think they would be really let down. I don’t think we ever had excessive gore or nudity. It certainly never went anywhere near being X-rated. If anything, it was an R-rated level. Like I said earlier, I would never draw anything I wouldn’t show to my mom! My mom saw every issue of Cry for Dawn. But, yeah, some of it was pretty strong. CBC: Do you see the recent wave of political correctness as a sea change and there’s a possibility that people will look back at your work and treat it differently? Is it a concern? Does it bother you? Do you think about it? Joe: I don’t dwell on it. I do think America has gone crazy with the political correctness. It truly is dumb. I remember when Carrie Fisher died, Steve Martin made a tweet that she was one of the “most beautiful creatures I had ever seen.” These lunatics jumped all over him for describing her as a “creature.” If you have a brain at all, you’d realize that for hundreds of years, people have been describing beautiful people that way. That made me want to scream; it’s so stupid. In terms of Cry for Dawn, I don’t know if I’d be able to… first of all, I don’t want to do horror stories right now. If I put out that stuff now, I might get jumped on; I might get lynched by the politically-correct mob! It’d be kind of scary if that happened now. CBC: The spiritual nature… the good and the evil, the angels and the devils… this whole ethereal realm that your character was getting involved in… did that just emerge out of you naturally? Was it intentional? Did it surprise you that you were getting into these big, epic themes? Joe: Well, like I said, my favorite movie is Excalibur. It has these big epic themes, concepts, and visuals, so I’ve always had a love for that type of material. As a teenager, I discovered Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse, which is probably my favorite book. It’s a retelling of the story of the Buddha. I re-read Siddhartha every year, just like Dune, another favorite. The first book that made my world open up was Mythology, by Edith Hamilton. I read that when I was a little kid and that stuff really appealed to me and spoke to the core of my being. My mother raised us to be Catholic, but she wasn’t strict. A lot of that never meant anything to me… it was just white noise, but getting into different world mythologies, that spoke to me and opened up my world. So, after getting the venom out of my soul through Cry for Dawn — doing these intense stories — there was a conscious decision to do something more positive. I remember people saying, “Wow, man, Cry for Dawn was really intense. You guys are messed up!” I thought, “That died so young. Angry because I didn’t was not my whole world.” With Dawn, I get the scholarship and angry bewanted to get closer to what I’m really cause… because I was angry! I rememinterested in. As Joseph Campbell would ber showing my work to different editors say, “follow your bliss.” and I felt that I had something to contribCBC: That was with Drama? What was ute and I was angry because I wasn’t your first new… getting away from Cry getting more positive response. So, over for Dawn Productions and you’re going the course of doing nine issues of Cry to retain a character… what was the first thing? for Dawn, I think I got a lot of that anger out of my system. Joe: The first thing was Drama. It’s a collection of three At the end, I wasn’t as angry because I was finally getting my work into print; I was getting it out there. So after Cry for short stories and actually the first story in there, “PsyDawn, I focused on Dawn. Dawn is about rebirth and about chobabble,” was supposed to be in Cry for Dawn #10, but we had our falling out, me and Joe Monks, so that never choosing a more positive spiritual path. The Cry for Dawn happened. I colorized it and it became Drama. Drama is the stuff… that was the negativity, the venom being pulled out of my soul. Whenever I’ve looked through that stuff, I’m still springboard for Lucifer’s Halo, the first Dawn color series. CBC: Did you map out this mythical realm of Dawn? You’re surprised by how angry it is. It’s some very dark stuff. creating your own mythology, right? CBC: Did you get negative reactions at all when it first Joe: Yeah, and picking and choosing from other world came out? There was sexuality in the material; it is comics mythologies, which, ultimately, is what everybody does. and it was the late ’80s, early ’90s… Joe: A lot of people would lump Cry for Dawn in with Faust, Everyone picks and chooses the things that appeal to them and connect with their psyche. Even if someone says, “X is by Tim Vigil and David Quinn. Let’s call a spade a spade:

Red Sonja TM & © Red Sonja LLC.

my religion,” they might pull things from other religions and not even realize it. CBC: Exactly. Did you do a lot of conventions in those early years? Joe: Oh, yeah. CBC: How many weekends out of a year? Joe: Gosh, sometimes as many as 20 or 30 in the old Cry for Dawn days. CBC: How did you ever work, Joe? Joe: Actually Cry for Dawn Productions did suffer from that. We’d never be home long enough to work on the books. These days, I try to keep it down to around 10 conventions a year. CBC: Right. The industry’s been supportive of you and the distributors have been supportive of you…? Was it a struggle or were you well-received? How did it go? Joe: Yeah, actually, the distributors have been supportive and encouraging. It’s gotten a lot of good play over the years. I’ve been very lucky. I don’t know who else in comic books has walked a similar path. CBC: It’s definitely an interesting road that you’ve taken, but certainly in the last 15 or 20 years, you’ve been spending a lot of time going in and out of the mainstream with the big guys and retaining your own… working with Image and Dynamite… Did you contribute much to other people’s projects? You mentioned the anthologies. They’re always going on here and there and rarely make any money, but did you want to do that? Would it have been ideal? Joe: Yeah. I see different anthologies come out all the time and I’d love to do more. I don’t get asked often enough to do short stories. DC will put out anthologies and I’d love to contribute; I’d love to get asked to do more. CBC: What genres have you not worked in? Joe: I’ve never done a cowboy story. CBC: I thought so. Joe: [Chuckles] One of these days, I will because I have stories I have to get out there. I’ve never done a period piece, like a ’40s noir. I think that would be a lot of fun. CBC: Have you done war? Joe: Yes, actually, in Cry for Dawn there was one story that had flashbacks to WWII. There was a couple of pages of war stuff. CBC: Who is Dawn? Joe: Good question! Dawn is my take on the classic goddess figure, the Venus figure who is the source of all life and inspires men to do more, to keep going. Dawn is part-Merlin, the way Merlin will aid Arthur, inspire him, and allow him room to make mistakes on his own and learn from them. A large part of Dawn does the exact same thing with Darrian Ashoka, who is the protagonist in the Dawn comics. Dawn is all my thoughts about the feminine ideal, the feminine mystique… they all come together in Dawn. The Dawn comics have a post-apocalyptic setting because I like the idea of Earth’s surface being wiped clean, and then reinventing the gods. Some gods will survive, and some will fade away. Old gods will return and they’ll have to fight it out. In the middle of that is basically a love story between Dawn and Darrian, the shadow and the light. Part of him would like to avoid the whole mess, but she knows what is good for him and pulls him into the heart of it all. She is his inspiration. CBC: What was the name of your initial model? Joe: A number of ladies have tried to make the claim, but Dawn isn’t based on anyone specific. Dawn is a combination of Ann-Margret, part Marilyn Monroe, part Sophia

