Jack Kirby Collector #87 by TwoMorrows Publishing

JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR EIGHTY-SEVEN

SUMMER 2023

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Contents

THE

LAW & ORDER! OPENING SHOT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 JACK FAQs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Mark Evanier’s 2022 Kirby Tribute Panel, featuring Frank Miller, Jeremy Kirby, Bruce Simon, Rand Hoppe, and Steve Saffel

ISSUE #87, SUMMER 2023

C o l l e c t o r

COP OUT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 Sgt. Muldoon: Villain or Hero? GALLERY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 Kirby’s super cops INCIDENTAL ICONOGRAPHY. . . . . 28 Sean Kleefeld accuses Ronan of fluctuating design HOT DOCS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Kirby’s days in and out of court BAD MAN-AGEMENT. . . . . . . . . . . 32 who redesigned Paste-Pot Pete? FOUNDATIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 a never-reprinted crime story INNERVIEW. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 Joe Simon speaks... INNERVIEW. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 ...as does Jack Kirby! KIRBY KINETICS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 order and chaos in Kirby’s work KIRBY OBSCURA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66 more 1950s treasures TRAIL JUSTICE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 68 the Silver Kid and the Black Rider COLLECTOR COMMENTS. . . . . . . . 78 Front cover inks: MIKE MACHLAN Front cover colors: TOM ZIUKO

[right] Sandman and Sandy (sans mask), drawn for the 1978 Kirby Masterworks portfolio. Sadly, this issue’s cover inker Mike Machlan passed away earlier this year. COPYRIGHTS: Boy Commandos, Challengers of the Unknown, Darkseid, Dingbats of Danger Street, Funky Flashman, Guardian, Houseroy, I Doomed The World, In The Days of the Mob, Izaya, Kalibak, Lightray, New Gods, OMAC, Orion, Sandman, Sandy, Superman, Terrible Turpin, Terry Dean, Terry Mullins, The Magic Hammer TM & © DC Comics • Black Rider, Cap’n Barracuda, Captain America, Doctor Strange, Dr. Doom, Fiery Mask, Galactus, Hulk, Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Mr. Fantastic, Nick Fury, Paste-Pot Pete, Roderick Kane, Ronan, Sandman, Sentinels, Sgt. Muldoon, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Steve Rogers, The Terrible Time Machine, Thing, Thor, Trapster, Vision, Wilhelm Van Vile, Wizard TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc. • The Black Hole TM & © Disney • Boys’ Ranch, Bullseye, Fighting American, Jail, Justice Traps the Guilty, My Date, Police Trap, Speedboy, Stuntman TM & © Joe Simon & Jack Kirby Estates • Captain Victory, Cyclone Burk, Galaxy Green, Satan’s Six, Sky Masters, Surf Hunter, Wonder Warriors TM & © Jack Kirby Estate • Blue Bolt, Johnny Reb & Billy Yank, Silver Kid TM & © the respective owner • Captain 3-D TM & © Harvey Comics

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The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 29, No. 87, Summer 2023. Published quarterly (by law?) by and © TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. 919-449-0344. John Morrow, Editor/Publisher. Single issues: $15 postpaid US ($19 elsewhere). Four-issue subscriptions: $53 Economy US, $78 International, $19 Digital. Editorial package © TwoMorrows Publishing, a division of TwoMorrows Inc. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All Kirby artwork is © Jack Kirby Estate unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. Views expressed here are those of the respective authors, and not necessarily those of TwoMorrows Publishing or the Jack Kirby Estate. First printing. PRINTED IN CHINA. ISSN 1932-6912

Opening Shot

Commissioner’s Report by guest commentator Robert L. Bryant Jr.

Among all the battles Jack Kirby ever drew, “The Death Wish of I began wondering what police reports would look like in the Fourth Terrible Turpin” in New Gods #8 (1972) has to be one of the most terriWorld, with demigods using Earth as a battlefield and clashing with hunfyingly intense. And much of that comes from Metropolis Police detective dreds of cops. Here’s one possible example, built on the aftermath of Dan “Terrible” Turpin, Turpin’s tale—along with a police sketch artist’s account of the incident: who tries to stop Kalibak of Apokolips from tearing down his town, only to get beaten into a raw mass of flesh and blood. Fifty years later, the story Case No. X-299 has lost none of Date: March 13, 1972 its power. Reporting Officer: MICHAEL DIONNE, ACTING CHIE I’ve been in F, METROPOLIS POLICE DEPARTM Prepared By: GASPAR SALADINO, a newspaper job ENT STENOGRAPHER Inc iden t: This report is based o that required n testimony provided by sever MPD officers, state police, the al dozen MPD officers during debr me to write Federal Bureau of Investig iefings and interviews with ation and February 17, 1972, which will hereafter be known as the Incide the U.S. Department of Defense. It focuses on the events of stories off of nt. The basic facts of the Incident re police incident appeared in downtown Metropolis a well-documented and will not be challenged here. On the above date, a “metahuman” referred to as the Subject A and wreaked havoc on two city blocks, causing millions of doll r be reports, arrest . t some point, another “met a s in damage. He will hereafter ahuman” attacked the Subject hereafter be referred to as Subje and later fled the scene. This perso ct Two. warrants, and n will sometimes internal reports Detail of Event: from the state police. The Subject was stopped by the the Subject was not killed, only re MPD using a new weapon that channels electricity to ne r The level of a -nuclear levels of power. Incredibly ndered unconscious for approxi , curity cell, as we could not cons mately a day. He is currently being held in MPD’s special m ider allowing him to mix with detail in the general jail population. ax-seThe Susp xxxxect xx Subject is described by an officer o n scene as “a big, hairy one. Ro r these reports investigator, David Lincoln, is a s and smells like a zoo.” A loc know al private spelling). Lincoln identified Subje n to have ties to these “metahumans.” Lincoln identified Subje can range ct as “KALIBAK” (unsure of ct Two as “O’RYAN.” His loc ation is unknown. from “barely Subject is currently charged with : there” to “you -- Resisting arrest, approxim ately 250 counts -- Assaulting an officer, approxi could write mately 175 counts -Illeg disc al r h ge of a a screenplay a deadly weapon within city limits, e.g., the Subject’s use of e damage property, approxim an nergy-firing club to assault offi ately 175 counts from this.” cers and -- Destruction of

POLICE REPORT

city-owned and privately-owned property, damage estimates not -- Failure to obey lawful comm available, approximately 200 cou ands issued by police officers, unde nts -- Attempted murder, undeterm termined number of counts ined number of counts -- Unlawful entry into the Unite d States by a foreign national for purposes of committing terror ism and mass destruction

Actions Taken/Summary:

Arraignment will have to be conducted by video, as there An attorney for Subject is no possibility of letting Subje will be provided by the City of ct mix with courtroom perso Metropolis. Subject has been re nnel. Special mention must be m ad his Miranda rights. He laughed ade of the remarkable on-scene re at them. sponse provided by MPD Det nesses affirmed that he risked . Sgt. Daniel Turpin. Dozens of withis life multiple times to stop Subject, even trying to comb gun fire and grenades proved at Subject hand-to-hand when m ineffective. achineOfficers on scene said that Det Sgt . . Turpin made his way to a roofto rooftop, without success Officer p where snipers were engaging . s on scene said Det. Sgt. Tur Subject, on adjoining pin personally challenged Subje you one minute to turn yourself ct, shouting, “You there! I’m givi in!” Det. Sgt. Turpin then jum ng ped to rooftop where Subject w brick chimney,” nearly burying as located. Subject “flung” a “l rge Det. Sgt a Det. Sgt. Turpin ordered officers . Turpin. to stay back as he hit Subject was brief, as Subject climbed b with shock grenades, knocking him off roof. Officers’ reprieve ack, seized Det. Sgt. Turpin and spu n him in the air with one hand. A appeared and engaged Subject h t and to hand, then vanished seco nds before MPD neutralized Subje this point, Subject Two Officers on scene said Det. Sgt ct with electrical weapon. . Turpin was still conscious whe way to bust him. Now we’ll find n they arrived to render aid. He s a way to hold him. And we’ll get the Sgt. Turpin is in critical but st others, too. This town belongs aid defiantly: “We found a to us!” As of this writing, Det able condition at City Hospital. .

Mark Evanier

JACK F.A.Q.s

A column answering Frequently Asked Questions about Kirby

2022 Kirby Tribute Panel Held at Comic-Con International: San Diego on July 24, 2022

Featuring moderator Mark Evanier, Frank Miller, Jeremy Kirby, Bruce Simon, Rand Hoppe, and Steve Saffel. Transcribed by Karl Heitmueller Jr., and copyedited by Mark Evanier and John Morrow.

[above] Jack being mobbed by fans at a mid-1970s San Diego Comic-Con. All photos on this page are by Shel Dorf. [top] Just for fun, here’s Mark Evanier from another early 1970s San Diego con. You haven’t changed a bit, Mark! (Can anyone out there send us images of each year’s San Diego Con badge, to help identify exact dates of these con photos in the future?) [right] Nelson Bridwell, also mid-1970s. [below] A very happy Hulk illo. The “H-5” designation implies that this might be an animation concept drawing for a potential Hulk cartoon—maybe for Ruby-Spears? (Or maybe it’s just a sketch for a sick friend who had trouble getting the child-safe lid off their prescription bottle...) [next page, top] The 2022 panelists (l to r). Back row: Mark Evanier, Frank Miller, Steve Saffel. Front row: Jeremy Kirby, Bruce Simon, Rand Hoppe.

MARK EVANIER: Good morning, it’s Sunday, isn’t it? Wow. Well, it’s lovely to see one third or one half of all your familiar faces out there. This is the panel I look forward to most at the convention. Does anybody here not know that I’m Mark Evanier? Okay, thanks. (moderate applause) Either a lot or nothing, please. (laughter) I look forward to this panel because, first of all, I spend much of every convention talking about Jack Kirby. I spend much of my life talking about Jack Kirby. I hope each and every one of you, at some point in your life, meets someone who is so special, and is so important to so many people’s lives, that you could spend the rest of your life talking about them and have people say, “You mean you actually knew him, you actually met him?” I told a couple stories before about the reactions I got when people learned that I knew Jack Kirby, and they’re all 100% positive except for the production department at DC Comics, (laughter) and Mort Weisinger. (crowd murmurs) I met Mort Weisinger on his last day as the editor of Superman; literally the last day. A man named Nelson Bridwell introduced me to him, and Mort Weisinger remembered my name vaguely, and I said to him, “I had a lot of letters printed in your comics, and you and I had a brief correspondence, and you almost bought my first script.” And he said, “I wish I’d been able to,” you know, because what else can you say in those cases? And he said, “Are you working in comics now?” And I said, “Yes, I’m an assistant to Jack Kirby,” and the reaction was kinda like, (grunts and growls)… it’s hard to describe it, but it was not a positive reaction. Mort Weisinger had said, “Jack Kirby will work for DC over my dead body,” and that was pretty much what had happened. (laughter) He shook my hand again, and he walked out. He was there to sign off on the last issue of Superman to go to press that he had anything to do with, and he left DC after forty years that day. A couple of years later, I ran into Nelson Bridwell at a convention, and he mentioned that meeting to me. I said, “I’m surprised you remember that,” and he said, “Remember? I’ll never forget it. Seeing that man leave was the happiest day of my life!” (laughter) Anyway, we’re going to talk about Jack for a while here. We’re also going to talk about a fellow named Steve Sherman, whom some of us were also privileged to have in our lives. I’ve asked my friend, Bruce Simon… I’ve known Bruce longer than anyone in this room. BRUCE SIMON: Since 1968. EVANIER: Yeah, Bruce was a member of our old comic book club, and he was a good friend of Steve’s for a long time. Bruce has his own wonderful work he’s done as a cartoonist, but we’re not going to have time to talk about that today; we’re gonna talk about Steve. We also have on the panel Jeremy Kirby, Jack’s grandson. (applause) Isn’t it great that he’s on here carrying on the legend, the tradition? I get so sick of the word “legend,” I think it’s an overused word, it’s becoming so meaningless. You know, Paul Bunyan was a legend, Johnny Appleseed was a legend. These people did not exist, but they were legends. And I’m going to get him to talk a little bit about the reactions he gets when people find out who he’s related to. We also have—Frank Miller will show up when Frank Miller shows up. Oh, there’s Frank Miller! (Frank walks in, applause) Thank you my friend, have a seat here. Let me finish introducing other people. The gentleman in the hat 4

down there is the, uh, what’s your title? I always forget your title. RAND HOPPE: I could go for Executive Director. EVANIER: Executive Director of the Jack Kirby Museum and Research Center, Rand Hoppe. (applause) And the other end, this is my good friend Steve Saffel. Steve has worked over the years for most of the publishers in the business, and was heavily involved in representing Joe Simon on those Titan books that collected Simon & Kirby material. He was a good friend of Joe’s, somebody who helped Joe a lot, and Steve and I used to visit Joe together, and just extract comic book history from him. He’s another person who has the brag of, “Hey, I knew Joe Simon,” that was a very important thing. STEVE SAFFEL: The thing with Joe, it was a little bit like Tuesdays with Morrie, but all comics. (laughter)

moment that I’m sure you’ve heard about, when Jack was fighting to get his original art back from Marvel. It was a very ugly thing, way uglier than it had to be. There was only one possible outcome: they had to give back to him whatever they had, but they dragged their feet, and they stalled, and they tried to get him to sign papers, and they tried to get him to relinquish rights that they claimed they already owned, and “We’d like for you to sign again that we own them”—it was very ugly. At one point, the main argument that Marvel was using to justify holding onto all this artwork—which they were returning to other people—was that it was industry custom. And you know you’re on shaky legal ground when you can’t produce a single piece of paper, and you have to say, “It’s an industry custom.” Marvel would not have accepted you doing work for them without a piece of paper signing away the rights, but it was industry custom that you already had, and “industry custom” didn’t cut it as far as lawyers were concerned, but it was all they had. Now, Frank here, you all know what Frank’s done for comics, it’s an amazing track record. If he’d quit halfway through it, you’d still be praising his work, and he had a lot of clout in the business. He still has a lot of clout in the business, but he had a lot of clout, and people can use their clout for themselves, to enrich themselves, to further their lives, or they can use it to help other people out. Frank chose to use his clout to help Jack out a lot—at one point on a radio show in L.A. that laid out the case against Marvel very brilliantly, I thought Frank was wonderful on that. Then he went to the people at DC Comics, Jenette Kahn and Dick Giordano, and he got them to release a statement. When this panel is transcribed and printed in The Jack Kirby Collector, I hope this page is facing a reprint of that statement on the opposite page. [Taa-dahh! – editor] It was DC Comics declaring essentially that the way they’d always done business with artists had always been wrong; that “industry custom” was not to keep all the artwork. They knocked all the legs out from underneath Marvel’s principal argument, and essentially undermined all the things that previous managements at DC had claimed. I just stared at that letter when I first saw it, aghast. I could not have believed that DC lawyers would let them do that. It caused a lot of internal problems; remember that DC Comics owned MAD Magazine, and

EVANIER: Joe was an amazing guy, if you ever got to see him talk. Now, I always start this with a little history lesson. Frank, don’t listen to this, because you’re in it. I want to take you all back to a

Frank, do you remember that? Was it Jenette you went to first? MILLER: It was Jenette I pretty much always went to, because she was someone from outside the world of comics, who was looking at them with fresh eyes, and was very much interested in the talent. And she in many ways ushered in what we called the British Invasion, with the leading figure of that being Alan Moore, but then Dave Gibbons and Brian Bolland and a number of others—which, you know, that was like the first British Invasion, and then Neil Gaiman has been a British Invasion all his own. So she was always looking for ways to brighten up DC’s position. She transformed the offices themselves. They were like a pop art celebration all of a sudden, instead of being dreary old offices. Physically, they just looked, like they had Zip-a-Tone wallpaper and such, and so you’d walk in and you felt like you were in a place that produced really cool material. But when I went, I was invited over to her office, for instance, to meet with her when I was doing Daredevil at Marvel, and I just started rambling to her about this crazy idea I had for a book called Ronin, and she changed a number of things about DC policy in order for us to work it out.

From February 17, 1986, taken during the Hour 25 radio show on Pacifica Radio (KPFK-FM 90.7 in Los Angeles) featuring (l to r) Steve Gerber, Kirby, Mark Evanier, and Frank Miller, discussing Kirby’s original art battle with Marvel Comics.

Bill Gaines was still claiming that under industry custom, he owned all the artwork. But nevertheless, they did this, and I called up Dick Giordano and said, “I can’t believe you guys did that,” and he said, “Well, Frank asked us to.” And he didn’t have to tell me which Frank it was. And Frank, who could’ve used his clout to get more money out of DC…

EVANIER: And she changed DC’s policy to get Jack back working for them, and to get some money off the Kenner toys of Darkseid and Orion and Mister Miracle. You know, the toys which the previous regime at DC had said would never happen because the characters were not licensable. “Why would anybody do toys of your New Gods stuff when we can sell Superman and Batman?”

FRANK MILLER: I did that, too! (laughter) EVANIER: I not only respected Frank for the work he put on paper, I respected the hell out of him for what he did on behalf of Jack Kirby. And I would like you all to thank Frank Miller. (sustained applause)

MILLER: Yeah. And I’ve got to say that of all Jack’s material—and this is just my personal feeling; that when I grew up, believe me, as a Marvel fanatic, in awe of Galactus, and all of the Kirby and Ditko

[above] September 16, 1979 Black Hole strip, based on the Disney film. Script and layouts by Carl Fallberg, inks and facial fixes by Mike Royer.

creations—my personal favorite work by Jack Kirby was the Fourth World. That, I felt, was when Jack just took a step and created a Jack Kirby genre in comics, and really showed how he could just work expansively across a much broader tapestry.

welcome?” Because a certain prominent person in the comic book business, who shall remain nameless, had spread the word that Stan was banned from the funeral, and I had to call Stan and Stan’s assistant called me, and… anyway, Stan was welcome there, but he got in his car and started driving off before he said hello to the family. Do you remember this? And Stan was driving this Volkswagen Rabbit, whose license plate was MRVL CMX. And I was literally, like, running out in the parking lot after him, like, “Shane! Come back! Shane!”

EVANIER: I feel that Steve Sherman and I have not gotten enough credit for not doing anything on those books. (laughter) I mean, I wrote one page in a Mister Miracle story, but our other contribution was, Jack would tell us the story for the whole next issue, and we’d sit there and say, “Hey, that sounds great, Jack!” And then he would sit down to write and draw a different story, and occasionally I’d look at the finished story and go, “What happened to that whole scene in the cave?” and Jack went, “Oh, I didn’t bother with that.” (laughter) I tell people that there’s a certain joy to comics—I feel like a traitor to my profession when I say this—that are written and drawn by the same person. There’s something wonderful about a lot of them. Frank has done a lot of them. Frank did wonderful stories, work drawing other people’s stories, and then when they were Frank’s stories, they were that much better. And most of you who are applauding his work are applauding the stuff he did on his own, or which he had control of, picking the colorist, picking the inker. I believe you picked the letterer on your books.

MILLER: That’s a reference to an old Western! (laughter) You’re dating yourself! EVANIER: How many people know the reference? (smattering of applause) Okay. One thing you never have to do at a Kirby audience is footnote stuff. (laughter) They know this stuff well. And then we set up a phone call the next day with Roz and Stan, and it was not like “Everything’s forgiven,” but it was like, “Let’s put this stuff aside, let’s not stay angry at each other.” MILLER: Yeah, I think that what they came to resolve, really, was that they had a great partnership, and that if anything, neither of them was the culprit there. It was like…

MILLER: Then I became him. (Miller laughs)

EVANIER: I’m not sure I’d go that far.

EVANIER: That’s right! And when people say, “Gee, I wish somebody else had dialogued New Gods,” I say, “It would not have been the same book with different dialogue, it would have been a completely different comic.” And nobody can say how good or bad it would’ve been…

MILLER: What I mean is, they should’ve owned it. EVANIER: Okay. But Stan didn’t want to own [Marvel]. Stan wanted to be a lifetime employee. MILLER: Okay, okay, you know better than I do, Mark.

EVANIER: I think Stan gets mischaracterized a lot for doing things… you know, EVANIER: I love the dialogue there’s a saying, “Never now. The more I read those choose deviousness, that books, I realize that Jack was which should be explained by doing with words what he was incompetence.” And somedoing with the human form. times it’s also, “Never choose MILLER: Yes. deviousness, that which can [above] We remain in awe of Titan Books’ Simon & Kirby Archives. Edited by Steve Saffel, with restored and recolored art by Harry Mendryk, they’re the pinnacle that all future be explained by stark fear of EVANIER: What other Jack Golden Age reprints should aspire to, and a must-have item for any Kirby collector. unemployment.” It doesn’t Kirby work do you love? forgive it. There’s a difference MILLER: Oh, God, it’s like, you know… Challengers of the Unknown, between forgiving something and explaining it. the dinosaur stuff. We’re talking about an astonishing career that MILLER: And we’re talking about people who lived through times was what, fifty years long? that weren’t as abundant as ours. And especially Jack, he was the EVANIER: Longer than that. older of the two. MILLER: I love that dialogue!

MILLER: Sixty? Like the Newsboy Legion… both times! The stuff that was done in the ’40s and the stuff that was done in the, what was it, the ’70s? And excuse me, may I make a statement that points one thing in particular out? Jack Kirby made Jimmy Olsen the most crazy, great comic there was! (applause)

EVANIER: And to bring us back to Frank for a minute. Frank was an example of—and there’s quite a few others you could all name— someone who got into comics and didn’t submit to the way things were done. Neal Adams was another person… the guys who got in in Jack’s era, Depression-era kids, were reared with one basic principle in life: There is nothing more important for a man than to bring a paycheck home to his family on Fridays and pay the rent, and pay for the groceries, and pay for the kids’ braces. Jeremy will tell you that Jack was a good provider.

