Jack Kirby Collector #10 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Fully Authorized By The Kirby Estate

$4.95 In The US

CELEBRATING THE LIFE & CAREER OF THE KING!

A special humo r issue, exploring the lighter side o f Jack!

Issue #10, APR. 1996

A funny and To uching interview with Jack’s wife

Rosalind Kirby McCarthy In long underwear?

Fighting American Yo u begged! yo u pleaded! But he’s still in this issue:

Goody Rickels The creator of Destro yer Duck interviewed:

Steve Gerber Fans & Pros Tell

Favorite Stories About Jack

Unpublished Art including Jack’s Pencils From Jimmy O lsen, destro yer duck and Tho r Before They Were Inked-- And Much Mo re!!

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Fighting American & Speedboy © Joe Simon and Jack Kirby

Features On: Kirby’s Lo ckjaw The Alligato r, Earl The RichRabbit, My Date, Brand Echh, modern art, Professional sports and more!

this mess was edited by: John Morrow

(Our front cover is the art from a poster sold in conjunction with Jack’s 1979 Masterworks Portfolio. Shown here are the uninked pencils from the portfolio’s cover.)

Design and Layo ut are the fault o f: John & Pamela Morrow Pro o freading erro rs were missed by: Richard howell We didn't have anything to Be Co lo red this issue By: Tom Ziuko (He’s off the hook!) The fo llo wing contributo rs are guilty by asso ciation: Jim Amash Terry Austin Jerry Boyd Tom Brevoort Len Callo Nicholas Caputo Jon B. Cooke Al Czarnecki Stuart Deitcher Jim Engel Steve Gerber David Hamilton Chris Harper Joe Heffernan Randy Klauzer Richard Kolkman Jim Korkis Marty Lasick Mark Marderosian Harold May Harold May Michael O’Hara Marc Pacella Leo Pando David Penalosa Pat Price Danny Serafin Scott Shaw! Steve Sherman Joe Sinnott John Stangeland Jim Steranko Greg Theakston Rich Vitone Peter Von Sholly Bob Wiacek Erez Yakin (Each co ntributo r Receives o ne free issue fo r their effo rts, whether they want o ne o r no t!!)

The fo llo wing were invo lved in behind-The-Scenes mischief (fo r which we’re Grateful): Len Callo Steve Gerber D. Hambone Marc Pacella Greg Theakston & of course, Roz Kirby. The fo llo wing go t a large number of p aper Cuts while stuffing this issue into envelopes: Glen Musial Ed Stelli Patrick Varker Bob Permer and all the other Kirby fans in Raleigh, NC.

We respectfully dedicate this issue to the amazing woman behind the man:

Ro salind Kirby Thanks for keeping Jack so happy (& productive) all those years, and for putting up with all us fans.

Fighting American & Speedboy and Uncle Giveaway are © Joe Simon & Jack Kirby. • Morgan Edge, Goody Rickels, Jimmy Olsen, Guardian, Ugly Mannheim, Big Barda, Superman, Lois Lane, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, Billy Batson, Sivana, Mr. Miracle, Demon and Orion are TM and © DC Comics, Inc. • Earl The Rich Rabbit, Lockjaw The Alligator, Swifty Chase, Sunny Daye and House-Date Harry are © Hillman Periodicals. • Tarzan is TM and © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. • Lone Ranger and Tonto are TM and © Broadway Video. • Goozlebobber is © Jack Kirby. • Destroyer Duck, Battle Axe, Medea and Woblina Strangelegs are © Steve Gerber and Jack Kirby. • Cyclops, Human Torch, Captain America, Scarlet Witch, Marvel Girl, Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Iron Man, Daredevil, Quicksilver, Invisible Girl, Thor, Sub-Mariner, Dr. Strange, Sgt. Fury, Rawhide Kid, Hulk, Spider-Man, Red Skull, Patsy & Hedy, Ikaris, Silver Surfer, Magneto, Dr. Bloom, Hawkeye, Beast, Iceman and Angel are TM and © Marvel Entertainment Group, Inc.

The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 3, No. 10, Apr. 1996. Published bi-monthly by TwoMorrows Advertising, 502 Saint Mary’s St., Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Assistant Editor. Single issues: $4.95 each U.S., $5.40 Canada, $7.40 outside North America. Six-issue subscriptions: $24.00 US, $32.00 Canada and Mexico, and $44.00 outside North America. First printing. The initial printing of this issue was mailed the week of April 15, 1996. All characters are © their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. - Raleigh, NC 27605 USA -- phone (919) 833-8092 -- FAX

(919) 833-8023 -- EMAIL: Twomorrow@aol.com

“Don’t Ask! Just Buy It!” The Wacky World of Jack Kirby, Cartoonist by Scott Shaw! he first time I met Jack, I blurted out, “Jack Kirby!?! You’re my favorite cartoonist!” And surprisingly, Jack seemed quite pleased to be described by that simple term, usually applied to those of us who write and draw nothing but the funny stuff. I suppose that’s because Jack probably saw himself as a cartoonist, too. Most people tend to think of Jack Kirby in melodramatic superlatives. He’s been described as the ultimate comic book artist, a master’s master of graphic fiction, an incredibly talented creator of dynamic heroes, dramatic action and cosmic conflicts. Comics aficionados have dubbed him “King” Kirby (a title he wore with some discomfort), and have compared his work to that of Da Vinci, Rembrandt and Rockwell, among other artistic greats. He was, without a doubt, the single most imaginative individual ever to work in the field of comic books. He was equally comfortable working in any of the familiar comic book genres of super-heroics, romance, westerns, science fiction and war, among other dramatic themes. But Jack Kirby was also very funny as a writer, as an artist and as a person, and left behind a surprisingly large body of work to prove it. One of the strangest paradoxes in comics is that most “straight” comic books (in such “realistic” genres as super-heroes, western, romance, war, etc.) are drawn in styles that actually bear almost no resemblance to truly realistic illustration! Yet, many fans (and even editors) of these comics turn up their noses at anything resembling the kind of humorous cartooning sometimes referred to within the business as “big-foot drawing.” In my estimation, Jack Kirby’s artwork somehow bridges this aesthetic gulf. Judging by life-drawings that he had done as a young man, Jack had always possessed a natural ability to work in a much more realistic style than that with which he is now usually associated. It appears that the exaggerated and dynamic anatomy, poses, design, composition and

foreshortening that have become such a Kirby trademark may have been the result of a conscious aesthetic decision on Jack’s part. One thing is certain, however; once he began his professional career (under a variety of pen names), no matter what the character or genre, whether the subject was serious or light-hearted, Jack Kirby could only draw like Jack Kirby—and if humorous illustration could be described as an exaggeration of realistic art, then Jack Kirby’s humor work is nothing less than an even greater exaggeration of his normally exaggerated style! Some of Jack’s earliest professional work was doing “in-betweening” on the animated Popeye shorts at the Max Fleisher Studios. Although he soon tired of the job and left the studio, citing that the work was far less than creatively fulfilling, it’s apparent that his experiences at Fleisher’s had some influence on him, because one of his early comic strips was Socko the Seadog, which was a fairly blatant Popeye imitation. But it’s likely that this early animation training also had a long-range effect on Jack throughout his six-decade career. Not coincidentally, in the 1980s Jack found himself back where he started, working in the animation field, doing character designs and concept development for Hanna-Barbera and Ruby-Spears Productions (including extremely cartoony designs for H-B’s Scooby Doo cartoons!). Here are a few notable examples of prime (left) S&K’s movie parody as seen in From Here To Insanity #1 (August 1955). (above) Earl The Rich Rabbit splash page from Punch & Judy Comics Vol. 3, #2 (Dec. 1947). 3

-- Long live the king! -- Jo hn Mo rro w, Editor -- c/o

Twomorrows Advertising -- 502 Saint Mary’s St. -

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of Win-A-Prize Comics (Charlton/Simon & Kirby Productions, 1954), a comic with the gimmick of awarding 500 free prizes of bikes, cameras and sports equipment to readers who completed the drawing, stories and quizzes within. From Here To Insanity #11 (Charlton, 1955) was merely one of many comic books that flooded the newsstands in hopeful imitation of the spectacular success of Harvey Kurtzman’s Mad. Like its inspiration, this comic (originally titled EH!) featured a movie parody (“Walt Chisley’s 20,000 Lugs Under The Sea”), a comic-strip parody (“Rex Mortgage, M.D.?”), and a TV parody (“Line ’Em Up”) as well as various ad spoofs (“Be A Successful 90-Pound Weakling”). There’s also a preview for “Comet Feldmeyer, the Ace of Space! And His Nerve-Wracking Little Companion... Lovable... The Electronic Nuisance!”, supposedly to appear in the next issue, but actually never seen in print again. This comic also features something unusual for Jack but quite typical of Mad: the usage of Duo-Tone art board to add a textured gray shading under the coloring. (Later in the mid-60s, Jack would draw and color a spectacularly Mad-like piece of promotional art for the “Captain Nice” TV sitcom!) Even Jack’s most enduring co-creation, the Marvel Universe, bears many marks of his sense of humor. The Fantastic Four’s Thing started out as a tragic character, but within a dozen issues Ben Grimm evolved into a lovable behemoth who remains one of the most beloved Marvel characters of all time. His ongoing feud with the mysterious Yancy Street Gang was a source of gags in many early issues. FF #11 introduced the irrepressible Impossible Man, who echoed the personality of the zany alien lead in the play and film “Visit To A Small Planet.” When the Inhumans were introduced, so was their teleporting pet Lockjaw (and I sincerely doubt if the similarity in names between the giant bulldog and Jack’s funny animal alligator of the ’40s was a Jack and Joe take pot shots at Charles Atlas in From Here To Insanity #11. coincidence)! Another humorous Kirby creation at Marvel is Volstagg the Voluminous (undoubtedly patterned after Wm. Kirby cartooning over the years: Shakespeare’s comic/tragic character Falstaff ), one of the Warriors During the mid-1940s, Jack tried his hand at funny animals with Three in The Mighty Thor along with Fandral the Dashing and Hogun “Earl The Rich Rabbit” and “Lockjaw The Alligator” in Punch And the Grim. And who could forget the bizarre image of the Incredible Judy Comics for Hillman Periodicals. As a cartoonist who’s done more Hulk, dressed in clown make-up and costume, juggling live elephants than a few funny animals myself, I feel I must emphasize that Jack and other circus animals, as depicted in The Avengers #1? Jack even truly excelled at this type of material and that it’s a real shame he did an outstanding parody of his own characters in Not Brand Echh rarely ever revisited the genre. Although lightweight in story, these are some of the most dynamic and powerful pages I’ve ever seen! It’s also noteworthy that “Earl” pre-dated Carl Barks’ Uncle $crooge McDuck, who made his first appearance in 1948! Around the same time, Jack also drew a teen humor strip, “Toby,” appearing in Archie’s Laugh Comics. Fighting American (Prize Group, 1954) started out as a fairly straightforward reworking of Captain America’s origin in a Cold War setting, but Simon and Kirby soon had Johnny Flagg and his sidekick Speedboy facing a host of whacked-out bad guys. Stories as funny as these come along few and far between, but considering they were crafted during the humorless era of “The Red Menace,” they are a testament to Simon and Kirby’s unique “take” on even the most somber subject matter. These hilarious stories have recently been assembled in a hardback collection that is The Goozlebobber from Captain Victory, well worth its somewhat pricey cost. shown here in a toy presentation drawing. Inks by Marty Lasick. “Uncle Giveaway” was the host 4

eyes haven’t already bugged out from reading this

mess!)

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(1967) with “The Fantastical Four,” “The Mighty Sore” and “The Silver Burper.” When Jack relocated at DC in the early ’70s, he packed his sense of humor with him. Don Rickles’ lookalike “Goody” Rickels first appeared in Jimmy Olsen #139 (1971), and the final installment of the Rickels saga, Jimmy Olsen #141, bore what possibly remains the greatest comic book cover blurb of all time: “Kirby says: Don’t ask! Just bu y it!”

A few years later, Jack came up with a wacky “kid gang” for DC, “The Dingbats of Danger Street” in First Issue Special. But among all of these, his most amazing—and revealing— humorous creations for DC were “Funky Flashman” and “Houseroy,” who made their first appearance in Mister Miracle #6 (1972). Of all the Fourth World titles, this one seemed to serve as the outlet for many of Jack’s more darkly humorous concepts, but this particular issue still stands out as a sterling example of not only Jack’s sense of humor, but also of his ability to do scathing satire. Funky is his barely-disguised version of Stan Lee! (And his obsequious houseboy Houseroy is obviously based on Roy Thomas!) Check out this intro text for an example of Jack’s attitude toward his fellow inmates in “The House Of Ideas”: In the shadow world between success and failure, there lives the driven little man who dreams of having it all!!!--The opportunistic spo iler without character or values, who preys on all things like a cannibal!!!---Including yo u!!! Like death and taxes, we all must deal with him sometime! That’s why, in this issue, we go where he lives--in the decaying ante-bellum grandeur of the mockingbird estates!!---and “Wait fo r Go do t” with Funky Flashman!

But what do you really think, Jack? When Mister Miracle #6 was first published, the comics community was stunned by its uncharacteristically savage tone, but in retrospect, it’s even more outrageous! To paraphrase Stan’s familiar old hypeline, if there’s but one Jack Kirby comic that you should seek out and read, this is the one! Taking the subtext of “Funky Flashman” Enter Goody Rickels! Shown here are Jack’s uninked pencils from Jimmy Olsen #139. into account, it’s a testament to his importance in the comic book industry that Jack could Marvel (and to provide funds for Gerber’s lawsuit against Marvel over return to Marvel in the mid-’70s. But return he did, triumphantly, ownership of Howard The Duck). Duke “Destroyer” Duck battles the where among other things, he wrote and drew “What If The Original forces of Godcorp, Ltd., whose corporate motto is “Grab It All, Own Marvel Bullpen Had Become The Fantastic Four?” in What If? #11 It All, Drain It All.” Later, created during a bedtime story for one of (1978), featuring Stan Lee as Mister Fantastic, Sol Brodsky as The his grandchildren, the Dr. Seuss-like “Goozlebobber” turned up in Human Torch, Flo Steinberg as The Invisible Girl, and Jack himself as Jack’s Captain Victory And The Galactic Rangers (Pacific, 1983). The Thing! Jack’s opinion of Stan and company had apparently melWhat can I say in summation? Jack Kirby was the consummate lowed, although the story’s affectionate tone might be due to Jack’s cartoonist, excelling at every type of comic book story—especially artistic reunion with the F.F. (even this strangely warped version) humor. And to paraphrase Jack, I didn’t ask—I just bought ’em! rather than with Mighty Marvel itself. (I was delighted to help out co(Scott Shaw! is a cartoonist and long-time friend of the Kirbys. He has inkers Mike Royer and Bill Wray by doing uncredited background credited Jack Kirby as a major influence on his style, which was evident in inks throughout the story.) his work on Captain Carrot And His Amazing Zoo Crew! for DC Comics, Always a trailblazer, Jack was one of the first big-name cartoonwhich Scott says was essentially “What If Jack Kirby drew Mighty Mouse?” ists to establish creator-owned properties for the direct sales comic He currently oversees the animation for cereal commercials featuring The book market. Destroyer Duck (Eclipse, 1982) was Jack’s long-awaited Flintstones, including the recent “Virtual Reality” Fruity Pebbles spot that (by me, at least!) return to the funny-animal genre. This satirical title featured Barney Rubble as a Galactus-like entity!) was co-created with Steve Gerber in reaction to their mistreatment by 5 ➡ booth! --- Now, stop reading this nonsense, and get

to work on this Humo r issue! (That is, if YOur

“Would You Like To See My Etchings?” Rosalind Kirby Interviewed (conducted by John Morrow on December 12, 1995) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: What’s your favorite color? ROSALIND KIRBY: Yellow. I love yellow roses.

ROZ: Yes. It was the summer of 1940. I was telling everyone I was disappointed. I thought he was going to fool around! (laughter) And from that time on... let’s see, I was 171⁄2, on my 18th birthday I became engaged. We were engaged for a year, and when I was 19 and he was 24, we were married.

