


Serving 13 Southern states
PUBLISHER Alan Oakes (ajoakes@aol.com)
A quick look bock ot our fint trn'o decodes. O
More oplions for rypress
Unioue hordwood sees increosed demond from non-troditionol o oolicotions.
Keys to selling Gypress siding
Monufocturers strotegize how fo net o bigger shore of o smoller wood siding morket.
Crecting demond for weslern red cedar outside of the West
Eost Coost deoler mokes imported species its speciolty.
Treoters to phose out CCA treoted wood over nexl lwo yeors
Wood preservers to convert fo orsenote-free olternotives for non-industriol wood products.
Firsl step lo sucress os on engineered wood consultonl
Confront builden'resistonce to new producfs by toking their subcontrocton into considerotion.
Soufhern Building lfloterial Associqfion's onnuol buying show
Thonks!: Building profuds Digest celebrotes 20th onniversory I tl t2 r3 t4 22 24
Thousonds of exhibirors yie for home builders'ollention
An estimoted /0,000 otfendees converge on building products supershow in Ailonto.
PUBLISHER EMERITUS David Cutler
EDITOR David Koenig (dkoenig@ioc.net)
ASSOCIATE EDITOB Robert Fay (rfay@ioc.net)
AD SALES MANAGER Chuck Casey (chuck@ioc.net)
ADMINISTRATION DIRECTOR/ SECHEIARY Marie Oakes (mfpoakes@aol.com)
CIRCULATION Heather Kelly
Gontact our advefiising offices lor rates:
U.S.A.: Chuck Casey, 4500 Campus Drive, Suite 480, Newport Beach, Ca. 92660-1872. Phone (949) 852-1990 Fax 949-852-0231
E-mail chuck@ioc.net
INTERNET ADS: Alan Oakes, www.building. products.com. Phone (949) 852-1990 Fax 949-852-0231 E-mail aioakes@aol.com.
Call Heather at {949) 852-.1390 or send a check for the following amount to Building Products Digest,4500 Campus Drive, Suite 480, Newport B€ach, Ga, 9?660-.1872:
U.S.A.: One year (12 issues), $18
Two years, $29
Three years, $39
FOREIGN (Per year paid in advance in US funds): Surface-Canada or Mexico, $39 Other countries, $50
Air rates also available.
Single copies, $3 + shipping
Back issues (when available), $4.50 + shipping Vsn Us Onlne nr WWW. BUILDING.PRODUCTS.COM
BUlUlFilG PRODT CTS oIGEST is published monthly al 4500 Campus D1., Sle. 480. Newport Beach, Ca. 9266S1872, t$4S) 852-19S0, FAX 949{52ffi1, www.buildingfloduc{s.c0m, by Cutler n&|bhiry; hs, (q Calibmia Coryoration). I is an t&pendenl&owrd publication for buiHirg podrffi relailsrs and WhohsAle dirt'ibrlos in 13 soufEm stats. Copyrbhmz by eder RlHi$ir€, lnc. Cover ard entire conunt$ are fuily pr0tec'te{, atd mnt rxs ba re@uc€d h ay manrp. withoul wTi$en permission. A0 Rbhb Resnwsd. Bui$ing,pn4qsi$ ql?FS re$erves tlB riiprt b acss or reiect any editodal o{ advertisirry flHter, ard msurnes rn liabf,ity br matedals furni$d to il CflAmg S'A0DRES€ Serd adress labbl Itorn r.roent i$!e if pqs$ihlt,,@ ddresrdrd ning{qF uq} mde.
The front cover is a paid advenisement, this month sponsored by Advantech Flooring & Sheathing from Huber Engineered Woods.
Having attended many industry events this past year, clearly golf is the industry's sport of choice.
As the new season gets underway, let me say at once, that I am probably the world's worst golfer. At my last attempt, I hit one of my longer efforts-a magical 50 foot drive up a bank. There, I proceeded to entertain the crowd by trying to hit on a slope, doing a pirouette that would have scored 6.0 in another sport, and ending up at the bottom of the slope bloodied and bruised. Not satisfied, two holes later while trying to extract my driver fiom the bag, I brought it up with full fbrce into my subsequently bloodied eye. Needless to say, I decided the safest place for me (and others) was driving the cart, and getting an early start on the refreshmenls.
Golf is much like business. and can be the most challenging, complex and frustrating of endeavors. For both business and golf, no two days are ever the same, and both take discipline and patience, a good grounding in fundamentals. and a continuous review of performance.
If you look back to when you first learned golf, unlike me, you probably received instruction from a pro, or from books or tapes. You learned the game's fundamentals, and then you practiced, practiced and practiced. You learned that that same shot yesterday did not have quite the effect it did today under differing conditions. Some days your game was terrific and others terrible as you struggled to keep your patience and fbcus. When you were down, like even Tiger Woods, you went back to the fundamentals, and got feedback from a coach, playing partner or video cam. Over time you improved as your playing experience grew, and you realized tomorrow is alwavs another dav. You learned
ALAN OAKES publisheryou could take nothing for granted due to different conditions each and every round, due to weather, course and hole layout, playing partners, as well as other conditions out of your control.
Business is much the same. it can be energizing. frustrating. motivating. but above all it needs constant focus, discipline and patience, and a monitoring, review and feedback of performance.
When we started our careers. we were given tasks to learn, and as we improved, we were given additional tasks and responsibilities to further enhance our value. When we had a bad day at the offlce or in the field, maybe we did not focus or under pressure we took short cuts. When we did not gel lhe order we were counting on. maybe we did not cover all our bases. We learn particularly when we hit management that often to succeed we have to fail first. The only question is how long do we stay down on the ground before getting up. Like Tiger, after failure we go back to the fundamentals before we win again.
Every day we face an ever-changing business climate; our contacts and customers change, there are new products and hungry competitors out there, and the terms of the deal last month are not good enough this month. What we learn by experience is that no two days or deals are ever the same, and as we build our careers, and improve our own personal performance and skills through practice, we all still make mistakes if we take business for granted.
At the end of the day, the skills of golf-dedication, focus and discipline-will help you reposition yourself when you struggle. As for me, I will drive the cart and drink the refreshments. Cheers!
Following are authorized
WeatherBoards siding distributors:
Alabama
Gadsden
Dairymans
Montgomery
Woodford Plywood
Florida
Ft. Lauderdale
Dixie Plywood
Orlando
Dixie Plywood
Tallahassee
Woodford Plywood
Tampa
Dixie Plywood
Logan Lumber
Georgia
Albany
Woodfbrd Plywood
Atlanta
Dixie Plywood
Prime Source
Thomasville
Diamond Hill Plywood
Kentucky
Louisville
Falls City Lumber
Mayfield
Dairymans
North Carolina
Charlotte
Diamond Hill Plywood
Dunn
Interstate
Greensboro
Diamond Hill Plywood
Tennessee
Chattanooga
Reserve Warehouse Supply
Tennessee Plywood
Knoxville
Diamond Hill Plywood
Memphis
McEwen Lumber
Nashville
Diamond Hill Plywood
Texas
Dallas
DW Distribution
JEH
Texas Wholesale
Virginia
Chesapeake
Allied Building Products
Harrisonburg
Rocco Building Supply
Newport News
Ted Lansing
Roanoke
WM Tinder
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flwnNT} years ago. ro the issue. L Building Products Digest began. Namely, we began a quest we continue to this day-to help Southern building material dealers and distributors become better, more profitable businesses by providing advice and news they can use.
For us, the key is practical infor mation. We suspect most of our readers receive enough trade publications to rewallpaper their offices once a month. Some magazines are bigger. Some are fancier. Our goal is to be the one you read. No lO-page dissertations. No articles about plumbing supply centers in Argentina. No beautiful, colorful layouts that don't say anything. We know your time is money; we don't want to waste either.
On that note, if there are any subjects we're not covering adequately, areas we need to improve on, or even something we're doing right that we should do more of, please let us know.