Loren, part Ava Gardner, part Vargas girl — the icons that made a strong impact on me. I took all these icons, put them in a blender… and out came Dawn! That’s why she’s perpetually changing and perpetually becoming someone new all the time. If I had to draw Dawn in one specific look, like Wonder Woman, I probably would’ve stopped drawing her a long time ago. My own tastes and interests are constantly changing and evolving, so Dawn reflects that. CBC: She has very specific… ummm… attributes. Her physique: is that based on a real person? Joe: No. CBC: Idealized? Joe: Just my ideal, and I’ve kind of Frankensteined her together from these icons.

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#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Above: Dawn piece by Joe from 2015. Below: Cover art for the first issue of Claws [2006], drawn by Joe. That Marvel mini-series was written by Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray.

CBC: Did you ever recoup some of what they owed you? Joe: I sued and there was a settlement, but it wasn’t anything like what I was owed. CBC: I’m astonished to hear Dawn #1 sold 158,000 copies! Joe: Yeah! That month, it outsold, I think, both Superman and Batman. That was the mid-’90s and the streets were paved with gold. It was a very different industry back then. I believe the numbers went like this: For Cry for Dawn #1, our initial orders were for 6,000 copies and, by the time it died, it was at 24,000 copies. When I did Drama, the numbers were around 56,000 copies, and the year after Drama, the first issue of Dawn came out and it more or less tripled. All through the Cry for Dawn years, people said, “Hey, I want to see the redhead; I want to see stories with her.” So, I think there was this long drum-roll of anticipation starting in 1989 and leading up to 1995 with the first issue of Dawn came out. And it worked! [laughter] CBC: That’s really incredible, in the mid-’90s, that you had an incredible three or four years there of success and recognition. You were nominated for two Eisner Awards for “Best Cover Artist” and “Best Special Project.” You have this hugely selling book that is outselling Superman. Your publisher, Sirius, won the Gem Award. Did it go to your head? Joe: No, I don’t think so. Like I said, I’ve always had this core group of friends around me and anytime I’m getting out of line, or acting like a jerk, they’ll let me have it. I don’t think it went to my head. If you ask other people, they might have a different opinion. [chuckles] I’ve always tried to just be obsessed with the work. The fact that it goes out there and gets read by the people is almost an extra benefit. For me, the joy is doing the work itself. CBC: The money was coming in? Joe: Yeah, those years were pretty lucrative. CBC: Were you able to sock it away? Were you able to buy a house? Joe: I eventually bought a nice house, which I still live in. CBC: Where is it? Joe: It’s just outside of Atlanta, Georgia. I bought down here because I could get more for my money. I always loved the city of Atlanta, so once I left New York, I wanted to live out in the woods, so I love where I am… although I do miss civilization! I think sometimes, I’m a little too into the woods. CBC: How did the rest of the ’90s go? Joe: Things were good with Sirius for a couple of years. I had a couple of fantastic projects out there. I always wanted a soundtrack for the Dawn comics. One good thing Robb Horan did… I said, “Robb, it would be great if we had a soundtrack for Dawn.” He said, “How about a Gary Numan soundtrack?” I was like, “Wow, would that be possible?” Through the glory of the internet, he was able to reach out Joe: I still have a lot of the old color keys from the old Cry to Gary Numan, who is famous for having done “Cars,” that for Dawn days. It’s amazing… the digital revolution. Publish- great single that came out in the early ’80s. Robb was a ing is so much easier these days. huge Numan fan and Numan consistently put out music that CBC: Sirius: did you get a salary? Did you have partial was never released in America. He had an album coming ownership? out in England, called Sacrifice, which had all these very Joe: In the beginning, I had partial ownership, but I traded similar themes to Dawn, all these angels and demons and that for a better percentage deal. Things worked out well mythological stuff. What Sirius did, they repackaged the with them for the first couple of years. They eventually hired Sacrifice album in the United States as Numan/Dawn and I other people to take care of the production duties, which did a lavishly illustrated booklet. It was a cheap thrill getting gave me more time to work on my own stuff. I never enjoyed to meet and hang out with Gary Numan a couple of times. being the production guy. Sirius… a lot of people thought He was a great guy! It was really cool. it was my company, because Cry for Dawn, when it went CBC: You had Randy Bowen who did a statue and Todd belly up, we were publishing five or six books and a couple McFarlane Toys did an action figure? of those came over to Sirius. Sirius inherited a readership Joe: Yeah, I got very lucky with that. I’ve since done Dawn and books that were already coming out and were already statues with Clayburn Moore and Diamond Select and Fewsuccessful. They hit the ground running. Sirius actually won ture Models, a Japanese company. I can’t count how many the Gem Award for “Best New Publisher,” in 1994 or 1995, Dawn statues there have been… probably 15 or so and when they started publishing. Life was good for a couple of there are plans to do even more! In fact, I just did one with years, there. Ultimately, they started playing funny games Dynamite that I’m very proud of. It came out last month. with the accounting. It got to be such a backlog of royalties CBC: How close is Dawn to being made into a movie? that I wasn’t getting paid, that as soon as my contract was Joe: There’ve been a few people who asked about rights up, I had to leave. over the years. But, anybody I’ve talked to, they didn’t get