TJKC: What’s your favorite ice cream flavor? ROZ: Choc... no, actually, I like cherry jubilee. TJKC: Wow, that’s an interesting choice! So where were you born? ROZ: I was born in Brooklyn, September 25, 1922. Now you know my age! (laughter)

TJKC: What did your parents think of Jack when they first met him? ROZ: Well, they thought, “He’s an artist. He’ll never make a living.” (laughter) His parents always wanted him to be a mechanic so he could make a living. In the Army, he was a mechanic for three months, and he couldn’t even change a tire. (laughter) I have a little 3" x 3" diploma from the Army that says “Jack Kirby, Mechanic, U.S. Army.” He didn’t even know how to change a tire, so you can imagine...! (laughter) But he always called me a cheap date, because I lived upstairs, and he didn’t have to go far to pick me up to go out.

TJKC: I won’t do the math. (laughter) What was your childhood like? Did you grow up in the same kind of neighborhood as Jack? ROZ: Jack was brought up in the Jack and Roz at home in 1991. lower east side of Manhattan, in tenement houses. I was brought up in Brooklyn in small, private homes. But my folks were also very poor, and they had a tough life. My father was a tailor, my mother did a lot of work dressmaking and things. I was very ill as a young girl because I had asthma. From age eight I was very sick. I used to sit up at night and help my mother do hand-sewing and I became very good at it. Before I met Jack I was working as a lingerie designer, doing very fine work designing all those pretty things you put on women’s lingerie, and laces and things like that. That’s why I was able to do inking, because I always used a fine pen and ink for the lace work. Right after I graduated high school, I got the job and did it for a few years.

TJKC: Did your dad like him right off the bat? ROZ: They got along pretty well. I was always really ill as a young girl, and I didn’t do too much dating. Then when I met Jack, we really became close pretty fast. We just hit it off, that’s all. TJKC: Was he a “Ladies’ Man”? Did he have lots of girlfriends? ROZ: When I moved in, the neighbors had five daughters, and every one of them was after him. (laughter) It was lots of fun, let’s put it that way! (laughter) They all wanted to marry off their daughters, and they wanted to get ahold of a bachelor.

TJKC: Did the Depression hit your family pretty hard? ROZ: Well, it didn’t have to hit. There was always a depression for us. It was always pretty difficult for my folks. They worked hard all their lives. We moved to so many places. When we couldn’t pay the rent, we had to move to another apartment. But they always managed to have a roof over our head, and have food for us, and the children always came first for them. They were good parents.

A drawing Jack sent to a fan while stationed at Camp Stewart, GA during WWII.

TJKC: How did you and Jack meet? ROZ: That was one of the times we were moving. It was to one of these attached brick homes, and Jack’s family lived downstairs, and my folks rented the apartment upstairs. The first time I came there, he was playing stickball with his friends. I was 171⁄2, and Jack was five years older. His parents and my parents were getting acquainted, and he came over to me and started talking. The first thing he says to me is, “Would you like to see my etchings?” (laughter) I didn’t know what the word ‘etchings’ meant, and he said, “My drawings.” So I said, “Oh, sure.” So he takes me to his bedroom, and I thought, “What could happen? My folks are there, his folks are there.”(laughter) And that’s the first time I saw Captain America. I’d never read a comic book in my life. TJKC: So he was already working on Captain America at the time? 6

and The Dallas Fantasy Fair. So look for us at

these shows, and be sure to come by our

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TJKC: How did you know Jack was “the one”? ROZ: Well, when we started dating... y’know, nowadays the young people want to have their “space.” But we never did that. No matter what we did, we always did it together. We went to movies, went out to dinner, went for walks, bike riding. We were constantly together. I didn’t want to be with anyone else, and he didn’t want to be with anyone else, and that’s the way it was from that day on. It lasted over 50 years. TJKC: What was the date of your wedding? ROZ: May 23, 1942. TJKC: Was that right before he went off to war? ROZ: We were married for about a year before he was drafted. He wasn’t drafted the first year because he was supporting his parents, so they let him have a certain time off. Then after the year, all his friends were in the service, so he said, “That’s it” and he went in the year after we were married. TJKC: When you first met him, had he legally changed his last name from Kurtzberg to Kirby? ROZ: The name was legally changed before he went into the service. We got married with the name Kurtzberg, and it was legally changed right after we got married. TJKC: So when you met him, he was going by Kurtzberg, even though he was signing the comics ‘Jack Kirby’? ROZ: Right. Everyone was starting to call him Kirby, and they’d call his mother’s house, and she’d say, “I don’t know any Kirbys.” (laughter) TJKC: So you legally changed yours as well. Was it difficult to get used to the new name? You were Rosalind Goldstein before you met Jack. ROZ: Well, it wasn’t difficult, because I wasn’t Kurtzberg that long. It was difficult for Jack because his parents were hurt about it. They didn’t want him to do it. That’s why he never denied it in all those interviews; he said his original name was Kurtzberg. TJKC: So he changed his name for commercial reasons only? ROZ: Oh, yes. Remember how many names he had when he was doing all those characters?

Pencils to the inked Fighting American drawing we published in TJKC #5. time, if you made a hundred bucks, it was considered a fortune.

TJKC: Yes! Jack Curtiss, and all of those. ROZ: Right. When the kids were born, we were legally the Kirby family.

TJKC: While Jack was off in World War II, what were you doing? Was your family nearby? ROZ: I still worked at the lingerie shop until he came home from the service. Back then, we all lived nearby, we were all very close. When Jack went to the service, I gave up the apartment and moved in with my mother so I wouldn’t be alone.

TJKC: Where did you and Jack live when you first got married? ROZ: We had an apartment in Manhattan Beach, right on the beach. I remember we paid $53 for a tremendous apartment. It was beautiful! But you can’t compare today with 50 years ago. What you earned then wasn’t comparable to what you earn now. A little went a long way.

TJKC: I take it you got letters pretty often from Jack during the war. Was this a weekly occurrence? ROZ: Oh yes, most of the time. There were times when he’d be out in the field, and I wouldn’t hear from him for weeks at a time, and I’d be really worried. And finally when a letter came, you gave a sigh of relief. I’ve still got all these V-Mail letters, some with pictures drawn on them.

Comic Con, Hero es Con, The Ramapo Comic Con,

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sidering: The San Diego Comic-Con, The Chicago

TJKC: At that point, did you feel like you were doing pretty well financially, considering how young you both were? ROZ: Yes, considering what he was making. He supported me, he always helped his mother and father. And we were still able to get a bond every week from his paycheck, so the money went far. At that

very interested. Because it’s something different. How many people can say they worked as a comic book artist? TJKC: For the record, when were each of your children born? ROZ: Susan just had a birthday, she hit the big Five-Oh. Her’s was December 6th, 1945. Neal was born May 25th, 1948, close to my anniversary. Barbara was born November 29th, 1952. And Lisa was born September 6th, 1960. TJKC: How did Jack react when you told him you were pregnant with Susan? ROZ: Oh, he was thrilled! He always said, “That’s the American way. Fight the war, come back, and start your family.” We were very excited about it, because we were married a couple of years before we had our first child. Then we moved to Long Island and bought our first house there. That’s when Joe Simon bought a house right across the street from us. He and his family moved at the same time. TJKC: With all the work Jack was turning out at that point, was he able to be there when Susan was born? ROZ: Oh yes, he was home for all the children. In fact, he was a very good baby sitter, because he worked at home. So I was able to get out while he took care of the kids. He had more patience than I did! (laughter) Like at night, if anybody cried, he was the one who got up and walked the floor with them while I slept. He was great that way.

Jack sits poolside with the family pooch in 1991. TJKC: Did he ever get leave? ROZ: Not when he was overseas. When he was here, before he went overseas, he wanted to get out of the infantry, so he volunteered. That’s when we went down to Atlanta for three months. They tried to make an automobile mechanic out of him. (laughter) He was trying to get on the newspaper, but they dismissed everyone. And then they had the big push, and they needed as many men as they could, so he went with the rest of the gang overseas. I’ll never forget when I got the call that he was in the hospital. The first thing I said was, “Are your arms and hands okay?” That’s the first thing that came to me. Then when I heard that it was his feet, I still worried because a lot of his friends’ feet were so frozen that the toes came off, and one close friend’s feet had to be amputated. Thank God he thawed out. But he was on disability for over a year after he got out of the service. Thank God nothing happened to his hands.

TJKC: So he was able to get work done with the kids around? ROZ: Yes, he never really started his work until after they were settled down for the night. Then he’d be working until about 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. Many times I’d wake up, the sun was up, and he’d still be at the board; because that’s when he found the house was quiet, and he was able to do his work. TJKC: When did Jack start smoking cigars? ROZ: I think when he met Joe Simon! (laughter) When Joe was smoking, Jack was smoking. They both stunk up the house! (laughter) My walls were yellow, my drapes were yellow, all the books were yellow. TJKC: So he was smoking when you met him? ROZ: Yes, yes. He never smoked cigarettes, just pipes and cigars. I never saw him with a cigarette. There’s only one picture, where he wanted to look like a tough guy, so he puffed away on a cigarette. (laughter)

TJKC: Was there ever any stigma attached to being married to a comic book artist? When you told your friends what your husband did for a living, was it ever strange for you at all? ROZ: Not really. I think they always found it so different that they always asked questions. Especially if you mentioned Captain America, because Captain America seemed to be making a big hit in those days, during the Army days. It always impressed everyone.

TJKC: Let’s talk about Joe Simon for a minute. Did you and Jack socialize with Joe and his wife much during the 1940s? ROZ: No, not too much. We were good neighbors, and I socialized more with Joe’s wife Harriet because the kids were all the same age. We’d go to the beach a lot. There was another couple, the Fleagles, and we’d all pile into the cars and go to the beach. We were all so busy, the boys were working at night, and we were busy with the kids. We didn’t really socialize that much, but we socialized as neighbors, took

TJKC: I guess Boy Commandos was well-known also. ROZ: Yes, in fact, there’s a funny incident; my daughter does massage therapy work, and one of her clients started telling her one of his war stories. He was in the Vietnam War, and he says, “Our group was called Boy Commandos.” She started laughing, and he says, “What are you laughing about?” And she says, “My father created that!” And the guy almost fell off the table! (laughter) It’s a small world. But even to this day, if you mention comic books, they’re always

TJKC even better). We’re currently deciding which

ones we can afford to attend, but we’re con-

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An assortment of mostly-Kirby characters from the MMMS Stationery Kit. (The kit’s cover is atop the next page.)

Illustration for a Kirby-family Christmas card.

it book by book, and everybody thought all the books were the same. TJKC: After working as a team for so many years, was Jack concerned when Joe went into advertising in 1959? Was it difficult for him emotionally to be out on his own again? ROZ: Well, the field was very bad, and they were both looking for work at that time. But Jack was always able to get work. Not as much, but he was always able to find work. Jack never liked the advertising field. I’m sure he could have gone into it, but he never liked it. His heart had always been with comics, so he stuck with comics. So Joe went his way, and Jack went his way. They both had families to support, so they did the best they could.

walks with the children, took them for ice cream and things like that. TJKC: Were Jack and Joe really close, or were they just co-workers who got along really well? ROZ: I wouldn’t say they were close, but they got along very well. Jack always thought of Joe as a big brother.

TJKC: But the parting was amicable? There wasn’t any kind of big blow-up or anything? ROZ: No, no, no. Nothing like that. It was just economics.

TJKC: Well, he was so tall! (Roz laughs) ROZ: Jack was always the shrimpy. (laughter) TJKC: I’ve always wondered how two tough, rugged guys like Jack and Joe did all those romance comics. Did you give them ideas for stories? ROZ: Oh, no, no. If I suggested anything to Jack, he’d get hysterical. You know the crazy names he always came up with? I’d say, “I have a great name for you.” He’d look at me and get hysterical and start laughing! (laughter) So I said, “Okay, I’m not gonna give you any more ideas!” (laughter) If I read a story, I’d tell him if I liked it or not, and he liked it when I did that. But I never gave him any ideas for anything. Sometimes when he came up with things like the Silver Surfer and the Black Racer, I’d say, “It’s crazy. It’ll never go over. What kind of crazy names are those?” (laughter) But his vision... he’d look ahead and say, “Don’t worry, they’ll catch on. Don’t worry.”

TJKC: Let’s talk some more about Jack’s work habits. You said that he liked to work late at night. Was that from the very beginning? ROZ: From the day I met him, he always worked in the evenings. When he came back from the service, we were living with my mother until we were able to get our own place. We had the bedroom, and he worked there. I’d go to bed, and the baby was sleeping, and he’d be working all night long. That’s the way he liked it. And the funny part

TJKC: When Jack and Joe’s Mainline company went out of business due to the whole Comics Code thing and the way the industry was going, was it a really scary time in your lives? ROZ: I’m trying to remember. I never dealt too much with the business end of that. But it was tough times. Like nowadays, the books weren’t doing well. If you put money into it, you lost your money. At that time, with that guy Dr. Wertham, there was a lot of that going on. TJKC: Did Jack have many sleepless nights over parents burning the books and Dr. Wertham going on his tirades? ROZ: He was always very angry about it, but there was nothing... he called Wertham all kinds of names. (laughter) But life went on. There wasn’t anything he could do about it. They felt their books weren’t that bad. But Wertham lumped all the books together, he didn’t take 9

promote TJKC, and pick up lots of new subscribers

(which translates into mo re submissions, making

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Jack at his fabled drawing table in 1991.

of it is, even when we moved to our own place, he always liked to have voices around him. He’d have the TV picture going, and the sound turned down so he could see action. Then he’d have the radio going to hear the voices. (laughter)

Jack did this pencil drawing for Joe Sinnott’s son Mark in return for Joe inking the Fighting American drawing that appeared in the Kirby Unleashed portfolio. (See page 30 of this issue)

TJKC: So after he’d work until the wee hours of the morning, would he sleep until noon? ROZ: Yes, I’d let him sleep late. TJKC: So then would he spend the afternoons with you and the kids? ROZ: Right. If I had to do my food shopping, he’d stay with the kids. We did a lot of things together. He helped me a lot with the children. He was very good about that. TJKC: So then he’d start back to work drawing after dinner? ROZ: Yes, the kids would be quiet, they’d have their dinner and their baths, and they’d be put to bed. Then he’d sit down and do his artwork. TJKC: Did you get to take some nice vacations around then? ROZ: No, we couldn’t afford vacations. We’d go up to visit my sister. She lived up in the Catskills in the summertime. But we never took any real vacations with the children, or even by ourselves. I did go to Europe with my brother. My brother was working for the airlines, and I had three children at the time. I was in my thirties, and I said I needed a vacation. So Jack says, “Go. I’ll take care of the kids.” So I went with my brother Larry to Europe. We landed in Helsinki, stayed a couple of days in Norway, Denmark, a day in Paris. It was a very fast trip, two weeks. But I had a good time. When the kids were older, Jack and I went to Israel, before he passed on, about eight years ago. That was great, because he always wanted to go there, to see the Wall. He put a note in the Wall, so I said to him, “What did you write?” And he says, “Thanks for the vacation.” (laughter) We were there for about three weeks. We went with our temple, with a group of about 40 people. We had a great time, because they took us to the out-of-the-way places. We were up on the Gaza Strip, and right on the borders. It was very, very exciting. Everybody should do it. I’m glad that, before he passed on, he got to go on that trip that he wanted.

To tell you the truth, it’s difficult for me to remember. TJKC: Through the years, did you generally see what Jack was working on? Or were you too busy taking care of the kids? ROZ: Oh, no. I always looked at his work. I’d tell him if I liked the story, or if I didn’t like the story, or if I liked the drawings. I always put my input in. Of course, he still did what he wanted to do, (laughter) but I still gave him my opinion.

TJKC: How much inking did you do over the years? ROZ: Well, when we were in my mother’s house, in the bedroom, we had two tables there, and I would help him ink while the kids were sleeping. He would do most of the outlines, because his hand was steadier than mine, and he knew how to make it thick and thin. And you know how he’s so good at putting in all his shading. He made it very easy for the inkers because he put in all the shading. It was very easy for me to just go over his shading lines.