[Feel free to contact us at (949) 8521990 or by email. Editor David Koenig (dkoenig@ioc.net) welcomes your ideas for feature articles. Associate editor Rob Fay (rfay@ioc.net) would like to hear about any news at your company, including new product introductions. Sales manager Chuck Casey (chuck@ioc.net) and publisher Alan Oakes (ajoakes@aol.com) can fill you in on effective, inexpensive advertising. And, circulation manager Heather Kelly can answer questions about your subscription.l
Now, the story of Building Products Digest didn't begin 20 years ago. It began 90 years ago, with longtime Southern publisher Jack Dionne. In 1913, after working for several years on two leading Texas lumber magazines, Dionne started his own
Houston-based lumber journal, the Gulf Coast Lumberman. He edited the trade publication for more than 50 years before selling it.
As an editor-publisher, Dionne was a familiar visitor at Southern sawmills and lumber operations. He was an organizer of the Texas Forestry Association and secretary of the Lumbermen's Association of Texas for nearly 30 years.
He also expanded his publishing enterprise to the West. In 1922, he started what is now called The Merchant Magazine. In the early 1960s, David Cutler joined the Los Angeles-based magazine's staff, where he learned the Dionne hallmarks of practical editing combined with active in-field reporting. Later, Cutler purchased The Merchant and soon realized the need for a similar communication vehicle for retailers and wholesalers in the South.
So, in March 1982, Cutler and editor Juanita Lovret introduced the first issue of Building Products Digest, built on Dionne's bedrock philosophy of editing a magazine "from a practical standoint by a practical man who specializes in knowing."
Although the magazine has grown and matured over the years, Volume l, Number I featured most of the regular features of the issues of today-a monthly calendar, trade association news columns, an editorial by the publisher, Personals, News Briefs, New Products, breaking news stories, and feature articles ranging from merchandising tips and demand forecasts to dealer profiles. The Personals even ended with Hugh Mungus and Freddy Fungus announcing the first personnel change at Mungus-Fungus Forest Products. Climax. Nv.
Consider a few of the articles of 20 years ago: upstart eight-unit retailer Home Depot was expanding its four Georgia stores by 25Vo and dropping automotive departments Scotty's opened an experimental "Thrifty" store in Florida Kentucky Retail Lumber Dealers Association voted to change its name to the Kentucky Lumber & Building Material Dealers Association ... Payless Cashways was expanding whole hog, breaking
ground for six new stores in Texas Lowe's opened two new stores and was remodeling five others in an enormous new 50,000-sq. ft. format-all of which have since been replaced by superstores three times that size.
Advertisers in that inaugural issue included front cover sponsor Dataline, which has since been acquired by Enterprise Computer Systems; glulam producer Bohemia Inc., and Willamette Industries, which a few years later would acquire Bohemia. Interestingly, although pressure treated wood has become one of our largest advertising categories, only a single treater appeared in that first issue, Mid-States Wood Preservers, Simsboro, La. There were far more ads for redwood, cedar and other western woods than for pressure treated products, reflecting both treaters' unfamiliarity with marketing as well as our own western roots.
Several companies that started with us on Day One have remained regular advertisers to this day, including Elder Forest Products, Coastal Lumber Co., Britt Lumber, and Willamette. To them, and the hundreds of others who have joined us along the way, we thank you. Our appreciation also goes out to our faithful readers; what we do we do for you.
March 1982 - Premis lssr.rc.
June 1982 - First annual Pressure Treated Wood Special issue. Starting in 1983, the $pecial issue would be eveqy April.
January 1983 - First Southern Pine lssue.
January 1994 - First pullout, walFhanging Deluxe Galendar of Industry Events.
April 1994 - First annual Top 25 Pressure Treaters ranking.
January tSS - First monthly Buyers Guide.
July 1995 - First Expo Preview for Hardware Show's building pioducts segment.
Seprember 1996 - First 0$B Producers list,
January 1997 - First Web Site Direciory.
October 1SO - First Traders Preview for NAWLA Traders Market.
Apill ffi1 - lrlew publisha Alan Oakes replaces retiring founder David Cutler.
DIGEST'S first issue, March 1982.IaTYPRESS siding has long been a \-rfixture on the beach houses that dot the Atlantic shoreline, especially in the coastal communities of North and South Carolina. But in recent years, industry veterans say the wood has begun to dramatically expand its niche, notjust geographically, but as a decorative interior material. too.
"We're getting lots of inquiries about cypress from non-traditional markets," says John Rogalski, Roy O. Martin Lumber Co., Alexandria, La., one of the country's largest cypress
suppliers. "There's really a lot of new interest from places like Southern California and Colorado."
Tom Reke, specialty product manager for Coastal Lumber Co., Weldon, N.C., concurs. "A lot of our cypress is going into the mountain resorts of Colorado," he says. "When people see it, they want it."
Those who know cypress have little difficulty reconciling the wood's appeal with both the surf and snow crowds. Performance and durability in even the most demandins climates
have long been among cypress's main claims to fame. Yet together, these two characteristics represent only a small part of the wood's heightened profile among builders, architects, remodelers and homeowners.
product. That's really all there is to it."
"Cypress is in a category by itself," explains Reke. "It certainly has more character than competing woods like cedar and pine. It shows just like a fine hardwood, but is much less expensive."
Cypress is becoming valued for its versatility, too. John Haggerty, Williams Lumber Co., Rocky Mount, N.C., points out that almost 807a of the cypress he sells used to be employed as siding. That number has now dropped to less than 50%,mainly because cypress is finding new welcome inside the home.
"Cypress is one of the best woods in the world for interior applications," says Lyman Shipley, Coastal Lumber Co. "It's rich-looking, it's very workable and it takes a stain beautifully."
Trends in interior design also are working in cypress's favor, according to Reke.
"Two years ago, everyone wanted darker woods," he says. "Now we see a lot of light-colored cypress paneling. A lot of people think cypress is rustic, but the truth is, there's nothing rustic about it. It's very modern, very bright and very airy."
Cypress has also become a viable alternative to western red cedar. That
pY,P|E9S remains,,highly prized for strong, lightweight, beautiful siding, but is finding itself increas. ingly in demand for "non{radilional" uses.ftESPITE wood garnering a L/smaller share of the siding market, manufacturers see golden opportunities to sell cypress as a niche product, according to a brief survey by Building Products Digest.
The challenge is increasing cypress' share ofan overall smaller siding market. "Yes," noted Tom Reke, Coastal Lumber Co., Weldon, N.C., "wood (use for siding) is shrinking, with HardiPlank, brick veneer, vinyl, all these competitors. But with the western red cedar issue, the duty, we see this as an opportunity to capture a larger part of the wood siding market."
LaVerne Ard, Marsh Lumber Co., Pamplico, S.C., added, "We find that the sale ofcypress siding is steadily increasing in our market."
"Wood in general is being pushed out of the siding market slowly but surely at an increasing rate," said John Haggerty, Williams Lumber Co. of North Carolina, Rocky Mount, N.C. "However, cypress seems to be holding its own compared to the large decrease in western red cedar being used for siding. This is due to the location of cypress manufacturing as opposed to cedar being for the most part an imported species."
Richard Landry, Richard Landry Lumber Sales, Inc., Alexandria, La., agreed: "It is growing, mainly due to its durability and competitiveness with redwood."
"Our cypress siding sales have grown due to people wanting a natural look on houses in this area," said J.P. "Skip" Doty, A.P. Hubbard Lumber Co.. Greensboro. N.C.
"You are right about wood siding having a smaller market share, but there will always be people who
wood, which grows mostly in Canada, is subject to import duties in the U.S. "We tell people to use cypress just as they would use cedar or redwood," says Haggerty. "lt's great for any number of applications, such as fence boards, porch posts and decks. You can't stick it in the ground and you have to protect it from sun and weather, but those precautions are really no different than they would be with any other wood."
want wood siding."
