Jack Kirby Collector #28

Fant astic Four TM

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Mar vel C hara cters , Inc .

Mark Hamill John Kricfalusi Moebius Steve Rude Geof Darrow Gary Gianni Karl Kesel Andréas Mike Allred L OO K , S UE !

$ 5.95 IN THE US

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PRESENTS P A R T T W O OF ITS A LL -S T A R LO O K AT TH E KI RB Y I N F LU E N C E !

HMM... #2 8, APR IL 2000!

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Issue #28 Contents An Inference of Influence ...................2 (Mike Gartland’s investigative series looks at Stan Lee’s influence on Jack) Jeremy Kirby Interview.......................6 Tracy Kirby Interview .......................10 (Jack & Roz’s grandkids speak out about their upcoming Kirby-related projects) Agatha Harkness, Pickman’s Model ...14 (was Jack influenced by Lovecraft?)

Where Are They Now? .....................1 8 (old Kirby monsters never die...)

Crest vs. the Cavity Creeps ................2 1 The Thin Black Line .........................2 2 (a look at the career of Vince Colletta) The King in the Peninsula ................3 1 (Kirby influenced the Italians) An Interview with Andréas ..............3 2 (the French artist discusses Kirby) Kirby Swipes.....................................37 John Kricfalusi on Kirby ...................3 8 (Ren & Stimpy’s creator speaks) Centerfold: Dingbats #1....................4 0 The Kirby Version.............................4 3 (Kirby’s TV and film influences) Mark Hamill Interviewed .................5 1 Moebius Interview ...........................5 4 My Kirby Story.................................5 7 Gary Gianni & Geof Darrow ............5 8 “When Cap Throws His Mighty Shield” ...6 0 (did he influence the Frisbee, too?)

Karl Kesel Interview .........................6 2 One Man Art Class ...........................6 6 Mike Allred Interview ......................6 8 Kirby Homage Gallery......................7 0 (fans and pros give it their best shot) Classifieds.........................................7 8 Collector Comments.........................7 9

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ISSUE #28, APR. 2000

THE ONLY ’ ZINE AUTHORIZED BY THE KIRBY ESTATE

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Cover inks: Mike Allred Cover color: Laura Allred Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support.

COPYRIGHTS: Agatha Harkness, Alicia, Avengers, Balder, Black Bolt, Blip, Captain America, Crystal, Diablo, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Enchanters, Falcon, Fandral, Fantastic Four, Fin Fang Foom, Galactus, Ghost Rider, Giant-Man, Goom, Groot, Hela, Him, Hogun, Hulk, Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, IT, Loki, Machine Man, Magneto, Mary Jane Watson, Mogul, Mole Man, Mr. Fantastic, Odin, Peter Parker, Prester John, Puppet Master, Red Skull, She-Hulk, Sif, Silver Surfer, Taboo, Thing, Thor, Torr, Valkyrie, Volstagg, Wasp, X-Men, Xemnu TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • Beautiful Dreamer, Big Barda, Boy Commandos, Clark Kent, Darkseid, Demon, Desaad, Dingbats of Danger Street, Female Furies, Gasser, Guardian, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, Lightray, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Newsboy Legion, OMAC, Orion, Sandman & Sandy, Superboy, Superman TM & © DC Comics. • Oblivia © Big Bang Comics. • Fighting Yank © AC Comics. • Janus/Gemini © Ruby-Spears Productions. • It! Girl and the Atomics © Mike Allred. • Hellboy © Mike Mignola. • Corpus Monstrum © Gary Gianni. • Rat-Man, Cosmicus © Leo Ortolani. • Conan © Robert E. Howard Estate. • Prince Valiant, Flash Gordon © King Features. • Ripping Friends © John Kricfalusi & Spumco, Inc. • Ren & Stimpy © Nickelodeon. • The Prisoner © ITV. • Star Trek and all associated characters © Paramount. • Star Wars, Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker, and all associated characters are TM & © Lucasfilm, Ltd. • Creature from the Black Lagoon TM & © Universal Studios. • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles TM & © Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird. • Cavity Creeps © Crest. • “Musings” art, Capt. Victory, Dark Domain, Egghead, Goozlebobber, Klavus, Satan’s Six, Silver Star © Jack Kirby Estate.

Jack’s cover pencils for Marvel Two-In-One #12, featuring Prester John, one of many Kirby characters later reused by others.

The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 7, No. 28, Apr. 2000. Published bi-monthly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Jon B. Cooke, Assoc. Editor. Single issues: $5.95 ($7.00 Canada, $9.00 elsewhere).

Six-issue subscriptions: $24.00 US, $32.00 Canada and Mexico, $44.00 outside North America. First printing. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. PRINTED IN CANADA.

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A Failure To Communicate Interlude: An Inference of Influence, by Mike Gartland hile others write about Kirby’s influence in this issue, I’d like to Stan became the first to re-introduce a new generation to the works of discuss some of the contributions of the one professional who Simon & Kirby, Carl Burgos, and especially Bill Everett. influenced Kirby in a myriad of ways, and quite arguably brought The Hulk, Thor, and Spider-Man were the next triumvirate that him towards his greatest recognition: Stan Lee. Kirby came to co-develop when Stan asked Jack for ideas. As with the Well, think about it; although Stan may not have been an influence Thing, Stan most likely asked for a character like the Hulk. In earlier to Jack in the artistic or storytelling sense, his effect on Kirby’s work at pre-hero Marvel stories, every now and then a monster would make a Marvel, for good or bad, is present in virtually every issue of every title re-appearance, perhaps in response to fans or positive sales. Based on Jack worked on. The majority of the effects were obviously good, as reflected in the love we share for their combined work.

Although many throughout fandom speculate that Jack was the concept or “ideas” man behind the “House of Ideas,” it must be noted, however true, that Stan was the one asking for those concepts and ideas, especially during those critical early years. Stan is therefore rightly recognized as the father of the Marvel Universe, being a seminal influence behind not only Jack, but all areas of production. Stan was a creative midwife, periodically provoking Jack to bear down and push. This is not to say that Stan didn’t have ideas of his own, but one of his strengths was knowing how to utilize the creative talents of others. Stan’s input into the creation of Marvel’s earliest and most famous characters should not be disputed.

When Goodman wanted to start up a super-hero line again, he went to Lee and Lee went to Kirby—not anyone else at Marvel— to come up with a book. Many cite the similarities between the FF and Jack’s Challengers and use this hypothesis to say that most of the idea for the FF came from Jack, but Lee’s influence is obvious from the two most colorful characters, the Torch and the Thing. It’s a pretty safe bet to assume that Stan would want a monster-like character, in keeping with the then-popular line of monster-related books that they were putting out. The inclusion of the Torch was definitely Lee’s input; it was all Jack could do to keep Stan from bringing back other Golden Age heroes for that book, and convince him to go with new characters. Stan still showed his love of the old guard by reviving the Sub-Mariner, and giving the “new” Torch his own title as soon as he could.

Bringing back old characters was not to Stan’s detriment; if not for him, we of the Baby Boomers would never have enjoyed the likes of the Torch, Namor, or ironically Cap. Jack, being progressively creative, almost certainly wouldn’t have gone into the past and saved these great characters. Thanks to Stan reviving him, Captain America is more popular and recognized today than he ever would’ve been had he remained buried among the WWII relics. Also thanks to his A good catch (and a little venting of frustration) by Stan on this FF #90 page. His notes to Sol Brodsky about the reprinting of Golden Age stories early on,

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way Jack drew Alicia’s eyes: “Fix Alicia’s pupils. Sol—She’s blind! If only J.K. were consistent.”

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Page 14 pencils from Thor #144. It appears Jack came up with the somewhat out-of-character subplot of Balder being secretly in love with Sif. Stan went along with it for that issue, but wisely never followed up on it.

this, Stan may have wanted to try a series with the same monster in the lead; but maybe it came too late. The Hulk was pretty obvious as far as a monster tie-in was concerned, and maybe this was one of the reasons that initially, he didn’t succeed. There were a lot of monster stories already ingested by Marvel readers and, compared to books like FF and Thor, the Hulk was just another monster, not super-hero, book. Thor was discussed previously; Jack’s love of mythology fed this title for years, with Stan’s humanistic take on gods giving it the vitality to keep going.

Ironically it is Spider-Man, Jack’s failed concept, that becomes Stan’s magnum opus and Marvel’s greatest success. Spider-Man, more than any other character, is a testament to the control that Stan had in the develop3

ment of Marvel’s heroes. Stan may not have developed these characters artistically, but he knew what he wanted, and none of them would exist as they do today if not for his influence and input. And no, I didn’t forget Ant-Man, but he also was discussed in a previous issue; I also didn’t forget that one should never mention the development of Spider-Man without acknowledging the immense input and talent of Steve Ditko. (As an interesting footnote, the rejected Spider-Man origin, where a kid finds an object that gives him his powers, may have been re-vamped and used in the origin for Thor, showing how close in time these two characters were being developed by Jack & Stan.)

You would not have seen FF #12 or Spider-Man #1 as they exist today if not for Stan. Well, so what, you ask?

The same could be said for any Marvel issue at that time. What I’m trying to point out here is not only Stan’s influence on the finished product, but the initialization of cross-marketing the characters between titles. This laid down the basis for a definitive point of reference between the characters’ individual plots in their own titles, interwoven occasionally with the other books, backed up with references in current books to previously published “back issue” stories; thus establishing a “timeline” that all of the super-hero books followed. All of this is known today as “continuity.”

Stan established it, it tied the Marvel Universe together, it was wonderful, and boy, does the current Marvel ever need it today.

Stan was able to maintain all of this continuity because he not only plotted and wrote some of the various stories, but was editor as well. Unlike DC’s method of several editors to oversee their titles, Stan was the sole editor for anything produced at Marvel. He was able to stay on top of the expanse of titles due to his acceptance of the “Marvel method” of writing, whereby the artist became a collaborator in the development of the story. This method of writing was established when Kirby returned to

Jack jotted this down on the back of one of his statted pages from FF #46. Was it a note taken during a phone plotting session with Stan, or Jack’s own idea for a subplot?

became respected by many who were for his acumen on how to render a story for the greatest impact on the reader. A big tip of the hat must be given to Sol Brodsky as well, who handled many of the production and editing assignments when Stan became swamped; truly a man who deserves more recognition than he receives.

This leads to another of Stan’s attributes: Rather than a company of seasoned professionals who dealt with their patrons accordingly, Lee acknowledged that Marvel was a “nuthouse,” filled with zanies doing their darndest to satisfy you, the fan, and enticing you to be a part of it. To this extent he debuted “the Bullpen,” a bunch of flawed humanity that was usually making mistakes, generally having a good time, and always open to suggestion. Stan, in listing credits and establishing a page devoted to the goings-on at the Bullpen, introduced the reader to virtually everyone who worked at Marvel at one time or another. Even the office workers and staff were

As reported in last issue’s letter column, Jack’s handwritten dialogue is visible in the balloons (not the margins) of the original art from Strange Tales #103, leaving the question of whether Kirby, Lee, or Lieber wrote the original dialogue for this story.

Marvel in the late ’50s, but was cemented in as the recognized standard procedure once the super-hero line became established, and due to the adaptability of the other talented artists at Marvel at that time—namely Ayers, Ditko, and Heck.

Thanks to the Marvel method and an assist in scripting from his brother Larry, Stan was free of the tedious and lengthy task of writing full scripts, while at the same time allowing his staff to interject fresh ideas into sometimes timeworn plots.

The Marvel method became a proving ground for artists seeking a new approach to their work. Some could or would not work this way; others adapted readily and are recognized today as the unsung storytellers at Marvel. After Stan’s “fantastic four” of Kirby, Ditko, Ayers, and Heck, artists like Romita, Buscema, Sinnott, Severin, Everett, Colan, Roth, Tuska, and Trimpe became stalwarts to Marvel fans everywhere. Along with editing plots, scripts, and dialogue, Stan edited the art as well. For someone who wasn’t an artist, he

Holy Marvel Minutiae!

The back of another FF #46 stat shows Kirby’s handwritten directions to what looks to be a lunch meeting with Stan.

Does anyone know if the Seawane Club still exists?

Another example of Stan’s important influence as an editor: This panel from FF #89 features a Romita face on the Human Torch. The reason is clear from Stan’s note: “Change face--he looks like Reed--he should be Johnny!”

mentioned in the books; to this day fans seek out Flo Steinberg. Readers might never have known that draftsmen like John Severin, Paul Reinman, Chic Stone, George Roussos, and Joe Sinnott worked at Marvel had Stan not given a credit line to inkers, something never done on a regular basis anywhere; and giving credit to letterers was unheard of, but what Silver Age Marvel fan doesn’t know who Artie Simek or Sam Rosen were? As a matter of fact, some of Stan’s funniest writings were at his letterers’ expense. Stan would generally have the letterer be the butt of an alliterative list of quips, after introducing himself, the artist, and the inker; and what gives the humor an ironic twist is that the letterer would be forced to letter in the quip. It was all in good fun.

Now before you go writing off your letters about these things existing in previous companies like Fawcett, EC, or DC, I’m not saying that Stan was the first to do such things, but to his credit he did them in such a way, and expanded upon them to 4

Jack appears to be jotting down notes for his Toys For Tots poster during a phone call to Stan. This was on the back of stats from Thor #152.

If there was too much good material in one story, Stan would have Jack stretch it out or save it for future use. Kirby’s creativity had to be properly controlled or his plots, concepts, and characters would run roughshod over each other, becoming jumbled, smothered, or forgotten. Jack needed a strong editor, which is why many cite his best work as coming from his relationships with Stan and Joe Simon. Although Jack’s Fourth World storylines are excellent in their conception and design, it would’ve flowed better had he employed such an editor, in my opinion. Stan managed to keep Jack’s stories from becoming disconcerting.

That last word can be used in that context, but that brings me to another of Stan’s talents: A word that you don’t see everyday, or may have to look up; the use of words, the turning of a phrase, the allocation of alliteration; in short, this guy could write. No one before or since has ever dialogued comics like Stan. His use of colorful, melodramatic flowing phrase sent fans by the ton scurrying for their dictionaries and thesauruses; and I’m not only talking about ten-year-olds, but college kids as well. How many of us were indirectly introduced to the great writers of yesteryear because, unknown to us, Stan would paraphrase their works into his stories; remember “Oh Wasp, Where Is Thy Sting?” (Tales To Astonish #69)? What a catchy title; camp, but catchy; but I notice it still sticks in my brain after 30+ years.

But camp was what the Sixties comics were all about, and Stan rode the crest till the end. He kept a keen eye on what was topical and never lost contact with the fans. He found out what was “in” and utilized it to sell the books; remember Marvel “Pop-Art” Productions? Although it was one of Stan’s attempts that didn’t catch on, he was always trying new venues and never stopped. He knew how to sell the product without looking like a corporate employee. Stan was hip, he was in; and this is why he is looked upon today by so many fans with reverence and respect. Stan grew up with us, was one of the first adults that seemed to understand us kids; he treated us with respect, made us feel like we were a part of something cool and happening. He is as much a beloved cultural icon to us as Rowan & Martin’s Laugh-In, Mickey Mantle, or Aurora models. The fortunate thing for us though, is that Stan’s still here, still fabricating, still bombastic, still alliterative, still humorous, still nice, still Stan.★

Stan even paid close attention to lettering. This FF #89 panel includes Stan’s note to Sol Brodsky: “Lettering too stiff--Get some black dots and stuff in... (rest is illegible).”

such an extent, that fans everywhere attribute continuity, letters pages, a bullpen, credits, and crossovers to Marvel.

This is perhaps Stan’s greatest talent: To take something done previously and give it his own twist, thereby enlivening it to appear fresh and innovative. Stan was vitality incarnate; this permeated each and every book. He showed it to you, made you believe in it, and want to share in it.

Stan gleaned the best from other publishers and through irreverence and humor, made you think that it could only come from Marvel.

But what, do you ask, was his influence on Kirby? Simply put, Stan was both the ignition and brakes to the creative engine that was Jack Kirby. Stan could both feed ideas to, and take plots from Jack, turn Jack loose and then clean up the excess, saving what was needed for publication.

These panels from FF #61 show numerous Lee notes for corrections, particularly to John Romita to redraw Peter Park and Mary Jane Watson. Stan was extremely influential in maintaining a consistent look for the characters.

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P.S. Still producing, as can be witnessed at StanLee.net, where anyone can find out about the new line of online comics Stan is developing; or send your questions to Stan@stanleemedia.com. See what I mean?

Never stops... Good Luck, Stan!

Jeremy Kirby Interview Conducted by John Morrow

TJKC: Did he let you watch him draw?

JEREMY: Oh yeah, all the time—and he’d let me use some of the big animation boards to draw my horrible, horrible take-offs of Star Wars. (laughter) TJKC: So it didn’t bother him having you run all around the room?

JEREMY: Not at all. I think sometimes it was a welcome break. Other times he just didn’t let it bother him.

(Roz and Jack Kirby’s grandson Jeremy was born in 1978 in Thousand Oaks, CA. The youngest child of Jack’s son Neal, Jeremy is now 21 years old, and ready to further the family name with a number of projects in the works. The latest one is a new Captain Victory mini-series, due out in July of this year.

Our thanks to Jeremy for taking time out for this interview, which was conducted by phone on February 6, 2000.)

TJKC: As a kid, what kind of stuff did you do for fun with your grandparents?

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: JEREMY: There was a What’s your earliest memory big lake called Westlake, of your grandfather? and they’d take me JEREMY KIRBY: Going over to down to the duck pond. the house, and seeing him on We’d feed the ducks, the drawing board. I Grandpa Jack babysitting a very young Jeremy and Tracy. and that was their big would’ve been about two (below) The infamous Goozlebobber! thing. I think it was years old. He used to pretty easy to do, and it’d keep me busy for hours. We’d baby-sit me when I was really young. We lived very close to them; about five miles away. also do a lot of swimming in the pool; my grandma more TJKC: Your dad, Neal, published a lot of your grandfather’s work in the early 1970s, than my grandpa, but he’d go in every once in a while. under the Communicators Unlimited imprint. Do you know anything about that?

TJKC: Didn’t they have a dog at one point?

JEREMY: I remember a lot of that stuff around the house; maybe the Kirby Unleashed JEREMY: Back in the early 1980s they had Scruffy. He book. I also think that for a while, he was representing my grandfather’s properties. was this ugly little thing, (laughter) but he was the nicest TJKC: Did your dad talk dog. The name pretty much summed him up. (laughter) that much about comics?

I think they found him somewhere, or Lisa might’ve Did he tell any membrought him home; I can’t remember. orable stories about TJKC: While you were a kid, did fans stop by the house? your grandpa?

JEREMY: Oh yeah. It was funny for me; he was just my JEREMY: He’d grandpa, and all these peowould always ple wanted to see somebring up the subone I got to see on a ject of Jack. He was regular basis. They’d probably the most stop by, and aware of the Kirby toward my children about what my later years, grandpa did. A lot of his stories were of his very bad I was surdriving; (laughter) he’d try to drive, but would always prised at be thinking about something else. I believe once he how they let all rear-ended a police squad car. (laughter) these strangers There were some nice stories. Once, it was my grandin the house. father’s brother’s son’s bar mitzvah or something. Everyone else was inside partying, eating, and drinking. This was on the Lower East Side of New York. A homeless man walked by, and my grandfather invited him in, and had him party with everyone else—eat, drink, and be merry.

TJKC: Did you spend a lot of time with Jack and Roz? JEREMY: Oh yeah, definitely. I used to go up to the Ruby-Spears building a lot with my grandma and grandpa when I was visiting. They had a cool video game in the lobby that’d I’d always play while my grandpa was in there. My grandma would usually stay with me in the waiting area there while he would go in. He was never in there more than an hour—or it seemed like it, anyway.

TJKC: When you’d go over to the house, was Jack usually drawing all the time?

JEREMY: Yeah, a lot. All through the afternoon, and after I’d go to sleep. I’d wake up in the middle of the night and look across to his studio from the other side of the house. You could see him with his back facing the window, just drawing at the board.

TJKC: Was he working on animation stuff at that time?

JEREMY: Yeah, that and I think some of the Pacific Comics stuff.

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TJKC: As a kid, did you read comics at all?

JEREMY: My favorite comics when I was young—and about the only ones I really read—were Sergio Aragonés’ Groo books, and some of the Captain Americas, reprints of the Airboy stuff, as well as Captain Victory.

JEREMY: Yeah. Because he was always up so late, my grandfather used to sleep until about eleven o’clock. My grandma would have me wake him up at eleven. When I was younger and he was sleeping, I’d run as fast as I could into the bedroom and just jump! (laughter) He’d be all startled, but for the next half hour he’d sit me down and start telling me stories of the Goozlebobbers. They were taking over the world, and we’d hide under the covers: “There goes one now, running past the window!”

TJKC: But you weren’t a fanatical comics readers?

JEREMY: No, no. I liked the ideas of everything and the imagination that went into them, but I wasn’t that into reading most of them. I had a few I liked, and that was about it.

TJKC: So, first thing in the morning, he was firing away with stories?

JEREMY: Yeah, first thing—he dreamed about them or something—and sometimes that would go on for an hour. He had a better imagination than I did, and I was five years old. (laughter) That was almost an inside thing in a way. It was something to do to keep me busy. It almost seemed as if he liked playing “make believe” more than I did.

TJKC: In Captain Victory #4-6, there was that very odd Goozlebobber in the backup stories. There’s a kid named Jeremy in there, and the prevailing wisdom is that Jack based the character on you. Is that true?

TJKC: How did the Goozlebobber actually show up on the comics page?

JEREMY: I’m not sure. Maybe he thought, “Wow, Jeremy seems to like it.

Let’s see if it’ll work here.”

TJKC: Did he tell you he was doing it?

JEREMY: My grandma told me later. I didn’t really read the issues until later on. That’s when my grandma said he had drawn me into it. I didn’t know that until years later, when I was maybe ten.

TJKC: There was another kid in that story. Was he based on anyone?

JEREMY: It could’ve been, but I’m not sure. He probably just made it up.

TJKC: Did he ever do any drawings to help you with school projects?

JEREMY: Not really, only because I wasn’t as good at school as my sister. He drew some pictures for her book reports.

When I was younger, he’d come into my preschool class, and draw pictures for the entire class. Right in the middle of class, the teachers would let him come in, and he’d start drawing. It was on the big animation boards. I don’t know if anyone still has them, or if he gave them to the school, but that’s what he’d do to entertain the whole class.

TJKC: Did you ask him to do that?

JEREMY: I think it was more my grandma’s idea. It was the religious preschool, so everyone knew who he was. I think they just asked him to come down. He’d have me go up there sometimes and draw in front of everyone, but my artistic abilities aren’t quite what his were. (laughter) TJKC: As you were growing up, did your friends know who your grandfather was?

JEREMY: A lot of them did. It meant more to them that he was this big comic book creator than it did to me; to me he was just Grandpa. When I moved up north to central California, I had a friend who was a big comic book fan, and it took him years to get over that my grandpa was Jack Kirby.

Pencils from Captain Victory #3, page 20.

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TJKC: As you got older, did you start going to conventions with Jack and Roz? JEREMY: Over the years, I’ve been to 13 or 14 San Diego Comicons. They started bringing me before I could remember. When I was two years old, Chuck Norris happened to be down at the Con. He was a big fan of my grandpa, and he came up. My parents keep telling me about it: “Chuck Norris held you when you were little.” (laughter) TJKC: Any other memorable moments from those cons? Were you at his booths watching people come up?

JEREMY: Yeah. I remember the old convention center and going to the masquerade balls. I remember the hotels better, because that’s where I would play around. Sometimes they’d let me head off by myself, and I’d go through all the booths. I’d head for the science-fiction, Star Wars, that kind of stuff. I used to love all the Star Wars stuff.

TJKC: What were your hobbies growing up?

JEREMY: I loved designing things. I designed amusement parks. In one of my grandmother’s bedrooms, I built a giant-size amusement park, complete with every ride; it took up the whole bedroom. I’d find things laying around the house that looked similar, and cut things up to make 3-D

models. Then in seventh grade, I started drawing giant maps. I don’t know why; they’d just catch my attention. Kind of like the Sim City game, but just on a piece of paper. I still have one on my wall. It’s about 14 feet long, just a giant map of a city, with complete details; little homes, freeways, airports, you name it, it’s there.

Whenever I feel artistically inclined, I just start drawing. It’s not very good, but I just do it.

TJKC: Were you a pretty avid reader growing up?

JEREMY: Not until high school. I liked Stephen King and Michael Crichton; I liked a lot of their books. When I was younger, it was mostly just movies for me.

TJKC: Did you see them with your grandfather?

JEREMY: Yeah. In fact, my first memory of seeing a movie was The Empire Strikes Back, and I remember what he said. It was in the beginning of Empire Strikes Back, and it was the first time anyone had seen the two-legged “chicken-walkers.” I remember him turning to my dad, and saying he didn’t think that was supposed to come out until the third movie.

TJKC: So he must’ve kept abreast of the developments with Star Wars.

JEREMY: Yeah. He used to have a lot of the sci-fi books, or maybe he knew someone who was working on them, but he was just startled. He didn’t think that was supposed to be in the second movie. Hasbro or Lucasfilm sent my grandpa giant boxes of Star Wars toys. They would probably be worth thousands now, but my sister and I never put them down.

TJKC: Have you always had an interest in continuing what your grandfather did?

JEREMY: Definitely. Unfortunately, I never got the chance to work with him directly, but I feel with Captain Victory, it’s kind of like my chance now.

id-1980s. ing in the m w ra d s r ta S Silver r in Jeremy’ Jack with a t will appea a th rt a d i-series. of the unuse (top) Some Captain Victory min

TJKC: Your first real taste of carrying on the Kirby name was the bumper sticker you produced a couple of years ago. How well did they do?

JEREMY: We sold almost 5000 bumper stickers.

I still have a few left. We also did his Space Collage as a large full-color lithograph; we have a few of those left, too, available on the web site.

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TJKC: Tell us about the site.

JEREMY: It’s called the Jack Kirby Web Experience <www.kingkirby.com>. It was started about a year-and-a-half ago. There are message boards there, and a place you can write down your memory of my grandpa. There’s a photo gallery with pictures of him and my grandmother, and a link section. There’s also some audio files and an art gallery.

TJKC: And now you’re releasing a new Captain Victory comic under your Kirby Comics imprint.

How did this whole idea come about?

JEREMY: It was three years ago or so, and I brought it up to my grandma. I said I wanted to do something with one of grandpa’s stories, and Captain Victory was one of the more popular ones. It was the one I knew more about than the rest, so I did a story way back then. It didn’t really go anywhere, since I was a lot younger; but the idea has been around for a few years now.

TJKC: So it’s based on Captain Victory characters, but using a story you came up with.

JEREMY: Yeah. There were some unpublished Captain Victory pages, and some other pieces that could work into the Captain Victory universe. We added that to the original artwork from some of the books that has been completely retooled, and I wrote a story to them.

TJKC: So you rearranged individual panels from the original books, and mixed them with unseen art to make sense with your story?

JEREMY: Exactly. It’s a three-issue mini-series, shipping in July. Each issue is black-&-white, 32 pages. The front and back cover are fullcolor. Each issue has quite a few pages of art that’s not been seen before.

TJKC: Are you doing the production work on it yourself?

JEREMY: Some of it. There are a lot of people who are helping out, just to be nice. Despite the fact that the art is already done, it’s taking about 20 hours per page, because the art is 20 years old, and it wasn’t always taken care of.

Then we’ve got to remove the original text, and retool the pages. The finished product

came out really great.

The hardest part about the book was that all the art had pretty much already been done. I couldn’t really introduce new characters. I’m working on the last book now, and I hope to wrap it up with three or four pages drawn by another artist. I’ve talked to a few people, but I can’t announce any names yet.

JEREMY: Yes, the plotlines for the book are done. The whole concept was on the art; it’s all Jack Kirby. I don’t think we’re going to have Kirby Comics publish it; we’re already talking to one of the main publishers to put that out. It just a question of when we’re releasing it, due to Mark’s schedule. We’re going to co-write that one. We’ve already talked to Steve Rude, and although he won’t be able to draw the inside of the book because of his current commitments, he does want to do the covers. There is already another artist involved, but we’re not ready to release the name just yet.