TJKC: Well, that’s called “being married!” (ROZ laughs) But did he discuss the ideas with you as he was coming up with them? ROZ: No, he never discussed the ideas, because he would sit down at the board, right? With the paper blank, he would just start drawing. I’d ask, “How do you know what the story is?” He’d say, “I know what the story is.” Like when he was doing the trilogy—The New Gods— three books at one time, or four books. I said, “How do you know when one story starts and one story ends?” He says, “Because I just know.” And that’s the way he was. He’d put a hand in one panel, and

ning to attend several comic conventions to

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addition to getting caught up on work, we’re plan-

TJKC: Do you remember which specific books you inked? ROZ: You’d have to ask Mike Thibodeaux. He would know. (laughter)

newspaper a few weeks ago. There’s this guy called Captain Comics who writes articles every so often. And he mentioned Stan Lee and Jack Kirby... and said they were before their time, because they did the things with the x-rays, and the mutants, and he had a quote from this very well-known scientist from one of these famous places. And he said that these two guys were way before their time, before we even came up with these things. And it’s true; you remember these gadgets he would dream up and everything? He was always that way.

Joe then inked and colored it, adding his own special touches and a change of dialogue.

TJKC: Like in Jimmy Olsen, with the clones? Outside of a few scientists, I don’t think that anybody knew about that stuff. ROZ: Yes. And I would say to him, “How do you know all these things?” And he said when he was a boy he used to read a lot, and imagine things. My garage is filled with boxes and boxes of science fiction books. TJKC: Did he find time to read through the years, even while he was drawing so much? ROZ: He must’ve done it before he met me, because after I met him, I didn’t see him read too many things. If he had to do a little research, he went to the library, but he didn’t stay there too often. When I’d ask him what he’d been looking for, he’d say, “I don’t know, I can’t find it.” And he’d go make up his own. (laughter) TJKC: I’ve read that, as a child, he loved to go to the movies. ROZ: Yes, he went to the movies every Saturday because it was ten cents, and his parents used to bring him to the theater. He loved movies, he loved acting. He wanted to be an actor as a young man, because he lived around the same neighborhood as John Garfield. That’s why he liked Cagney, you know, those tough guys. The story is, his mother wouldn’t let him go to California to become an actor, because there were naked women there. (laughter) I’m glad she didn’t let him go, because I wouldn’t have met him. (laughter)

a foot in another panel, and somehow it all came together.

TJKC: Did he still watch a lot of movies as the years went by? ROZ: Yes. We didn’t go to the movies that much, but he watched a lot of TV. Then when the kids were older, we used to rent a lot of movies. He’d rent about four movies a day. We’d go into the store, and the guy would say, “I don’t know if I have any new ones for you, Jack.” (laughter)

TJKC: Did he spend lots of time just sitting there thinking, or did it just come out of him as he sat down to draw? ROZ: I never saw him just sit and stare at the paper, and he never used a blue pencil. He just sat down there and drew away. If he found that he couldn’t do it, he’d just keep away from the board. But that wasn’t too often.

TJKC: Who was your favorite inker on Jack’s work? ROZ: You know, Mike Thibodeaux would come to the house and show people the artwork and say, “This inker, that inker.” I can’t tell one from the other. The one I used to like very much was Joe Sinnott. And then of course, when Mike Royer started inking on Jack’s stuff, I think Jack scared the hell out of him. He said, “Don’t change anything!” So Mike didn’t change one line. (laughter) He did everything exactly with the shadows where Jack put them. He did a good job. In fact, I saw him a couple of weeks ago, over at Mike Thibodeaux’s house. He had quite a few of the guys there, so I saw a lot of the folks I haven’t seen in awhile.

TJKC: It seems like everything he did was 30 years ahead of its time. ROZ: Yes. He was always that way. There was an article in our local be sitting aro und doing nothing all summer. In

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n’t happen either. Oh well...) Anyway, don’t think we’ll

TJKC: A lot of writers get writer’s block. Did he ever hit a long stretch where he just couldn’t come up with anything new? ROZ: I can’t remember a time. I really can’t. I’d always say to him, “How do you think up these things?” He’d just say, “I don’t know. I just do.” I always said he was born before his time. I said I thought the aliens would come and pick him up and take him back. (laughter)

TJKC: I hear they threw a birthday party for you! ROZ: Yes. My sister was in town, so I thought they were just throwing a little party for her going home. And then they started giving me things, and I said, “What’s this?” They said it was for my birthday, and I said, “My birthday was three months ago, are you crazy?!” (laughter) Mike’s conscience was bothering him because he forgot my birthday, so he threw me a belated birthday party. It was great, everybody was there. Mell Lazarus was there, and David Folkman, all the guys, and Mike Royer. It was very nice, I had a good time. TJKC: Steve Sherman told me that your son Neal has some very funny and scary stories about Jack driving the kids to school in New York. ROZ: Well, you know, Jack’s head was always in the clouds. He never concentrated on his driving. So he’d go over curbs. (laughter) There was one time where, it was daylight, the sun was shining, and he actually hit this police car in the back. (laughter) It didn’t cause any damage. The officer got out and said, “What do you think you’re doing?!” So of course Jack apologized and everything. The guy shook his head, and he didn’t give him a ticket. He couldn’t believe that he hit him in the middle of the day. (laughter) The day before our wedding, Jack was driving his mother’s car for some errands, and the dog was in the car. I think the dog threw up, so he hit a stanchion—it’s like a big pole, like a double-layer; you have the top layer over the parkway, then you have the bottom layer. And if he hadn’t hit that, he’d have gone flying down to the bottom part of it. That was the day before our marriage. So nobody ever wanted to drive with him. (laughter) When we came to California, I said, “Forget it. You’re not gonna get your driver’s license.” (laughter) I always say that’s why we stayed married so long, because he couldn’t go anyplace without me, I was doing the chauffeuring. (laughter)

TJKC: There was that one year of Fantastic Four, from issue #44 up to #56 or so, where Jack created the Silver Surfer, The Inhumans, Galactus, the Black Panther, etc. Was anything happening in his personal life that caused him to create all those characters in one year? ROZ: I don’t think so. I used to say to him, “Why are you giving them all of these things?” And he would always say to me, “Look, I have a family to support. If the books keep going, then I make a living.” And he couldn’t stop creating. He had to do something new, he just couldn’t do the same thing constantly. And that’s the way he was. To him it wasn’t realizing he was making all these guys millionaires and everything, that he wasn’t getting anything out of it. To him, he was making his living. It kept the books exciting, and kept the kids interested, and he kept going that way.

TJKC: Do you remember where you were when John Kennedy was shot? ROZ: We were... I guess we were both home. We heard it on the TV, and then we just kept listening to the TV all that day. TJKC: Did that strongly affect both of you? ROZ: Oh, yes. We thought he was a good man, and we were affected just like the rest of the people were. We were just shocked about the entire thing. TJKC: That reminds me of the Jack Ruby story Jack did in Esquire. ROZ: Yes. Not too many people know about that story. I still have a few copies.

TJKC: About halfway through Jack’s run on Fantastic Four, the credits changed to read “Produced by Lee and Kirby.” Was that the result of Jack actively asking for it? ROZ: Of course! He used to ask for it all the time. Stan was a talented man. I’m not gonna take anything away from Stan. He was a talented man. He did well with the books, with putting in the words and things. He was always very friendly with us. TJKC: To read the editorial pages, it sounded as if Jack and Stan were the best of buddies, and they hung out together all the time. ROZ: No, no. I think we went to Stan’s house once. We met Stan’s wife Joan a couple of times. She was a very sweet lady. She didn’t get mixed up with the comics too much. She didn’t go to the conventions like I did. We always asked for a lot of things all the time, and finally they put down “Produced by...” because it’s just ridiculous, you know. I don’t think Jack would’ve fought if I didn’t kick him in the pants. (laughter) I think I was more angry than he was. TJKC: Well, I guess he could always work out his frustrations on paper. ROZ: Yes, that’s true. TJKC: The last couple of years of Fantastic Four, Jack didn’t really create any new characters. Was this a conscious effort to not give Marvel

issue to be out by April Fo o l’s Day, but that did-

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Hallo ween, but that’s the way it goes. I wanted this

San Diego Comic-Con founder Shel Dorf with Roz and Jack in the 1980s.

any new characters, or did he just lose interest? ROZ: Well, I guess it could’ve been a little bit of everything. He was just trying to think of which way to turn, which way to go.

take it anymore. I’m not gonna have Jack get sick.” And we sold it after living there two years. (Editor’s Note: Roz previously told me these motorcycle riders were the inspiration for the Outsiders gang in Jimmy Olsen.) Lisa had a horse, because we always promised that if we moved to California, we’d get her a horse. So we built a little corral about 30 steps down, and she promised she’d clean it up, and she’d do this and that. So it ended up that Jack was down there pitching the horse manure over the fence every day. (laughter)

TJKC: Wasn’t he working on his ideas for New Gods then? ROZ: Actually, he had that idea for quite a while before he even used it. And then when DC approached him, he said, “Well, I have these new ideas. Are you interested?” And they said, “Yes.” We had already come out to California. We came out for my daughter Lisa’s health. She had asthma.

TJKC: At the motorcycle gangs? (laughter) ROZ: Well, he couldn’t reach that far, but between the motorcycles and pitching horse manure, that was the end of that house. (laughter)

TJKC: I had always heard that it was your asthma. ROZ: No, we didn’t come out for my asthma. Mine was just about gone already. We came out because my youngest daughter wasn’t well, and the cold weather wasn’t good for her. So I said to Jack, “As long as you can work anyplace, why can’t we try someplace else?” And that’s what we did.

TJKC: You mentioned Jack couldn’t change a tire. Was he much of a handyman? Could he fix things around the house? ROZ: No, no. I’m the one who did all that. I changed the lightbulbs, fixed fixtures, did this and did that. I couldn’t do big things, but... he always said, “If we can afford it, get somebody else so they can make a living. I can’t do it.” (laughter) He never wanted to, and never could do it.

TJKC: It was pretty amazing that a company like Marvel would value an artist highly enough to let them mail in their work, since that wasn’t done at that time. ROZ: Yes. He was the first one. Then everybody started following us.

TJKC: Did you both always think of comics as an art-form? At what point did it stop being just a way of putting bread on the table?

TJKC: Was it difficult leaving New York for California? Didn’t you leave a lot of family behind? ROZ: Oh yes. My oldest daughter stayed back there. My sisters, my brothers, and all my relations; we were all very close. The first year we lived out here, I cried every night, I was so lonely. And then when I went back to New York, I realized that you can’t go back. And I was glad to come back to California. I always had somebody flying out to visit. It was nice. Some of them started moving out this way. In fact, I have three relatives living here in Thousand Oaks. And my son came out, and my two youngest daughters are here. TJKC: Tell me about the house you built in California. ROZ: We bought the land, and we built this beautiful Spanish house from the plans. We had to do a lot with the lawyers and the builders, and finally got the thing built. And we lived over in Baranca. We lived on one level that looked down into a valley with a stream. There were these beautiful green acres, with sheep grazing there. Just beautiful. And after we were living there for awhile, all of a sudden we hear, “Vroooom! Vrooooooom!” All this noise! And these motorcycles were down there. We lived right on Baranca, and it’s like a funnel, and Jack’s studio is right overlooking it. The noise was so loud, it was terrible, and it went right into Jack’s studio. We’d complain to MGM, who owned the property at that time. They said there wasn’t anything they could do about it. Then we called the newspapers, and they took a picture of Jack pointing down into the valley. They called him Superman because they always said all the super-heroes were Superman. So the headline read, “Even Superman Can’t Get Rid Of Them.” (laughter) We said we didn’t mind the kids using their motorcycles down there, but to just put mufflers on them. But they wouldn’t do it, and the police would go after them on their motorcycles, and we’d have double the noise! (laughter) And then finally they had a meeting, and the parents complained that, because of us, the kids were going to turn to drugs, because we were chasing them off their motorcycles. (laughter) So we lived there two years in this beautiful home. And I finally said, “It’s no use. We can’t 13

time for Christmas.

(It pains me to not be able to put #13 out for

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A very happy Hulk, drawn in 1976.

ROZ: Well, he always wanted his art back from the beginning. He always thought that the art was valuable, and from the beginning he’d always ask them for his art back. They said no, they don’t do that, they were preserving it in their warehouses and all that stuff, so it was an ongoing thing. Until I had to get the lawyers, so it cost us a lot of money to get the artwork back, as much as we got back. Jack always thought of his art as art, he always thought of comic books as art.

thought of lawyers and agents and things like that to protect ourselves. Plus it was a job. TJKC: At what point did you realize comic fandom was really serious; was it when fans started coming to your house? ROZ: When these comic conventions came, and you could see them selling things. Sometimes I’d go around to the conventions and see Jack’s work being sold. I’d say, “Where did they get all this stuff?” It really hurt to seem them making all this money, and everybody saying we can’t get our artwork back. But everybody had the artwork. In fact I have this one Boy Commandos #1 page on the wall where Jack and Joe are on the page. Jack said they were ready to burn that, and he took it right out of the guy’s arm. He had to steal his own art page back. TJKC: When did fans first start stopping by your house to visit Jack? In the late 1960s? ROZ: Yes, that’s when Shel Dorf started bringing everybody around. The first time Shel brought them, we were renting a house. We had just moved out to California, so we rented a condominium in Irvine. He brought up a whole crew from San Diego. I think the first convention they had was in a college. Shel started all this stuff, and look what they have now. 30,000, 35,000 people at the San Diego Convention? I liked the old ones better. We were able to sit around the pool and all of us talk until the wee hours of the morning, and we had a great time. Now it’s so large, you don’t get to see anyone. Everyone’s at different hotels, and it’s not the same.

TJKC: How did you view it, at age 19 marrying a comic book artist... ROZ: At that time I didn’t think of how much the art was worth or anything like that. To me he was making a nice living, and he was popular, and people were getting to know him. But I never thought of the art as... you know, what sold then for $10 would go for $2000 now. Whoever thought of it? When we were young kids, we never

TJKC: With all these people coming by the house, how did Jack get any work done? At one point, didn’t you have a very steady stream of people coming through? ROZ: There used to be a time where every weekend, we’d have people coming over. And finally my kids would complain, “God, we don’t do anything!” (laughter) So finally I said to Jack, “Look, tell them they have to call first. If we have nothing to do, let them come. Otherwise, we have to start doing things with the kids.”

(this page and next two pages) More uninked pencils from Jimmy Olsen #139. 14

off!). After that will come #13 in December, and it’ll

be our “Monsters & Magic” theme issue, just in

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TJKC: So people showed up unannounced? ROZ: Well, most of the time they would call, but Jack could never say no. “Yes, sure, c’mon up.” I remember there was one family who was going cross-country in their Winnebago. They came up to the driveway; a mother, father, and three kids. They said, “Is this Jack Kirby’s family?” I said yes. She says, “We’re driving through, and we just wanted to shake Jack’s hand.” (laughter) It was about ninety degrees outside, it was July. So I said, “C’mon in a minute.” I gave them some cold drinks, and there were young kids, ten or twelve years old. So I said, “Would you kids like to go for a swim?” They said, “Oh, great!” So they all went swimming, and I made them some sandwiches. So when they’re ready to leave, the mother says, “I can’t believe this. You’re like regular people!” (laughter) I mean, we’re not

in Hollywood here! (laughter) So we always got along with everyone. When people would come, Jack would start telling them his war stories, and I’d walk out of the room because I’d heard them a million times. (laughter) TJKC: So most of the visits were on the weekends. Did Jack normally work on weekends, or just on weekdays? ROZ: No, he worked on weekends. He worked seven days a week. He’d work at nighttime, y’know. TJKC: Who was the Kirby fan in that family with the Winnebago? The father or one of the kids? ROZ: I think there was a fourteen-year-old boy, and he was the fan. They promised the kid that if he went on the trip, they’d try to stop by. But they didn’t call or anything, they just came up there and knocked on the door; if we’re in, we’re in. But when fans came over, I was always sending out for food. I figured, “If people come to visit, I’ve got to give them something.” (laughter) And they’d call constantly, and speak to him for two or three hours on the phone. And I’d yell, “Jack, the other phone’s ringing!” But there was no other phone. (laughter) And then he’d get angry with me because I got him off the phone. And he’d say, “How could you do that?” And I’d say, “For Pete’s sake, you’re on the phone for two hours. Enough’s enough.” TJKC: But it sounds like he really liked talking to them. ROZ: Yes, he did. He did. Like now, when my sister was visiting for a couple of weeks. Mike would come over with the guys, and I’d be in the bedroom watching TV and he’d come over and ask me something. And she’d say, “How can you stand all that tumult?” Do you know what the word ‘tumult’ means? TJKC: Yes. (Editor’s note: A ‘tumult’ is a commotion or uproar.) ROZ: So I said, “It keeps me young, it keeps me interesting, it keeps everything interesting, and I don’t mind it.” And I don’t, because I feel Jack’s presence is around me with the young people around, looking at his work, and enjoying it. I like it. ROZ: Well, I know that Jack enjoyed it, and as long as he enjoyed it... then after awhile, of course, I cut down quite a bit. But at the beginning it was a big novelty. Sometimes there’d be a couple that would be pesty, that wouldn’t let go, you know. And I’d have to say, “He’s not here” or something like that when they’re on the phone. But that wasn’t too often.