Most manufacturers saw increased advertising as the key to cypress' success. "The key to growing or preserving the cypress siding market is to get the word out that it is a very good product through advertisement and word of mouth," said John Stevenson, Thompson Hardwoods, Inc., Hazlehurst, Ga. "Also, producers and sellers of cypress musts make sure contractors know the right way to install this product."
Since, conceded Charles Wilson, Wilson Lumber Co., Inc., Memphis, Tn., fewer and fewer yards will stock cypress siding, the key is "merchandising cypress as a niche item your customer does not have to inventory. But he does have to be able to furnish the siding, trim, cornice, timbers, ceiling, paneling, decking or whatever it takes to complete the job. Due to the logistics and demographics of the supply sources, the potential customer has to be able to purchase everything he will need from one source, whether it is one piece or a truckload, and to be assured it is going to be complete and correct when it arrives. Cost then ceases to be a factor. In our
So what's the best way to increase your cypress sales? The key, says Shipley, is simply to show it off.
"When lumber retailers ask us about selling cypress, we tell them the best thing to do is to get their hands on some cypress mouldings or paneling, and display them next to the other woods they sell. Once you do that," he says, "cypress sells itself."
Rogalski agrees: "Show cypress as
present merchandising system, the customer is looking for a complete package with no headaches, and is willing to pay for the certainty that is what he will receive,"
According to Williams Lumber's Haggerty, "Quality is the most important factor in preserving or growing cypress' share of the wood siding market. Overstated warranties by the alternative siding manufacturers have been the main incentive that has hurt the entire wood siding industry the most. Neither vinyl siding nor fiber cement siding will last 50 years nor will they look decent without being painted and repaired time and again."
As for the future, producers predicted a wide range of possibilities for cypress siding; some see sales increasing, some decreasing, and others see it remaining steady.
Thompson's Stevenson said, at least in the short term, "the cypress business will pick up if the cedar products continue to have tariffs. This should cause people to look for an altemative to cedar and cypress is certainly that. I think cypress is a much better product, anyway-I am a little biased."
Coastal's Reke anticipates "peaks and valleys. If the exterior wood market continues to shrink, you'll see more and more going inside. It's the same ebb and flow it's been for years. What will happen is someone will come along who, say, helps prime the product better. Cypress will gain market share. Or competitors will price themselves out, and we'll make it back. There are areas that still prefer wood siding and some, such as resort areas, that demand it, where wood siding is your only choice."
a finished product. Ask your distributors for cypress paneling, cypress cabinets and cypress doors and then just put them on display out on the sales floor. That's really all there is to it."
Haggerty echoes those sentiments, then suggests another tact. "In these patriotic times, it doesn't hurt to let people know where cypress comes from," he says. "Cypress is truly an all-American wood."
Photo by Universal Forest Products55fOO MANY companies at all
I levels in the distribution chain are short-changing themselves by failing to actively promote their products, especially western red cedar," said Brent Stuart, v.p. of purchasing with wholesaler Russin Lumber Corp.
"Manufacturers, distributors and retailers should cultivate strong relationships with each other and work towards increasing their market share by merchandising cedar and creating a demand for it," he said. "They should continually send out a consistent message to help consumers recognize and appreciate the intrinsic value of cedar instead of treating it as just another commodity."
Based in Montgomery, N.Y., Russin sells from Maine to the northern tip of North Carolina and West Virginia. With many customers in the trading area being in the high-income bracket and favoring higher-quality products, price is not a major consideration. It isn't surprising, therefore, that the company devotes about onethird of its business to western red cedar and carries an extensive inventory of top-quality cedar products.
How does Russin Lumber continue
to prosper even during a downturn in the economy? "Our philosophy is to develop a strong relationship with key manufacturers able to provide us with a good product mix, so that both parties will be comfortable knowing we will be working in harmony on a regular basis," said Stuart. "For example, it's not our policy to take advantage of an over-supply situation, and corresponding price change, to move from one manufacturer to another. This means that manufacturers will make certain we always have a good supply of what we need. Some producers even offer us a market exclusive with certain products."
Russin Lumber tries to create a brand awareness with the items it sells, and always ties the producer's name and the WRCLA category to everything it does so that customers begin to associate certain manufacturers' and WRCLA names with value. "We have had great success with that approach," Stuart said. "Over time, customers begin to specify a particular brand, as well as WRCLA categories. As long as we provide fair market value, it makes our job easier."
As an example, Stuart referred to
what his firm does with the popular Architect Knotty category used for decking. Russin rarely goes into the market trying to sell 2x4 decking. They tie Architect Knotty and the producer's brand of Architect Knotty in all their marketing.
Stuart said western red cedar's market share had been under pressure as new products entered the market supported by huge advertising campaigns challenging cedar. An increasing number of consumers will walk into a retail store and ask for certain products by name. As a result, some retailers who used to stock a variety of western red cedar materials reduced their stock and took on non-cedar products. "They have stopped marketing or promoting cedar and are now relying on distributors solely for special orders," said Stuart.
Some composites offer the opportunity for better margins, so some companies put more effort into marketing them. "Our focus on cedar has not wavered," Stuart said. "We believe that when our competitors choose to neglect cedar it offers us an opportunity to pick up the slack and enjoy a bigger piece of the pie."
He added: "We spend a great deal of money on literature and advertising, including displays at customers' yards, and are very involved in trade shows. We have I I salesmen on the road and their prime responsibility is to introduce and promote our product line as well as new products to retailers."
Stuart emphasized that promotion activities are needed at all times to keep market share. "No company should presume to be in such a secure position that it can do without advertising," he said. "Even very large, well-established and easily recognized companies in other industries continue to spend vast sums on advertising."
Stuart called on retailers to work together with distributors to promote the use of western cedar. Progressive retailers do well, but some front-line staff choose to take the easy way out and-unless customers demand a certain item-will not make an effort to interest them in cedar.
"The downside of relying on special orders is that if the retailer doesn't have the item on the shelf, the staff is more inclined to talk the customer into purchasing something that is in stock, instead of getting in touch with the distributor and finding out whether the desired item can be delivered quickly," said Stuart.
PLAYING UP the producer's "brand" adds value lo help sell high quality western red cedar decking.The nation's largest wood preservative manufacturers have voluntarily agreed to phase out CCA for treating non-industrial wood products by the end of next year.
By January 2OO4. the EPA will no longer permit the popular preservative for residential uses, including decks, fences, landscape timbers, picnic tables and play structures.
Congressmen in Florida and California have introduced bills to make the CCA ban immediate.
CCA will be allowed for industrial uses, such as utility poles, pilings and guardrails.
The industry still stands behind the safety of CSI, but has been bombarded of late by unfavorable media reports and lawsuits. A voluntary withdrawal allows the industry and the EPA to attribute the transition to increasing demand lor new wood preservatives. The top chemical producers all offer arsenate-free alternatives-CSI' s ACQ Preserve, Arch Wood Protection's Wolmanized Natural Select, and Osmose's new Nature Wood.
The EPA continues studying CCA,
but so far has not identified any "unreasonable risks" to the public.
The transition certainly will change the face of the $4 billion-a-year treating industry, as the nation's approximately 350 CCA treaters begin switching to new preservatives. Conversion costs-including engineering. permitting, cleanup, installation of stainless steel valves and pumps, and downtime-could total more than $ 100,000. Yet many treaters have already made or begun the switch.
Some retailers also intend to phase out CCA products early, anticipating
Great Southern Wood Preserving, Abbeville, Ga., has agreed to distribute Eon composite decking throughout the U.S.
Great Southern, the nation's second largest wood treater, will use its eight southern manufacturing facilities to distribute Ontario. Canada-based CPI Plastics Group's decking system.
"We've spent a considerable amount of time and energy looking for
the impending ban gives them a "black mark." Home Depot vowed to "stop selling CCA-treated wood well in advance of the EPA deadline," but offered no specifics.