EVANIER: Yeah. Frank was at Jack’s funeral. Remember that? And that was a very fascinating day of very mixed emotions, a lot of people crying, a lot of people… a fellow named Jim Hudnall spent the entire time during the services turned around, and scowling at the person sitting behind him, who was Stan Lee. He just stared at him, stared daggers, like, “How dare you be here?” And Stan was actually invited, the Kirby family wanted to bury some of those ill feelings, and they came to me and said, “Will you make sure Stan knows he’s

JEREMY KIRBY: Absolutely. EVANIER: The family never lacked for anything. KIRBY: It’s true. But that was his number one concern. Every week, 7

trying to do simulations of Jack, I just have to say, whenever I saw that happen, and Jack saw it, he would just say, “Please, do it, but do it your way. Don’t do it my way; I’m doing that.” It’s true, and to this day, I see people tying themselves up into knots trying to be a simulation Jack Kirby. There will never be another Jack Kirby. MILLER: Nope! I’ve got to jump in here, though, and say that, as an artist, that I’m occasionally asked who the biggest influences were on me, and people who know me all the way back to my Daredevil stuff will say Gil Kane, for instance, whose work I studied a great deal for anatomical ruthlessness that he did, and other people will be mentioned. They’re always surprised when I list Jack among my greatest influences. In many ways, he’s influenced me a great deal as a writer as well, in that he loved mythology. He did mythology. That was all he ever did. And his characters, I believe, particularly in New Gods, were him accessing his Judaism in its most powerful elements and its big epical figures. Go back to Galactus, and it even goes back to those monsters in the old days… those characters to me are… that’s the origin of the super-hero there. It’s like, come on, you know, a little baby being cast across the rivers of space? SIMON: It’s Moses in space! (laughter) STEVE SAFFEL: Mark, can I jump in for a second? Because I once watched Jean Giraud, Moebius, just sketching on a piece of paper on a lunch table, and I realized that I was watching an idea born in his head, running down the neck, down the arms, through the pen, and onto the page, with nothing in-between. It was just, literally, whatever originated in his head made it onto that piece of paper. Now, think about Jack in that perspective, and think about the power of everything he did—the sheer, explosive, gargantuan power—and all of that started up here. And when you think about it, what he had in his head has to have been something we can’t even begin to comprehend, because of the power. But that’s also the argument against trying to copy him, Simon & Kirby humor page from My Date #1 (July 1947), prior to the team’s romance success. because unless you happen to have his head on your paycheck to paycheck. shoulders, it ain’t gonna happen. EVANIER: You have to understand all this in that context. All the MILLER: It sure isn’t! other guys of Jack’s generation were like that in one way or another. SAFFEL: Because when you copy him, you’re starting with what he It manifested itself in different ways. But along came another gendid, instead of starting with what originates in yourself. eration of guys, and a lot of us—and I count myself among them— looked at… I mean, I knew Jerry Siegel, and a more bitter man, you MILLER: I think it was Neal Adams who once said that people who could not find. He was a bitter man because he saw his co-creation imitate other artists, the only thing they learn is their mistakes. making zillions of dollars for people who wished he would just curl Because you’re just seeing an artist’s prejudice there. But Mark once up and die and not be an embarrassment to them. described it somewhere, I believe it was in print once—watching

Jack draw felt like you were watching something impossible, because he would just touch the pencil to the paper and lay down what I believe Mark referred to as “a few mystic lines.” Then he would come in with a hard line and do the entire detailed drawing.

MILLER: Yeah. Yeah.

EVANIER: And Frank was smart enough to look at that example as well as other people, and say, “I’m not gonna wind up like that.” And, you own an awful lot of what you did for companies over the years, and the stuff they might own, they don’t dare reprint it without your blessing and consent and approval.

EVANIER: Yeah, it looked like he was tracing an existing drawing only he could see, starting at the left—even with very complicated perspectives, which you would think he’d be doing from both ends towards the middle. We actually do a panel with this core principle of starting at the head; we do one every year called “Quick Draw,” we did it yesterday… (light applause) …a lot or none, please. (laughter) And I’ve had fifty years of watching my friend Sergio Aragonés draw, and not knowing what was coming out of that pencil. (applause) Oddly enough, another panel I did yesterday was about improvisational comedy with Phil LaMarr, and we were talking

MILLER: Ah, sure. I mean, the stuff I don’t own, yes. But the stuff I do own, yes. EVANIER: And Jack was not resentful of people like Frank. He admired them. And Bruce, you talked to Jack about this stuff, too, how Jack was so giving to the new generation of people. SIMON: No one was more encouraging than Jack, and when I see so many people out there who think they’re complimenting Jack by 8

about this whole idea of, “You don’t think about it and then do it; you do it!” And Jack was an improvisational guy, and that’s why, when he told me in advance what an issue of New Gods was going to be about, the final product was frequently not about that, exactly. I’m remembering two quotes while we’re talking here, and I’m sure you may have heard them. There are moments I remember from Jack: one was when he was reading a fanzine, and it said some new kid was taking over one of his old Marvel comics, and it said his plan was to do stories in the Kirby tradition. And Jack just looked at me and he said, “The kid doesn’t get it, the Kirby tradition is to create a new comic.” And I thought, “I’m gonna use that someday…”.

and even when he did other people’s characters, he brought a whole new twist to them, a whole new perspective to them—which other people, of course, tried to replicate after him, to varying degrees of success. I’d like to ask Steve Saffel—you were working with Joe Simon a lot, and Joe probably told you stories about working with Jack, and how Jack would just come up with stuff out of nowhere. SAFFEL: It was pretty amazing. The thing is, they worked so closely together, that it was essentially his other marriage. And it went really well for many, many years. They had a bit of a falling out at one point, and then in later years, we would talk about Jack, and it was clear that the falling out had pretty much just gone away, because they meant too much to each other. And they’d talk regularly, but they had a very organic way of working. Shoot, out in Minneola, they lived across the street from each other, they built studios in the attic of each house. Apparently Jack built an impossible studio in the attic of his house, because I think getting stuff out of it was almost impossible, and they had to. But he talked about one night working late on Stuntman, and they were sitting in the studio where they were working together, Simon and Kirby, and Joe looks at a double-page spread from the Robin Hood [story, Stuntman #2, 1946] and says something to the effect of, “Jack, you’ve got the wrong number of legs in here.” And Jack’s like, “Joe, it’s just a comic book.” And so the next day, as Joe’s inking it, he’s like, “Oh! I found the other leg!” And Jack looked at him and said, “I knew you would.” (laughter) And it was just that sort of a seamless working ethic that worked really well. They truly sort of spoke the same language, their artwork was at times so well mixed that you sort of didn’t see where one began and the other ended. To me, sitting and talking to Joe was transcendent. He really loved Jack, and the one thing that he did talk about was, it was all for the family. No matter what happened, it was for the family.

MILLER: Well, you just did. EVANIER: Yes, and, you know, he did not encourage people to follow in his footsteps, and he was really kind of shocked there were kids who thought the greatest thing you could achieve in life was to ink the Hulk… or use other people’s characters. And Frank went from doing other people’s characters to doing his own characters,

SIMON: I have a story that not only is about Steve Sherman, but is about Joe Simon. Jack was at the Comic Art Convention in New York in 1972, and Steve was there, too, assisting him at his table, and I was there, hanging around and also seeing the convention. I was talking to them both when Joe walked up to the table, and he and Jack had not seen each other, I think he said, since the late ’50s. And it was just a couple of New York Jewish guys going, “Hey, what’s going on, blah-blah-blah,” and they said, “Let’s go upstairs,” and Steve and I were privileged to go upstairs to Jack’s room. They both slip off their shoes, and they’re lying on the twin beds, staring up at the celling in their stocking feet, and they’re just like, “So what about him, and what about her, what’s going on?” EVANIER: It sounds like the end of The Sunshine Boys. (laughter) SIMON: It was. Steve and I were going, like, “We’re seeing something extremely special here,” but it really wasn’t! You know, these were guys who had known and worked together for decades, but we were privileged to see them just being themselves and just kicking it around. An unused Simon & Kirby cover for their Mainline Comics title Police Trap.

SAFFEL: They were a couple of sons of Schneiders. Because they both came out of the Jewish clothing

industry and they both… Joe went straight from high school into working for newspapers doing cartooning and photography alteration, and he was doing editing over at Fox Comics when Al Harvey comes over and says, “I know this guy who’s heard that you have side gigs doing stories that you sell to a variety of publishers, and he’d kinda like to meet you.” And he mentions that it was—I don’t know if [Jack] was going by “Kirby” at that point…

eighteen hours straight and just keep producing great pages and different ideas, and you could throw anything at him. Joe used to say that they would throw together an idea, and Jack would take it in twelve different directions at once. He was just amazing that way. SAFFEL: It strikes me that I remember a story where Roz was in the hospital about to give birth. I’m not sure which child, so I’m not even gonna try. And they had just had a new comic book come out, and it was Young Romance. And they were on their way to a shop to get something for Roz, I think—or more likely a cigar—and there were a bunch of girls clustered around the spinner rack, or wherever the display was, and it’s like, “Oh, what’s going on?” And they’re like, “We know what’s going on.” And they created the romance comic book. I mean, before that, it was largely the humor thing, it was Archie, or it was…

HOPPE: No, it was “Kurtzberg.” SAFFEL: …but Joe was like, “I’ve seen his work, I would like to talk to him,” and the next thing you know, [Jack] got Blue Bolt #2, and it just kept going. And it was just because… I believe it must have been love at first sight. I dunno! EVANIER: Well, the two guys complemented each other so well because Joe could do something Jack couldn’t do well, which was talk to publishers and edit and package and stuff like that. Simon & Kirby got much better deals than Kirby. And Jack could do something that Joe couldn’t, which was to sit at the drawing board for

EVANIER: My Date with… SAFFEL: …House-Date Harry. Still, it was all for the humor. And now all of a sudden, they basically created the soap opera for comics. And, like you said, they did not let Crestwood have it until they got the deal they wanted. And they did very well on romance comics. EVANIER: And the way Jack told me the story was, they saw these women flocking around looking at Young Romance comics, and Joe went, “We should have asked for even more money.” (laughter) SAFFEL: That has to be true. EVANIER: Yes, that absolutely is true. What was interesting to me, hearing the story from Joe, then hearing the same story from Jack, and they didn’t match exactly, but they kind of fit together. Because you know, neither of them was that fabulous in the memory department, but the stories were not contradictory ever in any way, just… a few different details on where this happened or where that happened. That trip to New York was the time that Jack lost his wallet and Joe got his car locked in the parking lot overnight, I believe. SIMON: Right. That was the less fun part of the story. EVANIER: But the point was, they were taking care of each other. Joe had to pay for dinner because Jack lost his wallet, and he helped him cancel his credit cards and things like that. Meanwhile, Joe went to get his car, but he’d stayed too late and the parking lot was locked for the night. Joe came back, the hotel was full, so they let Joe crash in the room with them and Steve Sherman. In Joe’s autobiography, he tells that story, and talks about me being there. I was not there. (laughter) SIMON: No, you were not there. EVANIER: I was not on that trip. I mention that because, when you read the history of these people, you can’t take it absolutely… the story is true about the credit cards, at least Joe and Jack agreed on that story. You know, oddly enough, and I’ll get back to this, I’ve heard Stan Lee describe his version of something. I’ve heard Jack describe his version of something, and frequently 10

friend?” “Well, it’s this guy.” “But you haven’t seen him in years!” “Yeah, but, he’s just my best friend.” You know, it definitely entails that. I’d hear them on the phone—this is later, so probably ’80s or ’90s— and even my grandma, she’d jump on as well, but they’d just kind of pick up right where they’d leave off. Even if there was an argument, still, it was very much just kind of a real conversation. So, it wasn’t really beating around the bush, it was just straight into things, and going forth into it. SAFFEL: The funny thing is, sitting around Joe’s place, talking about this stuff—when I said Tuesdays with Morrie, it really was kind of that. We worked on a second autobiography—it was called Joe Simon: My Life in Comics, and the whole idea was, literally sitting and trying to replicate sitting in Joe’s living room. And you do have to remember that there were some stories that he had probably told so many times that it was kind of difficult to tell how they might have evolved. But what was also really cool was looking out the window of his apartment on 56th, you saw Wilmot Plaza, which had been the location of Madison Square Garden, which in 1939 was the location of a Nazi Bund meeting in New York, a huge one, which had a little impact on what Joe and Jack did. And then, just a little bit further in the distance, you saw the McGraw Hill building on 42nd Street, a very iconic sort of Art Deco building, where Timely Comics was in 1940. And so, you could actually sort of see Simon & Kirby’s history through that window.

[this spread] Kirby’s pencils from Satan’s Six (done in the late 1970s for a never-realized comics line prior to Pacific Comics), and Frank Miller’s inks for its eventual publication in 1993 at Topps Comics.

EVANIER: I used to have lunch with Joe every time I went to New York, at the Ben Ash Delicatessen on Broadway. I had my then-girlfriend Carolyn with me, and Joe would stop off and buy her a flower on the way because, not only did he like her, but she was a cartoonist’s daughter—a cartoonist that he admired, Walt Kelly. And he would sit there and just tell us all these lovely, wonderful stories, and the point of every story was what a great guy Jack was, and how good they were together. Now, Rand Hoppe has been monopolizing the conversation here, so I want to ask: Rand, does any of this surprise you, what you’re hearing up here?

HOPPE: Oh, no. I was just thinking about a friend of mine from college who called me up after five years and said, “You’re like my brother,” and I’m like, “Well, let’s talk more often then, you know?” I had that same feeling about the way that Joe and Jack must’ve felt.

they did interface. People keep saying, “You’ll never know what happened.” Well, no… Stan told me this and Jack told me that. What you can’t do is always take Stan’s public statements literally. What he said to me in private is very different from the stuff he said where his employers might read it, or the person negotiating his new contract might read it.

MILLER: You never write! You never call!

MILLER: I had the same experience with Stan. Very much the same.

EVANIER: I had to act as the liaison between—well, also between Lee and Kirby a few times—between Joe and Jack. Joe at one point was very angry at me for some business dealings that he felt I had cheated him on, and it took a while to convince him I was not Greg Theakston. (audience murmurs) And then finally, he figured that out.

EVANIER: Yeah. He wanted to be your buddy. He wanted to be your friend over dinner or lunch, but when it came time for Stan to make the next deal for Stan Lee, he was a different Stan Lee. MILLER: Yeah. Yeah. EVANIER: Jeremy, is any of this we’re telling surprising to you?

SAFFEL: When we worked together on that Best of Simon and Kirby [series], he had nothing but good things to say about you.

KIRBY: (chuckles) No, not at all. Yeah, I would definitely say in Joe Simon’s case, that he’s kind of that best friend that most of us have, who you can go years without seeing, but still consider them your best friend, you know? If anyone ever asks you, “Who’s your best

EVANIER: Well, when my book on Jack came out from Abrams, Kirby: King of Comics, I was making a trip to New York. I was going to be at the New York convention, and Joe, out of the blue, called me and said, “Can I sit with you and sign copies?” And I thought, 11

[above] February 2, 1958 installment of Johnny Reb & Billy Yank, ghost-penciled by Kirby, and inked by Frank Giacoia. We’ve found examples as early as Nov. 18, 1956 where Jack was helping his friend Frank on the strip, and are currently researching earlier strips to see how far back the collaboration went. Stay tuned for our upcoming “In The News” theme issue!

“Wow, that’s…”. I wouldn’t have thought to ask him that, ’cause it was not his version of the history, it was Jack’s version of the history. But Joe sat with me for about three hours, signing books for people, and they’d come up to get my signature, and I’d say, “No, you want his signature. He did these pages, here.” And I showed him, we reprinted a Fighting American story in the book from the original art, and there’s one panel in there—now you’ll run home to your copies if you have it and look for it—where there’s a fight scene of bodies all entangled. And it’s obvious, whichever one that was inking—it’s hard to tell on some of these pages— couldn’t figure out which body parts connected with which bodies, and there’s a guy there who has an arm growing out of his leg or something like that, you have to really look to see it. And I showed it to Joe, and he never caught it. He was amazed by it. SIMON: Imagine the colorist trying to puzzle that out.

[next page] That must’ve been some punch! One guy has his left hand on the end of his right arm— and what’s with the backward legs in the foreground? Original art from Fighting American #2 (July 1954) from Mark’s book Kirby: King of Comics.

EVANIER: Yeah. You know, one of the many ways Jack fought with DC was he hated the coloring in the DC books. That was sacrilege. And then he said to Sol Harrison at DC he thought the coloring in the Marvel books was better, and made an enemy for life. It was frightening. He said, “They color everything like it’s a war comic.” All these muted greens and khaki colors, and he loved Marie Severin and Stan Goldberg, and the whole Marvel… the brighter colors. MILLER: Well, [if] everything would look like a World War II poster, that’s what he probably wanted. EVANIER: He loved red, yellow, and blue. 12

MILLER: If the paper had been better, it would’ve been red, white, and blue. EVANIER: When DC originally colored the Fourth World characters, they ignored Jack’s sketches completely. Because they could do better color than anyone. They did the exact same thing to Steve Ditko. He showed me the color schemes he had worked out for the Hawk and the Dove and the Creeper, and he had colored some drawings, and DC said, “No, we color, you don’t color.” And he hated the color on those books. He hated a lot of things about those books. MILLER: Like the rewrites. EVANIER: Like the rewrites! There’s an example of how there are writers and artists who may be very talented in their own way, but.. to everybody I work with, I quote this line Stephen Sondheim used to say: “The most important thing about doing a musical is to make sure everyone’s working on the same show.” (laughter) And clearly Jack had a lot of comics where Stan was not dialoguing the story that Jack wrote. Or where the inker was not inking the drawings that Jack did. MILLER: Well, you know, I’m speaking ill of a lot of the dead here, and I really don’t mean to. But I think that, for instance, Vince Colletta was a talented cartoonist, but I always found that his work on top of Jack struck against the basic power of Jack’s work—and in a profound way, where with some of the stronger brush guys, you can’t really say [that]. EVANIER: Yeah. Jack loved most of his inkers, including

ones that a lot of fans didn’t like. But he was not fond of Mr. Colletta. He was not fond of anybody who he felt wasn’t giving 110%.

I don’t have to draw this, Joe will put that in. I can just rough this in, Joe will clean it up.”

MILLER: Yeah, well, erasing the backgrounds wasn’t good.

MILLER: Speaking of Joe Sinnott, that was an inker on Kirby who was unforgettable. I mean, he did some real knockout stuff.

EVANIER: Yeah. That’s not a good thing. What would you have done, Frank, if on an issue of Daredevil, Klaus Janson had just taken out details you spent time on?

EVANIER: Yeah, well, Joe was amazing. There’s a page in my book on Jack, that I have the original art to. It’s a full page of Doctor Doom holding a gun. If you’ve ever seen it, you’ll never forget it. Joe claimed that he spent about six hours inking that gun. Exactly.

MILLER: At the time I was doing Daredevil, I probably would have had a hysterical hissy fit. (laughter) Working with Klaus now, I’d just call him up and say, “Hey Klaus, did you have a reason?” (laughter) And it’s like, you know, “Is there something I’m doing that’s throwing you off here? Did you think it was too distracting?” And I guarantee you, he’d have a very good reason.

MILLER: What’s the shot? EVANIER: It’s a shot of Doctor Doom holding this Kirbyesque gun. It’s from the Fantastic Four “Prisoner” story. I print it as a full page in my book, and the gun is just mesmerizing. The perspective is all off on it, but it works. Joe trued it up a little bit, I’m sure. I never saw the pencils on that particular page, but Joe captured the energy and the power no matter how long it took. There are guys who’d say, “Okay, for what I’m being paid, I’m gonna spend ninety minutes on a page, or two hours on a page.” Joe would spend all day on a page if that’s what it took to do it right. And Mike Royer also; I always mention this because I think it’s so incredible how hard Mike Royer worked. There are people in this world, including Frank Giacoia and Joe Sinnott, who could not have inked the volume of pages that Mike Royer inked, and Mike even lettered the pages, too.

EVANIER: Well, one of the problems, I always felt that Vince’s style was not compatible with Jack’s style. Regardless of the amount of effort he put in, which I thought was often minimal, it was just a bad match. There’s a lot of bad matches in comics, and there’s also some times… MILLER: With Jack, there were some combinations that I wish we could’ve seen more of, like George Klein. EVANIER: He didn’t like George Klein very much. MILLER: Really!

SIMON: Yes. And that was a breakthrough, to have an inker and letterer designing the whole book. I’m sure that drove DC nuts. (laughter)

SAFFEL: How about Dick Ayers? I always liked Ayers. EVANIER: He was fine with Dick Ayers on the early stuff. I think at one point, if you leave Mike Royer out of the equation for a moment, because Mike was a very special… Mike Royer was different from most of the other inkers, because Mike was an inker who felt he was working for Jack, not for the publisher. If DC said to Vince, “Great job, here’s the next issue,” Vince felt he had done his job well, and it didn’t matter what Jack thought. One of the main reasons Jack got rid of Vince was because Vince had said to Jack, “I’m pleasing Carmine, I don’t care what you think.” If you completely left Mike Royer out of it, and you said to Jack, “One person is going to ink your work for the rest of your life, who would you like it to be?” he would’ve said, “Frankie Giacoia.” On the spot. Definitely.

MILLER: In the battle between Orion and Kalibak, who was it? The one where there was a punch-out that went on forever… EVANIER: Oh, where his face gets bloodied… MILLER: The monster stuff starts coming out of him… whichever it was, that was a Royer job, and he let himself get ugly with it. And it was really wonderfully done. EVANIER: Mike Royer—if you had to invent the perfect inker for Jack at that moment, you’d have to have a guy who, first of all, was a good letterer, because we had nobody else who could letter the book. You had to have a guy who was very faithful to the work, because Jack wanted it to look like Kirby. He did not want his style submerged. You know, every couple of weeks, Sol Harrison would call up and say, “Why can’t you draw more like Curt Swan and Neal Adams?” And the inker would have to be a guy who was super, unbelievably reliable, and also have the personality to realize that Jack was the boss, and New York was not the boss. Mike was absolutely perfect in all those regards.

MILLER: A very talented man. EVANIER: A very talented man. I once said to Sol Brodsky, who had a lot to do with who inked who on Marvel Comics of the ’60s and the ’70s, “A penciler should have more say in who the inker is.” I heard Gene Colan complain about this inker, or John Buscema complain about… you know, all the inkers he wasn’t related to, or who weren’t Frankie Giacoia. (laughter) And I said, “What would be wrong with saying to a penciler, ‘Give me a list of the three inkers you want, and I’ll get one of them’,” and he said, “The problem is that everybody would’ve wanted Frank Giacoia.” That was the guy that all the pencilers loved. MILLER: When I came in, it was Terry Austin. EVANIER: Yeah, everybody loved Terry Austin. Unfortunately, for example, some of the guys who loved Joe Sinnott inking their work was because, “Oh, Joe will fill in this background, Joe will draw it… 13

what you were doing, sort of push past that. MILLER: Excuse me, I have to mention a certain Mr. Janson here, because Klaus is someone who creates something that is ready for the press. His originals, while I think they are beautiful, are not designed to be pretty pieces that you want to hang on the wall. They’re designed to be shrunk down and prepared for press, and to roll off the presses. His inking is indestructible. You just can’t kill it. They don’t come better than Klaus. (applause) Tell him I said that! EVANIER: I’m going to shift topics here for a moment, and I apologize for all the topics we aren’t going to be able to get to. But before I do, I want to especially single this out, because we’re going to ignore Frank for the rest of this panel here. (laughter) MILLER: I’ll go home. EVANIER: No, you don’t have to, please stay. MILLER: No, I wanna go home. If I’m not the center of attention, I don’t like to be anywhere. (laughter)

[above] Full-pager of Doctor Doom from Fantastic Four #84 (March 1969). Inks by Joe Sinnott. [next page] From New Gods #8 (May 1972). Mike Royer faithfully depicted the ugliness Kirby put into the characters’ faces in his pencil art.