TJKC: Didn’t it reach a point where all these people interfered with his work? ROZ: Never did. He was always so fast. I don’t know how he did it. He was always very fast. TJKC: What’s the most amazing thing a fan ever did to meet Jack? ROZ: I don’t know. There’s been quite a few people coming up and... there’s one couple that came in, and she fell into the pool with her brand new camera, and I felt so bad. (laughter) And then there was one group that came from Europe, I think there was about 30 of them. All 30 were walking around the house, and I sent down for 30 McDonalds meals. (laughter)

TJKC: I heard that a guy once hitchhiked there and stayed at your house. ROZ: Oh yes. Remember when they had this thing in the papers about these aliens coming down for these people? These two guys called themselves “The Sun” and “The Moon” or something. They came to the house, they were clean-cut, shaven, had short haircuts. They’d left their wives, sold their businesses, and they were going up to Oregon or somewhere to wait for the ship. And they came to take Jack along with them. (laughter) I said to Jack, “What are you talking

Issue, which I guarantee will knock your socks

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O ctober (it’ll still be the International Theme

TJKC: How could you stand all this? I don’t think I could handle that much of an imposition on my privacy.

about? Why did you let these people in?” Jack said, “Well, they looked pretty good.” (laughter) So we gave them oranges and a couple of bucks, and took them over to the freeway so they could hitchhike up to Oregon. We had this young kid who ran away from home and joined the circus, and he came over to the house. So we let him sleep over, then we put him on a bus to go home. (laughter) So we had all those crazy experiences. TJKC: You are one very patient lady! (laughter) ROZ: Well, it’s true, I did have a lot of patience. I guess that’s what kept me going all these years; my patience. We’ve gone through a lot in our lifetime. It wasn’t all honey and bread; we had a lot of tumult and problems, like every family. But you work it out. I was glad Jack was alive to see his 50th anniversary. We had a very nice gathering of all our relatives. TJKC: When did Jack start working on his novel The Horde? ROZ: Oh, God. He worked on that novel when we first moved here. It must’ve been 17 or 18 years ago. He did about 350 pages, and then he got scared, because he said every time he was writing something, it was coming true in the newspapers. And he was so sure that he was going to end the world! (laughter) But his mind was so... he just saw into the future. It wasn’t written like a comic book. The words are so beautiful. My cousin is a teacher, and she said he’s just as good as any of the well-known writers. But he scared himself when he started writing it. And he never wanted to finish it, and it always frustrated me because I wanted it finished. He just put it down. TJKC: Will more stories from it eventually be printed? ROZ: Yes, some things are in the works. We’re not sure yet which direction we want to go. So we’ll see. TJKC: Did your kids really understand how important their dad was to the comics industry? ROZ: I think so. The grandkids do. Tracy saves a lot of his things, and Jeremy is going to be a writer. He does such beautiful writing. He writes some great stories. He’s 171⁄2, and he loves doing photography. He wants to be a movie director. So he’s going in that direction. He says he wants to keep his grandfather’s name famous. Tracy’s 23. She’s an underwater archaeologist. She’s graduating from Boston University this year, and going on for her Master’s. She’s a smart little cookie.

roll occasionally. (laughter) He liked the old musicals, with James Cagney. If I see a movie once, I can’t replay it; that’s enough for me. But he could play James Cagney over and over again. TJKC: Was Jack a good dancer? ROZ: No, we were both lousy dancers. (laughter) We didn’t go dancing much. You know, weddings and bar mitzvahs and things like that.

TJKC: Did any of the kids inherit their dad’s artistic ability? ROZ: My middle daughter Barbara does beautiful artwork. When she was in her teens she did a lot of artwork, but not in comics. She liked to do animals and things. I have a lot of her drawings. She was very artistic.

TJKC: What did you do for fun over the years? Did you have any particular hobbies, or was raising kids your hobby? ROZ: Well, it was a full-time job. I liked to go out to dinner a lot, and I liked to go to the movies. I liked to see my friends and my relatives, and get together with couples and just reminisce, and talk about things. But then we started having grandkids, and I was busy with them too. Neal’s kids were born in the same town here, so I’d be there every day helping out. That was great watching the kids grow up. I

which means that issue #12 will come out in

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even better. There just won’t be an August issue,

TJKC: What type of music did you and Jack like? ROZ: I like classical, and I like Barbra Streisand, and show music. I’d hear Jack play all kinds of things. I’d even hear him playing rock-and-

like that. I’ll be going down to Florida at the end of January to see my brother and my sister-in-law. My sister’s going to be there, so it’ll be the family getting together for the first time in awhile. That’ll be nice. We went to Lucca, Italy, and got that award in the 1970s. We were invited to quite a few places, but Jack never liked to fly. He dreaded to fly. Even when we went to Israel, I had to practically get him drunk to get him on the plane. (laughter) He’d say he liked to put his feet on the ground. He hated being in a place where he didn’t have any control.

when the kids started coming, those were kind of our happiest. We didn’t make a fortune, but we always had a nice house and nice friends and family around. He was creating things, but there wasn’t all this stuff going on with “who did this” and “who did that.” We didn’t have all that on our heads. We were young then, and had less pressure. TJKC: As for being creatively fulfilled, what about when he first went to DC in 1970, and it looked like he could do anything he wanted? ROZ: Yes, it’s probably then, when he was doing the New Gods series, and everybody left him alone, and he was able to put it down on paper, and they didn’t bother him too much. If he said something, they’d say, “Okay, Jack.” And they left him alone that way. And either it was good, or it wasn’t good, and he’d get lots of opinions. Some people hated his writing and some people loved it. Not everyone likes everything. But he always said he’d always do the best he could.

TJKC: So the man who drew all these characters flying through the air... ROZ: Right. He didn’t like to fly. I’d say to him, “You’re some superhero.” (laughter) TJKC: Did Jack’s religious beliefs come out a lot in the stories he created? ROZ: Oh yes. You need to know he wasn’t a religious man who would go to the temple every day and on weekends like his father did. He still believed in his faith, and he liked to read the Bible. He liked to read about the gods and things like that. He enjoyed drawing the gods the way he would see it. In his eyes, everything was so big. We’d go to the temple on holidays and New Year’s and things like that, and I said, “Don’t you think we ought to go more often?” And he said, “I love God, and I believe in God. And I’m still a good person even though I don’t go into the temple.” That’s the way he felt. He was still good in his own heart, and he didn’t have to go there to prove it. So I never forced him. But we went on holidays and things like that.

TJKC: Roz, thanks so much for taking time to do this interview. ROZ: I enjoyed it.

A very “zoftig” Big Barda.

TJKC: Who is your favorite Kirby character? ROZ: I liked the New Gods series. I liked Highfather. I liked Lightray, I thought he was very handsome. Quite a few of the characters from that era I liked. TJKC: Were any of Jack’s characters ever based on you? Other than that one airplane in Boy Commandos. ROZ: I hope it wasn’t! (laughter) TJKC: I meant it was named after you! (laughter) ROZ: I don’t know. When he’d send me home pictures from the war, he’d have these beautiful drawings. I said, “That’s not me.” He says, “That’s the way I visualize you.” (laughter) I thought that was very sweet. He always liked big women. I’d say, “Am I that big?” (laughter) TJKC: So he liked women shaped like the ones he drew? ROZ: Yes. Do you know what the word ‘zoftig’ means? TJKC: Oh, yeah! ROZ: He liked soft women. (laughter) TJKC: Well that explains why they all look that way in his books. ROZ: Yes. (laughter) TJKC: One last question. Is there one period that stands out in your mind as Jack’s happiest creatively, or when you were both the happiest together? ROZ: Well, that’s a very difficult question. Every period had highs and lows. I guess 17

fact, by taking an issue off, we’ll be able to come

back with a fresh perspective, and make TJKC

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Simon & Kirby’s Early Humor by R.J. Vitone

We Rate MY DATE Comics! roduced at a time when the comics industry was in an economic slump, My Date Comics ran its short course and just disappeared back in 1948. At first glance, it was an uninspired effort... but it did serve as an important piece of Jack Kirby’s career. When World War II ended, public tastes changed. Comic book publishers saw sales dip sharply, and did what many businessmen had to do to stay in business; they panicked! Titles were canceled. Artists, writers, inkers, and whole production staffs were let go. Entire new titles and concepts were published, untried, and left to sell or die. And the most talented artist/writer team of all had to ride along with the trend. But Jack and Joe never just went along with the pack. Since the superhero market that they helped define was weak, they just created new ones! In the five years after WWII, Simon & Kirby developed, wrote and drew the first-ever romance comic. And My Date was their prototype. (They also revamped crime strips and westerns during this period, but that’s a story for another time.) Hillman Publications was a second-rate comics company headquartered in Chicago. (I live in Chicago, and I have to admit that as a kid I went over to their address in search of a leftover stash of Golden Age treasures. It was still a printing house, but no one

(above) Cover to My Date #1. The teenage conflict was right out of M.L.J.’s Archie. (below) #2, page 9—House-Date Harry will go to any length to invade your home and stay forever. (left) Oversized “Kid Gang” thugs cause trouble... (next page)...but any trouble can be resolved with a crashing bit of Simon & Kirby action! (below) The entire cast of characters assembles for the first splash page.

it was time to take a little time off. BUT DO N’T PANIC!

We’re not ceasing publication permanently. In

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there listened to me.) Airboy was their main title, so they must have been happy to have Joe and Jack bring in new strips. My Date Comics hit the stands in the Spring of 1947. By the time issue #4 was published in early 1948, S&K had set up a deal with Crestwood Publications. The result was Young Romance Comics #1 (Summer, 1947). My Date had shown the way. In style and content, it was light and an easy read. But the public bought it, and a new genre was formed. As usual, Jack Kirby was there.

Punch And Judy Comics Done for Hillman Periodicals’ Punch And Judy Comics at the same period as My Date Comics, “Lockjaw The Alligator” was filler all the way. Lockjaw was a walking, talking Alligator with baggy pants, a bow tie, and a Brooklyn accent. He and his small pal Prof were bums on the road, and their adventures were standard “funny-book” fare with small flashes of S&K style. “Earl The Rich Rabbit” was the other side of the funny animal coin. He was rich, talked in an English accent, and had a trusty butler on hand. The bad guys of the strip, the McSnargles, lived in a shack near the rabbit’s mansion. They were always causing trouble, but the cultured Earl seemed unaware and uncaring.

Meet Uncle Giveaway, From WIN-A-PRIZE COMICS! Just as baseball players don’t hit homers every time at bat, Jack did work on some real flops through his long career. One Panels from Punch And Judy Comics Vol. 2, #11 (June 1947): (lower left) Page 3, Panels 4 & 6—Lockjaw uses his pal Prof as a bat whenever the mood hits him. (below) Page 6, Panels 1-4—In a strange twist, all the dentists in town want to pull Lockjaw’s teeth. Prof ‘swings’ into action.

ing advertising for our clients, we’re busy getting

the next issue of TJKC together. So we decided

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Panels from Punch And Judy Comics Vol. 3, #2 (Dec. 1947):

(above) Page 3, Panel 4—McSnargle robs the rabbit just as a fox hunt begins! (below) Page 5, Panel 1—The fox rats out the culprit. (right) Page 6, Panels 1-4—A definite S&K finale!

prime example is Win-A-Prize Comics #1 and 2, from Charlton Publications in 1955. The book was an early type of interactive experience. Readers were bribed with the promise of prizes to send in plots, answers, ideas, and short stories. It lasted (?) two issues. As usual, Jack did some nice pieces for the book. And like it or not, the host of the comic, Uncle Giveaway, has become a part of the Kirby lexicon. Done near the end of the Fighting American run, the art is similar in style and layout. Even “No-Face” Benny and Sam The Happy Wholesaler could be right out of that satirical comic’s pages! Jack and Joe took the day off in producing these strips. The stories are light, simple, and colorful. In other words, comics for kids in the truest sense! Jack’s figures are fluid and airy, and the action is out-and-out slapstick. Even so, some classic Kirby touches show through, and these obscure strips deserve more than a quick look!

(left) Splash from Win-A-Prize #1—The giveaway concept must’ve worked; the coupon has been cut out! (above) From Win-A-Prize #1—Sam The Happy Wholesaler gives “No-Face” Benny the “business” as Uncle Giveaway steps in to help out. 20

gotten any time off from work (not even week-

ends) since Christmas. When we’re not produc-

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➡ far; great news, except that Pam and I haven’t

A Toy Story by John Morrow

21 It’s not very often you get to see Jack draw Tarzan and the Lone Ranger! The white spaces above are where the decks of cards were inserted in each package. It’s interesting that Green Arrow (instead of the more well-known Batman) was chosen to be on the back of the Superman game. Maybe DC was afraid of what a Kirby Batman would look like! TwoMorrows Advertising has had a banner year so

n 1971, Mattel (a major manufacturer of children’s games) decided to produce a series of Card Game Puzzles; one each based on the Lone Ranger, Tarzan, and Superman. Besides needing packaging art for all three, the Superman game involved assembling cards into jigsaw-like pictures, so four Superman drawings had to be done. These games were going to be done in a limited pressing and test-marketed in select areas of the US. Alex Toth was originally asked to do the art, but when he became unavailable, he recommended Jack for the job. Jack ended up doing the drawings, Mike Royer inked them, and Mattel was delighted with the result. But just like on the Jimmy Olsen comic, DC insisted that Murphy Anderson redraw Jack’s Superman heads. Presented here is the front and back packaging art, with the Superman Card drawings shown on the next two pages.

Theme Issue), we’re go ing to take the summer o ff from TJKC. The main reason is we’re just plain exhausted!

➡ Here are the four Superman drawings Jack did for the Mattel Card Game Puzzles in 1971. Inks are by Mike Royer. As you can see, DC had Murphy Anderson redraw the Superman

faces (although, strangely enough, the Jimmy Olsen faces remained untouched). Card #2 is shown above with the original Kirby face intact (the inset is the published Anderson face).

for it anywhere else. Now, Let me take this opportunity to make a BIG anno uncement: After next issue (our Hollywood

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Favorite Stories About Jack We asked fans and pros tell us stories about their most interesting and (ofttimes unintentionally) hilarious encounters with Jack, and some of the stories they heard about him over the years. Keep in mind that Jack was not only a consummate storyteller on the comics page, but in real life as well. Since he sometimes tended to exaggerate (making his stories get better as time went on), take his stories with a grain of salt!

the lines of,“Well, you shouldn’t have called then!” What did Jack say? He said, “Well, I can appreciate that. I apologize for keeping you on so long. And listen, feel free to call again anytime!” He apologized!!!! At the time, I couldn’t believe it. Later, I came to realize that it was typical Jack. He just saw me as a kid that was worried about running up a huge phone bill, and he was simply being sympathetic and considerate. It was Jack demonstrating one simple fact – he cared. And that was what Jack was all about. He was a very considerate man. And I can’t help but smile whenever I think of the time that I called Jack Kirby and he apologized for keeping me on so long!!

King byOfPeterHis Castle? Von Sholly visited the Kirbys at their home in 1976 and was duly awed by both the array of original artwork on the walls and the incredible hospitality I was shown. Roz offered coffee and cake and Jack spun stories of World War II, his philosophy, the comics biz, etc. But at one point, Roz came out of the kitchen and asked Jack to take the garbage out! I was stunned. Roz looked at me, smiled and said, “He may be the King, but I’m the Queen.” And Jack cheerfully took the garbage out.

A byPuff Piece Harold May note about Jack’s cigars: The proper name for the cigar company is Roi-Tan, and the actual cigars Jack smoked were Roi-Tan Falcons. How do I know? When I met Jack in Nashville in 1972, he handed me a 5-dollar bill and sent me out to pick up a couple of boxes for him.