"About six months ago, we began phasing out CCA and selling ACQ," said Hap Veley, owner of Central Builders Supplies, Gainesville, Fl. "People are buying it. We just figured that regardless of how strong CCA was over the years, how dependable it has been, and how much it's saved people in replacement costs, it was time to move on."
a product we could confidently recommend to our customers. and in Eon. we found it," said Great Southern's president and c.e.o. Jimmy Rane.
The distribution agreement covers deck boards, t-clips and handrail components. In addition the two companies will coordinate their marketing efforts, by sharing product knowledge and jointly conducting contractor trainins sessions.
Rough or S4S
Fir also available Dry by special order!
Redwood - boards, dimension, patterns, bevels, fingerjoint, decking, VG sign blanks, lattice, spa skirting & timbers
Western Red Cedaf - boards, dimension, patterns, decking, bevels, fingerjoint, VG sign blanks, Cedar Valley Shingle systems & timbers
DOuglas Fir - boards, dimension, patterns & timbers
Diamond Decking - decking, dimension & handrail
Pacific Coast Cypress - decking & dimension
Alaskan Yellow Cedar - decking & dimension
Incense Cedar - patterns & 7 /8" trimboards
f ET'S begin with the most basic I-lobservation. Every sales rep. manufacturers rep. dealer rep. etc.. is vying for the builder's attention (and ultimately sale).
Each one is trying to convince the builder that they have a product that can do more, requires less maintenance, etc. In short, the product they are selling has more value than the basic model of whatever-the-standard-is; be it tubs, flooring, sheathing or engineered lumber. Of course, most builders don't just "roll over" and accept an upgrade----even when it may not cost any more-and for good reason.
(enlarge it), requiring the carpenter to come back and cut out studs. If the wiring is already in place, the electrician may have to reset the switch and the outside fixture. The nicer door now costs not just the price of the door, but hundreds more in extra work.
What I'm illustrating here is that sales reps are consumed with selling their product as though it were a stand-alone part of a house. But none are. Every product in a home impacts many other products and trades. Because most reps don't know all the ramifications on the construction process, the builder is saddled with the uncomfortable task of policing all product selections and trades and is the one who pays for all the fixes required when upgrades interfere with another trade. It's no wonder that builders are skeptical of new products that (although they may live up to their stated promise) create more hassles than they're worth when other trades are adversely impacted.
time saving benefits, can destroy all the benefits of an expensive engineered lumber floor/beam system in short order if the system is not properly integrated into the home. The top sales reps who are successful in making engineered lumber sales, and maintaining sales to builders, are keen on this issue and work diligently to make sure that every aspect of the sale will work for the trades.
Obviously, there are so many areas where problems can occur that even the best reps can't ensure that l00%o of all interferences will be eliminated. What they do, though, is go the extra mile to understand what issues the trades will have to address working around an engineered lumber system and make sure that they include the builder in the process. Simply reviewing the engineered lumber installation from the other trades' perspective is the essence of consultative selling.
The reason builders don't just accept a new or improved product is because there may be a "hidden" problem that affects another trade. A simple patio door upgrade to a French door may change the rough opening
For the engineered lumber salesman, the story is the same. Great product, super features and benefits, and a potential nightmare for other trades. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC tradesmen and even the carPenters themselves, who are supposed to be the recipient of all sorts of wonderful
What I want you to remember from this article is straightforward and I teach it to all new sales recruits. Every one of your competitors can provide design services to make sure that the proper size joists and beams are specified for any given span and load combination. Virtually all of them also provide some sort of "value added" layout drawing to show the
Most builders don't just "roll over" and accept an upgrade-even when it may not cost any more-and for good reason.
carpenter where to put each piece. YOUR job is to make sure it can work in the house-for the electrician, plumber and HVAC trades, and to be able to make a convincing argument to the builder that you've considered the specific needs of each home so that the builder will not have problems.
Let's look at a typical engineered lumber sales scenario so you can see what we're talking about. The specific issues we'll address are: stool flanges, tub drain and waste, canned light fixtures, flue "B" vent, and floor registers.
The engineered lumber salesmen returns a set of plans with the basic structure designed as such: I-joists at 16" o.c. with no interruptions to the spacing. Because of the length of the house, the last joist space is 12" (center to edge of wall). In the great room, the sales rep changes the spacing to 12" o.c. and uses a wide flange I-joist for a long span. Structurally this is a good design and this is traditionally considered the value-added approach. But it fails. Here's why: the carpenter gets to make an easy decision. Because he's handed an official layout drawing with the manufacturer's warranty, he doesn't need to adjust spacing for any floor penetrations. The joists will be cut when they interfere with the stool, tub drain and waste, and flue chase. And from the carpenter's perspective, well... too bad. His obligation is to follow the directions, i.e. exact centers. If he varies it, he becomes responsible for any interference. Some designers try to solve this problem by stamping drawings with a note 'Joists may be moved up to 3" to avoid plumbing drops," but this is just a feeble excuse to not get involved and learn how to properly design.
Here is the sequence of what happens once the rough framing is complete: The HVAC rradesman is dropped off at the house with a pickup truck of tin; enough to do the house and instructions that he has two days to get in and out. When he cuts a 10" slot for a 10" register under the great room windows, the wide flange joists are cut. (From the designer's perspective, the joists are just lines on a piece of paper, but to a tinner, the joists are 3-I/2" wide, so 12" centers minus 3-1l2" flanges means he has only 8-112" of width to put in a 10" register. He probably won't change the register because he has to add
extra time, order extra material, and ultimately, the registers would look different than every other one in the house.
The 6" supply line to the heat register against the gable end wall will be crushed to fit into the remaining joist space resulting in poor airflow and a colder room. Again, the designer sees only that the maximum spacing hasn't been exceeded;12" is less than 16", but to the tinner, the space is a lot less than 10" because the space is actually 12" minus 8" (the thickness of the foundation wall). The insulator is totally confounded at this point, because he has no way to physically get insulation through the tiny 4" gup.
The space allocated for the B vent in the floor plan may have a joist in it. The tinner can't move the vent to be outside the chase, so out comes the Sawzall and within 60 seconds this joist is cut to make room for the flue.
The plumber is next in line. He has almost no flexibility in setting fixtures. The toilet has to be centered in its assigned space or 15" from a vanity or wall (otherwise the homeowner won't be able to reach for paper comfortably when it's most needed).
The same is true of the tub. There is a spot that is exactly 30"x60", and the water and waste lines will only be on one side. If the joists are not offset for these fixtures, they'll be notched until there's space to get the piping in.
Last up is the electrician. He lays out the canned lights nicely centered in the room, plumbs up and finds a joist smack dab in the way. He won't cut the joist out, he'll just modify the lights so they won't be perfectly centered in the room and let the builder know. Don't be surprised if you're the carpenter and get a call to cut the joist out and move it so the lights can
be installed the way the architect intended.
Now that we can see how our engineered lumber layout is used and how other trades see their place, let's redo the plan as a sales rep/consultant. Put the joists at 16" o.c. starting from one side. The second-to-last space is 12" and the last joist space is again 16". Joists are offset to miss plumbing fixtures, the canned lights, and the B vent, and the offset dimensions are shown on the plan. The builder is consulted about the 12" o.c. spacing for joists in the great room. Should he keep the wide flange joist and use different size vents or narrower flange joists that are deeper to would allow the standard 10" register? Of course changing to a different depth joist means that the carpenter must modify the bearing, so the options to fix this are reviewed well in advance of the
carpenter ever showing up on the site. What we've done with this second solution is try to predict with relative certainty the trades that will be impacted in order to save the builder a lot of nightmares. Nightmares that he's dealt with a hundred times before... until now, when you take the initiative to learn the trades and become his engineered lumber "framing consultant."
(Series to continue infuture issues)
Mobile Lumber Mobile, Al., is relocating its Pensacola, Fl., satellite yard to a permanent site in early April; the firm took over Scotty 's local contractor sales business when the store closed last July ...
