Beyond Parazine Issue 3

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Issue 3, May 2014 The digital magazine for Paranormal Investigators Compiled and edited monthly by Past Investigations



Welcome Matt Hall Interview Team Feature, Ghost Quest Symptoms of Spiritual Awakening Sleep Paralysis ‘Haunted’ York Review A Short History of EVP’s Your Questions Clifton Hall by Lee Roberts Types of Haunting Chris Dedman Interview England's Haunted Castles Paranormal Unity

Beyond Parazine is brought to you by Past Investigations To advertise with us at unbeatable rates please email beyondparazine@hotmail.com


We would firstly like to thank everyone who kindly contributes to this magazine, we are only a small publication at the moment but we are aiming high and know we will get there with everyone's support, it really does mean a lot. It is our aim to bring you news, stories and reviews on all things paranormal, not just ghosts but in the coming issues we will be broadening our content to include all forms of the unknown, myths and legends etc. Beyond Parazine is for you, your views count so we value any input be it good or bad, please email us with your comments and suggestions, we will take any comments seriously as we endeavour to improve the magazine month by month until we are the No. 1 paranormal publication. We believe that paranormal unity can only benefit us all, it is our aim to help support this in any way we can, by us all working together we can help each other and take this field forward.

That is another aim we have for the magazine, to encourage unity. This month we are starting a new Q&A section, we welcome your questions which will then be answered by a experienced and respected member of the paranormal community. Remember we want to write about what you want to read about so email us with any ideas or suggestions for an article Once again we thank you all for your support and hope you continue to enjoy reading our magazine.

Sean, Past Investigations

Email us with all your views, ideas and suggestions, together we will strive to be the best magazine for you our valued customers beyondparazine@hotmail.com


We are very pleased to be able to bring you a short interview this month with the driving force behind ParaconUk, Matt Hall. Matt is a serving U.S Soldier who is based in the U.K, he is also the lead investigator with Serious Paranormal Investigations (S.P.I) a team comprised of serving U.S military personal and British investigators. The announcement of ParaconUK has been met with excitement by the paranormal community and has created quite a buzz with everyone looking forward to the event. ParaconUK is being held at Derby Conference Centre on 22nd and 23rd of November, two extremely worthwhile charities will be supported by the event

‘’Wounded Warrior’’ and ‘’Troop Aid’’ provide care for servicemen and women from the U.S & U.K and their families, ParaconUK is being held under the banner of ‘’Unite To Honour’’ There is an amazing line up of paranormal celebrities who are appearing at the event from both sides of The Atlantic, there will be lectures, workshops, stalls, auctions for some one off items donated and signed by the celebrities, a weekend jammed full of things to do for all the family and not to be missed!!


What initially made you decide to organize ParaconUK? It all started when I wanted to treat my team to the Paracon experience. I searched to find one here in the UK or the equivalent and found there wasn’t one. That’s when I made the decision to get the plan together and get the ball rolling. Were you surprised at the response you have received? I was initially told by some of my British friends that this would not get the same support that the people in the US give. So I initially placed the PARACON UK at a smaller venue with the idea to just get this year’s event introduced into the UK paranormal community. Then once we announced to our members what we were doing, we were flooded with people loving this idea. We have since moved the venue to the current location at the Derby Conference Center. Plus, the US/UK paranormal elite have jumped on board to support our cause. This has been a huge blessing and an enormous honor to be charged with.

Matt Hall S.P.I Lead Investigator & ParaconUK

What are your hopes for ParaconUK? We are looking to provide an annual event that people can rely on to bring all the paranormal sciences together and express their views along with getting the education out there. Also the event will bring the all around Paracon experience that allows you to meet others with the same interest and create an environment for respectable and constructive interaction. PARACON UK also gives the fan base for our celebrity supporters the chance to


Meet them and attend their lectures, as well as get that one-toone moment they are looking for. PARACON UK will be an annual event that will continue to support great charities and give the largest selection of all things paranormal in one location. Is paranormal Unity something that you are passionate about? While there are those out there that disagree with the idea of unity in the paranormal community; I feel that there is a need for it. I express the need for unity with the idea in mind of preserving the integrity of respectful constructive debate. There needs to be a community united with regimented information, supporting the qualified efforts being made to research the paranormal sciences and show the public we are together. This will help to educate the public and prevent the automatic dismissal of paranormal ideas. Unity is power and that is why we made the commitment to campaign “UNITE TO HONOUR�.

Bringing the community together for a great cause and allow communication to flow. What got you interested in the paranormal? I like many had some experiences as a child that will remain private. However, they sparked my interest. Since I was a teenager, I have investigated the paranormal one way or another. As a devoted Christian, I also found myself looking at the science with a different perspective. After several personal experiences I knew that I needed to utilize my opportunities from my military career and those I have been blessed to work with and form the team I have today. Everything that came after it has been a bonus and I will continue to devote all efforts to help those with unexplained experiences and add to the research of the science.

Keep up with the latest on ParaconUK at www.facebook.com/paraconuk


Paranormal research team from North Yorkshire Ben Niall (Lead Investigator) had been investigating for 9 years prior to forming Ghost Quest and is extremely passionate about Investigating the paranormal and has been ghost obsessed since a child. The team has been together for 2 years.

Ben Niall, Ghost Quest Lead Investigator

The team film lots of footage at each location they investigate over a whole day and sometimes longer, not just the investigation but the history of the location and the surroundings, this is then painstakingly edited to make documentary episodes for YouTube. Ghost Quest are a dedicated paranormal investigation team who enjoy what they do and incorporate all the latest technology available during their investigations.


1) Matthew - Investigator / AV tech . 2) Ben Niall - Lead Investigator (20y) / Producer 3) Josh - Investigator 4) Daniel - Film hand / AV Teach.

Looking to prove or debunk paranormal claims across the UK and hopefully overseas. Looking for new locations to Investigate and film at GhostQuestbookings@hotmail.com Can be found under Ghost Quest on Youtube, Google+, Facebook and @benredzz on twitter.