The Phone Call by Chris Harper, Editor of The Jack Kirby Quarterly in England n the Summer of 1986, I was 18 years old, and I’d just become a member of the short-lived UK “Kirby-APA.” An APA-Zine is like a fanzine except there’s only about 10 members/readers, and you all individually produce your own “fanzine” and send it to the “Central Mailer” who collates the ’zines and mails ’em back out. One day, I was with my cousin Steve (a fellow Kirby fanatic) and I had an idle, almost sarcastic thought. I said, “Hey! We could interview Kirby for the next K-APA!!” I think I got a blank expression in response, but what was initially a joke quickly became a (semi-) serious concept. In 1983, Jack had sent me a wonderful 2-page letter which included his personal address. I thought of this and said to Steve, “We’ve got his address. Let’s try paging his number!” Yeah, right. Like, a living legend such as Jack Kirby would be listed. Dream on. At this time, we hadn’t much knowledge of how much phone calls to the US would cost, so we were terrified of the consequence of making a fairly lengthy call to California. On top of that, while we made this call my Mom was sitting a matter of 6 feet away, hearing everything we said and, I imagine, watching the clock very closely. To our surprise we got the number and tried it. A lady answered, who I now know was Roz. I gave her the usual line about wanting to interview Jack, and without question she said, “Hold on.” Was this it? Was I was about to speak to the King himself?!? Suddenly, a voice came over the line – and although I’d never heard Jack’s voice before, I knew who the hoarse, almost whispered, tones belonged to immediately. So, I spoke to him... and I asked him some of the stupidest questions you ever heard. Then I handed it over to Steve, who asked him the second half of our collection of supremely cretinous queries. And he answered them all, patiently and without sign of strain or annoyance. Steve handed it back to me and I spoke to him a while longer. I was well aware of my Mom throughout the conversation, who was letting out quite audible groans every time we said something dumb – which was, basically, everything we said. That fact, coupled with my worry of how much the phone call was costing, made me start to panic somewhat. And in the midst of this panic, I came up with one of the most tactless remarks you could ever hope to make. I said, “Anyway, we’d better go now. This call must be costing us a fortune!” My Mom let out the biggest groan yet. I think it was something like, “Oh, God!!!” And I realized what I’d said. I think I could’ve reasonably expected a sarcastic reply from most people; something along

section (for this issue only), and still had to add

eight p ages to this issue. So there wasn’t room

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I’ve often wondered if Captain America’s partner was named after Jack’s cigar—and I suspect that he probably was!

Kirby &by Cap In WWII! Jerry Boyd hile promoting his book The Art of Jack Kirby in March 1993, the “King,” his lovely wife Roz and his granddaughter visited our local comics store and regaled a rapt audience with some great stories. One of ’em took place near the end of WWII, when the American soldiers felt duty and patriotism had been served amply. “We all knew,” Kirby explained, “that the end of the war was near and everyone was anxious to get home in one piece. So when the senior officers came looking for volunteers to scout ahead for enemy positions, everyone either got busy with other jobs or quickly found their way to the rear.” “Well, one day my luck ran out and I heard: ‘KIRBY!! Get up here!’ It was a scouting mission, alright, and desperate for any excuse to get out of it, I said something like, “Don’t send me, Major. I’m too valuable back home!”” “What do you mean, Kirby?” “I draw Captain America.” “What?” “I draw Captain America... the comic book hero... millions of people back home follow his adventures.” “And you... draw the stories ?” “Yeah!” “Well, I’m sending you anyway. Since you draw these tough guy stories, you should have no problem figuring out how to get around the Nazis.” Everyone howled with laughter. A great tale from a great talent and a great man.

Jack “hams” it up (literally!) with a belly dancer at a 1990 CFA-APA meeting in San Diego. (photo by Al Czarnecki) light on in the bathroom so you can find your way in the dark.” I reassured Jack that it wasn’t necessary. Jack left to go back to his bedroom. About one minute later, I saw a light turn on again and it was Jack. He said, “Let me leave the bathroom light on so you can find your way if you have to go.” I said, “That’s a good idea Jack. I appreciate that.” He said ‘good night’ and went to bed, this time for good. I’ll always keep in mind what Jack warned me about used car salesmen. When Jack was young, he bought a car from a guy named “Smiling Ira.” But this wasn’t just any car. The car’s previous owner was a gangster and the car was bulletproofed. “Man, this car was heavy,” Jack informed me. “It was the first car I ever owned and it felt great driving this car because I knew I’d be safe in it. But there was a problem with this car; it didn’t have any brakes. I had to drive this car real slow because a car that heavy ain’t easy to stop.” The moral of the story Jack insisted was this: “Never buy a car from anyone named Smiling Ira because you never know what you’ll be buying.” Jack also warned me that Nixon wouldn’t do me any better either.

A Few Kirby Moments by Jim Amash had the privilege of staying at the Kirby’s house for a few days back in 1991. The best moment I ever shared with Jack occurred the morning I left. We were sitting down for breakfast and Roz asked us what we wanted to eat. Jack requested Corn Flakes, but Roz said, “No. You aren’t supposed to eat that. You’ll have the Rice Krispies.” Jack looked at me and said, “Roz takes care of me.” Roz brought me the Corn Flake box and after I poured some into my bowl, Jack said, “I’ll have some Corn Flakes.” Roz vetoed the idea, saying, “You’re supposed to be eating Rice Krispies.” Jack gave that shy, sheepish smile of his and said, “Roz is really taking care of me.” I loved his sense of humor. We proceeded to have the nicest noncomics conversation we ever had together and I decided that day if I ever want to be in a good mood at breakfast time, I’ll eat Rice Krispies.

Aliens For Dinner JKC subscriber and cartoonist Jim Engel remembers reading the following question in an interview Jack gave years ago. Q: Considering the cosmic focus of many of your stories over the years, what would you do if aliens landed in your backyard? KIRBY: I’d cook ’em and eat ’em!

Jack was the kindest host one could ever have. The first night I stayed, I slept on the couch while Julie Schwartz occupied the guest bedroom. About midnight, I was laying there staring at this giant pencil drawing Jack drew of his grandfather. The moonlight shown on the eyes of the drawn face and I couldn’t shut my eyes because I knew he was staring back at me. Suddenly, a light turned on in the hall and I heard Jack say to me, “Listen. I’ll leave the light on in the bathroom so you can find your way if you have to go.” I said, “Don’t worry, Jack. I’m good at seeing in the dark. No need to run up the light bill. I’ll be fine.” “Are you sure?” he asked back. “Yes, I’ll be fine.” Jack said goodnight and I laid back down. About a minute later, Jack came back and said, “Listen. I’ll leave the

or over two decades, Jack and Roz were annual guests at nearly every San Diego Comic-Con. And as one of the Comic-Con’s original committee chairmen, as well as being a local aspiring cartoonist with more enthusiasm than common sense, my group of fan-pals and I had achieved a sort of benign notoriety at those early cons. One year, someone brought a batch of fireworks to the con, which was still being held at the old El Cortez Hotel. As we were preparing to fire a huge Roman candle over the hotel swimming pool (which we’d doused with emergency-orange shark repellent the previous year),

F 25

order to get everything we wanted in this issue, we

eliminated the NEWS section and the LETTERS

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My Favorite Funny Stories About Jack by Scott Shaw!

who should walk by but Jack “King” Kirby himself?! We called him over, and when he saw what we were up to, his eyes glinted with a mischievous sparkle, and he proceeded to give us a few pointers on velocity, trajectory and wind resistance. This was the coolest—Jack Kirby was one of the guys! But despite our whining efforts to convince him to light the fireworks’ fuse himself (“But it’s the Boom Tube, Jack!”), Jack was nobody’s patsy. (What were we Jack at a convention in 1985. thinking? It never even occurred to us that we could have been responsible for injuring the hands of the greatest comic book cartoonist of them all!) Resisting the obvious temptation, King Kirby begged off, bidding us good-night with an avuncular “Be careful, guys!”

Mark Evanier, Steve Rude and others, but some of us were slightly uncomfortable with the knowledge that Tony had hired a “special” surprise for Jack. After dinner and testimonials, an attractive young lady dressed as Wonder Woman entered the private room. At least, she started out dressed as Wonder Woman. The idea of paying a stripper to entertain at a party for Jack seemed in poor taste, but Jack’s attitude somehow completely removed any trace of sleaze from the proceedings! Instead of being flustered by this topless young woman’s obvious endowments, Jack acted like he was receiving the keys to the city! “I thank you,” Jack calmly said, with much more dignity than the occasion merited. “I thank you, you’re a lovely young woman!” Later that night, after the mostly undressed “Wonder Woman” had her picture taken with Jack, someone asked Roz what she thought. Roz held up the photo. “No problem,” she said. “I’ll just paste a photo of my face over hers!”

A Shocking Story by Nicholas Caputo ver two decades ago, I attended the first Marvel Convention in New York in 1975. It was a spectacle of wonderment; on hand were bullpen luminaries such as John Romita, John Buscema, Don Heck, Dick Ayers, Joe Sinnott, Marie Severin, Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and of course, Stan Lee presiding over the festivities. But the most momentous event occurred quite unexpectedly on what should have been a very pedestrian day. On the final day, Stan Lee and Roy Thomas hosted a Fantastic Four panel. As it was getting underway, Stan commented he had a special guest to announce. There, walking down the aisle in what seemed like a flash, was a man Lee proclaimed was Jack Kirby. The room exploded with thunderous applause and a standing ovation as Kirby made his way to the podium. It was a thrilling moment that remains in my memory even after all these years. When Lee stated that Kirby would return to Marvel, there was a bustle of excitement and enthusiasm in the room, along with a barrage of questions about what books he would work on. Kirby’s answer was, “Whatever I do at Marvel, I can assure you that it’ll electrocute you in the mind!” To which Lee, ever the linguist, corrected, “Electrify, Jack! Electrify!” After the panel we all had the opportunity to speak with Kirby, who I seem to recall was pretty much flooded with fans, but we were able to utter a few words of gratitude and receive autographs. It was a moment (as Jack might phrase it) that electrocuted us all in the mind.

Jack and I were among the charter members of CAPS, the Comic Art Professional Society. Most of our members, like Jack, had never actually met many of their fellow local pros face-to-face. Jack attended one of our earliest meetings in the mid-’70s, and as the group mixed in conversation, Jack was overheard introducing himself as “Ramon De Los Flores,” supposedly a specialist in drawing pornographic comics! In fact, Jack played this manufactured identity to the hilt, so much so that those of us in the know had a hard time convincing his victims they were, indeed, talking to the legendary Jack Kirby himself! On one of my early days at Hanna-Barbera Productions, I was astounded to find myself sitting alongside Jack and another comics great, Mike Sekowsky, as we received instructions to create presentation art for a proposed animated version of the band KISS. Within a few days, we’d each drawn up very different cartoon versions of the bizarre group. A few weeks later, I was told that, not surprisingly, Jack had come up with the “winning” version which H-B had presented to the interested network, who ultimately passed on KISS. According to my studio superiors, the network execs found Jack’s artwork to be “too sexual!” The criticism has always cracked me up, because many adjectives can appropriately be applied to Jack’s work, but “sexual” has never been one of ’em! (Not counting, of course, the cover to OMAC #1!)

Lo, Cometh The Plunger! by Steve Sherman ometime around 1971-72, before the dawn of mass-market VHS video tape recorders, I had come into possession of a Sony Betamax VCR and camera. In those pre-VHS days it was quite amazing and a lot of fun to be able to videotape and play it back. So one Sunday afternoon I loaded the thing into my car, picked up my associate Mark Evanier and headed out to Thousand Oaks. On Sunday afternoons we would usually drive to the Kirby house to work on the DC books. When the Kirbys first moved to Thousand Oaks they bought a house that stood alone off a winding road called Calle Salto. It was built on a three-tiered lot that overlooked a small but formidable ravine. On the first level was the house. On the second, down a flight of steps was the backyard and swimming pool. Below that on the third tier was the horse corral, where Jack’s daughter Lisa had her horse. During the summer, more often than not, we would all end up in the Kirby pool. Except for the horse. Not too long after moving in, Jack and Roz’s son Neal graduated college and came out to the West Coast with his wife Barbara. In

Judy and I were honored to be included at a special party held for Jack by Gary Goddard and Tony Christopher, the wizards behind the theme park designing company Landmark Entertainment; both of them are devoted fans of Jack and his work. A number of local pros were in attendance, including Frank Miller, Neal Adams, Bill Stout, read it? Well, Besides being just plain fun, In

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flip through the whole issue backwards just to

When my wife Judith and I were first dating, I’d give her copies of DC’s New Gods reprints to familiarize her with the work of my favorite cartoonist. Although not a regular comic book reader, she was understandably impressed with the series’ power and scope. When she met Jack for the first time, Judy commented, “I can see why you made the Black Racer a black Vietnam vet, and I think I understand why he wears a suit of armor, but what’s the story with the flying skis?” “To get him noticed!” Jack laughingly replied.

He’s not Captain Plunger, but this Uru-wielder met up with some youngsters of his own in Thor #154. Marvel Comics made numerous art changes to the published version of this page. 27

we run this co ckamamie edito rial Upside-do wn

across the bottom of every p age, making you

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those days, Neal was, shall we say, the “life of the party.” Faced with a camera that provided instant playback, Neal was immediately “on.” Setting up the equipment outside, we needed something to shoot other than the typical splashing around in the pool. Neal and I went into the garage in search of some props. Stored there was a leftover from the first Spirit World photo story—a football helmet covered with colorful plastic doodads. The only other prop was a toilet plunger. Grabbing these two items, we went back out to the pool. Draping a towel around his shoulders, Neal became the ultimate superhero. Now all we needed was his name. Jack liked pacing up and down by the pool, puffing on his cigar or pipe while coming up with the next New Gods or Mister Miracle. As Neal confronted Jack, he announced that he was the latest Kirby creation. It was up to Jack to come up with a name. Thus was born: Captain Plunger! Much in the same manner as Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks, Jack began to question the good Captain on what his super powers were (he carried the mighty Uru Plunger, so take a guess). To prove his worth, Captain Plunger eventually ended up chasing the Kirby pooch Scruffy around the pool, finally ending the chase with a cannonball off the diving board—helmet and all. Later that evening, we hooked the VCR up to the TV and played back what we had shot. Needless to say, we were doubled over with laughter, watching a 23 year old man wearing a towel, a space helmet, Bermuda shorts and brandishing a toilet plunger vowing to save the world from evil-doers.

A Kirby Captain Marvel from The Comic Reader #100.

S&K’s Big Red Cheese by John Morrow ne of Joe Simon and Jack Kirby’s earliest assignments was the complete 64-page issue of Captain Marvel Adventures #1 in 1941. Through the wonder of microfiche, I was able to read this dandy little issue and I was surprised by what I found. While the good Captain is known today for his humorous, whimsical adventures, this early Simon & Kirby job has a brutal edge to it and runs the full spectrum of genres, including a standard adventure story, a western, a sci-fi thriller, and a (gasp!) grisly horror tale! The issue starts with nifty little untitled 15-page slugfest involving the evil Dr. Sivana and his henchman named “Z” who is “the ultimate in toughness.” Captain Marvel and Z duke it out in three great S&K fight scenes, with Z finally being revealed as a robot, and Cap winning in the end. This one was not much on plot, but the non-stop action keeps things interesting. Next up is a 16-pager called “Captain Marvel Out West.” This one seems to be more filler than anything else, with the least inspired art and story of the

Some slam-bang Simon & Kirby action from Captain Marvel Adventures #1. A color microfiche of the entire issue is available for less than $10 from Microcolor, PO Box 243, Ridgewood, NJ 07450. 28 ➡

issue. Probably the most interesting aspect of it is Billy Batson’s use of “special equipment” that transmits a photograph from New York to a deserted part of “Cactus County.” Imagine; in 1941, Jack and Joe had already envisioned what we now know to be our modern cellular telephone and fax machine! Third is an untitled 15-pager that takes the Big Red Cheese into outer space. In it, he travels by space ship to Saturn to free a society of humans enslaved by a race of Dragon Men. In one of Jack’s earliest uses of mythology in his comics, the human slaves ask if Cap is the legendary “Thunder God” who has come to save them. Also of note is the way Cap callously tricks a human spy into lying to the Dragon Men so they’ll murder him. The most shocking tale in this issue is a 16pager entitled “Captain Marvel Battles The Vampire.” And what a battle it is! After helping dig up the decomposed body of Bram Thirla, Billy Batson watches as a scientist pours an “Elixir of Life” on the skeleton. Thirla comes to life as a vampire and sucks the blood out of the scientist. Billy becomes Captain Marvel and discovers he can’t harm the vampire, so he sets out to research other ways to defeat him. Another battle ensues, with Thirla summoning a giant wolf to swallow the Captain. In this gruesome scene, the wolf gets sick, and finally explodes into pieces as Cap blasts his way out of the wolf ’s stomach! To make the story even more violent, Captain Marvel ends the battle by driving a wooden stake into Thirla’s heart in midair, letting his body crash to the ground. This isn’t what you’d expect from a member of today’s Marvel Family, but it’s right in line with the no-holds-barred S&K comics of the early ’40s. The art in this issue is hampered by the need to imitate the look of CM’s Whiz Comics feature, but the telltale S&K style is evident. (Picture C.C. Beck’s work on steroids!) It’s a solid, fast-paced issue with plenty of action, and is lots of fun to read. If you love early Simon and Kirby work, consider buying the microfiche and taking it to your local library to view it. Your efforts will be rewarded!

grateful for her patience and (dare I say it?) go o d

humo r. Thanks again, Ro z! But why, you ask, did

Fawcett Fans!! Don’t Miss This!