Everything’s a “go” except the schedules.

Other than that, we found another “Tiger 21” drawing which we’re trying to come up with a concept for. It’s a name that’s been around since the 1940s. There are two drawings we have of the character, and although they’re similar, you wouldn’t really know it if you just glanced at them. It just goes to show, he came up with quite a few things with the same name.

TJKC: Do you have any other projects coming up? Last year, Mark Evanier showed me a really beautiful unused Kirby concept you guys were planning to develop into a series.

TJKC: How would you say your grandparents have influenced you?

JEREMY: From playing together when I was younger, just the overwhelming influence of his characters on my imagination—and that he was kind and caring toward other people.

That was the biggest influence from my grandmother; just always being nice, and giving money to charity.

Even when she said she wasn’t going to, she’d break down and do it anyway! (laughter) Around 1996, I moved in with my grandmother. My grandfather had already passed away, and my grandmother basically raised me from that point on; she was my mother in a way. When I was thinking about doing the bumper stickers, she was the one saying, “Oh, go for it, get this done.” The same thing when I wrote the first Captain Victory; she was a big influence on getting me not to procrastinate, and just get the stuff out there.★ (EDITOR’S NOTE: King Kirby bumper stickers are still available for $3 postpaid, and the Space Collage lithograph is available for $12 postpaid payable to: Jack Kirby Comics, 27 Redbud, Rancho Santa Margarita, CA 92688, or check out Jeremy’s web site at <www.kingkirby.com>.)

More pencils, this time from Captain Victory #4, page 13.

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Tracy Kirby Interview Conducted by John Morrow (Tracy Kirby, daughter of Jack and Roz’s son Neal, was born May 12, 1972. Like her brother Jeremy, she is actively working to keep the Kirby name alive, making the most of her close proximity to Hollywood by developing some of her grandfather’s properties for film and animation. She recently achieved success when Dark Horse Entertainment optioned the rights to her grandfather’s Satan’s Six series, with Tracy maintaining a producing role on any features that come from it. Our thanks to Tracy for participating in this interview, which was conducted by phone on February 23, 2000.)

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: As a child, did you remember your dad Neal talking a lot about your grandfather?

TRACY KIRBY: Yes and no. I grew up being with my grandparents all the time. I was born and raised in Thousand Oaks, and that’s where they lived. Basically, since I was born—except maybe for the one year my parents moved to New York, and then moved right back to California— I was always with my grandparents. He wouldn’t really talk about him per se as if we were far away, and tell stories about him. If I heard stories about my grandfather, it was from his own mouth—all firsthand, and from my grandmother, too.

TJKC: Do any particular memories really stand out? What’s the earliest thing you remember about your grandparents?

TRACY: Gosh, a little bit of everything. Most of my birthday parties since I was three or four years old were at my grandparents’ house. They had the pool, the great backyard; it was the ultimate party backyard! (laughter) I remember as a little kid, my grandparents were so involved in all the little events in my life, particularly birthdays.

I remember one time for Halloween at my parent’s house in Thousand Oaks, my grandparents came over. I think it was the year I was dressed like Tinkerbell, and my brother was a pirate. (laughter) My grandfather tried to scare us when we were coming back with all our candy. It didn’t work on me, but it worked on Jeremy; he threw his candy up everywhere! (laughter) [Grandpa] felt guilty afterwards, but I was laughing.

TJKC: Jeremy didn’t tell us about this story in his interview. (laughter) TRACY: C’mon! (laughter) He was very little. I don’t think he’d remember that— but from birthdays, to any time I was involved in something at school, they were always there. School plays, softball, Girl Scouts; they were involved in everything.

TJKC: Did they ever get too involved, to the point where you were embarrassed in front of your friends?

TRACY: Not really. They were pretty much “it” for me, and I loved being with them all the time. I really can’t look back and remember a time when I thought, “Oh no, there they are again.” I loved them being a part of my life, that’s for sure.

TJKC: Jeremy mentioned that Jack and Roz were the de facto baby-sitters, being so close to where you lived. Did you go to their house, or did they come to yours?

TRACY: We would usually go to their house. I loved his studio, because there were a lot of cool things to play with and look at. Usually he would let Jeremy and me draw at one of the tables; unfortunately, we didn’t get the same drawing ability, (laughter) but he wouldn’t say anything.

Usually most of our time, if we weren’t watching TV or a movie, we would be inside his studio, drawing along with him. He would give (top) Tracy as she looks today, and with her Grandfather years ago. (next page) Pencils from Satan’s Six #1 with Jack’s original dialogue.

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us pointers on stuff.

(Unfortunately it didn’t rub off, cause I still can’t even draw stick figures well.)

He had tons of books in his studio; everything from Little Nemo to Popeye to some really cool Japanese comic books that I used to read as a kid. I spent a lot of time in that studio.

TJKC: So you actually got exposed to lots of comics stuff as a kid.

Little Nemo is a pretty refined taste for someone who isn’t a comics fanatic.

TRACY: Oh yeah. I had my favorites; I read a few and loved looking at the pictures. I vividly remember Little Nemo.

He had a box of these old watercolor paints, and that’s one of the momentos from the studio I have. There were all these little bottles in this really old case.

TJKC: Are they Dr. Martin’s dyes?

TRACY: Yeah! I used to play with those so much, and he used to let me use all of his paints. I thought it was the coolest thing.

That’s one of my momentos I’ll always keep.

TJKC: You should hang onto those. There are plenty of comics artists who’d love to get their hands on Jack Kirby’s set of Dr. Martin’s dyes. (laughter) You let us run the book report art he did for you [TJKC #23]; did he do a lot of drawings for you when you were little?

TRACY: Not really. That UFO report was probably the only thing he ever did for one of my school projects, but that was probably my own doing.

I always liked to do everything on my own. I always liked cutting things out of magazines, and stuff like that when I was a kid. So I didn’t ask him for a lot of artwork on papers—but drawing-wise, I’ve found a couple of little pictures. He drew a cat, he drew a picture of a horse for me, and stuff like that which I’ve kept in a momento box. I guess I never really

asked for his drawing expertise. I never really thought of him as an artist, just good ol’ Grandpa—but the book report was a given: Jack Kirby, UFOs—“Grandpa, draw me an alien!” (laughter) There was no doubt on that one.

As a kid I always wanted to be a marine biologist, so I did reports on dolphins and whales, and the ocean itself. I just used National Geographic pictures for those.

TJKC: I know Jeremy appeared in one of your grandfather’s Captain Victory comics. Did he base any characters on you?

TRACY: In Silver Star, the little girl playing the guitar. The song she was singing might’ve been something from Susan, because she wrote a lot of songs.

TJKC: The first time I was up at Roz’s house, she showed me a photo of you dressed as Little Orphan Annie in a play, and proceeded to dote on how smart and beautiful and talented you were. Is it safe to assume she did that with everyone who came to the house?

TRACY: Yes. (laughter) Both of them were so proud of me when I played Annie. Another great memory is seeing Grandpa watch me sign autographs to little kids after the play—another Kirby in the spotlight. (laughter) TJKC: I think Roz mentioned you were going to be a marine biologist. Is that what you went to school for?

TRACY: No, I never actually emphasized in marine biology. As a kid, that was an interest of mine, and when I first went to college I took two microbiology classes, and I thought, “Whoa! I don’t want to do this!” (laughter) TJKC: She said you were going on dives at the time.

TRACY: Oh yeah. I’ve always been diving; I’ve been scuba-diving for almost ten years now. I finished my G.E.s in college in Florida, and one of my friends was a scuba-diver, so I learned how to dive and have been diving ever since. I’ve gotten to be more professional at it, where I’ve learned how to teach scubadiving, so I can do that for my own personal interest. California has great diving, so I’m happy.

TJKC: So Lisa’s a surfer, and you’re a scuba-diver.

TRACY: She’s above the water, and I’m below—and we both have no desire to do the other. (laughter) Underwater’s very different; maybe it’s a claustrophobia situation. It’s very scary; it took me about two years to really enjoy it.

Your imagination does go a little crazy down there, especially when you’re on shipwrecks, and you’re thinking, “When’s that big sea monster going to pop out?” (laughter) TJKC: What’s the most exciting dive you’ve been on?

TRACY: I have quite a few good ones. I 11

would say diving off of Catalina Island, when we did a night dive. I had a friend who had a private boat, and we went out there in-between an El Niño year. The water was exceptionally warm, so it caused all the water around Catalina Island to glow with bioluminescence, which is the plankton that emits light. When they get disturbed, their defensive mechanism makes them emit a chemical that produces light. When the water’s warm, there’s millions of them, so when you jump in the water, you cause sparkles everywhere. The water lights up like fireworks; it’s really, really cool. The water was so clear, that we dove down about 100 feet, and you could look up and see the moon, and there was bioluminescence everywhere. We were just floating in midwater, taking turns swirling around, causing all these lights; it was really cool.

TJKC: Other than diving, what else are you into?

TRACY: Well, I’m writing. I’ve written one screenplay with a friend, and I’ve written several treatment ideas for other stories. I’ve even started writing a children’s story. That’s a hobby I’d love to develop further. Being out here in Hollywood is actually giving me the opportunity to take the time to start writing down the ideas that are always in my head, and start putting things on paper. Down the road, that’s something I’d really like to pursue. Once I get my grandfather’s stuff produced for film and animation, I can actually see if anybody would like my own crazy material, and carry on the Kirby name that way. I can only try.

TJKC: Would you say Roz was a big influence on you? Because you have some of her feistiness. (laughter) I mean that in a good way.

TRACY: She was definitely always in control, and I looked up to her as a very strong person, very dependable. Both of them were the most honest, forgiving people you’d ever meet, and the nicest people to boot.

I’d hope people would look at me the same way. I think the reason I’ve been able to do a lot, and see a lot of the world is because they were so supportive of everything I ever did. Just verbally, always giving me encouragement, and my grandfather giving me other ideas, and helping me expand on my own ideas.

They were both very influential in that way.

TJKC: The last couple of years in San Diego, I’ve seen how at home you are around all the—and I mean this delicately—“comic book geeks,” (laughter) of which I’m one. You seem to have a real grasp of who’s who, who the publishers are, and who the characters are, especially for someone who didn’t grow up reading comics. Did Jack and Roz take you to conventions as a kid?

TRACY: No, not really. I did go to a couple of San Diego cons when I was eight or nine. David Folkman used to take me around to all the artists; there was one year David walked around with me and Grandpa and got all these artists to draw little pictures for me. I think they’re all dated 1976, so I must’ve been four years old. I have about thirty pictures from all these artists; Mel Lazarus, Carl Barks, and Bob Clampett drew one for me.

The last couple of years, I’ve made quite a few friends out here who know everybody. I’ve just taken it upon myself to keep his name out there. Jeremy’s been doing a great job too, with his comic book and web site.

Let’s face it; I get a little angry when I see “Stan Lee Presents” at the big Marvel booth there. I know people know Jack’s name and who he is, but I definitely want to carry his name as far as possible, and hopefully take it to new heights. The last couple of years, I’ve had a blast going to the Con. I love those people; they’re so much fun.

They’re definitely interesting! (laughter)

© Sergio Aragonés.

TJKC: Let’s talk about some of the projects you’re working on now. The most high-profile thing is probably Satan’s Six. Tell us how that came about.

TRACY: That’s finally been cleared. Dark Horse has optioned the property for use as a possible feature, live action or animation. I’m attached with Dark Horse to co-produce the project if and when it gets set up as a picture.

An option means Dark Horse has a certain amount of time to sell the project. Right now I’m working with Mike Richardson [Dark Horse’s president] and the VP of Entertainment there, deciding on a writer. After we get the screenwriter, we hopefully get Universal to go for it. It’s slow going, but Mike Richardson is very excited about it.

TJKC: Who initially approached whom on this project?

TRACY: I approached Mike. It’s been about two years; I first brought it up to him at the San Diego Con in 1998. He wanted to do it, and it took up until San Diego 1999 for paperwork and Hollywood lawyer stuff to go through. In 1999 we just clarified everything, and the contract was finalized, and back in October it was cleared. It’s amazing how long it takes. Satan’s Six was the first project from the Kirby Estate to get set up.

(top) Egghead pencils from Anything Goes #2. (above) Tracy with David Folkman at the 1999 San Diego Con. Above is a Sergio Aragonés cartoon, one of the many David got cartoonists to do for Tracy.

12

TJKC: It sounds as if the Estate as a unit has all these Kirby properties, and you took it upon yourself to promote Satan’s Six. Is that accurate?

TRACY: Yes.

until one of these projects comes through. It’s great; they’re charters, so you work two weeks, and you’re off two weeks, so I have time to focus on my Hollywood projects. It works out really well; I like it.

There are so many possibilities that I’m really excited about. I hoping we’ll be able to keep the road going.

TJKC: So different family members can promote their own pet projects?

TRACY: Exactly. Because of Satan’s Six, to make it easier for the Estate to set up other projects, we got an agency called Endeavor in Hollywood who’s going to help package other Jack Kirby properties. It’s a pretty big agency, so we’re happy about it. They represent a lot of big writers who’ve written most of the top ten movies the last couple of years. They represent the WWF. (laughter) So I’m pretty excited. Right now, with the help of the agency, the Estate is putting together a presentation package of properties that we’re going to give the agents. They’re going to help set it up, so we don’t have to do everything on our own anymore. The agents will do what I did on Satan’s Six to make it easier— I hope! (laughter)

TJKC: Last question: What is the most important thing your grandfather taught you?

TRACY: Believe in your dreams that show you who you really are, and never stop believing in how far you can really go—and “Don’t take crap from anybody!” (laughter) He was a tough cookie; I liked his attitude.

He was the nicest man, but you knew there was a tough shell in there.

You can still be honest, and nice to people, but you’ve got to have that strong inner self to be completely secure with your own self-worth. I try to stick to my guns with that.★

TJKC: You’re also working on a movie treatment for Challengers of the Unknown.

TRACY: I’m doing that on my own, with a friend of mine.

We’ve already got people at Warner Brothers interested, and we’re in the process of meeting people at some production companies to set up Challengers.

TJKC: Obviously that’s a DCcopyrighted character.

TRACY: Oh yeah. We’d have to go through Warner Bros.

I’ve gone to Paul Levitz and he’s supportive of it. I love Challengers; the whole idea, the whole premise of it would be just fantastic for a movie. It’s one of those projects that’s screaming to be made into a feature. It’s a classic action/adventure.

TJKC: What other projects are your working on?

TRACY: Just the presentation packet. Basically, we’re focusing on the Secret City Saga, Captain Victory, and Silver Star. Those are the main three.

Because it takes so long in Hollywood to get something set up, most people work on twenty projects at the same time.

You wind up getting close on eighteen projects, but you never get one made, because you didn’t focus on just a few. I’m trying to just stick with getting one of these properties made into a movie, and then you go from there.

I’m also working as an assistant on a marine research vessel that does education programs for kids all over the Channel Islands.

I’m acting as one of the dive lecturers; I’m in charge of dive safety for all the kids when they go snorkeling and diving. That’s paying the bills right now

Kirby’s original presentation art for Satan’s Six, done in the 1970s. Inks by Royer.

13

Agatha Harkness, Pickman’s Model Kirby and Lovecraft, by Robert J. Karol “The thing is gone forever,” Armitage said. “It has been split up into what it was originally made of and can never exist again. It was an impossibility in a normal world... [from] some vague abyss out of which only the most accursed rites of human blasphemy could ever have called him for a moment on the hills.”1 Later on, Armitage says: “It was—well, it was mostly a kind of force that doesn’t belong in our part of space, a kind of force that acts and grows and shapes itself by other laws than those of our sort of Nature. We have no business calling in such things from outside.”1 In Journey Into Mystery #68’s last panel, our hero calls to mind some of Armitage’s speech: “But for all his superior intelligence, Spragg was a fool! He should have known that the surface of the Earth belongs to the human race! Destiny will never allow any aliens to take it over! Fate has made Earth ours, and no alien, whether from above or below, can ever thwart the divine master plan of destiny.” 2 Both passages speak of the inhumanity and alienness of the intruder. Spragg is called an alien right out, while the “Horror” is hinted at as not being from our dimension. Both state that such creatures do not belong on the face of the Earth. Of course, Lee’s ending is much more preachy and religious (Lovecraft was an atheist) than Lovecraft’s more foreboding ending. Also, Lovecraft’s story benefits from the fact that he did not attempt to rewrite it two or three times every month, as Lee had to do. What Lovecraft’s reaction would have been to the fact that the work of a man dedicated to tearing apart clichés was being used to perpetuate one we can only guess. Either way, there seems to be a heavy Lovecraftian influence in pre-Marvel Atlas.

While Lee seemed to draw on Lovecraftian and Dunsanyian mythology in “Dr. Strange,” with the Ancient One’s temple in the Himalayas echoing the freezing plains around Leng, he had a more cosmic and scientific view in Fantastic Four, which did not focus on unexplained, supernatural events, but exploration of new worlds and universes. The more fantasy-centered stories appeared in Journey Into Mystery, which after two or three years became Thor. While Doom’s travels in his origin story seem to echo at points “The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath” and the story fragment “The Descendant,” FF was usually a comic whose stories depended on science-fiction, not fantasy (though one might argue that the later issues were space opera). However, the more rational, scientific approach of Reed Richards was abandoned in one issue for what seems to be a Lovecraft-centered romp.

Fantastic Four #94 (“The Return of the Frightful Four”; written & illustrated by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby, Joe Sinnott inks) begins with Susan Richards and her new baby, Franklin, as the center of attention of the group. In short order, Reed and Sue state their intentions of having one Agatha Harkness raise Franklin, as super-heroes are not the most dependable people for child care. A very gaunt Wizard, leader of the Frightful Four, listens in and decides to use the trip to the Harkness house as a way to eliminate a few good guys (namely the four to whom this book belongs). “Meanwhile, in a lonely house, atop a lonely hill,” the

(this and following pages) Scenes from Fantastic Four #94.

t should be supposed that any connections between Jack Kirby and Howard Phillip Lovecraft are tenuous at best. Lovecraft died in 1937, the year before Kirby’s first professionally published work (Jumbo Comics #1 in 1938), and no one can be sure that Kirby ever read Weird Tales, though he probably read Astounding as a science-fiction fan, which published “At the Mountains of Madness.” If one wishes to play “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon,” it can be noted that DC editor Julius Schwartz acted as a literary agent for Lovecraft to sell “At the Mountains of Madness.” Nonetheless, there is no written record that Kirby was a fan of Lovecraft. However, it’s amazing how many similarities there are between some Kirby stories and Lovecraft stories.

Submitted for your approval, “The Dunwich Horror.” The story is about a wizard by the name of Wilbur Whately who summons an extradimensional creature to Earth, and the wise and cunning scientists that defeat it. While “The Dunwich Horror” is dripping with Lovecraftian atmosphere, gore, and slimy creatures fit for Coleridge’s strongest opium dreams—which make it more horrific than the Atlas mystery tales of the Fifties— the formula of “strange creature coming to Earth, being defeated by small group or individual with a clever method to eliminate” was repeated again and again by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. In addition, “Dunwich Horror” and Lee’s mystery tales end with an almost-sermon on man and Earth. Compare Armitage’s words from “Dunwich Horror” to those of the scientist of Journey Into Mystery #68.

I

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caption helpfully informs us, we see the haggard Agatha Harkness talking to her black cat Ebony. The first example of a possible Lovecraft homage is this seemingly normal supernatural incident. Most witches have black cats as familiars. Yes, but most cats (with the exception of the one from Sabrina the Teenage Witch) play little or no role in the proceedings. “The Cats of Ulthar” really gets going over an arcane prayer made by “a little boy with no father or mother, but only a tiny black kitten to cherish”3 after that kitten disappears. “The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath” also contains black cats. “And because [Randolph Carter] loved nothing on Earth more than black kittens, he stooped and petted the sleek cats of Ulthar”3—and as all three stories progress, the black cats play a major role—more on that later.

After meeting Agatha Harkness, the team goes off to their bedrooms, passing through halls filled with gargoyles and statues. On page six of the story is the most Lovecraftian statue. It is a screaming green mask with yellow and black eyes and yellow hair that does not look like anything remotely human. It looks like one of the alien creatures that became the Elder Gods in Lovecraft’s mythos, though not any specific alien. When the Torch and the Thing enter the room they are supposed to share, the Thing complains “Even her paintings are fresh outta a late show horror flick!”

The accompanying picture shows a bunch of cowled witches worshiping a flaming effigy of a gargoyle. In “The Call of the Cthulu,” Lovecraft makes reference to a similar ceremony to Cthulu, of course. A passage from Legrasse’s narrative says: Void of clothing, this hybrid spawn [the worshipers of Cthulu] were braying, bellowing, and writhing about a monstrous ring-shaped bonfire; in the center of which, revealed by occasional rifts in the curtain of flame, stood a great granite monolith some eight feet in height; on top of which, incongruous of its diminutiveness, rested the noxious carven statuette.1 Except for the naked cultists, the painting and ritual are strangely similar. In addition, arcane paintings are mentioned frequently in the story “Pickman’s Model,” Lovecraft’s most anthologized work. In one section, our protagonist talks of horror artist R. Upton Pickman’s work at his Boston studio. He talks about the horrible, blasphemous paintings, especially the ghouls that inhabited them: It was the faces, Eliot, those accursed faces, that leered and slavered out of the canvas with the very breath of life! By God, man, I verily believe that they were alive! That nauseous wizard had waked the fires of hell in pigment, and his brush had been a nightmare-spawning wand.3 After inspecting these decorations, the Thing falls through a secret passage in the wall where he is subdued by the Frightful Four. Many secret passages throughout Boston are also mentioned in the course of “Pickman’s Model,” possibly leading to the bowels of Hell. Pickman says to a friend visiting his North End studio, “Do you know the whole North End once had a set of tunnels that kept certain people in touch with each other’s houses, and the burying ground, and the sea?”3 When Johnny Storm tries to help the Thing, the Frightful Four take down the Human Torch—hard—trap Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Girl in their bedroom, and then subdue the traitorous Medusa, who tries to stop them. Finally, Agatha Harkness comes to the top of the staircase to see the Trapster, the Sandman, and the Wizard victorious— and what happens next is 15

You know, it takes profound art and profound insight into Nature to turn out stuff like Pickman’s. Any magazine cover hack can splash paint around wildly and call it a nightmare or a Witches’ Sabbath or a portrait of the devil, but only a great painter can make such a thing really scare or ring true. That’s because only a real artist knows the actual anatomy of the terrible or the physiology of fear—the exact sort of lines and proportions that connect up with latent instincts of hereditary memories of fright, and the proper colour contrasts and lighting effects to stir the dominant sense of strangeness. I don’t have to tell you why a Fuseli really brings a shiver while a cheap ghost-story frontispiece merely makes us laugh. There’s something those fellows catch—beyond life—that they’re able to make us catch for a second. Dore had it. Sime has it. Angalora of Chicago has it.3 Jack Kirby had that, too. While his contributions to horror are sometimes glossed over for super-hero work, he had it—and that is not fantasy.★ Works Cited 1. Lovecraft, H.P. Tales of H.P. Lovecraft. New Jersey: Ecco, 1997.

2. Boyd, Jerry. “The Church of Stan and Jack.” The Jack Kirby Collector.

November 1999: 45.

3. Lovecraft, H.P. The Dream Cycle of H.P. Lovecraft. New York: Ballantine, 1995.

a shock.

The Wizard is not very impressed by the house’s last defender, and tries to ignore her. Agatha Harkness gives them a warning to leave (“I warn you!”). Wizard, of course, tries to show how macho he is by taking down Ms. Harkness—but something unexpected happens. Agatha’s cat starts to grow and grow and grow. The Wizard tries to escape but realizes that there is no way to escape such a large, powerful creature. This part reminds the reader of “The Cats of Ulthar” where a bunch of hungry cats finish off the villains of the piece for killing their kin. The next to go is the Sandman. His body turns to stone and nearly crushes the Trapster under his body. Trapster is pursued by a gigantic monster, a rock-shaped, fire-breathing creature.

When the Fantastic Four and Medusa come to their senses, it is to find the remaining Frightful Four members out like lights. As the FF try to come to terms with the mysterious condition of their foes, they find Agatha Harkness behind locked doors with baby Franklin, who remarks that she hasn’t heard anything. While everyone else leaves, the Thing sees that Agatha Harkness has a book entitled Tales of Old Salem, and makes the connection. The story ends with Agatha Harkness remarking, “One would almost think that I were a witch” to a somewhat nervous Thing. It goes without saying that in “Pickman’s Model,” the witch hunts of Salem are mentioned. Pickman tells the protagonist:

Unknown Kirby horror pencil, perhaps for the Dark Domain concept we presented in TJKC #22.

“You call the Salem witchcraft a delusion, but I’ll wager my four-times great-grandmother could have told you things. They hanged her on Gallows Hill, with Cotton Mather looking sanctimoniously on. Mather, damn him, was afraid somebody might succeed in kicking free of this accursed cage of monotony—I wish somebody had laid a spell on him or sucked his blood in the night!” 3 This connection with the Salem witch trials seems to show some relation between the two pieces.

To close, it would be best to say that Kirby was a great artist, whether he knew Lovecraft’s work or not. He will always be remembered for his work in all genres, from crime to horror to super-heroes. Someone doing such powerful, moving illustrations is a rare thing in any art field.

The nameless narrator of “Pickman’s Model” had much to say on the subject of occult painting: 16

The Mean Streets Never Looked So Good.

lanzman © Sam G

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Where Are They Now? A Look At The Kirby Monsters, by Madison Carter t’s one thing for a character designed to star in a comic book to become popular. It’s one thing for a guest star in such a comic book to become popular. It’s an entirely different situation when a strange monster, featured in some 8-page tale in one of many anthologies, becomes popular enough to warrant more appearances, even after 30+ years.

The Kirby Monsters were never designed to be more than one-shot creatures. They were there for Jack to tell his tale, and then to sink back into whatever black galaxy spawned them. However, with such massive popularity for anything Kirby running on all cylinders, it was inevitable that his fans, many of whom have become comics writers and artists as well, would want to delve back into the strange worlds that brought them into comics in the first place.

For most of the time after their initial appearances, most of the Kirby Monsters were relegated to reprints in various books (Fantasy Masterpieces, Where Monsters Dwell, etc.). In the mid-’70s, that changed. With the overwhelming demand for new monster books, Marvel looked to its past for help.

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Walter Simonson cover from Thor #379, paying homage to Kirby’s original Fin Fang Foom.

IT, The Living Colossus

After Ka-Zar’s run in Astonishing Tales, Marvel replaced him with a very different type of hero: IT, The Living Colossus. IT had appeared in a couple of stories during the pre-hero days as the man-made pawn of aliens bent on world domination. Now with total control of the giant gray statue, wheelchair-bound Bob O’Bryan uses IT to fight alien invaders (including the Stonus Five Gargoyles, one of which, Gorgolla, made an appearance in the Kirby Monster stories of yesteryear) and mad scientists. While only spanning four issues, IT’s tale is important for a couple of reasons. First, it is still the only time a pre-hero Marvel Kirby Monster headlined his (its?) own title.

Second, it brought back another classic Kirby Monster who would go on to eclipse all other Kirby Monsters in popularity: Fin Fang Foom.

Before we get to him, though, it must be said that IT made one more appearance, in Incredible Hulk #244, where the stone giant was crushed into dust by the Hulk.

Fin Fang Foom Despite a name that brings more snickers than awe, Fin Fang Foom would rise above the other Kirby Monsters to be featured in more comics than any other. After his first one-shot appearance and the reprints, Foom finally re-emerged in the aforementioned Astonishing Tales, #23 to be exact. Aiding the Colossus in his battle against the Gargoyles, Foom proved himself to be useful material in the Marvel Universe. He would next appear ten years later... sort of. In Thor #379, a creature who looks like Foom (he even has Foom’s original gold skin) and calls himself Foom appears to test the Norse god. Wonderfully presented

by Walt Simonson and John Buscema, this Foom is a funny creature, polite in his evilness (“Now little one, turn and stare into the face of death! For I am Fin Fang Foom and the son of Odin will learn to his eternal regret—OH! I beg your pardon! I fear that I mistook you for someone else. The red cape, you know.”)