The statuesque Kristina Deak-Linsner is, she tells us, her husband Joe Linsner’s “go-to” model — but only when he uses such reference. “He does not always,” she explains. “I have posed for some Vampirella and Lady Rawhide covers.” As we learned in Joe’s interview, they met back when Joe had only just started his comics career, but the two hit it off and, years later, finally committed to one another in wedlock. The following Q+A, conducted by Ye Ed, took place via email. Comic Book Creator: Where you from originally and were you creative at a young age? Where did you grow up? Kristina Deak-Linsner: I was originally born in San Pablo, California, but I quickly moved to the Philadelphia area and stayed there until my early thirties. Then I moved back to California for about 15 years. I have always operated on a steady diet of being creative since as long as I can remember. I’m the kid who used to make paper birds out of her straw wrappers in the backseat and fly them along the sky visible outside the car windows as we were driving. CBC: What role did movies and TV play in your creativity, if any? Did you read as a girl and did you have favorite books, movies, etc., which may relate to your current creative work? Kristina: I watched Saturday morning cartoons, followed by afternoon horror movies! Oh my, I couldn’t get enough of them. Mostly the old Hammer House of Horror and Roger Corman/Vincent Price movies, and anything they would play on the old Dr. Shock show (in reality, portrayed by magician Joseph Zawislak), in Philadelphia. I was three when it first aired, and my older cousins would come over and we were sat down in front of the TV. I solidly had the idea in my little-girl mind, of thinking that when I grew up someday I would look like one of the Hammer glamour girls. I was an avid reader of short stories, fiction, and sci-fi. I can proudly say that all of this helped to shape me into the cultured weirdo I am today. CBC: What was your family situation and were you encouraged to be creative and did you have any artist role models as a youngster? Kristina: Growing up it was just my father, mother, and myself. Being an only child, you would think I was spoiled, but my father wasn’t having any of that nonsense. I had many artistic role models growing up, everyone from Peter Max to Debbie Harry — and even my own father. I was very fortunate in that my creativity was encouraged by both parents from an early age. CBC: When did comics come into play? Please describe your interest in 64

comics at some length, as applicable. Kristina: I recall getting Gold Key and Harvey comics at a very young age — I think three or four…? (Pink Panther, Casper, Wendy the Good Little Witch, etc.) And my first glimpse of Vampirella was on a door poster when I was five, so I obviously had to find out more about her and got a few Warren magazines. But, when I was about nine, I absolutely fell in love with Frank Thorne’s run on Red Sonja and it led me to discover her back issues and also Conan. After that, I became an avid reader of comics and horror mags, even being fortunate enough to see Marvel’s Dark Phoenix Saga unfold. I bought the first issue (of many) of Heavy Metal, which introduced me to greats like Corben and H.R. Geiger. When I was in junior high, I was fortunate enough to have an English and homeroom teacher who was the granddaughter of Mary Shelley. She wound up taking away a copy of magazine that was highlighting the upcoming Frankenstein by Bernie Wrightston (as it was prior to ’83) all because it was “distracting” me during class. She gave me the book back a few days later, only after reading through it herself and commenting positively on the Frankenstein part. Right then, I knew I was on the path to good things. [Kristina later shared via email: I was actually able to relay that story to Bernie before he died. He genuinely seemed to get a real kick out of it and brought a big smile to his face.] CBC: Were you an artist in grade school and high school? If so, were you recognized as such among classmates and was there any impact? Kristina: I believe I was an artist as soon as I could pick up anything to make marks with. My father, in his spare time between working two jobs, tried his hand at gallery shows in New York and Pennsylvania, doing mainly landscapes. I would always set up in the basement alongside him with

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Interview conducted by JON B. COOKE [Regular Comic Book Creator readers are aware we conducted a career-spanning chat with masterful painter Joe Jusko in our last issue, but yours truly wanted to talk with the man about his "Marvel Corner Box" line of prints/variant covers I’ve seen. These captivating images recapture with enthusiasm what made the ’60s Marvel super-heroes so appealing, yet also enhanced with the modern-day Jusko hyper-realistic rendering. Great stuff! — Y.E.]

#20 • Summer 2019 • COMIC BOOK CREATOR

Comic Book Creator: Let’s talk Marvel, Joe! Tell us the story behind the corner boxes. Joe Jusko: Well, being a kid of the ’60s, the Marvel Comics, I have a real nostalgic feel for that whole period of comic art. I always loved those little corner box illustrations. I was doing various cover re-creations and commission pieces for people — ’60s covers — and I had planned to do a card set of cover re-creations of ’60s and ’70s Marvel and that never came to fruition. Somebody mentioned, at one point, “Have you ever considered recreating the corner boxes?” I had, but I had never had a real reason to do them. A collector had commissioned a couple off of me and I really enjoyed doing them. I decided I would mock them up as they would make really cool prints. I decided I’d do a whole series, starting with the ’60s corner boxes drawings and then I would mock them up as actual corner boxes and that’s actually how it came about. CBC: Was it an original idea? Had you heard of anyone else doing this before? Joe: No! That was the thing. When a friend commissioned a couple, I thought it was something I could definitely make mine being as how it would be the first time it being done. I was actually surprised that the idea had never been broached before. CBC: I remember talking with you and seeing them all spread out on a table and being absolutely blown away. Then, when I saw you again, you had even more. How many did you start with? Joe: My intention was to start with the ’60s boxes because those were the ones I grew up with and was the most fond of. By the time I got into the ’70s and they expanded the line, Marvel wasn’t using the corner ‘boxes’ anymore. If you remember, they had a big circle behind them and the figures didn’t quite fit into a box anymore. As far as prints, the actual ’60s boxes were the perfect size and proportion to