Symptoms of Spiritual Awakening By Kevin Cohen spiritualist medium 1. Changing sleep patterns: Restlessness, hot feet, waking up two or three times a night. Feeling tired after you wake up and sleepy off and on during the day. There is something called the Triad Sleep Pattern that occurs for many: you sleep for about 2-3 hours, wake up, go back to sleep for another couple of hours, wake again, and go back to sleep again. For others, the sleep requirements have changed. You can get by on less sleep. Lately I have been experiencing huge waves of energy running into my body from the crown. It feels good, but it keeps me awake for a long time, then subsides. Advice: Get used to it. Make peace with it and don’t worry about getting enough sleep (which often causes more insomnia). You will be able to make it through the day if you hold thoughts of getting just what you

need. You can also request your Higher Power to give you a break now and then and give you a good, deep night’s sleep. If you can’t go back to sleep right away, use the waking moments to meditate, read poetry, write in your journal or look at the moon. Your body will adjust to the new pattern. 2. Activity at the crown of the head: Tingling, itching, prickly, crawling sensations along the scalp and/or down the spine.


A sense of energy vibrating on top of the head, as if energy is erupting from the head in a shower. Also the sensation of energy pouring in through the crown, described as “sprinkles�. This may also be experienced as pressure on the crown, as if someone is pushing his/her finger into the center of your head. As I mentioned in #1, I have been experiencing huge downloads of energy through the crown. In the past, I have felt more generalized pressure, as if my head is in a gentle vise. One man related that his hair stood on end and his body was covered with goosebumps. Advice: This is nothing to be alarmed about. What you are experiencing is an opening of the crown chakra. The sensations mean that you are opening up to receive divine energy.

3. Sudden waves of emotion. Crying at the drop of a hat. Feeling suddenly angry or sad with little provocation. Or inexplicably depressed. Then very happy. Emotional roller coaster. There is often a pressure or sense of emotions congested in the heart chakra (the middle of the chest). This is not to be confused with the heart, which is located to the left of the heart chakra. Advice: Accept your feelings as they come up and let them go. Go directly to your heart chakra and feel the emotion. Expand it outward to your all your fields and breathe


deeply from the belly all the way up to your upper chest. Just feel the feeling and let it evaporate on its own. Don’t direct the emotions at anyone. You are cleaning out your past. If you want some help with this, say out loud that you intend to release all these old issues and ask your Higher Power to help you. You can also ask Grace Elohim to help you release with ease and gentleness. Be grateful that your body is releasing these emotions and not holding onto them inside where they can do harm. One source suggests that depression is linked to letting go of relationships to people, work, etc. that no longer match us and our frequencies.

When we feel guilty about letting go of these relationships, depression helps us medicate that pain. 4. Old “stuff” Seems to be coming up, as described above, and the people with whom you need to work it out (or their clones) appear in your life. Completion issues. Or perhaps you need to work through issues of self-worth, abundance, creativity, addictions, etc. The resources or people you need to help you move through these issues start to appear. Advice: Same as #3. Additionally, don’t get too involved in analyzing these issues. Examining them too much will simply cycle you back through them over and over again at deeper and deeper levels. Get professional help if you need to and walk through it. Do not try to avoid them or disassociate yourself from them. Embrace whatever comes up and thank it for helping you move ahead.


Thank your Higher Power for giving you the opportunity to release these issues. Remember, you don’t want these issues to stay stuck in your body. 5. Changes in weight. The weight gain in the US population is phenomenal. Other people may be losing weight. We often gain weight because many fears we have suppressed are now coming up to the surface to be healed. We react by building up a defense. We also attempt to ground ourselves or provide bulk against increasing frequencies in our bodies.

Advice: Don’t freak out, but just accept it as a symptom of where you are right now. You will release/gain the weight when all your fears have been integrated. Release your anxiety about this. Then you might find it easier to lose/gain the weight eventually. Exercise. Before eating, try this: Sit at the table with an attractive place setting. Light a candle. Enjoy how the food looks. Place your dominant hand over your heart and bless the food. Tell your body that you are going to use the food to richly nourish it, but that you are not going to use the food to fulfill your emotional hungers. Then pass your hand from left to right over the food and bless it. You may notice that the food feels warm to your hand even if the food is cold– I like to think that the food is good for me when it feels warm and nourishing to my hand. I have also noticed that when I practice blessing the food, I don’t eat as much. It is important not to let yourself off the hook when you forget to bless the food


7. Food intolerance, allergies you never had before: As you grow more spiritual, you are more sensitive to everything around you. Your body will tell you what it can no longer tolerate, as if it, too, is sloughing off what doesn’t serve it anymore. You might be cleansing yourself of toxins. 6. Changes in eating habits: Strange Some people find they often have cravings and odd food choices. a white residue in their mouth, Some find they are not as hungry much like that of runners at the as they used to be. Or hungrier. end of a race. Advice: An Advice: Don’t deny what your acupuncturist told me that this body tells you it needs. If you are film can be removed by sloshing 2 not sure, you might try muscletablespoons of cold-pressed olive testing before you chose a food to oil in your mouth for 10-15 see if it’s what your body wants. minutes (don’t swallow, whatever Also try blessing the food as you do), then spitting it out into described in #5. the toilet — not the sink, before you eat. If I’ve forgotten and I’ve nearly finished eating, I bless the food anyway. That way I don’t slip out of the habit. Another thing you can do is to stay present while eating — don’t watch TV or read. Heartily enjoy what blessings are before you.


for you just removed toxins from your body and don’t want them in the sink. Brush your teeth and do the same. Then clean your brush. (Sorry this is yukky, but it works.) 8. Amplification of the senses. Increased sensitivity. 8a. Sight: Blurry vision, shimmering objects, seeing glittery particles, auras around people, plants, animals, and objects. Some report seeing formerly opaque objects as transparent. When you close your eyes, you no longer see darkness, but a redness. You may also see geometric shapes or brilliant colors and pictures when eyes are closed. Colors appear more vivid — the sky might look teal or the grass an amazing green. Often I see grids running across the ground. As you become more sensitive, you may see shapes or outlines in the air, especially when the room is almost dark. When your eyes are open or closed, you may see white shapes in your peripheral vision (these are your guides). Advice: Your vision is changing in many ways —

you are experiencing new ways of seeing. Be patient. Whatever you do, do not be afraid. Hazy vision may be relieved by yawning. 8b. Hearing: Increased or decreased hearing. I once thought I would have to pull off the road because of the painfully amplified sound of my tires on the freeway. Other symptoms are hearing white noise in the head, beeps, tones, music or electronic patterns. Some hear water rushing, bees buzzing, whooshing, roaring or ringing. Others have what is called audio dyslexia– you can’t always make out what people are saying, as if you can no longer translate your own language. Some hear strange voices in their dreams, as if someone is hovering near them.