However, it turns out to be a charade, as this creature is actually the Midgard Serpent in disguise. The real Foom wouldn’t appear again until he was called upon by the Mandarin in Iron Man #261. This, perhaps his most important non-Kirby tale, would stretch off and on until #275, as writer John Byrne

(above) Double-page splash from Astonishing Tales #24 (June 1974), featuring Fin Fang Foom vs. IT; story by Tony Isabella, art by Ayers, Lieber, and Colletta. (left) John Romita Jr./Bob Wiacek take a stab at Fin Fang Foom in Iron Man #275. (right) How the mighty have fallen; Hulk pounds IT to smithereens in Hulk #244, with art by Carmine Infantino and Mike Esposito.

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Xemnu reappears on the cover of Defenders #12, Feb. 1974.

He’d previously battled the Defenders in Marvel Feature #3.

replaced the mysticism in his origin, making Foom one of many Foom-like alien dragons. This, in my opinion, destroys the uniqueness of Foom, making him just one of countless similar creatures. Also; Foom looks very little like his previous appearances, but even the variation taken on his appearance here was acceptable compared to his next appearance, in the limited series Legion of Night. Looking nothing like the Foom we know and love, this horned(!) dragon is used to bring forth demons and such to overrun Earth by breeding with a human female. Fin Fang Foom wouldn’t return to prominence again in the regular Marvel Universe for a few years. In the meantime, Hollywood came calling. In the rush to compete with the Batman and X-Men cartoons, the Iron Man cartoon was born. Although I can’t say for sure whether Foom did actually appear in the short-lived series, as I never had the chance to watch it, he did make an appearance in the comic adaptation (Marvel Action Hour: Iron Man), as well as having a figure in the Iron Man toy line that tied in with the cartoon!

More recently, he came out of obscurity again to battle Iron Man once more in Iron Man Vol. 3, #1617 (plus a cameo in #18). Gone were the space dragons and demon rituals, replaced with a story more akin to the true Fin Fang Foom.

So far, this has been his last appearance, but with him possibly in the captivity of one of Iron Man’s foes, expect him to surface again soon.

On a side note, IT, Foom, and the next creature were all active enough in the Marvel Universe to warrant entries in various editions of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

Xemnu The Titan The original Hulk—Xemnu—resides in a special place in Marvel history, as he is the first of the Kirby anthology monsters to crossover into the “real” Marvel Universe, battling super-heroes. His first such conflict was against the Defenders in Marvel Feature #3. In this and his two subsequent schemes (Defenders #12, Hulk Annual #5), he was defeated more or less by the Hulk. Next up, he battled the Thing and Wonder Man in Marvel Two-In-One #78 before languishing in obscurity for years—before John Byrne destroyed any integrity the snowy behemoth had left in several issues of the comedic Sensational She-Hulk (#6-7 and #42-43). Byrne, who once handled Kirbyesque monsters wonderfully (Gormuu from Fantastic Four #271, anyone?) resorted to treating Xemnu as a joke, as he did most else in the She-Hulk title, including another Kirby Monster.

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(above) Xemnu’s original Kirby appearance from Journey Into Mystery #62 (Nov. 1960). (below) Byrne yuks it up with Xemnu in She-Hulk #7 (Nov. 1989).

just draw the monsters and not try to write them!), and #56. Giganto’s offspring surfaced in Fantastic Four #219; and the first Marvel Universe monsters, the Mole Men’s creatures, have been seen too many times to count since their debut in Fantastic Four #1.

Spragg, The Living Hill Once again, Byrne turned a Kirby Monster into a joke in Sensational She-Hulk #31-33 and #41-42. The less said, the better. Still, it was almost nice to see these creatures back. Almost.

They Did The Monster Mash

The Silver Age Monsters

With the above exceptions, most stories that bring back the Kirby Monsters return them en masse. The previously-mentioned Hulk Annual #5 featured replicas of five Kirby Monsters (along with Xemnu) battling the Green Goliath. Groot, the Blip, Taboo, Diablo, and Goom all returned to give the Hulk a hard time so that Xemnu would be able to more easily destroy him. Next up came Fantastic Four #347-349, an Art Adams-drawn epic featuring several Kirby Monsters stuck on the Mole Man’s Monster Island, including Vandoom’s Monster! (How he got there, I don’t know.) In Fantastic Four Unlimited #7, we see the return of seven Kirby Monsters: The Molten Man-Thing, Grottu, Rorgg, the Blip, the Two-Headed Thing, Zzutak, and Zzutak’s unnamed nemesis.

Supposedly, most of them are the dead bodies of the original creatures brought back to life (explain the electrical entity of the Blip then, please). Vandoom’s Monster, Gigantus, Groot, the Blip (yet again—man, he’s popular), and X The Thing That Lives all show up to terrorize a young Peter Parker in his dreams in Sensational Spider-Man #minus-1. The monsters are used to an even less logical extent in The Supernaturals #4, but at least it was an alternate universe, so you can’t feel too bad. Included there were cameos by Gruto, Gorgolla, Droom, Grottu, Moomba (one of my personal favorites), Grogg, Groot, and Rommbu. Finally, a very good story utilizing the monsters, as well as Golden Age heroes and some other Kirby concepts, appeared last year in the title Marvel Universe (issues #4-7). In the 4-issue story arc written by Roger Stern and subtitled “The Monster Hunters,” long forgotten heroes Dr. Druid, Bloodstone, and the Hurricane encounter or recount their experiences with several monsters including Gigantus, the Molten Man-Thing, Grottu, and most importantly, Gorgilla (not to be confused with Gorgolla, the stone creature), who turns up first to menace, then aid, the heroes. This fun story manages to link the Kirby Monster stories with the Deviants and the Mole Man! Although everything doesn’t fit together perfectly (several of the old stories are revised to fit this one), it is still a pleasure to read, and does justice to the Kirby Monsters.

It’s amazing that such strange creatures, meant for one-time consumption, can be so popular—but then, they were Kirby Monsters.

He brought character and life to them, and made those influenced by him want to return to those strange worlds he once took them to.

While they may never enjoy the popularity of Silver Surfer or a New God, they are still great creations that are obviously loved by many people.

This, to my knowledge, is a thorough checklist of all “in-continuity” appearances of the Kirby Monsters. If I left any out, please e-mail me at madisoncarter@hotmail.com.★

Many of the monsters that populated the early super-hero books, but never starred in the anthologies, have turned up time and again in various books. The Stone Men of Saturn, from Thor’s first appearance, returned to menace him anew in Thor #255. Giganto, the whale-monster servant to Namor who appeared briefly during the Fantastic Four’s first year, made several more appearances, including Namor #13 (as flashback, but with a great Byrne cover. If he would

Kirby/Abel cover for Hulk Annual #5 (1976), featuring several monsters in a story written by Chris Claremont.

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In one spot, the Creeps attacked Toothopolis on motorcycles. They ended up wiping out on a flexible road made of toothpaste. At least two other spots were later done at Phil Kimmelman and Associates, another New York animation studio.

As Jack Kirby and Marvel had been my inspiration for learning to draw, it was a thrill for me to work on these commercials. While I had gone into animation instead of the comic book business, my love for comics was (and still is) strong. Drawing Kirbyesque monsters was certainly an enjoyable way to spend my day. While I never got to meet Neal Adams or Herb Trimpe while working on the spots, I got a kick out of being associated with them anonymously.

My only regret was that Jack Kirby himself didn’t get to work on the spots.

Collaborating with Kirby would have fulfilled a lifelong dream, and I’m sure that he would have welcomed the income from the advertising work.★

Characters © Crest.

Crest vs.

The Cavity Creeps

by Mark Mayerson

n December of 1976, I started working as an in-betweener at Zander’s Animation Parlour in New York City. Zander’s was an animation studio specializing in TV commercials done with cel animation.

One of the commercials being worked on when I arrived was a 60-second Crest toothpaste commercial. That length was unusual for the 1970s, when most commercials were only thirty seconds long. But the most unusual thing about the commercial was that its design was heavily influenced by Jack Kirby and Marvel comics.

The commercial was about a city called Toothopolis, surrounded by a wall of teeth. The city was attacked by the Cavity Creeps, creatures who bore a strong resemblance to the Thing. When it looked like the Creeps would damage the wall of teeth using their pickaxes and hammers, the five-member Crest super-hero team stepped into the fray to defeat the villains using (what else?) Crest toothpaste.

I believe Neal Adams did a full-color storyboard for the commercial with markers in his regular art style. The layout drawings for the (Mark Mayerson is the creator of Monster By Mistake, a computercommercial (done in pencil, and which determined camera angle and animated TV series currently running in Canada and Europe.) composition at the correct size for the animator) were not done by Adams, but by Herb Trimpe.

Narration for the commercial was done by Jackson Beck, who had been the voice of Bluto in the Popeye cartoons and the announcer on the Superman radio show. The commercial was animated by Doug Crane, who had recently completed work on the Richard Williams’ Raggedy Ann and Andy animated feature. Crane was an excellent draftsman whose work was very tightly executed. (Recently, Crane has been penciling issues of Betty for Archie Comics.)

The assistant animators at Zanders at the time were Ed Cerullo, Mike Baez, Joe Gray, and Jim Logan.

Mike Baez was a comics fan who had samples of the John Romita Spider-Man newspaper strip pinned up in his work area as he did clean-ups of the Crest team.

Many of the drawings were cleaned up with black markers to make them look more like comic book illustrations, then xeroxed onto cels and painted.

My job as an in-betweener was to fill in the gaps between Doug Crane’s drawings. Crane usually left three in-betweens between his key drawings and I spent an awful lot of time working on the Cavity Creeps.

The drawings (often with three Creeps on them) took me an hour apiece. The interior detail of the black areas and squiggles all had to blend properly from one drawing to the next. In the course of a work day, I’d create less than two thirds of a second of screen time.

The commercial must have been successful. In 1977, I worked on two more Crest spots at Zander’s using the same characters, though they were only 30 seconds apiece. These were also animated by Doug Crane and cleaned up by the same crew of assistants. (top) Roughs for Cavity Creeps. (above) Herb Trimpe’s Kirbyesque pencils from What If? #3.

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The Thin Black Line A rough and scratchy defense of Vince Colletta by Robert L. Bryant Jr. e swooped in to save comics publishers on deadline hundreds of times. He trashed the work of artists he should have worshiped. He was loved. He was hated. If he had been a character in a Marvel comic, the cover would have screamed, “The MYSTERY of VINCE COLLETTA! HERO or VILLAIN? YOU DECIDE!” This is the paradox of the late Vince Colletta. He was Jack Kirby’s frequent collaborator during the ten most amazingly fruitful years of Kirby’s career, the early 1960s to the early 1970s. Fantastic Four, Thor, New Gods, Mister Miracle, Forever People— all passed

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under Colletta’s fine-tipped pen, which he preferred to the traditional inkers’ brush. Yet many, perhaps most, Kirby fans revile Colletta’s work, and comics histories either ignore him (Duin and Richardson’s Comics Between the Panels) or dismiss him (“Ignored most of the line work of the pencilers he worked over,” says Jones and Jacobs’ The Comic Book Heroes).

“He’s become a favorite whipping boy.... The fan attitude toward Vince Colletta has totally crossed the line,” says comics writer and editor Tony Isabella, who became friends with Colletta in the 1970s. “Half the time, they’re not discussing the work, they’re discussing the man personally—and they don’t have the information to do that. They didn’t walk in his shoes.”

Colletta was a product of the comics system, the New York assembly line that printed both gems and junk with once-amonth efficiency, says Mark Evanier, who was a Kirby assistant in the 1970s and who helped kick Colletta off Kirby’s Fourth World books.

Colletta made everything look “average,” Evanier says, whether he was inking Grade A art or Grade D art. “He delivered a consistent product to editors, and they kept hiring him.”

Over and over, for three decades: Jerry Bails’ Who’s Who of American Comic Books lists at least 50 titles that Colletta worked on for Charlton, at least 90 for the DC line, and nearly 100 for Marvel/Timely/Atlas.

Colletta was a classic “utility player,” Isabella says— always pinch-hitting, jumping into books that were about to miss dead-

(right) Splash page from the “Tales of Asgard” story in Journey Into Mystery #125, showing Colletta’s ability to capture an antiquated feel.

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line. “You weren’t going to get the best inking in the world from Vince,” Isabella says. “He did take shortcuts.

I can’t defend individual bad jobs.... He never had the financial opportunity to do great art. Nobody ever said to Vince, ‘We want this really good.’ They said, ‘We want this Tuesday.’ ” “Vince was very valuable to editors,” Isabella says.

“When these jobs were coming in late... Vince would turn them around quickly. Vince pulled a lot of butts out of the fire.”

(Isabella wasn’t referring to Kirby, who never met a deadline he couldn’t beat, but to other books late for other reasons—usually, Isabella says, because of their writers.)

Isabella was about 21 and working as a Marvel editorial assistant when he met Colletta in 1972.

Colletta, already whitehaired, was about a generation older than Isabella— one of Kirby’s contemporaries, give or take a few years. “He was like this Italian uncle,” Isabella says.

“He was always real decent to me.”

Evanier remembers Colletta as a slim and handsome man of Italian descent (Sicilian, according to Bails), with a background in romance comics and a long list of friends in the industry, always meeting and greeting, “like a charming insurance salesman,” always juggling non-comics jobs, including photography for men’s magazines; and he was a fast inker—very fast— fast enough, in the early ’70s, to ink the 15 pages a week that Kirby was penciling for DC, plus inking a load of other books such as DC’s Lois Lane, Evanier says.

The Colletta secret: He used assistants, and traded quality for volume; and, he must have thought, why the hell not? Colletta wasn’t being paid well by comics publishers, Evanier notes— really, no one was.

Page 2 pencils from Thor #144.

Throughout this article, we’re showing Kirby’s pencils from that issue alongside Colletta’s inks, so readers can see what he’d change when inking a typical issue. Note the missing background items in the panel 2 inks shown on the previous page.

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recalls veteran artist and inker Dick Ayers. “I always felt something was missing; his interpretation of my pencils lacked dramatization.... I had a saying: ‘If I draw seven trees in a panel, he’ll do one and erase the others.’ ” There are different kinds of stories as well as different kinds of inkers, and Colletta’s style worked well on one kind: Fantasy. Timeless fantasy. Kirby’s Thor was a timeless fantasy. Its elements were primarily natural elements: Rock, wood, leather, hair, horn, earth, air, fire, water— all the things that the Enchanted Forest is made of.

Colletta’s rough, raw, scratchy, inked-with-a-pen look enhanced those natural elements even as he erased those parts of Kirby’s panels he didn’t feel like inking.

Thor’s golden locks looked like hair; his hammer looked like rock; its thong looked like leather.

Mangog’s giant horns looked like bone. Colletta deleted detail, to the fury of Kirby fans with access to the original pencils, but that lack of detail gave Thor a timeless look and feel, just as a fairy tale about thee-thou Norse gods should have had.

“He gave Thor a kind of Hal Foster look,” says Isabella. It might have been an accident, but the Colletta touch worked on Thor, and it worked for years. It’s impossible to think of the series without Colletta’s thin black lines.

“When Stan Lee chose Vince to ink Thor over Kirby’s pencils, it was a successful team-up which never hurt sales,” says former Spider-Man penciler and Marvel art director John Romita Sr. “That is very important, since, if fans didn’t like it, Stan probably would have changed inkers.”

“I did like his work on Thor, and the romance stories he penciled and inked in the early ’50s,” says Ayers. “Vinnie was like the girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead—‘When she was good, she was very good, and when she was bad, she was horrid.’

Probably it was due to his use of assistants.

The ‘pure’ Colletta was good.”

(above) A key scene from FF #40. What elements got omitted before Joe Sinnott (right) got the inking assignment?

According to Evanier, Colletta was among the inkers getting the lowest page rates at DC. Like all inkers, Evanier says, Colletta set for himself a time limit to get the work done, but his timer was set lower than most. Some DC artists, like fan-favorite Neal Adams, didn’t want Colletta to even touch their work, Evanier says. Others liked him. Kirby “tolerated” him, Evanier says—up to a point.

“Colletta’s first goal was to produce, and that he did!” says Joe Sinnott, Kirby’s inker on Fantastic Four during that title’s wonder years, 1965-70. “He had a prodigious workload, and could turn out work like no one before or after... The most important thing in the comic book business was to meet your deadline; no one did this better than Vince. Of course, the next step was to do it as well as you could in the time that you had. In this respect, Vince was a true professional—but with all due respect, I would prefer someone else to work on my pencils!”

The constant complaint about Colletta: He ignored any parts of the panel he didn’t feel like inking—and, later, another complaint: He farmed out work to assistants. “Vinnie’s inking style wasn’t compatible with me,”

But if Thor was Never-Never Land, Fantastic Four was Circuit City. It was science-fiction, not fantasy.

Except for the orange rocks plating The Thing’s hide, its elements were all man-made, machines, plastic, metal, circuitry, electronics; it took place in a real city (New York) in a real time (the 1960s), and Colletta’s hazy fairy-tale style never worked, could never have worked.

Look at the frustrating Kirby art in the Frightful Four stories leading 24

that required bold strokes.”

Joe Sinnott differs somewhat: “To be honest,” he says, “I always felt he did his best work on Kirby. He certainly didn’t do justice to Buscema and others, but there were obvious reasons.”

By the time the Marvel Age flowered, Sinnott had worked with Colletta hundreds of times, but had never met him—that didn’t happen until the mid-1970s at a Marvel convention. “When Marvel suspended operations in ’57-58, Vince and I did hundreds of romance stories for Charlton Comics,” Sinnott recalls. “I did the pencils and Vince the inks.”

Romita says Colletta’s romance work was rock-solid, and more. “I remember when I was 17 years old and an admirer up to Sinnott’s of Alex Toth,” Romita says.

1965 entrance— “Romance, Western, war it screams for stories were eye-popping for detail, and 1948 (years before comics’ Colletta was antibig years). Vince Colletta detail. It wants to inked many romance stories be specific—a well enough for Alex Toth’s particular weave taste. It should tell you on the carpet, a how good Vince could be. particular circuitry “I always thought Vince pattern on the was a solid pro,” Romita wall—and says, “but more often than Colletta wanted not, he chose speed and to be generic. volume ($$) rather than Sinnott was a quality. This perfect fit for the (row 1) Colletta turns Kirby’s detailed architecture into simple checkerboards. (row 2) Note the missing background character. is why his FF—he made (row 3) An entire cityscape is turned to a black blob. (row 4) Where did the scepter go? reputation Reed’s machinery In all fairness to Colletta, we don’t know what kind of deadlines he was working under, but these are not isolated incidents. suffered durlook like it could ing his latter really do something; he gave days.” the series the polished sheen You can of Popular Mechanics and the almost see why exacting detail of the Sears DC thought Catalog. (if they thought And just in time. Colletta’s at all) that inks would have eroded the Colletta’s inks epic Galactus would work trilogy; would on Kirby’s have made the Fourth World Silver Surfer look series. It was like plaster, not about New living chrome; Gods, after all, would have turned and Colletta Reed’s “energy bat” had a track weapon against Dr. record on Doom into just a Kirby’s old vague playtoy. Fussy details made the FF work, and Sinnott was the patron saint of fussy details. If Kirby was going to draw skyscrapers with each brick visible, then Sinnott was going to put cracks in the bricks, by damn.

Evanier says Marvel’s Stan Lee used Colletta wisely, by letting him stay on Thor, where many felt that his style worked, and by taking him off Fantastic Four, where it obviously didn’t. Evanier believes in “casting” certain inkers for certain projects, just as directors cast actors—but even at his best, Evanier says, Colletta was not a good match for Kirby: “Colletta inked, with fine lines, material 25

ones—but Kirby’s great experiment plugged these gods into the “real world,” and the tone was sharp-focus science-fiction, not soft-focus fantasy. (Inking the New Genesis pages, Colletta must have thought, “Ah, this is Asgard.”)

At his best, on Thor, Colletta broke Kirby’s thick blacks into feathery grays, giving the art an almost antiqued feel. On the Fourth World, Colletta was often at his worst—clumsy, clotted blacks obscured Kirby’s line work. The series needed exacting details to make it real, and Colletta could not supply them.

This particularly hurt Jimmy Olsen, the Fourth World book most grounded in the standard DC reality. We needed to see the rivets in the walls of The DNA Project, the spilled oil on the engines of the Whiz Wagon, all the little touches a Joe Sinnott would have obsessed over (but Colletta did seem to come alive with his inks for Jimmy Olsen’s two-part Count Dragorin story, as if moody vampire shtick tickled him somehow).

More checkerboarding of the architecture; would Sinnott, Giacoia, Royer, Wood, etc. have shortcut this?

No one was more aware of the Colletta Problem than the young Mark Evanier, who had begun working as a Kirby assistant in 1970, around the time Kirby jumped from Marvel to DC. Evanier was a 17-year-old comics fan when he first met Kirby in 1969, and even then, he knew he just didn’t like Colletta’s inks. After he began working with Kirby at his home in Thousand Oaks, California, Evanier found out the reason why.

Inside the King’s studio, Evanier was now seeing original Kirby pencil pages and Xeroxes of pencil pages. “I was amazed how powerful it was,” Evanier recalls, but “the more I saw of Colletta’s work, the less I liked it.... Everything Jack put on a page was there for a reason. If you left something out, you were leaving out part of the story.”

Colletta’s inks routinely lost intricate Kirby details, turned elaborate cityscape balconies into “checkerboards” of straight lines, Evanier says. As he compared pencil pages to published pages, Evanier says, he would gasp, “Oh my God, this is missing, look at that!” The bottom line for Evanier: “A lot of stuff had been shortcut—the backgrounds had been simplified. The energy 26

in the work was being lost.”

Fellow Kirby assistant Steve Sherman and Evanier told Kirby at various times that Colletta should go. So did comics legend Wally Wood, Evanier says. So did fans visiting the Kirby studio and eyeballing the original pencils. “More than a few said, ‘Gee, Mr. Kirby, I see now that Colletta is ruining your work,’ ” Evanier says. “It was quite a jarring thing for a comics fan” to see the pages pre- and post-Colletta.

Gradually, “Jack grew to the point of starting to feel that Colletta was a problem,” Evanier says. Why did it take so long? There was the famous Kirby reluctance to take work away from anyone, Evanier says, and there was Kirby’s belief that a good story carried the day under almost any circumstances. “Jack didn’t look at the printed books that much. To Jack, a comic was done when it left his drawing table.... When I first met Jack, he told me it didn’t matter who inked a comic... the important part was, how was the story being told on the page?”

For Kirby, launching risky new books at a new company, the Colletta complaints added up. Then there was the geography issue: Kirby was working on the West Coast; Colletta, on the East. Kirby wanted more control over his books, Evanier says, and this 3,000-mile gap wasn’t helping. And finally, what was maybe the last straw: The “security” issue. Kirby was “super-cautious” about keeping his DC creations away from Marvel eyes until they were published, according to Evanier, but early in the Fourth World’s launch, Colletta was also inking for Stan Lee’s shop, and Colletta had a habit of showing Marvel people Kirby pages he was working on.

It was too much for the King. Kirby demanded that DC let him use Mike Royer as inker and letterer on his books. And Royer would be there in California, Evanier points out, and would work only for Kirby, not for DC. “Mike got very, very close to what Jack was penciling,” Evanier says. “I thought it was an enormous improvement... unexpurgated Kirby.”

With run-of-the-mill Colletta inks and John Costanza lettering, the brave new Fourth World had looked like all of DC’s other books, Evanier says: “Colletta made it more a DC comic than a Kirby book”— but Royer’s razor-precise inks, faithful to every line, and bold lettering made it stand out as something different, appropriate for the most personal project Kirby had ever undertaken.

When Colletta left the Kirby books, some readers howled—the familiar look, the familiar texture, were gone. Initially, readers and DC management “hated it,” Evanier recalls. “We got hate mail when Royer came in.”

Isabella can’t recall ever discussing with Colletta his ouster from the Fourth World—not unusual, since Colletta rarely seemed to chat about comics colleagues, Isabella says. They were more likely to talk about restaurants, sports, women. Comics professionals of Colletta’s generation “never really discussed each other,” Isabella says, “any more than the guy on the assembly line would discuss the guy three stations down.... These guys didn’t sit there, saying, ‘We’re turning out great art.’... They took pride in the craftsmanship, but they never thought they were turning out work for the ages.”

Note the missing backgrounds in panel 1, silhouetted figures in panel 2, and simplified skyscrapers in panel 3.

Later, the Colletta Problem and the 27

In 1975, the Museum of Cartoon Art in Greenwich, CT reported this unused cover for Thor #144 was rejected because it was “far too detailed to be inked and printed.”

Assuming that’s an accurate account, you have to wonder: Would Kirby have been forced to repencil this cover if someone other than Colletta had been assigned to ink it?

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Kirby go on. Isabella offers this perspective: “There were people in the comics industry who did far worse things to Kirby than merely not inking a background, perhaps... and that was never done out of malice.”

“These were guys making a living,” Isabella says. “The fans try to ascribe to them the same sensibility the fans have. They don’t understand the concept of comics as just a job.... [Colletta] was one of that generation—‘This is my job.’ ” Much like Kirby, Colletta took the attitude that he had to produce X number of pages in X days to feed his family, pay the rent, fix the car, Isabella says—and the days of big money in comics, the days of Spawn-like profits, were decades away, impossible, unthinkable. There was no big score, and reality was inking comics pages in a stuffy room. (above and right) Figures in the background are silhouetted, rather than ink the details Kirby penciled. (bottom) Another cityview—and outer space detail—is obliterated by Colletta’s inks.

Royer Solution were a moot point as DC chieftain Carmine Infantino pulled the Fourth World out from under Kirby, leaving him with the far less ambitious Kamandi and The Demon. (Royer’s inks went well with the slick science-fiction adventure of Kamandi, but The Demon—a horror fantasy rooted in magic, not science—might have needed the rough-and-tumble Colletta touch.

Royer’s focus was too sharp, his “cinematography” too clear for the horror genre, where it’s what you can’t really see that scares you most.)

Even as Kirby’s star was falling at DC headquarters, Colletta’s was rising. Infantino made Colletta the company’s art director (he held the job from 1972-79, according to Bails). In the 1980s, Colletta’s friends in the industry kept him supplied with inking work. Jim Shooter liked Colletta, Evanier says, and made sure he got inking jobs after Shooter rose to power at Marvel.

Colletta died in 1991, according to Bails’ Who’s Who. The arguments over his work with

You can look at Colletta “as an abject lesson,” says Isabella. “You have to weigh your own needs and reputation above the needs of the publishers and editors.... [Colletta] was a decent guy, but there wasn’t anything he did that other people didn’t do better. He never created anything. He didn’t leave a real legacy behind.... All that anybody ever remembered is the bad inking jobs. They didn’t remember that he saved [the publishers’] editorial butts.”★ NOTES: Tony Isabella interviewed by phone 9/20/99.

Mark Evanier interviewed by phone 8/10/99.

Joe Sinnott interviewed by mail 7/29/99.

Dick Ayers interviewed by e-mail 7/22/99.

John Romita Sr. interviewed by mail 7/31/99.

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Partially-inked double-page splash from Jimmy Olsen #133. You’ve got to admit that inking a page with this level of detail would be a daunting task for any inker, especially when having to keep up with Kirby’s penciling speed.

The King In The Peninsula t’s 1971. On Italian newsstands, a new comic book makes its appearance: Fantastici Quattro, published by Editoriale Corno, which is already publishing L’Uomo Ragno (Italian for Spider-Man) and Devil (Daredevil). The Marvel Universe is slowly conquering Italian readers, with the bi-weekly Corno 48-pagers (presenting two stories in each issue in order to catch up to American production).

Fantastici Quattro publishes Lee and Kirby’s Fantastic Four in strict chronological order, and soon Kirby’s impressive style captures the imagination of readers. (above) Ortolani’s Rat-Man as the Silver Surfer.