MILLER: I love the combination. Also, the stuff was perfectly suited for newsprint comics—something I would like to bring back. Because that’s a completely different way of drawing, it’s a different way of rendering, it’s a different way of coloring, that makes for a much more absorbent kind of experience. Kirby was the master of newsprint. No one could ever touch him because… hence the brevity and the bold punch of his artwork. He was the guy who all the pretty boys could never stand up to. SAFFEL: Well, Frank, you came into it around the time that newsprint publishing of comics was sort of at its low, because some of the production of your time was just so terrible. MILLER: Yeah, they had switched from metal to plastic plates. SAFFEL: Yet you managed to, through the power of 14

EVANIER: Okay, let me say two things, and we’ll let you leave. At the Eisner awards, I was a presenter Friday night, and I went back to the green room, and Frank was sitting there, because he was on just before me—I love following Frank Miller. (laughter) And I said to him, simultaneously, “I want to thank you for agreeing to do the Jack Kirby panel,” and he simultaneously said to me, “I want to thank you for having me on the Jack Kirby panel.” And I thought he might be difficult to get because there are so many demands on his time, but he was so enthused about coming here and being part of this because—and I think this shows in his work and his life—he’s never lost what brought that love of comics in the first place. I remember you and I being at the premiere of Sin City, and there are about twelve moments in that movie where every person in that theater was going to think “Jack Kirby.” (Miller laughs) There’s a Jack Kirby punch, there’s a Jack Kirby movement, and it was unmistakable. I mean, the movie was your style, but you could feel that influence of Jack in certain moments there, vividly, the energy that came off the screen. MILLER: Crashing through the window… EVANIER: Crashing through the window, and things like that. And I was with Sergio, and Sergio kept saying, “Ohh, it’s a Jack Kirby comic book on the screen for a minute there!” and it was a wonderful, wonderful night. And I think I thanked you for putting Jack’s name in the credits. It meant a lot. I mean, it’s one thing when Marvel was dragged kicking and screaming into putting his name on the Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer material. You were under no obligation to put Jack’s name in there; he didn’t write anything in there, he didn’t draw anything in there, but you were aware of the tradition that he infused in it.

Hotel. (laughter) EVANIER: Or, in other words, this room! MILLER: That sounds really illegal. (laughter) EVANIER: Let’s see if we can tell people what was wonderful about Steve.

MILLER: Well, it’s the same way I couldn’t leave Will Eisner’s name off it. I felt that this was a big comic book movie and that it should celebrate that. I’m not gonna do that without Jack’s name on it.

SIMON: Wow. Steve had qualities that a lot of the other members of the comic book club did not have. He could drive a car… (laughter)

EVANIER: Anyway, I’ve got thirteen minutes left to talk about Steve Sherman here. You don’t have to stay for this if you want to go.

EVANIER: He knew when to shut up… (laughter)

MILLER: Ahh, I’ll hang out. I’ve got nowhere else to go. (laughter, applause)

SIMON: He needed to know when to speak, because he was a very quiet guy. His father, Eli, was an electrician, so consequently, Steve was the only one of us who knew how to run things. He could run a camera, he could figure out how to do color separations, he could MacGyver his way in and out of things, where the rest of us were like, (in nerd voice) “Oh, what’s going on with Doctor Doom?” So, as a practical matter—he was a few years older than the majority of the club members—he showed us what it was like to be a competent, nice, good guy. And he loved comics, and he loved working with Jack, and he also loved the world of special effects and puppetry, and that’s what he made his life’s work with his business partner and friend, Greg Williams. They opened a studio in North Hollywood called Puppet Studio, where they created creatures for a lot of movies that you’ve seen, I’m sure. Men in Black, all those little creatures running around. They worked on the Disney remake of Mighty Joe Young, working those gigantic hands coming in to grab people. They also did hundreds of television commercials. If any of you are old enough to remember O.G. Readmore, the ABC weekend specials; Mark wrote all of those, and Steve and Greg manipulated the O.G. Readmore puppet with an array of celebrities every week, which was hilarious…

EVANIER: Bruce, you and I are going to do a lot of this here. We had a comic book club in Los Angeles for a couple of years. We met at a place called Palms Recreation Center, 2950 Overland Avenue. Why do I remember this stuff? (laughter) I was the president, Rob Gluckson was the vice-president, Rob Solomon, Mike Rotblatt, Bruce Schweiger, we had a whole bunch of people there. This is where I met Bruce, and we became good friends, and I met this guy, Steve Sherman, and his brother Gary, who were largely inseparable for a long time. SIMON: Totally inseparable. EVANIER: In August of 1970, I think it was August, Steve picked me up at my house, and Bruce and Gary and Steve and I came down to the first San Diego convention together. SIMON: Three hundred sweaty boys in a basement at the U.S. Grant

EVANIER: Yeah, 15

month. The first person he allowed us to tell was Bruce… SIMON: “Are you kidding?” EVANIER: …and Bruce didn’t believe us at first. SIMON: No, but it was the best move he ever made, so we owe him a lot for that. Go on, Mark, you can always speak, I’m having a moment. EVANIER: Well, the thing was, that he embraced everybody. Jack was your friend the moment you met Jack, and Steve was also, he got along well… and we kind of wince sometimes, because people took advantage of Jack. He was not that difficult to take advantage of, unfortunately. But Steve did so much for the family. [Jack’s daughter] Lisa had a horse in the back of the house, and every so often, Jack would say, “I’m gonna go out and shovel sh*t for a while” and he would go out and he would pick up a spade and start shoveling horsesh*t and flinging it into the canyon down there. Steve and I would go, “Jack, why don’t you go back and draw? We can shovel sh*t as well as you can! You can use your time best at the table.” MILLER: That’s wonderful. EVANIER: And Jack thought that was honest work. And also, the canyon it was overlooking had these motorcyclists that just drove him nuts, because the canyon amplified the sound… MILLER: Did he hit ’em? EVANIER: Well, he was trying to imagine, flinging the sh*t down and hitting them with it, and he’s like, “This is for the guy with the big beard!” (laughter) And of course, he never came anywhere near them, and he wouldn’t have wanted to. But it was a very cathartic venture, and Steve and I kept fighting over the shovel… SIMON: Let me tell a quick story. After Steve passed and before his memorial last August, his beloved Diana, his widow, asked me to come down and help sort through his library, and his collection of art and this and that, and pick out special things among [it]. He had every book on comics and stop motion animation and special effects and this and that. And knowing Steve, like myself, he would squirrel things away in books—like, we have the same kind of nitwit habits. Going through the library, I would separate them into piles, and one was like, the very common junk pile. And there was a beat-up copy of Origins of Marvel Comics by Stan Lee, that mass-market paperback that printed the origin stories, and it was really beat… and something stopped me from tossing it into a box. I opened it up, and on the inside cover were beautiful portraits of Reed Richards, the Thing, Johnny Storm, and the Hulk licking a lollipop, and it was just something [Jack] drew in there for Steve. And I almost tossed it! [Rand holds up a copy of TJKC #84’s splash page with that drawing on it, shown above.] Oh, there it is! It made me go back through every single item.

literally what happened was, ABC asked me to write these O.G. Readmore spec segments to be taped, and I said, “Sure.” And they said, “We’ve got a puppeteer who’s going to make this puppet and operate it; it’s two guys named Greg Williams and Steve Sherman,” and I went, “I know Steve Sherman, he was my partner for years.” And then later, I was working for Sid and Marty Krofft, and two or three times, they hired Steve on shows I would write, just by coincidence. SIMON: Yeah, they wanted the top, so they got the top writers, and the top puppeteers. EVANIER: Well, top puppeteers. Steve was—this is a word people sometimes use as a pejorative—decent. He was just a really decent guy. He was honest, he wasn’t rude to people, he was friendly. He got along with everybody, and he was a great friend to the Kirby family.

SAFFEL: One quick suggestion: get down to the Kirby Museum booth as soon as you can to buy the copies, because there’s one less available at the moment. (applause)

SIMON: And he had an incredible work ethic. I just want to tell you, if you are interested, TwoMorrows put together a Steve Sherman tribute issue of the Jack Kirby Collector [#84], which will be out in September. We do have a limited amount of advance copies that were air freighted out. So come by the Jack Kirby Museum table, and perhaps you’d like to buy one. It’s a great tribute to a really great guy who we all miss dearly. I considered him my best friend, and it was a real shock when he left us last year.

EVANIER: We’re going to do two things here, the second of which is, we’re all going to pose for photos for the people with cameras in the front row. That’s Bruce Guthrie, who goes around and takes ten thousand photos of every panel, and everything at the convention, and does an amazing job. (applause) But for the first thing, I want you to thank Steve Saffel for being such a good friend to Joe Simon, Rand Hoppe for being such a good friend of Kirby history, Bruce Simon for being such a good friend of Steve Sherman’s, Jeremy Kirby for being such a good friend to his grandfather, and Frank Miller—not just for all the comics he did, but for all that he did for Jack Kirby. H

EVANIER: Yeah, his memorial service was the first time I’d left the house in the Covid period, because I could not miss that moment. He was important to me in many ways. We never had a fight; we went through a lot of grief and stuff like that. When Jack hired Steve and myself, he swore us to secrecy about the fact that he was leaving Marvel and going to DC, and we had to keep this secret for about a 16

Sgt. Muldoon: Villain or Hero— Sample Headline

cop OUT

[below] Pencils from Mister Miracle #6 (Feb. 1972). If Stan was going to parody Jack as Sgt. Muldoon in Captain America #139 (July 1971, right), Jack would up the ante with Funky Flashman.

You Decide!

verything is quiet, until—that voice pierces the air! Funky Flashman has entered the room. TJKC #75 (Kirby & Lee: Stuf’ Said!) is an amazing, firsthand document of Marvel’s 1960s alchemy—and beyond. Rest easy, Stan and Jack, your history now belongs to the ages. One mystery: In the summer of 1971, why did Kirby theorize Funky Flashman? The satire of Stan Lee in Mister Miracle #6 has fascinated fans for years. What would compel a forward-thinking visionary like Kirby

by Richard Kolkman

to look backward for inspiration? Sean Kleefeld (TJKC #62, page 44) raises the question: “I’m sure Jack’s anger and frustration with Lee hadn’t subsided, but why choose this moment to mock him?” The answer begins when we look at Kirby’s appearances in Marvel comics. Kirby made five self-portrait appearances in Marvel comics in the 1960s/1970. The first two, Fantastic Four #10 (Jan. 1963) and Fantastic Four Annual #3 (1965) are scripted by Lee, and Kirby’s features are occluded or obscured in some way. He’s either turned away, shielded by his arm, or in the shadows. Kirby manages to appear and not appear! This was no accident. Kirby appears next in Fantastic Four Special #5 (Nov. 1967). “This Is A Plot?”—Kirby scripts this, and the unpublished version of “The Monster” intended for Chamber of Darkness #4 (April 1970, see TJKC #13), in which Kirby and Lee appear at the end as unmasked warlocks. Kirby’s final appearance is his mute self-portrait for Marvelmania (inked by Royer) in 1969. The remaining few, assorted cameos of Kirby appeared in Not Brand Echh #11–12 and SubMariner #19. Kirby left Marvel for National (DC Comics) in March 1970. (Let Kirby be free—and find himself!) The first “Funky” mention at Marvel, as Kirby leaves, comes at the end of June 1970’s Bullpen Bulletins page: “Who says mighty Marvel’s not taking over the whole funky world?” (Street date: March 1970) As always, the times they were a’changing. In Captain America #139 (July 1971), we are introduced to Sgt. Muldoon. Fashioned by Stan Lee and John Romita to be Steve Rogers’ C.O. (while Cap works undercover for the police), Muldoon is clearly based upon Kirby—affectionately, down to the gruff exterior and chewed cigar. Kirby has always been associated with anger. The Thing, Kirby’s metaphoric self-portrait, is appropriately named: Benjamin (Kirby’s father), J. (Jacob), Grimm (means “anger” in German). (Note: this issue also features the debut of Leila—Sam Wilson’s dynamite doll sweet sister! Kirby features Leila in Roz’s Valentines’ Day Sketchbook—but not the Human Torch!) Just before Muldoon appears, “The Badge and the Betrayal” (Captain America #139) features a swipe of Kirby’s Cap and Bucky from Captain America #105. This story, featuring a Kirby-

“I’ve got to try to sound more rugged.” Lee wanted Muldoon to be rugged... and tough. Muldoon was a token of admiration and affection (and yes, respect). There probably was no ill-will in Sgt. Muldoon’s bluster, but if Kirby thought for one moment he was being mischaracterized by the poetic pen of Stan Lee, he would have leaped into action—and did. On the 2006 Kirby Tribute Panel (at Comic-Con International), Kirby’s attorney Paul S. Levine stated, “Jack only cared about one thing. He never cared about money, he never cared about any of the practical, normal things that most business people care about. What Jack cared about was his name.” (TJKC #48, page 62) Kirby did not trust Lee, but he did trust in the “Street Code.” This is where that world steps in. You give as good as you get. You’re as safe as you’ll ever be—in a Lower East Side, Suffolk Street fight, arsenals consisted of any weapon at hand. Into this cultural clash, Kirby deployed his most effective weapon: The perceived truth through characterization. Poor Stanley... the lousy things Jack had to do for the street code. Picture this: It’s a summer night in Thousand Oaks, California. The hot wind comes up the mountainside. Jack Kirby pats his dog on the head as they walk into the house. It’s time to draw X-255—a new Mister Miracle story. At this point, I envision Kirby turning up the radio as he grabs a fresh sheet of bristol—Smiling Faces Sometimes by Undisputed Truth throbs through the room... Kirby lights his pipe, and smiles. The inspiration for this story is strong, and is etched onto the pages with an extra vigor and strength behind the graphite. In Mister Miracle #6 (Feb. 1972), Kirby theorizes (not writes—check the credits) a version of Stan Lee as “Funky Flashman.” Funky to a fault, and not featured on the cover—Funky Flashman, well, you either loved him or hated him. Kirby left it up to individual choice: “Villain or Hero—You Decide!” Do you believe what you see? Kirby leaves it up to you. “Funky Flashman” is a major and important statement from Kirby. In September 1971, Stan Lee shaved off his beard, and the Rolling Stone interview was hot off the press... two months before November 11, 1971, the day Mister Miracle #6 hit the stands. Fandom was stunned—and delighted. A tragicomic footnote is left behind by the architects of the Marvel Universe. And Houseroy—he gets a measure of immortality too. The parallels between Kirby/Lee and Lennon/McCartney don’t end at their break-ups. John and Paul traded musical barbs through a few melodic messages to their former better half. Paul: Too Many People (Ram, May 17, 1971); John: How Do You Sleep? (Imagine, September 9, 1971); Paul: Dear Friend (Wild Life, December 7, 1971)—art as commentary. When John Lennon sang Power To The People in the summer of 1971—in Captain America #143 (Nov. 1971), it continued the story of Sgt. Muldoon. With Gary Friedrich now scripting, Muldoon slowly evolved into the Sal Buscema version: More Frank Sutton (TV’s Sgt. Carter from Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C.) than Jack Kirby. Muldoon’s storyline limps along in the background of Captain America #149, 152, 154, and 156–159 almost unnoticed. Sgt. Brian Muldoon is framed, fired, paranoiac, and quickly forgotten. Muldoon’s storyline ends with the uninspired, cliché unmasking of the “Cowled Commander” [right] who turns out to be

based character, is scripted by Stan Lee. That’s key. No matter how well-intentioned or benign, a Lee-scripted “Kirby” character would get the real Kirby’s attention... if someone had handed it to him (ie: Evanier and Sherman, et al). Take it with a grain of salt, but I believe Kirby saw both portrayals of Lee’s Sgt. Muldoon in Captain America #139– 140. Fittingly, Muldoon has an Irish name—like Kirby. Sgt. Muldoon is a tough taskmaster (his only role: serial antagonist) hearkening back to Cap’s WWII C.O. Sgt. Duffy. As Kirby paged through CA #139, his mind engaged, did he spy the Bullpen Bulletins page header? “Funky Facts and Freaky Fables from the Fickle Finger of Forbush.” (Note: the Laugh-In reference dates back to 1968.) Roy Thomas (Houseroy) is mentioned in the same Bullpen Bulletin—most notably for his Brooks Brothers suit and tie, overlapped by his long blond hair. (As for the name “Flashman,” Jack may’ve been inspired glancing at his Galaxy Green presentation piece, where it says, “If you see a MAN, FLASH Galaxy Green”.) Captain America #140 (Aug. 1971) was on sale in May 1971. Sgt. Muldoon appears again in the Lee-scripted story “In the Grip of the Gargoyle.” Muldoon, here, is a spiteful, petty, vindictive authoritarian, who verbally demeans Steve Rogers (until the Commissioner steps in and upbraids Muldoon/Kirby in front of Cap). The Commissioner is a C.O. stand-in for Martin Goodman (and mined from those white-haired good guys Spencer Tracy and Spidey’s Captain Stacy). The Commish’s portrayal would have pleased even Colonel Mockingbird—isn’t imitation the sincerest form of flattery? Stan Lee would not have mattered one whit in Kirby’s Fourth World saga, except for one small detail: Stan Lee didn’t speak for Jack Kirby— especially in a universe Kirby had left behind. Sgt. Muldoon did not reflect who Kirby was: A strong man— not a bully. Around this time, Stan was interviewed for Rolling Stone (Sept. 16, 1971). Lee stated, 18

Muldoon: a criminal hooded hokum—a dry-run for Steve Englehart’s un-hooding of the Secret Empire’s “Number One” in the Oval Office in Captain America #175 (July 1975). A post-Watergate nightmare—Muldoon really was nothing like Kirby. In 1975, after returning to Marvel, Kirby was portrayed by John Byrne, Joe Sinnott, Duffy Vohland, Charley Parker, and Marie Severin in FOOM #11. Kirby next appeared in the self-scripted Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles (Marvel Treasury Special #1) in which Kirby portrayed himself as a scrappy newsboy. In Fantastic Four #176 (Nov. 1976), Kirby is pictured as an affable office guy by George Pérez and Joe Sinnott. In What If? #11 (Oct. 1978), Kirby is The Thing in a retrograde Marvel Bullpen fantasy piece. Scripted by Kirby, it is his final take on the FF and Kirby and Lee. In 1981, a proposed book, The History of Marvel, which would have portrayed this history through artifices of Kirby, Lee and Ditko, was quashed—along with Kirby’s appearance on the cover of Fantastic Four #236 (Nov. 1981)—a mock celebration. Jolly Jack was no longer amused. Over the years, other artists used a Kirbytype to pay homage to Jack, but to no discernible effect or remuneration for the Kirbys.

But Stan Lee gets the last laugh: In his 2015 biographical novel, Amazing Fantastic Incredible [left], Kirby is portrayed as a portly, clumsy, sparkly guy. Seriously, the one-dimensional krackle aura around Kirby gets annoying. It is the end of the road, and of an era. Jack Kirby was a mild-mannered visionary. However, beware: When you went after his character, his name, or his identity—look out! You’d end up laidout in front of your mother’s door, with your jacket straightened. ’Nuff said! H [Richard Kolkman lives in Fort Wayne, Indiana. He is the caretaker of The Jack Kirby Checklist.]

[below] Kirby depicted himself as a young newsboy during the Great Depression, in 1976’s Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles.

Gallery

SUPER COPS

[right] Jimmy Olsen #144, page 7 (Dec. 1971) Solid pencils from this weird part of Kirby’s Jimmy Olsen storyline where cloned police officer Jim Harper’s alter ego as the Guardian vanishes from the series without warning. Panel 4 is interesting in that we see Kirby’s use of flash lines, even on a small scale, where they surround Terry Dean and give the largely static panel more life. That Kirby’s instincts were right is shown by the published page, where we see inker Colletta has taken one of those shortcuts he’s often maligned for—and not only blacked out the flash lines, but the whole door, losing Terry Dean altogether. Strangely, in other parts of the panel, Colletta added solid blacks where Kirby had light spots, and lost blacks that Kirby included. [next page] New Gods #8, page 14 (May 1972) A perfect example of Kirby as the master of power and tension. As well as the shattered but powerful figurework and the explosive flash lines, even minor details add to the overwhelming atmosphere. In panel 2, the rising, curling smoke and broken pipe subliminally add tension in the way a coiled snake does. In panel 4, not only is there the battered figure of Sgt. Dan Turpin—the focus the reader sees— but the broken pole and dislodged wire subtly continue the tension. A note about the inked version: in panel 1, Kirby has Kalibak’s foot in front of the “Whom!” (a sound effect saying “Whom!”?), but letterer Royer covered the foot with the letters. Does it make a difference?

Drawing law and order in Kirby’s work, with commentary by Shane Foley

Twice-told Kirby covers, with commentary by Shane Foley

Wonder Warriors presentation page (early 1980s, but signed in 1986) A bit of a mystery, this one—especially as it sports a 1986 date. As Captain Victory readers know, a similar but differently designed group of “Wonder Warriors” were introduced in CV #6 (Sept. 1982, inset), but those were criminals. Everything written here applied to them—Quadrant X and all. Mike Thibodeaux’s memories (recorded in Jack Kirby’s Galactic Bounty Hunters #1, 2006) were that Jack repurposed these characters to be Bounty Hunters, in a project he never did—but which became the springboard for the 2006 series—and started from scratch to create more villainous baddies for the Victory storyline. So surely, the 1986 date is a later addition. (Perhaps as an animation presentation?) We can also wonder—what’s the “Blockbuster” announced at the bottom? My guess is that Jack was referring to his upcoming Silver Star series, which debuted in February 1983—but perhaps it was yet another Kirby concept that got scrapped when Pacific Comics went kaput?

Strange Tales #141 (“SHIELD”), page 5 (Feb. 1966) A wonderful example of Kirby’s ’60s pencils, where he is beginning to place more and more blacks into his finished pencil work. As the commanding leader of the “Supreme Headquarters, International Espionage, LawEnforcement Division,” look at Fury’s impossible stance in panel 1. Yet Kirby still manages to make the perspective of the whole room work. The detail behind Fury is staggering—to think he took the time and thought to draw a light (or vase?) and small picture on top of a bureau, as well as a picture, complete with frame and inset, on the wall next to it, yet never is the focus lost—and never does the detail distract from the action.

[left] OMAC #2, page 4 (Dec. 1974) Kirby was so clever. Look at panel 3, where there are two motorcycles being smashed apart by our Global Peace Agent. Does he force himself to draw dozens of machine parts flying through the air? No—he does just a few to get the point across. Most detail is hidden under the explosive flash lines. So he gets all the action he wants, and by using those flash lines, he gets hyper-power in there as well. A great example of “less is more!” (And I hate to say it, but how much better these pencils look than the bland inks as published. I find it hard to believe that Jack was happy with this work, especially after the genius of Royer’s approach immediately prior.) Dingbats of Danger Street #1 (First Issue Special #6), page 11 (1975) Numbered as page 12 on these pencils (because Jack’s two-page spread was reduced to a single page in the published issue), these pencils were inked vibrantly by Mike Royer, in exactly the way I felt the OMAC pages missed. Interesting how Mr. Royer decided panel 5 needed more blacks, adding some to the door and bottom left of the panel. Then panel 6 got a bold border. And there’s his great decision to strengthen the

holding lines around Jumping Jack’s head in panels 2,3 and 4 as he’s interrogated by Police Lieutenant Terry Mullins, the Dingbats’ mentor. Real thought here, and not simply tracing.

In The Days of the Mob #2, page 13 (Fall 1971) As I’ve written before, Kirby’s ability to draw likenesses without being slavishly photographical always amazes me. Here, prosecutor (and nominee for President in 1944 and 1948) Thomas Dewey looks enough like the real deal to be very effective. The detail and energy in these pencils show Kirby was passionate about this project—and that he continued to provide amazing work after this project and his Fourth World were cancelled shows incredible resilience.

BRITMANIA

by MARK VOGER

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...At Fame!