turn into prints. My original intent was to do all the ’60s boxes: Spider-Man, Cap, Hulk… all the major characters first; maybe a half-dozen. I used them as a cover photo on my Facebook page. People started to notice them. [Marvel publisher] Joe Quesada commented on them. I made prints of them. I mocked them all up as actual corner box prints, which was actually a bit of a pain because unless you have the actual comic to scan to get the corner box from, you have to be creative as to how you got what you needed. What I was doing was, I had the Marvel calendars that Asgard Press put out, and a bunch of my old comic collection, so as I was doing the boxes, I was trying to match whatever corner, whatever number issue matched whatever background color I picked. If you remember on the old corner boxes, the Marvel logo always matched what color that was behind the figure, so I had to make sure the logo matched color-wise and that meant having a specific issue of the comic. When I didn’t have it, that meant I had to cobble together a bunch of different boxes in Photoshop until I got what I needed. If I had a box from one of the Asgard calendars or one of the comics I had that matched the background color I chose, that was fine, but other times, I had to scan one corner box from one book, I had to adjust the color in Photoshop and would go and cobble together numbers from other corner boxes and patch them altogether. So, it was a bit of a pain sometimes to get the actual corner box correlation correct. It was a lot of work to “Frankenstein” them together. I had a banner of several of them on my Facebook page. I got an email from Marvel one day, “We saw something on your Facebook page that interested us and we’d like to talk to you about it.” [Jon chuckles] Uh, oh! Here we go! But I heard from Marvel and found out that they absolutely loved them! They loved the idea. They asked me to do an entire cover series for them because they were doing the whole retro Marvel thing a couple of years ago. I said, “Yeah, that sounds great!” That’s how they came about. I did them mainly as a vanity project for myself and then Marvel took notice of it and decided to run with it, which was really flattering. CBC: So, Joe Quesada emailed you and said, “Hey, this is cool”? Joe: Joe had commented on them on my Facebook page. So, I knew the guys from Marvel were seeing them, so I knew they thought they were cool. Then I got the inquiry from someone else in Marketing that does licensing and variant covers at Marvel. CBC: That’s pretty generous of Marvel! Joe: Yes, it is! I was happy that they kept me on. It doesn’t often work out this well. I was flattered that they loved what I was doing and asked me to do the rest. So then I segued COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Summer 2019 • #20

LY EE MA N JO E W HA TI F…

HAD LIVED? [EDITOR’S NOTE: There’s a cartoon depiction of three drunken artists, a drawing presumably by Marie Severin done in the mid-’50s. It shows Bill Everett and her brother John, each brandishing a liquor bottle and both holding up a guy named Joe, likely Joe Maneely, who is in such a state of inebriation that his feet are dragging behind him. It’s funny enough. At the time, those three legendary artists were mainstays in the Atlas Comics bullpen, all toiling hard for editor Stan Lee and, as John later related, “[W]hen we’d get paid, we’d go out and drink a lot.” But, in the wee hours of June 7, 1958, on his return home after a Friday night carousing with John and (we assume) Everett, things took a tragic turn when Maneely fell to his death from a New Jersey commuter train. He was only 32 years old. This happened before Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko were Stan Lee’s fair-haired boys, just prior to the birth of a new start for Atlas, when it would be renamed Marvel Comics and go on to phenomenal success. Before that fateful spring morning, Maneely, a lightning-fast and extraordinary artist, was Lee’s go-to guy. Thus, given the man’s age, talent, and dedication, it’s nearly impossible not to speculate what would have been Joe Maneely’s future starting at the dawn of the Marvel Age. The Atlas Comics expert and co-author of The Secret History of Marvel Comics, Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, makes a learned attempt for us to envision what might have been, what could have been, and maybe, just maybe, what should have been. — Ye Ed.]

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Ask anyone who reads and collects comic books today who was Joe Maneely and you’ll get a blank stare. Ask the question to someone with a marginal knowledge about comic book history and you may get a glimmer of recognition pertaining to Marvel’s old Black Knight series. That’s about it and that alone is due to the fact that Marvel reprinted some of those stories in the late 1960s and again in a recent Marvel Masterworks volume. What most people don’t realize is that with the stars aligned a little differently 61 years ago, the birth of the Marvel Universe as we know it may have been vastly different, or may not have occurred at all. Joe Maneely was Stan Lee’s star artist for most of the decade of the 1950s, during what is known as the Atlas period of Marvel Comics history. Atlas, a name derived from publisher Martin Goodman’s distribution company and easily identified by a small globe on the cover, was by far the industry leader in quantity of titles and issues published in the first three-quarters of the decade. With Lee as editor-in-chief, every imaginable type of comic book was published, flooding the market with score after score of books utilizing an industry-wide stable of freelancers, many of them comic book royalty. A little history first: By 1950, Timely’s hero titles, a major force during the boom years of World War II, were defunct. The early and middle part of decade of the 1940s saw the proliferation of hero titles like Marvel Mystery Comics, Captain America, Human Torch, Sub-Mariner, and others, as well as humor books (both funny