There was nothing like (left) The amazing Cosmicus, homage to Galactus.

Marvel Comics in Italy— (below) Jack’s Yellow Kid award from Lucca, Italy. sense of wonder, pathos, and drama were cleverly mixed in a unique kind of cocktail, and the barmen were Kirby and Lee. Many Italian artists had been influenced by comic strip artists like Alex Raymond and Milton Caniff: Kirby was American, but was a totally different kind of American artist. If Alex Raymond was Ernest Hemingway and Milton Caniff was William Faulkner, Jack Kirby was J.D. Salinger, and Fantastic Four his Catcher in the Rye. There’s a generation of Italian writers and artists who grew up in the Seventies reading Corno comic books and were deeply influenced by the King (Corno also published Kirby’s Kamandi series).

One of them is Leo Ortolani. Born in 1967, Ortolani was an avid Corno comics reader and he perfectly assimilated the classic Marvel style (now almost nonexistent in the comic books of the former “House of Ideas”).

Italian critic Andrea Plazzi called him the “greatest living Marvel author.”

This may sound like an overstatement, but Leo is a clever disciple of the King. He adopts a caricatural style, but rich with Kirbyesque reminiscences. He mixes classic Kirby grandeur with campy flavors (Leo’s humor closely evokes The Simpsons’ or Mad magazine’s). Before he was a professional, for the Italian fanzine Made in U.S.A. he drew a four-part “last Fantastic Four saga,” taking place right after FF #102, the last Kirby issue (even though he still reads Fantastic Four, Leo thinks the “real” FF finished when Kirby left).

When the King died in 1994, Leo commemorated him with a beautiful pin-up: There was Kirby, with all his characters, and Leo’s creation, Rat-Man, crying over his death. Rat-Man, even if the name sounds like Batman, is a sort of classic Marvel hero parody: Rat-Man has all the problems of a Marvel super-hero, but no super-powers. Rat-Man started as a self-published series, then Marvel Italia (the company who publishes Marvel series—and most Image characters, too—in Italy) noticed it. Now Rat-Man is a creator-owned series published by Marvel Italia, so it was possible to have team-ups between Marvel characters and Rat-Man. The best is the meeting between Rat-Man and Doctor Doom, which perfectly fits into Marvel continuity. Rat-Man meets Doom in an ancient monastery in the Himalayas: Doom is a perfect disciple, but he turns evil because of Rat-Man (who thinks Doom’s beloved mother is a former hardcore porn star!). Rat-Man #6 is a moving homage to the classic Galactus Saga: the unbelievable Cosmicus wants to destroy Earth, and Rat-Man has to become a herald to save mankind.

Leo isn’t the only major Italian comic book professional influenced by the King. Antonio Serra is a writer: He co-created (with Michele Medda and Bepi Vigna) the sci-fi character Nathan Never, published by Bonelli, one of the largest comic book publishing houses in Italy (they sell more than 2.5 million copies a month). Recently, some Bonelli characters (Dylan Dog, Martin Mystery, and Nathan Never himself ) were published in America by Dark Horse. Serra has always been a strong Kirby admirer and it isn’t a mere coincidence that Nathan Never’s arch-nemesis, businessman Aristotle Skotos, looks like evil Darkseid. A colleague of Nathan (they both work for the Alpha Detective Agency), a good guy named Jack O’Ryan, looks like Orion and is Skotos’ step-son.

We couldn’t finish our brief article about Kirby disciples in Italy without mentioning the Esposito Brothers (Stefano and Denisio Esposito). Their style tries to capture Kirby’s energy and grandeur. They drew some Nathan Never stories and now are on the Martin Mystery (another Bonelli character) staff. Their Atlantis, Wizard Merlin, and Morgan LeFay look like Kirby mixed Photo by Shel with Michelangelo. Truly the King left heirs on both sides of the ocean.★ Dorf.

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ani. © Leo Ortol

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© Leo Ortolani.

A look at Kirby’s influence in Italy, by Stefano Priarone

Photo © Lombard

summation of all his qualities, but as a symbiosis. The narration in his books depends on both the intricate events of the script and the abstract symbols in his art, resulting in a unique reading. Andréas is therefore a true author, maybe one of the few totally honest in the comics’ field nowadays, who is only doing what he wants, with complete freedom over his work. In America, Dark Horse has published Andréas’ Rork series (5 graphic novels to this date) and his Coutoo one-shot. This interview was conducted by phone in French on July 5th, 1999. Andréas submitted the final copyedit. We wish to thank Lise Louvet (Edition Lombard), Franck Bouysse for the recording and, of course, Andréas for having given us so much time and kindness.)

An Interview With Andréas

By Jean Depelley and Etienne Barillier (Andréas is a unique comic book artist in Europe. Born in 1951 in East Germany, he first studied Art in Dusseldorf and at the Belgian Saint-Luc Institute. After a collaboration with Eddy Paape (co-author of the excellent Luc Orient and Marc Dacier series, as well as artist on several Jean Valhardi books) on the horrific one-shot Udolpho (1980), his first solo book as an artist, Révélations Posthumes, came out the same year with a script

by François Rivière. His artistic talents have caught the readers’ interest since the publication of the Rork series (seven books between 1983 and 1993) in the Tintin weekly, to finally explode within the pages of the two Cromwell Stone graphic novels (1984 and 1994). His dynamic storytelling is always on the move, in a constant search of weird shots and abstraction. With Cyrrus (1984), Mil (1987), and Triangle Rouge (1995), he has proved a subtle writer, giving his readers food for thought. Andréas is currently working on two series: Capricorne (Edition Lombard, four books) and Arq (Edition Delcourt, three books). Still, Andréas’ talent cannot be perceived only as the

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: In the forth volume of the Capricorne series (Le Cube Numerique), the amnesiac Capricorne is wondering what his real name is. Is he Jacob Kurtzberg or Jack Curtiss? Why this reference to Jack Kirby?

ANDRÉAS: This is because I like Jack Kirby! That is to say, I think that Will Eisner and Jack Kirby are the American comic books’ founders, in the two possible directions that I see. I have always liked Will Eisner’s Spirit too. Every name on this first page is Jack Kirby’s or Will Eisner’s pseudonym or real name. I have always been attracted to Kirby’s art. I have read a lot of things—nearly everything published by DC, when he was beginning his New Gods series—but I couldn’t keep those books because something annoyed me in a way. When TJKC came out and began publishing pencils, I was really astounded. I realized the inking bothered me then. Those pencils are absolutely extraordinary! I really think that 40% of Kirby’s work is lost with the inks.

(above) An interpretation of reality from Rork #7. (top) Low Valley’s moving epitaph from Rork #7. Both © Lombard.

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TJKC: However, Mike Royer is a very good and very faithful inker ANDRÉAS: Yes, but the art is decreased even if Kirby is inking over his pencils. Most of the strength is in the pencils, because the blacks are there and the lines can be seen.

There is much more life than when it is inked, when it’s very clean, very clear. The contrasts may be too strong with the inking.

Well, at least for me! Anyway, when I saw those pencils, I finally understood what caught me in Kirby: His expression of movement, of power; his emphasis on picture and expression with approximate anatomies, weird hands and faces. It’s not a problem because it works perfectly in Kirby’s context.

TJKC: What is drawing you to comics?

ANDRÉAS: I am attracted to doing comics for two different reasons. The one that first appealed to me was the adventure, the story.

I like to follow a character as you do in a TV series; the passion of the average reader, the desire to know what will occur next. The other reason is that I like to do complicated things, things that are hard to do. I’d like to find new ways to tell a story, ways to tell different stories.

TJKC: Do you consider yourself as a Kirby heir?

ANDRÉAS: No, I don’t think so. Kirby set the rules of a field that later influenced me— but it was not Kirby directly. I have felt a lot more influenced by him recently when I saw his pencils. He went beyond the technique to become himself. This is certainly something that I’d like to do. I’d surely like to take the same road that he inwardly took and that he expressed on a page. That’s the goal of every artist. I’d like to simplify, to be more straightforward. Sometimes, I wonder if all those details, all those little things in every corner, those perspectives, aren’t the real me. I don’t know. It’s a kind of search.

TJKC: Do you long for recognition as an artist with your elaborate style?

ANDRÉAS: No, that’s something different.

What really interests me is showing the distance between art and reality. As a matter of fact, reality is impossible to represent in comics. I don’t want the reader to forget that it’s art, because he’s reading a fiction.

In Révélations Posthumes, I worked a lot with photographs. Now everything must be built in my mind. I prefer using my imagination and the least documentation I can.

TJKC: What were your first American Andréas was kind enough to ink this Kirby piece we ran way back in TJKC #16, with spectacular results! influences?

TJKC: Your books look like mosaics as far as script and art are concerned.

ANDRÉAS: There were Bernie Wrightson, Barry Windsor-Smith.

Do you consider yourself as a “baroque” artist?

TJKC: People from The Studio?

ANDRÉAS: No, not really. Baroque, I don’t know; I have no use for the ANDRÉAS: I was less touched by Kaluta or Jones, although I like Jones word. Apparently, both art and script emerge from the same corner of very much. Barry Windsor-Smith did influence me, but he came from my brain. I’m dragged along. It seems that I can’t tell a story straightKirby. Who are the other artists I like? Neal Adams; I have always line, from A to Z without mixing the letters in-between. When I finish admired his art, with his diving angles. I took those things from Adams. reading a graphic novel, the fact is I usually get it all, read it all. I know I have always been astounded by his way to show new angles that had that I won’t read it anymore, because everything was told, explained not been drawn before. And Alex Toth; he is an artist I admire deeply, and shown. In fact, it bothers me. When I read, I wouldn’t like to because he has such a level of simplicity and directness, which is someunderstand the book straight off. I’d like to be forced to re-read, to see thing that I can’t do. I also like Gil Kane for his very strong Tarzan my own limits. The problem is that you can’t—or it’s very difficult strip. Speaking of Tarzan, Kubert did for me the best Tarzan ever. It’s to—build stories that cast your own limits. The result will necessarily so elegant, very simple, direct; even better than Hogarth and Foster. remain within my own limits as I write the stories. The best thing of all 33

would be to create a story that I couldn’t understand myself, but which would make sense. (laughs)

these days. I’d like to change with each book, practically. That is to say, I’d like to adapt the size of a book to the story, without necessarily trying to have the story work in this specific format.

TJKC: Like Kirby, you sometimes use double splashes.

ANDRÉAS: That’s right. That’s what is really nice with comic books.

They can have a double-splash just like that! That’s not a problem.

They’ve got an infinite number of pages. We are rather limited in France with the traditional graphic novel of forty-six pages. In fact, I’m a little embarrassed with the Arq series. I first wanted it published in a black-&-white king-size volume. I would have had more freedom.

TJKC: Do you fondly remember a Kirby series in particular?

ANDRÉAS: Yes. I remember what he did on 2001, because it was my favorite movie then (it is still one of my favorites, anyway). In some ways, I think it’s weird that they gave Kirby the comics adaptation. The result is rather strange. I think that Bilal’s few pages about 2001 (in the French Memoire d’outre temps graphic novel, Humanoïdes Associés, 1996) are closer to the movie than Kirby’s adaptation. It was really strange to continue with a series. Now in retrospect, I find it rather nice that he

TJKC: As a manga, maybe?

ANDRÉAS: That’s right. I’d like to get rid of this strict format, one of

Andréas may not care for little forest people, but Kirby did a lovely job on this fantasy piece used to illustrate the Robert E. Howard poem “Musings” in the 1978 book Ariel: The Book Of Fantasy.

Inks by Mike Royer.

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dared. Anyway, I believe it continued with the Machine Man series. I think it was very positive, very strong, this way he had to totally admire something rather perfect and to feel he could take it as his own, to work it into something different. In 2001, there is effectively this epic way Kirby has, but in a different aspect. I can see the connection between those aspects. What were the other series I read? I found his Kamandi series rather interesting. It is very close to Planet Of The Apes in a way.

It was nice to have plenty of different animals rather than simply the apes.

I liked it, but what I still prefer is his New Gods series.

Thor books, New Genesis is inhabited with super-heroes, some more successful than others are—but nonetheless, super-villains do not inhabit Apokolips. I’ve got the feeling Kirby was describing the world he came from with Apokolips. I can feel a strong and disturbing authenticity about it. Besides, Darkseid is one of the best DC characters. Not for his being a “good” villain, but because he corresponds to something real.

TJKC: Why? ANDRÉAS: Thanks to Apokolips and Darkseid. Like Asgard was in the

TJKC: Do you place your work in a thematic of science-fiction or in the field of fantasy?

ANDRÉAS: (laughs) Good question. I’ve never thought, “Here, I’ll write sci-fi” or “there, fantasy.”

When stories start in my mind, they are what they are. I think Arq could be classified as sci-fi, even though it doesn’t seem so now. A lot of people have already told me that Capricorne was fantasy. Maybe so, but fantasy comprises a lot of subjects, some of which I don’t care for, such as Tolkien and little forest people. Even though they belong to the fantasy genre, they’re certainly not mine! I don’t know if everything should be named or classified under a label. My stories certainly belong to a genre. Let’s say that I’m satisfied with fantasy, as long as I’m not limited by someone telling me that I shouldn’t do this because it’s not fantasy—as long as I can do what I like.

TJKC: You’ve said that Galactus was one of your favorite characters. Why? ANDRÉAS: Because it is an attempt to create a non-human character with no human values or morality. He is totally amoral, anyway! He is only what he is. I think that he is very interesting as a character because it is so difficult to do.

When you create a character, you necessarily let a small piece of you inside, with some of your values. It is very interesting to create a character whose only value is to survive, a character who knows he is only a wheel in the mechanism of the universe, that doesn’t try to be more or less. It’s really hard to do. After Kirby, others haven’t succeeded—the way he had, anyway.

Detail from Cyrrus, from

TJKC: Fate seems to be very important for a David Lynch photo. © Humanoïdes Associés. your characters. Do you give them a free will?

ANDRÉAS: No. Anyway, those are characters; they’re not free to act as they wish. I take the liberty of following an idea anytime I want even though it may change the story fundamentally.

I won’t say characters can write their own stories. “The author as a victim of his characters” is a myth for me. I think the more you tell their stories, the more they’re filled with possibilities, without necessarily becoming alive. Their possibilities increase with each book, so you can do more and more with them. This is a series’ major interest for me: This power to build on what was previously created, to have the characters experience events they didn’t expect. I shouldn’t say that; you’d think I give them a life of their own! Let’s say that I have them live things I didn’t expect right at the start, that I couldn’t foresee, but that became possible with time. When you start with a character and a story, you’ve got a limited supply of ideas. Once you work on the subject, their number increases. You find ideas building on one another.

The possibilities multiply more and more. The more you progress, the more there are. Therefore, Fate is the line that I force myself to follow to stay logical with what I previously did.

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TJKC: So chance exists in your stories.

ANDRÉAS: Yes, of course.

series it’s not the case anymore. I create as I progress. When I draw New York, that’s not New York. There are no corresponding photographs.

Setting my stories in the past is not nostalgic. For me, it’s not simpler— that would be too strong a word—but this is a chance to simply imagine.

That’s the reason why the action takes place in the USA. I’ve never gone there. I can imagine what I want, in fact.

TJKC: You built a coherent universe along the Rork, Raffington Event, and Capricorne series. Is it a kind of recollection of the Marvel or DC universes?

ANDRÉAS: Maybe indirectly. Let’s say that those series came from each other in a way, but all came from Rork. To tell the truth, the idea of those characters from a series that made it to their own titles certainly came from there. But I won’t try to incorporate in this universe all the things I’ve done, every album. This duty to continuity is the major flaw of the Marvel universe.

TJKC: Would you like to work for the comic book industry?

ANDRÉAS: The only character that I’d be interested in is Batman.

That’s the only one but I don’t think I will take the necessary steps and approach the editor myself. I wouldn’t do any other title or any other kind of work, inking or anything else.

TJKC: A kind of religiosity?

ANDRÉAS: That’s right! Some fans are always complaining “You do this here but you did the contrary somewhere else.” I don’t want to be too coherent anyway.

TJKC: A word to the wise is enough! (laughs)★

TJKC: You usually work on long stories. Why? ANDRÉAS: The Rork series was limited to seven graphic novels, from the third book on anyway.

I had the time then to let it come to maturity, as I was working on other subjects between its different parts. Now I’m dutybound to produce at least a book per year per series! I’d never worked a series on a long range before, with this obligation to feed it. In the Capricorne series I try to consciously do what I did unconsciously with Rork. Someone reading now the tenth Capricorne book couldn’t understand anything with the changes, the evolution that I intend to give the series. In fact, I’ll try to have the series growing up with the reader. I don’t want the series to be just a time in my reader’s life. I want him to follow on a long run basis. On the contrary, Arq is a long story but with no possible changes.

TJKC: Most of your stories take place in the past. Do you feel nostalgic?

ANDRÉAS: No, not at all. There are things that I don’t like drawing, so it suits me that way! (laughs) For me, the past is a little bit like the future. You can imagine anything with the future. I can do that with the past as well. In fact, I give myself freedom to tell my stories in the past. The city of New York in Capricorne is completely different from the real thing. I don’t work with documents anymore, except for famous monuments like the Statue of Liberty, etc. I was representing a relatively authentic New York in Rork, but in the Capricorne

A breathtaking example of Andréas’ linework from the 1994 Cromwell Stone graphic novel. © Lombard.

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Kirby Swipes Submitted by Jean Depelley t’s been documented that Kirby had occasion to swipe from his artistic idols, particularly comic strip artists Hal Foster and Alex Raymond. Below are two more examples recently discovered by French Kirby fan Jean Depelley. Perhaps “swipe” is too harsh a word; “adaptation” might be more appropriate, as Kirby tended to incorporate only the most basic compositional elements, and then evolve the work to make it his own. But the influence from these source panels is hard to deny. Enjoy!★

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© King Feat ures

(above) Compare this panel from Captain America Comics #8 (Nov. 1941) to the classic illustration from the 3/19/38 Prince Valiant Sunday page. Joe Simon has said he did layouts for Kirby at times, so it remains to be seen if the swiping came from Simon or Kirby (but Kirby was a big fan of Hal Foster’s work, and this Sunday was done the same year as the story where Prince Valiant wore the “goosemask” that inspired Kirby’s 1970s Demon design). (below) This cover to Boy Commandos #23 bears a strong resemblance to panels in the 6/7/36 and 6/28/36 Flash Gordon Sunday pages.

© King Features

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John Kricfalusi on Kirby

© Nickelodeon.

Interviewed by Chris Twomey (At first glance Jack Kirby and Ren & Stimpy creator John Kricfalusi may not seem to have much in common, but both artists have been major stylistic influences in their respective fields, and both had control of their most famous creations taken away from them.

The Kirby influence in Kricfalusi’s work may not be too obvious either, but like any kid of the 1960s who read a comic on a Summer’s day, John was bound to be electrified by Kirby’s archetypal super-hero books at the magazine stand or on television. For as crude as the Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon was, the power of Kirby’s dynamic art taken from the adventures of Thor, The Hulk, or Captain America’s conflict with the Red Skull’s Sleepers, could not but capture the imagination of a generation. Even today Kirby’s legacy can still be seen in super-hero animation, merging with Kricfalusi’s retro look in the recent Hercules and Xena’s The Battle For Mount Olympus animated movie.

I interviewed fellow Canadian John Kricfalusi twice in 1993 as Ren & Stimpy swept our nation, a year after he was fired from the show. Still he animatedly told me about his influences from TV, film, cartoons, and of course, comics. John was a Kirby and Marvel fan, and hinted at his super-hero homage to come, the Ripping Friends. These costumed, over-muscled, yet super-powerless “heroes” will be appearing as part of the Fall Fox Kids lineup on the Fox Network. Kricfalusi’s super-hero satire will be more like Not Brand Echh than New Gods, but Happy-happy, joy-joy; it’s Ren & Stimpy! will be remembering Jack through a love of characters (Stimpy’s the one on the left.) and futuristic technology.)

JOHN KRICFALUSI: When I was a little kid I loved all the funny animal comics. I loved Harvey Comics with Casper The Friendly Ghost and all that stuff—the Hanna-Barbera comics, the Disney comics, the Warner Brothers comics—but in junior high I got addicted to Marvel comics, particularly the Jack Kirby stuff. I loved Fantastic Four. Kirby was an absolutely great storyteller. I don’t mean that the stories were deep or even intelligent. (laughs) It was just that if there was a scene that was supposed to be set, he staged it beautifully. He staged it like a film director. You really felt it. You believed it. If he did a scene of horseplay, like when The Thing and the Human Torch would get into their little fights, it was played with great comedy. He could do any emotion. I mean, the guy pioneered all these genres in comics too: The romance comics, which he staged totally differently than the super-hero stuff, which he staged totally differently than the monster stuff. I’ve never seen a more versatile comic artist in the whole history of comics— and within the same comic he would play different emotions, just by staging them. Forget what the story was.

If you just analyzed the story without the picture, the logic of the stories and everything was ridiculous—just completely stupid. The stories would never make it in novels. They are stupid. I’m just talking about the storytelling which is a different thing than the story writing. Kirby was very dramatic.

© John Kricfalusi & Spumco, Inc.

A drawing of Kricfalusi’s latest creation, the Ripping Friends, which has just been added to the Fox Kids TV lineup.

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Kirby character sheet of Mr. Mxyzptlk for the Super Friends animated series.

TJKC: Did you like Thor?

KRICFALUSI: No. I never liked Thor because I hated the inking.

I loved the drawings but the inking was so crude it just made it hard for me to read them.

TJKC: There was great panels in Thor.

KRICFALUSI: Oh yeah, there was some great drawings in it, but I always thought the inking really butchered it; but I’d read the Fantastic Four which had Joe Sinnott inking them and I thought he was great on Kirby. To me a comic book’s got to look great before I’ll read it. It always makes me really mad when people introduce themselves to me as, “Hey, I write comic books. I’m a comic book writer.” What the hell kind of a...? Get a real job. What do you mean you’re a comic book writer? What it means is that you don’t draw well enough to draw comic books—because that’s what you read comic books for, for the drawings. It’s a weird concept—

comic book writer. It’s not something you should brag about.

The main thing was that Kirby drew huge, muscular, cool-looking super-heroes. That had really cool powers and looked really dynamic. The number one thing about Kirby was that he was dynamic. Everything was ten times stronger and bigger than anybody else’s stuff. Then on top of that he was just really good. He’s a really skilled artist, even beyond his caricature. I’ve seen some of his early drawings, just sketches from the War and stuff—from the battle front. They are just really good anatomy, good perspective, good solid drawing to begin with; but then he didn’t stick to that. He turned to making his own statement.

DC. Then the super-hero comics started to get really serious and that was the death of them for me. I’m sorry. but I cannot take guys who run around in their underwear seriously. At least when Stan Lee was doing it, he wrote jokes in them. They had cameos of he and Kirby in them, and they didn’t take themselves seriously. They knew it was ridiculous.

They knew that the idea of super-heroes was completely ridiculous; but when I go into a comic book store today I am embarrassed. I see these super-serious covers—and everybody is always screaming in the comics, and they act as if this stuff can really happen. Like you can have these huge, muscular, tiny-headed vigilantes running around in long underwear. How the hell can you take that seriously? And yet all the comic artists today, and the writers and the fans, they think this stuff is real or something. I can’t go along with that. Give me Jack Kirby’s caricatures any day. Do you remember Not Brand Ecch comics in the ’60s? They were Mad comics put out by Marvel that made fun of their own work. They made fun of all the super-heroes—DC super-heroes and Charlton super-heroes and Marvel super-heroes—and Kirby must have done a couple stories. He did a take-off on the Fantastic Four’s epic story with the Silver Surfer; and that is what I liked about the guy—he made fun of himself. He didn’t take himself seriously; and he drew great cartoony drawings of all the super-heroes—it was really nice. I’ve still got that.

Powdered Toast Man in Ren & Stimpy was poking fun at the idea of

TJKC: You hinted that he established the clichés of the super-hero genre, which is all male and power-oriented. How do you see it looking back with ’90s politically-correct eyes?

KRICFALUSI: Actually, if you look at Fantastic Four, it was one of the first ones to also portray a woman’s point of view. They had really strong characters like Sue Storm, Ben Grimm’s blind girlfriend Alicia, and Johnny Storm’s girlfriend Crystal. I was in love with her. They did a lot of stories from the women’s point of view. Of course it was a man doing stories from a woman’s point of view. So it was the best you could do until women started drawing the comics. I guess [the comic strip] Cathy is all we’ve got.

TJKC: What about the aspect of violence being presented as entertainment for boys?

KRICFALUSI: I wouldn’t call it violent.

There was never any blood in it; never any bones sticking through flesh like you see in comics nowadays—which to me is just there totally for shock value, because they can’t draw well enough to get any real emotion out of you. You’ve got to use shock value to carry it. What they used to do with super-heroes wasn’t violent. Nobody took it seriously. They were like cartoons, they were caricatures. They’d beat the crap out of each other and stuff, then get up and walk away. It was fantasy, totally fantasy; so I wouldn’t even call it violence, especially compared to what comics are today. Now you can get away with anything in a comic book, except for good drawing—fifth-generation Neal Adams-imitators like John Byrne, who’s also Canadian; everybody copies John Byrne.

TJKC: When did you stop reading comic books?

KRICFALUSI: When Jack Kirby went to

© Ruby-Spears.

TJKC: So are your super-heroes going to be self-conscious in any of these ways?

KRICFALUSI: My super-heroes are funny first of all. You are not going to take them seriously, in the least. It totally makes fun of the whole concept of being a vigilante running around in your underwear. It’s gonna point out how stupid all that stuff really is. It’s going to be a big message to comic book fans: “Hey, let’s get f*cking real about this stuff.” Grow up. You’re a thirty-sixty-year-old man and you’re reading comic books and you’re taking them seriously. Stop it. People ask me all the time these days which comic books I read, which astounds me! And I have to tell them: “I’m a thirty-seven-year-old man; I’m sorry, but I don’t read comic books.”

Kirby character design for the villain Gemini (originally called Janus) from the Thundarr The Barbarian series.

39

super-heroes. The concept of a superhero is a guy who runs around in long underwear and takes the law into his own hands—and that’s supposed to be all-American! Yet the super-hero’s mission in life is to be anti-American; that is, to take the law into his own hands. So Powdered Toast Man was the day in the life of somebody who wears long underwear and takes the law into his own hands, and is judge and jury and policeman—and I took it all the way to the step “what if you had a guy like this in power in the White House?” So Powdered Toast Man goes so far as to throw the American Constitution and the Bill Of Rights into a fire—which wasn’t a political statement, it was a satirical statement about super-heroes.

It was to tell people: “Look, when you read a super-hero comic, remember how stupid it is,” because it is. I don’t care what artist or writer that you have in a super-hero comic. Every super-hero comic ever made is stupid, and if you take it that way, that’s fine; and if you write them with that in mind, that’s fine. All fantasies are stupid. Snow White & The Seven Dwarves is stupid. Take away good animation or good storytelling or good illustrations from it and just listen to the story and just pay attention to it—it’s really stupid. A teenage girl is in the forest living with seven crooked little gnarled old men, and she lets animals in the house who lick the plates clean. That’s really stupid! And only the animation could make you forget that.

TJKC: Did you ever meet Kirby?

KRICFALUSI: I met him at parties at Bob Clampett’s about ten, twelve years ago, and he would never want to talk about comics—it was hilarious. All he ever wanted to talk about was the War—his days in the War. It was so funny, because he was a real down-toearth guy, and he smoked a big cigar and talked like an Army sergeant— and he was a really nice guy. It was a weird combination, him being friends with Bob Clampett (who did classic Warner Brothers cartoons in the 1940s), because they were such opposites.

TJKC: Are you going to have any wild machines in your super-heroes show?

KRICFALUSI: Oh, of course, of course you’ve got to have that. The Ripping Friends don’t do anything without tons of machinery and stuff. To do the simplest things they gotta have huge, bulky machinery to make toast and stuff, (laughs) because they are very futuristic.

TJKC: But they don’t have super-powers.