Incidental Iconography

An ongoing analysis of Kirby’s visual shorthand, and how he inadvertently used it to develop his characters, by Sean Kleefeld

ecades before Judge Dredd gained prominence as the embodiment of judge, jury, and executioner, that role had been taken up by Ronan the Accuser. And even though Jack only drew him for one issue, you can watch as you read through that one story how Jack realizes he put too much into

the character’s design, and dials it back as the issue rolls on. Ronan first appeared in Fantastic Four #65. The team had defeated an “all but forgotten” Kree Sentry in the previous issue, and so the Supreme Intelligence dispatched Ronan to deal with them so that everyone in the galaxy would be taught “that none may destroy a Sentry of the supreme Kree race!” Although Ronan is featured prominently on the cover [left], the first drawing of Ronan is likely his appearance on page 5 of the story. (Recall that covers at this time were usually drawn after the story artwork had been completed.) Though drawn relatively small, it is clear that Jack opted to make Ronan pretty heavily armored. His arms and legs have a banding on them indicative of how Jack often drew flexible armor, and his headpiece is a helmet that almost completely covers his head, and anchors over his shoulders in such a way that prevents anyone from either snapping his neck or choking him. (Although this also limits the range of motion—Jack never draws him turning his head left or right, and only minimally up and down. Ronan is always shown moving at his torso to look anywhere that isn’t directly in front of him, much like Michael Keaton does in the 1989 Batman movie.) There also appears to be some additional threetiered flexible armor at the back of Ronan’s neck piece, as well as a chevron design that circles around the edge. Neither of these continue around to the front, both ending at the top of the shoulder. In two panels, Jack does seem to have recognized the apparent discrepancy and drawn them in a way that implies a deliberate end to the design, but it does seem a little arbitrary to me—as if Jack designed the front and back of the character independently and couldn’t think of a satisfactory way to transition between them. The designs also get simplified as the story continues on, with the three tiers dropping back to two-and-a-half on page 11, and only two from page 17-onwards. The chevron, too, gets less complex towards the end of the issue. Perhaps more noticeable, though, is the inconsistency in Ronan’s leg and arm armor. The leg-banding seen on page 5 drops to only two lines cutting across Ronan’s legs on the following page, and vanishes entirely on page 13 [right]. It does reappear on page 17, only to vanish again on the next page. The arm-banding seems more intentional in the design, but it also disappears and reappears seemingly at random. From the 28

Interestingly, Ronan’s “Ultimate Weapon” remains fairly consistent in its basic design throughout the issue. (Although it does seem to waver in terms of scale, and there do appear to be a few perspective issues on occasion.) The one exception might be the first panel of page 11, but I think there appears to be an inking error across the bottom and one side and, combined with a definite coloring error if you’re looking at the original issue, make it seem like it has an entirely different design for the head. Ronan didn’t appear again until the 1968 Captain Marvel series, initially drawn by Gene Colan. Ultimately, it winds up being Don Heck a few issues later who tries to cement Jack’s design—as seen on the cover of FF #65—in a relatively consistent manner. Sal Buscema, however, relies on Jack’s first full-body drawing of the character when bringing Ronan into the Kree-Skrull War later in Avengers in 1971. It is ultimately this design—with the double-diamond chest piece, as well as arm and partial leg banding—probably by virtue of Ronan’s relative prominence in that story, which gets utilized most often afterwards, with echoes of it still visible (though muted) in the live-action movie portrayals. Ronan is one of the last new character designs Jack really contributed to Marvel before he left in 1970. He was likely still upset from that infamous New York Herald-Tribune article, but was wavering on what to do. Following Ronan, we see the debut of Adam Warlock (née Him), but that design is basically the Silver Surfer with hair. Annihilus shows up about a year later, and then… what? Tomazooma? His decision to start withholding his best ideas may have started right around the time he was working on FF #65, and that might help to explain why he was more inconsistent than even his usual self when designing that character. It’s a design that, as often as not, is mutable from panel to panel, even more so when going from page to page. But I think that speaks to the power of Jack’s work. Even while wrestling with his conscience and trying to rein in his need to create, and developing a character design that barely even works from front to back, he still managed to put together something that has helped raise even more pillars in Marvel’s libraries. Ronan might not be as foundational as, say, the Fantastic Four or the X-Men, but that he’s been as significant a character as he has over the years, working his way into multiple blockbuster films, says volumes about how even Jack’s incidental work was important. H

handful of original art pages that are known to exist, this appears to be a case of Jack forgetting to include those details in his pencils, and not inker Joe Sinnott missing something drawn in very lightly or anything like that. One other element that Jack incorporated was a diamond-ish element on Ronan’s chest. However, of the three times it’s clearly visible throughout the issue (and cover), Jack draws it slightly differently each time. Initially, it incorporates a kind of double-diamond below the original; the second time, that element is absent; and on the cover, it appears to have a kind of omega-like symbol behind it.

Legal-(Dis)ease

Hot Docs

Kirby’s days in court (or close to it), presented by John Morrow

N [right] Jack’s February 20, 1959 affidavit, outlining his defense against DC editor Jack Schiff in the Sky Masters lawsuit, which he eventually lost on December 3, 1959. [next page] Kirby’s February 1, 1960 of what he earned from the first 15 months of the Sky Masters strip. Shown below is the September 17, 1958 strip, and the April 18, 1959 installment is atop the next page. Both were inked by Wally Wood.

obody enjoys being involved in a legal dispute (well, other than highly paid attorneys), and that was especially true of Jack Kirby. He’d much rather sit at his drawing board and create all day, than have to be deposed in a legal matter. But with a career as lengthy as his, it was bound to happen—and indeed, did numerous times throughout his career. His earliest legal skirmish was over Captain America’s similarity to Archie Comics’ own patriotic character The Shield in 1941. That was worked out with a meeting in Archie co-founder John Goldwater’s office, which involved Joe Simon, Kirby, and Timely Comics publisher Martin Goodman. The end result worked in Jack’s favor, as the compromise was to alter Cap’s shield to have a circular shape starting with issue #2, so it wouldn’t mimic the Shield’s chestplate. This opened up new creative possibilities for tossing it, which Kirby would use to its fullest in his 1960s work. Ironically, Goodman would soon intentionally shortchange Joe and Jack on their share of Captain America royalties, which led to the duo moving to DC Comics. Another favorable outcome came from Simon & Kirby’s 1950s dispute with Crestwood Publications (also known as Feature Publications and Prize). Publishers Teddy Epstein and Mike Bleier refused to pay Joe and Jack when they repackaged an existing story for publication as new material. That dispute led to a review of Crestwood’s accounting records, which showed Joe and Jack were owed $130,000 in royalties by the company. Crestwood eventually paid them $10,000, and S&K even created an unproduced screenplay called “Fish In A Barrel” based on the kerfuffle. After Joe and Jack parted ways after the collapse of their Mainline Comics company in 1956, Kirby certainly could’ve used

Simon’s business expertise to keep him out of legal hot water. Jack’s February 10, 1958 agreement to produce the newspaper comic strip Sky Masters with Dick and Dave Wood was the start of an unpleasant episode for

Kirby personally. DC editor Jack Schiff claimed to have brokered the deal with the George Matthew Adams syndicate, and expected a cut of the profits from the strip. On April 15, 1958, Kirby felt forced to sign a “napkin contract” with Schiff for fear of losing his DC Comics work during that precarious era in comics history. By 1959, Kirby was refusing to pay Schiff, and the matter ended up in court, with Kirby losing the case on December 3, 1959. At the time of his February 1, 1960 court-ordered accounting, Jack had earned $22,364.22 from the strip. While that seems like a lot by 1950s standards, take out $895 for Schiff’s 4% cut, plus legal fees for losing the case, and then realize that Jack had to pay for the inking and lettering from his proceeds as well (as much as half of that total). It was a devastating loss, which would probably explain why Wally Wood

left the strip—Jack probably needed a less expensive inker like Dick Ayers (and possibly wife Roz helping out on inking to make ends meet), just to make it to the strip’s end on February 25, 1961. Simon and Kirby must not’ve been communicating at the time Joe attempted to claim the copyrights on Captain America #1–10. Marvel publisher Martin Goodman convinced Kirby to side with the company, in exchange for a payment equal to any settlement that Simon might receive. Jack was deposed in Marvel’s favor on July 12, 1966, and as the case made it through the legal system, on May 22, 1968, Kirby received a $2000 loan from Goodman to fund his family’s move to California. Goodman eventually settled with Simon in 1969, but mimicking his unscrupulous behavior of 1941, he arranged for the bulk of Simon’s payment to be paid directly to Joe’s attorney, thus avoiding having to pay Kirby that amount. To wrap up loose ends in the sale of Marvel to Perfect Film, in July 1970, Marvel drafted a rights assignment form for Kirby to sign. Jack, now at DC Comics and having been burned by Goodman twice, delayed signing it until May 30, 1972 when again “under duress”, he felt forced to, when Marvel called in the balance on his 1968 loan. By 1981, after failed attempts to regain his original art from Marvel, the biggest legal battle of his career began. Kirby was asked by his legal team to provide some notes about his creations for Marvel, and the circumstances that brought him back there in 1959. By late 1981, Kirby had donated his services for the first issue of Destroyer Duck, to help Steve Gerber in his own lawsuit against Marvel Comics over ownership of Howard the Duck. The original art negotiations dragged on until August 1984, when Jack received a specialized four-page agreement from Marvel containing 14 conditions on having his artwork returned. It only guaranteed him 88 pages of the 13,000 he drew for the company, and he refused to sign it. Popular opinion went strongly against Marvel by Summer 1986, when The Comics Journal circulated a petition among the comics community to get the company to return Kirby’s art. On October 16, 1986, Marvel finally sent Kirby an inventory list of what art they had of his in their files, along with their standard one-page release form all other artists had to sign to get their art back. Kirby signed it and eventually got back approximately 1,900 pages of art. Posthumously, in September 2009, the Kirby family exercised its copyright termination rights on characters Jack created between 1958–1963. On January 8, 2010, Marvel sued the Kirbys to invalidate those copyright terminations, and the case continued through several legal rulings in what was shaping up to set a major copyright law precedent. On March 21, 2014, the Kirby family filed a petition with the US Supreme Court to hear the case, and on September 26, 2014, on the eve of learning whether the Supreme Court would hear the case, Marvel and the Kirby family reached an out-of-court settlement, ensuring Kirby received credit for his creations. H 31

Who the Heck redesigned Paste-Pot Pete?

bad man-agement

by Will Murray

O [below] Cover and splash page from Strange Tales #104 (Jan. 1963), where Paste-Pot Pete debuted. [next page, left] That’s definitely the Wizard (not Paste-Pot Pete) in this sequence from Avengers #6 (July 1964). Which begs the question: Did Jack draw the wrong character, or did Stan call him by the wrong name? [next page, right] Dick Ayers depicts Pete’s upgraded design on the cover of Strange Tales #124 (Sept. 1964).

ver the course of his long career, Jack Kirby created a great many memorable creations. Some will probably long endure, but just as often as not, he created what I like to call his “wild hair” characters. These were semi-comical figures who seem to have emerged from some particularly bizarre cranny of his imagination. I’m thinking of such oddball ideas as the Human Top, Egghead, and Diablo.

For unknown reasons, villains in the “Human Torch” strip running in Strange Tales between 1962 and 1965 more often than not were extreme caricatures who possessed unusual facial features and cranial constructions, and usually sported outlandish hirsute adornments. The Wizard was first and foremost, and Wilhelm Van Vile (the Painter of 1000 Perils), followed by Cap’n Barracuda [all above]. Come to think of it, the mustached Acrobat also belongs in this class of crooks. Some of these characters could almost be viewed as cousins—or at least guys who shared a common barber. One of the most peculiar––at least to my mind––was the early Human Torch foe who originally called himself Paste-Pot Pete. I don’t know what Kirby was thinking back in 1962 when he designed this ridiculous character. For those who don’t know or may have forgotten, Paste-Pot Pete was an outlandish personality tricked out in some type of house painter’s coveralls, replete with exaggerated beret, elaborate ribbon bow tie, and weird chin whiskers, who carried around a pistol that fired a special formulation of powerful paste which was fed by a metal paint-pot Pete toted around. I can’t imagine attempting to rob a bank with one hand on the grip of your paste pistol and the other 32

gripping the thin handle of your open hardware-store bucket with the dangerous super-sticky paste slopping over the rim. That’s what Jack Kirby designed back in the early days of Marvel’s resurgence, and that’s what Paste-Pot Pete attempted in his first foray. Although thwarted by the Torch—or was it the other way around?—the baggy-pantsed marauder soon graduated to grabbing an experimental US “delta-cosmic” missile in the hope of selling it to the Reds— that’s Communist Russia, not the Cincinnati ball club. The Torch foils this daring scheme, but Pete escapes capture. This gave him the distinction of being the first Human Torch foe to avoid prison. Obviously, he was being set up as a recurring opponent.

Readers with long memories might have wondered back in 1962 if Paste-Pot Pete wasn’t a fugitive from an unpublished issue of Fighting American. I still ask that question myself.

The Original Captain Sticky

instead, then neglected or didn’t care enough to have the character’s face corrected. Either villain was hypothetically capable of solving the Avengers’ sticky predicament. This is another mystery of the Silver Age—one that will probably never be satisfactorily explained.

Bucky’s death and Captain America’s long icy suspended animation, and who found himself permanently wearing a hood because his head was splashed by his own unbreakable adhesive, which was a version of Superglue long before products like it and Gorilla Glue were invented. That’s Jack Kirby being ahead of his time as usual. One could say that Baron Zemo is something of a more dramatic re-imagining of Paste-Pot Pete. Anyway, when Captain America and Giant Man became unbreakably trapped by Adhesive X in Avengers #6, the imprisoned Paste-Pot Pete was released in order to formulate a super-dissolving solvent to release them. This wins Pete an early parole. One of Kirby’s most famous goofs in the early Marvel days was the fact that he did not draw Paste-Pot Pete in that Avengers issue. Instead, he apparently depicted Pete’s former confederate, the Wizard, who also sported an unusual goatee and had a strikingly narrow face. But this character doesn’t exactly look like the Wizard, either. He’s much more handsome and his chin is clean-shaven. He does have a pencil-thin mustache—which neither the Wizard nor Paste-Pot Pete ever wore! Although Kirby was infamous for making artistic mistakes (such as not drawing the correct number of buttons on Thor’s costume from panel to panel, and depicting a Skrull spaceship entirely differently from page to page as he did in Fantastic Four #2), since Kirby was as much a plotter of the stories as was Stan Lee––if not more so in many instances––it would not surprise me if it was Kirby’s idea that the Wizard provided the Avengers’ salvation and Lee decided as editor and scripter to make him Paste-Pot Pete

Having been paroled in Avengers #6, Pete returns a month later in the pages of Strange Tales #124, not reformed, but determined to resume his interrupted life of crime. Pete went back to being a solo act. Evidently, he had had enough of the ingrate Wizard during their brief felonious flirtation. Stan Lee was back, now scripting solo. He, or perhaps vocal readers, recognized the ridiculousness of this Human Torch antagonist, and Lee did something about it. Deciding that he was seen by the public at large as clownish, Pete apparently shaved his goatish goatee and adopted a completely redesigned outfit with a much enlarged and improved reservoir for his miraculous paste, which he used to “paste” the Human Torch and the Thing in a credible way. The redesign was so striking that you could hardly recognize the original Paste-Pot Pete under the black face-framing hood, bulky chest plate, and thick boots. The key to the redesign was that Pete now wore a rectangular contraption on his upper body, vaguely similar to Iron Man’s original chest plate, but much thicker and filled to capacity with his special paste solution. By plugging the feed hose from his new streamlined “paste jet pistol” into any one of several outlets in this bulletproof “vest,” this inventive villain could now access his paste solution from a less sloppy and evidently spillproof reservoir. His boots were also filled with paste, and the soles

A few issues later, Paste-Pot Pete returned, this time teaming up with the Torch’s main recurring foe, the Wizard, for a double rematch. It did not go well. Even though Pete had broken the Wizard out of jail, the scientist’s abrasive ego complicates and finally sabotages their plan to implicate Johnny Storm as a spy. This time, both malefactors ended up behind bars. Ernie Hart, writing as H. E. Huntley, scripted this story from a Stan Lee plot. Dick Ayers soloed on the art. Kirby only drew the cover, which depicted the same clownish Paste-Pot Pete he originated. The next time Pete is seen is approximately a year later in the pages of The Avengers #6, when the Avengers tackle another character who uses a powerful glue known as Adhesive X. This, of course, is Baron Zemo, the Nazi-era super-villain who was responsible for

A New Glue Review

[below] The similarities of Pete’s redesign here in Strange Tales #124 by Ayers, compared to Kirby’s Roderick Kane from Strange Tales #92 [next page], are unmistakable.

perforated so Pete could walk up walls like a human fly, secured by the adhesive mixture oozing out of the bottoms. The tips of his gloves were also designed for this option. I would think that this system would cause the cumbersome villain to become stuck to the first wall he attempted to scale. Maybe it did—he used that maneuver only once. A lot of good it did him, too. Back to prison he went. One would think that the newly re-imagined character deserved a more formidable name, but he was still calling himself plain old Paste-Pot Pete. As an evolution of an absurd idea, this redesign was truly inventive—and it smacks of Jack Kirby’s genius. But can we definitely credit Kirby with these innovations? It’s a tricky question without a clear answer. Paste-Pot Pete’s debut story was actually scripted by Larry Lieber. Lee usually provided the plot springboards to these short epics, however thin they might

be. And certainly he would have discussed the idea with Lieber before any script was written. However, it’s well known that sometimes a Marvel story premise might be kicked off by a Jack Kirby concept sketch or pitch idea. Thus, the script writer was simply executing and filling out the expectations of the Lee/Kirby team. And, of course, Jack Kirby seems to have had license to reinterpret scripts as he wished. It’s possible that Larry Leiber scripted that story after it was plotted and drawn, but that’s not how he remembered his early collaborations with Lee and Kirby. However, that does not mean exceptions did not exist, and this might be one of them. There were so many possibilities here that asserting any one as fact is essentially an exercise in futility. These were the days when magazine layouts were assembled using flour paste, so the idea of a character like Paste-Pot Pete is basically an elaborate office joke. No matter. A mystery surrounds this second incarnation of Paste-Pot Pete. His ingenious new rig smacks of Jack Kirby’s imagination. However, both the story and its cover were the work of Dick Ayers. Not to denigrate Ayers, but he rarely showed any inventiveness when he drew Marvel super-heroes. As often as not, he was content to recycle Jack Kirby characters, and when he did create a new villain—at least in design form––it was not especially memorable in the way Kirby’s designs were. I’m thinking particularly of such Human Torch enemies as the Plantman with his bizarre pruning shears, as well as the Eel. Yet we can’t rule out any of these menaces—particularly the Plantman in his revised form—having originated from a Jack Kirby concept sketch. Certainly Torch opponent the Asbestos Man looks like a Kirby design, even though Dick Ayers drew his first appearance. I take nothing away from Dick Ayers. In the 1950s, he designed the original Ghost Rider, a concept so striking that when Marvel purloined the idea in the 1960s, his eerie colorless costume remained unaltered. And one could argue, I suppose, that the unique Ghost Rider mask with its heavy black outlines and blank eyes were a precursor, if not a model, for Spider-Man’s similar headgear. Dick Ayers thought so. Yet Ayers showed no such inventiveness at Marvel a decade later. He simply lacked the genius of a Jack Kirby. But aside from Steve Ditko, most Marvel artists could be so categorized. We know from comments made by people like Don Heck that Marvel artists were sometimes assigned to draw stories where Jack Kirby had already produced a concept sketch of a new villain that was subsequently repurposed as a cover. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility that Kirby produced such a sketch for the new Paste-Pot Pete, but it never found its way into print in any form. However, the matter is not so simple as that.

The Tie That Binds?

Two years previously, Jack Kirby had drawn a story for Strange Tales #92 called “The Man who Shrunk the World!” A futuristic story, the main character wore an outfit strikingly similar to that of the second version of Paste-Pot Pete. Roderick Kane is an unscrupulous scientist living in the year 5000 A.D., an era in which time machines exist, but time travel is forbidden. Breaking into a installation where one such machine is stored, Kane sets the dial for 1961 and finds himself in New York City. His plan is to conquer the Earth by using a reducing gas, shrinking the entire population of the planet so that he can easily rule over them. He also possesses an antidote that will bring a shrunken subject back to their normal size. After successfully experimenting on various wild animals, Kane decides he must use the gas on himself to make sure it will work on people. It does work––but unhappily for him, Kane shrinks so rapidly, he is too small to pull out the cork of the antidote bottle, and consequently shrinks away to virtually nothingness. This is pretty much the fate of Kurrgo in Fantastic Four #7 about a year later. But no matter—it’s Kane’s outfit that concerns us here. Kirby draws him as a super-skinny individual whose upper body is encased in a protective shell, topped by a black head covering that leaves only his face exposed. His boots are equally thick and apparently constructed of the same material as his bulky chest protector. On his chest is a complicated and rather cabalistic design element. The purpose of these appliances is never stated. They seem to be simply his Year 5000 outfit. While there are differences in the two designs, the similarities are much more acute and numerous. In his third appearance, Paste-Pot Pete suddenly becomes as lean as a beanpole, which makes an interesting visual contrast to the shell encasing his underdeveloped form. The helmet was the same, the chest plate and even boots were strongly similar. Yes, there were differences, specifically the elaborate chest decals, but if one were to compare the second interpretation of Paste-Pot Pete’s face with Roderick Kane, you would think they were brothers, if not twins. Somehow, Pete’s previously pinched features have filled out—must have been the prison food. (Or maybe he liked to eat paste.) This brings us to an intriguing question. Did Jack Kirby recycle this one-shot costume design for Paste-Pot Pete’s second return engagement? I would think that’s the most likely explanation. But wait. Dick Ayers inked that older six-page Kirby story. Could Ayers have appropriated it? Once again, it doesn’t seem characteristic of the work-a-day inker to do that. Could Stan Lee have handed Ayers the Roderick Kane design and told him to copy it? While not out of the realm of possibility, once again, is there evidence of him ever doing such a thing? Well, yes. In a 1961 issue of Journey into Mystery, Kirby had drawn a Larry Lieber story edited by Stan Lee called “The Sandman Cometh!” It was about an alien whose giant form was composed of living sand, who could transform his body in order to accomplish all sorts of nefarious wonders.

In the fourth issue of The Amazing Spider-Man, an escaped convict was caught in a nuclear blast radius, and his irradiated body merges with that of the sand over which he was fleeing, causing him to develop essentially the same powers and abilities as the sandy alien invader. It’s likely that Lee remembered that idea and gave it to Steve Ditko, either verbally or in written form, as the basis of that issue’s villain. However, Ditko drew a story in the back of that prototype Sandman issue, and it’s not impossible that he borrowed it. This is the essential problem with determining early Marvel concept credits. Ideas were recycled constantly from the pre-hero era to the early Marvel period. Without written documentation, who can truly assert who was responsible for what? Whatever the truth of the matter, this is one of the most striking precursors of a Marvel character to emerge from the pre-hero phase of Marvel Comics. One intriguing anomaly of Paste-Pot Pete’s third appearance is that the cabalistic black decal on his heavy vest front in the story itself is completely different from the simple diagonal black bars 35

In this incarnation, instead of the oversized chest reservoir, Pete wore a kind of utility coverall and thigh-high wading boots [lower left]. The only element that remained of his reinvented rig was the face-framing headgear. Even there, Kirby wouldn’t always draw in the same style. Staying on-model was not a Jack Kirby concern. When he returns in Fantastic Four #38, Pete makes a big deal of donning a redesigned version of his latest outfit. This one seems to have even more pockets than the one before, including a few on his legs, and the waders are replaced by a different boot design that is not consistently depicted. The biggest new development is a snug utility vest, studded with pockets filled with different tricky devices, rather along the lines of Doc Savage’s multi-pocketed gadget vest. His paste gun is no longer Pete’s primary weapon. In fact, Kirby often forgot to draw the holstered weapon consistently in every consecutive panel. No one ever explained where Paste-Pot Pete acquired his new high-tech gadgetry. Conceivably the Wizard supplied it. This time Pete announces that he will henceforth be known as the Trapster––and so went the last vestiges of the original caricature that was Paste-Pot Pete. Yet even updated, he remained as Jack Kirby first depicted him in 1962, unfashionably attired in shapeless coveralls.