animal and “teen” type) saturating the stands. Teen titles eventually eclipsed the funny animal books and, by about 1946, even overtook the super-hero titles in sales and popularity. By 1947, with the ever-declining super-hero sales handwriting on the wall, Timely expanded into other genres. Crime was first, followed by Westerns, romance, and, by 1949, horror. There was a last attempt in 1948 to jump-start super-heroes again with the quick introduction of several new titles like Namora, Sun Girl, The Witness, Venus and Blackstone, but all except the ever-adaptable Venus were gone quickly. Creator-wise, Timely originally bought their features from the Lloyd Jacquet shop, Funnies Inc., (and would continue to get their “Human Torch” and “Sub-Mariner” features from there until the end of the war). Material was also bought from the Chesler shop and freelancers, but immediately Martin Goodman tried to wean shop-work away by starting an in-house staff. Simon and Kirby were the first two, followed by Syd Shores, Stan Lee, Don Rico, Mike Sekowsky, George Klein, Bill King, Allen Bellman, and ultimately scores of others throughout the decade. By mid-1942, two distinct bullpens were operating, one helping produce the myriad super-hero stories (self-referred to as “adventure artists”), the other turning out the humor titles (self-referred to as the “animators”). When Stan Lee went into the service in November, 1942, former Max Fleischer animation artist Vince Fago assumed the editor-in-chief mantle and this coincided with the aforementioned rise in humor titles as Fago himself drew numerous funny animal features. The initial humor foray began in mid-1942 and included Comedy Comics , Joker Comics, Krazy Komics and Terrytoon, the latter licensed from the Walt Terry Studio. Fago’s humor staff consisted of Chad Grothkopf, Dave Berg, Ernie Hart, Al Jaffee, Ed Winiarski, George Klein , Jim Mooney, Moe Worth, Mike Sekowsky, David Gantz, and others. Basil Wolverton freelanced long distance from Washington state. Private Stan Lee even continued to send in humor scripts from where he was stationed state-side, in North Carolina and Astoria, New York. Following the war, as sales peaked and slipped, the years would chug along as Timely churned out titles and features by the carload with an ever-changing bullpen staff and cache of freelancers, marching into new genres that the entire industry was similarly heading. Into this milieu, Joe Maneely stepped in late 1949. Maneely was born February 18, 1926, in Pennsylvania, and he studied at Philadelphia’s Hussian School of Art. A graduate of the The Philadelphia Bulletin’s advertising art department, he then served three years as a specialist in visual aids for the U.S. Navy and upon discharge began his comic book career at Street and Smith, in 1948, on books like Red Dragon, Ghost Breakers, The Shadow, Supersnipe and Top Secrets, at the age of 22. Features at Street and Smith included “Butterfingers,” “Red Dragon,” “Dr. Savant,” “Django Jinks Ghost Chaser,” “Nick Carter,” “Public Defender Roger Kilgore,” “Supersnipe,” “Russell Swann,” “Tao Anwar,” “Mario Nette,” and “Ulysses Q. Wacky.” According to Ron Goulart, at Street and Smith, Maneely was very possibly influenced by noted pulp illustrator Edd Cartier, who did a brief feature or two coinciding with Maneely’s tenure there, particularly in developing Maneely’s distinctive inking technique. In addition to Street and Smith, Maneely briefly dabbled at Hillman (in Airboy), Pflaum (Treasure Chest), Ziff-Davis, Cross Publications, and Avon, before settling in at Stan Lee’s nascent Atlas sometime in 1949. Maneely joined the Timely staff at a time when Martin Goodman expanded his line in what is known as the “romance and Western glut”. A deluge of Western titles appeared out of nowhere, but even more prevalent was the glut of romance titles, a plenitude that was actually seen industry-wide. The demand for story art was at an all-time high. Some of Maneely’s first work appeared to be back-

grounds and new splash panel art updating Timely bullpen inventory stories in 1950. Some examples of splash panel art: the Gene Colan-pencilled story “Storm In My Heart,” from Best Love #36 [Apr. ’50] and “I Took A Dive,” from True Adventures #3 [May ’50]. Both utilize Maneely’s art in the splash panel only, and he then quickly distinguished himself as a top-notch Western artist with beautiful renderings of Whip Wilson; Kid Colt Outlaw; Black Rider; Red Larabee, the Gunhawk; and The Texas Kid. Using a very detailed, intricately ornate inking style, these early Western stories are some of my favorite Maneely artwork of all time and real masterpieces of Western comic art. At some point in late 1949, Goodman closed down his bullpen and all the artists, except for a possible handful on staff used for production, went freelance. It becomes immediately obvious how fast a penciller Joe was because his art began to appear in scores of horror and war titles as the decade progresses. You can find his artwork in just about every title that Atlas published; hard-hitting, gritty Korean War stories in the war titles like War Comics, Battle and Man Comics, gruesomely eerie horror stories in Marvel Tales, Astonishing and Strange Tales, and action-packed crime stories in Police Action, All-True Crime

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Previous page: Joe Maneely from when he was in the U.S. Navy, as well as a detail from the cover of the first issue of his signature book, Black Knight [May 1955]. This page: Joe also drew the cover for Yellow Claw #1 [Oct. 1956].

NOTE

Working in tandem with the artist’s family, the good Dr. Vassallo has long been at work on a detailed biography of the great Joe Maneely, so keep on the lookout. A precursor of this article was once archived at the now defunct Comicartville website, entitled “What If? Joe Maneely, Marvel’s Forgotten Star.”