KRICFALUSI: No, no, no.

Original, unaltered two-page spread for Dingbats of Danger Street #1, inked by Royer. When page counts were reduced at DC, this

spread was cut up and reduced to a single page in First Issue Special #6. Based on “The Gasser,” Kirby might’ve agreed with Kricfalusi about not taking super-heroes too seriously.

More Ripping Friends!

© John Kricfalusi & Spumco, Inc.

your waiting a week, but they did it after each commercial. When I was a kid I hated it, but now they are so bad they are genius: The best-worst cartoons ever made. The song was great, though! (sings) “Band of brothers, marching together, heads held high in all kinds of weather.” It went on and on; it was like a ten-minute song.

Bakshi was the best producer I ever worked with. He is a real cartoonist—and he loves cartoons; not just animated cartoons but strip cartoons and.... He turned me on to old cartoonists—turn-of-the-century cartoonists—a guy named Sullivant, who was really brilliant. A guy that Disney completely ripped off and never gave him credit, which I never knew about until I saw his drawings. That whole animal style that they do—the more modern animal style, the really constructed animal style like you see in 101 Dalmations or Jungle Book or Lambert The Sheepish Lion—all came from this guy, Sullivant. He was around in the teens and the ’20s. He was an incredible artist.★

Thanks to www.Spumco.com.

(Chris Twomey is an entertainment journalist in Toronto, Canada. Visit his music interview and review archive at http://interlog.com/~costan/MNN.html.)

TJKC: Just costumes.

KRICFALUSI: Yeah, they have costumes. They want to show off their meat. That’s what those costumes are for! Because they just wanna see muscles, that’s all.

TJKC: You worked for Ralph Bakshi on Mighty Mouse: The New Adventures. He did the original Spider-Man cartoon.

KRICFALUSI: Do you know that Ralph Bakshi directed a bunch of Rocket Robinhood? He’s embarrassed about that, too. I keep reminding him every chance I get. I remember he jumped out of his chair one day when I brought up Rocket Robinhood. “How do you know about that?!” he said as he closed the door really fast.

“What do you know about Rocket Robinhood?”

That was only shown here in Canada. His name is in the credits, but it was only seen in Canada. Nobody in the States knew anything about it. He hoped for years to live that down but I won’t let him. That’s a classic. That’s the most clever time-waster ever! At least 80% of it is reused footage. They show you about thirty seconds of new footage and then they go into a recap of it: “What you saw ten seconds ago went kind of like this,” and they’d replay all the scenes you just saw. They were using the Kirby could hold his own with broad humor, as evidenced by this page from Crazy, Man, Crazy Vol. 2, #2 (June 1956). old movie serial format, which depends on 42

© 1956 Charlton Comics.

TJKC: How many billions of years in the future are they?

KRICFALUSI: They live today, but they can go through time—which gives them an excuse to wear all kinds of really cool costumes. They actually live a little bit in the future—they live next Tuesday. That’s officially where they are.

They are a week ahead of us. I had a sciencefiction series which I developed about ten years ago called Brick Blast-Off Of The Outback, and he lives hundreds of billions of years in the future; long after every one of us is dead, he will be protecting our rights and our freedoms— protecting our right to be dead.

may not have seen a sharp edge. He absorbed the popular culture by osmosis, like a tree with wide-ranging roots. As a visual thinker, Jack’s art was most influenced by the visual media. I suspect that whenever he got writer’s block he simply let whatever film or TV show he had seen the night before flow straight down his arm and out of his pencil.

Jack falls into the same category as filmmaker Roger Corman. The appropriate term is not plagiarism but “exploitation.” Unlike Corman, who imitated other people’s films to exploit a popular trend at the box office, I believe that Jack was motivated by the pleasure he felt in translating images he saw on the big or small screen into the medium of which he was the unquestionable master. He got paid by the page, no matter what he put on each page. Generations of young comics fans paid mere dimes to stand on Jack’s shoulder and get a peek at his mind at work.

Sometimes this took the form of parody or satire, which the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled to be constitutionally-protected speech. (That’s how Mad magazine gets away with it.)

It is literally impossible to note all of the movie references which appear in Jack’s work. Virtually every book is steeped in the imagery of Hollywood.

I will elucidate with a few choice examples. Here are the rules:

The Kirby Version A look at Jack’s film and TV influences, by John P. Alexander hen I first became aware of the art of Jack Kirby at the age of nine, everything was new to me. If I saw an image in a Kirby comic, I assumed that it had originated there. With 20/20 hindsight I can now look back and point out Jack’s own sources of inspiration. No idea is ever truly “original,” for we all stand upon the shoulders of giants.

There is a thin line between homage and plagiarism and Kirby

W

1) In each case the suspected film or TV source must predate its appearance in a “Kirby Version.”

2) The source must have been accessible to Kirby at the time.

3) Vague or generic similarities are ignored.

I invite the reader to peruse the vast body of Jack’s work for other “Kirby Versions.” Film fans don’t have to look hard; they leap out at you.

Trivia: The earliest “Kirby Version” I have identified is a Boy Commandos story from 1942 which appropriated the plot of the Howard Hawk’s war film Air Force.

Example #1 (1967):

Kirby’s pencils for Thor #166, page 7. The look of the “Him” character was inspired by a race of beings called “Metrons” (hmm, that name sounds familiar) from the Star Trek episode “Arena” (see photo at right).

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At the height of the Silver Age grandeur of Kirby’s work at Marvel is embedded the origin of a god-like creature first known only as “Him” (FF #65-67). The storyline begins in FF #65, pg. 17-18, when the Thing’s girlfriend, the blind Alicia Masters, is taken in hand by a strange visitor who appears in her apartment, and the two disappear into a solid wall. At the other end of this spatial portal is a flat screen standing within a vast scientific complex known as the “Beehive.”

This imagery was co-opted from an Outer Limits episode called “The Boarderland.” Jack must have been a big fan of this 1963-65 TV series because he made a minor career out of incorporating Outer Limits material into his own stories. In “The Boarderland,” a scientific team penetrates a negative dimension where opposites

© Paramount.

“Him,” Fantastic Four #65-67

cancel out. This is exactly the same premise as Reed Richards’ “Negative Zone” which first appeared in FF #51.

Alicia has been kidnapped by a band of radical scientists who have faked their own deaths in “plane crashes,” etc., and sequestered themselves in a remote laboratory in order to create a new form of life. International cadres of “disappeared” scientists occur at least twice in film and TV. In the 1955 science-fiction film This Island Earth, the Metalunan genius Exeter (Jeff Morrow) recruits Earth scientists in this manner to aid in the defense of his home world.

In another 1963 Outer Limits episode, “The Architects of Fear,” a group of scientists conspire to unite the human race by staging a Roswell-like incident in which an ersatz alien from the planet “Theta” comes to threaten the Earth.

Robert Culp draws the short straw, his death is faked in a plane crash, and he is mutated into a “Thetan” monster.

The story ends when he is mortally wounded and drags himself before his wife, who recognizes him via an empathic link.

In the “Kirby Version,” the blind sculptress Alicia is given the task of sculpting the likeness of “Him,” who is too radiant to look upon, so that the scientists can know what it is they have created. “Him” is a variation on the shopworn Beauty and the Beast scenario. As Alicia had seen the good in the Thing with her heart, she perceives the nobility within the cocooned monster “Him” (FF #67, pg.

10). This scene is almost identical to the climax of “The Architects of Fear.”

The “Him” story ends when Reed Richards duplicates the “micro-units” of the “space warper” and the FF penetrate the Beehive and rescue Alicia. To give due credit, Jack Kirby introduced a generation of comic book fans to the concept of the microchip a decade before they existed. As the scientists’ work becomes unglued, they decide to destroy their creation. One of them plunges a detonator that triggers an anti-gravity wave (FF #67, pg. 19). This scene is identical to the climax of the 1955 classic Forbidden Planet, when the reclusive scientist Dr. Moebius (Walter Pidgeon) directs Captain Adams (Leslie Nielsen) to throw a switch that sets off a chain reaction which blows Altair IV into its constituent quarks! The Beehive with its vast shafts and pneumatic subway cars is clearly patterned on the subterranean complex in Forbidden Planet that was built by an ancient alien race known as the “Krel,” who were certainly the inspiration for the ancient “Kree” race first mentioned in The “Village” that held the FF “prisoner” in FF #86. (next page) Doom assumes the Number Two seat.

FF #64. a luminous god-like alien who comes to Earth riding a beam of light.

“Him” morphs into the golden god, who reappears in Thor #165-166 An unscrupulous scientist captures this “Bifrost” being and steals his and is transformed into Warlock in 1972. “Him” uses his god-like powers source of cosmic power. Fans should recognize this as the plot of the to destroy the Beehive and escape (FF #67, pg. 20). “Him’s” final “Dr. Doom steals the Silver Surfer’s powers” epic (FF #57-60)! In short, pronouncement that humanity will not be ready for such a quantum like Kirby’s famous collages, the “Him” saga is a pastiche of unrelated leap for milparts that makes the final product apparently original. lennia is eerily similar to the Trivia: The empathic blind woman/monster premise appeared in a Star endings of Trek segment called “Is There In Truth No Beauty?” which aired a full year the Frederick after Kirby used the theme. It appears that the work of Gene Roddenberry Brown Star was no less derivative than was Kirby’s.

Trek episode “Arena,” that had aired a few months # earlier, and Kirby made many behind-the-scenes visits to Hollywood in his an Outer stories, but Captain America #106 has got to be the strangest of all.

Limits called Believe it or not, Cap #106 is a story about Communist infiltration in “The Bellero Hollywood, a subject more apropos for 1948 than 1968! It involves a Shield.” The Chairman Mao makes a cameo in Cap #106.

Red Chinese conspiracy to replace Steve Rogers with a duplicate. This later features 44

Example #2 (1968):

Reds in Hollywood! Captain America 106

is the plot of (you guessed it) a 1963 Outer Limits episode entitled “The Hundred Days of the Dragon.” In 1968, an actor portrayed Mao Tse Tung in the Gregory Peck spy-thriller The Chairman. In this issue Jack trumps Hollywood! Well-rendered portraits of both Mao Tse Tung and Cho En Lai appear on page 7, panel 1! This has got to be the most bizarre Kirby cameo ever.

Cap #106 contains a number of spy movie references including a Felix-Leiter-type SHIELD agent, who shows Steve Rogers a faked newsreel depicting Cap executing a P.O.W. This is the premise of the infamous “lost episode” of Mission: Impossible from 1966. That episode shows the Impossible Missions Force foiling a Commie plot to implicate American troops with a film of a fake Vietnam War atrocity. This episode is absent from most syndication packages because it presaged the 1968 Mi Lai Massacre so closely that it makes your skin crawl!

At the end of the story, a movie producer is confronted by a Communist assassin over his embezzlement of party funds in order to finance, of all things, a science-fiction movie! This scene is lifted straight out of the James Bond novel and 1967 film farce Casino Royale.

In this case, the condemned character is “Le Cipher,” who was portrayed by Orson Welles.

Trivia: A cameo of Albert Einstein appears in Captain America #109!

Example #3 (1969): The Prisoner, Fantastic Four #84-87

© ITC Entertainment.

In 1976 Jack Kirby finally produced an authorized version of a feature film. His 2001: A Space Odyssey book is an oddity so peculiar that it deserves separate treatment. It is not among Jack’s better work, and does not enhance the experience of the motion picture. It is ironic that his direct adaptation of a screenplay is not on par with the elaborate “Kirby Versions” which appeared in his own titles. Kirby’s attempt to translate Patrick McGoohan’s trailblazing TV series The Prisoner into comics form in the 1970s died on the vine. When I learned of the existence of this project, I scratched my head: Been there, done that!

Early in 1969, mere months after The Prisoner had completed its limited run on CBS, the “Kirby Version” appeared in the pages of Fantastic Four (#84-87). This tale was to be Kirby’s last, and arguably most bizarre Dr. Doom story. Kirby must have found the themes which recur in The Prisoner so compelling that the lid of his skull boiled over.

What came out was eighty pages of some of the most lavish artwork Kirby ever produced.

In FF #84, the FF are lured into the good Doctor’s tiny kingdom of Latveria and are overcome by knockout gas immediately upon “arrival” (pg. 14). Oh, how convenient! Why didn’t Victor figure that one out 79 issues earlier? The FF awake to find themselves in “The Village” full of marching bands and people with waxen smiles. Although they have lost their powers due to Doom’s psychological influence machine, the FF are free to go about in “The Village,” but they soon find they can not leave. Sound familiar? Much of FF #84 is a reprise of the opening titles of The Prisoner!

Doom sits in an egg-shaped command chair (FF #85, pg. 5, shown at right) in a nerve center surrounded by lackeys pushing buttons, a virtual copy of the set from The Prisoner. There is a subplot involving Doom’s super robots (read “Rovers”) running amok in “The Village,” but mostly, it’s four issues of Dr. Doom playing Number Two-style mind games on his reluctant house guests. Doom comes off more toys-in-theattic than venial. Like Number Two, he has an agenda all his own. When in FF #87 the FF finally thwart Doom’s schemes, what does he do? He invites them to dinner (pg. 14). The game had begun to bore him, and so, like “Fallout”—the final episode of The Prisoner—this story concludes with perhaps the strangest ending in comic book history. Doom just shows them the door!

Although Jack simply substituted the number four for Number Six, he did it effectively. After this opus, an authorized version of the actual Prisoner series seems somewhat redundant; why bother? To my eye, FF

#84-87 was the best of all of the “Kirby Versions” of any film or TV show to be found in his long career.

Trivia: The “King” is in famous company. In the 1980s, the rock group Iron Maiden released a track called “In the Village” which digitally samples the opening credits of The Prisoner.

Example #4 (1969): Gangsters in Space! Fantastic Four #90-93 The last great Kirby continued FF story was the four issues in which Ben Grimm is kidnapped by Skrull slavers and sold into a gladiatorial 45

© Paramount.

arena on an alien planet run by Chicago-like syndicates! Unlike the “Him” saga, whose inspirations I disentangled decades after the fact, I recognized the three second-season Star Trek episodes which Kirby had purloined even as these issues were coming off the press in 1969! The first two are “The Gamesters of Triskelion” and “Bread and Circuses.” Both episodes were silly excuses to put the cast of Star Trek onto the set of Spartacus. “Circuses” is one of Roddenberry’s many parallel-Earth episodes—one in which Rome never fell. In “Gamesters,” as in FF #90-93, species are kidnapped from different planets to compete for the pleasure of super-beings. The gangster planet is the principal theme of “A Piece of the Action,” where a humanoid population imitates a book on Chicago mobs left behind by an expedition from Earth. Kirby uses the alien abduction of a ’30s gangster “Machine-Gun Martin” (FF #91, pg. 11-12) to inspire his extraterrestrial mobsters.

(above) This scene from FF #93 was inspired by the Star Trek episode “A Piece of the Action,” featuring Kirk and Spock as gangsters. (below) FF #91 panel, showing Ben Grimm in a restraint collar reminiscent of the one Kirk wore in Star Trek’s “The Gamesters of Triskelion.”

© Paramount.

(right) Splash page pencils to FF #91.

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This Trek episode (an intentional comedy) must have been manna from heaven to Kirby. Jack was a huge fan of 1930s mob movies. Cameos of Jack Ellam, Elisha Cook Jr., Humphrey Bogart, and Edward G. Robinson appear in FF #90-93. A character based on Robinson appeared in Thor #141 in 1967 as the gangster “Slugger Sykes.”

Robinson appears again as the “Slave Keeper” in FF #91 (pg. 15, pl. 5). This character (“Napoleon G. Robberson”) fulfills the same role as that of Peter Ustinov in Spartacus. In fact, the scene that immediately follows (pg. 18-19) in which Ben Grimm confronts his alien rival Torgo, comes directly out of Spartacus, when Kirk Douglas meets the gladiator (Woody Strode) who would later fight him in the ring. The storyline ends with Torgo leading a Spartacus-style slave revolt (FF #93).

The Thing is restrained with a collar resembling those used in “Gamesters” (FF #91). The cudgels used

The combat arena weapons in FF #93 are similar to the ones used by Spock in the Star Trek episode “Amok Time.”

in his final fight with Torgo (FF #93, pg. 11-14) strongly resemble the distinctive weapons used in the Vulcan trial-by-combat in the Star Trek episode “Amok Time.” The FF finally come to the Thing’s rescue dressed as 1930s gangsters (the “Reed Richards Mob”). This was a sight gag employed by Kirk and Spock in “A Piece of the Action.” So irresistible was this anachronistic image to Kirby, that he used it yet again in New Gods #4, when Orion and his earthly allies dress-up as the “O’Ryan Gang” and infiltrate an Intergang hideout.

The gangster movie was a genre that Jack loved and he was drawn to it throughout his career like a moth to a bug zapper. His abortive In the Days of the Mob (1971) is a case in point. His final dalliance with it was in 1974 in Kamandi #19-20, which was based entirely on Michael Crichton’s robotic theme park movie Westworld released the same year. Instead of a Western town, he has Kamandi interact with cop and robber robots in “Chicago-Land.”

Trivia: The skrull saucers which appear in the collage in FF #91 (pg. 2) are actually lifeboats cut out of a Life magazine article on maritime safety!

© Paramount.

Creatures Features As Kirby’s career progressed, he drew more heavily on B-movie “creature features” which had been his mainstay in the 1950s for inspiration. These are the very substance of Kamandi and the Demon.

The entire Kamandi series is derivative of the Planet of the Apes films, replete with the wrecked Statue of Liberty and H-bomb-worshiping gorillas. He lifted the premise of the 1964 Outer Limits episode “Moonstone” for Kamandi #3, a story called “The Thing that Grew on the Moon.” Kamandi assumes the role of Faye Wray in the clutches of a King Kong-type giant gorilla in “The Monster Fetish” in Kamandi #7. In this tomfoolery, the flaxen-tressed, bare-chested youth is the 47

© Universal.

(above) Cover pencils to Demon #8, a Phantom of the Opera take-off. (below) Universal’s “Creature” vs. Kirby’s in FF #97.

© The respective copyright holder.

© Warner Bros.

“fetish” object of a bunch of gorillas. This is the plot of the 1931 movie Trader Horn in which a blonde girl Nina Trent (Edwina Booth) is the “fetish” object of a tribe of cannibals. This is about as close to “kinky” as Jack Kirby ever got.

The entire Demon series, like Mel Brooks’ Young Frankenstein, incorporates every horror film cliché imaginable, and is worthy of a separate and detailed review. One of the better “Kirby Versions” appearing in The Demon are issues #8-10, a weird amalgam of the Lon Chaney Sr. 1925 silent movie version of The Phantom of the Opera, the TV movie The Night Strangler, and the early Peter Lorrie talkie Mad Love (also inspired by the Greek myth of Pygmalion). Jason Blood’s friend Harry closely resembles Darren McGavin who starred in The Night Stalker, a TV movie, its sequel (The Night Strangler), and derivative series produced by Dark Shadows creator Dan Curtis. These ran concurrently with The Demon (1972-74).

Incredibly, the very design of the Demon Etrigan himself was copied in detail from a scare costume which appeared decades earlier in the Prince Valiant comic strip (Price Valiant used goose feet for ears). I suppose Kirby considered this to be fair game. What had been a Sunday page throwaway to Hal Foster became one of Kirby’s best original characters. Kirby gave to other artists as much as he took; after all, it was Kirby who first worked on the character which Steve Ditko was to immortalize as Spider-Man! FF #97 was a one-issue story called “Monster from the Lost Lagoon.” Its one point of departure from The Creature from the Black Lagoon is that Kirby’s water monster is an alien trying to protect his mate rather than a living fossil seeking a new one.

Universal didn’t have a case because Jack’s water creature did not sufficiently resemble their trademark monster to infringe on their vast merchandising franchise. A Creature from the Black Lagoon lookalike did appear in the “Origin (top left) Edward G. Robinson appears in FF #91. of Inhumans” strip in (top right) Errol Flynn as Robin Hood, the inspiration for Fandral from Thor (above).

Thor #150-152 in 1968. (left) Mogul from Thor #144 was based on actor Conrad Veidt’s character Jaffar from the Here, Triton interrupts 1940 film version of “The Thief of Baghdad.” the location shooting of a rubber Black Lagoon monster, and finds himself captured to substitute as the real thing. This film-within-a-story should be properly considered self-conscious homage.

The Inhumans, although individually original, were inspired as a family group by The Munsters which was in first run in the fall of 1965 when the Inhumans first appeared together in FF #45. A careful reading of that issue will draw out similarities which faded with time. In their first appearances, Triton is much more “blacklagoonish,” and Crystal assumes the same role as Marilyn, the “normal”-looking niece in The Munsters. This pixie Crystal resembles Elizabeth Montgomery (particularly the eyes) as she appeared in the early B&W episodes of Bewitched (1964-65). Samantha, a character who—like Crystal—made things happen out of nowhere, was herself based on another beautiful witch portrayed by Veronica Lake in the 1940s Thorne Smith classic I Married a Witch. The Munsters were, of course, Universal Studios’ own self-parody of their famous monster repertoire.

A homage to Frankenstein appears in The Forever People #9 (1971) in which a manmade monster staggers past a theater marquee advertising a Frankenstein film festival. The two-issue satire in Jimmy Olsen (#142-143) that appeared in 1972 is a camp tribute to Universal’s trademark stable of monsters. In this story, an artificial planet inhabited by intelligent nano-beings is created in a laboratory. Old monster movies are projected onto the cloud tops which inspire the inhabitants to become the creatures that they witness. If you think that the progenitor to this concept would be Kandor (Superman’s city in a bottle), you would be wrong. The situation was “borrowed” from “Wulf 359,” yet another Outer Limits episode from 1964. Kirby used this scenario as a springboard for further storytelling while “Wulf 359” doesn’t go much beyond its basic premise, and is itself derivative of “Surface Tension,” a science-fiction short story written by James Blish in the 1950s.

Vincent Price appears as Victor Volcanum in Jimmy Olsen #147-148, a role inspired by the Roger Corman film Master of the World (1960), a fusion of two novels by Jules Verne. Kirby was inspired by a number of classics filtered 48

through the camera’s lens. Spawn (New Gods #5-6) is Moby Dick, Quasimodo (FF Annual #5, 1966) is the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Dr. Maas from Spirit World (1971) and Weird Mystery #1-2 (1972) is based on the parapsychologist in the Robert Wise film The Haunting.

of Hollywood’s Golden Age through this homage which contains some of Kirby’s best work.

Several of Kirby’s “heroes of color” were inspired by actors. The Black Panther (FF #52-54, 1966) appears to be modeled on both Sidney Poitier and Paul Robeson, who also appeared as a modern African ruler of a tribal society in the stage and film versions of The Emperor Jones. Mr. Miracle’s apprentice Shilo Norman (MM #15-18, 1973) bears an uncanny resemblance to Australian Aborigine actor David Gompalil, who first appeared in Peter Weir’s film Walkabout in 1972. Flippa Dippa, the only unique addition to the younger Newsboy Legion in Jimmy Olsen was entirely based on Cleavon Little of Blazing Saddles!. Little appeared in a Broadway play hopping around stage in a wetsuit replete with flippers and scuba tank. A photo feature of this appeared in Life Magazine in 1970.

Trivia: Klarion the Witchboy, who first appeared in Demon #7, sports the same black, horned hairdo as Samantha’s evil cousin in Bewitched.

Famous Faces “Casting” famous people in comics (excluding Mad parodies) has become popular in graphic novels like Dave Stevens’ The Rocketeer and Alex Ross’ Marvels. Kirby was decades ahead of his time. Thor’s buddies from “Tales of Asgard” are a Hollywood casting call. Fandral is Errol Flynn. Volstagg is Orson Welles’ Falstaff from his film Chimes at Midnight.

Balder was introduced as a stock Kirby Prince Valiant-type in 1965. After Camelot appeared in 1967, Balder takes on all the lovesick puppy appeal of renowned actor Franco Nero who played Lancelot. The “Tales of Asgard” story which ran in Thor #136-145 is, in part, a composite of the 1924 and 1940 film versions of The Thief of Baghdad. Mogul the Sorcerer is modeled on Conrad Veidt and Alibar the Vagabond is the legendary Douglas Fairbanks Sr. A generation of comics fans got a vicarious glimpse

Trivia: The manifestation of comedian Don Rickles in Jimmy Olsen #139 & #141 was an extended inside joke between two personal friends.

Father of Star Wars I conclude this exposition with the observation that George Lucas, the creator of the multi-BILLION dollar Star Wars industry freely copied from Kirby. All that “Joseph Campbell The Power of Myth” B.S. is a snobbery smokescreen. I firmly believe that the father/son plot twist involving Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker was based on Darkseid and Orion from The New Gods. Darth Vader, with his mutilated face and body armor, is so blatantly a copy of Dr. Doom that Lucas must have been an avid Kirby reader. Harlan Ellison successfully sued director James Cameron for a credit line in The Terminator over the appropriation of elements from his short stories including his 1964 Outer Limits episode “Soldier (from the Future).”

On this precedent, I believe that Star Wars should acknowledge its debt to the works of Jack Kirby!★ (above) Dr. Doom from FF #86. Was he the inspiration for Darth Vader (right) in Star Wars? (top right) A look behind Doom’s mask. © Lucasfilm Ltd.

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An ALL-NEW 68-page comic book-size extravaganza— with a new full-color BRUCE TIMM cover—focusing on the great DC Comics of the ’70s, from MARK EVANIER & STEVE SHERMAN on JACK KIRBY’s Fourth World, to ALEX TOTH on his mystery work—from NEAL ADAMS on Superman vs. Muhammad Ali, to RUSS HEATH on Sgt. Rock, plus a BERNIE WRIGHTSON portfolio (with BRUCE JONES appreciation) & more! A must-have for any comics fan looking for “The Good Stuff”!!!

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Compiling the first three SOLD-OUT issues of COMIC BOOK ARTIST (#1-3), TwoMorrows is proud to present the COMIC BOOK ARTIST COLLECTION Vol. 1 (224 pages, $21.95) featuring celebrations of the great Marvel and DC Comics creators of the 1970s! Including over 30 PAGES of NEW features and never-before-seen art by NEAL ADAMS, JACK KIRBY, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, JEFF JONES, and more! Plus a BONUS COLOR SECTION! If you missed the inaugural issues of our sensational magazine, now’s the time to catch up! Contents of our trade paperback also include these great features:

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• NEAL ADAMS — The Marvel Years, Unpublished DC Art, and Two Covers!

• BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH — Interview, Unpublished Art, & The Uncensored Conan!

• JACK KIRBY — Unseen pencil art and Vintage Interview on his Fourth World!

• STAN LEE — Interview by ROY THOMAS plus Personal Memorabilia!

OMAS KANE ROY TH STAN LEE GIL • GIL KANE — Cover and Interview, plus Unpublished Marvel and DC Artwork!

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BY BARRY WIN KIR K JAC S NEAL ADAM • CARMINE INFANTINO, JOE ORLANDO, JOE KUBERT, ARCHIE GOODWIN, & DICK GIORDANO Interviews! The Great DC Artist/Editors Tell All! • Plus — MIKE PLOOG! ROY THOMAS! STERANKO! JIM STARLIN! BILL EVERETT! SERGIO ARAGONÉS! MIKE SEKOWSKY! NICK CARDY! WALT SIMONSON! C.C. BECK! TOM PALMER! JIM APARO! JOHN ROMITA! ALEX TOTH! STEVE ENGLEHART! and even more! The TwoMorrows Age of Comics History is NOW!

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Mark Hamill

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: To start this discussion, I guess we need to know how familiar you are with comics, and particularly with Jack Kirby.

MARK HAMILL: I’ve been a fan of comics since I was a kid. Certainly anybody that had the interest I had in comics knew who Jack Kirby was. Later, I became much more aware of his plight, vis-a-vis getting his artwork back from Marvel Comics. Bill Mumy and Miguel Ferrer are two friends of mine who are both actors, but who I met through comic books rather than through acting. They were the ones that arranged to have this dinner where Jack and Roz were invited, and Jerry Siegel and his wife were there. Bob Kane was there and [his wife] Elizabeth.