Lousiana Lurnber is the new name of Discount Lumber Center, Slidell, La. ...
Buie Lumber, Boerne, Tx., has expanded, adding a 15,000-sq. ft. retail facility
Lowe's Cos. opens new stores the middle of this month in Laredo, Tx. (Joe Guerra, mgr.), and White Settlement, Tx. (Hugh Kelly, mgr.), and late this month in Portsmouth, Va. (Fred Anthony, mgr.); NW Fort Worth (Rhea Crawford, mgr.), and Kerrville, Tx. (Richard Lemoine, mgr.); unveiled new superstores earlier this month in Meridian, Ms. (Ryan Cox, mgr.), and Edmond, Ok. (Chad Sanders, mgr.), and opened a relocation Feb. 22 in Boone, N.C. (Mark Miller, mgr.) ...
Lowe's has begun construction on an additional store in Orlando, Fl., and is reconsidering plans to build in Harlingen, Tx., because the town won't consider a tax abatement
Home Depot this month opens new stores in Lenoir City, Tn., and Fleming Island (Orange Park), Fl., and last month opened in Granbury, Tx. ...
U.S. and Canadian trade officials expect a final ruling on softwood lumber import duties by March 21
Lee Roy Jordan Lumber Co., Dallas, Tx., has opened a new big timber sawmill and remanufactur-
ing facility in Hillsboro, Tx., that will process fir, cedar and redwood; a 54" McDonough resaw and Buss 55 (30") planer were installed
Great South Timber & Lumber is the new name of Daniels Lumber, Lake City, Fl.; Roland Bales, general mgr.
Boise Cascade's Building
M ate rial Distribut ion D iv ision has relocated its Houston, Tx., DC to a new rail-served facility featuring 14 acres of outsid6 storage, 100,000-sq. ft. of interior storage and a new 9,000-sq. ft. office ...
Mullican Lumber Co., a division of Baillie,late last month closed and put up for sale its Appalachia, Va., sawmill; the hardwood flooring plant remains operational...
Burgess Manufacturing of Oklahoma, Guthrie, Ok., has been acquired by a group of Kansas investors, including Bob Burgess, whose father founded the company in 1958
International Paper is closing its Morton, Ms., sawmill
Anthony-Dlmtar had its new Power Joists certified by APAEngineered Wood Systems in accordance with its PRI-400 standard for l-joists ...
Merillat has increased capacity at its cabinet plants in Ocala, Fl., and Culpeper, Va.
Have a notice of your recent expansion, promotions or other company changes published in the next issue of Building Products Digest!
Just FAX your news to 949-852-023'l.
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Siskiyou Forest Products has acquired 12 state-of-the art dry kilns for custom orders ..,
Bowater sold 147,223 acres of N.C., S.C., Tn. and Ga. timberland to Wachovia Timberland Investment Management Group, Charlotte, N.C., for $124.5 million
Armstrong Wood Products, Addison, Tx., received the Gifford Pinchot Award from the Hardwood Forestry Fund for its forest conservation programs
Guthrie Lumber,Austin. Tx., is now distributing Geodeck composite decking ...
Boise Cascade is now distributing Paco Steel & Engineering Corp.'s WoodSteel Beam from its Orlando, Fl., DC ... Boise's timberlands in La. and Al. were thirdparty certified to meet Sustainable Forestry Initiative criteria
BPl is now distributing Cro,ssville Porcelain Stane/USA products from DCs in Memphis, Tn.; Little Rock, Ar., and Jackson, Ms. Master Iile. Houston, Tx.. is stocking Crossville products at 22 locations in Texas ...
New Web site: American Forests and U.S. Forest Service, www.wildfireleaf.org
Anniversaries: McShan Lumber Co., McShan, Al., 95th Gaiennie Lumber Co., Opelousas, La., 65th Great Southern Wood Preserving, Abbeville, Al., 31st ... Burk Lumber Sales, San Antonio, Tx.,21st...
Housing starts in Jan. (latest figs.) jumped 67a to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 1.678 million single-family starts increased 4Vo to 1.345 million; multi-family climbed to a rate of 287,000 for 5+ units permits rose 37o to a seasonally adjusted
Listings are often submitted months in advance. Always veriJy dates and locatktns with sponsor befttre making plans to attend.
Hardwood Manufacturers Association - March 14-16, annual conference, Orlando, Fl.; (412) 829-0770.
Charlotte Woodworking Show - March 15-17, The Merchandise Mart, Charlotte, N.C.; (800) 826-8257.
Texas Home & Garden Show - March 15-17, Will Rogers Memorial Center, Fort Worth, Tx.; March 22-24, Austin Convention Center, Austin, Tx.; (800) 654-1480.
Center for Forest Products Marketing & ManagementMarch 19, annual meeting, Blacksburg, Va.; (540) 231-5876.
Greenprints 2002 - March 20-23, environmental conference & trade show, Hyatt Regency, Atlanta, Ga.; (404) 872-3549.
Ace Hardware Corp. - March 2l-24, spring show, Dallas Convention Center, Dallas, Tx.; (630) 990-7662.
National Lumber & Building Material Dealers AssociationMarch 2l-24, Iegislative conference, Washington, D.C.; (800) 634-8645.
Amarillo Hardware Co. - March 22-23, spring market, Amarillo Civic Center, Amarillo, Tx.t (806) 376-4722.
Hardwood Plywood & Veneer Association - March 24-26, spring convention, Westin Resort, Hilton Head, S.C.; (703) 435-2900.
Apnrr
National Association of Women in Construction - April 4, Austin chapter monthly meeting, Austin, Tx.; (5 l2) 476-5534.
Kitchen & Bath Industry Show - April 4-7, Chicago, Il.; (908) 852-0033.
Texas Home & Garden Show - April 5-7, Dallas Convention Center, Dallas, Tx.; (800) 654-1480.
Wood Component Manufacturers Association - April 6-9, annual meeting, Westin Riverwalk Hotel, San Antonio, Tx.; (7"t0\ 565-6660.
Western Red Cedar Lumber Association - April 7-11, cedar school, Vancouver, B.C.; (604) 684-0266.
International Mass Retail Association - April 10-12, marketing conference, San Antonio, Tx.; (703) 841-2300.
Center for Forest Products Marketing & ManagementApril 9, setting up and operating a value-added manufacturing facility; April 17-18, forest products marketing seminar. Blacksburg, Va.; (540) 231-5876.
Lumbermen's Club of Memphis - April 11, luncheon meeting, Racquet Club, Memphis, Tn.; (901) 682-2838.
Construction Supplier's Association - April 14-16, truss roundtable, Charlottesville, Va.; (770)'l5l-63'73.
International Wood Products Association - April 17-19, 46th annual convention, Indian Wells, Ca.; ('703) 820-6696.
Architectural Woodwork Institute - April 18-20, board meeting/conference, Hyatt Regency, Reston, Va.; (703) 733-0600.
GlobalShop - April 18-20, Chicago, Il.; (800) 646-0091.
Lumbermen's Association of Texas - April 18-20, annual convention & buying market, Wyndham Anatole Hotel, Dallas, Tx.; (800) 749-5862.
National Wood Flooring Association - April 18-20, annual convention. Orlando, Fl.: (636) 391-5161.
American Hardware Manufacturers Association - April 2124, Hardlines Technology Forum, Marriott World Center, Orlando, Fl.; (847) 605-1025.
American Wood-Preservers' Association - April 2l-24, annual meeting, Peabody Hotel, Memphis,Tn.; (817) 326-6300.
Structural Board Association - April 23-25, annual meeting, Tampa/St. Petersburg, Fl.; (416) 730-9090.
Certified Forest Products Council - April 25-27, conference and showcase. Atlanta. Ga.: (503) 224-2205.