The late comic book creator Rich Buckler talks with Michael Aushenker in this final installment of their epic conversation with the artist discussing his collaboration on “Black Panther”

Rich Buckler: Shortly after I started to work for Marvel full time, the men in charge, besides Stan Lee, were John Verpoorten, Sol Brodsky, John Romita, and Roy Thomas. As I recall, there were no editorial power struggles and no ego games. None that I ever ran into, anyway. It was around that time that I got to work with one of the brightest of

the new comic book writers from my generation, Don McGregor. We had two essential things in common. We were both young, and we were both out to change the world! So Don and I were practically spiritual brothers when it came to creating comics. When Don moved to New York from Rhode Island and started his staff job at Marvel he and his family briefly stayed at my place. I helped him to find his first apartment in the Bronx and we became good friends. Don is a consummate wordsmith and storyteller. I know from experience that he is very passionate about his work. So there is another common trait that Don and I had — neither of us did anything halfway or half-heartedly. As I liked to say, all or nothing! And too much is never enough! Comic Book Creator: Enter the Black Panther… Rich: Working on the “Black Panther” series [in Jungle Action] was a challenge. But for both Don and me it was also a sheer labor of love. I always resonated with Jack Kirby’s Black Panther. My first sample Marvel story pages that I showed to Stan Lee were action pages featuring Ka-zar and Black Panther. So, once again, Roy Thomas comes up because it was Roy’s decision to put Don and me together on this character. Remember that I mentioned cinematic storytelling techniques earlier? Well, what I do as a comics creator is what I call “movies on paper.” Don and I always resonated on this point. While Don is not an artist, and he is always quick to point that out, by the way — ”Rich, I can’t even draw a stick figure!” — as a writer, he thinks visually and that cinematic approach to comics is an important part of how he crafts a story. Really his concepts and characters and ideas are all “movies on paper.” So, with Black Panther, we got to build on what Jack Kirby created! But we also got to do it our way. We are both really film directors at heart. Both of us have dabbled in filmmaking for a spell. And both of us are creatively adventurous. That series got off to a nice start and things went smoothly for the most part. Nobody was guiding us or overseeing our work. We were definitely pushing the envelope with all those experiments with layouts and page composition, logos, story titles, coloring. Those things were all the product of brainstorming sessions between Don and myself. CBC: Again, seemingly unprecedented…

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[INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: Deathlok the Demolisher never should’ve happened. The 11-issue tale, told within the pages of Astonishing Tales in the early 1970s, was dark, ominous, nihilistic, racially charged, and, interestingly, sprinkled with allusions to the New Testament and The Doors. Even though it took place in the then-far-off future of 1990, Rich Buckler’s creation came most defiantly out of the 1960s counter-culture. Self-contained and basically unconcerned with the rest of the crossover-happy Marvel Universe, it was also unlike anything the House of Ideas had ever published before. A tragic anti-hero who began life as erstwhile government soldier named Luther Manning, Buckler’s creation did not really occupy the same oxygen as Spider-Man, Iron Man, and the Incredible Hulk, and on those rare occasions Deathlok the Demolisher did tread the same earth, such as in a two-part Marvel Two-in-One opposite The Thing, it was an awkward fit. Above all, Buckler’s short-lived, post-apocalyptic sci-fi saga was ahead of its time, visually recalling elements of those popular futuristic flicks Escape From New York and Robocop. Only thing is, those movies didn’t appear until many years after “Deathlok the Demolisher” was published. And yet, it had all come together for Rich Buckler, hadn’t it? He got the best writer in Doug Moench to execute his bold creation. He landed the best inker, Klaus Janson, to embellish his cinematic, unconventional panels, which not only defied straight-forward sequencing but sometimes dared the readers to turn their entire issue on its side. Reading those 11 issues of Astonishing Tales, you couldn’t help but get the feeling that a mischievous Buckler had truly gotten away with something within ye olde Mighty Marvel Bullpen. A rebel cartoonist who later even rebelled against comics by creating Dali-esque surrealist paintings, Rich Buckler, who passed away at the age of 68, on May 19, 2017, refused to conform. In his own way, Richard Buckler, Sr., was counter-culture to the end. — Michael Aushenker.]

with writer Don McGregor, the Deathlok lawsuit — and his creation’s influence on Hollywood science fiction — and Rich’s post-comics career in the fine arts. Rich: Nobody else at Marvel at the time was doing anything like that. I added the Zip-A-Tone shading on the inked pages. Remember Zip-A-Tone? It was dot patterns used for shading, and these were printed on thin plastic stick-on sheets that you had to cut with a matte knife. Really tedious stuff. That was a technique I learned from Wally Wood and Gray Morrow. And there was this story I did for Warren before I worked on “Black Panther” [“Snow,” Creepy #75, Nov. ’75]. I penciled it really tight and I didn’t know who was going to ink it, so I used blue pencil to indicate all of the shading and lighting techniques. And who did I get for an inker? It was Wally Wood! So you might say I was totally immersed in that work on Jungle Action. I even did extensive coloring notes on the page borders and I worked closely with colorist Glynis Wein. So there were lots of visual surprises and firsts in that series. Sometimes it’s like that: you get really lucky. The whole team on a particular book is involved and totally committed. I wish that kind of thing happened more often! I’ll tell you about something else. Very few comics fans knew even existed back then at Marvel. This is something that has relevance to what I was talking about. A lot of my work and a whole lot of Marvel covers were was done on the Marvel premises at the “bullpen away from the bullpen,” as I like to call it. This was a workspace off in a remote section where nobody bothered me, located on the same floor as the main offices. In fact, it was a place that most of the editorial people didn’t even know about or if they did, rarely visited. The way that came about had little to do with me in particular. It was just sheer luck that I got it. On a whim, I asked Sol Brodsky one day about the space. I had noticed that immense unused office area one day. What I found interesting about it was that it was a nearly empty area that was apparently totally unoccupied. There were desks and chairs, and some of it was used for storage, but it was otherwise just wasted space. Well, I knew a good opportunity when I saw one! So I asked Sol if I could set up a drawing desk there to work at, and would that be okay? Sol said, “Sure. Why not? Let me see what I can do.” So he arranged it. CBC: Sounds pretty sweet! Rich: For about a year or so, I had it basically all to myself. Ed Hannigan joined me later, and I think only Ed and I had keys to get in. Well, besides John Verpoorten and Sol, and maybe Virginia Romita. That space became a sort of exclusive place to hang out. Exclusive,