You can either ask the presence to leave or ask Archangel Michael to take care of the situation. Again, there is nothing to fear. Advice: Surrender to it. Let it come through. Listen. Your ears are adjusting to new frequencies. 8c. Enhanced senses of smell, touch, and/or taste. I notice I can now smell and taste chemical additives in some foods in a rather unpleasant manner. Other food may taste absolutely wonderful. For some people, these enhancements are both delightful and distracting. You might even smell the fragrance of flowers now and then. Many of the mystics did. Enjoy it.

9. Skin eruptions: Rashes, bumps, acne, hives, and shingles. Anger produces outbreaks around the mouth and chin. I had a dermatitis on my extremities for several months that accompanied healing an episode from my past. When I had worked through most of the issue, the condition was released. Advice: You may be sloughing off toxins and bringing emotions to the surface. When there is an issue to be released and you are trying to repress it, your skin will express the issue for you until you process the emotions. Work through your “stuff”. 10. Episodes of intense energy which make you want to leap out of bed and into action. Followed by periods of lethargy and fatigue. The fatigue usually follows great shifts. This is a time of integration, so give into it. Advice: Roll with the nature of the energy. Don’t fight it. Be gentle with yourself. Take naps if you are tired. Write your


novel if you are too energized to sleep. Take advantage of the type of energy. 11. Changes in prayer or meditation. Not feeling the same sensations as before. Not having the same experience of being in contact with Spirit. Difficulty in focusing. Advice: You may be in more instant and constant communion with Spirit now and the sensation may therefore be altered. You will adapt to this new feeling. You are actually thinking acting in partnership with Spirit most of the time now. You may find your meditation periods shorter.

12. Power surges: All of a sudden you are heated from head to toe. It is a momentary sensation, but uncomfortable. In contrast, some people have felt inexplicably cold. I have experienced both. More recently I experience waves or currents of energy rolling through me. Sometimes the energy seems so intense when it first comes into my body that I feel a little nauseated. But if I think of the energy as divine and let go of fear, I feel wonderful and enjoy the sensation. If you are an energy worker, you may have noticed that the heat running through your hands has increased tremendously. This is good. Advice: If you are uncomfortable, ask your Higher Power, that if it be for your best and highest good, to turn down/ up the temperature a bit.

Part 2 coming in the next issue of Beyond parazine


Sleep paralysis can be one of the most terrifying things you ever experience, people who suffer from sleep paralysis are sometimes so traumatised by the experiences that they can find it impossible to actually describe the blood freezing terror that that have felt, we will try to uncover some of the facts of sleep paralysis and some of the myths. Sleep paralysis is a phenomenon in which the sufferer experiences as they are falling to sleep or waking up, it is the feeling of being unable to move their body, the state is called muscle atonia, (muscle weakness). Muscle atonia is the bodies way of stopping us acting out our dreams and injuring ourselves. Sleep paralysis has been linked with disorders like narcolepsy,

Migraines, anxiety disorders and obstructive sleep apnea but it can also happen in isolation without the person suffering from any of the common disorders. People who suffer from episodes of sleep paralysis say they see the most horrifying things, from intruders in their room, demons or a dark force holding them down, being choked etc. This is known as Hypnagogic and Hypnopompic hallucinations,


Many scientist believe these hallucinations to be the explanation for alien abductions and ghost sightings, there really is nobody or nothing in the room. Most people who suffer from sleep paralysis are struck with a deep sense of absolute terror due to not being able to defend themselves because of being unable to move, this terror is thought to be the result of a hyper vigilant state created in the mid brain, the emergency response in the brain activates when the person wakes and feels vulnerable to attack, the helplessness can intensify the effects of the threat response way above the level that is typical in

Normal dreams, this may explain why the visions and feeling are so vivid and real during sleep paralysis. Scientifically, sleep paralysis is thought to be related to REM, rapid eye movements, this is the point were dreams are the most vivid which is a reason the experience is so real to those who suffer. There can be many other triggers such as lack of regular sleep, shift work and alcohol. Whatever the cause for sleep paralysis is it is a terrifying thing to endure. But maybe not all cases are so easily explained away, we are afterall looking at the paranormal.


PAST Paranormal Investigation Report: 35 Stonegate, York. Investigation Date: 10th May 2014, 8pm - 4am Investigation Team Members: Kath, John, Lucy & Wayne. Equipment Used: K2 x 2, MEL REM ATDD, Sony DCR- SR55 x 2, Kevora.

Rooms Investigated: Living Room, Bedrooms, Mask Room, Seance Room, Mirror Room, Cellar and Base Central. The Teams Investigation Report: First of all, we'd like to thank Sean, and the PAST Hauntings Team for inviting us along to investigate Haunted, aka 35 Stonegate in York.


It was an immense pleasure to meet the following teams: LAD Paranormal. Ghost Quest and of course last but not least, PAST Hauntings! Arrival. We arrived in York, on the day of the investigation, and it was peeing it down, so initially my thoughts for the production side of things was worried about our filming equipment getting wet. Luckily for me, we managed to work around this and still managed to obtain footage that we needed for the production of our TV episode.

It was also a good advantage for John and Lucy. They’ve never been in that building, so it was good for them to get acquainted with the location ready for the investigation later that night. After the meet and greet side of things and the respective health and safety talks, Sean handed out our list of rooms and the rota in which were going to investigate the property, so from here on in we headed to our first room that night, the dining room.

When we eventually got back to the location, we did get allowed in and straight away got permission to fill the production aspects by filming the internal footage. Our equipment consisted of two K2s, Kevora, Mel Meter, and two camcorders. We also took many photographs during the tour as well as through the night. Our first room to investigate was the beautiful dining room ( first floor, front room).