Dick Ayers drew on the cover. Since Ayers inked himself in both instances, we can’t look to a second party for an explanation. But that more complex decoration sure looks like Jack Kirby to me, suggesting once again that Ayers was working off a Kirby concept sketch. It should be noted that when Ayers again depicted Paste-Pot Pete for a one-panel flashback in Strange Tales #127 [top left], he used the cover design of slanted black stripes, and not the more elaborate one. Equally fascinating––not to mention inexplicable––this diagonal decal looks like a simplified version of Roderick Kane’s chest design [top right]!

In 1968, working for the Red Skull, the Trapster tackled Captain America to his own detriment, but managed to escape custody. A year later, the Frightful Four reformed and resumed their war against the Fantastic Four in issue #94. For FF #100, a Trapster android was briefly seen. Kirby never seemed to draw the character quite the same over these appearances. The waders returned. The multiple-pocketed vest vanished. The gadgets were forgotten after their introduction—but the Trapster kept shooting his thick gooey paste with wild abandon. In his heart of hearts, he remained basically a glorified version of Paste-Pot Pete. Over time, the sticky super-villain acquired a real name, Peter Petrusk. I don’t think he ever permanently abandoned his absurd paste-spewing pistol. Old habits die hard among obsessive-compulsive bad guys, I guess. From Paste-Pot Pete to the Trapster was probably one of the most unusual evolutions of a super-villain in Marvel history––or any comic book history for that matter. But it had its roots in the wildly inventive time when Jack Kirby was obliged to create new characters and character designs virtually every week, because the stories he drew for Strange Tales and the other fantasy titles rarely used continuing characters. I, for one, am glad the character evolved. I can’t imagine anyone taking the Frightful Four seriously in those classic Lee/Kirby issues if it had been the original baggy-pantsed, beribboned and bereted Paste-Pot Pete who fought side-by-side with the other three. H

The Version That Stuck

Of course, Lee and Kirby were not done with Paste-Pot Pete after his third humiliation at the fiery hands of the Human Torch. He returned a year later in the pages of Fantastic Four #36, along with his former partner, the Wizard, now calling himself the Wingless Wizard. Pete had managed to land in the same penitentiary as the Sandman, and when we first see them, they have broken out. In short order, they rescue the Wizard, who just happened to be floating up in the atmosphere, a hapless victim of one of his own anti-gravitation disks. Paste-Pot Pete has reclaimed a conveniently-stashed outfit, and while its design is close to the one Dick Ayers drew, it’s also different in some respects. But that’s Jack Kirby for you: Changes in the design may not be conscious or deliberate, but rather how he chose to interpret a character for that particular issue. Ayers’ exotic design has returned. It reminds me of a design one might find on an Asgardian shield, so calling it an Ayers design is problematic. As self-appointed leader, the Wizard recruits a mysterious new character called Madame Medusa and they form the anti-Fantastic Four known as the Frightful Four. Later in this story, for no clear reason, Pete abandons his bulky outfit for a new design. This time his paste pistol is holstered at his hip, attached to a boxy device evidently storing his chemical paste.

[left] From Fantastic Four #36 (March 1965). [above] The Trapster emerges in FF #38 (May 1965).

Foundations

Here’s Simon & Kirby’s never-reprinted story “Phony Check Racketeers” from Justice Traps The Guilty #7 (Dec. 1948). Art restoration and color by Christopher Fama.

INNERVIEW [below] Stuntman was a victim of the postwar comics glut Joe Simon discusses here, and back in TJKC #61, we published the first seven pages of the unpublished Stuntman #3 story “Terror Island” featuring the villain The Panda. To complete the story, we still need pages 8 and 14 (and higher if page 14 isn’t the last page of the story). We also need all the pages from the other unpublished Stuntman story “The Evil Sons Of M. LeBlanc.” Help us finally get these lost stories into print!

conducted & transcribed by David Armstrong [See David’s actual video interview on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrJ8nynNIQ0]

Hearst closed his chain of newspapers, one after the other, as I moved from one to the other. I stayed there for a year, and then Hearst closed them and finally I migrated to New York… ran out of newspapers.

DAVID ARMSTRONG: Where were you born? JOE SIMON: In Rochester, New York, and I grew up in Rochester. I got my first job there when I was 18 years old, for the Hearst Newspapers, Rochester Journal American. Course they’re out of business now, ’cause

ARMSTRONG: Did you have formal training in artwork? SIMON: No, not really. I migrated from little junior classes in art galleries, local art classes and did sculptures out of Ivory Soap and paintings and so forth. Won some junior awards. They gave us lovely framed prints, which immediately disappeared from my household. I don’t have any recollection, any souvenirs of those days, but they were nice. ARMSTRONG: So when you got to New York, what did you do? Do you remember when that was? SIMON: I was 24 when I came to New York. [At] 18, 19—I was working for the newspapers about six years and then I ran out of them in Syracuse and came right to New York. I was getting some art jobs for McFadden Magazines and other… we used to call them flats. They weren’t slicks—they weren’t on slick paper and they weren’t on pulp—but they had very wide distribution. And we used to draw things like teaspoons and other little “spots,” as they called them. ARMSTRONG: How’d you find out about the comic book business? SIMON: Well, one of the Art Directors there was a friend of a person named Lloyd Jacquet who ran a company called Funnies, Incorporated. This was at the beginning of the whole comics business. And Funnies would supply art and editorial work for the publishers. Publishers, at that time, didn’t want to invest in their own departments, invest in editors and space, rent space and so forth. So they hired these little companies to prepare the work for them, prepare the insides of the comic books—people who supposedly had worked for the syndicates and knew something about art and story. So, I was sent to Lloyd Jacquet at Funnies, Incorporated and [they] had a little talk with Lloyd. He was an ex-colonel, he worked for a syndicate in New York. This syndicate supplied dailies and Sundays for the newspapers. So Lloyd went out on his own and he was supplying, among other clients, Timely Comics, which was owned by Martin Goodman and was the original Marvel Comics. My first assignment was just 52

to turn in stuff. You know, they didn’t give a script, they didn’t give me any direction, they said, “Whatever you turn in, if we sell it, we’ll pay you.” I did a western. They didn’t tell me how many pages, though this thing went about ten pages. Lloyd said, “We’ll pay you on publication.” That sounded great because newspapers, you know, publication was the next day. But, as I later learned, publication in comic books was like six months to a year after you did the job. I was new in New York and, you know, trying to get along—that was a problem there. ARMSTRONG: A problem paying the rent. SIMON: Yeah, I had to pay the rent, sure. I lived in Haddon Hall, it was a rooming house, rooming apartment house near Columbia University. Anyway, I did the western. Fortunately, they sold it right away. I have never seen it since, but I know it was published. From [there], I got an assignment from Funnies and the assignment was for what is now Marvel Comics, Martin Goodman. He wanted a strip like the Human Torch—you know, a guy who sets himself on fire and goes out and raises hell. You know, it was okay. I did a strip for him called “The Fiery Mask” and that appeared, that was a late story in Daring Comics, 1940 I believe. Martin Goodman accepted it and published it. I was paid pretty quickly for that, because Martin had a successful operation going. Then, I did a couple more things for Funnies Incorporated. I did something called “Key Man,” which they bought and I never saw it published, but it was published. It wasn’t like today. If you do something for a company, they’ll send you a box of magazines. I never saw the stuff that was done then.

[above] Early Simon photo and illustrations. [right] Blue Bolt #1 and The Fiery Mask.

[above] Kirby, under the pen name “Charles Nicholas,” depicts the Blue Beetle in 1940. Check out all that crosshatching!

ARMSTRONG: There actually was a Batman character. SIMON: There was a Batman copy?

The next thing that happened, Martin Goodman stole me away from Funnies Incorporated. He gave me a big raise and I came to work for him. I became the first editor of what is now Marvel Comics. And then I became the editor for Funnies Incorporated, who was supplying the Human Torch and Sub-Mariner to Timely, Marvel—I’ll call them Marvel, so we won’t get into a big mix-up, because all these comic publishers, in those days, had many titles. They had, what, Newsstand, Timely, all corporations—I never found out why. Maybe it was for liability, maybe it was for taxes, I don’t know. But they all had the same multiple corporation set-up. That’s how I got started at Marvel Comics.

ARMSTRONG: Because Jim Mooney did it. SIMON: Okay... cuttin’ to the chase here, Will Eisner quit the company because he claimed Victor Fox told him to tell some different stories, in the litigation. I don’t recall Jim Mooney. ARMSTRONG: He’s an artist who did Supergirl for DC in the ’60s and ’70s, but before that, when he first went to New York, he was friends with Stan Lee. The two of them used to hang out. He did a whole series of covers for Ace Publications. SIMON: I don’t know if our paths ever crossed. It doesn’t ring a bell.

ARMSTRONG: Did you meet Jack Kirby there? SIMON: Well, Jack Kirby… actually, while I was at Marvel, I answered an ad in the... everybody, you know, we were all freelance people. We were all worried about that, including Jack Kirby. Everybody wanted a job in those days. I answered an ad in the paper, at Fox Publications, who was advertising for an editor. I went over there and did an interview with a crazy little guy called Victor Fox, who said he was a former ballroom dancer. He was about fivefoot-two and maybe even shorter, about 200 pounds. And he was as crazy as anybody could be. Called himself the “King of the Comics.” Turns out that Victor Fox had been an accountant with Donenfeld, DC Comics, and he looked at the books and thought that was a pretty good business to be in, you know. So he moved downstairs and opened a bigger set-up than DC Comics. He started publishing his own books. He did pretty well on them, he—you know, instead of Superman, he would have Wonderman. He would go through the line, have his own titles. Victor Fox was being serviced by Eisner and Iger, and they had a problem. They had some litigation with DC Comics who resented the fact that they were swiping their character, Superman… I don’t think Batman was involved, but they had…

ARMSTRONG: He’s in the other room. You went to work for them, right? You did Blue Beetle for them. SIMON: I was the editor at Fox, that’s where I met Jack Kirby. I got the job as editor at Fox. I wasn’t to use my real name; I was called Mr. Roberts. We ran an ad to get the artists who worked for Eisner and Iger, because Eisner and Iger had quit. They were to contact Mr. Roberts. Victor Fox was afraid that I would leave with his staff, he was afraid that Eisner’s artists were leaving and everything else. To make a long story short, we didn’t get any of his artists. Will Eisner was doing most of the stuff himself under assumed names. You know, I had an assumed name, Will had an assumed name, the artists had different names—there was a big mix-up there. Jack Kirby was working in the bullpen at Fox. He was very young, we were all very young. Jack was patching up artwork, he was erasing pages, erasing the penciled pages, he was throwing a lot of white ink over the stuff. Meanwhile, he was doing some comic strips that Fox was trying to syndicate—mainly the Blue Beetle. He was working under an assumed name there. He was working under the name of Charles Nicholas. There really was a Charles Nicholas, and after we left Fox, coincidentally, we hired him to work for us. He worked for us for, like, ten years. I never knew if he had anything to do with that Blue Beetle strip or not. Jack Kirby was being paid $15 a week at Fox. He came from the lower East Side of New York and he was the sole support of his family. They were all very poor. We were poor also, but I had a suit. He admired that a lot, he thought that was great, [that a] guy comes around in a suit. He asked if he could work with me on some of my other projects. I was doing Blue Bolt, after work, still for Funnies Incorporated. As it turned out, that was being published by a very, very big company, Novelty Press, which was an offshoot of The Saturday Evening Post—Curtis Publishing Company in Philadelphia. So Jack and I, after work at Fox, we would go over to our little office, $25 a month. And we would work on Blue Bolt together and other things, too. In our spare time, in that little office, we turned out the first issue of Captain America. It wasn’t done at the Marvel office, 54

done in our little $25 a month walk-up on West 45th Street in New York City, in the heart of the diamond district. ARMSTRONG: Did you get requests for a character, or did you just come up with the idea? SIMON: We were always coming up with new characters. That was the nature of the game. We had some… we came up with so many of them, some were bad and some were rotten. Captain America clicked, it was very exciting, it was different in those days from anything else. I don’t think that some of these companies, such as DC, were enamored of the artwork at the time because it wasn’t slick enough for them. We were really not in their loop. After it became so successful, everybody started copying our work. Then that was the core of several other titles that we did for Marvel—All Winners, USA Comics, Young Allies, which I stole from a novel, from a series of children’s books called Boy Allies. I did a lot of stealing in my time. I guess it’s to late too go to jail, right?

SIMON: In between, they gave us… they took us out to dinner and decided, you know, they’re paying us a salary now, what are they going to do with us? We didn’t have any ideas, they didn’t have any ideas. They had their editors, big dinner in a Hawaiian restaurant there on Lexington Avenue, New York. Nobody knew what to do with us. Jack Kirby had the best idea, he ordered four deserts. We came back and then they gave us stuff to do, to ghost. They gave us unimportant features to ghost. And we did not do well at that, because Jack had a distinct style and he was very uncomfortable doing that, but we did it. You know, it was all work. And in disgust, Jack Liebowitz—I don’t know if it was in disgust, but you know… they had a lot of money, they were not desperate or anything, but they finally said, “You guys go ahead and do your own thing.” And that’s when we came up with some very significant characters. Came up with our version of the Sandman, Manhunter, Boy Commandos, Newsboy Legion, and they were all very, very successful. Boy Commandos outsold everything

ARMSTRONG: You did “The Vision” and a bunch of other features for Marvel, and then you switched over to DC. How did that happen? SIMON: We had a deal with Martin Goodman and we were getting 25%; I was getting 15% of the profits and Jack was getting 10% of the profits. We were getting royalties like 3 cents, 4 cents, you know. It was one of these modern movie studio-type royalties. We’re involved in some of that now. I don’t want to mention any names. Secretly, Jack and I decided that we would just make other arrangements, instead of fighting with Martin Goodman over the royalties. We made a deal, by telephone, with Jack Liebowitz who was, at the time, running DC Comics. He was very happy to have us work with them. We signed contracts with him, with Jack Liebowitz. It was a one-year contract. We were each to get a minimum of $250 a week, which was pretty good in those days. Jack was getting $75 a week at Marvel and I was getting $85 and I was doing a lot of work—not only working on comics, but on his other magazines. It was a 24-hour job. So, we’re still working at Marvel on Captain America. In the meantime, we did the first one-shot issue of Captain Marvel. So we were working on Captain Marvel, Captain America, and then we had a contract with DC Comics. I’d don’t know how ethical the whole thing is, but they weren’t that ethical with us, either. We got another hotel room. We did Captain Marvel at night, and we did new ideas for DC Comics, none of which worked out. We had, like, Super Sherlock Holmes, you know, and Sherlock Holmes, Jr. and a bunch of other ideas that never worked out. But that was the nature of the game. ARMSTRONG: You ended up with Boy Commandos and Newsboy Legion, so you had two “Boy” groups. Then you had Sandman and Manhunter. 55

[previous page, bottom] The 1949 Simon and Kirby shop (l to r): Kirby, Simon, Bill Draut, Marvin Stein, and letterer Ben Oda (seated). [below] The Vision from Marvel Mystery #21 (July 1941).

[below] Unpublished cover drawn for Black Magic #12. The pencil dialogue was added later in an attempt to reuse it as a crime cover. [right] Golden Age Sandman artist Jack Kirby (left) meets Golden Age Sandman artist Creig Flessel in the early 1990s at the San Diego Comic-Con. Photo by David Siegel. [next page, top] By the time of this 1975 San Diego Chalk Talk session, Steranko was a well-established pro. Photo by Shel Dorf. [next page, bottom] An assortment of Joe’s 1946 invoices to Harvey Comics, courtesy of Heritage Auctions.

in the place. It lasted well throughout World War II. It was very, very successful, very popular, and they were very happy with us. Before we went into the service, we had our own studio in Tudor City in New York. And Jack Liebowitz asked us to concentrate on doing enough Boy Commandos to last until we got back, and we did that. We hired a lot of people and we put in an assembly line, and everything worked out very well. ARMSTRONG: Do you remember any of the guys that worked on the books? SIMON: Well, Charles Nicholas was still with us. He did outlining after I would write the stories and rough layouts on the paper, and Jack Kirby would tighten ’em up and do the penciling. Then we’d have it lettered. We had a letterer there. And Charles Nicholas would outline, in ink, the pencils and we’d all get together and throw the blacks and the shading in, which DC editors didn’t like our shading—the called it “hay,” they always used to say “Get rid of the hay.” And we wouldn’t do it. They had their own style, a very slick style. The hay was crosshatching which didn’t go well with them, but we had our contract. We had a yearly contract, that stretched out to more than a year and, you know, they certainly didn’t want to get rid of us. We had one of the hits of the whole industry there.

ARMSTRONG: And so when you came back from the war, did they want to continue the relationship? SIMON: Unfortunately, yes, they were paying us royalties. They paid us royalties all through the war. It wasn’t in our contract, but they were sending both me and Jack royalties on Boy Commandos. I thought that was great. We had great respect for Jack Liebowitz for doing that, you know. But during the war, we had met people in… that we had made arrangements with other publishers, namely the Harvey Organization, to come back and try some new stuff on a partnership arrangement. ARMSTRONG: So you ended up having a contract with Harvey, to do books, when you came back? SIMON: Yeah, we came back. After the war, the comic business was in chaos. All the publishers were getting their paper allotment back. During the war, they had allotments on paper and they were restricted to how much they could publish. After the war, there was free rein. There was an explosion of comic books. We got caught up in that. That was kind of a disaster. ARMSTRONG: And so things started to get back to normal. SIMON: Things didn’t get back to normal for a while. Meantime, we came up with something new. During the war, I’d seen that the adults were reading children’s comic books. And I thought there might be an opportunity there. I did a few pages of supposedly true romance stories.

Of course, they weren’t true, and there really wasn’t that much romance in ’em. But we called it Young Romance. Jack and I had bought houses across the street from each other in Long Island. We didn’t have a lot of work, so we got together. We prepared this book, Young Romance, before we proposed it for sale or for publication to any publisher. We were afraid they were going to steal it. We’re getting smart. Then we did make a deal. We made a partnership deal with Prize Comics, Crestwood Publishing. That turned out to be one of the biggest things in publishing. We had almost 400 imitations, 400 titles that were copying us, on the true romance scene. Of course, they were very benign. We would have titles like “I Was a Hitchhiker” and they were for teenage girls. Nothing happened, there was maybe a kiss at the end. That was the whole thing.

entered the picture. And by that time, I was just about out of comic books. I was doing something called Sick Magazine and Jack went to work for Marvel. Sick did okay by me, you know; it kept me going for about twenty years, and Jack got wound up with Stan [Lee] and that Marvel Universe. So he did, they did very well.

ARMSTRONG: You did a wide variety of books, though. You did Black Magic, romance books. SIMON: Yeah, we were very successful at Prize. We had Black Magic, we had “Guilty,” Justice Traps the Guilty—which was a true crime story. We had Young Romance, Young Love, Western Love, what else was there? So many titles. They were all very, very successful. Headline Comics. That was probably our happiest time. We were partners with Prize, and we had a nice deal.

ARMSTRONG: You went to work for Harvey, towards the end of that, too, didn’t you? SIMON: I would always go back to Harvey when things got tough. There was always a place for me.

ARMSTRONG: How did that come to an end? SIMON: I think we sued each other. How it came to an end—the Kefauver Committee, the Senate committee was trying to put an end to comics. Eventually the newspapers would show these big stacks of comics. The picture would always have a copy of one of our magazines on top. It was a big “Guilty.” That was how we wound up in those days with Crestwood. We still continued after a while. It was never as big after that, until this collecting phase

ARMSTRONG: I remember you hired Jim Steranko in those days. SIMON: Jim Steranko, yeah, I don’t think he likes me very much. I just heard that last week. He resents the fact… he was just a kid. And he resents the fact that I just gave him the layouts to do. And he says I should have given him the entire job to do. Well, you know, he had no experience. I appreciated… I loved his work, but he had no experience whatsoever in doing comic books. He said he was a magician from Reading, Pennsylvania. He came to my house out in Long Island, opened up his trunk, and a bunch of comic books fell out. It was filled to the top with comic books. I did give him work. I did like his work. Jim, if you’re watching… you’re great. ARMSTRONG: Now, would you consider yourself the business side of the partnership when you were partners with Jack? SIMON: I always resented that. I worked my head off, at everything, every aspect of the business. The business I did was just normal, it’s not… you know, no great businessman. I never had any million dollar deals, any film stuff or anything, until now. ARMSTRONG: Were you a better dealmaker than Jack? Maybe that’s a better way to put it. SIMON: Well, Jack… Jack and I always got along very well together, on both the creative end… every time on the creative end and, you know, in agreeing to any projects, creating stuff. We did very well. Anytime, even when Jack was at Marvel, if I ever called Jack, I said, “Jack, I’ve got a project I want to do.” He would be over the next day. He would always come in with me. ARMSTRONG: Is there anything you’d like to say in summary? Like how much fun you’ve had in this business? You ever met anyone you liked in this business? SIMON: Mark Evanier just said, “Do you think you did too much? Do you think you did too much of this and too much of that?” And I said, “Yeah, probably.” That’s about it. H 57

INNERVIEW

Kirby Interview, Part 1 Conducted by James Van Hise for his article in Comics Feature #34 (1985) Thanks to James, and to Jim Van Heuklon for his assistance in facilitating this transcript

[below] An example of Chris Fama’s restored Bulls-Eye work from TwoMorrows’ new The Best of Simon & Kirby’s Mainline Comics book, out now. It includes a complete reprinting of all the Bulls-Eye stories, as well as all the other Mainline work that featured Joe and Jack’s art, along with select work by other artists, including Mort Meskin.

JAMES VAN HISE: Why did you start doing the crime comics, the non-super-hero comics in the late ’40s, when things were shifting away from the super-hero for awhile? JACK KIRBY: In the late ’40s, I think we had to [shift]. We were shifting away from the [super-hero] and we began doing Westerns… and I don’t remember if we did any crime comics or not. But we did a thing called Stuntman and Boy Explorers, Boys’ Ranch. VAN HISE: Like the Headline comics, that was the late ’40s. KIRBY: Yeah, they came after; after we went to Harvey Comics. VAN HISE: At that time, did you just generally work for one publisher at a time? Or freelance?