because it was not for everybody. Just people I liked and resonated with. Which meant artists such as Ed Hannigan, Ron Wilson, and up-andcomers like Klaus Janson and Terry Austin — and ace letterer/calligraphers Tom Orzechowski and Annette Kawicki! Nobody would just hang out though, because, first and foremost, it was a workplace. But the work was also fun! And the creative atmosphere there was always charged! CBC: Were any writers allowed? Rich: Besides Don, no other writers were allowed. Except for Tony Isabella. He was with editorial, but he was cool about it so we still considered him one of the guys. Even more importantly, Tony would stop by often with a lot of British cover assignments that needed to be drawn up fast. Ed and I did a lot of those. CBC: Your work on Deathlok included many references to music, most notably The Doors with the story titles and other references. Can you comment for a moment on what The Doors meant to you? And where you were/how you heard about the passing of Ray Manzarek, in May 2013, and how that hit you? Rich: Yes, well, I have always worked to music. I can’t imagine doing without it. Since my fanzine days as a teenager, I was totally into music. I even taught myself to play guitar and keyboards. I’m not any good at it, mind you, but I can play a bit. Artists, you know, spend a lot of time alone while they work. I found that with music playing in the background I could easily go into creative mode at the drawing board. I suppose a lot of artists do this. “Creative mode” is just my name for it. It ‘s not so esoteric or mysterious as it sounds. It’s just one of those things that happens when you’re sort of “hyper-aware,” and you’re able to be extremely focused. During that kind of work, time seems to disappear. Well, time is really an illusion anyway. And your productivity just soars! Really, in those creative periods just about anything seems possible! So, for me, the music would help make that happen. And the drawing and the ideas would just flow. At Marvel in the ’70s, which were also, I suppose, the halcyon days of hard rock and heavy metal, I listened to music of the late ’60s and early ’70s mostly. It was total immersion in the rock music of The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, The Animals, The Beatles, Procol Harum, Cream, Traffic, Arthur Brown, Iron Butterfly, The Who, and Led Zeppelin. I was also mesmerized by the blues greats, like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, B.B. King, and Buddy Guy. Those guys could really play!