At one point Kath’s face seemed to change shape and she seemed to be channelling a woman who was unimpressed by the way we were sat and the fact that the two women were wearing trousers. Through the night we moved along the rooms passing bits of information along to passing teams and giving each other hints about what to watch out for. I think out of all the rooms the séance room seemed to be the most intriguing. Whether this was due to the lay out and atmosphere (a very large table, three Ouija boards, a crystal ball and was extremely dark). During the pre-investigation in one area I noticed a strange shadow on the photograph I had just took so preceded to take three more in exactly the same place. The shadow seemed to change form and there looks to be a human outline. When we first entered this room and the previous team were leaving we were told to watch the

Ouija boards, as the planchet seemed to move slightly, and a light show of faint moving red and blue lights. We ourselves weren’t lucky enough to experience this but for some reason two of the room lights kept coming on and off at random times, sometimes they flickered, they seemed to respond to us asking them to turn on and off and personally I asked them if they could do it one more time as we were leaving the room and it did. Sceptics would say this is a electrical fault, which is possible, however there was no definite interval between the lights coming on and off, it didn’t start until half way


through the investigation of the room, the previous team hadn’t experienced it, the owner said the automated tour was switched off and that they have had numerous emails from people watching online stating that the lights had gone on then off even when there was nobody on the premises. Throughout each room we had responses on our various pieces of equipment. We had K2 responses in the mask room and responses throughout on Kevora (unfortunately we ran out of space on it halfway through the night and we hadn’t fetched our Dictaphone or SB7) and the mel meter (EMF changes, temperature changes etc). As well as Kath channelling the mysterious lady members experienced cold spots and shivers down their arms and the feeling of hair touching.


All in all it wasn’t a very positive result evidence wise but that seemed more due to the limited amount of equipment that we had taken (we will take more next time).

I am really looking forward to meeting these guys again and will definitely visit 35 stonegate again the next time in York.

Personally I think the best part of this investigation was meeting the other teams, it was a real pleasure to meet like-minded people and swap and share stories and locations. It is also an excellent way to investigate larger places such as 35 stonegate, as you can share the cost, and a great way of networking and gaining experiences and ideas.

Www.past-paranormal.co.uk Www.facebook.com/pastparanormaluk Www.youtube.com/barnsleyparanormal


Formed in November 2012, we investigate claims of the Paranormal & Supernatural and to help those in need of our service FREE of charge. Based in Anglia & London. We have sceptics & believers that use scientific methods with our state of the art equipment to either prove or disprove claims of the paranormal. We also use accredited mediums with experience in this field.

www.xstreamparanormal.com


A SHORT HISTORY OF EVPs EVPs, or electronic voice phenomena, are recordings that paranormal investigators believe may contain the voices of spirits or sounds made by spirits that are not heard when the recording is being made. Interest in speaking to the dead gained huge popularity during the spiritualist movement (1840s-1920s). Thomas Edison was once asked if he bvelieved it was possible to communicate with the dead, he didnt agree with either side but simply stated that if it was possible the recording device would have to be extremely sensitive. In the 1930’s, Latvian photographer Attila Von Szalay tried to record spirit voices. To start with he used a 78rpm record, then a wire recorder, but he achieved his best results in the 1950’s using a reel to reel tape recorder. Some of his recordings include voices saying ‘’Help Me!’’ the ever popular ‘’Get Out!’’ and a young boy saying what sounds like ‘’Do you want to hear me fart?!’’ On September 15th, 1952, two Catholic priests, Father Ernetti and Father Gemelli were recording a Gregorian chant on an early device called a Magnetophon. When it kept breaking , a frustrated Father Gemelli called out to his dead father for help. He was shocked to hear an answer when he played


It back, ‘’Of course I shall help you. I’m always with you.’’ In 1959, when Swedish painter and film producer Friedrich Jurgenson replayed a recording he’d made of birdsongs, he heard what sounded like the voices of his dead wife and father calling his name. He made several more recordings, including one in which he felt he received a message from his late mother. Over the years hundreds of thousands of recordings have been made, both friendly amd malevolent, with varying clarity and integrity. The job a collecting EVP’s has become natural for paranormal investigators. With high quality recorders that now have filters that can remove possible spirit voices, the best results are said to be achieved from lower quality devices that allow ‘’noise’’ or ‘’static’’ to be picked up, which some believe, the spirits use to speak. Listening for EVP’s is something that investigators get better at the more they do it, learning to listen beyond the normal and listening for that little something that is out of place. Investigators must always be aware of auditory pareidolia, get the evp checked by several people so as to try to rule this phenomena out.


What is the best camcorder for ghosthunting? What is the best camcorder for Anyghosthunting? camera with infra red capabilities fine, thered best thing Any camera iswith infra to look for isis fine, the Lux capabilities the rating, best thing 0Lux enables to lookbeing for isthe thebest, Lux this rating, 0Lux the camcorder to ‘see’ in the being the best, this enables complete darkness its ir camcorder to ‘see’ inusing complete led, manyusing investigators to darkness its ir led,like many use ir boosterlike lights, these are Investigators to use ir booster readilythese available and are a great lights, are readily available helpare in athe dark, extending the and great help in the dark, field of vision considerably. extending the field of vision considerably. There are many camcorders on the market that will do the job There are many camcorders on butmarket Sony seem to bedothe the that will thepopular job but choice, HDtorecording and hard Sony seem be the popular drive storage are recommended choice, HD recording and hard as is the purchase of a long life drive storage are recommended battery, personal choice is the as is the purchase of a long life main factor as long as you battery, personal choice is the ensure the night vision is on the main factor as long as you ensure camera to get bestcamera that the nighttry vision is the on the your will allow. try to budget get the best that your budget will allow.

Can ghosts/spirits leave presents/gifts i.e physical objects? When this phenomenon is reported in paranormal terms it is known as an apport. An apport is usually an object that has some sort of significance to either the spirit or the recipient, sometimes the apport is meant to help out or console in a great time of need. They are typically left in a spot were they can be easily found, a place were the person they are intended for will find them. Many people tell of findings apports that offer them great comfort when they need it most, the apport that they found they say is usually something very personal to them or the passed relative/friend.


We have several investigations coming up between now And November this year, all of which will be charity events for paracon uk

Join us Each event will have a minimum price but we encourage you to pay as much as you can because all profits are going to the two charities Lets come together and unite to honour Events will be announced on our facebook page


Clifton Hall is set in the town of Clifton in Nottingham and is reportedly incredibly haunted, the site it sits on has a history all the way back to the 11th Century, the hall was remodelled in the 18th century. Clifton Hall was in the news in 2008 when it was reported that a millionaire business owner stopped paying his mortgage and handed the property back to the bank due to the hauntings making the place impossible to live in. Hauntings have been reported at the hall since it was used as a girls school from 1958 to 1976, prior to that it was in the ownership of the Clifton family for over 700years.

The Clifton Hall Investigations The Truth! By Lee Roberts Roberts In September 2008 Mr Rashid and his family handed the keys to Clifton hall back to Yorkshire bank, He had not paid the mortgage for the ÂŁ5 million mansion in some months and had decided he no longer wanted the property.