KIRBY: No, we worked for one publisher at a time. When we left Harvey, we had time. We began to work for everybody else. Joe began doing promotional work for Nelson Rockefeller. I began to write a few things on my own. I began to work for DC. VAN HISE: How did Black Magic come about? KIRBY: Joe and I were still working together at that time. We worked for Mike Bleier and Teddy Epstein. We worked for Crestwood Publications at the time, and that’s where we did a lot of the comics. We worked for McFadden. We did some pseudo-Archie date comics and romance. They were publishers of romance magazines so I suggested that, what the heck, if we’re doing these date magazines, we might as well do the real thing. And of course romance did very well. Romance is a kind of staple of the people. Just like romance is a staple of any of the media: pictures, pulps, paperbacks. VAN HISE: Would you contrast your romance comics with what followed as having a different slant? KIRBY: Our job was to sell comics. The theme doesn’t matter. If you do the theme well, that’s what matters. At the time we worked for Crestwood, we were also competing with EC, which was a very, very good publishing company, and EC was doing very, very well. They had a lot of good men… Harvey Kurtzman, I don’t remember their entire staff, but they were doing a fine job. Of course, we were entering a very bad period, a very bad cycle. That was the time when this fellow, Frederic Wertham, was taking pot-shots at us, and the comic field didn’t have a code and it couldn’t defend itself, and a lot of publishers were finding it hard to capitalize their comics because they were losing sales because of all this bad publicity. And Joe and I began to have our own publishing venture at that time because it was a bad time. But not surprisingly, we put out some very good comics. And we broke even when we might just as easily have lost money. Our comics always sold. We just knew how to do it. We just knew comics. VAN HISE: Which titles did that encompass? KIRBY: Comics called Win-APrize. We had Police Trap, Foxhole, which was a war comic; we didn’t have super-hero comics. Strangely enough, when we did our own comics, we didn’t have any super-heroes. That was the time actually preceding my split-up with Joe.

VAN HISE: You didn’t actually split up with him until, what, later in the ’50s? KIRBY: Yes. I guess Joe himself may have been soured on the field; I couldn’t blame him. He had some opportunities in the promotional field, which he’s good at, because he was an ex-newspaper man himself. I myself was raised in comics. I’m an editorial man. Of course, I know every idea in the book. So comics was the medium I worked best in and I stuck to it. That’s why Joe went back to doing promotion at Nelson Rockefeller’s; I just went back to do comics. I went to Classics Illustrated where they were so finicky that they drove me crazy, because you had to be so accurate. With the people I had to represent, my goodness, if I had to draw Cleopatra or Ulysses S. Grant, I’d have to know every button, every part of the costume correct, and of course, that’s not my forte. My forte is telling a story. I don’t care whether Cleopatra’s clothes are accurate. I never drew an accurate tank in my life, until later on I began to experiment a little, just because it was fun. I didn’t care about accuracy. I was once criticized for not tying the shoelaces right on a character. He said, “Those shoelaces aren’t tied correctly,” and I said, “Those shoelaces aren’t going to sell the book.” That was my job. My job was selling the book. Whether the shoelaces were tied correctly or not, that book sold. I can’t remember a book that never sold. I sold well, and a lot of other people lost. I’m a good storyteller. I come from a background of storytelling. I do that very well. It doesn’t matter what the story is; if it’s a romance story, I can guarantee it’ll be a good one. Or if it’s a crime story, I can guarantee it’s going to be sincere. It’ll be about people who indulge in crime, not because of any light sense to play around with crime. I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in people. Why do they get caught up in crime? Or why they get caught up in romance—what happens with people when they enter these situations? If they happen to them, they could happen to me. What would happen to me if I was in that situation? Life to me is very real, and so are comic books. VAN HISE: How did Captain 3-D come about? KIRBY: That began with a guy named Busy Arnold. Busy Arnold was a publisher who had a company of his own and was the first one to come out with 3-D. And of course, it was a success. It was an instant success. So the Harvey people wanted Joe and me to do a 3-D comic for them, so we did Captain 3-D. And of course, working on a 3-D book is a heart-breaking experience—heart-breaking and back-breaking because the mechanicals involved are very intricate. I couldn’t see a

future in it because I could see 3-D as a toy. I could see putting out one 3-D book, or three, but I can’t see putting out 3-D books steadily. Because initially 3-D books are very hard to read. I gave them my opinion. I said, “This thing is a toy and it’s not going to last.” Besides, I don’t like to do them. They are very hard to do because each panel might require five or six cels. You might do a hand on one cel, you might do a face on another. And of course, we tried to get as much depth as you can. That’s the trick of it. And the more depth you got into the picture, the more realistic the effect. But in reading a 3-D magazine, you have to put all your faculties to work. 3-D work doesn’t pop out at you. You have to pop in. You’ve got to work yourself and of course, you’re not going to do that every month of the year. 59

[above] Unused cover for a proposed 1954 Prize Comic crime title. The public outcry against comics, and the newly-formed Comics Code, likely put an end to this project.

[below] Original art from Captain 3-D #1 (1953). The 3-D fad ended almost as soon as it began, and Jack and Joe only drew the first issue. A second issue was drawn by Mort Meskin, but was never published. [next page, top] Original art for the cover of Boy Commandos #24 (Dec. 1947). [next page, bottom] Unused Challengers of the Unknown pencils, found on the back of a Kirby Surf Hunter newspaper strip sample inked by Wally Wood [see page 62].

VAN HISE: How much longer did it take to do a page in a 3-D comic, as opposed to a regular one? KIRBY: We did them fast because we always worked fast. And working fast made it even harder. We had a deadline and we had to meet that deadline no matter what the process involved. And if it was a painstaking process, that didn’t matter. We had to do the impossible. So in two weeks, we did the impossible. I can tell you, being involved in the impossible… actually, it’s an exciting experience because you learn to do the impossible in a very short time. You really accomplish something if it’s successful. So Captain 3-D, of course, was a successful one. But I didn’t want to remain on it, and I think Joe didn’t either. It began to be too painstaking and I felt that it wasn’t part of comics. It was merchandising. I was into selling comics. Anything outside of comics was… I mean, that wasn’t comics to me. That was a sort of in-between state between a comic and a toy. Now, comics lead directly to toys, but at that time, 3-D was, to my mind, a toy. It’s not a drawing. It’s a toy

on the verge of becoming solid. So, that wasn’t my type of comic. VAN HISE: How would you compare your work on the DC books like House of Mystery, and My Greatest Adventure, and things like that, to stories you had to do for Stan Lee, like Journey into Mystery and Strange Tales, and thinks like that? KIRBY: Well, they were different kinds of approaches. First of all, the House of Mystery, DC, was smaller. I gave it what they wanted. In other words, I rendered to Caesar was is Caesar’s. If they had a different approach at another magazine, I would use that approach. But basically, it’s mine, my own approach. VAN HISE: Because they were both science-fiction stories and often involved strange creatures. KIRBY: Of course. But the strange creatures would be mine. I can’t visualize strange creatures for anybody else. But I can visualize them for myself. And of course, what you see in a magazine is what I see, and somehow I’m not very good at that. I’ll make something that nobody ever saw before, and I’ll try to read it that way. I feel that’s incumbent on me to do that. So if you see something different or something dramatic, something that’ll strike you, strike you in a way that’ll hold your interest—that stuff is likely to be mine. VAN HISE: DC in the ’50s seemed to have almost, like, a house style. Their artists tended to draw in similar styles. KIRBY: Well, mine wasn’t similar. I never followed DC’s style. I followed my own style. And if you’ll look at my drawings, you’ll find that they look quite different. VAN HISE: Did you ink your strips for DC? KIRBY: My wife inked them. My wife is a wonderful inker. I didn’t want her to ink it… but she wanted to do it and she had done similar work. She had designed lingerie for very well known people, and my wife in a way is an artist in her own right. Of course, she’d never done comics. And her work was a lot more intricate than mine, but she’s a wonderful inker. I wouldn’t want her to do it now. She doesn’t. She has a lot of other chores. But she’s a very capable artist… a very fine artist. VAN HISE: Is that the only time she was inking your work? KIRBY: Yes. The only other strip I can think of where she was involved was when we were dating. I had a story in the Boy Commandos called “The Flight of the Rosalind K,” and she was [the namesake of the airplane] in that story. And of course, everybody on the mission gets killed, but the bomber itself carries out the mission, and it was a good story. A lot of the young people thought upon rereading this, will I ever do something with Rosalind? They are quite interested in the kind of person she is. She’s really wonderful. So when we go to conventions, we have a great time. VAN HISE: How did the Challengers of the Unknown become created? KIRBY: Challengers of the Unknown was a suicide

squad, basically. They were a super-suicide squad— except, being a science-fiction fan myself, I threw in a science-fiction premise. If you’ll remember one of the stories, they travel through time and [risk] realistic suicides. For example, what happened then would be comparable to the A-Team today. A-Team is a realistic suicide squad. It’s a commando operation. The Challengers are a commando operation, and I know a bit about that, but so did everybody else. So I wasn’t going to give them an ordinary commando-suicide operation where the guys just get away by the skin of their teeth. It’s too prosaic. It’s too mundane. So I gave it a science-fiction twist. And of course, the characters were well worked out. I gave them a variety of characters, like you might see in Star Trek. Everybody loves the Star Trek characters. Everybody loves the Challengers because the people somehow seem to relate to each other. I basically know people and I like to see them work out together, work out their differences, enjoy the things they like together. And so you’ll see that in the script. And that’s why the Challengers was popular. In fact, it’s still popular to this day. I don’t do the Challengers anymore, but I talk to people and they’re very likely to bring up the Challengers. Because there was something about that crew of guys that they like. They would have liked to have been a part of that crew. VAN HISE: How developed was the concept when it was given to you? KIRBY: There was no concept. It was my concept. They just wanted me to do a suicide squad. They wanted a strip like that ’cause… oh, I had initiated the gang story very, very early and I was the kind of guy who knew how to make gangs work. So they gave me a concept; do a suicide strip. A bunch of commandos. I’d been in the war and knew about commandos and raids. Commandos are essentially suicide squads. And so I didn’t want to do an ordinary gang. I thought I’d do an exceptional thing and sell the magazine. That was my way of selling it. And it went very well. VAN HISE: Who inked the early stories in Showcase before Wally Wood was inking them? KIRBY: I don’t know. It could have been anyone. VAN HISE: Did you team-up with Wally Wood on Sky Masters before Challengers? KIRBY: You’ll have to forgive me on those time periods. I really can’t say. I just don’t know. VAN HISE: How did you come to team-up with Wally Wood? KIRBY: Wally Wood was recommended to me when I did my dating stuff. And Sky Masters; I went up to see Wally and he was a wonderful guy. One of the best inkers in the field, or that ever was in the field. I gave him Sky Masters, which was a daily strip. He did a wonderful job, while the strip lasted. VAN HISE: Do you recall why the collaboration lasted only through Sky Masters and Challengers? KIRBY: I can’t tell you. That’s just the way the cards stacked. You go to different places and they have their own inkers. And so I would use their inkers. It really wasn’t a matter of using inkers, it was a matter of principle. And if the editor wanted to use some other inker besides Wally Wood, he did. It just wasn’t my prerogative. I never questioned that. My job… I could have pressed on the fact that I wanted Wally Wood to work on my stuff, but I didn’t because I never interfere with anybody else’s job, and I wouldn’t tell an editor he couldn’t use an inker. Not that I wouldn’t recommend anybody. It’s just that I felt that being a professional, I did what I had to do. I was a penciler, a storyteller, and I insisted on doing my own writing, always wrote 61

my own story, no matter what it was. Nobody ever wrote a story for me. I created my own characters. I always did that. That was the whole point of comics for me. I enjoyed that. I created my own concepts. That’s how I created the Silver Surfer, because I’d been using so many gangsters [that] it wasn’t fair for super-heroes to fight gangsters. My basic philosophy, if you want to call it that, is fairness. I believe in fairness. My gangsters wouldn’t stand a chance against super-heroes, so I had to find people as good as super-heroes who could compete on their own level. And that gave rise to the super-villain. Of course, the most powerful super-villains are the most controversial, which is great for sales, and I found myself coming out with Galactus. I felt that somewhere along the line, around the cosmos are powerful things we know nothing about. And of course, I came back with Galactus. He was almost like a god. That’s where I came up with the god concepts. There might be things out there that are ultimates compared to us. I came up with Galactus. I didn’t know what to do with Galactus. I couldn’t kill Galactus. He was my god. What do you do with god when you have him on your hands? So I backed away from him, which the characters in the book did; and it cost the Silver Surfer, his fallen angel. Galactus zapped him and made him stay on Earth forever. That concept is so powerful that it moves me and it sold a lot of comics. People found that same element in Raiders of the Lost Ark. When that feeling comes, it’s a powerful feeling. It’s powerful because it’s a mystery. It’s somewhere that’s a gap that you know nothing about, in which things happen we know nothing about, and of course we interpret them in our own way. But they have such power that they move us. Somewhere out in the cosmos, I believe there are things like that. I don’t know what they are. I don’t know what they look like, so I have to represent them in my own fashion. No matter how you represent them, they’re so powerful that they’ll attract the

reader, and that’s my job. H [We’ll present Part 2 of this interview in an upcoming issue—stay tuned!]

[above] Surf Hunter newspaper sample. [below] Contents page from In The Days Of The Mob #1 (1971).

ORDER & CHAOS ack Kirby was a profoundly moral man. Coming from an Austrian Jewish background, he often used biblical themes in his stories to give them greater depth and resonance. One such story, done with Joe Simon for Boys’ Ranch #3, is “Mother Delilah.” The story opens in a saloon in a Western town called Four Massacres. We are introduced to a character named Virgil, who is described as “a dreamer and a poet.” He is clearly not someone who has a strong connection to reality, but his name reminds the reader of the Roman poet that had a profound impact on Western literature. In Dante’s Divine Comedy, Virgil appears as the author’s guide through hell and purgatory.

1 Those aspects of the world quickly appear in the person of Curly Yager, a ruffian leading a pack of gunslingers, whom upon entering the bar instantly begins to mock and abuse Virgil. The latter responds in a form of verse which is obviously prophetic. Virgil tells Yager that the mark of Cain is upon him and that he will die by gunfire. Here we have Kirby making Biblical as well as classical references. 2 On page three, we see another Biblically inspired character, the titular Delilah—owner of the bar—chastise Yager for his cruelty. When he turns on her violently, the bar’s bouncer intervenes and is shot by one of Yager’s thugs. Suddenly, Clay Duncan enters the fray and knocks the gunman out. Duncan is the foreman of Boys’ Ranch, and the overseer of several adolescent boys. One of them, Angel, is a blond, long-haired orphan with a quick temper, and is even 2 quicker with a gun. He is with Duncan during the altercation and speaks critically to Yager, who then makes fun of the boy’s long blond hair. Duncan decks Yager and runs him and his gang out of Delilah’s saloon. She is attracted to Duncan and invites him to dinner, but he politely refuses her advances. Feeling spurned, she decides to punish Duncan by getting close to Angel. Duncan confronts Delilah about her designs, asking her to stay away from Angel, but she decides not to heed his warning. Angel is lonely and responds to Delilah’s attention, and agrees when she insists on cutting his hair. Like Samson, he is shorn of his golden locks. When he sees what she has done, he is humiliated and feels betrayed. She laughs at his pain and he runs from the house in shame, forgetting to take his guns. 3 Angel is then waylaid by Yager’s gang, beaten and mocked for his sudden impotence, while in the background like a Greek chorus, Virgil speaks the words, “Alas, Samson is betrayed. Delilah’s deed is done. Yet tragic fate still lies in wait with greater woe when sets the sun.” Gradually, Angel’s hair grows back along with his confidence, and he decides to confront Yager in town. Unbeknownst to him, Angel is followed by Duncan and the other boys. A shootout ensues

and Delilah intervenes in order to protect Duncan and the boys from an ambush. She is tragically gunned down, and as Angel kneels beside her in anguish, Virgil has the final words. “And thus it ends, but ever to repeat again in reality and rhyme. Love’s ever new as morning dew and hate is as old as time.” This story is particularly interesting to me because of the way that the various characters can be interpreted as archetypes. 4 For instance, the righteous Clay Duncan is a figure of order, a role model supplying a stable atmosphere wherein the boys can grow up securely. Delilah, like her biblical counterpart, is the betrayer, although her tender feelings for Angel and Duncan will enable her to find redemption. Yager is chaos and disorder. Because of his essential nature, he cannot be redeemed. Angel is torn between these conflicting forces, and his decisions will affect his future. Virgil is the prophet, the literal voice of God. He is the moral compass of the world of Boys’ Ranch.

powers, he is certainly not allpowerful, and basically has the moral instincts of an ordinary predator, in that his needs as a consumer overrule any needs or concerns of his prey. 5 By giving Reed Richards the Ultimate Nullifier, the Watcher levels the playing field, thereby making Mr. Fantastic nearly the equal of Galactus. Although seemingly godlike, Galactus is as spiteful as any human. 6 He abandons the Silver Surfer on Earth, stripped of his powers. In this story, Galactus represents chaos to the inhabitants of Earth. He is a Nietzschean being, beyond good and evil, and a law unto himself. His very existence is a threat to humanity. As the Watcher has intervened in the situation in order to protect our world, he appears as a force of order to resolve the situation.

In many of his stories, Kirby dealt with these issues of law, order and chaos in various ways, using the protagonists to represent the forces in question. In 1966, Kirby created a being that he compared to God. In my mind, Galactus was not a god, but more like a manifestation of the consuming force of nature. Despite his great

In Amazing Heroes #100, there was a section of the magazine entitled “Tribute to the King” that contained the following quote from artist/author Burne Hogarth: “In an age of the exaltation of the primitive, the demiurgic and the Dionysian, Jack Kirby’s forms take on an archetypal quality with their unrestrained energy, brilliant freneticism and synoptic modes of violence. He is the contemporary era unleashed and personified.” This quote reflects the nature of much of Kirby’s work, but is particularly revealing when contemplating Kirby’s New Gods saga. Kirby’s New Genesis beings are also not really gods. The key word in Hogarth’s quote is “demiurgic.” Within the Neoplatonic school of philosophy, the demiurge is an intermediate force between the ineffable creator god and the tangible physical universe. That higher level beyond human comprehension is known in Kirby’s Fourth World as the Source. Izaya—who will become Highfather—and Darkseid are demiurgic, powerful beings capable of great acts of creation and destruction, but they recognize a higher power. As Izaya wanders through the devastated wasteland that the wars between

6 64

New Genesis and Apokolips have engendered, he realizes that he has lost himself to the path of war. That is Darkseid’s way, the way of Chaos. Darkseid’s legacy is negation. He is searching through the minds of humanity for something called the Anti-Life Equation. Izaya must find and restore order to his devastated world. 7 He turns to the wall, which to him is what the burning bush was to Moses. He calls out to find his inheritance, and suddenly before him a hand of fire reveals itself as The Source. Izaya’s staff of war will become the shepherd’s crook of Highfather. He will raise Darkseid’s tormented son Orion as his own, channeling the boy’s rage into a positive force. This is in a sense what Kirby would do with his own inner turmoil.

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Immersion in the fantasy world of comic book art gave him an outlet for the anger and frustration that he would encounter in his turbulent lower East Side neighborhood upbringing. Kirby would also draw upon the trauma of his experience as a soldier dealing with the horror and barbarism of war. All of these life experiences would be channeled and used to fuel his own artistic journey, thereby turning his inner chaos into the order of creative expression. H

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OBSCURA

Barry Forshaw

A regular column focusing on Kirby’s least known work, by Barry Forshaw

Barry Forshaw is the author of Crime Fiction: A Reader’s Guide and American Noir (available from Amazon) and the editor of Crime Time (www.crimetime. co.uk); he lives in London.

Per Alan Roman Walsh on Facebook: “On the left a closeup of a Viking from The Adventures of Sir Lancelot Annual #2 (1958) with art by R.S. Embleton. On the right, “The Mighty Thor” from Journey into Mystery #83 (August 1962) with art from Jack Kirby.” While it’s questionable whether Jack would’ve had any input into Thor’s coloring, the discs on his tunic are awfully coincidental.

Hitchcock’s various interviews. And as all Kirby enthusiasts know, The King was apt to claim that he was the prime mover of everything in his work, downplaying, for instance, Stan Lee’s contributions. Nevertheless, it’s hard to look at an early piece such as “The Magic Hammer” from DC’s Tales of the Unexpected #16 (August 1957) without seeing it as a precursor of later ideas. For a start, the splash panel [below] gives a pretty good indication of what’s going on, with a godlike, muscular Viking figure, fists on hips and wearing a horned helmet looking down on a skinny human character below him holding a hammer—yes, for DC, Jack was drawing an early version of Thor, the God of Thunder, before he turned him into a super-hero under the aegis of Stan Lee. In fact, the entire premise of the story is that the conman hero proves to have access to real power when he discovers Thor’s hammer, which can in fact create rain. But his hubris leads to an encounter with God himself, keen to reclaim his hammer. Two other things look forward to the later Marvel version of the hero: the presence of the mischievous Loki, here a dwarf-like character rather than the more normal-sized brother of the super-hero. But what makes “The Magic Hammer” particularly interesting is Kirby’s design for the hammer itself, which is virtually identical to the later version. The story is drawn in typically impressive Kirby style, and if there is a disappointment, it’s due to the Comics Code censorship of the day—clearly, the criminal protagonist needs a serious punishment at the end, and a few years earlier it would have been death. Here it’s a suggestion of madness, but only the barest suggestion—this character gets off easily after his encounter with Thor. And speaking of this, somebody should sometime put together a book of all these early iterations of ideas that Kirby was subsequently developed compared to the latter. Perhaps the editor of this magazine? Are you listening, Mr. Morrow?

THOR BEFORE THOR

There are pleasures accorded to adventurous Kirby enthusiasts who are prepared to look beyond his most popular work from the 1960s onwards—and these are pleasures that have often been noted in this column. What am I talking about? It’s the interest of spotting ideas and themes that Kirby’s amazing imagination came up with earlier in embryonic form which he would later develop more fully (and more famously). Of course, I realize that some of these ideas would be originating from the script writers he worked with, but Kirby famously took everything that came his way and transformed it with his own particular mindset. Examples would include the time travel story for Harvey Comics which he would expand into the Kamandi universe, with animals ruling a dystopian future. And what about this notion? A quartet arrives back from an ill-fated trip into the stratosphere that changes their lives (as the Fantastic Four grew out of the Challengers of the Unknown). There is, of course, a danger of attributing too many of the innovations to Kirby himself and not crediting his collaborators—it would be wrong to echo the syndrome one often found in the work of Alfred Hitchcock, in which the great director was happy for critics to regard his films as almost entirely his work, downplaying (or, more often, not even mentioning) the contributions of his screenwriters—I have the latter info from the horse’s mouth, speaking to Evan Hunter/Ed McBain about his work with Hitchcock on The Birds; he realized that all the things he’d done for the film would not be mentioned in

WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS?

Censorship can have some strange effects—sometimes a world away from what the people who wielded the scissors intended. A classic case of this would be James Whale’s original film version of Frankenstein, in which Boris Karloff’s monster advances on a little girl to innocently throw her into a river, just as she has been just doing with flowers—but the cut version (the only one seen by cinema-goers for many years) removed the inadvertent killing and just had a shot of Karloff advancing on the little girl—creating all kinds of different thoughts in the viewer’s minds. When it comes to the Comics Code, however, the effects can often be equally odd. Take “The Terrible Time Machine” from Tales of Suspense #3 (Atlas/Marvel, May 1959). This is a classic example of a tale completely 66

with a variety of dials and levers, his entire head surrounded by a massive cushion and a steel brace for his neck. It’s the sort of Kirby inventiveness that we take for granted. However, after the censor’s scissors got to work, even Kirby’s top notch artwork couldn’t save the piece.