If you’re a fan of Fawcett comics (everything from the Marvel Family to Spy Smasher, Bulletman, and all the other greats of yesteryear), I strongly urge you to order FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America). It’s a fabulous quarterly ’zine, very reminiscent of TJKC in tone, and beautifully and professionally designed and produced. The latest issue (#54—it’s been around awhile!) contains a 1979 interview with C.C. Beck, articles by Trina Robbins, Dave Berg, Golden Age artist Marc Swayze, and more! $2/issue, $8/year (US prices). Contact Paul Hamerlinck at P.O. Box 24751, Edina, MN 55424-0751.

making a surprise visit to Patsy and Hedy’s hometown of Centerville to find a typical American girl to pose for his next Love Romances cover. The two girls stumble all over each other trying to get discovered by him, and since they don’t know what Jack looks like, end up Research by David Penalosa spending all their time with a stranger they mistakenly think is him! The mistake is understandable though. Artist Al Hartley drew ou won’t find Patsy and Hedy #88 (June 1963) listed on any Kirby Jack so generically that Roz wouldn’t have recognized him! But thanks checklist, but maybe it should be. While there’s not one smidgen to Stan Lee’s dialogue, we find out that a bystander the girls comof Kirby art in #88 (or any other issue of P&H that we’re aware pletely ignored early in the story is really Jack. Their friend Nan of ), Jack does make a guest appearance! It seems that old Jack was befriends Jack and gets to pose for the cover, and Patsy and Hedy are left feeling dejected. (It’s probably just as well for the girls; Love Romances was canceled one month after this story saw print!) The Overstreet Comic Book Price Patsy & Hedy find out Jack’s coming to The two “goops” hatch their scheme to get ...but end up mistaking this guy for Jack. Guide states Patsy Centerville. noticed by Jack... (He does kinda look like an artist, though.) and Hedy #88’s only real importance is that it contains a “lingerie panel” (and a pretty tame one at that). Even with that dubious distinction, it only costs a few dollars in NM condition. If you’re a total Kirby fanatic, you’ll want to locate a copy of this hilarious and undoubtedly hardMeanwhile, the real (?) Jack is sharing a Patsy (an appropriate name as it turns ...and the real Jack gets his model. (Gee, to-find Kirby cameo. Good luck! cab with Nan, a clueless friend of P&H’s. out) discovers her mistake... did Roz know all this was going on?)

A Kirby Cameo

graciously consented to do a lengthy, personal

interview about their life together, and we’re

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Super-Heroes & Stupid Villains A Look At Fighting American, by Jon B. Cooke “Fighting American was the first attempt at satire in comics. It was a satire — of Captain America. It was very, very funny... It was a period when I really enjoyed doing the comics.” Jack Kirby, The Comics Journal #134, February 1990. bviously with the forerunning success of Harvey Kurtzman’s brilliant Mad comics, not to mention the long-underweared spoofs Supersnipe and Red Tornado, Kirby was a little off on his comics history. But on the last two points the King was dead-on. Fighting American was a very funny satire of superhero comics, especially the villains, and one Kirby and Joe Simon obviously loved creating. Simon & Kirby’s Fighting American came to being in a decidedly unhappy time for both America and its floundering comics industry. The United States was besieged from within by the Red-baiting Senator from Wisconsin, “Tail Gunner” Joe McCarthy and his commie witchhunts. Comics, while just short of being accused of being Marxist, were persecuted as the cause of juvenile delinquency — seducing the innocent — by Dr. Frederic Wertham and his ilk. The team of S&K, after delving into romance, western, war, 3-D, and horror genres returned to what they did best: superheroes. And this time they went unabashedly back to the template they created: Captain America. It’s reasonable to speculate that S&K were responding to the recent revival of their star-spangled creation over at Marvel in the pages of Young Men comics in the fall of ’53. Their response came the following winter with Fighting American #1, cover dated April-May 1954. “We were determined to make the public forget about Captain America,” Joe Simon wrote in his introduction to the Fighting American collection published in 1989 by Marvel. “This time the copyright belonged to Simon and Kirby.” And they stuck pretty darn close to that template, adding only a few modern, and albeit, bizarre twists. Super-patriot broadcaster Johnny Flagg alerts America to the onslaught of commie FifthColumnists on his TV show. Though ruggedly-built and a war hero, Johnny is confined to using crutches due to battle wounds, while his weakling-but-able brother Nelson writes the antiCommunist diatribes for the broadcasts. Commie agents beat Johnny to near-death and government agents recruit the skinny brother to become the “Agent of the Future,” and avenge his brother’s tragedy. In panels, some of which are identical to Cap’s origin tale, Nelson’s mind is transferred into the body of Johnny Flagg to become Project Fighting American. Whatever became of Nelson’s body is never revealed, but regardless, another super-patriot hero is born and now, to complete the rip-off of their own creation, S&K needed a Bucky. Speedboy debuts in the second story, an enthusiastic page boy at the television station who uncovers the newly-rejuvenated Johnny Flagg’s secret. In his seven-issue run (eight if you count the 1966 revival one-shot published by friend Al’s Harvey Comics — emblazoned with the outrageous cover statement, “Most Imitated of All!”), F.A.’s strange origin is never alluded to again, and no psychological complications of such a bizarre creation seem to arise. His background properly disposed of, Fighting American took on the godless Communists almost non-stop. Mostly, S&K’s use

of Reds as villains was simply because they filled the stock needed at the time. While Jack has said, “My enemies were the commies — I called them commies … Communism became the doorway to chaos, and the doorway to chaos was the doorway to evil,” the bad guys in F.A. were mostly used for laughs. (Though in one disturbing sequence S&K give us the nice, happy couple John and Martha as Communist agents, apparently using the controversial figures of recently executed Ethel and Julius Rosenberg as an odd source of humor material.) At best, the comic was all-out burlesque, ridiculing (after a melodramatic start) the Red Menace, and presenting probably the oddest assortment of bad guys to appear in a four-colored title, rivaling the freaks who battled Chester Gould’s Dick Tracy. Their names alone are now legend among those of us who care: The Handsome Devils, Doubleheader, Poison Ivan, Hotsky Trotski, Square Hair Malloy (a Flat-Top swipe if ever there was one!), Count Yuscha Liffso and his diminutive pal Sawdoff, Ginza Goniff, Massamuttin, Doraymirio Wolfirosoff, Invisible Irving, Deadly Doolittle, Space-Face, Round Robin, Commisar Yutz, that trio of Fighting American imposters, Skudnik, Yakfoot and Grummel, and the unforgettable SuperKhakalovitch, Hero of the People. And S&K had a field day naming the varied assortment of buxom women who cavorted with our heroes: Madame Butterscotch, Zuzu Amor, Pamela Hardwhack, Marilyn Biltrite(!), Charity Bizarre, Scarlet O’Haircut, wrestler Gorgeous Georgia and neme-

woman who added so much to his life, Ro salind

Kirby. Roz

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Joe Sinnott inked this piece for the Kirby Unleashed portfolio.

sis G-Girl Gloria Swandive, Lucy Liverwurst, La Mombo, and that rotund commie rat, Rhode Island Red — a name this Ocean State resident takes exception to! The names just suggest the lunacy that took place in this uproarious comic book. While the basic super-hero concept was played rather straight, the plots were sometimes out of this world, out of time, and assuredly out of any sense of sanity! Possibly inspired by the creative and economic success of Mad, S&K went to town with some crazy tales, too numerous to recount here. There are few more marvelous uniforms than that of Johnny Flagg’s secret identity. Red, white, blue and gold, Fighting American goes Captain America two better with an inspired use of gold and red on the face mask — the red shaped as an American eagle — and the extraordinary chest design: an encircled U.S. star complemented with “eagle-winged” red and white stripes which spread out over the shoulders. No doubt it was a complicated design to reproduce and it must have been an exasperating task to do over and over for Jack’s uncredited inkers and finishers. Colorists too were confused, but when done right it was, in this writer’s opinion, the best super-hero costume ever designed. Simon & Kirby were having a ball, going overboard with ethnic stereotypes that were no doubt inspired in part by Kirby’s Lower East Side upbringing. Besides the smelly Russian Super-Khakalovitch and the relentless assault on socialist Eastern Europeans (and the occasional Red Chinese), we were entertained by hep-talking, Caniffesque Uncle Samurai, wise-cracking Jiseppi the Jungle Boy, the greedy Sheik of Kishmir, noble Shiskabob the Sorcerer, and the Mexican tale of Yafata’s Moustache. Politically correct the duo was not, but for outrageous puns, few could touch them. At least, thank heaven, they stayed away from stereotyping African-Americans. Ironically it is in a Fighting American story why Jack Kirby, the man and his art, means so much to me spiritually. In a time-travel story in issue five, Speedboy comes upon a slum fight where a “sissy” boy is being beaten by neighbor-

hood toughs. After walloping the thugs, our sidekick tells the scrawny kid to beef up and defend himself. Taking pity, Speedy takes Gregory to visit his mentor, who shares this wisdom: “Strength should be used wisely — to protect yourself — to help others.” In this, a typical Kirby scene, I find Kirby’s take on life in a nutshell. Maybe not profound, but the fundamental core of Kirby’s great truth: Survive and you’ll have hope. Hope and you’ll succeed. Succeed and you’ll help others. Help others and you’ll always survive. It is in the essence of this truth, so long professed by Kirby, from Captain America to the Hunger Dogs, where I see A 1968 Kirby as a man with sincere sketch. and meaningful beliefs, another aspect besides his obviously unique artistry that makes him so special. Fighting American came at a time when American humor was being redefined by men who grew up in the same neighborhoods as Jack Kirby. Harvey Kurtzman, Will Eisner, Sid Caesar, Woody Allen, Mel Brooks, Neil Simon, and Jules Feiffer all came of age in the city of New York and her boroughs at roughly the same time. Jack’s humor is from the same pallete. Certainly not as refined and succinct as Kurtzman’s, or as ironic as Allen’s, but in guffawed, big-footed, yuks-a-minute jokes, Kirby could hold his own. His humor was best when it was slapstick, and no more honest then when committed by or perpetrated on his numerous alter-egos; Scrapper, Ben Grimm, Volstagg, and, yes, even the U.S.S.R.’s one-time secret weapon, Super-Khakalovitch. F.A. has taken on a cult status since its too-short run in the ’50s. While it was a hard-to-find item until Marvel’s welcome (if crude) reprinting — no doubt published as part of the copyright settlement with Kirby and not, as a recent advertisement selling the collection attests, because Marvel “liked it so much” — it has attained a special place in the hearts of comic fans, because of its outrageously stupid villains and, yes, because of that wicked cool costume! The owner of this page of original art from the final S&K Fighting American story got a nice surprise when he peeled off the paste-up art on the last panel; the name of an unused villainess planned for the never-completed next issue! We may never know what Ulteria Motaf would’ve looked like, but you can bet she’d have been hilarious. 31

perfect opportunity to delve a little deeper into

the personal side of Jack by interviewing the

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KIRBY O N ART

Thoroughly Modern Jack by Richard Kolkman e fans are always so engrossed in Kirby’s mammoth machines and exploding planets that it’s easy to overlook his sublime modern sculpture. That’s right... modern sculpture. Kirby’s sense of style is obvious in every architectural flourish and facade from Asgard to Atlantis; but when he wanted to portray the silliness of the burgeoning modern art scene, he would draw what he thought looked too silly to be seriously considered as a piece of art. What Kirby didn’t seem to realize was that regardless of his satirical intent, these modern sculptures reflected his natural sense of design, and created, well, some very innovative work! Most of them were, and probably still are, ahead of their time. One example is an object possessed by that multi-universal and allaround practical guy, the Watcher. He can’t seem to fathom the idea that perhaps art can exist for art’s sake. In Fantastic Four #29 (page 16, panel 7), he conveys to us that he has been studying this object found in a remote galaxy for centuries! The Watcher is either so taken by the sinuous design quality of this object that he feels compelled to gaze at it for a millennium, or more pathetically, he is actually trying to find out if it “does something” or has any other practical use. Lighten up, Watcher! Witness “Twilight Over Hoboken,” which an irate sculptor brings before the Human Torch as evidence of his carelessness in the use of his flame (FF #22, page 5, panel 6). Not only is this type of melted sculpture worthy of a large lawsuit, and well-documented by a photograph, but is better looking than the joke it is supposed to be! Take the case of the modern art rave of 1964, “Clobber Creation” (FF Annual #2, page 3). When the Thing accidentally damages a jalopy, the damaged auto is instantly purchased by an

innovative art dealer, who commissions the Thing to complete its demolition on the spot! A shrewd move by this nameless speculator. He recognized that here was a work by one of the “Marvels,” symbolic of the post-atomic, deconstructive pop art scene of the 1960s. In the current Marvel universe, where is this sculpture? How much is it worth? It must have appreciated incredibly in the last thirty-one years. In a Jack Kirby panel, the design is so effective, sometimes it is difficult to notice any details other than what was intended for the reader to look at. With determination and practice, the background and its wealth of interesting details come forward. It is here that the most bizarre, esoteric pieces of sculpture and painting can be appreciated. The untitled masterpiece (FF #15, page 9) inhabiting the office that the Fantastic Four are in is a beautiful example of scientific symmetry. On the surface, the statue is representative of the overdone opulence of this mighty office. The undercurrent however, is that once again, standing on its own, this piece is very Kirby and very good. Other good places to look for unheralded treasures are places like Alicia Masters’ studio, office settings, and museum situations such as Jason Blood’s rooms full of arcane academia. What unsung masterworks can you find? Happy hunting!

Do Pure YouImagination Want has “The Complete Kirby” To Be Published? completed work on the first volume of The Complete Kirby, a series reprinting all of Jack’s work from the beginning of his career. But they need a commitment from at least 400 people before it can be published. Included in Volume 1 will be Jack’s early work from Blue Bolt, Red Raven, Crash Comics, Jumbo Comics, plus other early comic book and comic strip work (some never published in the US), and a text feature to put it all in perspective. Vol. 1 will be a 164-page softcover in black-&-white with color cover, and would sell for $25. If you are willing to commit to purchasing a copy when it’s published, write to Greg Theakston, 1707 East Lake Dr., Marietta, GA 30062 and let him know. DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY NOW! You’ll be notified by mail when it’s published. (Greg is currently planning Volume 2, and he still needs copies of Blue Bolt #4 and #9. Please call him at (770) 424-5151 if you know where he can get these in any condition.) 32

Celebrating the life and career of the King!

BIMO NTHLY!

O N SALE HERE!

Fully Authorized by the Kirby Estate

Copies of the FULLCOLOR 17" x 24" promotional poster we give to comic shops are for sale. Help us pay our printing costs, and get a beautiful Kirby collectible in the process! Price includes shipping in a sturdy mailing tube. ($7 US, $8 Canada, $10 outside N. America.) See the order form on page 42.

and I hope you enjoy this issue as much as we did

putting it together. We also felt this was the

➡

Posters For Sale!

This panel from X-Men #1, page 15 was the genesis for Roy Lichtenstein’s painting “Image Duplicator” (left).