When I was invited I said, “Sure, I’d love to come.” Just in terms of their importance to the industry, it’d be like having dinner with Max Fleischer and Walt Disney and Walter Lantz to the cartoon industry. They were titans, really.

TJKC: Where was that dinner held?

MARK: It was at Bill Mumy’s house in Laurel Canyon. I also went out to [Jack’s] house once in Thousand Oaks. [Jack] was a very self-effacing guy. You’d never know from his demeanor how important he really was. We were joking, and I said that when I first saw Darth Vader, I thought, “Oh, it’s Doctor Doom.” (laughter) He certainly didn’t say, “Oh, he took my ideas,” or any of that kind of stuff. He was content with who he was and his abilities.

TJKC: What was your impression of Jack when you met?

Interviewed Conducted by John Morrow

© Lucasfilm Ltd.

(The ever-versatile Mark Hamill is best known for playing Luke Skywalker in the original Star Wars movie trilogy, which contained more than a few similarities to some of Kirby’s comics. Recently, Mark has been in great demand as a voice-over artist for animation, most notably as the voice of the Joker on Warner Brothers’ Batman franchise.

He also wrote the Dark Horse Comics mini-series Black Pearl, which has been developed as a computer game by game manufacturer Access. This interview was conducted by phone on February 13, 1999. Our heartfelt thanks to Bruce Timm for facilitating this interview.)

(right) This scene of Doom feasting in FF #87 is reminiscent of one featuring Darth Vader (above) from the original Star Wars movie.

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fiction elements. If anything, the movies were such a pastiche; there were influences all over the place. Even though I never discussed Jack Kirby directly with George [Lucas]... from pirate movies to comic books to cowboy movies, people were telling me references all the time.

TJKC: Any other observations about Kirby?

MARK: One thing I think is kind of telling is, at that dinner Bob Kane got a kick out of mentioning to Bill Mumy that the Batman TV show sort of cleaned Lost In Space’s clock, and [he was] laughing very Penguinlike at that. (Mumy stood his ground. He said, “You know, Bob, Lost In Space was on the air BEFORE Batman, and Lost In Space was on the air AFTER Batman.”) But you’d never get that with Jack. Jack wasn’t there saying, “Well, I created this guy and this guy...”; Jack didn’t lord it over everybody. It was fun going to his house and seeing where he worked, and his workboard. I was very grateful for his hospitality; he was a really warm guy—and of course Roz was just a knockout.

TJKC: Did she offer you the usual milk and cookies? (laughter) MARK: Sure. Everybody knows what a great lady she was. They were the legendary couple, and like I say, at Bill’s dinner, he never seized the opportunity for it to turn into an ego-fest—and of course Jerry Siegel was very self-effacing, and very quiet, and not as bombastic as Bob was.

TJKC: So it sounds like you’re pretty familiar with Kirby. Did you grow up on his books?

MARK: I wasn’t really allowed to have comic books in my house. We could buy them for special occasions like long trips, but the network of friends I had was such that you’d trade books, or go to other people’s houses and read them. There were people that were real Marvel buffs, who thought I was kind of a weenie for reading DC and stuff. (laughter) I don’t know that I knew Jack Kirby back then, but you could just recognize the style.

TJKC: I guess that’s indicative of the amount of credit they got over the years. The one who wouldn’t hesitate to speak out got the better deal.

MARK: I guess. It certainly was a contrast. Here you had Bob Kane’s logo on everything he ever did, and they didn’t make their deals that far apart. It surprised me in many ways.

TJKC: How did you get into doing voice-overs for animation, particularly the Joker on the Batman animated series?

MARK: I sort of backed into it. I knew they were going to do 65 episodes, and I knew Batman. I figured, if their role model was the Fleischer Superman cartoons, this was the best opportunity yet to do stories closer to what’s in the comic books. With 65 episodes, they wouldn’t be trapped into what the movies and the TV show did, with a big guest star super-villain defeated at the end. I thought they’d be able to do the variety of stories they do in the comic books; from mysteries to love stories, to whatever. I hoped they’d do this really right.

Basically, I got an interview; I thought I was going to go pitch some stories and do some writing assignments. There was a mix-up; they said, “No, no, the writing assignments are all taken; we wondered if you were interested in doing a voice for us.” I said, “Sure.” They gave me a voice in “Heart of Ice,” which is the first Mr. Freeze episode. I played

TJKC: What part of the country did you grow up in?

MARK: My dad was in the Navy, so we moved every couple of years.

In fact, sometimes I think maybe that had something to do with why I read comic books. They were a common ground; they were a way to deal with your solitude, but at the same time, if you saw someone reading comic books in a new place, you had something to talk about.

That was a great common denominator.

TJKC: When did you start reading comics?

MARK: I started reading comic books in the Sixties. I was born in 1951, so I didn’t really start loving comics until 1961, ’62. I loved all those monsters Kirby used to draw. I loved the massiveness of the creatures. I didn’t really understand all the minutiae; I didn’t really study the comic book industry until I was in college, learning about the Kefauver Committee, and the Comics Code, and Dr. Wertham.

Photo by Roz Kirby, originally published in Ray Wyman’s The Art of Jack Kirby.

© Lucasfilm Ltd.

MARK: One of the things that struck me about Jack was the similar temperament, and even the physical similarities between him and a filmmaker by the name of Samuel Fuller. Probably their backgrounds were similar: They’re both of a certain generation that fought World War II as teenagers; both were from New York, and both were really sort of “men’s men”—cigar-chomping, opinionated. When I say opinionated, it’s different than when I say he was self-effacing. He was like Sam in that way. They’d been through the eye of the storm at a very early age, and I think it shaped their outlook and the way they dealt with life; but he was fun and funny, and fun to be around. If anybody had the right to be angry or upset that he had not been fully recognized, or deserved his own artwork back, it was him—but it didn’t infuse his personality, if you know what I mean. He seemed to be somebody who was a lot more adjusted to it than even his supporters.

TJKC: So you were still reading comics in college?

MARK: That’s sort of where I rediscovered them. I liked all the underground artists, and going to used bookstores, I’d see books I recognized from when I was a kid. I started to really become aware of who these people were in the early Seventies, when I started collecting comic books. Before then, I wasn’t able to save all my books, so I didn’t have that many. I was one of seven kids, so there wasn’t a lot of leeway there; you get to a certain age, and they kind of shame you out of your comic books.

TJKC: In the early Seventies, Kirby went to DC. Did you pick up his Fourth World series? Were you aware of Darkseid and the New Gods?

MARK: Oh, definitely. By that time I definitely knew who he was, and I wanted to see what he would do. I didn’t follow them slavishly month after month, but I knew it was a big deal that he was going from Marvel to DC. TJKC: A lot of Kirby fans picked up on what they perceived as similarities between the Fourth World and Star Wars. Did you notice any of that?

MARK: Well, I made the Doctor Doom reference, and obviously you’re dealing in all those kinds of space opera elements, and science-

(top) Luke (Mark Hamill) confronts his father. (above) The titans gather at the fabled dinner party: (rear) Bill Mumy, (l to r) Jack Kirby, Jerry Siegel, Bob Kane, Miguel Ferrer, (front) Mark Hamill. (next page) Pencil page from New Gods reprint #6.

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Ferris Boyle, the guy who pushes him into the equipment and turns him into Mr. Freeze. I was really impressed with the script; I couldn’t believe how melancholy it was for a children’s cartoon. It was a fun voice; the guy was a real phony. He was outwardly a real philanthropist, but then you see that he’s not such a nice guy.

Having done that, I got a call a couple of months later to audition for the Joker. I thought it’d be fun, but I didn’t really think in terms of actually getting the job. Based on the one drawing I saw, I came up with whatever voice I came up with, and the laugh which they said was really crucial to my getting it. That opened the floodgates; that made such a splash, and the Joker’s such a high profile character, there was a certain amount of, “Let’s jump on the bandwagon and make Mark our villain.” (laughter) So I wound up doing Hobgoblin on Spider-Man, and Gargoyle on Incredible Hulk, and Dr. Jack on Phantom 2040—lots of villains. But it’s fun; it’s like being a radio actor. You don’t have to worry about your physical appearance being wrong for the part. I really love it.

TJKC: Last question; would you say Kirby has had an influence on you at all?

MARK: I think about him now. I do so many cartoon voice-overs, and I’m just very aware of the forefathers of all of this.

TJKC: Thanks for taking time to do this interview. Is there anything you’d like to add?

MARK: I only had very limited contact with [Jack]. I just feel lucky to have met him at all.★

Comparing Star Wars & The Fourth World

by John Morrow hile I don’t know anyone who believes George Lucas stole the entire concept of Star Wars from Kirby (after all, there are plenty of differences between the two), Lucas was an admitted comics fan, and there are some awfully big coincidences. Here’s a brief rundown of the main ones that come to mind:

W

• Kirby had a father/son conflict between the two main characters, Orion (the son) and Darkseid (the father, and also the villain of the series). Lucas had a father/son conflict between the two main characters, Luke (the son) and Darth Vader (the father).

• Kirby had an invisible, omniscient entity called the “Source” as the spiritual element that enlightened the New Gods. Lucas had a similar idea in the “Force.”

• “Highfather” was the aged, wise leader of the New Gods, who guided Orion (the son), and was in contact with the “Source.” Lucas had Obi Wan Kenobi as the aged, spiritual mentor of Luke (the son), and he was in contact with the “Force.”

• Darkseid (pronounced “Dark-Side,” as in “the dark side of the moon,” which is where Jack got the name) and Darth Vader bear more than a passing resemblance, with their almost “Nazi Storm Trooper”-type helmets, and their personalities are very similar. Also, Darth Vader’s power comes from the “Dark Side” of the Force (a reference that threw Kirby fans for a loop!).

• The enormous round “Death Star” (with that circular crater in it) that Vader built to destroy the rebellion struck me as a hi-tech version of Darkseid’s planet Apokolips (which was always shown with one big, flaming crater-shaped “energy pit”).

Whether or not you agree these are more than superficial coincidences, it could also be argued Kirby was just as influenced by Star Wars, albeit in a somewhat backwards way. Kirby’s “conclusion” in the Hunger Dogs Graphic Novel was reportedly quite different than what he’d originally intended; could part of the reason be because Lucas’ beat him to it in Return of the Jedi? In interviews well before that film appeared, Jack said he felt that a father could never kill his son, so many assume Kirby planned it to play out somewhat like Lucas eventually did in Jedi. Lucas got to conclude his epic first, and Jack could hardly present a story later that made it look like he copied Lucas.

More’s the pity that Kirby never got to conclude his comics epic in the early 1970s. If he had, perhaps there’d be no question today as to who influenced whom.★

53

by Jean Depelley and Gérard Jean (The French artist Jean Giraud—alias Moebius—began his career in comics in 1956 with short western stories. In the early ’60s, he assisted none other than Joseph Gillain (a.k.a. Jijé), one of the prominent European masters, published in the Spirou weekly comic magazine, author of numerous big hits in the realistic or humorous vein (Jean Valhardi, Jerry Spring, Blondin et Cirage). In 1963, Giraud started one of the most beautiful western series ever made: Blueberry, in collaboration with the brilliant writer Jean-Michel Charlier (34 graphic novels published to date). In the late ’60s, Giraud, under the pen name Moebius, began a new career which proved to be more adult and provocative, in the satirical publication Hara-Kiri, and in Métal Hurlant in which his visual talents exploded the sci-fi boundaries.

Since that time, Moebius has done almost everything, either alone or with the writer Alexandro Jodorowsky (L’incal, Le Fou De La Sorbonne); portfolios, cartoons (Les Maîtres Du Temps), comic books (The Silver Surfer), and cinema (an aborted Dune project, designs for Alien, Le 5éme Element). In America, Dark Horse, Marvel, and Starwatcher Graphics publish Moebius’ work. This interview was conducted in French on January 30, 1999, during the 26th Festival of Angouleme (France) where Moebius was promoting his two new books: Coeur Couronné (Humanoïdes Associés) and his biography Moebius/Giraud, Histoire De Mon Double (Edition 1). We wish to thank Anne Caisson (Humanoïdes Associés), Jean-Marc Vovau and, of course, Moebius, for their time and kindness.)

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Let’s start with a question about Jijé whom you worked with at the beginning of your career. Jijé went to the USA between 1950 and 1953. A radical change occurred in his art and topics before and after this travel. His first production being mostly humorous in the Hergé manner, the later much more realistic, like the western Jerry Spring. Do you think your master may have been exposed to and influenced by the Boys’ Ranch series that was released at that time by Simon and Kirby?

MOEBIUS: No, Jijé was only interested in Milton Caniff [Moebius takes a rapid glance at the Boys’ Ranch reprint collection]. He thought that comic books were totally horrible! They were too savage and barbarous, with no respect for the holy rules of picture’s beauty. Oh no, Joseph Gillain was a real maniac! Had he seen the work Kirby had done at the end of his life—I think he may have seen it anyway—he’d probably have liked it—but he would have been severe. Kirby was young at that time, and that work was based upon quantity—not only a quantity of characters, but the artist’s as well. He had to produce 2-4 pages a day, and it is difficult to produce high standard quality in those conditions.

TJKC: In 1965, you left Blueberry to Jijé to go to the USA. Were you then exposed to Marvelmania?

MOEBIUS: Not really. I was not very interested in comic books at that time. As a matter of fact, I noticed some nice stuff then, but eventually got interested in comic books in the late Seventies, early Eighties, with the coming of Neal Adams, the artist of Deadman. [“Deadman” was published in France as a graphic novel in 1978.]

Neal Adams was a real revolution in comics. It is hard to imagine the impact he had in France. It was quite extraordinary!

(these pages) Kirby and Moebius Silver Surfer sketches.

TJKC: What about Kirby?

MOEBIUS: Unfortunately, Kirby was a bit underrated in France at that time. It took time, even for me, to understand what was grand in him. I think that he gave his best [later in] his career with those magisterial, hallucination-like, deep and visual creations about the New Gods. They were great, even the greatest! His art was so free, so furious, and so superb—but my own contact with American comic books occurred in 1988 with Stan Lee and the Surfer.

TJKC: Why did you work on this character?

MOEBIUS: I was an eager reader of the Surfer. I preferred the series John Buscema did, published in the French magazine Fantask. I used to read it spontaneously as you do with popular comics. I remember I 54

Photo by Jean Depelley. All Moebius drawings are © Moebius.

Moebius Interview

used to buy it in marketplaces at bargain prices, six issues packed per bagged sets.

TJKC: Could you describe the way you worked with Stan Lee? MOEBIUS: It was all the stranger to me as it was very far from French habits. I was given a rather light script, a treatment that I plotted as I liked, to have the proper size with the right number of pages and the proper mood that I felt for the story—and then Stan Lee wrote the dialogue.

TJKC: The famous so-called Marvel method; how would you characterize your approach to the Surfer compared to Kirby’s?

MOEBIUS: Well, my main goal was to stay afloat, to survive in this hopeless attempt to get close to American lyricism. I mean not only Kirby, but also other smaller masters around him. Even now there is so much vitality and so tremendous a strength in American comics that I can’t pretend to match it. Well, I tried to find my way, to play the game, keeping my European, French, and Moebiusian singularity all along. The result is a curious mixing, a bizarre product in which the Surfer is quite elegant, and a trifle distant.

Nevertheless, he is moving at the same time. Looking back to my 40 years of production, it is one of the series that I really like. It didn’t take a wrinkle for me!

TJKC: What about the New Gods series in the ’70s? Were you influenced by those space gods?

MOEBIUS: Yes indeed, they touched me. At that time, I was in a very symbolic trip, a concept about an extraterrestrial intelligence. Of course, it is not the reason why you should believe in extraterrestrial beings! Let’s say that in that peculiar disposition, you try to feel like a nonearthly being to see yourself better. You see? It’s an external kind of thought, a bit far-off, on human being, on humanity, on the Earth....

Of course, when you’re in that kind of mood, you’re more sensitive to any manifestation about this peculiar topic, whatever it is. It doesn’t matter whether it is conscious or not, elaborate, naive or very subtle. So when we saw this comic book series coming, we felt that Kirby was, up to a certain point, carried away in that cosmic blow, too. It was so lyrical. It had this kind of love, not only for our planet but also for our planet as a universal concept that went beyond national and racial visions. You don’t have to feel that way to question yourself about the people living that kind of experiment. What are their motives? Why such a grandiloquent rage?

TJKC: It may have something to do with Kirby’s Jewish origin.

MOEBIUS: That’s quite possible. Alexandro Jodorowsky is also in a kind of general trip with cosmic perceptions. This is literary, of course, just an external stylistic exercise, and a poetic vision. In real life, neither Alexandro nor Kirby had seen an E.T. walk down the street! I never saw them in any kind of frenzy.

They’re very rational people.

TJKC: Did you know Kirby personally?

MOEBIUS: I met him 3 or 4 years before he died. He was an extremely kind, discreet, modest, and brilliant man!

I’m afraid those were only superficial meetings in festivals—we never had the opportunity of really socializing—but there was reciprocal esteem. It was obvious that he knew my work and, of course, I knew his own. Unfortunately, we never talked about my Surfer book. In fact, I don’t know what he thought about it.★ 55

Kirby Collage Contest Answers

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Kirby Ninja Turtle drawing done for Kevin Eastman.

Kirby In Turtleland

by Gary Bisgaard irby lives on in “The Magic Crystal,” a 1990s children’s book based on a story

by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird, creators of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. “Kirby,” the artist in the story, is clearly a tribute to Jack. There is a physical resemblance to Jack, but more obvious is the similarity of “Kirby’s” creations to Jack’s. The insectoid-like creatures; the elaborate weaponry such as the “gravitic equalizer” and the robotlike tank; the doublepage splashes; the densely-populated battle scenes and the lush landscaping with suggestions of ancient Greek architecture; all are reminiscent of Jack’s work. And the speed at which “Kirby” could draw in this story was not far off the mark, either.

K

© Mirage Studios.

Here’s the key to last issue’s Kirby Collage Contest. Only two people were brave enough to enter: Michael Page of Libertyville, IL (with 190 correct) and Juan Bastarrica of Spain (with 152 correct), so Mike wins the free year’s sub to TJKC, and Juan gets a free copy of this issue. Congratulations, guys!

1) Silver Star 75) Black Bolt 147) unknown (unpublished 2) Space Phantom 76) Ariel Fighting American cover) 3) Ace Morgan 77) Thundarr 148) Captain Kip McCoy 4) Rocky Davis 78) Karnak 149) Captain America 5) Prof. Haley 79) Crystal 150) Darius Drumm 6) Red Ryan 80) Dino Manelli 151) The General 7) June Robbins 81) Adam Starr 152) Highfather 8) Esak 82) Medusa 153) Comet Feldmeyer 9) Metron 83) Gorgon 154) Lovable 10) Etrigan 84) Nick Fury Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. 155) Number One Son 11) unknown (SWofYD #5 cover) 85) Guy Fawkes 156) Jack Kirby 12) Liberty Lad Skip 86) Susan Storm 157) Charlie Chan 13) Liberty Lad Chuck 87) Link Thorne, The Flying Fool 158) Jane 14) Malibu Maniac 88) Kid Colt 159) John 15) The Wizard 89) The Vision 160) Jack Kirby 16) unknown (Cap #202 cover) 90) Boy Commando Tex 161) Big Bear 17) The Falcon 91) Cranby Doyle 162) Beautiful Dreamer 18) Uncle Giveaway 92) Hilt Read 163) Mark Moonrider 19) Brother Eye 93) Stuntman 164) Vykin The Black 20) Airboy 94) Two-Gun Kid 165) Serifan 21) Birdie 95) Blue Bolt 166) Lancelot Strong 22) Miss America 96) Mister Zero 167) Blue Diamond 23) Lightray 97) Commodore Sindbad 168) Captain Daring 24) Red Raven 98) Gadget 169) Sandman 25) Dr. Strange 99) Socko the Seadog 170) Mastermind 26) Ikaris 100) Reed Richards 171) The Toad 27) Scarlet Witch 101) Cyclone Burke 172) Tommy 28) Quicksilver 102) Wee Willie Weehawken 173) Gabby Jr. 29) Black Knight 103) Abdul Jones 174) Flipper Dipper 30) Radioactive Man 104) The Child 175) Scrapper Jr. 31) Baron Zemo 105) Probe 176) Big Words 32) Ka-Zar 106) Angel 177) Jimmy Olsen 33) Zabu 107) Wabash 178) Tomar 34) Rawhide Kid 108) Clay Duncan 179) The Guardian 35) The Mysterious Melter 109) Dandy 180) Magneto 36) Iron Man/Tony Stark 110) Happy Boy 181) Benjamin Grimm 37) Mercury 111) Egghead/Mr. Mind 182) Blastarr 38) unknown (Eternals #4 cover) 112) Captain Victory 183) Reb Ralston 39) Angel/Warren Worthington III 113) Jack Kirby 184) Odin 40) Johnny Storm 114) Dan Daring 185) Cyclops/Scott Summers 41) Captain Marvel 115) Sandra Sylvan 186) Ant-Man/Hank Pym 42) Captain 3-D 116) Jim Bowie 187) unknown (Gunsmoke 43) Devil Dinosaur 117) The Fly Western #77) 44) Daredevil 118) Linda 188) Darkseid 45) Karen Page 119) OMAC 189) Jack Kirby 46) Black Panther 120) Sandman/Wesley Dodds 190) unknown (Champ #23 cover) 47) Spider-Man 121) The Green Sorceress 191) Red Skull 48) Iron Man/Tony Stark 122) Gashouse 192) Baron Strucker 49) Giant-Man/Hank Pym 123) Lockjaw the Alligator 193) Hulk 50) The Wondrous Wasp 124) Smiley 194) Kamandi 51) Joe Simon 125) Brooklyn 195) Orion 52) Jack Kirby 126) Rip Carter 196) The Master (pulp illo) 53) Stan Lee 127) Alfy Twidgett 197) unknown (Kirby Unleashed 54) Iceman/Bobby Drake 128) Jan Haasen cover) 55) Comrade Baboon 129) Sarge 198) unknown (Rawhide Kid #37 56) Night Fighter 130) Gunner cover) 57) Red Ghost 131) Capt. Storm 199) unknown (Rawhide Kid #37 58) Professor Xavier 132) Johnny Cloud cover) 59) Marvel Girl/Jean Grey 133) Bucky Barnes 200) Sgt. Nick Fury 60) Gabe Jones 134) Sandy Hawkins 201) Cpl. Dum-Dum Dugan 61) Percy Pinkerton 135) Poison Ivan 202) Terry Dane 62) Dr. Doom 136) Hotsky Trotsky 203) The Black Owl 63) Thor 137) Captain Sam Sawyer 204) unknown (Eternals #4 cover) 64) Silver Surfer 138) Gin Seng 205) Triton 65) Prince Namor 139) Kanto 206) Ookla 66) Superman 140) Bullseye 207) Manhunter 67) Mummex The Living Mummy 141) unknown (Kirby 208) Yellow Claw 68) Destroyer Duck Unleashed ad) 209) Jack Kirby 69) Machine Man 142) Sky Masters 210) The Beast 70) unknown (Battle #65 cover) 143) Green Arrow 71) Izzy Cohen 144) Starman Zero BONUS ANSWER: 72) Kalibak 145) Fighting American André from the Boy Commandos 73) Big Barda 146) Speedboy is the Simon & Kirby character 74) Mister Miracle/Scott Free who’s missing from the collage!

“There was Kirby, busy drawing a picture of an insect. As Donatello watched in amazement, the drawing came alive and flew off the page and around the room!”

My Jack Kirby Story

by Tom Ziuko, TJKC cover colorist y Jack Kirby story began 30 years ago, when I was 9 years old. My family moved to a new part of town, where I met a young comic book collector who introduced me to my future. That is to say, the midSixties world of Marvel Comics—or more accurately, the imagination and genius of Jack Kirby.

At this point in time Jack was still drawing Fantastic Four, Avengers, and X-Men, and although I enjoyed other things like Steve Ditko’s Spider-Man, it was Kirby’s art that really grabbed me. So bold!

So dynamic! Even the sheer force of his linework was intense.

In those days of old, the credits listed the writer, the penciler, the inker, and the letterer, but not the colorist. To my nine-year-old mind it was obvious that the penciler drew the artwork, so I assumed the “inks” referred to the printed colors.

I wondered how Jack Kirby could make the lines of his drawings so thick and bold. I figured he must’ve used one of those big fat lead pencils that kindergarten kids are issued. I spent a long time drawing with one of those until I learned that the inker goes over the pencil drawings in India Ink and a colorist colors the artwork.

Cut to the mid-Eighties. By this time I’d followed my inspiration and was enjoying a career in comics as, ironically enough, a colorist. I’d worked on a number of projects for DC Comics and the occasional job for their Special Projects office. One of those assignments was a toy company presentation drawn by—you guessed it—Jack Kirby; and making an all-too-rare trip to New York City was Jack and his wife Roz. I had the honor of meeting the man himself and actually shook the hand that produced the thousands of images and stories that inspired millions around the world. I related the story of how I had grown up on Jack’s artwork and how this inspiration had led to a career in the comics industry.

Roz mentioned that they had heard the same story, or some slight variation, at least a dozen times that day alone.

Presented here are two drawings from that toy company presentation, and despite the fact that they were produced near the end of Jack’s career, I think you’d have to agree that they’re as powerfully dynamic and awe-inspiring as any work he ever created.

So thanks again, Jack, for not only my career, but for inspiring a lifelong love of the comics medium.★

M

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Hellboy © Mike Mignola.

Corpus Monstrum © Gary Gianni.

Talking Kirby With

Gary Gianni THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first “discover” Jack Kirby?

GARY GIANNI: Before I could even read.

I knew the owners of a little candy store (if I remember correctly, I was 5) and I sat at their fountain stand looking at Kirby’s monster comics—although I didn’t know who Kirby was, the art and subject matter appealed to me.

GEOF DARROW: When I was about 6, I saw a monster story by him in one of Marvel’s monster books; one of his “(Fill in the blank) Walks Amongst Us” tales.

TJKC: Did his storytelling and layouts impress you?

GIANNI: Yes. Visually I could follow the storyline without reading.

DARROW: I couldn’t even spell “storytelling” or “layout” until I was 17! It was his monsters and action that got me.

TJKC: What struck you about his work at the time?

DARROW: Monsters and action!

GIANNI: I loved his consecutive panel device. If a human unmasked and revealed the alien beneath, I was in my glory.

Gianni’s cover for the 1997 Hellboy Christmas Special. (right) A Darrow fan drawing.

TJKC: As time went by and you became a pro, did your conception of his work change?

GIANNI: What I understood intuitively as a kid, made sense intellectually as an adult.

DARROW: I became more aware of his mythic themes and storytelling genius. He stood out to me as what the French call an auteur, rather than just a cartoonist.

TJKC: Did you find a lot of “film” influence in his work?

DARROW: Yes, mostly during his Kamandi years. I was still oblivious to lots of his finesse, mostly blinded by the beauty of his monsters and action sequences.

GIANNI: It’s hard to respond to a question so obviously apparent, but maybe you’re playing Devil’s Advocate. I’ll just say this: If Kirby was a filmmaker in the ’30s and ’40s he’d have worked at Warner Brothers; in the ’50s with Ray Harryhausen. In the ’60s and ’70s—well, I guess he would own his own studio.

TJKC: What about his explosive approach to action?

GIANNI: Kirby’s figures move! That’s another thing that attracted me to him. There are certain artists whose figures have an animated quality: Frazetta, Williamson, N.C. Wyeth, and Ruben and Frans Hals if you look into Art History a bit.

DARROW: It has been his greatest influence on me. Not just the action, but the epic scale of it.

TJKC: Do you sometimes find yourself looking back at his work as reference for your own work?

GIANNI: After all I said in praise of the man, you might be surprised to hear that I don’t look at him for reference in my own work!

DARROW: I go back to Kirby for inspiration and enthusiasm. Jack’s work is an endless well of inspiration for me. He was no poseur; he truly loved comics.

TJKC: Do you feel you absorbed or adapted any of his style in your own?

DARROW: Unfortunately, no; except, I hope, sometimes in the scale of my action.