PENCILING PROFESSIONS

Anybody reading this magazine will have their own reasons for being a Jack Kirby aficionado. Possibly nostalgia, as (say) an issue of Fantastic Four may be one of the first comics they read at a tender age; or an enjoyment of the dynamic excitement that the best comic art (i.e., Kirby) can provide; or the reader’s good artistic taste—and I imagine there won’t be much argument from people reading these words that Kirby was the best in terms of bringing heavyweight illustration skills to the medium. One aspect of these skills—and one I’ve mentioned before in this column—is the way in which Kirby can achieve things through the simplicity of a effect. There is a panel in Challengers of the Unknown in which Kirby draws the various Challs at their professions before the plane crash that defines their new identity; and it’s fascinating to see a similar illustration in “I Doomed the World” (My Greatest Adventure #17 September/October 1957); the splash panel shows

compromised by the censorship imposed on it. Apart from anything else, there is the absence of weapons—or, to be more precise, the sudden disappearance of weapons. In one scene, the protagonist—who has met himself while traveling back in time to an Egyptian tomb—is holding a shovel, but in the succeeding panels when he is clearly supposed to hit and kill his other self, the shovel has mysteriously vanished from his hands, obviously redrawn by Kirby (or somebody else) when the Code enforcers made it clear that such violence could not be seen [below]. In fact, empty hands from which weapons had been unceremoniously removed were common in the immediately post-Code era. However, the effect is particularly ridiculous in this story, as the whole dénouement clearly revolves on the anti-hero killing himself in the past; as that event is not permitted to happen, Stan Lee (or whoever wrote the tale) simply can’t dig themselves out of the hole that has been created, and the story makes virtually no sense. However, there is a compensation: the artwork of Jack Kirby. Take, for instance, the design of the Time Machine itself [above]: asymmetrical, unlike the cubes that The King so often favored for such devices in this period. Or there is the bizarre mask he created for a smelting scene. And best of all, the central character ensconced in his machine before using it: he is in a strange built-up chair

suitably costumed figures at the highest, lowest, hottest, and coldest places on Earth. Apart from the Kirby design skill (look at the deep sea diving suit which really doesn’t resemble anything ever used in undersea exploration), it’s the sheer economy of effects that convey exactly what needs to be conveyed in a concise eight-page story. As the mystified hero commissions—without knowing why—a variety of experts to explore these extreme realms (and plant enigmatic metal rods in the locations), we are given a typically striking Kirby tale, delivered in characteristic style—and if you want more examples of the simplicity employed, look at the panel of a rowing boat riding a choppy sea away from a sinking ship—the tumultuous waves are in fact merely seven or eight broad lines strokes, which are all that are needed to convey the trajectory of the plot. It’s interesting to note how a level of mounting excitement is conveyed, given that the hero spends all his time at home having no idea why he’s doing what he’s doing, and we are given shots on video monitors of the climbers, divers, etc., performing his mysterious feats. The story’s revelation will hardly be surprising to anyone who is familiar with DC and Marvel comics of the 1950s, but it hardly matters, given the masterclass in illustration we have been shown. H 67

Trail Justice

Kirby’s Silver Kid by Tom Morehouse

ack in TJKC #60, Rand Hoppe, Executive Director of the Jack shot by the Sheriff. Britt is exonerated Kirby Museum & Research Center, wrote about the rare Jack (when Kreeger confesses as he’s dying, Kirby western story “Showdown at Snake River”, published overheard by Brady and the Sheriff ) only in Australia and Italy sometime in the early 1960s. Not being and he and Stacey can begin a life fluent in Italian, I had been seeking a copy of the Australian version, together, leaving The Silver Kid behind and I recently acquired one. forever. That last fact, in my opinion, There’s some debate among Kirby experts as to the origin puts to rest the notion some have posof this story. Its inker has been identified by Michael Vassallo as ited that this was done as a daily newspaper strip. I can’t imagine George Klein (inker of Fantastic Four #1) and its job (#0-254) visible anyone going to all the trouble of creating a strip and then having in the Italian version, while similar to the Goodman/Lee/Atlas job his character, as they say, “ride off into the sunset”! numbers, is unknown to both Greg Gatlin’s atlastales.com and the Now, to the point of all this; what inspired Jack to write and Grand Comic Book Database. The most likely explanation is that draw this, and why wasn’t it published in the US? Let’s start with this was created by Kirby for Atlas, but was rejected for some reaKirby’s inspiration. As I mentioned, Jack was an avid reader of pulp son (see further on) and released only to the foreign market. That magazines and, in fact, had quite a collection of them. In the early explanation is backed up somewhat by the fact that there is also a 1930s pulps, there was a drifting, heroic gunfighter named Solo Jack Kirby drawn Black Rider story, “Guns Roar at Snake River”, Strant (an odd name for a pulp hero), who was also known by the that only appears in the Australian comics The Fast Gun #9 (1960) more conventional nickname The Silver Kid because of the silver and Giant Western Gunfighters #4 (1962). buttons on his black shirt, the silver [That story follows this article.] conchos on his chaps, and the band of Whatever the reason, my interest his black hat, his silver-butted Colts, is not so much why it wasn’t published and the small silver skull that adorns in the US, but rather what inspired Jack his hat’s neck strap. Author H.W. to create it. He was a prolific reader of Ford wrote more than sixty Silver Kid pulps, and loved Hollywood movies, stories between 1935 and 1950. At both of which I think played a part in the first they appeared regularly in Wild creation of this tale. The story centers West Weekly around three men who are traveling to and then Snake River for different reasons, all eventually of them typical Jack characters and all migrated of them related in some fashion to the over to the same individual, The Silver Kid. One is a Columbia The Silver Kid of the pulps (left), and Jack’s version. dangerous criminal, Hank Kreeger, who pulps Real is being escorted by the Sheriff to his date with the hangman; the Western, Double Action Western, Western second is a wannabe hot shot gunfighter named Whip McCall, who Action, and Complete Cow-Boy. Kirby’s wants to make a name for himself; and the third is a nerdy-looking protagonist Whip McCall resembles bank detective named Artemus Brady. All three are searching for a the pulp illustrations of this character gunslinger who vanished sometime prior. with his classic western eight-button There’s also a rancher in Snake “Bib Shirt.” Jack was also a movie fan, River named Jim Hutchinson, his grandand in 1949, Audie Murphy starred in daughter Stacey, and a ranch hand called a film Duel at Silver Creek (eerily similar to the title “Showdown at Britt, who was fished out of the river by Snake River”) playing a gunslinging character named The Silver Kid. Jim but has no memory of how he ended Murphy, the most highly decorated G.I. up there, nor what his real name is. He of World War II, was short in stature, is, in fact, The Silver Kid, an outlaw who but could hold his own in a fight. I’m supposedly pulled off a daring bank pretty sure Kirby could identify with robbery before disappearing. Brady, that, and while I can’t prove it, I’d be McCall and Kreeger (whose men busted willing to bet Jack saw that film in him loose) eventually figure out who which The Silver Kid ends up working “Britt” really is and go after him for on the side of law and order, gets the their own reasons: Brady to retrieve the girl, and gives up gunfighting. bank’s money; McCall to challenge and In “Showdown at Snake River”, Britt show he can outdraw The Silver Kid; and Jack Kirby was writing the final chapter Harmon. Kreeger, who actually robbed the bank in to the Silver Kid story. He was, in essence, wrapping up the two question, but was relieved of the stolen threads (pulps and the movie), conveniently never revealing “Britt”’s money by The Silver Kid, who planned on returning it. real name. What Kirby didn’t do much of was read competitors’ The story is packed with classic Kirby fight scenes and guncomic books, so he may not have known that there was a Silver Kid fights, and in the end, the bank payroll is found, Kreeger and McCall Western comic published by Stanley Morse in the mid-1950s. Stan both end up dying—Kreeger is thrown from his horse, and McCall is Lee, on the other hand, was no doubt aware of it, as part of his job 68

[above] Some of Kirby’s earliest work, from January 23, 1939’s Lone Rider newspaper strip, under the pseudonym “Lance Kirby.” [below] Kirby’s Silver Kid from the Australian comic Showdown at Snake River from the early 1960s (but likely drawn in the late 1950s). Perhaps Comics Code restrictions kept it from being published in the US?

as editor was to know what the competition was doing. In addition, I.W. Publishing’s Super Comics in 1958 began reprinting them, which may be why this particular story was sold to the foreign markets, to avoid any claims of US trademark violation. In an odd twist, the cover to Showdown at Snake River is by John Severin, who also did the covers of the Super Comics reprints, the first of which has a similar (showdown) feel to it; the second draws more on the western pulp imagery. Speaking of imagery, the fact that this story is missing any splash page may be due to the fact that there was an Australian-drawn Silver Kid

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comic at the time (published by Calvert), and for all we know the original title of this story (if there was a different one) may have referred to the end of The Silver Kid. So to avoid confusion, the editors at Gordon and Gotch (publishers of Showdown) may have had one of their artists draw a Kirbyesque shadow figure [top left], using the Black Rider drawn by Jack that appeared in Gunsmoke Western #51’s “The Raiders Strike” [top right] as a model, and added a title and caption box.

Design for the new Kirby Museum Collections website is underway, with thousands of images and catalog data to encourage the study of Jack Kirby. Donate to make this available for historians, researchers, the media, and every Kirby enthusiast in the world! The Jack Kirby Museum and Research Center is organized exclusively for educational purposes; more specifically, to promote and encourage the study, understanding, preservation and appreciation of the work of Jack Kirby by:

Annual Memberships with one of these posters: $50

llustrating the •i scope of Kirby’s multi-faceted career, • communicating the stories, inspirations and influences of Jack Kirby, • celebrating the life of Jack Kirby and his creations, and • building understanding of comic books and comic book creators. To this end, the Museum will sponsor and otherwise support study, teaching, conferences, discussion groups, exhibitions, displays, publications and cinematic, theatrical or multimedia productions.

I realize all of this is pure speculation on my part, but Jack Kirby has been firing up my imagination since I first discovered him in the late 1950s. Since all the original participants in “Showdown at Snake River” are no longer around to verify or refute these ideas, I guess we’ll never really know for sure. Sure is fun imagining though—thanks, Jack! H Captain America—23” x 29” 1941 Captain America—14” x 23”

or this: $70

Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center PO Box 5236 Hoboken, NJ 07030 USA Telephone: (201) 204-0532 Board Of Trustees Tom Kraft: President Ra ndolph Hoppe: Treasurer/Acting Director Mike Cecchini: Secretary All characters TM © their respective owners.

Fighting American print silkscreened in Switzerland 23” x 19”

*Please add $10 for memberships outside the US, to cover additional postage costs. Posters come “as-is” and may not be in mint condition.

[next five pages] “Guns Roar at Snake River”, likely drawn in 1957, but which only appeared in Australia’s The Fast Gun #9 (1960) and Giant Western Gunfighters #4 (1962). Splash restored by Chris Fama, working from the poor original Australian comic printing.

C o l l e c t o r

The JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR magazine (edited by JOHN MORROW) celebrates the life and career of the “King” of comics through INTERVIEWS WITH KIRBY and his contemporaries, FEATURE ARTICLES, RARE AND UNSEEN KIRBY ART, plus regular columns by MARK EVANIER and others, and KIRBY’S UNINKED PENCILS NS from the 1960s-1980s EDITIOABLE IL (from photocopies AVA NLY preserved in the KIRBY ARCHIVES). Now in FULLFOR O 5.99 COLOR, it showcases Kirby’s art even better! $1.99-$

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #79

KIRBY COLLECTOR #81

KIRBY COLLECTOR #76

KIRBY COLLECTOR #77

FATHERS & SONS! Odin/Thor, Zeus/ Hercules, Darkseid/Orion, Captain America/ Bucky, and other dysfunctional relationships, unpublished 1994 interview with GIL KANE eulogizing Kirby, tributes from Jack’s creative “sons” in comics (MUMY, PALMIOTTI, QUESADA, VALENTINO, McFARLANE, GAIMAN, & MILLER), MARK EVANIER, 2018 Kirby Tribute Panel, Kirby pencil art gallery, and more!

MONSTERS & BUGS! Jack’s monster-movie influences in The Demon, Forever People, Black Magic, Fantastic Four, Jimmy Olsen, and Atlas monster stories; Kirby’s work with “B” horror film producer CHARLES BAND; interview with “The Goon” creator ERIC POWELL; Kirby’s use of insect characters (especially as villains); MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, Golden Age Kirby story, and a Kirby pencil art gallery!

(100-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $5.99

KIRBY COLLECTOR #82

KIRBY COLLECTOR #83

KIRBY COLLECTOR #78

SILVER ANNIVERSARY ISSUE! How Kirby kickstarted the Silver Age and revamped Golden Age characters for the 1960s, the Silver Surfer’s influence, pivotal decisions (good and bad) Jack made throughout his comics career, Kirby pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER and our regular columnists, a classic 1950s story, KIRBY/STEVE RUDE cover (and deluxe silver sleeve) and more! (84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (DELUXE EDITION w/ silver sleeve) $12.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99

KIRBY COLLECTOR #84

See “THE BIG PICTURE” of how Kirby fits into the grand scheme of things! His creations’ lasting legacy, how his work fights illiteracy, a RARE KIRBY INTERVIEW, inconsistencies in his 1960s MARVEL WORK, editorial changes in his comics, big concepts in OMAC, best DOUBLE-PAGE SPREADS, MARK EVANIER’s 2019 Kirby Tribute Panel, PENCIL ART GALLERY, and a new cover based on OMAC #1!

“KIRBY: BETA!” Jack’s experimental ideas, characters, and series (Fighting American, Jimmy Olsen, Kamandi, and others), Kirby interview, inspirations for his many “secret societies” (The Project, Habitat, Wakanda), non-superhero genres he explored, 2019 Heroes Con panel (with MARK EVANIER, MIKE ROYER, JIM AMASH, and RAND HOPPE), a pencil art gallery, UNUSED JIMMY OLSEN #141 COVER, and more!

“THE MANY WORLDS OF JACK KIRBY!” From Sub-Atomica to outer space, visit Kirby’s work from World War II, the Fourth World, and hidden worlds of Subterranea, Wakanda, Olympia, Lemuria, Atlantis, the Microverse, and others! Plus, a 2021 Kirby panel, featuring JONATHAN ROSS, NEIL GAIMAN, & MARK EVANIER, a Kirby pencil art gallery from MACHINE MAN, 2001, DEVIL DINOSAUR, & more!

FAMOUS FIRSTS! How JACK KIRBY was a pioneer in all areas of comics: Romance Comics genre, Kid Gangs, double-page spreads, Black heroes, new formats, superhero satire, and others! With MARK EVANIER and our regular columnists, plus a gallery of Jack’s pencil art from CAPTAIN AMERICA, JIMMY OLSEN, CAPTAIN VICTORY, DESTROYER DUCK, BLACK PANTHER, and more!

STEVE SHERMAN TRIBUTE! Kirby family members, friends, comics creators, and the entertainment industry salute Jack’s assistant (and puppeteer on Men in Black, Pee Wee’s Playhouse, and others). MARK EVANIER and Steve recall assisting Kirby, Steve discusses Jack’s Speak-Out Series, Kirby memorabilia from his collection, an interview with wife DIANA MERCER, and Steve’s unseen 1974 KIRBY/ROYER cover!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99

KIRBY COLLECTOR #85

KIRBY COLLECTOR #86

KIRBY COLLECTOR #88

ALTER EGO #179

BACK ISSUE #131

KIRBY: ANIMATED! How JACK KIRBY and his concepts leaped from celluloid, to paper, and back again! From his 1930s start on Popeye and Betty Boop and his work being used on the 1960s Marvel Super-Heroes show, to Fantastic Four (1967 and 1978), Super Friends/Super Powers, Scooby-Doo, Thundarr the Barbarian, and Ruby-Spears. Plus EVAN DORKIN on his abandoned Kamandi cartoon series, and more!

KIRBY COMPARISONS! Analysis of unused vs. known Kirby covers and art, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH on his stylizations in Captain America’s Bicentennial Battles, Kirby’s incorporation of real-life images in his work, WILL MURRAY’s conversations with top pros just after Jack’s passing, unused Mister Miracle cover inked by WALTER SIMONSON, and more! Edited by JOHN MORROW.

THE COLLECTORS! Fans’ quest for and purchase of Jack’s original art and comics, MARV WOLFMAN shares his (and LEN WEIN’s) interactions with Jack as fans and pros, unseen Kirby memorabilia, an extensive Kirby pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER moderating the 2023 Kirby Tribute Panel from Comic-Con International, plus a deluxe wrap-around Kirby cover with foldout back cover flap, inked by MIKE ROYER!

Celebrating the 61st Anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1—’cause we kinda blew right past its 60th—plus a sagacious salute to STAN LEE’s 100th birthday, with never-before-seen highlights—and to FF #1 and #2 inker GEORGE KLEIN! Spotlight on Sub-Mariner in the Bowery in FF #4—plus sensational secrets behind FF #1 and #3! Also: FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, a JACK KIRBY cover, and more!

THE KIRBY LEGACY AT DC! Explores Jack Kirby’s post-Fourth World Bronze Age DC characters! Demon, Kamandi, OMAC, Sandman, and Kirby’s Odd Jobs (Atlas, Manhunter, and more). Plus: the SIMON & KIRBY Reunion That Wasn’t! Featuring BISSETTE, BYRNE, CONWAY, GIBBONS, GOLDEN, GRANT, RUCKA, SEMEIKS, THOMAS, TIMM, WAGNER, and more. Demon cover by KIRBY and MIKE ROYER!

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Jack Kirby Books ER EISN RD AWAINEE! NOM

OLD GODS & NEW

For its 80th issue, the JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR presents a double-sized 50th anniversary celebration of Kirby’s magnum opus! This companion to that “FOURTH WORLD” series (NEW GODS, FOREVER PEOPLE, MISTER MIRACLE, and JIMMY OLSEN) looks back at JACK KIRBY’s own words, as well as those of assistants MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN, inker MIKE ROYER, and publisher CARMINE INFANTINO, to determine how it came about, where it was going, and how Kirby would’ve ended it before it was prematurely cancelled by DC Comics! It also examines Kirby’s use of gods in THOR and other strips prior to the Fourth World, how they influenced his DC epic, and affected later series like THE ETERNALS and CAPTAIN VICTORY. With an overview of hundreds of Kirby’s creations like BIG BARDA, BOOM TUBES and GRANNY GOODNESS, and postKirby uses of his concepts, no Fourth World fan will want to miss it! Compiled, researched, and edited by JOHN MORROW, with contributions by JON B. COOKE. (160-page FULL-COLOR paperback) $26.95 (Digital Edition) $12.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-098-4 • NOW SHIPPING!

KIRBY & LEE: STUF’ SAID

This EXPANDED SECOND EDITION of JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #75 includes minor corrections, and 16 NEW PAGES of “Stuf’ Said” by the creators of the Marvel Universe! This first-of-its-kind examination, completed just days before STAN LEE’s passing, looks back at KIRBY & LEE’s own words, in chronological order, from fanzine, magazine, radio, and television interviews, to paint the most comprehensive and enlightening picture of their relationship ever done—why it succeeded, where it deteriorated, and when it eventually failed. Also here are recollections from STEVE DITKO, WALLACE WOOD, JOHN ROMITA SR., and more Marvel Bullpen stalwarts who worked with them both. Compiled, researched, and edited by publisher JOHN MORROW. NOW SHIPPING! (176-page FULL-COLOR trade paperback) $26.95 • (Digital Edition) $12.99 ISBN: 978-1-60549-094-6

JACK KIRBY’s

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Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #23-26, plus new art! (288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490038 Diamond Order Code: JUN084280

DINGBAT LOVE

In cooperation with DC COMICS, TwoMorrows compiles a tempestuous trio of never-seen 1970s Kirby projects! These are the final complete, unpublished Jack ER Kirby stories in existence, presented here for the first time! Included are: Two EISN RD AWAINEE! unused DINGBATS OF DANGER STREET tales (Kirby’s final Kid Gang group, M NO inked by MIKE ROYER and D. BRUCE BERRY, and newly colored for this book)! TRUE-LIFE DIVORCE, the abandoned newsstand magazine that was too hot for its time (reproduced from Jack’s pencil art—and as a bonus, we’ve commissioned MIKE ROYER to ink one of the stories)! And SOUL LOVE, the unseen ’70s romance book so funky, even a jive turkey will dig the unretouched inks by VINCE COLLETTA and TONY DeZUNIGA. PLUS: There’s Kirby historian JOHN MORROW’s in-depth examination of why these projects got left back, concept art and uninked pencils from DINGBATS, and a Foreword and Introduction by ’70s Kirby assistants MARK EVANIER and STEVE SHERMAN! NOW SHIPPING! (176-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $43.95 • (Digital Edition) $14.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-091-5

COMIC BOOK ARTIST BULLPEN

Collects all seven issues of JON B. COOKE’s little-seen fanzine, published just after the original COMIC BOOK ARTIST ended its TwoMorrows run in 2003. Interviews with GEORGE TUSKA, FRED HEMBECK, TERRY BEATTY, and FRANK BOLLE, an all-star tribute to JACK ABEL, a new feature on JACK KIRBY’s unknown 1960 baseball card art, and a 16-page full-color section! NOW SHIPPING!

COLLECTED KIRBY COLLECTOR VOL. 7

Reprints JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR #27-30, plus new art! (288-page trade paperback) $29.95 ISBN: 9781605490120 Diamond Order Code: DEC084286

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Comments

(Put your hands up—and use them to write us a letter of comment!)

[Since we had so many actual Kirby story pages in this issue, I tried to balance the art vs. text allotment with a little less art, and more text-based graphics. Now, on to letters!] #85 had one of the best lines I’ve ever read in TJKC. Steve Gerber: “Jack gets a little saltier away from his place of employment.” Very illuminating. Would love to hear more about the earthier side of the great man! The cover of the issue is fantastic, by the way! Rich Roder, San Diego, CA [For the extra effort and cost involved on TJKC #85’s “animation cel” cover, I’d hoped for a larger response, but I’m glad you liked it, Rich. Hopefully readers “got it” and enjoyed it—which reminds me. Please keep sending missives my way on all topics Kirby, for possible inclusion here. An active letter column keeps the fan community engaged, and helps springboard ideas for future issues. It doesn’t have to be only about the latest issue—if there’s a nagging Kirby question you have from a previous issue, or just in general, fire away! For instance:] I just noticed something: In Jack’s CYCLONE BURKE comic strip from 1937 [shown below; Jack was using the pen-name “Bob Brown” for it - editor], Burke’s bi-plane enters a “black vibrating mass that flashes across the heavens” (it looks like a giant bolt of black lightning). And the plane is transported elsewhere across a “gap in time” to another world. Jack’s take on inter-dimensional travel was YEARS before Stan Lee ever got near writing for the comics. So it looks like, once again, Kirby (the “pencil pusher”) was there long before Stan (the “creative genius”). Richard Kolkman, Ft. Wayne, IN

In 1969 when Marvelmania started advertising their initial offerings in Marvel Comics—like the first club kit that came with the 24"x 36" poster of CAPTAIN AMERICA #106’s “Cap Goes Wild” cover—I ordered TWO of everything that Marvelmania had to offer (posters, portfolios, stationery, decals, etc.) from the beginning to the end of their existence, from their ads and their catalogs. And I would keep getting differing contents between the two sets of stuff: one set missing this, the other missing that. I would always write and complain that they didn’t send things advertised as part of the purchase, and they would send me other stuff to make up for it (sometimes even what they were supposed to send in the first place!). Well, after the umpteenth screw-up, and my notifying them of it (I think one of my two sets of eight Marvelmania posters was missing the Silver Surfer), they sent the Surfer, along with a slightly smaller poster, on different stock, of the Spider-Man poster done by Kirby, with the same layout, but with the X-Men’s Sentinels instead of Doc Ock and Green Goblin! Unfortunately, over the years this got lost/ wrecked. Little did I know how extremely valuable/rare that item was. Mark Evanier told my friend at a recent San Diego Comic-Con, there were only five of these color test (stat?) prints made, and that they must have really taken pity on me to send me one. As the story goes, Jack did the poster art for six of the eight in the set, but it was felt that they wanted the then-current artists to do Spidey and Hulk (Romita and Trimpe respectively), so those artists actually used Kirby’s precise layout and redrew them! Meanwhile, it’s said in some quarters that Jack never got paid for any of the poster art, and that being asked by Marvel to do this and subsequently finding himself unpaid, as well as his Hulk and Spidey images being hijacked, was the straw that broke the camel’s back in making him leave Marvel, on top of so many other indignities, financial and otherwise.