He claimed this was due to spirits in the house tormenting his family, shadowy figures walking along the staircases, bloodspots Who are the spirits that haunt this found on his daughters head now empty and brooding hall, are when there was no injury to the they awaiting the next owner? baby.


The story made international headlines, It only made the press due to it actually being the most expensive property ever to be repossessed; otherwise the story may never have been told that and the experiences I had at Clifton Hall leads me to believe there are spirits that still roam the Old Hall, here is my story of the investigations into Clifton Hall and then you can decide for yourself, was this the UK’s version of Amityville or was it a man that just could not afford to pay for the property anymore?

I was lucky enough to have been one of the team leaders for the team that Mr. Rashid called to try and banish these spirits and although during that time I was interviewed on TV and radio from not only Britain but Brazil, Australia, Indian, Chinese, German press I never really got to tell the story of my experiences at Clifton Hall. It was in August 2007 when I was asked would we be interested in investigating Clifton Hall in Nottinghamshire. As it was local to us and the size of the place I obviously said I’d love too. Cal Cooper our resident sceptic of the team had done some research there a few years earlier when the place was derelict and had wanted to go back to further his research. We found out that the Rashid family had brought the place and had moved in; Mr. Rashid was a wealthy man that had initially bought the place to convert into a wedding venue where couples could get married and stay the night there with their family in the


wonderful surroundings. This had sadly fallen through for Mr. Rashid and so he and his family we were led to believe were still living there. Cal Cooper did all the initial ground work to get us access to the hall, in fact they were more than welcoming to us as the Personal assistant informed us that in fact the Rashid family had been having a few problems that were unexplainable to them. So much so that Mr. Rashid had called a Muslim high priest of some sort to perform a blessing on the house. This was evident as in every room nailed to the wall was a A4 piece of paper with strange symbols on, this I was told was to keep the evil spirits away. We were told that we could have a full weekend there to conduct experiments and research. We were given a key to the front door and left to it. We were told that no one would be

Lee Roberts

there as none of the family members wish to stay the night! For the first night we decided that we would have a limited number of investigators there to do base line tests on the property and just have a feel for the place, no mediums were present on this first night. One of the strangest things that happened at Clifton hall occurred on that night, 4 investigators were present on that night and at one point all four were up in what we called the nursery room which is situated at the highest point of Clifton hall, and in fact used to be the nursery. A voice came over the


radio, a female voice saying “we know you are alone in there”. Was this coincidence and had we picked up on a random conversation through the air waves via a taxi company or baby monitor? We asked around at the new houses that were situated on the site and quite possibly the only houses that could have affected us via a baby monitor, most were empty as they were new built and those that were occupied did not have a baby or a baby monitor. As for the taxi theory, we were quite a fair way away from the main road and had not come across this before, but why was it so clear and saying “we know you are alone in there”.

Another theory was kids messing around on the grounds which we can never rule out, but the fact we had an 8 channel radio and they had to get the right frequency and know we were in there in some going. This wouldn’t be the last we heard of this voice... On the second night the whole team was present, we had 3 mediums in attendance and lots of equipment to set up. We spent most of the day there preparing for the night fall to begin our experiments. However the spirits didn’t want to wait and throughout the day we had strange activity such as doors slamming, footsteps and shadows out the corner of your eye. I put most of this down to the excitement of the team and minds


over working, but I had to admit out of all the places I had been to this gave me the goose bumps. It was like something was watching you all the time, waiting for you to wonder off on your own. Even when I was out on the grounds on my own I was nervous and didn’t go up close to look through the window as I was scared of what I may see. The night eventually came and the team were now very familiar with the surroundings of the Hall. I decided as it was such a big place that we were to split into 3 teams to cover more ground. This however didn’t last long; the mediums were not happy after around 45 minutes in and demanded that we come together as a whole team. This was unlike the mediums we had there as usually they love to split into smaller teams. Throughout the night we experienced several strange occurrences, first one being that at 12.55am the gates to the hall

opened and then closed again on their own, electrical fault or a resetting device I thought straight away. I was told that this had also occurred on the first night. On speaking to the family after the investigation they told us that there is no resetting device and this did happen from time to time but they had no reason for it. The second was a strange whistling sound that was flowing through the hall, it was as if a human was in the next room whistling out to us, but the more we chased the whistle the more it moved away from us. This was never explained and even the


Towards the end of the evening we tried some mirror scrying which is an old method of contact where you sit and stare into a mirror and a spirit or ghost would show themselves through you. Paul, my brother in law and fellow team leader had a go at this as he was always up for anything, although after around 15 minutes of staring into the mirror he turned and seemed to panic, Tracy one of our mediums looked very worried and we tried to calm him down to find out what had happened, it wasn’t until a few days later he actually said anything at all about the event and when he did he didn’t say much. What I do know is that it was something to do with a friend that had passed a few years earlier. Night one finished and other than a few scares, bumps, bangs and orbs on camera nothing concrete evidence wise. We stayed a third night but nothing

nothing much happened on that evening. The place was amazing and there was defiantly something I just couldn’t put my finger on about the place. I am never scared of locations but this one had me going and I just didn’t know why. In August 2008 I decided to go and see Mr Rashid to see how he was getting on and if they had had anymore problems at the house. On my arrival I was met with a male who didn’t speak much English but he knew I wanted Mr. Rashid and so phoned him for me. Mr. Rashid informed me that he was in fact handing the keys back to the bank as he has had to move his family out of the property due to the activity and the male that


evenly and Team 1 took the Second floor and Team 2 (which I was in) took the ground floor.

was at the property was in fact a security guard and was looking after the place for him. It didn’t take much persuading to let him give me access to the hall again. That weekend I decided that I would take the team back to Clifton hall and take some friends with us to see if we can get the energy going. The Friday night there was around 20 of us in attendance and as there were such a number of us I decided to split us up into teams of 10. Firstly I took the guests around the hall to familiarise them with the layout and the rest of the team set up some experiments (motion sensors, tables, trigger objects etc) After that I split us up

It was around 11 am and we had been working our way along the ground floor for about an hour and a half now, holding vigils and calling out. The place seemed really calm and I felt really at ease. My team had arrived at the room that Paul had his scrying incident nearly 1 year earlier. Suddenly I heard on my radio “Lee come upstairs we have an incident”. I left my team with another member of the staff and made my way up to the King Charles room where they said they was. The King Charles room is dead centre of Clifton Hall and is like a ballroom but slightly smaller, it has a grand fireplace and long windows with long draping curtains. As I entered the room I could see that Team 1 was in a fluster, there wasn’t a controlled experiment going on but just people talking amongst


themselves and obviously trying to make sense of what had happened. I immediately looked for Paul who was in charge of Team 1 and was told he was in the next room with one of our mediums and another staff member. I was told by one of the team members that team 1 had sat down to hold a séance in the centre of the King Charles room, all were sat comfortably on chairs and were in the dark, only the moon light to give them a little light. As they began calling out apparently Paul who was facing the front of the house started crying uncontrollably. He was distraught over something and no-one could calm him down.