Pop Kirby by John Morrow n the late 1950s in England (and later in New York and California), a new movement emerged in Modern Art. Called Pop Art, it was artists’ reaction to how derivative Abstract Expressionism had become. They created new works of art based on the everyday, popular culture objects that they felt defined our existence. Artists like Mel Ramos, Richard Pettibone and Andy Warhol used everything from soup cans to famous faces as source material for their Pop Art. It was perhaps inevitable that a cultural phenomenon like comic books would be a fertile breeding ground for their inspiration, and that Kirby’s prolific body of work would end up in some of the art. Artist Roy Lichtenstein is widely known for his paintings based on individual comic book panels; he would select a panel he liked, project it onto a canvas, and trace off the basic image. Rather than make an exact duplicate of the comic panel, he would revise and enhance certain aspects of the original, eliminate others, and often combine parts of different source materials into the final painting. Sometimes he would add dialogue that was totally unrelated to the original drawing, in an effort to create something totally new from something familiar. One of the most strikingly Kirbyesque pieces Lichtenstein produced is entitled “Image Duplicator” (1963) which is based on a Kirby close-up drawing of Magneto from the then recently-published X-Men #1. While the line work is modified from Jack’s original and the dialogue is totally different (an ironic choice considering that, in essence, he was duplicating images with his work), the close-up eye shot is a Kirby trademark, and probably what captured Lichtenstein’s attention when he was flipping

through comics looking for source material. Considering the number of paintings Lichtenstein did based on romance and war comic panels, it’s likely there were other Kirby source materials in his repertoire. (Perhaps someone with a more thorough knowledge of Jack’s work in those genres will try to track down the genesis of some of Lichtenstein’s other paintings.) An earlier interesting use of Jack’s work in the early stages of Pop Art appeared in a 1956 art exhibition in England. Artist Richard Hamilton used a Simon & Kirby Young Romance cover in his collage entitled “Just What Is It that Makes Today’s Homes so Different, so Appealing?” (Can anyone tell which issue was used here?) Considering the media exposure the show received, it’s likely word of the usage of the Young Romance cover got back to Jack, and inspired him to try his own hand at collage (such as the ones he used in Fantastic Four, Thor, and later in his Fourth World books). Creating collages was very satisfying and relaxing for Jack, and he continued to create them long after he stopped using them in his comics. In an attempt to capitalize on publicity surrounding the alreadyfading Pop Art movement, Stan Lee replaced the words “Marvel Comics Group” with “Marvel Pop Art Productions” for a few months in 1965. Although this was strictly a marketing gimmick, perhaps there was more truth there than it would seem. For although the comics themselves weren’t true “Pop Art,” the work of Marvel’s #1 artist managed to find its way into the world of Modern Art more than once.

(left) Artist Richard Hamilton’s collage. Can anyone tell which Young Romance cover that is? (right) Kirby meets Picasso in this very strange drawing from the back of an original art page from Thor #149. Did Jack draw it? We have no idea, but since it’s our Humor issue, we couldn’t resist running it, and letting you decide! 33

ham-fisted humor. I’ve come away from it with a

deeper ap preciation for his comedic talents,

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KIRBY O N SPO RTS

Grid-Iron Gods by Leo Pando n 1973, I was attending an art school in Los Angeles. Occasionally a professional from the “outside world” would be invited in to make a presentation. One such professional was Mike Gaines, the art director for PRO Magazine, the official magazine of the National Football League. He brought in original illustrations he had commissioned from some of the top people in the field. Two in particular were the highlight for me, and were done by none other than Jack Kirby himself. I was thrilled to discover yet another aspect of Kirby’s work. In those days in art school, comic books were not taken seriously, even despite the fact that Marvel was in the middle of its renaissance. (Remember the Hulk on the cover of Rolling Stone?) I was thrilled one art director had the foresight to use Kirby. I suppose Jack was seen as very specialized. Those of us into comics were pretty much in the minority. I’m sorry Kirby didn’t do more freelance assignments like this one. For Kirby’s illustrations, no credit was given for inking or color. I assume Jack did it himself. The illustrations were reproduced in the various editions of PRO Magazine dated October 22, 1972. Similar versions of PRO were distributed to all cities hosting an NFL game that weekend; each was customized for the specific city it appeared in, but Jack’s feature ran in all of them. It was not numbered or sold in stores; one bought it at the game itself. Credit wasn’t given for the copy that accompanied the article (titled “Out of Mind’s Reach”), but it sure caught the essence of what The King was about:

“We measure time in minutes and hours, in days and weeks. Most of us do. Jack Kirby measures it in light years. We say, “Far out,” and it is a figure of speech. To most of us. To Jack Kirby, “Far out” is really where it’s at. His mind is a carousel of super-fantasy, whirling forward and backward, whirling somewhere the rest of us aren’t... but would like to be. Ask Jack Kirby about pro football and he will tell you about cosmic sweeps and flying wedges that are really that. Ask Jack Kirby to take pro football and do his special kind of comic mind-magic on paper... and the game becomes in an instant, intergalactic. Superstars become super beings, and the sounds of their struggle are heard throughout infinity. Well, maybe infinity is stretching it a bit. In Jack Kirby’s mind, at least.”

Here is Jack’s original inked and watercolored version of the art that appeared on the cover of TJKC #8, showing his cosmic vision of a football game (the original has some of the most amazing coloring we’ve ever seen!). The back cover of this issue of TJKC originally appeared in conjunction with this piece as a 2-page spread in PRO Magazine.

Jack’s Rasslers by Michael O’Hara, Publisher of New Wave Wrestling ver the long and illustrious history of the fourcolor world of comic books, artists and writers have relied on wrestlers as archrivals and, sometimes, “comic” relief. One of the most consistent artists to use the wrestling theme was Jack Kirby, who created a wide array of humorous encounters for the Thing. He had wacky clashes with The Golden Angel and “Fatal” Finegan in Fantastic Four #14 and #15, respectively. In 1975, I had the opportunity to meet “King”

Humo r theme issue to more deeply explore just

what he had in mind with some of his bro ad,

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Dug-Out Art by John Stangeland ere’s an obscure Kirby item. Jack did some illos for the backs of the 1961 Topps Baseball Card set. I don’t know how many Jack did (I don’t have the full set), but there were cards by at least three artists, including some by Jack Davis. Perhaps someone out there has the full set and can do some research so we can see how many Jack did do. These look like they were zipped-out mega-fast!

Kirby. As a fledgling teenage freelance wrestling writer/photographer, I mentioned my interest in the grappling game. His eyes opened wide and he exclaimed, “I love wrestling!” Although he didn’t mention any particular wrestlers, it was obvious that his masterful combat renditions came from an authentic place deep within his creative psyche. When Captain America slipped out of Krushki the wrestler’s full nelson and dispensed him with a flying head scissors in Captain America #104 (April, 1968), Kirby displayed his vast understanding of holds and counterholds. One has to wonder if Jack’s visual creations of The Incredible Hulk and The Thing (who basically wore little more than wrestling trunks) were based on pro-wrestlers he may have seen on TV, while relaxing in his New York City home during those halcyon, early days. 35

time. But since Jack always knew what he was doing

with his other comics work, I decided to do this

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Definitely Not Brand Echh! by John Morrow (with thanks to Len Callo) istory has it that television producer William Dozier happened across a copy of Batman #171 (May 1965) on an airplane, and decided it’d make a dandy TV show. Once his “Batman” TV series premiered in January 1966, comics were never the same again. The popularity of the show brought changes throughout the comics industry; new (usually awful) super-heroes sprang up at various companies overnight, articles about comics were featured in national magazines, the word “go-go” seemed to crop up everywhere, and the overdone “camp” comedy style of the TV show filtered into comic books. DC’s Inferior Five premiered in Showcase #62 in mid-1966 and gained its own book in April 1967. Fearful of Marvel’s increasing success, DC started taking pot shots at The House Of Ideas in their letter pages, and even parodied Thor in Inferior Five #4, and others later on. But Inferior Five had the typical sanitized feel of a 1960s DC comic, and it couldn’t effectively ridicule Marvel’s books. So Marvel did the job for them! Jumping on the comedy bandwagon, they launched Brand Echh #1 (August 1967, renamed Not Brand Echh with #5). Stan Lee had been poking fun at DC on the Bullpen Page throughout 1967, calling them “Brand Echh” (perhaps as a build-up for this new title). When Brand Echh #1 finally appeared, it went Inferior Five one better by attempting full-blown Mad-style satires of its own line of comic characters (and later, the competition’s as well). The first issue is a scream! It contains Jack’s 8-page satirical look at his recently-completed Silver Surfer/Dr. Doom meeting in Fantastic Four #57-60. Only this time, it’s a kinder, gentler Dr. Bloom who steals the Silver Burper’s power and surfboard! The FF are parodied as the Fantastical Four, featuring Weed Wichards (Mr. Fantastical), Shrew Storm (The Inevitable Girl), Sonny Storm (The Human Scorch), and Bim Grimm (The Thung). The story is laden with sight gags, horrible puns, and some inspired inking by Frank Giacoia. It’s a ridiculous romp that still holds together well today. Giacoia also inked Jack’s 8-page story for Brand Echh #3, featuring a delightful takeoff on Mighty Thor (called Mighty Sore). In “Batman” TV show fashion, Jack drew numerous guest stars in the “fabled realm of Jazzgard,” including Don Knotts, The Monkees, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, Bob Dylan, and other celebrities from the 1960s. While the story (such as it is) falls apart at the end, the Kirby/Giacoia art is outstanding, and good for more than a few laughs. Jack’s last hurrah with humor at Marvel appeared in Fantastic Four Annual #5 (Nov. 1967). This wonderful 3-page filler entitled “This Is A Plot?” features more great Kirby/Giacoia art in a farcical look at how Stan and Jack came up with plots together. In what is probably Jack’s first writing credit at Marvel, it almost patronizingly states: “Jolly Jack not only drew this whole frenetic farce, but he actually wrote it all by his lonesome!” This story appeared just after FF #67, when Jack stopped creating new characters for Marvel to exploit

without his control, leaving one to wonder if Stan used this relatively harmless opportunity to pacify Jack by letting him dialogue his own work. This story features a much less abrasive parody of Stan (and Roy Thomas) than what he would later use in Mister Miracle, although there are subtle hints at their disagreements over plots. Later issues of Not Brand Echh (#5-7) feature Kirby art that’s been heavily altered by Tom Sutton. A look at original art from these books shows major retouches, pasteups and reworks of Jack’s stories. The few margin notes that are visible show the dialogue sometimes veering off in directions Jack didn’t intend, and many of his gags being ignored completely. Unless you’re a Kirby completist, I suggest you stick with #1 and #3, and forget #5-7 (or better yet, get #10, which reprints Jack’s stories from #1,3, and 5). It’s too bad Marvel couldn’t have recruited Wally Wood to ink Jack’s work on these later issues, in a style reminiscent of his early work for Mad. Not Brand Echh won’t go down in history as Jack’s finest hour, but it’s definitely worth a look. And reading these old issues got me thinking. What If William Dozier had instead come across a copy of the May 1965 issue of Fantastic Four (#38)? Can you imagine what an FF TV series would’ve been like? Picture Adam West as Mr. Fantastic (“Quick, Thing... to the FantastiCar!”); Burt Ward as Johnny Storm (“Holy matchsticks, Reed!”); Julie Newmar, Eartha Kitt, and other actress taking turns as Sue Storm (since she was invisible, would they 36

1950’s-dated jo kes that I really didn’t understand,

and some villains that seemed kinda dumb at the

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A quick sketch of Not Brand Echh’s Dr. Bloom.

On later issues of Not Brand Echh, Marvel revised Jack’s story and art. Jack’s margin notes for this panel from #5 had Nick Fury called “Nick Furry.” He’s still getting a shave, but the dialogue ignores Jack’s clever name for the character. just feature a voice offstage?); and Burgess Meredith as the Thing (“It’s...–qwack, qwack– clobberin’ time!”). It’s too painful to consider! Plus, it’s doubtful we’d have seen The Inhumans, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Black Panther, or others appear in a Fantastic Four comic that would’ve been altered to reflect the humor of the show. Considering the damage done to Batman’s character by his TV series, I for one am glad the FF didn’t make it to prime time TV in the 1960s! But if they had, Not Brand Echh proves that Jack would’ve been up to the task of adding less-than-subtle humor to any strip he was working on.

Crazy, Man, Crazy! by Harold May ack Kirby and Wally Wood teamed up on a story that was printed in Crazy #66 (published by Marvel, August 1980). Kirby/Wood collaborations are highly valued by fans, and this little-known team-up appears to have been drawn for a “serious” publication, perhaps one of the Marvel “monster” titles. I’m not sure if it ever appeared in one of those books, and it appears to have been humorously re-written for this appearance. If anyone has further information on this story and what the original intentions for it might have been, please write and let us know.

Enter The Big Kirby Contest! ell us what your favorite Kirby story of all time is (any story Jack worked on qualifies, whether as artist or writer, but please list only one single story/issue). So far, only a few entrants have chosen the same story, so don’t be afraid to be original! We’ll print the results in TJKC #13, and randomly draw voter’s names and award the following:

GODS Portfolio, 21st Century Archives Kirby Card Set, Italian magazines reprinting the Silver Surfer Graphic Novel, New Gods #1, and Argosy Magazine with “Street Code” story.

Grand Prize

2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th place winners will be randomly awarded Card Sets, Italian Magazines, and miscellaneous Kirby comics. So vote already!

Jack’s rendition of working with Stan, from FF Annual #5. 37

hero story, considering what an awesome costume

the character had. Instead, I got a bunch of

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TJKC: Can you give us a little background on how Destroyer Duck came to be? STEVE: I had filed suit against Marvel Comics over the ownership of Howard The Duck, which I had created. An early The lawsuit Destroyer Duck was becoming concept drawing. extremely expensive, so we came up with the idea of publishing a benefit comic for the lawsuit. Dean Mullaney and cat yronwode at Eclipse Comics agreed to do it, and all the profits from the book went to pay for my lawyer. (laughter) This left us with the problem of what to put in the comic book. I was willing to work for free, but I didn’t think anybody else would be. I knew I wanted to do a satire on Howard and the whole work-for-hire business, and Jack and I were both working at Ruby-Spears at the time. Jack wasn’t working in the office as I was, but he’d come in once or twice a week with model sketches and character designs for the various animated shows. He and I had gotten to know each other pretty well, and I liked him very, very much, and the feeling seemed to be mutual. So I decided to approach the King of the Comics and ask him to draw a 20-page story for nothing! (laughter) This is not something you do every day. I was so terrified that I had to take Mark Evanier with me out to Jack’s house for moral support. We went out there and sat down in the living room. Roz brought us coffee and cookies and all the usual stuff. (laughter) I sat there, pouring sweat, and explained about the lawsuit. (laughter) Every time I started to ‘hem’ and ‘haw,’ Mark leaped in. And we explained to Jack what the lawsuit was all about, and that it involved Marvel, and it had to do with character ownership and creator’s rights. We went on for about an hour and a half about this, and finally we got around to the benefit comic book. I said, “I want to do this character called Destroyer Duck. I’ve got this idea for it. I... I... I really, really want to... to... know whether you’d... um... be willing to draw the book... (gulp...) for... nothing.” (laughter) I just waited there with the silence hanging in the air, and Jack kind of rubbed his chin and said, “Yeah, sounds like fun.” (laughter) An hour and a half of blind terror had been completely wasted! (laughter) He probably could’ve drawn two or three pages in that time! (laughter)

The OTHER Duck Man Steve Gerber speaks about working with Jack on Destroyer Duck (Interviewed by John Morrow on March 11, 1996) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: How’d you first discover Jack’s work? STEVE GERBER: I going to make a confession. (laughter) I think this is the only time I’ve ever admitted this publicly. In my entire life, there’s only one thing I ever stole. It was the first issue of Fighting American. They had a copy of it at my elementary school, which they used to keep in a box in the gym for kids to read during rainy days. I was so fascinated with this thing that, in the fourth grade, I stuffed it under my shirt and walked out of school with it! (laughter) I’ve been waiting about forty years to get that off my chest! (laughter) TJKC: So Dr. Wertham was right; comics did cause juvenile delinquency! (laughter) STEVE: Absolutely! (laughter) That was the first time I’d encountered Jack’s work. I told Jack about it later. The whole notion of the weakling, milquetoast brother putting his mind into the body of his dead older brother freaked me out completely! (laughter) I loved that book. TJKC: Did you read the subsequent issues? STEVE: I encountered some of them later, and was probably too young to understand the satire at the time. Now, of course, I think it’s very, very funny. TJKC: How’d you meet Jack? STEVE: Mark Evanier and I are not able to agree on this story, so I’m not sure exactly whose idea it was to bring Jack into Ruby-Spears. Joe Ruby was looking for someone to design the Thundarr The Barbarian series. I don’t remember whether I suggested Jack to Joe directly, or whether Mark had beaten me to it, and Joe asked what I thought of the idea. Anyway, I said, “Yes, yes, yes!” (laughter) And that was the first time Jack and I worked together, on Thundarr.