At Britt Lumber, we specialize in redwood fence posts, boards, rails, decking and balustersmade directly from the log in our modern sawmill. We're large enough to meet your customers' needs, yet small enough to care and provide the personal service you need.
Elder Wood Preserving, Mansura, La.. is converting its treating operations from CCA to arsenate-free ACQ.
The company expects to treat with CCA until late next month. when the facility will shut down for one week to convert, then hopes to begin producing ACQ by May l.
President/co-owner Joe Elder says the company internally debated how soon was too soon to make the switch.
"We didn't know what would happen, so we decided there was only one true way to find out: to poll our customer base." Elder said. "We conducted a random sampling, and everyone said, 'We're ready to go. How soon can we get (ACQ)?' It was an eye-opener. Louisiana was and always will be receptive of CCA products. It has a long history here. But our gut feeling was to stay ahead of the curve."
The company also has added a new, state-of-the-art stacker and is building nine new storage sheds, enabling the facility to inventory 8 million ft. of lumber. Annual treating capacity remains at 45 million ft.
Southern Building Material Association recognized Smith Millwork, Lexington, N.C., as Supplier of the Year and Jones Lumber, Henderson, Tn., as Dealer of the Year during its recent convention in Charlotte. (See photo coverage, p.22-23.)
Booth awards went to Beautiful Home Supply, Cox Industries, Parksite/PlunkettWebster. Graco and Essroc.
Construction Suppliers' Association will hold its summer manasement confer-
ence July ll-I4 at Brasstown Valley, Ga.
Speakers include Jim Enter, McClure Lumber Co., Charlotte, N.C., and Bob Losyk, Innovative Training Solutions.
Kentucky Lumber & Building Material Dealers Association is sponsoring a building material auction March 23-24.
Lumbermens Association of Texas is accepting registrations for its convention and buying show April 19-20 in Dallas.
Florida has joined the unfortunate ranks of South Carolina, Tennessee and Kentucky as being host to the tree-killing southern pine beetle.
State foresters are now setting up bug traps in Central Florida to gauge how much of a threat the beetle will be to trees this summer. Last year alone, the beetles destroyed nearly 18,000 acres of timber in the state valued at $20 million.
Native to South Carolina, the beetles are about the size of a grain of rice and eat away at the moisture rich layers within trees, making them less marketable to sawmills.
Strong lines and natural features have always been the trademarks of timeless beauty. Which is why Geodeckru is catching the eye of so many different people. This distinct family of composite decking products looks as good as natural wood,but offers the added benefit of being cornpletely m a i nte na nce-f ree.
Offered in fade-resistant brushed natural finishes of mahogany and cedar and a driftwood finish that weathers
to a silver-gray, Geodeck is guaranteed against insect damage, warping and cracking for up to 20 years.
Available in tongue-and-groove or traditional profiles with matching railings, posts and balusters, the entire line promises an easy installation and a completely integrated, beautiful decking system.
Geodeck. lt's innovative. lt's reliable. lt's durable. And you thought beauty was only skin-deep.
! Ramsey, Greg Ostrander. (13) Mark Dunlap, Vera & Paul
I Richards, Mike Layne. (14) Jay Hepner. Art Groce, Alan Bridges
I ltst Mike & Carol'Barbera Eiic Miller (16) Mike Dowdy. Bo"bby
! Bradley. (17) Paul Sehrt David Paik (18) Mike Crawford. Wendy
Hood, Brett Ma1or. (19) Er c Adams. Kathey Wooley, Larry Adams, Cindy Hartley 120) J m Morris. Houston Crumpler, Larry Nichols.
(7) Kim Beil Ron Miller Allison Akes. Lynn Corrias (8) Ken Trainor, Cliff Daniels (9) Bi I Helms, Tom Patterson, Bobby Fichardson, John Lowery, Betsy R chardson, John Gurley, Jenny Holland. Blll Gust. (10) Mary Susan Breeden, Dean Sewell, Angle Godbold (11) Russell Evans, Jim Twining. Dan Kukol. (12) Mike Croker. John Famsey. [er a Harrell. Jim Doug Dupuis. (See next page for ntore photos and p. 19 for convention clverage)
SBMA exhibitors (continued from previous page) (71Clint Darnell, Brad Bedford. (2)Terry Reed, Frank Rose. (3) Jim Hunsuck, Mikir lsaman. (4) Tom Remer, Fred Lockhart, Lawrence Newton, Paul Mitchell. (5) Gill Livingston, Mike Arthur. (6) Dave Leasure, Rick Renshaw, Nicole Cook, Rvan Niles. Dan Taylor, Chip Blalock. (7) Josh kirschner, Bob Branand, Lisa Blackman, Roqer Hockett, Mark Keels. (8) Ed List, MarshI Johnson, Eric
Williamson, Sherrill Green. (9) Scott Chiccarello, Chuck Rierson, Grant Southwell, Rick Briggs, (10) Bryan Johnson, Tom Waller, Gery Keith. (11) Kent Marks, Patrick Warren,
HAND OUTS: At the Inlernational Builders Show Feb. 8-11 in Atlanta, Ga., (1) Ace Contractors Centers' John Neubauer, Sharon Balkey and Les Tracy gave away three pallets full of work gloves. (2) Maytag repatrman Gordon Jump, Mike Heaven, Mark Devine. (3) Jim Schott, Glen Hasenyager, Natasha Valach. (4) Tom Kohlmeier, Steve Killgore. (5) Pam Mitchell, Scott Hoflman, Dave Mason, Huck DeVenzio. (6) Mark Axelrod, Jim Ziminski, Dwayne Cody (7) Brett Cross, Gary Hutchison, Lloyd Brown, Jack Peddy. (8) Jerry Hingle, Melissa Miranda, Kim Drew, Richard Wallace. (9) Roger Roatch, Steve Zylkowski, Dennis Hardman, Kevin Hayes. (10) Heather Kohler, Craig
Flynn. (11) Lisa Salisbury, Chris Haley. (12) Cam Lewis, Doug McNeill, Harvey Joel. (13) David Hebbard, Bick Cowan, Marty Hawkins. (14) Jack Fitzgerald, Ryan Fitzgerald, Jeff Betcher. (15) Stephanie Newport, Julie Cole. (16) Will Speaker, Colleen Karpac, Steve Sleurer, Carl Bisen. (17) Jim Carroll, Melissa Morinelli, Garnett Douglass. (18) Mark & Brenda Young. (19) Kathleen Vardon, Dan Usher, Brian Carlson. (20) Ken Kirsch, Johnny Ghee, Vince Palazzi, Doug Pyron, Neil Pinkham, Steve Roberts. (21) Rick Hagel, Dwight Strickland, Rafe Hagel, Brit Blair. (22) Bichard Chapman, Kent Fairchild, Mike Moran, Bob Ganett. (23) Drew Kappus, Tom Meier.
P,O. Box 2430, 524 Brogden Rd., Smithfreld, N.C. 27577
Call Thomas or Jeff (9r9) 934-4115
Fax 919-934-4956
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Specializing in Stock or Fixed Width Lumber
&W in Yellow Poplar, Red Oak and White Oak, FAS and 1 Common NHLA Grades
All lumber can be Gang Ripped l" thru 12" - Straight Line Ripped
Surfaced S2S or S4S
Please call for exact specification.
Richard Goodyear is the new mgr. at Carter Lumber Co., Easley, S.C.
Don Lewis, ex-Builderway & Pelican Cos., has been named chief financial officer at Moore's Lumber & Building Supplies, Roanoke, Va.
Keith Daigrepont has been promoted to mgr. of PrimeSource Building Products. Orlando. Fl.
Mike Larkin is new to sales at Flint River Forest Products, Peny, Ga.
Jack Sweeny has been promoted to president and chief operating officer of Temple-Inland Forest Products Corp., Diboll. Tx.
Greg Langford is again sales mgr. at Mason Forest Products, Hattiesburg, Ms.