Anyway, I came across a seller at a show a few years back, who somehow had two sharp perfect reproductions of this Kirby Spidey poster, and I bought them both. Just in case you, the maven of all things Kirby, don’t have a copy of this image in your collection, here’s a decent-resolution pic I took of it, good enough for government work—or printing in TJKC, if it has never been (as I said, my memory is oatmeal). Emanuel Maris, Wernersville, PA [Thanks Manny; we actually ran this on the cover of TJKC #18, way back in 1998!]

Excellent issue regarding the King’s animation work [#85], especially with the cellike cover inked by the underrated Evan Dorkin. My comment is specifically in regards to Will Murray’s article on The Thing and his distinctive personality. It’s been suggested by Mr. Murray and elsewhere that Ben Grimm’s personality and

speech patterns were based on comedian Jimmy Durante. This is a misconception, based upon Stan’s one time comment that was no doubt informed by Durante’s usage of the “revolting development” catchphrase. However, a closer match for Ben Grimm would be the actor William Bendix who starred in the top rated sitcom THE LIFE OF RILEY; this was much closer to the conception and launch of the FANTASTIC FOUR (the last episode of Riley was in 1958) and therefore would have been fresher in the mind of Kirby, who was said to have listened to television and radio broadcasts late into the night as he worked at his legendary drawing table. Besides the mannerisms, Bendix’s Riley is really the one who got “what a revoltin’ development this is” into the popular lexicon; it was a tagline that millions of Americans heard on a weekly basis and was frequently used in the advertising campaigns of Bendix-endorsed products. Bendix was a blue-collar, working class everyman sort of lunk, whereas Jimmy Durante’s persona was a fast-talking, eccentric jive pitchman sort. Any serious fan of classic comedians would recognize how far fetched it would be to think that Ben Grimm is in any way written like Jimmy Durante, even if Durante also had his own comic at one time. This is frequently applied to Ben Grimm and stands some reevaluation, in my opinion. Thankfully, I finished the issue and saw that Evan Dorkin also brought up the Bendix/Riley thing. Will Byron, Princeton, NJ After a long, long break from academia, I recently started a PhD at University College Cork, in Ireland, looking at the process of adaptation that took the Norse myths from the surviving medieval source material to the Marvel Cinematic Universe, via the Marvel comic books. I’ve been going through the early appearances of Thor in JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY and THE MIGHTY THOR, using the MASTERWORKS series, and from everything I’ve read, it’s becoming clear that it was Jack Kirby’s passion for mythology that was driving a lot of the storytelling. In Volume 6 of the MASTERWORKS series, Mark Evanier wrote: “Most of the TALES OF ASGARD stories had been inspired by a small, tattered paperback book Jack had of famous Norse legends. Each month when it came time to do another TALE OF ASGARD, Jack hauled out the book, flipped to the next page and extracted some nugget of inspiration to turn into a fivepage comic book story.” In order to trace the process of adaptation as closely as I can, I’d love to find out exactly which edition of the Norse myths Jack had on his shelves. I know there was a very popular edition by Helene A. Guerber— MYTHS OF THE NORSEMEN—that was first published in 1908, and was certainly still in print at the time. Other candidates could be ASGARD AND THE NORSE HEROES by Katharine Boult (1915), THUNDER OF THE GODS by Dorothy G. Hosford (1952) and TALES OF THE NORSE GODS AND HEROES by Barbara Leonie Picard (1953) – but I’m sure that’s not a definitive list. Here’s a tentative list of upcoming themes, so start thinking, and get to writing! SEND US YOUR THEME IDEAS! • CONSPIRACIES—From Odin’s constant overthrow in the comics, to DC’s cancellation of the Fourth World and Jack’s art battle with Marvel, we’ll look for intrigue and subterfuge throughout Kirby’s life and career! SPRING 2024!

Anyway, if you do happen to know I’d love to hear from you. I’m solely motivated by the desire to give Jack full credit in the creative process. I’m in the early stages of my research, but I’m fascinated by the way TALES OF ASGARD in particular seems to have had such a profound influence, not just on the MCU, but in people’s general understanding and perception of the Norse myths. Kevin Fylan, Cork, IRELAND By sheer chance, paging through [TJKC #79], I spotted (on page 74) the closing panels of the Lee/ Kirby (or Kirby/Lee, I’m not particular) panels from the Dr. Doom parody in BRAND ECHH #1. I was on staff at the time, and working in the office the same several days a week that Stan came in, and of course I had been intimately involved with the creation of that magazine... after all, it had been Gary Friedrich and I who’d suggested it, title and all, to Stan over lunch, even if he drastically altered the precise approach we’d have taken with it. And I am about as certain as I can be, without having been able to look over Stan’s shoulder at the time, that it was he and not Kirby who “wrote” that story in terms of every word of dialogue. Stan loved the way the story came out, but of course he had given Jack at least the general idea (like, “parody a recent FF/Silver Surfer story”), though I suspect he left most of the details to Jack, as had become his wont. Thus, the plotting is probably mostly (though not entirely) Jack’s, but Jack would only have written suggested dialogue in the margins, and Stan would have written every line of dialogue. If any of Jack’s dialogue from those margin notes surfaced in the printed dialogue, it would be because—well, when the end of the story is clearly that “Dr. Bloom” is terrified by the Thing’s new face, how many ways are there to say it? Stan usually went out of his way to avoid using Jack’s dialogue, partly because he wanted to be the dialoguer himself, and partly because he didn’t really care for the way Jack phrased most dialogue. In this case, though, maybe he hewed a bit closer than usual to what Jack had written... who can truly say? Not I... and certainly not Glen Gold, unless he has access to the original penciled/margin-noted pages of Jack’s. Does he? I’d love to see it! When someone who wasn’t there says he is “100% sure Jack wrote this story,” we should be very suspicious that he is engaging in wishfulfillment. Roy Thomas, St. Matthews, SC [I think the Rascally One might’ve misinterpreted Glen Gold’s comments. Glen indeed said, “I think Kirby dialogued much of this NOT BRAND ECHH #1 story and Stan added gags.” But Glen’s further comment, “I’m 100% sure Jack wrote this story” was referring to SILVER STAR #6 (not NBE #1, the ending of which he was comparing to SILVER STAR #6’s). Still, the background on how NBE came about, from someone who was on-the-ground in the Bullpen, is much appreciated, Roy, and your cautionary note is something all comics historians and journalists should keep in mind.] • WHAT IFs?—If things had been different, how would Jack’s career and output have changed? Take a fanciful trip through alternate timelines and see for yourself! SUMMER 2024! • 30th ANNIVERSARY!—In Fall 1994, TJKC launched as a 16-page, hand-xeroxed newsletter. Send us ideas for our Diamond anniversary issue! FALL 2024!

#87 Credits:

John Morrow, Editor/Designer/ Proofreader/Art Curator/etc. THANKS TO OUR CONTRIBUTORS: David Armstrong • Robert L. Bryant Jr. Norris Burroughs • Jon B. Cooke Shel Dorf • Mark Evanier Chris Fama • Shane Foley Barry Forshaw • Heritage Auctions Rand Hoppe • Jeremy Kirby Sean Kleefeld • Richard Kolkman Mike Machlan • Frank Miller Tom Morehouse • Will Murray Steve Saffel • Steve Sherman Bruce Simon • Tom Ziuko and The Jack Kirby Museum (www.kirbymuseum.org) If we forgot anyone, let us know!

Contribute!

The Jack Kirby Collector is put together with submissions from Jack’s fans around the world. We don’t pay for submissions, but if we print art or articles you submit, we’ll send you a free copy of the issue it appears in. Submit art & articles by mail, or e-mail to: twomorrow@aol.com

NEXT ISSUE: THE COLLECTORS! Fans’ quest for and purchase of Jack’s original art and comics, MARV WOLFMAN shares his (and LEN WEIN’s) interactions with Jack as fans and pros, unseen Kirby memorabilia, an extensive Kirby pencil art gallery, MARK EVANIER moderating the 2023 Kirby Tribute Panel from Comic-Con International, plus a deluxe wrap-around Kirby cover with fold-out back cover flap, inked by MIKE ROYER. TJKC #88 ships December 2023!

Spring 2024 (TJKC #89):

KIRBY CONSPIRACIES!

TwoMorrows 2023 www.twomorrows.com • store@twomorrows.com

THE BEST OF SIMON & KIRBY’S

MAINLINE COMICS

by JOE SIMON & JACK KIRBY Introduction by JOHN MORROW

In 1954, industry legends JOE SIMON and JACK KIRBY founded MAINLINE PUBLICATIONS to publish their own comics during that turbulent era in comics history. The four titles—BULLSEYE, FOXHOLE, POLICE TRAP, and IN LOVE—looked to build off their reputation as hit makers in the Western, War, Crime, and Romance genres, but the 1950s backlash against comics killed any chance at success, and Mainline closed its doors just two years later. For the first time, TwoMorrows Publishing is compiling the best of Simon & Kirby’s Mainline comics work, including all of the stories with S&K art, as well as key tales with contributions by MORT MESKIN and others. After the company’s dissolution, their partnership ended with Simon leaving comics for advertising, and Kirby taking unused Mainline concepts to both DC and Marvel. This collection bridges the gap between Simon & Kirby’s peak with their 1950s romance comics, and the lows that led to Kirby’s resurgence with CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN and the early MARVEL UNIVERSE. With loving art restoration by CHRIS FAMA, and an historical overview by JOHN MORROW to put it all into perspective, the BEST OF SIMON & KIRBY’S MAINLINE COMICS presents some of the final, and finest, work Joe and Jack ever produced. NOW SHIPPING! (256-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $49.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-118-9

DESTROYER DUCK GRAPHITE EDITION

by JACK KIRBY & STEVE GERBER Introduction by MARK EVANIER

In the 1980s, writer STEVE GERBER was embroiled in a lawsuit against MARVEL COMICS over ownership of his creation HOWARD THE DUCK. To raise funds for legal fees, Gerber asked JACK KIRBY to contribute to a benefit comic titled DESTROYER DUCK. Without hesitation, Kirby (who was in his own dispute with Marvel at the time) donated his services for the first issue, and the duo took aim at their former employer in an outrageous five-issue run. With biting satire and guns blazing, Duke “Destroyer” Duck battled the thinly veiled Godcorp (whose infamous credo was “Grab it all! Own it all! Drain it all!”), its evil leader Ned Packer and the (literally) spineless Booster Cogburn, Medea (a parody of Daredevil’s Elektra), and more! Now, all five Gerber/Kirby issues are collected—but relettered and reproduced from JACK’S UNBRIDLED, UNINKED PENCIL ART! Also included are select examples of ALFREDO ALCALA’s unique inking style over Kirby on the original issues, Gerber’s script pages, an historical Introduction by MARK EVANIER (co-editor of the original 1980s issues), and an Afterword by BUZZ DIXON (who continued the series after Gerber)! Discover all the hidden jabs you missed when DESTROYER DUCK was first published, and experience page after page of Kirby’s raw pencil art! NOW SHIPPING! (128-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $31.95 • (Digital Edition) $13.99 ISBN: 978-1-60549-117-2

ALTER EGO COLLECTORS’ ITEM CLASSICS

By overwhelming demand, editor ROY THOMAS has compiled all the material on the founders of the Marvel Bullpen from three SOLD-OUT ALTER EGO ISSUES—plus OVER 30 NEW PAGES OF CONTENT! There’s the STEVE DITKO ISSUE (#160 with a rare ’60s Ditko interview by RICHARD HOWELL, biographical notes by NICK CAPUTO, and Ditko tributes)! The STAN LEE ISSUE (#161 with ROY THOMAS on his 50+ year relationship with Stan, art by KIRBY, DITKO, MANEELY, EVERETT, SEVERIN, ROMITA, plus tributes from pros and fans)! And the JACK KIRBY ISSUE (#170 with WILL MURRAY on Kirby’s contributions to Iron Man’s creation, Jack’s Captain Marvel/Mr. Scarlet Fawcett work, Kirby in 1960s fanzines, plus STAN LEE and ROY THOMAS on Jack)! Whether you missed these issues, or can’t live without the extensive NEW MATERIAL on DITKO, LEE, and KIRBY, it’s sure to be an AMAZING, ASTONISHING, FANTASTIC tribute to the main men who made Marvel! NOW SHIPPING! (256-page COLOR SOFTCOVER) $35.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-116-5

CLIFFHANGER!

CINEMATIC SUPERHEROES OF THE SERIALS: 1941–1952 by CHRISTOPHER IRVING

Hold on tight as historian CHRISTOPHER IRVING explores the origins of the first on-screen superheroes and the comic creators and film-makers who brought them to life. CLIFFHANGER! touches on the early days of the film serial, to its explosion as a juvenile medium of the 1930s and ‘40s. See how the creation of characters like SUPERMAN, CAPTAIN AMERICA, SPY SMASHER, and CAPTAIN MARVEL dovetailed with the early film adaptations. Along the way, you’ll meet the stuntmen, directors (SPENCER BENNETT, WILLIAM WITNEY, producer SAM KATZMAN), comic book creators (SIEGEL & SHUSTER, SIMON & KIRBY, BOB KANE, C.C. BECK, FRANK FRAZETTA, WILL EISNER), and actors (BUSTER CRABBE, GEORGE REEVES, LORNA GRAY, KANE RICHMOND, KIRK ALYN, DAVE O’BRIEN) who brought them to the silver screen—and how that resonates with today’s cinematic superhero universe. NOW SHIPPING! (160-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-119-6

TwoMorrows 2023 www.twomorrows.com • store@twomorrows.com

THE

PACIFIC COMICS COMPANION

by STEPHAN FRIEDT & JON B. COOKE

Author STEPHAN FRIEDT shares the story of the meteoric rise of the Schanes brothers’ California-based imprint PACIFIC COMICS, which published such legends as JACK KIRBY, SERGIO ARAGONÉS, STEVE DITKO, NEAL ADAMS, MIKE GRELL, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, and DAVE STEVENS. From its groundbreaking 1981 arrival in the fledgling direct sales market, to a catastrophic, precipitous fall after only four years, THE PACIFIC COMICS COMPANION reveals the inside saga, as told to Friedt by BILL AND STEVE SCHANES, DAVID SCROGGY, and many of the creators themselves. It also focuses on the titles and the amazing array of characters they introduced to an unsuspecting world, including THE ROCKETEER, CAPTAIN VICTORY, MS. MYSTIC, GROO THE WANDERER, STARSLAYER, and many more. Written with the editorial assist of Eisner Award-winning historian JON B. COOKE, this retrospective is the most comprehensive study of an essential publisher in the development of the creator’s rights movement. Main cover illustration by DAVE STEVENS. SHIPS NOVEMBER 2023!

WORKING WITH DITKO by JACK C. HARRIS

WORKING WITH DITKO takes a unique and nostalgic journey through comics’ Bronze Age, as editor and writer JACK C. HARRIS recalls his numerous collaborations with legendary comics master STEVE DITKO! It features never-before-seen preliminary sketches and pencil art from Harris’ tenure working with Ditko on THE CREEPER, SHADE THE CHANGING MAN, THE ODD MAN, THE DEMON, WONDER WOMAN, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES, THE FLY, and even Ditko’s unused redesign for BATMAN! Plus, it documents their work on numerous independent properties, and offers glimpses of original characters from Ditko’s drawing board that have never been viewed by even his most avid fans! This illustrated volume is a once-in-a-lifetime chance to experience the creative comic book process by one of the industry’s most revered creators, as seen through the eyes of one of his most frequent collaborators! SHIPS OCTOBER 2023!

(160-page COLOR SOFTCOVER) $29.95 (Digital Edition) $15.99 ISBN: 978-1-60549-121-9

(128-page COLOR SOFTCOVER) $24.95 • (Digital Edition) $13.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-122-6

THE CHILLINGLY WEIRD ART OF

MATT FOX

by ROGER HILL

MATT FOX (1906–1988) first gained notoriety for his jarring cover paintings on the pulp magazine WEIRD TALES from 1943 to 1951. His almost primitive artistry encompassed ghouls, demons, and grotesqueries of all types, evoking a disquieting horror vibe that no one since has ever matched. Fox suffered with chronic pain throughout his life, and that anguish permeated his classic 1950s cover illustrations and his lone story for CHILLING TALES, putting them at the top of all pre-code horror comic enthusiasts’ want lists. He brought his evocative storytelling skills (and an almost BASIL WOLVERTON-esque ink line over other artists) to ATLAS/MARVEL horror comics of the 1950s and ’60s, but since Fox never gave an interview, this unique creator remained largely unheralded—until now! Comic art historian ROGER HILL finally tells Fox’s life story, through an informative biographical essay, augmented with an insightful introduction by FROM THE TOMB editor PETER NORMANTON. This FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER also showcases all of the artist’s WEIRD TALES covers and interior illustrations, and a special Atlas Comics gallery with examples of his inking over GIL KANE, LARRY LIEBER, and others. Plus, there’s a wealth of other delightfully disturbing images by this grand master of horror—many previously unpublished and reproduced from his original paintings and art—sure to make an indelible imprint on a new legion of fans. SHIPS SEPTEMBER 2023! (128-page COLOR HARDCOVER) $29.95 • (Digital Edition) $15.99 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-120-2

New from TwoMorrows!

RETROFAN #28

ALTER EGO #183

ALTER EGO #184

ALTER EGO #185

BRICKJOURNAL #82

Golden/Silver/Bronze Age artist IRV NOVICK (Shield, Steel Sterling, Batman, The Flash, and DC war stories) is immortalized by JOHN COATES and DEWEY CASSELL. Interviews with Irv and family members, tributes by DENNY O’NEIL, MARK EVANIER, and PAUL LEVITZ, Irv’s involvement with painter ROY LICHTENSTEIN (who used Novick’s work in his paintings), Mr. Monster, FCA, and more!

Known as one of the finest inkers in comics history, the late TOM PALMER was also an accomplished penciler and painter, as you’ll see in an-depth interview with Palmer by ALEX GRAND and JIM THOMPSON. Learn his approach to, and thoughts on, working with NEAL ADAMS, GENE COLAN, JOHN BUSCEMA, and others who helped define the Marvel Universe. Plus Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, FCA, and more!

Presenting MARK CARLSON-GHOST’s stupendous study of the 1940s NOVELTY COMICS GROUP—with heroes like Blue Bolt, Target and the Targeteers, White Streak, Spacehawk, etc., produced by such Golden Age super-stars as JOE SIMON & JACK KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, BASIL WOLVERTON, et al. Plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, FCA, and more!

Celebrating Disney’s 100th anniversary in LEGO! Disney Castles with MARTIN HARRIS and DISNEYBRICK, magical builds by JOHN RUDY and editor JOE MENO, instructions to build characters, plus: Nerding Out with BRICKNERD, AFOLs by GREG HYLAND, step-by-step “You Can Build It” instructions by CHRISTOPHER DECK, and Minifigure Customization with JARED K. BURKS!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Now shipping!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Oct. 2023

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Dec. 2023

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Oct. 2023

The BRITISH INVASION of the Sixties, interview with Bond Girl TRINA PARKS, The Mighty Hercules, Horror Hostess MOONA LISA, World’s Greatest Super Friends, TV Guide Fall Previews, the Frito Bandito, a Popeye Super Collector, and more fun, fab features! Featuring columns by ANDY MANGELS, WILL MURRAY, SCOTT SAAVEDRA, SCOTT SHAW, and MARK VOGER! Edited by MICHAEL EURY.

BACK ISSUE #147

BACK ISSUE #148

COMIC BOOK CREATOR #31 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #32

Great Hera, it’s the 20TH ANNIVERSARY OF BACK ISSUE, featuring a tribute to the late, great GEORGE PÉREZ! Wonder Woman: The George Pérez Years, Pérez’s 20 Greatest Hits of the Bronze Age, Pérez’s fanzine days, a Pérez remembrance by MARV WOLFMAN, a Wonder Woman interview with MINDY NEWELL, and more! With a stunning Wonder Woman cover by Pérez!

DC SUPER-STARS OF SPACE! Adam Strange in the Bronze Age (with RICHARD BRUNING & ANDY KUBERT), From Beyond the Unknown, the Fabulous World of Krypton, Vartox, a Mongul history, the Omega Men, and more! Featuring CARY BATES, DAVE GIBBONS, DAN JURGENS, CURT SWAN, PETER J. TOMASI, MARV WOLFMAN, and more! Cover by CARMINE INFANTINO & MURPHY ANDERSON!

Career-spanning interview with Bane’s co-creator GRAHAM NOLAN! Plus, STAN LEE’s Carnegie Hall debacle of 1972, the Golden Age Quality Comics’ work of FRANK BORTH (Phantom Lady, Spider Widow), and GREG BIGA talks with ex-DC Comics co-publisher DAN DIDIO on his current career as writer/creator on the FRANK MILLER PRESENTS comics line, as well as that new comics line’s publisher!

WILLIAM STOUT is interviewed about his illustration and comics work, as well as his association with DINOSAURS publisher BYRON PREISS, the visionary packager/ publisher who is also celebrated in this double-header issue. Included is the only comprehensive interview ever conducted with PREISS, plus a huge biographical essay. Also MIKE DEODATO on his early years and FRANK BORTH on Treasure Chest!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Now shipping!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Oct. 2023

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Nov. 2023

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Now shipping!

(84-page FULL-COLOR magazine) $10.95 (Digital Edition) $4.99 • Ships Fall 2023

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BACK ISSUE #146

MEN WITHOUT FEAR, featuring Daredevil’s swinging ’70s adventures! Plus: Challengers of the Unknown in the Bronze Age, JEPH LOEB interview about his Challs and DD projects with TIM SALE, Sinestro and Mr. Fear histories, superheroes with disabilities, and... Who Is Hal Jordan? Featuring CONWAY, ENGLEHART, McKENZIE, ROZAKIS, STATON, THOMAS, WOLFMAN, & more! GENE COLAN cover!