GIANNI: Nothing that might appear obvious. Anyway, it would take an objective party (as opposed to [GARY GIANNI’s moody art continues to lure new fans. A painter, an art teacher, a devoted family man... his work appears in Dark Horse publications and his second hardcover illustrated volume of Robert E. Howard tales will be published in 2000.

GEOF DARROW’s artistic odyssey took him to France, where he continues to produce strikingly individual images. His work appears in Dark Horse publications, and he was the visual designer for last Summer’s hit movie The Matrix.]

58

sh from Kirby spla res #1 (1961). tu n g Adve Amazin

myself ) to see if there is any of “the Kirby Spirit.”

TJKC: You’re part of a later generation of artists: Mignola, Ross, Darrow. Do you see any Kirby in their approach?

GIANNI: I know they all hold Kirby in as high esteem as I do.

TJKC: All of your styles are so different than Jack’s. How did you find anything there to relate to?

GIANNI: People are generally surprised to hear I’m such a big Kirby fan. Maybe my work is quite different than Jack’s (if I may be so bold as to refer to the Master with such familiarity), but the qualities he embodied—heroism, romanticism, adventure, and perhaps curiosity—these are the things I aspire to. Luckily there are artists like Kirby who have held the torch high and that shed the light for the rest of us to work by.★

© Geof Darrow.

TJKC: Do you have a personal favorite period of Jack’s career?

GIANNI: I’ll always have a soft spot for the monster stuff.

DARROW: Fantastic Four and his whole Marvel period. Also his New Gods really got me.

It’s hard to ignore or leave out any part of his great works!

your own art looks in published form. Do you think Jack did?

GIANNI: That’s comparing apples and oranges. Kirby never had the kind of time I do. I admire and also stand in awe of the amount that Jack Kirby turned out monthly.

& Geof

Darrow Thanks to Gary Gianni for spearheading this discussion in Fall 1999, and to R.J. Vitone for formulating questions.

TJKC: How about favorite inkers?

GIANNI: Ayers, Ditko, and in later years, Royer.

DARROW: Ayers, Sinnott, and Royer.

TJKC: Any favorite series or single story?

GIANNI: The first few Hulks in the early ’60s.

DARROW: Reed and Sue’s wedding; it was my introduction into the whole Marvel Universe.

The Doc Doom/Silver Surfer FF episode where Doom stole the Surfer’s board (FF #58-60). Wow! Fantastic Four!! ’Nuff said!

TJKC: Gary, do you think that Jack ever tried to go for the sheer “art” angle in his work?

GIANNI: I never knew Kirby so I can only offer an opinion from a guy in the grandstand. He took his work seriously, devoted his life to storytelling, and approached his art with passion and integrity.

Whether he was ever bitten by the “Fine Art Bug,” who knows?

TJKC: I know you sometimes obsess over how

Kirby cover pencils from Ghost Rider #22.

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“When Captain America Throws An Examination Of Jack Kirby’s Pioneering Portrayal Of Flying Disc Throwing And Self-Caught Flight Activities In Comic Book Art, by Clayton A. Moore he return of Steve Rogers as Captain America in Avengers #4 by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in March ’64 occurred just before Wham-O introduced the plastic flying disc called “Frisbee” in 1967. Frisbees were shown in early television commercials soaring through the air like UFOs as a pair of smiling children appeared to be tossing one back and forth to each other. Stamped on the bottom of each Frisbee was the legendary message:

T

“PLAY CATCH—INVENT GAMES. TO FLY FLIP AWAY BACKHANDED. FLAT FLIP FLIES STRAIGHT. TILTED FLIP CURVES—EXPERIMENT.” The first Flying Disc toy was made of plastic by Fred Morrison and Warren Francioni in 1948.

The Pro Model was patented by Ed Headrick, Vice-President and General Manager of Wham-O, dated December 26, 1967. The first International Frisbee Association Masters Qualification was held at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California on April 27, 1968. A variety of Flying Disc Sports have been developed and continue to reach an expanding group of participants and audiences ever since, including Disc Golf (a major sport that involves throwing specialized discs from a tee position over a course with a series of obstacles, to hit a specific object). How does any of this athletic activity involve the renowned comic book writer/artist Jack Kirby? He may have inspired or instinctively anticipated the primary skills and throwing techniques now commonly associated with Flying Disc Sports in his action sequences featuring Captain America and his famous flying shield.

I remember the first Marvel Comics animated cartoons by Gantway-Lawrence from the late 1960s. “When Captain America throws his mighty shield, all those who chose to oppose his shield must yield” was how the theme song began. The music accompanied animation of Cap throwing his shield, knocking down a group of villains with it, before it flew back to his hand!

Cap’s mighty shield made its debut in the Golden Age of Comics, in Captain America Comics #2 (April 1941). This issue marked the change from the original ‘pointed’ shield to the circular one he uses now. The shape of the shield was changed after a copyright dispute erupted over the Archie Publications character The Shield, which first appeared 14 months before Captain America. This innovation allowed Cap’s creators, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, to devise a series of different ways the round shield could be used in action. One major advantage was that Cap could throw it, allowing a defensive object to become an offensive weapon.

In the ’60s, Cap was given his own ten-page regular series in Tales Of Suspense, then finally received his own title in April 1968. Jack Kirby captured the imaginations of readers with spectacular displays of shield-slinging wonder. Cap disarmed opponents, rescued people, and conquered enemies utilizing powerful, accurate tosses of his indestructible Flying Disc. The mighty shield often made a series of rebounds upon impact, ricocheting like a complicated billiards shot before returning to his gloved hand.

The shield seemed to be more than a tool or a weapon, but actually an extension of Captain America’s very being. (This is also true of relationships between Thor and his hammer Mjolnir or the Silver Surfer and his board, for example.) In Avengers #6 (July 1964), it was revealed that Iron Man installed a set of magnetic propulsion and attraction devices to interact between Cap’s glove and the back of his shield, but this explanation didn’t endure very long. It was ultimately replaced by the prevailing (this page, top to bottom) notion that Cap controlled his shield through Pencil panels from Captain America #208, 205, and 207. pure physical skill and natural talent achieved (next page, top) Pencil detail from Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles. by his regular training and practice.

I became a regular practitioner of Flying (next page, bottom) Cover pencils from Captain America #196. Cap tries to recapture his stolen shield in the “Kill Derby,” a storyline inspired by the film Rollerball.

Disc Sports in 1983 following my graduation 60

His Mighty Shield...” from San Diego State University. I had always enjoyed playing catch with Frisbees, but occasionally suffered poor results as light plastic models would curve severely in the wind and go far off course.

I was determined to see if any measure of the ability so casually and effectively displayed by Jack Kirby’s Captain America was possible to achieve.

I was introduced to the UltraStarTM: A 175 gram SportDisc that’s durable and provides consistent stability in high wind conditions for accuracy and improved performance. This disc “goes where you throw it.” Through experimentation, I figured out a way to throw it almost directly into the wind with enough force that it would hover before floating back to Earth, giving me a chance to catch it before it could hit the ground. I have been able to enjoy many sessions of solo “boomerang-style” self-caught flight.

I have also been reading and collecting comic books for thirty years. While scanning the covers to several early issues of The Avengers which Jack had illustrated, I noticed how he had drawn Captain America holding his shield. I recognized how authentically and accurately the

character was demonstrating a proper technique for holding the Disc to be able to throw it—before such activities were commonly practiced.

At a preview showing of Ken Viola’s film Masters Of Comic Book Art in 1988 in Santa Monica, California, I had a brief chance to talk with Jack as we strolled from the theater to a nearby restaurant. I explained my interest in Flying Disc Sports and described some of the major events, commenting how well his illustrations had captured many of the key fundamental poses necessary to

perform these actions. Jack’s reply was that he always drew from life. What he showed was as real as he could make it.

Jack said he had no particular insight on Flying Discs. He had made no special research on the subject, treating it like any part of a story he was telling. He did not seem very impressed or surprised to learn how prophetic his depictions of the Flying Disc were, but was happy that I enjoyed them. The conversation moved on to other topics with other people from there.

I was even more impressed with Jack’s renderings of Captain America handling his shield upon learning that he had apparently made no special study as he composed and conceived them. With my experience in Flying Disc Sports, I have been able to recognize and more fully appreciate the unconscious realism of Jack’s visual instinct expressed through the poses and stunts Cap accomplishes with his shield. While allowing for artistic license, an observer must also understand that Cap’s shield is larger and probably heavier than most Flying Discs. (As a super-heroic character, Captain America is also larger and heavier than most mortal human beings!)

Many elements of Jack Kirby’s portrayal of Captain America in action using his shield as a Flying Disc are imaginative fantasy which would be difficult to perform in a realistic manner as they appear in the comic books.

However, the basic concepts involved of the shield “spinning” in flight, the type of grip employed, method of release demonstrated, and the curved direction the Disc travels in, all include legitimately correct elements. These authentic aspects of Flying Disc skills were intuitively developed by Jack, most likely without him physically practicing or witnessing them.

Jack essentially anticipated the more widespread use of these skills which have evolved since his stories were published, by people’s involvement with Flying Disc Sports.★ 61

Karl Kesel Interview Interviewed by Mark Coale

(Comics creators have been following in the footsteps of Jack Kirby for more than half a century. Whether it was in the 1940s with Captain America, the 1960s with Fantastic Four or the 1970s with New Gods, Kirby’s footsteps have always left big shoes to fill. Naturally, it wasn’t always easy to be the one to succeed the King on a book, especially on the ones that have legendary status (like FF or some of the Fourth World stuff ). Everyone can probably give his or her own best example of a creator who couldn’t match the work that came before.

A better place to look for success is not at those who followed Kirby, but where his material was picked up at a later date and reused. This could include concepts, characters, and even slogans created by the King. Since Kirby left such a large legacy, there are certainly plenty of examples to site of “revivals” or “resurrections” at Marvel and DC. Of course, it’s difficult to find parts of those two companies’ mythos that weren’t touched by Kirby during his various tenures at those places.

For this piece, we talked with the industry professional that in recent years has become well known for his love of and use of Kirby characters: Karl Kesel. In less than a decade, Kesel has brought back dozens of Kirby creations in books like Adventures of Superman, Guardians of Metropolis and Superboy.

In an interview conducted via e-mail over the course of a few days in October 1999, Kesel discussed his love of Kirby’s work and his using some of the more classic characters created by the King.)

(above) A Kes el (top) Kesel in solo job on the Newsboy ks on the Fem Legion, then and now. ale Furies.

62

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first begin to appreciate the Kirby characters?

KARL KESEL: When I picked up my first comics as a kid, I bought a Superman title, a Batman title, and Fantastic Four #68! Superman and Batman I already knew from television, but I have no idea why I picked up that FF! They were characters that meant nothing to me—but something about that book (as Jack might say) “grabbed” me. The first comic I started actively collecting was Silver Surfer, another Kirby creation. I quickly fell in love with the FF—especially “The Skrull Takes a Slave” storyline (FF #89-93).

There was just such a sense of wonder to the book! Every issue was, literally, a new world to explore! My real appreciation for Jack’s work didn’t fully come together until his Fourth World series. The vast scope of the work, the interconnectedness of the titles (without being repetitive—each had a completely different point of view and purpose), and the jumping back and forth in the narrative—I’d never seen anything like it!

TJKC: Has your appreciation of the characters changed from your first readings from then until now? Have your opinions of any characters changed since you had the opportunity to write them?

KESEL: Like the Warners cartoons, I see new and different things in Kirby’s characters now than I did as a kid. For instance, when I was young I never understood why Tommy was in the Newsboy Legion—he didn’t have any special “powers” (like intelligence, or fighting ability, or verbosity) like the others did. Only much later did I realize that Tommy was the figure readers could most easily identify with—he was normal, like me! But— and this is the masterstroke—he was the Newsboy’s leader! To me, the underlying message was that you didn’t have to be super-intelligent, or athletic, or gregarious; you still had an important role to play.

Kirby’s uninked pencils from Jimmy Olsen #139.

TJKC: Do you have a favorite Kirby character, either as a creator or from a personal aesthetic level? I noticed that you’ve used the Female Furies on a number of occasions and (along with wife Barbara) even created a new set of Furies when you wrote Hawk and Dove?

KESEL: The Furies are favorites, certainly—along with all of Apokolips.

Gotta love a planet of Evil Gods! But without a doubt my two favorite concepts are the Challengers of the Unknown, and Fantastic Four—by Kirby, or anyone else! I think that Challengers has an amazingly positive message at the core of its concept: That you don’t need any sort of

super-powers—that through determination and work and skill (and maybe a little luck), a normal person can overcome any obstacle! Superpowers? Who needs super-powers? And the FF is a family—who can’t relate to that? By the way, a lot’s been made of the similarities between the Challengers and the FF—and there are a lot of parallels, that’s true, but there is also a strong, defining difference between them. The Challengers are normal people who act like super-heroes, while the FF are super-heroes who act like normal people. Not to take anything away from Jack, but his heroes are almost always extremely heroic, so I think 63

that difference is a sure sign of Stan Lee’s influence on the FF. TJKC: Is the Forever People mini-series from 1988 the first “Kirby project” on which you worked (as the inker)?

I know you didn’t write or draw it, but I wanted to throw that in. That’s not counting things like FF or Cap, but things “distinctly Kirby.”

KESEL: To the best of my memory that’s right. I may have inked a few Who’s Who pages before that, but I’m not certain.

Paris Cullins, who penciled that Forever People mini, not only is a great talent, but has a ton of very interesting and exciting ideas on how to use Kirby characters and concepts himself. I remember some killer character sketches for a revived Challengers comic that he wanted to do (that never happened), and he once told me that he thought the Mobius Chair was in some way “alive”— which was why Kirby never drew it the same twice! It was constantly “rebuilding” itself!

TJKC: Is there a “revival” that you are most proud of, either because of how you thought the character came off or just that you were happy to see them “escape Limbo?”

KESEL: Kirby’s concepts are very solid and sound so, like a good play, there’s a lot of room for different interpretations of them. Some work, some don’t (my own included), but that never destroys the original idea, which anyone can go back to at any time. I guess I’m most proud of the return of the classic Challengers that Tom Grummett and I recently did in Superboy.

They’re a team that don’t need fixin’! I’m hoping I can do a lot more with the characters in the future. For some reason, I just feel I connect with the concept, and understand the characters. Of course, others might disagree.

TJKC: One “divulgence” that you’re responsible for that’s really intriguing comes from the revelation that Brooklyn from the Boy Commandos grew up to be Terrible Turpin. How exactly did that come about?

KESEL: I’m actually quite proud (in a trivial way) that I was geeky enough to connect the dots between them! It’s just an idea that came to me while I was inking George Perez on the History of the DC Universe. I tossed it John Byrne’s way, and he liked it and used it. It’s a nice little bit of continuity that helped unify Jack’s DC characters a bit more, but I really doubt it’ll make the list of most important comic book ideas of the century.

TJKC: Is it just me or are the guys from the Wild Lands (Gore, Growler and Howler) meant to evoke the Warriors Three (Hogun, Fandral and Volstagg) from Thor?

KESEL: It’s just you. Do you really think I’d take three of my favorite Thor characters and re-create them in a book I write, just so I can do what I want with them?

64

(above) Pencil detail from Kamandi #35. (lower left) Detail from OMAC. Kesel has combined aspects of both these Kirby series (and others) into Superboy, as shown at left and below.

TJKC: Have there been any roadblocks in your use of any characters in Superboy? I know when we did an interview a few years ago before your return to the title (in issue #50) that you were planning on using “all the Kirby characters that weren’t the Challengers or the New Gods.”

KESEL: DC is giving me all the rope I need to hang myself with in Superboy.

For better or worse, there’s not a long line of creators who want to play around with Kamandi, or Omac, or any other of Jack’s “second tier” DC characters. I know there’s a feeling at DC that Kirby characters don’t sell— but I can’t believe that, or Marvel Comics wouldn’t exist! Using Kirby characters in Superboy is no problem. My impression is things could get a lot rougher if I wanted to do, for example, a Guardian or OMAC comic.

Superman is secretly Clark Kent), but I can’t say it helped us do things we wanted to do in the book, but couldn’t before. Of course, now that Hypertime has been established, I’d love to strand a certain super-powered dog in the modern Superboy’s reality.

TJKC: Without giving too much away, is there anyone/anything left that you haven’t used yet that you’ve been aching to get to in Superboy?

KESEL: Tons! A lot of concepts from Kamandi, Kobra, Manhunter, Kirby’s Sandman, Atlas, and more. We’ve got years worth of material we haven’t touched in Superboy!★

TJKC: You really got to have your cake and eat it too when you did work on the Amalgam issues of Spider-Boy and Challengers of the Fantastic. Was that in a way “fanboy overload” since you could go hog wild on mixing in things from both the Challengers and the FF? KESEL: Indeed, a dream come true.

Spider-Boy was supposed to be a mix of Spider-Man and Superboy, which it was, but it was also very much (in my mind, at least) “What if Jack Kirby did SpiderMan?” The Challengers of the Fantastic was also great fun; it’s probably the closest Tom (Grummett) and I will ever get to working on the FF. Oddly enough, when the Amalgam comics were first thought of and creators divvied up the various characters, no one seemed very interested in the FF. That’s why they ended up as supporting players in the first Spider-Boy comic. Even more unbelievable, X-Patrol (which I co-wrote with my lovely and talented wife Barbara) was the very last Amalgam book to be assigned—and by then most of the major Marvel and DC characters had been snatched up— but no one had used Dr. Doom yet!

So we did!

TJKC: Has the “creation” of Hypertime had any effect on things you wanted to do in Superboy but couldn’t figure out how to do before? If I remember correctly, you were already going to do the Black Zero story before Grant Morrison and Mark Waid came up with the idea, but you got to be the first person to tinker with it due to the similar concepts.

KESEL: I did already have an idea to send Superboy to different Elseworlds, establishing that they were “real,” before I heard about Grant and Mark’s Hypertime.

Piggybacking my idea onto theirs made it bigger and better and more important than it ever would have been on its own.

The timing was just right. The Hypertime adventure opened certain doors (such as allowing Superboy to find out

Page 7 pencils from Jimmy Olsen #139.

65

One Man Art Class A personal recollection by Raymond Rehayem y college roommate dropped out of art school to complete his OMAC costume. He had been increasingly disenchanted with his formal education, and somehow the arrival of OMAC in our lives heralded the end. It was late 1991, and with Halloween fast approaching and yet another reason to neglect his dull assignments, my good friend Glenn took to the task at hand with unprecedented zeal.

A great Kirby fan already, I had only discovered OMAC a few weeks earlier, on a break from my surreal part-time job at Ralph’s Newsstand in DeKalb, Illinois. Leafing through the Jack Kirby box (a treasure trove and bargain, too) at the wonderful nearby Silver Smith comic shop, I encountered The World That Was Coming. Issues #1-5 and #8 were available and I brought them all home for TJKC reader Rob about eight dollars. I cannot overstate the joyous effect these comics had on my sensibiliSmentek recently sent ties. A similar reaction came from the guitarist in my rock band—Glenn’s fellow us a letter asking: Northern Illinois University art school drop out—who (like myself ) had already been “Ever consider an lifting Jack Kirby illustrations for flyers promoting our shows at assorted small-time article on Kirby art in clubs in and around Chicago. You can’t beat all the heavy Kirby linework and arresting tattooing?” If you composition when running off a cut-and-paste photocopy with a message. write it, we’ll consider My roommate’s reaction seemed to come right from Brother Eye; a great burst it, Rob! In the meanof energy with one focus: Be OMAC. The recent long-awaited acquisition of the misstime, here’s a couple of tattoo-crazy Kirby ing two issues in my OMAC collection has caused me to look back on this delightful fans who’ve immortalseries, and to look back on seeing OMAC come to life. ized Jack’s work on While Glenn was no Buddy Blank to begin with, the transformation that their skin: occurred when he became OMAC was astounding. The creation and presentation (above) Jeff Facchin of the OMAC costume became an all-involving art event. After months of sheer shows Jack his Demon boredom and frustration with his official coursework, Glenn tackled the OMAC tattoo. project with an excitement and enthusiasm I’d never seen. Inventor, space satel(below) Mark lite, and hero in one, Glenn brought OMAC to life, unleashing him on a totally Reznicek displays a unsuspecting and bewildered Halloween crowd. My band took a break during tattoo of Kirby’s our Halloween set at the happening. It was a popular bar that attracted a crowd Thunder God. drawn in by a flyer declaring (via Buddy Bank) “I just can’t win” or another depicting the “destruct room.” People were there to see some half-realized defeatist rock and a parade of strange get-ups. e. m The Halloween costume contest failed us— u st co C The OMA Glenn somehow came in second place—but OMAC didn’t fail us. After a sorry introduction from the emcee (“...and at number two we have... O-Man!”) OMAC stood onstage, with unknowing audience in awe: What kind of super-hero is that? Glenn made the costume on an irrelevant budget with an attention to detail and a surefire authenticity and accuracy besting any Hollywood comic book adaptation; his demeanor was cartoonishly imposing, his stance very convincing. The people were unprepared for what the whole presented. The One Man Army Corps was there and built for peace, from the stark stone-like mohawk to the chiselled plaster chest Glenn was sporting; rigid and sincere gold gloves and boots that brought Kirby’s wild vision at you with every swing or pose; an eye where you expected an explanation. Here was a fantasy world no one in that crowd had ever dreamed of.

Aren’t I missing much in this brief discussion of the short-lived comic? The factory of explosive pseudo-girls or the familiar frail innocent turning into an unequalled hero? The alternating ludicrous and perceptive glimpse of a world ahead? Of course, the usual wizardry was manifest in the gadgetry. Of course, the proper response to the Global Peace Agents and Doctor Skuba and Mister Big could only be “of course.”

Of course this was an amazing unresolved fantasy to match Kirby’s other DC work. It was even more alluring for being so fantastic and so unheard-of. Of course it floored us like so much of Kirby’s work. But what I’m telling you is that for one night OMAC entered our reality. We saw OMAC walk among us. We had found the freakiest wildest super-hero of all time, 20 years gone and with a mohawk before punk rock hit; an eye connecting him to an unlimited supply of surprises; a strange vocabulary mixing heroic hyperbole and outdated vernacular; a most absurd and amazingly illustrated dead-on attack at whatever is wrong tomorrow. Thanks to a disenchanted art student, OMAC appeared in the flesh, an on-the spot befuddling entertainment and a somewhat frightening proclamation. He had appeared just weeks earlier in the comic book shop Kirby box and, as he (Gee, I bet having all those thin Colletta ink lines departed November 1st sometime before dawn, he left behind not an art student, but an ex-art tattooed must’ve made his arm thor. Ouch!) student. It all makes sense in The World That’s Coming.★

M

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Mike Allred Interview Conducted by John Modica at the 1999 WonderCon in Oakland, California on April 17, 1999

©

d. lre Al e ik M

and I remember we went to this secondhand store that had stacks of used comics. With a grease pencil, they wrote “5¢” on each of them. They had FF #1 for a nickel—and we didn’t have a nickel! (laughter) We ran home, and by the time we got back, it was gone. To this day, my older brother kicks himself again and again for not asking the shop to hold onto it for him.

As far as reading and enjoying them growing up, for me it was always Dick Ayers or Joe Sinnott on inks. Of course, the Ayers stuff would have to have been reprints. They did it for me; I just didn’t know who they were until years later. My mission at this convention is to pick up as many of Kirby’s monster comics as possible, preferably in as ratty condition as possible so I can just devour them, and have them with me all the time.

It’s funny; as a kid, you don’t get it. You don’t realize just how great it is until later, when you’re doing it yourself, with hindsight, and just relating it to other work. The work Jack Kirby did was phenomenal. As a kid, I loved when the Fantastic Four ran into the Inhumans.

Black Bolt looked so cool, and that he never said anything was so intense.

(Mike Allred burst upon the comics scene in 1992 with his character Madman, and in relatively few issues, became one of the shining lights of the current comics scene. Aided by the inspired coloring of his wife Laura, he delivered a much-needed spark of fun and creativity with his Madman series, and is currently launching his own comics line, AAA Pop, featuring his new book The Atomics. Mike was kind enough to offer to ink a cover for TJKC, specifically requesting something featuring the Fantastic Four. The result is this issue’s wraparound cover, featuring color by Laura. Our thanks to both of them for their exceptional work, and for taking time out for this interview.)

(top left) “It! Girl” from Mike’s new series The Atomics.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: Very simply; how did Jack Kirby influence you?

MIKE ALLRED: Well, it’s not simple. In retrospect, I realize he’s been with me my whole life.

When I was a kid, my dad always bought my big brother Lee and me comics, and my brother had amazing taste. If we were at a drug store or on a family trip, I tended to buy Hot Stuff or some Harvey thing, and my older brother would always buy really great stuff, which I found out years later would be Jack Kirby comics, and I eventually gravitated to my big brother’s far superior tastes. So I became a big Fantastic Four fan when I was a kid, and to this day it’s probably my favorite series of all time—the work that Jack did.

TJKC: Do you recall a specific issue?

MIKE: Yeah, I definitely remember a later Inhumans issue, #82 I think.

Pretty sure that was my first exposure to Kirby and the FF. Love that cover! But I also remember one tragic event. My older brother was probably about twelve at the time, 68

TJKC: When inking this issue’s cover, were you trying to capture the feel of the 1960s FF you love so much?

MIKE: You bet! I was trying to channel Joe Sinnott as best I could. Thanks to TJKC, I’ve been able to see so much work in its penciled form before Joe gave it that special slickness he was so great at.

I guess what I’m saying is, as a kid, it was just there. It was taken for granted, because it was just part of our world, or our childhood. Growing up in Roseburg, Oregon, the neighborhood kids read comic books; we didn’t know when the books shipped, so we sporadically got them, and it was joyful when we had them. As an adult, it’s become this love affair, and this crash-course education over the past 10-15 years for me, to find everything that he had done, and who he’d worked with, and what collaborations worked best, and which weren’t as successful. But everything he did is so significant and so powerful and so inspiring. The only other artist who rivals him as an inspiration for me is Alex Toth. For me, Kirby is the King of Comics, and I’ll fight anybody who says he isn’t. Thinking on it, I would have to say it was with New Gods, when I was starting to read that I realized it was a man named Jack Kirby who was drawing all this stuff I loved so much that was always there.

TJKC: What’s the most memorable aspect of Kirby’s work?

MIKE: His ability to combine naturalism with explosive action. He mastered the full spectrum of dramatic storytelling. I get just as excited about the way he did folds and wrinkles in the clothes of a businessman walking down the street, as I do of somebody getting propelled across space by an intergalactic event. For me, there was just this magic in everything. I even love and appreciate the simpler things he did. I really love the quiet moments.

For me, it always goes back to the Fantastic Four, because they were a family unit. They’d read their fan mail. (laughter) They all had problems with their love life and self-image. Ben got harassed by the Yancy Street Gang; I can relate to that. (laughter) (above) Mike Allred’s cover for the July issue (#2) of the newest TwoMorrows magazine, Comicology, paying homage to Kirby’s cover to X-Men #1 (below).

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TJKC: Your wife Laura did an amazing job coloring the piece.

Any comments on her approach?

MIKE: Magic!

Laura, like me, loves that bold flat-color graphic look. She then gave it that ironic “Liechtenstein Big Dot” effect for an extra punch.

TJKC: How would you say Kirby influenced your work on Madman, and your new series The Atomics?

MIKE: With Madman it would have been on a subconscious level. Since I rediscovered comics as an adult in the late ’80s, countless influences were flying at me as I was trying to discover and hone my own style.

After absorbing decades of comic book history and all its masters, I’ve finally become confident enough in what’s unique about my work to consciously utilize outside inspirations, and with The Atomics, Kirby is definitely, unapologetically, enthusiastically the single greatest outside influence.

In fact, without his stunning example—39 pages in one month?!— I wouldn’t have even considered attempting a monthly schedule.★

Art © Steven Butler.

Art © Mark Lewis.

Kirby Homage Gallery

When I first saw this pencil piece by Steven Butler, I did a double-take, thinking it was an unpublished Kirby Machine Man pin-up. This guy’s definitely got the Kirby Spirit!