Tyrone Lewis, Lewis Lumber & Manufacturing Co., Mema, Ar., has retired.
J.F. Gullo is the new Mid-South sales mgr. for Sunbelt Material Handling, Alpharetta, Ga. Bradley A. Bedford is the new Mid-Atlantic sales mgr.
Bill Berry will retire March 31 as executive v.p.-forest resources and wood products at Rayonier, Jacksonville, Fl., after 27 years with the company. He is succeeded by Tim Brannon.
Jim Black has been promoted to directorSouthern OSB operations at Norbord Industries. He will be responsible for plants in Guntown, Ms.; Joanna, S.C., and Huguely, Al. Bill Mooney has been promoted to general mgr.Norbord Mississippi. Andy Lollar replaces Mooney as maintenance engineering mgr. at the Guntown facility.
Ben Wood has retired as executive v.p. and general mgr. at Gilman Building Products Co.. Yulee. Fl. He is succeeded by Victor Garrett.
Robert DeRodes has been named chief information officer and v.p.-information technology for Home Depot, Atlanta, Ga. Jerry Edwards was promoted to executive v.p.-merchandising.
Lynn L. Howell has been named production mgr. for Conner Industries, Fort Worth, Tx. He will oversee Conner's eight plants from Moultrie, Ga. Sales personnel Greg Stewart, Mike Graham, Bill Lee, Zane McDonald and Robert Payne have been named team leaders, reporting to Larry Tubbs, v.p.-sales and marketing.
Dale Vliet, Lawrence R. McCoy & Co., is now marketing mgr. for Va.
Robert Harris has been promoted to president of DW Distribution. DeSoto. Tx. Danny Zuniga is the new South Texas distribution specialist. Craig Bussey is the new North Texas distribution specialist. Betty Evans, v.p.-marketing, was awarded the company's Vernon E. Potter Award of Excellence. Ward Payne was awarded the company's 2001 top sales achievement award.
Valerie Steed is now marketing coordinator for TimberTech Engineered Decking Systems, a division of Crane Plastics.
Tommy Maxwell, Maxwell Hardwood Flooring, Monticello, Ar., has been elected president of the Wood Flooring Manufacturers Association. Jim Duke, Memphis Hardwoods, Memphis, Tn., has been elected v.p., and Sam Sharp, Partee Flooring, Magnolia, Ar., has joined the board of directors.
Charles "Chuck" Linnell has been named president of Quality Wood Treating Co. Founder Stephen E. Welter remains chairman.
Dave Goulette has been promoted to the new position ofv.p. and general mgr. at Style Solutions.
Mike Blanchette, Amtech Roofing Consultants, Dallas, Tx., has been elected to the board of the Sheet Membrane & Component Suppliers to the Commercial Roofing Industry. David Harrison, BondCote Corp., Dublin, Va., has been elected promotion chair.
Raymond T. "Tripp" Hyer III, v.p.-sales & marketing, Gardner-Gibson, Tampa, Fl., was re-elected president of the Roof Coatings Manufacturers Association. Raymond T. Hyer Jr., president and c.e.o., Gardner-Gibson, was awarded the Martin A. Davis RCMA Industry Leadership Award.
Jim Hilyard has retired as president of CertainTeed's Roofing Products Group after 19 years with the company. He is succeeded by John Donaldson.
William A. Parsley, president, Carswell Distributing, Winston-Salem, N.C., has been elected first vice chairman of the National Association of WholesalerDistributors.
David A. Brown has been elected v.p. and controller at Plum Creek Timber Co. David W. Lambert has been elected v.p. and treasurer.
George O'Brien has been promoted to senior v.p.-forest resources and wood products at International Paper.
Summer Sublette is now in charge of employee housing at Mungus-Fungus Forest Products, Climax, Nv., report Hugh Mungus and Freddy Fungus.
Forget the fancy circulars and free pens. Forest Tek Lumber, Tavernier, Fl., spends all its ad dollars on rhe beach.
For the last seven years, the dealer has devoted its advertising budget to a contractor incentive program in which customers earn points toward exotic, all-expenses-paid vacations.
Late next month, Forest Tek will take 90 guests (45 couples that each accumulated I92,OOO points) on a trip to Cancun. The company pays for airfare, transporation to and from the hotel, a week at an all-inclusive resort, and all functions, such as a golf tournament.
Twelve guests enjoyed the first trip, a seven-day Caribbean cruise in 1996. Every year since, the excursions-to destinations such as Costa Rica, Puerto Rico and Margarita Island off the coast of Venezuela-have grown by about 10 people.
"The program works well for us," says co-owner Allen Wood. "It often gives us last shot at an order. (Our customers) obviously want the points. If we can be competitive, we'll get the order."
Like airlines' frequent flier pro-
grams, contractors earn points for each dollar they spend. Different products earn different numbers of points, such as a single point for each dollars spent on a commodity item and multiple points for higher margin products. "We'll also offer more points for promotional items," Wood says. "We recently started a kitchen cabinet division that we're promoting, so customers earn six points per dollar spent on kitchen cabinets."
He says, "Our Triad computers track each customer's purchases, so we worked with Triad to create a custom program that keeps track of each customer's points. Every month it generates a points statement for each customer."
Forest Tek hasn't decided where they'll go next year, but the program is a keeper. There will just be one change. "We're raising the points next year," Wood reveals. "We haven't raised them in some time."
Anderson, Ca.: (800) 427-8253. (530) 378-6980
Fax 530-378-6987 Fred Duchi. Don Cherovsky
. Mike Webster Darren Duchi . Dean Duchi
Weed, Ca.: (800) 374-0210.(530) 938-2771
Fax 530-938-3227 Bill Duchi Dennis Duchi
Willamette Industries is now operating as a wholly owned subsidiary of Weyerhaeuser Co., officially completing the years-long hostile takeover.
Willamette's board reluctantly agreed to Weyerhaeuser's $6.2 billion offer-plus assumption of $1.7 billion in debt-after its own planned $3+ billion acquisition of GeorgiaPacific's building products group fell through.
Although the Willamette name may be phased out, at least until June I the company will function as a separate division headed by Weyerhaeuser's senior v.p.-timberlands, Richard E. Hanson, now chairman of the Willamette Interim Operating Committee and executive v.p.-timberlands.
A collection of transition teams comprised of both Willamette and Weyerhaeuser employees are analyzing ways to best integrate the companies. By June I, the teams ile expected to make their recommendations to Weyerhaeuser. Then, the teams will be dissolved, and the changes implemented over the next l2 months.
Several top Willamette executives have left the company, including c.e.o.
Duane McDougall, c.f.o. Greg Hawley, and Eddie McMillan, executive v.p.-building materials group.
Weyerhaeuser said the two companies are already working together at the operations and marketing level, making joint appearances at recent trade shows, for example.
Forestry Terminal Inc., Port Manatee, Fl., has opened a lumber warehouse to distribute South American wood to big box home centers.
The new 170,583-sq. ft. building was completed Feb. 4, just in time for a shipment of Brazilian lumber that will eventually be distributed to Depot and Lowe's locations throughout the Southeast.
The $6 million warehouse was originally scheduled to open in early January. An official ribbon-cutting ceremony was held in late February.
International Paper has agreed to sell its three OSB plants to Torontobased Nexfor. Inc.
WE
The plants, located in Jefferson and Nacogdoches, Tx., and Cordele, Ga., are part of IP's panels and engineered wood business, headquartered in Savannah, Ga.
"The decision (to sell) is part of the company's divestiture program and strategy to focus on core businesses, " said IP's Bill Hoel.
Once the sale is finalized, IP's panels and engineered wood division will consist of five plywood mills, two utility pole plants, one LVL mill and two distribution centers.
Coastal Lumber Co., Weldon, N.C., plans to close its Suffolk, Va., sawmill by April.
Coastal has been cutting its remaining inventory since it stopped taking orders in December. Company officials blame cheap foreign wood for the mill's insolvency.