Once he had gathered himself together he told us that he actually saw a figure of a small child (he described as a boy) peers out from behind one of the draping curtains. On doing this he felt sad and this sadness just overwhelmed him making him cry. He didn’t know why and to this day still doesn’t. I asked Paul to gather himself together and go with a staff member downstairs. Also for Team 1 to also move downstairs where they could carry on if they wished with holding vigils. I on the other hand had a plan, I knew that Team 2 had been holding a vigil while all this had been happening and had no idea what had happened other than what was said over the radio “there had been an incident”.


Then after around 5 minutes of calling out, Bingo, it happened, one of the members started to cry, sobbing at first and then uncontrollably, this was a guest and not one of the team members as before and so I was intrigued to find out what he had seen. My plan was to move Team 2 into the King Charles room and do the same experiment as team 1 had been doing when this had occurred. I told them nothing and made sure that they had no contact with any of team 1 whilst we were moving upstairs. I sat them all down and explained we would be holding a vigil in the room, if anyone was uncomfortable with this to leave now. Nobody left and in fact everyone was excited to see what I was planning. I asked another member of the team to ask out as I didn’t want to call out and suggest anything; after all I knew what was just seen. I had my back to the curtain in question; to say I was anxious and nervous was an understatement.

After calming him down he said to me, he had seen a figure, a small figure come out from behind the curtain and straight away he felt sad and then couldn’t remember much more. Not only did he see a small figure as did Paul, and start crying and felt overwhelmed as did Paul, but something I didn’t know until after the event was he was sitting in the exact same chair Paul was when it happened to him! Our hearts were thumping and the adrenaline pumping and I couldn’t stop there, was we on the verge of discovering something very special. I tried to keep the team together to hold a glass moving exercise.


Obviously the young lad that had just been affected left with his girlfriend and team member to get some air. Leaving 7 of us in the room one of which was Paul’s mum (why I mention this will make sense in a moment) we all stood up while conducting the experiment, 5 were on the table and 2 of us were watching, I and one filming. The experiment was going as normal with a little moment of the glass, it then seemed to get stronger and stronger until eventually Paul’s mum suddenly collapsed on the floor. She went with quiet a thud and initially I though it maybe because she had been on her feet and it was getting late. I radioed down stairs to not only tell the team we had an incident but to make Paul aware he was needed upstairs, the response I got was unexpected to say the least. I was told that Paul was unavailable; he too had just collapsed while holding a vigil. For the first and only time I have ever had to do this I turned all the lights

on and called a STOP to the investigation. I had 2 people that had collapsed and had another still trying to come to terms with potentially seeing a ghost! I had to get a grip of the situation as for the first time I was not in control and I don’t know who was! On looking back at the tapes, Paul and his mum fell at the exact same time to each other, something again that surely must be more than coincidence.


The guests decided to leave after a short break and even some of the team left too. I didn’t blame them as I was in two minds whether to call it off anyway. But the investigator in me wanted to know more, so with equipment at the ready the few that had stayed decided to venture into Clifton Hall for what would be our last time. The panic had gone and the creepy atmosphere had gone too, it was as if whatever had just been playing with us had decided enough was enough. There was just one bit of evidence we did get that to this day still baffles me, as we entered the nursery room again toward the end of the night, we were all together as a team again, when all of a sudden over the radio was the voice from nearly a year ago “so you’ve come back then ”. Lee Roberts http://officialleeroberts.com/ https://www.facebook.com/ officialleeroberts https://twitter.com/mrleeroberts



Types of haunting It is believed that some places are able to record events within their very structure, voices, apparitions, and play them back over and over again. This is what is known as a

Residual haunting. This is usually the case when something is seen or heard on the same day and time, year after year, if you are unable to interact with a spirit then it would fall into this category of haunting as the spirit is not actually present it is only a replay of a previous event. This accounts for people seeing a ghost walk through a door that is not longer there or on a floor that has long since gone. The idea of a residual haunting brings about the ’stone tape theory’, the idea that certain stones such as limestone and quartz are perfect recorders for past events.

‘The stone tape theory’ is something that will be examined closer in another issue. Residual hauntings are rooted to the spot were they have been recorded and sometimes can carry on in the same area long after the original building has gone. When the same report is made time after time about a location then that probably indicates it has a residual haunting happening there.


Finally we have Portal Hauntings, these type of haunting are probably the least common and least talked about. It is believed that this happens when a doorway has been opened up at a location through repeated communication, sĂŠances, spirit boards, 100 candles games etc etc An Intelligent Haunting is more recognizable, where the spirit seems to have free will and intent, able to respond to the presence of others and answer questions. They are conscious entities that the living are able to interact with. These spirits are sometimes location based, but have been known to attach to objects or even people. Some believe that these types of spirits have as much free will as we do to roam were ever they please but mainly they seem to stick to a certain location. A spirit attaching to someone is thankfully rare.

Once the portal has been opened it will remain open for spirits to pass through until it has closed properly.


Chris Dedman The Interview Chris has lectured at variety of paranormal conventions across the United States and has worked with many top names in the paranormal field. Chris has been featured on the Travel Channel's Most Terrifying Places in America, and Ghost Adventures, The Discovery Channel's Ghost Lab, Bio’s My Ghost Story and in a featured article in TAPS ParaMagazine. In October of 2008, one of Chris's cases rocked the nation when it aired on A&E's Paranormal State entitled "I AM SIX". It is because of this case and the things he now has to face on a daily bases that has made Chris a Haunted Survivor. Chris is now taking his personal experiences with the Demonic and has decided to make it his mission to help others that are dealing with these same hunting’s. Chris is always looking for ways to help others in the field.