TJKC: So he didn’t even flinch? STEVE: No, not even a semi-flinch. He got this weird smile on his face like he’d really enjoy sticking it to them, and then just said “yes.” TJKC: When would this have been? Around late 1981? STEVE: Probably later than that. The book came out in mid-1982, and we put it together just a couple of months earlier. TJKC: Jack was pretty adamant about writing his own books after leaving Marvel in 1970. How did it feel to be one of the few writers he had worked with? STEVE: I was very flattered. You know, I don’t think Jack felt any disdain toward writers. I think he felt that some particular writers he’d been working with weren’t really holding up their end of the partnership. And to a certain extent that’s true. Stan would give him 2-page plots, or they’d talk out a story in the office, and Jack would just make notes and go home and draw it.

I was expecting a really straight-laced super-

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Fighting American in the Harvey one-shot from 1966.

An early concept drawing of Ned Packer’s mother, The Battle Axe.

STEVE: Oh, hysterical! Absolutely hysterical! A good number of the jokes in the book are his. The “Grab It All, Own It All, Drain It All” slogan of Godcorp was his. The designs of the Godcorp complex were his, and virtually all of the visual gags in that first issue. My contribution tended to be the verbal stuff. TJKC: So as far as the look of the entire book, that was Jack? STEVE: (laughter) When you’re dealing with Jack, how can you dictate the graphic look of anything? We discussed what Destroyer Duck’s build would be like, and the fact that he’d be gray instead of white or black or yellow. I probably described him as “Charles Bronson as a duck.” (laughter) TJKC: Did you give him a full script to work from? STEVE: No, a detailed plot. I’d break it down by page, and in some instances by panels. Jack, being Jack, did whatever he felt he needed to with it. He added some things and dumped others. He adapted it to the way he draws. TJKC: Did you both see eye-to-eye on where the book should go? How well did he convey your ideas? STEVE: Well, you know what you’re going to get when you have Jack Kirby draw a comic book. (laughter) If I’d wanted any other look, I’d have gone someplace else. What I got was exactly what I’d hoped to get — a Jack Kirby comic book. And it floored me. Although I did manage to find the one object in the universe that Jack Kirby could not draw: a cartoon duck beak! (laughter) We were constantly having the inker fix the duck beaks. Everything else was pure Jack, and absolutely pure wonderment, as everything he ever drew was. But he could not get that beak right. (laughter) TJKC: Whose idea was the dislocated spine? I mean this as a compliment: I think it was one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever seen in comics. (laughter) STEVE: That was mine. But I couldn’t dictate the look of it. I could tell Jack, “The spine curls up and bursts out of the guy’s back, and slithers off down the street.” (laughter) From there, it was Jack’s job to turn Medea pounces in these Destroyer Duck #2 pencils! The victim’s face was altered when inked. it into a visual, which he did, and it came out looking exactly the way I expected it to. And yes, it was seriThat’s not meant to disparage Stan Lee, by the way. I think he ously gross! It was supposed to be. (laughter) did make a vital contribution to the work he and Jack did together. I just think Jack contributed almost equally to the stories, particularly TJKC: How did Alfredo Alcala get put on the inks? Was he your in terms of pacing, fight choreography, and, of course, the creation of choice? characters. Stan had an incredible resource in Jack, an artist with an STEVE: (pause) Yes, probably my choice. He was inking Jack’s sketchinstinctive understanding of story, and he used it. In and of itself, es at Ruby-Spears, so we knew what that looked like. Jack knew him there was nothing wrong with that. The problems all arose as a result obviously, and was happy with his work. The look of Jack’s work of Marvel’s work-for-hire arrangement, which rewarded Jack’s creativchanges, depending on who inks it. Sinnott’s inks look very different ity, and that of all the other artists, with, essentially, nothing. from Colletta’s, and both of them look different from Dick Ayers or Anyway, the plots for Destroyer Duck were running anywhere George Roussos. I wanted a distinctive, and different, look to this. from 6 to 10 pages long, single-spaced. I was really writing the book, Obviously, there’s no way to disguise ‘Jack Kirby,’ (laughter) and only while also trying to give Jack as much freedom as I possibly could to a fool would want to, but I wanted an inker who’d bring out someinterpret the stuff. I think Jack felt pretty strongly that Destroyer Duck thing different in Jack’s pencils. was a genuine collaboration. TJKC: What were the specific people or events that inspired you to TJKC: Who inked the cover of #1? create the characters in the book, like Ned Packer? Or would revealSTEVE: Steve Leialoha. ing that get you in trouble? STEVE: It probably would get me in trouble. It’s interesting that you TJKC: What was Jack like to work with on the book? mention Ned Packer, because I’m told Jim Shooter believed that char39 ➡ no t getting the jo kes (particularly in the Go o dy

Rickels issues of JimmyO lsen). I first saw

acter was supposed to be him. The number of syllables is the same, and both surnames end in “er.” But Ned Packer had nothing to do with Shooter; it was based on a movie studio executive out here in California. The name “Packer” was supposed to suggest a meat packer, someone who sold his product by the ton rather than on the basis of its creative content.

like giving Marvel the raspberries for 20 pages. The whole idea of sticking this in their face was a major appeal of the book to Jack. TJKC: On the last page of the first issue, Destroyer Duck throws Ned Packer into a machine as squashes him, and his shoes pop out. That seemed a little personal to me! (laughter) STEVE: Well, it was for both of us. (laughter) Jack came up with that visual, too, by the way. The Ned Packer character was really a caricature of corporate executives in general, just as Godcorp was every noxious attribute of every corporation rolled into one. I think both Jack and I had had our fill of corporations at that point.

TJKC: What about Woblina Strangelegs? That’s one of the most classic names I’ve ever encountered in comics! (laughter) STEVE: (laughing) Let me put it this way; I’m glad I never met anyone I could have based that character on. (laughter) I have no idea where the name or the character concept came from.

TJKC: In interviewing Roz for this issue, we learned her favorite ice cream flavor was Cherry Jubilee. Did that have any bearing on naming that character? STEVE: No! (laughter) Really? I didn’t know that.

TJKC: Was the Destroyer Lawyer based on your lawyer? STEVE: On Henry Holmes, yes. TJKC: Can I assume Booster Cogburn was based on John Byrne? STEVE: Byrne and I have shaken hands and made up since then, but yes. (laughter) I should stress that it wasn’t based on any personal knowledge of John Byrne; it was inspired by an interview he gave in some fan magazine, in which he described himself as a “company man” and told the world how happy he was functioning as a cog in the Marvel corporate machine. I love that name because it’s a three-level pun. It’s a joke on the macho John Wayne “Rooster Cogburn” character, and then it gets “cog” and “Byrne” into one word, and “Booster” describes what “cog” and “Byrne” professed to be at the time. With all due modesty, it’s an achingly clever bit of nomenclature that, frankly, wasn’t appreciated nearly enough. (laughter)

TJKC: How were sales on the first issue? STEVE: It did rather well, partly because my name had a lot more cur-

TJKC: I didn’t get most of this stuff when it first came out, but I reread it recently, and was laughing my head off! STEVE: Well, now you know how I felt about Fighting American. (laughter) TJKC: The whole Vanilla CupcakeTM concept seemed to be an incredible indictment of Saturday morning cartoon characters. STEVE: That’s exactly what it was. Both Jack and I were dealing with the Saturday morning aesthetic of the early 1980s, which was about as boring as cartoons ever got. Vanilla Cupcake was a direct takeoff on Strawberry Shortcake. I named her “Vanilla,” because it’s common showbiz slang for “bland” or “generic.” It was bad enough for me working on those shows; I can’t imagine how Jack dealt with it, or if he even thought about it in those terms. He was such a professional, he probably didn’t. But after all the dynamic characters and the whole universes he’d created over the years, it must’ve been very difficult working on the bland material the networks insisted upon. TJKC: How heavily was Jack embroiled in the whole Original Art Controversy with Marvel at that time? STEVE: It had been going on for years, since the day Jack left Marvel the first time. As for what stage the negotiations were at while we were doing Destroyer Duck, I couldn’t begin to tell you.

I remember reading Jack’s work as a kid, and

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Medea and Woblina Strangelegs “duke” it out in these pencils from Destroyer Duck #2. 40

life superhero es. Well, are you like me?

TJKC: Did you get a sense that working on Destroyer Duck was kind of therapeutic for Jack? That he was working out some of his frustrations? STEVE: Oh, absolutely! (laughter) No question. It was

Another early Destroyer Duck concept drawing.

STEVE: I think we sat around grinning about it a lot. (laughter) I don’t recall any specific discussions. The reaction to the book in general, certainly from the fans, was very favorable. All the negative stuff came from people in the industry. You have to understand, the comics business at that time was very much aligned with Marvel and DC. It was a very mafia-like ethos. People really felt, “If you insult my publisher, you insult mia familia.” (laughter) It’s hard to conceive in this day and age, but most writers and artists at that time were vehemently opposed to the duck lawsuit and had very little sympathy for Jack and his situation with the artwork. They sincerely believed we were going to destroy the industry if we prevailed. The publishers had them convinced. The folks who contributed to that first issue of Destroyer Duck were engaging in a real act of courage. TJKC: Do you think Jack’s working on this book had any effect on his problems with Marvel? STEVE: No real effect in the long term. It may have irritated a few people for a couple of weeks. (laughter) TJKC: Did you settle the lawsuit before or after Destroyer Duck ended? STEVE: We might still have been doing the book at the time of the settlement, but it wouldn’t have been for very long. TJKC: Did you feel the settlement was fair? STEVE: The terms of the settlement are confidential, but the way I’ve expressed it to people is this: I gave up more than I wanted to give up, and so did Marvel. So it was probably fair. By the way, before I accepted the settlement, there were two people I consulted besides my lawyer: Jack, and Jerry Siegel. I wanted to be sure they would understand my not taking the suit all the way to the Supreme Court, had it been necessary. Both of them encouraged me to settle as long as I felt the terms were fair.

rency then than it does today, and there hadn’t been a Jack Kirby comic on the stands for awhile. You know, we never intended for it to be a continuing series. It was meant to be a one-shot. But Dean Mullaney told me that the retailers he’d spoken to were very wary of a one-shot. They felt that it had to be a series or their customers wouldn’t be interested, and, of course, the retailers would order accordingly. So we said, “Okay, it’s a series.” (laughter) We could’ve just lied, (laughter) but I don’t think that occurred to either of us at the time. So we went ahead and did the series. Frankly, I think it would’ve been better if we’d just done the oneshot. Neither Jack nor I had time to be doing a regular comic book series at that point. We were both working full-time in animation, and it became a burden after awhile. Between the lawsuit, which was still ongoing, and the animation work, I was too exhausted to devote sufficient time to it. Jack probably had more energy than I did, but it must have been a strain for him, too, juggling all his commitments.

TJKC: Are there plans to do anything with the Destroyer Duck character in the future? STEVE: There were plans in the past! He appeared last year, but no one knew it. “Specimen Q” from Stryke Force #13 and 14 was Destroyer Duck. It’s just that he was encased head-to-toe in armor for the entire issue. If you look closely, you’ll see the armor has a duck bill and webbed feet. Duke was supposed to burst out of the armor before the end of the story, but at the last minute, Marc Silvestri chickened out, (laughter) and said, “No, I don’t think I really want a talking duck in this comic.” (laughter) Now where have we heard this story before? It was like a rerun of the events surrounding the first appearance of Howard The Duck, when Roy Thomas instructed me in no uncertain terms to escort Howard out of the Man-Thing book. So, anyway, Duke spends the entire story desperately trying to get out of the armor, and failing, and he comes and goes without anybody finding out who he is. But he’s making all these muffled duck sounds from inside the armor. (laughter) I haven’t even had a chance to tell Roz about this yet, but if everything works out, I’ll be writing a Savage Dragon/Destroyer Duck team-up later this year, and Duke will finally get out of his titanium body suit.

TJKC: What type of grief did you and Jack get over this thing? STEVE: There were lots and lots of really nasty comments about the first issue, (laughter) starting, I suppose, with people who tried to find nasty things about themselves in the book. There were probably more people like Shooter, who weren’t in the book but still managed to find themselves there. And of course it bothered Marvel, because they were able to determine roughly how well it sold, which gave them an idea of how much money I had to fight the lawsuit. (laughter) TJKC: As the series went on, did the controversy die down? STEVE: Sure, except for Booster Cogburn. (laughter) We weren’t really satirizing the comics industry very much. One of the few parodies we did do was the Medea character, which was a takeoff on Elektra. I’m not sure most people even realized that, though, since they didn’t look much alike, and the names aren’t similar. There wasn’t any brouhaha over that, though. Frank Miller is a friend, and he enjoyed it.

TJKC: Lastly, what do you remember most about working with Jack? STEVE: Well, there was the terror of working with someone who could draw faster than I could write. (laughter) That was a new experience. I did enjoy the satisfaction he got out of the first issue, which in some ways may have been even greater than mine. For Jack, it really was like revenge. (laughter) In Godcorp, I think he got to draw Marvel the way he always saw it. (laughter) And I got the impression the squishing of Ned Packer at the end was something he always wanted to draw. (laughter) But most of all, he made me laugh a lot.

his sweeping co smic epics and his larger-than-

➡

Humor issue, you ask? After all, Jack’s known for

TJKC: Did you and Jack discuss the various responses you’d gotten from people?

COMIC TEST COVERS: New Gods, Kamandi, others. Limited DC cover approvals $10-$25 each. Ray Spivey, PO Box 27274, Austin, TX 78755, (512)338-4971 CST evenings. ______________________________ WANTED: “Jack Kirby’s Heroes & Villains” (1987 Ltd. “pencil” edition of 1000 copies, signed and numbered). Contact: Brian Postman, #2A 238 East 24th St., New York, NY 10010 or call (212)213-6242.

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KIRBY original art for sale/trade. Mr. Miracle #12, page 1. Call after 6:00 PM, PST. 408-378-9798. ______________________________

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NEXT ISH: It’s Lights, Camera, Action! Our Hollywood Theme Issue starts out with a newly-inked cover by Jim Steranko featuring Stuntman, which leads into our feature on the character. Then you’ll learn about Jack’s work on The Prisoner, The Black Hole, The Lord Of Light, his work in animation, and other projects related to Tinsel Town! We’ll discuss how Silver Star was originally meant to be a movie, and clue you in on a few films you didn’t know had Jack’s involvement. And we’ll have more great rare and unpublished Kirby art, so be here in mid-June! special Humo r theme issue of TJKC. Why do a

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Classifieds WANTED: LATE 1940’s-50s S&K Comics: Black Magic, Headline, JTTG, YL, YR, etc. Pre-hero Marvels: Amazing Fantasy, Journey Into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales Of Suspense, Tales To Astonish. Have many duplicates to swap. Geoffrey Mahfuz, Box 171, Dracut, MA 01826. (508)452-2768. ______________________________

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Here’s a mid-1960s drawing Jack did for the Merry Marvel Marching Society. It was never completed or used, although it was revised a few times (some of the characters on this version were redrawn, possibly by Marie Severin). The figure at the bottom of the pyramid was Dr. Strange and Thor in earlier drafts. Stan Lee’s handwriting says to make him Namor (who would’ve been about to get his own strip in Tales To Astonish). Despite the unfinished nature of this drawing, it’s interesting to see some of Jack’s early pencils on characters he didn’t do that often, like Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Daredevil and Hawkeye.

Here is Jack’s rendition of an intergalactic football game, as published in a 1972 edition of PRO Magazine, the official publication of the National Football League. See page 34 for the full story on this great piece of Kirby art.