PHOTO PORTRAIT BY KENDALL WHITEHOUSE COMIC BOOK CREATOR • Summer 2019 • #20

Concerts, though, were a whole other thing. I wasn’t all that into indoor Rich: I never thought it might backfire on me somehow. Tributes are concerts, and here’s why: when I was a teenager in Detroit, I went with my tricky like that. Those books I did in that style back then are still considered brother to see Led Zeppelin live. This was just after they had recorded their tremendous fan favorites. Most comics fans loved that stuff. For anybody who thought it was just plain wrong-minded for me to do that, well… fine, first album. I think this was my first live concert. The band was playing at that’s their opinion. I was doing a tribute. That’s how I looked at it, plain a small venue just outside the downtown area. I had never heard anything like Zeppelin before. And I loved the music. But that concert is permanently and simple. I loved Jack Kirby’s work, but it wasn’t like I was trying to “be” Kirby. And I enjoyed the hell out of it when I was doing it! imprinted on my mind, not only because it was the first, but also because it I remember getting hints about this notion a few times from a couple of was the loudest! As we were driving in my car down Michigan Avenue on our way to the concert, we could hear this tremendous roar in front of us off concerned comics fans back then. “You know, maybe Jack Kirby wouldn’t in the distance. That just got louder and louder as we got closer and closer. exactly be thrilled that you’re imitating him. Ever think about that?” That kind of thing. Strangely, that never even occurred to me. I never really I realized it was the band playing! Whoa! I think the whole neighborhood was taking in that performance. You didn’t have to even go into the building! thought about that. So, then I began to wonder just what Jack might think about the whole thing. Well, why not find out? So I called him up. Well, my brother Ron and I couldn’t hear right for weeks afterward! I think I didn’t get Jack on the telephone this time as it turned out. He was my ears are still ringing from it. I went to two more concerts at that same busy at the drawing table and he couldn’t come to the phone, but I spoke venue. I saw The Who when Tommy first came out, and I got to see Iron to Roz, Jack’s wife. I asked her pointedly if Jack saw my work on Fantastic Butterfly with their long version of “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.” After that, my Four and some of the other Marvel books where I was doing my Jack Kirby hearing started to suffer a bit, so I swore off live concerts. style riffs. I wanted to know: what did he think about it? “Was he offended, All these concerts were deafening, really. I remember seeing Iggy and or did it upset him?” I asked. Roz told me, “No! On the contrary, he loved it. the Stooges live, and their music was awful. Iggy kept falling down and He took it as a compliment!” That settled the matter for me, right then and retching and cutting himself on stage. I think that was myIFlast live ENJOYED concert THIS YOU PREVIEW, and, after that, I just kept things limited to recorded music. CLICK THE LINK TOthere. ORDER THIS CBC: Another Jack Kirby endorsement! [laughter] Nowadays, for most my painting and drawing timeISSUE I listenIN to PRINT a good OR DIGITAL FORMAT! Rich: So I’m saying this for all the concerned comics fans out there who deal of classical music. Beethoven, Bach, Rachmaninoff, Paganini. I’m love Jack Kirby’s work. There’s no controversy there. Besides, that was still a rock ’n’ roller at heart, though, so I still throw on some rock music to something I did and then I dropped it. I had fun with it, but I didn’t make a keep things flowing. So, back when I worked at the Marvel offices, it was career out of it. like that: I was always plugged into a portable radio with headphones. I loved all of the blues-based rock bands. The Doors, in particular, fascinated CBC: I think many readers would agree that artistically you are your own man, for sure. and inspired me. It was so emotion-charged and surreal! Their music just Rich: Same thing, by the way, with the Neal Adams style I used at DC took me to “the zone.” Nobody was doing the keyboard-based stuff that Comics. On that note, it’s funny, but I still meet people who know absolutely Ray Manzarek was coming up with. Robby Krieger’s knife-edged bluesy nothing about comics and they actually think Stan Lee writes and draws guitar work was distinctive and dynamic. John Densmore was soulful on all of the books! So when they tell me that, of course I correct them and I drums — and he was impeccable! And Jim Morrison — I thought he was tell them: “No, Stan isn’t an artist. He doesn’t draw anything. There are lots definitely visiting what I refer to as “the zone.” Maybe it was all the drugs of artists and creators who do that.” And then sometimes I’ll get: “Really? and alcohol. But it took you places. I mean, everything the band did was Stan Lee lets you draw his stuff?” like that: epic and otherworldly, and so soul-stirring and inspiring! So, with CBC: With Deathlok, a character you had created work-for-hire and Deathlok, I always named the stories myself. All of those rock ’n’ roll story brought to the Marvel table, how would you go about things differently if titles were chosen by me. It just fit so perfectly. I couldn’t resist. You know, COMIC BOOK you had#20 to do it all over again, given the creator-owned nature of the indusI always thought, if Deathlok had a soundtrack, it would definitely be hard CREATOR NOT YOUR AVERAGE JOES! Interview with JOSEPH MICHAEL try today. rock! I like to say: DC Comics is classical music and Marvel rock roll.VAMPIRELLA), LINSNERis (CRY FOR’n’ DAWN, a chatWould with JOE you self-publish or go to an imprint like Image? Was there SINNOTT about his Marvel years inking Kirby and workto creating Deathlok while at Marvel? anyJackadvantage CBC: You were so into music, Rich…did you ever meet any rock stars? at TREASURE CHEST, JOE JUSKO discusses the Marvel Age of Let’s Rich: Oh, and while we’re on that subject of music and comics, and this Comics and his fabulous “Corner BoxRich: Collection,” plus see… the artistscreative advantages at Marvel with Deathlok? Let me the(which Topps bubble comic strips,about that one. Ummm… actually, none. Marvel published thinkJOE real hard was around the time Marvel was doing the KISS comicbehind book I gum BAZOOKA YOE, and more! it. That’s it. Maybe that sounds almost ungrateful, but it’s true. There were worked on also), Marvel was getting some occasionalCRAIG celebrity visitors (100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $9.95 specific advantages that were provided by the publisher. Actually, as from the music industry. Elton John had dropped by the Marvel offices for Edition)no (Digital $5.95 I mentioned earlier, there were mostly hindrances along the way, once I a surprise visit. David Bowie, too. It seems that they were both comic book http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_132&products_id=1412 began to work on it. enthusiasts. Let me explain: Nobody at Marvel was looking out for me then except CBC: Really? Now that is otherworldly! for Roy Thomas. Once he was gone, I was virtually on my own. What I Rich: Unfortunately, I was busy working and I missed both of those produced for Marvel on that book was technically work-for-hire, as you put occasions. But I had an opportunity to meet John Lennon. At the time, Roy Thomas was hoping to start a project with John that involved doing a comic it — but there was no input from Marvel at all. Marvel Comics was where the work I did got processed. Marvel issued the paychecks. I did the work. book. When Roy mentioned that prospect, I was all ears! Roy invited me As I said before, I did most of my Marvel work at home, with covers being to be in on it. I couldn’t wait. Alright, so Roy said he would arrange for us about the only exception. That’s how Jack Kirby and John Buscema did to meet at the Dakota to discuss the details and work things out. We were it then, and Herb Trimpe and Gene Colan and most of the rest of the guys. both really excited about this. But, only a few days later, Lennon was shot. You can imagine, when I heard that news, I was shocked. I was devastated. They worked at home. Gil Kane wasn’t sitting at a drawing table in the Marvel “bullpen” with CBC: Can you discuss at all the visual homage you paid to Jack Kirby? Stan Lee leaning over his shoulder and saying: “Okay, Gil, draw it like Rich: I did that on some of the Marvel books I drew because I wanted to. this…” John Romita and Sol Brodsky were on staff and they worked at the Drawing in that style was also fun and at the same time it was my way of Marvel offices. Editors and assistant editors worked there. Everybody else acknowledging the influence and saying thanks. There was nothing else behind it. My sole reason for doing it was my love of the characters and my was freelance, including letterers, colorists, and all of the writers. That Marvel “bullpen” I keep mentioning was just several rows of art tables admiration for Jack Kirby as a creator! I was so enamored with how Jack originally did the Fantastic Four and Thor and the Incredible Hulk. You know, where art corrections, lettering corrections, and mechanical paste-up were all the magical seminal Marvel stuff that I grew up on as a comics fan. That done. Let’s see… Mike Esposito, Jack Abel, and George Roussos worked there, and Marie Severin had her own office nearby, but otherwise the bullwas still alive in me — and it still is to this day. It wasn’t like anybody at Marvel wanted me to draw this way or that way, or that anybody told me to pen was just a glorified production department. So literally, Marvel didn’t do it. I always drew whatever I pleased in whatever way I wanted anyway. factor into the creation of the book at all. Except in terms of the production And I certainly wasn’t a struggling artist hoping to make it by being a “Kirby process and then to get it printed and onto the newsstands, of course. On the creative side of things, Deathlok’s world had nothing to do with Marvel’s clone.” Far from it. By the way, here’s a totally surreal synchronicity regarding Kirby. I nev- universe, or vice versa. That was on purpose. er knew him well and his influence on me was profound. He is my absolute CBC: What about as far as editorial was concerned? Rich: Well, honestly, nobody at the Marvel offices seemed to know what favorite comics creator. But you know what? Kirby passed away on my the book was or what to do with it. Not even Stan Lee, as I mentioned birthday. That is one walloping cosmic conundrum! earlier. CBC: Heavy. 84

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