As Seen on TV


1) Do you believe your faith helps you when investigating the paranormal? I believe my faith does help when it comes to investigating in the Paranormal Because I am able to tell the difference in a spirit that is just nasty or is a true Demon. You have to be careful where you tread so that the hunter doesn't become the hunted!!! Something a lot of teams don't think about when they go running in gun hoe and end up making things worse for the client or causing more issues with the family. The investigator gets to go home at the end of the night but the family has to stay.

2) What are your aims and goals concerning paranormal investigation? My aims and goals are to educate people in the paranormal community about the Dangers of it. Too many people are taking things at face value and aren't protecting themselves or their

team. I don't care who your God is or what you worship, every belief system has something you can protect yourself with and you should use it. Attachments are becoming more and more common because people are allowing spirits to follow them home and/or attach themselves to the investigator. People need to be educated on how to prevent this. They also need to understand not everything is Demonic. That's the new "Fade" right now and it isn't cool! Not everything is a Demon and people need to know what to look for.


Law in a sense. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" or Yin and Yang.

3) Why do you feel that a lot of people of faith refuse to believe in the paranormal but believe in a spiritual world? There are many reasons people of faith don't believe in the paranormal or ghost. One is they haven't been taught properly. Unfortunately many Priest and Ministers want their congregation to know that there is a Heaven and Hell but they concentrate more on the Heaven, angels and pleasant side of scripture leaving out the darker side. If you have one, you have to have the other. Kind of like Newtons Third

You can't have Heaven and not Hell. Many people are also just scared. It's been made that way through social media and movies. But people need to realize that It talks about Ghost and Demons along with possession all through the Bible and many books of the Bible so they need to take the initiative to educated themselves and not rely on others.

4) How were your experiences being on paranormal TV shows? My experience on TV has been very interesting to say the least. First and for most as a consultant on a show, you do not get paid! So nobody is getting Rich here. That's another fad that is going on. All these so called teams trying to catch that magic piece of evidence so they can get on TV and their 15min of fame. Not going to happen people and I hate to tell you but the paranormal train is pulling


into the station. I have had fun doing it don't get me wrong and met some really cool people. For instance, the producer that did the Villisca Axe Murder House episode for Ghost Adventures has become a good friend of mine and we talk often. It's also allowed me to see the other side of a show and know what it's all about and really going on. One of the things I hate the most is when someone refers to me as a Para-Celebrity because I have been on TV. I'm just a normal guy that got some neat opportunities to be on several different shows and networks but in the end I put my pants on just like everyone else.

5) What are you most looking forward to about Paracon UK? The thing I'm looking forward to the most about Paracon UK is getting to finally meet all the friends I have made over the years in the UK and to make many more. Second, I would be able to bring my teachings of the Dangers of This field over there. If I can just touch one person and they carry it on long after I have left then it would had all been worth it. It's the reason I do what I do. Of course


the history to. I'm a huge History Buff and have always wanted to go "across the pond" as it's referred to and see where my aunt-sisters came from.

been in denial had another investigator not felt it also. We had all kinds of things happen that night from fresh batteries draining from 100% to 0% and then back to %100 and something Rush out of a Prison Cell at us. This location is not only rich in history but spirits as well.

6) What is the best place you have investigated and why? ? I would have to say the Ohio State Reformatory in Mansfield, OH has been one of the most active and bone chilling places I have ever investigated to date. The history and architecture is just amazing!! I'm also a huge fan of the movie The Shawshank Redeption featuring Morgan Freeman and Tim Robbins which was filmed in and around the prison. This was the first location where I actually had a spirit rush through me. And to be honest I would had

Meet Chris Dedman and many others at Paracon UK on 22nd and 23rd of November at Derby Conference Centre. Two amazing days packed with things to do and people to meet, auctions, seminars, raffles, lectures and much much more. This is the place to be for everyone into the paranormal, See you all there!!


ladparanormalinvestigationteam@hotmail.co.uk


http://eirievoicesparanormalsociety.weebly.com/

http://www.secrethauntings.co.uk/

OLD HAUNTS PARANORMAL Find us on facebook


England’s Haunted..... Castle’s by Stephen Renfield

Europe is lucky to have the world’s most beautiful castles, adorned with a vast history, which goes back further than any other. Linked to Kings, Queens and prominent people throughout history. I must say, here in England, we have our fair share that are reportedly haunted. As there are so many, I have picked out my top five........

5. Pendennis Castle - Cornwall One of the lesser known haunted Castles is Pendennis Castle situated near Falmouth, Cornwall. Built in 1539, it is also known as one of King Henry VIII’s forts that were built to defend against the threat of attack from the Spanish and the French.

It is claimed to have quite a few ghosts and ghostly forms have been reported to have seen from the famous siege during the civil war that claimed the lives of men, women and children that died there. Reports have been made of an apparition of a child that makes it’s way up the spiral staircase, in the Tudor kitchen staff have seen a woman that disappears through a blocked staircase.


There have been sightings of a woman on the lawn which is said to be the wife of a royalist officer. Children’s laughter is also said to be heard here. The most recent activity reported is that of WWII soldiers that have been seen in what is now the gift shop. A great place to visit if you ever happen to be near Falmouth. 4 Cardiff Castle – Wales By day, Cardiff Castle is one of Wales’s most popular heritage attractions, as thousands flock to bear witness to its long history of Romans, Normans, Knights and Nobles over many centuries. Its glittering interiors are a legacy of its extraordinary renaissance in

the nineteenth century: a fantasy Medieval Palace dreamt up by the mysterious and mystical Third Marques of Bute and his eccentric genius art-architect William Burges. Most of the activity occurs in the main lodgings, in the south-west corner of the castle grounds, which is affectionately known as the "palace". In the stockroom, in the early hours of the morning, items are moved around and rearranged for no apparent reason by a mist-like "faceless vision in a flowing greyishwhite skirt".

In the main dining-hall, at precisely 3:45 am each morning, the heavy doors open and close by themselves (even if they are locked or unlocked) and the lights flicker on and off.


Occasionally, furniture will be rearranged in this room as well. The Second Marques of Bute, who began restoration of Cardiff Castle, but died in 1848, is said to appear walking through the fireplace of the library. He leaves this room, passing through a six-foot-thick wall, dressed in a long red coat, and then passes through the wall of the chapel into the room in which he died.