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(EDITOR’S NOTE: C’mon, admit it—you’ve tried to swipe Kirby’s work. We all have, haven’t we? Some of us are better than others, and a few have even made careers of it. But after we ran our Fan Art section in TJKC #23, we were literally deluged with submissions from all corners of the world. While I expected plenty of fan submissions, what I didn’t expect was the number of comics professionals who likewise sent us their own Kirby riffs, in homage to the man who inspired them to enter the comics biz in the first place.

But whether the submissions were by fans or pros, and regardless of everyone’s different background and degree of artistic talent, all the contributors had one thing in common: An intense love for Jack’s work.

These next few pages are just a small portion of what we’ve received, and stand as a testament to Jack’s influence on all of us. I’ll try to make room for more in an upcoming issue, but I’ve got such a huge stack, I’d have to do a couple of all-art issues to run them all. Still, don’t let that deter you; even if your work doesn’t see print, I love seeing your efforts.)

(left) Mark Lewis’ Kirby-inspired character Oblivia, from Big Bang Comics (including Mike Royer-style lettering!). (below) Arlen Schumer of Dynamic Duo Studios did this piece for Entertainment Weekly magazine to commemorate the final episode of the Seinfeld TV show.

Art © Arlen Schumer.

(above) Al Bigley’s interpretation of the Thing and the Puppet Master for Marvel’s Overpower Collector’s Card series.

Art © Al Bigley.

Art © Alex Horley.

Art © Jim Amash.

(left) Inker Jim Amash takes a graphic look at the father/son relationship in New Gods.

(right) Alex Horley offers up a very Kirbyesque interpretation of the Silver Surfer.

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There’ll never be another artist like Kirby, but for my money, the next best thing is Steve Rude. With the possible exception of Bruce Timm, no other artist is able to capture the essence of Kirby so well in their work, while still keeping it all their own—and without swiping! Steve kindly shared some of his commissioned drawings with me, most published here for the first time (clockwise from upper left of previous page): Avengers #4 cover recreation, Big Barda, Silver Surfer (this piece was used on billboards to promote the now-defunct Silver Surfer cartoon series), Hela, X-Men #1 cover recreation, Hulk, Kamandi, and the Demon.

All art © Steve Rude.

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Art © Dan Adkins.

(above) Dan Adkins inks over Kirby pencils on a Darkseid drawing from TJKC #6. (left) What if Steve Ditko had inked Kirby’s cover to Hulk #1? That’s the question “Mr. Monster” creator Michael T. Gilbert attempted to answer in this fabulous recreation of that famous cover, offering his best homage to both Kirby and Ditko.

bert. hael T. Gil Art © Mic

(right) Paul Smith inked this Loki drawing on the outside of an envelope mailed to a fan.

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Art © Paul Smith.

(left) Just for fun; a quick sketch done by Jack in the mid-1970s. Your guess is as good as ours who it’s supposed to be!

(left) Red Skull painting

by Harry Moore, from Kirby pencils. (right) Kirby Demon inked by Adam Koford. (lower left) AC Comics’ Fighting Yank, done in a Kirby style by Tom Doyle.

Art © Adam Koford.

(lower right) If Kirby had done any Hostess Twinkie ads in the 1970s, here’s what Thomas Scioli envisioned them to be like!

ore.

Art © Harry Mo

Art © Tho mas Scioli.

Art © Tom Doyle.

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Geraci.

Art © Philip Fried.

Art © Drew

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Art © Carl Taylor.

Art © R ob Ullm an.

lnick.

Art © Chris Ka

Art © Clifton Marley.

Art © Stefano Pavan.

Art © Shane Fo ley.

(top row, l to r) The Sandman from the Masterworks portfolio, inked by Drew Geraci.

Rob Ullman’s take on a famous vodka ad campaign.

Chris Kalnick’s cover for the small press zine Rewind, paying homage to Kirby’s classic FF #51 cover.

Shane Foley combined Kirby images to create this inked piece of Galactus & Darkseid.

Clifton F. Marley’s version of Kirby’s Thing. (bottom row, l to r) Philip Fried’s beautiful Kirby-inspired pencil work.

Carl Taylor pencils, and Kevin Andre Shaw inks on some of Carl’s own creations.

Pavan Stefano took the “Favorite Fourth World Stories” article from TJKC #17 and drew up a whole slew of covers to illustrate the fictitious issues described in it. This one is for New Gods #63.

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TWOMORROWS

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TWOMORROWS

TIDBITS

SEÑOR SIMONSON SENT US SOME SERIOUSLY SEDUCTIVE SAMPLES! ITEM! We can’t stress enough how excited we are about our new publication STREETWISE, which features autobiographical comics stories by the top names in comics! In addition to reprinting Kirby’s 10-page STREET CODE story (completely remastered for optimum reproduction), there’s new work by AMENDOLA, ANDERSON (Murphy & Brent), ARAGONÉS, CARDY, CHADWICK, COCKRUM, DORKIN, GLANZMAN, Jeffrey JONES, Joe KUBERT, KUPPERBERG, Gray MORROW (no relation!), Marie SEVERIN, SIMONSON, SIMPSON, SINNOTT, Paul SMITH, TRIMPE, VEITCH, WEISS, WINDSOR-SMITH, & more! It also features a foreword by WILL EISNER and a cover by STEVE RUDE, and this deluxe TRADE PAPERBACK is only $19.95 ($22.95 Canada, $29.95 elsewhere) from—where else?—TWOMORROWS in July!

ITEM! COMIC BOOK ARTIST #8 is now shipping, featuring COMICS’ STREAK OF INDEPENDENCE: 1980-85! Behind an amazing STEVE RUDE cover you’ll find articles, interviews, and rare and unpublished art by the pros who made that era great, like RUDE, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, DON SIMPSON, MIKE GRELL, SCOTT McCLOUD, and others! And don’t forget the CBA COLLECTION Trade Paperback, reprinting those hard-to-find, out of print early

I HATE WALTER SIMONSON! He sent me preview copies of the first four issues of his new ORION book for DC Comics. I’ve always felt Walt was the only guy other than Kirby who’d be capable of one day doing a decent NEW GODS comic (other artists might do nice work, but Walter’s got the writing chops as well). I’m ecstatic to say he’s exceeded beyond my wildest expectations! This is one awesome book—only he left a major cliffhanger at the end of #4, and now I’ve got to wait six months until #5 is published. ARRGGGHHHH! This book definitely has the “feel” of Kirby’s NEW GODS, so all you hardcore FOURTH WORLD fans should be happy. But the razor-sharp plotting and execution evokes what I’d always imagined Kirby’s series would’ve been if Jack had utilized a deft, sensitive editor to hone his amazing imagination and keep the stories more focused. I’ve been waiting since the early 1970s for someone to do the New Gods right, and FINALLY, it’s here. The first issue should be shipping by the time you read this; check it out for one incredibly Kirby-influenced experience!

issues in May! And you can still get the 68-page COMIC BOOK ARTIST SPECIAL EDITION #1 absolutely FREE by subscribing to CBA! (The SPECIAL spotlights the great ’70s DC Comics including NEAL ADAMS’ Superman Vs. Muhammad Ali, RUSS HEATH’S Sgt. Rock, interviews with MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN on KIRBY’S FOURTH WORLD, plus his SOUL LOVE and TRUE DIVORCE CASES books, and more!)

ITEM! Rascally ROY THOMAS’ classic comics ’zine ALTER EGO continues to present the best in rare art, new articles, features, and interviews with the greats of the Golden, Silver, and Bronze Ages. ALTER EGO #4 is now shipping, spotlighting 60th anniversaries for FLASH and HAWKMAN, and #5 ships in June, featuring a JUSTICE SOCIETY special issue. Don’t miss it!

ITEM! COMICOLOGY #1 ships in early May, focusing on the best of today’s comics and their creators! Editor BRIAN SANER LAMKEN has pulled out all the stops, giving in-depth coverage of both mainstream and indy comics, with the focus on behind-the-scenes details and rare art that you’ve come to expect from all the TwoMorrows publications. Check out our inside cover ad!

John Morrow, Editor

COMICOLOGY

JOHN’S JUKEBOX

Long Live The King!

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Here’s a list of upcoming themes, to give you ideas of things to write about. But don’t limit yourself to these—we treat these themes very loosely, so anything you write may fit somewhere. And just because we covered a topic once, don’t think we won’t print more about it. So get creative, and get writing; and as always, send us copies of your Kirby art! In no particular order: FAN FAVO RITES!

It’s a simple concept: What are your favorite Kirby stories, and why?

Let us know what you think! Plus, a special section on KAMANDI! KIRBY’S TWILIGHT YEARS!

From leaving Marvel in 1978 to his passing in 1994, we’ll explore the later years of Jack’s life and career, including a heavy focus on his animation work.

THE BIG O NE!

Kirby did everything larger-than-life, so from his longest stories and his best two-page spreads to those huge Treasury Editions and more, we’ll devote an entire issue to the biggest moments of his life and career. If it’s big and it’s Kirby, send it in!

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(Possibly in a British Annual?) Reading copy please. Kirk Groeneveld, 177 N. Congress, Athens, OH 45701.

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JACK KIRBY collectibles for sale. Many items already sold. Still a lot of good stuff available.

Visit http://members.home.net/dpbanks.

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ORIGINAL TJKC issues for sale. #1-15 available individually or as a set. All 1st printings except #1,2,3,4. Contact Paul Shiple, 419-6377860 for price list.

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WANTED: Low-grade reading copies or color xeroxes of NEWSBOY LEGION covers/stories from STAR SPANGLED COMICS #15, 17-20, 22-24, 28-30, 33, 35-52, 54, 56, 59, 61-62, 64 for article for KIRBY COLLECTOR. Will pay cash or trade TJKC subs. TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Dr., Raleigh, NC 27605. 919-833-8092.

THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #28 A TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE KIRBY ESTATE EDITOR: JOHN MORROW ASSISTANT EDITOR: PAMELA MORROW ASSOCIATE EDITOR: JON B. COOKE DESIGN & LAYOUT: TWOMORROWS PROOFREADING: RICHARD HOWELL COLORIST: TOM ZIUKO CONTRIBUTORS: DAN ADKINS JOHN ALEXANDER MIKE ALLRED

LAURA ALLRED JIM AMASH ANDRÉAS ETIENNE BARILLIER D. BRUCE BERRY AL BIGLEY GARY BISGAARD ROBERT L. BRYANT JR. STEVEN BUTLER MADISON CARTER MARK COALE JON B. COOKE GEOF DARROW JEAN DEPELLEY SHEL DORF TOM DOYLE KEVIN EASTMAN JEFF FACCHIN BILL FIELD SHANE FOLEY DAVID FOLKMAN PHILIP FRIED MIKE GARTLAND DREW GERACI GARY GIANNI MICHAEL T. GILBERT GLEN GOLD MARK HAMILL SHAWN HAMILTON DAVID HAMILTON PAT HILGER ALEX HORLEY GÉRARD JEAN CHRIS KALNICK ROBERT J. KAROL KARL KESEL JEREMY KIRBY TRACY KIRBY ADAM KOFORD JOHN KRICFALUSI MARTY LASICK MARK LEWIS JEAN-MARC LOFFICIER CLIFTON F. MARLEY MARK MAYERSON MOEBIUS CLAYTON MOORE HARRY MOORE BRIAN PEARCE STEFANO PRIARONE PHILIPPE QUEVEAU RAYMOND REHAYEM MARK REZNICEK STEVE ROBERTSON STEVE RUDE ARLEN SCHUMER THOMAS SCIOLI KEVIN SHAW PAUL SMITH PAVAN STEFANO CARL TAYLOR BRUCE TIMM CHRIS TWOMEY ROB ULLMAN R.J. VITONE RAY WYMAN TOM ZIUKO SPECIAL THANKS TO: MIKE ALLRED JON B. COOKE MIKE GARTLAND D. HAMBONE RANDY HOPPE RICHARD HOWELL ROBERT KATZ MARK PACELLA MIKE THIBODEAUX BRUCE TIMM RAY WYMAN JR. TOM ZIUKO AND OF COURSE THE KIRBY ESTATE MAILING CREW: RUSS GARWOOD D. HAMBONE GLEN MUSIAL ED STELLI PATRICK VARKER 78

Collector Comments

Send letters to: The Jack Kirby Collector c/o TwoMorrows • 1812 Park Drive Raleigh, NC 27605 or E-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com _____________________________________________

Just spent some time with TJKC #27. Well, you’ve done it again! I gotta say I love your magazine almost as much as new Kirby comics! The account presented by Ray Wyman about the War may be the most interesting and revealing Kirby ever. Unprecedented insight into Jack and what it was like during WWII. It was the “meatiest” reading I think you’ve yet presented, which says a lot.

One thing that would be nice is a little more info on the covers, which is sometimes lacking. Like issue #27, for instance. I mean we know who the characters are and it’s dated by Jack, but what the hell was that drawing done for?

Something that continually comes across when you interview comics creators about Jack and their favorite stuff is WHEN they were reading comics and how old they were at the time—like how many times JIMMY OLSEN was mentioned! I was a Kirby nut for years when that stuff came out and I did buy it and read it, but much preferred the NEW GODS, et. al. while they (sniff) lasted. I also recall how jarring Jack’s writing seemed at first, but looking back at his Marvel heyday, sometimes Stan’s writing doesn’t hold up too well for me now. And I would say that the Marvel stuff was a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, but I DO absolutely credit Stan for pulling Marvel together and making it something fun to be a part of, something very special that worked because of his spin. No matter what else I say, I am not a Lee Basher. However, having said that.... ...some people may feel Jack never did as well on his own after leaving Marvel, but I must disagree strongly. As Roz once politely pointed out, what did Stan do BEFORE or AFTER Jack Kirby that made much of a real splash?

Yet Darkseid, Mister Miracle, etc. are still around and kicking ass, the Demon, the Eternals, Machine Man, etc. are still viable characters, generating money and entertaining today’s audiences through the hands of other creators. And Jack’s solo stuff gets better when you see more and more what he was trying to do. No, the BLACK PANTHER does not get my vote for The World’s Greatest Comic Magazine, but there are younger readers out there who loved it.

One thing that you could always count on with a Kirby comic, whether it was KAMANDI or THE LOSERS, THOR or the FF, Jack always TOOK you somewhere interesting and unique. I think he had to entertain himself first and the result was always entertaining for us too. There was an energy and a vision at work that I could never resist.

For me, the success of any comic is completely the result of who’s doing it. I was knocked out by CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN and GREEN ARROW when Kirby did them, and had no idea why.

When I was a kid, very few artists and writers got to sign their work, yet certain comics were really great and others were just so much wasted paper, quickly forgotten.

Only later did I find out why. It was Jack Kirby, or Carl Barks, or John Stanley whose company I was enjoying.

Not the characters per se... my, but I do go on, don’t I? Pete Von Sholly, Tujunga, CA (Last issue’s Side One cover, featuring Spidey, Thor, Ikaris, and Iron Man, was—as far as we know—a piece commissioned by a fan in the late 1970s. Sorry we weren’t more specific.) _____________________________________________

Congratulations for this new issue, both instructive and funny at the same time.

The virtual Kirby panel was very pleasant and every protagonist played the game with sincere answers, mostly nostalgic if not informative. As usual, Barry Windsor Smith’s words were a bit “out of tune” in this assembly as the guy considers himself more an Artist than the average comic book artist (it must have something to do with the Windsor in his name).

I really enjoyed your article on the West Coast pro-

jects. News on the MALIBU MANIACS book and other items have been expected for years by me, even though these were Kirby’s last concepts and pencils and were not intended as series or animations by their author. I sincerely hope the artistic production will be up to the project. Moreover, I’ve found Kirby’s posthumous books (such as SECRET CITY SAGA) to be too ambitious in their goal to compete with Kirby’s Fourth World masterpiece and consequently suffering from it. Maybe it would be wiser to begin with a simple story with just one hero (like Jack did during his career, in his DC FIRST ISSUE SPECIALs for example) and to integrate it only after into a complex multi-story. The avalanche of new characters was fatal to most of the Image books.

Jack’s war article was a very nice work of compilation.

His war time was certainly an important influence on his creativity as well as his philosophy. As a consequence, I do prefer Jack’s post-war works, psychologically richer (the Mainline books, mostly) than his CAPTAIN AMERICA, for instance.

The Alex Ross interview featured nice pencils, even though I’m not so fond of his art. As a matter of fact, I can’t understand his artistic point of view. Ross, like Neal Adams 30 years ago, brought a new kind of realism in a medium that used to be expressionistic and idiosyncratic.

Personally, I can’t imagine realistic super-heroes without a few laughs, seeing them as transvestites in a Halloween parade or kitsch show biz artists. New storytelling methods, weird camera angles, or light and shade won’t change my opinion. Pathos is something relying on credibility, not on mere effects. Moreover, this realistic approach can only be seen as a counterpoint—an homage—to the first, previously developed by people like Kirby, Colan, or the late Kane. I think realistic artists should work on realistic themes and not on super-heroes.

It’s about time to create new (and adult) genres in American comics.

Jean Depelley, FRANCE (I dunno, Jean. To me, Alex Ross’ work is just so darn cool—I have to disagree with you. Something about that ultra-realistic style brings out the 12-year-old in me, making me remember when I’d try to imagine what superheroes would look like in real life—and seeing Alex paint over Kirby pencils on TJKC #19’s cover was just stunning to me. A large number of people must’ve agreed, considering how quickly the issue sold out.) _____________________________________________ Thought I would alert you to a common misconception of Jack’s sketch of “God Turning His Back on Mankind.”

[TJKC #26] He once told me that it was a misinterpretation, and what he meant was that, “like all good fathers, one has to let their children find their own way in the world.” Jack didn’t believe God would turn His back on us.

Michael Zuccaro, Playa del Rey, CA _____________________________________________

Have you seen the recent film “Face Off”? Who invented the storyline first? Jack Kirby naturally!

Look at THOR #179. In particular, page 7, panel 5 (the face in the jar) and then page 10, panels 6 and 7, where Thor looks like a blond John Travolta and Loki a nasty Nicholas Cage. A further proof of Jack’s influence on Hollywood.

Michele Pagano, New York, NY _____________________________________________

It should be mentioned that Kirby has had influences in areas of culture not touched on in TJKC #27. Irregardless of one’s views of grafitti art, it is a pervasive movement around the world. I know some of the originators of this form; and in particular Phase Two has been hailed as a great innovator, and is himself a Kirby admirer. I believe Phase incorporated aspects of Kirby’s techno-cosmic forms with his advanced lettering forms to create the most complex abstract grafitti. I would certainly count Vaughn Bode, Philippe Druillet, and Kirby AND Mike Royer as prime influences on grafitti, and I find evidence of the “overwhelming, powerful plastic mark-making” that Mark Staff Brandl refers to in TJKC #27 pervasive throughout grafitti history. Jack has also influenced a whole generation of filmmakers such as Lucas and Spielberg; you can

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see it in their work.

I wonder, given Stanley Kubrick’s attention to detail, what he thought of Jack’s versions of 2001? He surely was aware of Jack’s work. Those have become some of my favorites of all Jack’s comics. I recall a sculpture done in the 1980s by Robert Longo that was a great swirling cosmic pop warrior that really spoke of Kirby, and Longo now makes films. We’ll see more things like the MATRIX creators saying they love Kirby, you watch. The generation that grew up with KIRBY UNLEASHED is just coming into power!!!!

James Romberger, New York, NY

(We’ve got a special article on 2001 coming up in our January 2001 issue; what more appropriate time, eh?) _____________________________________________

I’m in Jack Kirby heaven with THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27! I can’t believe this magazine; there are so many Jack Kirby sketches throughout, and I know there will be more that I have never seen published, found only in TJKC! Loved the proposals for the Genesis West covers and the MALIBU MANIACS cover done by Kirby.

With the vast super-heroes created by Jack Kirby, one can say that Kirby was a universe within himself. Neverending flow of creations came from the mind of Jack Kirby and we the collectors can share in this wealth, due to your magazine.

When reading comics like EVIL ERNIE and LADY DEATH, it’s amazing to learn that the creator Brian Pulido worshiped Jack Kirby. Jack Kirby one way or another has influenced almost all of the comic book creators. Highly enjoyed the article: “Jack Kirby on WWII Influences.” I was surprised to learn that Jack met General Patton. I had my own run-in with the son of General Patton, who was a general at the time. General Patton II was inspecting the troops of 2nd Armored Division in Ft. Hood, Texas and out of all the soldiers he greeted, he singled me out and said that my shoes looked like they were polished with a Hershey bar. Of course, you know I was shaking in my boots after encountering the son of the legendary Patton of WWII. Again, thank you for the fond memories of Jack Kirby!

Paul Dale Roberts, Elk Grove, CA _____________________________________________

The Kirby chat list, in-between heated ramblings on this and that, has had a lot of favorable comments about [#27]. Particularly Tom [Morehouse’s] centerspread, and also the war piece.

Re: Jean Depelley’s STRANGE TALES page, where Jack’s lettering is seen under the inked word balloons— we know Larry Lieber used to give full scripts to Jack to draw. Wouldn’t you say this would just be Jack penciling Larry’s script in place as he drew? Sounds like the sort of thing he’d do. It wouldn’t slow him up at all and he’d probably change the script as he saw fit as he went—hence, perhaps, Stan’s re-writing as well. So these pages would have come in to Marvel looking like his lettered post-1970 pencils.

Those THOR #144 pages you keep turning up are just so beautiful. How I wish Giacoia had inked them. They really have a delightful angular ‘roughness’ that Colletta smoothed out. And the fact that there are still some FF pages to find is fabulous. These and THOR pages are the cream!

“The Two Jacks” and “There Is No Hiatus”—I left these until last because they seemed to be the ‘heaviest.’ When I read them I was blown away—they are BRILLIANT! Absolutely inspiring to hear such artistic gentlemen working in non-comic spheres, yet able to praise and use the work of Jack as they do. The best part of the book.

The JIMMY OLSEN #142 Covers: To me there seems more here than originally meets the eye. I first noticed the branches over Superman’s head in Version 1 actually seemed to be left over from the tree in Version 2. Is it really ‘Version 1’? Then noticed to the right of the logo on both Versions 1 & 2 the Vampire’s finger cropped off as if the larger figure—as shown in Version 3—had originally been there. Also in Versions 1 and 2 under the Vampire’s arm on the right side of the page, the trees are only loosely penciled, not inked, as if the swirling cloak that appears in Version 3 was originally there, or was planned to be

there—or something. Just on this evidence, it would seem to me that Version 3 is the first done, then Version 2 (with the finger next to the logo accidentally left in and part of the cloak removed), then Version 1 done last, with a bit of the branches over Superman’s head remaining from Version 2. Or did you have to do some reconstruction work yourself?

Neil Gaiman said he can’t remember any Kirby dialogue, unlike with other writers. I tried that myself with my three all-time favorite writers and found I could do it with all three: ROY THOMAS (SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN #191): The snake man saying to the thief who broke into Thoth Ammon’s fortress. “Do you imagine my master has nothing better to do than venture forth to greet every ThomDakk and Ha-Ray who stumbles into his temple?”

STAN LEE (FF #90): Ben Grimm to the Great Games Trainer: “This is nothin’. You should see me duelin’ with my knittin’ needles!” What a classic line!!

JACK KIRBY (NEW GODS #9): Not a funny one this, but where Orion is on the roof and meets Eve Donner who describes a battle with monsters the previous day, Orion turns, shows her his face and says, “Oh yes, madam, there were monsters!” What a fabulous bit of cinema—and Kirby scripting—that was.

We often note how Stan edited Jack’s work—but now we also have evidence of how Stan edited himself. Of the 8 lettered but uninked pages so far presented from THOR #166, no less than three of them show additions/corrections made after it was initially lettered but before the book was published.

1) Page 20, panel 7 (COLLECTED TJKC #1)—the word balloon was added.

2) Page 14 (TJKC #26)—the final arrow-shaped caption was added.

3) Page 1 (also #26)—the inker is originally lettered in as Joe Sinnott.

While the 3rd is probably a simple proofreading example (of Vinnie himself maybe), the first two show that sometimes at least—as opposed to examples like FF ANNUAL #5, which had both inker credit error and glitches in the script—Stan had the time to reappraise his own work. Incidentally, I think the general tone in your books toward Stan is very fairminded—including the “Failure to Communicate” pieces.

Shane Foley, AUSTRALIA (It seems unusual to me that those STRANGE TALES #103 panels are the only instance we’ve seen of Jack penciling-in dialogue in the word balloons in early Marvel stories, leading me to believe he scripted that issue. An example is shown this issue in Mike Gartland’s article so you can judge for yourself.

Also, on those JIMMY OLSEN #142 covers, you’re right; we had to work backwards from Version 3, removing pasteovers from the original art, and scanning each version before uncovering the next, earlier version. So, some of the touch-ups on Version 3 might’ve gotten left on the board when we turned it into Version 2, etc., but I think it gives us a pretty close idea how the piece looked at each step.) _____________________________________________

Since I discovered TJKC a little over two years ago, I have come to enjoy the different aspects of the magazine.

Though I was drawn initially by the opportunity to see copies of Kirby’s work which was uninked and/or unpublished, I admit to some pleasure now in reading the gossipy socio-histories (pseudohistorical gossip?) and the pieces where contributors try to graft portions of Kirby’s work into their personal life philosophies.

I realize that “personalities” are what sells. SPORTS ILLUSTRATED is more about athletes and their personal lives than it is about sports, and PEOPLE MAGAZINE’s name cuts straight to the chase. Having said this, I still hope you will work to keep in “hard” information about the comic artwork and comic storytelling. Without those, Kirby might still be a great guy that everyone loved, but we wouldn’t be buying and reading a magazine about him or debating his philosophy of life and religion.

Of course, I am building an argument to ask for something. I would like to see a notation with each drawing you reproduce which tells the actual dimensions of the original. This really does make a difference if you are studying the artwork.

One aspect of TJKC which has been particularly helpful to me is the unintentional debunking of some of the myths. I can’t tell you how intimidating it is to hear that Jack Kirby drew as if he were tracing a picture that was already there, or to hear that he started at the upper lefthand corner of the page and simply drew across and down. It is comforting to see the trial-and-error sketchlines which still show on the reproductions of his drawings; especially things like the rough cover design for the Big Barda book which shows obvious changes in the pose, and the Stuntman splash, with the girl and the trapeze which very clearly shows at least three major changes of the pose. Even the example cited on page 62 of TJKC #26 belies itself, as the photograph of the work in process shows unfinished portions near the “beginning” when he is halfway through the page. Still, I can see that he might have drawn in this fashion in his later work of lesser quality. That might explain the chronic skew and the loss of perspective and proportion (or was there some type of medical problem involved?).

Would it be possible to get some articles about the

mechanics of Jack’s artwork as opposed to the metaphysics? I can’t help but feel I am not the only one who would be interested. It would be great if people who were actually around him while he was drawing (preferably other artists from the late ’50s and ’60s) would describe the process. I’d love to know what pencil leads he preferred. Did he use lighter leads for layouts and darker leads for finishing? Did he erase much of the sketchlines or did he just go back darkening the lines he wanted to keep and leaving the others for the inker to deal with? Did he use a straight-edge much, for walls and buildings and such, or was it all freehand? Did he draw his blacks as he went or did he come back to them after his outlines were completed? Did he keep a very sharp point on his pencils, or did he draw too quickly to worry about it—or did he use a sharp point for some things and not others? Did he work on one page until it was finished, or did he set them aside and work on other pages and return to them?

I think that people who are interested in the artwork will find this information at least as fascinating as whether Jack participated in a lawsuit, whether he was working for a certain company in one year or the next, or what another fan thinks Freud or Nietzsche would have thought of the Mangog.

Clifton F. Marley, Robbins, NC (Since Jack’s no longer with us, it’s tough to write articles about his technique, but we’ll do our best to in the future.

I recall he used an HB lead pencil and Kid-finish board.)

NEXT ISSUE: #29 looks at the trials, tribulations, and triumphs of Kirby’s work at 1970s MARVEL COMICS! It starts with color Kirby covers inked

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