An apparition, said to be Lady Sophia Rawdon-Hastings, wife of the Second Marques of Bute, is believed to float through the castle grounds at night. Travelling up Cowbridge Road East to the gates of Cardiff Castle (as recently as the 1950s) was a phantom coach and horses. At times, it can also be seen and heard in the castle grounds.

3 Glamis Castle – Nr Forfar, Scotland Situated near Forfar, Scotland, Glamis has that Wow factor the minute you lay your eyes on it! Famous for the setting for Shakespear’s Macbeth, this is the ancestral home of the Lyon now Bowes-Lyon family. The head of the family are the Earls of Stathmore who were ennobled 3 time before they became Scottish Earls in 1677 and UK Earls in 1937, when Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Duchess of York became Queen of England, later Queen Elizabeth the Queen mother who’s childhood home was Glamis.


There are claims that clergy were bricked up in it’s walls and sightings of their apparitions. The White lady is said to also haunt visitors to the front door of the castle. A small servant boy has been seen and even someone in mail armour and much more!

Princess Margaret was born here at Glamis and this Castle also has the room where King Malcom of Scotland died after being wounded in battle. It is said that the legend of the secret room or chamber that is hidden deep within the castle’s walls, that the Lord Glamis and the Earl of Crawford played a game of cards with the Devil on the Sabbath which lead to many disturbances that the room was sealed up permantly 300 years later.

2 Leap Castle - Ireland Over 400 years ago and now known as the "Bloody Chapel" a shocking murder occurred. Leap Castle was then a stronghold of the O'Carroll family, powerful Irish Princes, Chieftains of the area. In 1532, on the death of the O'Carroll Chieftain, a fierce rivalry for the leadership erupted within the family. The bitter fight for power turned brother against brother. One of the brothers was a priest. The O'Carroll priest was holding mass for a group of his family (in what is now called the "Bloody Chapel"). While chanting the holy rites, his rival brother burst into the chapel plunging his sword into his brother. Fatally wounding him, the butchered priest fell across the altar and died in front of his family.


The heinous act of brother killing brother and the blasphemy of a sacred mass cut short by such an evil event sent an echo of misery ringing throughout the castle.

This thing is said to be able to change shape and attack visitors at any time, night or day! The owner has also fallen foul to freak accidents during restoration of the building and passers by claiming to have seen lights on in the building when no one has been around. People have been touched and also see shadow figures...... A ghost hunter’s dream! And now for my No 1............ The Tower of London The Tower of London is actually England’s most haunted Castle. It is teaming with history, with mysteries that go along with history too. What happened to the two princes that were locked up at the tower? There have been claims of hearing children laughing and playing and a ghostly apparition of the boys have been seen here.

The Castle today, famous for its elemental haunting has my number 2 spot.

The infamous Traitors Gate, were so many passed though on their way to execution.


Although not many people were executed here, Anne Boleyn was just on the inner court yard and the chopping block is still housed there on display to the public. There is also a reported apparition of a man pushing a cart with the dead laying on it, that suddenly disappears, not to mention the spiked heads that were bought there and displayed at the Tower of London as a deterrent, to name but a few. A great tourist attraction that takes on a different atmosphere once everyone has left and the gates have been locked up for the night.

Next Month Stephen Renfield writes about Britain's Haunted Pubs, not to be missed!!


Paranormal Unity Why Can’t We All Just Get Along? Paranormal Unity, we have all heard the phrase and all seen teams trying to promote it, the big question is will it ever happen? There must be thousands of teams of paranormal investigators around the world all essentially striving for the same thing, or are they? It looks like many teams are out for themselves, to get to the top of the tree so to speak, they want the fame, fortune and recognition that the TV teams have, they want to be seen by millions of viewers around the world and do not care what it takes to achieve their goal. Are these teams buying into paranormal unity? Are they doing it for the common goal? What about the teams or individuals who seems to enjoy

putting others evidence down, being abusive and spreading negativity about teams, many that do this often have nothing of their own to share. Then we have the know-it-alls who claim they know everything there is to know because of the years of experience they have had and go around telling teams what they have caught and rubbishing evidence if it does not meet their rules. Is it any wonder that paranormal unity is struggling to bring everyone in this field together? Humans are humans and all of us


have our opinions, and in this field that’s exactly what they are, just opinions. There are many points to argue being a paranormal investigator, probably the most hotly contested are ‘orbs’, nothing causes more heated debates, there seems to be three camps on the subject, ALL ‘orbs’ are explainable, SOME ‘orbs’ are explainable and ALL ‘orbs’ are paranormal. I wont go into the subject here but maybe just maybe whichever side of the fence we are on we should be happy with our decision and leave others to theirs instead of attacking them and resorting to abuse if they think different to us. It would be a giant step towards the idea of unity.

It has also been suggested that there should be a single governing body made up of paranormal experts who will decide on what evidence is acceptable and what isn't. Would that work, in a nutshell, no, it would only cause more friction when it is deemed a teams evidence that they believe in is not good enough to show, division is not unity. Also there seems to be a lot of teams who see paranormal investigation as a big competition, especially on Facebook, who has the most ‘likes’, who gets the most ‘comments’, who has the most ‘share’ etc etc. There is no prize or award to the best team but this doesn't stop the


scramble to prove who is the best.

so much venomous abuse.

Jealousy prevails and the green eyed monster is rampant.

As investigators surely we are always learning, finding new ways to conduct investigations, new ways of using equipment and as part of this learning should come sharing.

When a team catches what they believe to be good evidence if we disagree do we have the right to rubbish what they have had the guts to put out for all to see? No. We all have our opinions on what constitutes good evidence but its exactly that, our opinion and as the saying goes sometimes ’’its best to keep your opinions to yourself’’, we do not know the circumstances and the details of the time and place etc that the capture was made so we cannot say that we know what it is, offer an opinion maybe but not state our opinion as ’fact’, this is another way of causing that harmful division instead of unity. Isn't it strange that people of all different religions/faiths are able to work along side each other without a problem, perfect example of unity at work, but a simple faint grey round object on a photograph is enough to cause

We should all be working together not fighting, how do we ever expect the scientific world and public as a whole to take us seriously if we are always arguing and disagreeing? Sharing ideas is the only way this field of work can ever move forward, next time you see something you don’t agree with please think before you say something, think how it can be done without causing offence or upset, try to avoid the argument, lets try to encourage each other, not discourage. Lets come together as one, lets strive for UNITY.





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