"Our customers in the U.S. can purchase pine from Brazil, New Zealand and Australia, and have it shipped here cheaper than we can cut it down 50 miles from the mill," said Coastal's Tamara Wade-Roach.
Coastal bought the plant from
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Sheffield Lumber Co., which had run the facility for about 40 years.
During the last 16 months, Coastal has closed a pine mill in North Carolina and one in Alabama. It still operates a softwood plant in Walterboro, S.C.
Lowe's has added nearly 100 animated do-it-yourself project demonstrations to its Web site.
The site features animated technology of how-to projects that range fiom replacing a light bulb to building a deck. Viewers can access the information by watching a demonstration, lis-
Jake Elkins Congleton, 67, president, Congleton Lumber, Lexington, Ky.. died Jan. | | in Lexington.
A native of Richmond. Kv.. he joined the company in 1959, eveniually becoming the third generation of Congletons to lead the business.
He was a former director of the Kentucky Lumber & Building Material Dealers Association.
tening to a narrative or reading stepby-step instructions.
"Using (the demos), we can offer a beginning-to-end solution that helps do-it-yourselfers achieve success for their home improvement projects on the first try," said Lowe's Mark Kleinhenz.
CertainTeed Corp. has introduced estimating software fbr its Boardwalk composite decking and railing.
Boardwalk Estimator allows contractors to estimate costs for deckins
and railing projects by using an onscreen worksheet and checklist that incorporates both standard and custom deck shapes and designs.
In addition, the software generates a complete material list for deck projects. It can also be used to create purchase orders.
"The primary benefit to contractors is that it saves time and reduces mistakes," said CertainTeed's John Pruett.
The system is now being distributed in CD format to distributors, dealers, architects and builders across the countrv.
f,ontact our courtenus staff: Sales: Victoria, f,hris or Janie
Let Us Assisl all lour :E Producl ldentilicatirn Needs
Charles Wesley
Wes" Robinson, 79, retired president, Robinson Lumber, New Orleans. La.. died Jan. I l.
Robinson joined the family lumber business after graduating from Tulane University and serving as an officer in the Air Force.
He was a former president of the National Hardwood Lumber Association and the Mahogany Association, which awarded him the Mahosanv Obelisk of Achievement.
He retired in 199 1 and was succeeded by his son Toto.
Douglas Brasher Jr., 86, retired sales mgr., Kellogg Lumber Co., Alexandria, La., died Jan. 4.
He served with the Armv Air Coros during World War II.
Young Davis, 85, founder, Davis Brotheirs Lumber, Seneca, N.C.. died Dec. 31.
Issac "June" Holt Jr., 82. founder. Holt Lumber Co.. Graham. N.C., died Ian.26.
He founded Holt Lumber in 1945.
Raymond Raillard, 85, former mgr. of the now-defunct Sternberg Lumber Co.. Canyon. Tx.. died Jan l.-
He served with the Army durine World War II.
lfaed Lalels We Can Do Il f,nd Tags trlank Tharmal Tags
Eunille Tags Tharmal Pra-Prinls
lnrenhry Tag* UPG-Ear Coriles
EPA Goneumar Tegs I 2 ol 5 Tags
A single layer plywood flooring system that is said to be both stiffer and cheaper than subflooring has been introduced by Georeia-Pacific.
ToughPly Sturd-IFloor is a 7/8" thick panel that is reportedly 3.86 times stiffer than 23"1 32"OSB Sturd-I-Floor.
It also features a tongue-and-groove configuration.
Circle N0.701
Louisiana-Pacific has introduced a composite wood decking that reportedlv cuts. drills and fastens like wood.
WeatherBest is made of wood and plastic composite and comes with a 10-year limited warranty. It does not require painting or staining and is said to resist termites, rot and decaY.
Circle No. 702
Shakertown has introduced a new pattern to its line of western red cedar shinsles.
Fincy Cuts are 1007o clear and designed to accent a baY window, front entry or gable ends.
The shingles are made of l00Vo edge grain western red cedar and come in square, fishscale, round, octasonal. half cove, diamond, hexagon."arrow and diagonal.
Circle No. 704
Vinyl siding featuring an installation guide to help locate studs and speed up installation is new from CertainTeed Corp.
Monogram STUDfinder SYstem features nail slots on the panel that align with 16" and 24" on-center constructlon.
Circle No. 705
An exterior trim sYstem that reportedly is rot and termite resistant is available from A.E.R.T.
MoistureShield is made of wood fiber and polyethylene resin and is primed and ready for the job site.
Circle No. 706
A depth and miter gauge that is said to improve the accuracy of finished miter joints is new from MAJ, Inc.
J-channel reportedly eliminates the need for J-depth cutters, combo squares and protractors. It is designed foi trim ranging from 5/8" to 1-1l8".
Circle No. 707
An all-vinyl window series with a DP50 rating that meets all coastal building codes for beachfront homes is new from A&H Windows.
Designview Series windows feature double-pane, 3/4" insulated glass and integral nailing fins that seal against drafts and create attachment points for installers.
Circle No. 709
Enterprise Computer Systems has introduced a Windows-based pointof-sale system that is said to be less expensive than upgrading existing system hardware.
ECS Pro is based on the IBM Informix database and Enterprise's Dataline800 system.
Circle N0.710
A caulking gun loader that reportedly is 50Vo faster than manual methods is new from Force-Flo.
The valve is designed for new or retrofit fin-tube baseboard installations to permit zone control of individual rooms.
support tools for natural resource managers.
WebFRIS allows manasers to access forest data. maps and aerial imagery, using only a standard Web orowser.
Circle N0.703
A line of bi-metal hole saws that are said to last 250Vo loneer than competitors and cut througl wood, plastic and metal surfaces are new from M.K. Morse Co.
The loader pumps 1 lb. of material from a 5-gallon pail to a caulking gun or cartridge in about four strokes. It can handle both solvent and non-solvent based products.
Circle No. 711
A three-way thermostatic bypass valve that does not require wiring is new from Eneriee.
It comes with compression fittings for 3/4" copper tubes, and is installed ahead of the fin-tube in the supply side.
Circle No.712
Porcelain stone tile that reportedly imitates the random color of slate is new from Crossville Porcelain Stone.
Morse Master Cobalt saws feature a tooth configuration welded to M3 high speed steel cutting edges to create more stable blades.
Circle N0.715
Saw blades that can be exchansed for new ones when they dull a.e aviilable from Exchange-A-B lade.
Customers pay a discounted exchange price for the new blades. The blades come in three catesories: professional (tungsten carbide ieeth), carbide tipped (for medium-duty work), and steel (non-carbide teeth).
Circle No. 714
Aurora is said to allow virtuallv no water absorption and is designed for commercial walkways, courtyards, patios and porches.
Circle No. 713
ABCD International has introduced closet doors that are supplied in 17-ft. lengths or in custom-built kits ready to fit.
Deco 14 and Deco 12 are all-aluminum and fitted with a self-cleaning, adjustable roller system
Circle No. 716
Forest Technology Group has introduced a Web-bai6d geogiaphic information system wittr decision-
is ovoiloble by circling the corresponding Reoder Service number opposite the inside bock cover ond sending the form to New Products Editor FAX io 949-852-0231, by E-moil to rfoy@ioc.net, by moil to 4500 Compus Dr., Suite 480, Newport Beoch, C0.92660, or by colling (e49) 8s2-t ee0.
A garage storage sYstem that doesn't interfere with doors or openers and is said to be less expensive than conventional shelving is new from ITC Manufacturing & Powder Coating.
Hyloft is made of steel and comes complete for one 4'x4' storage section.
Height is adjustable from 16" to 28", providing up to 35 cubic ft. of space.
Circle No. 719
Nickel Faucet Newcomer
Hanssrohe has introduced a new oolisheJ nickel finish to its line of bathroom faucets and accessories.
A turnkey exterior siding system that features installation training and a tool program for certified dealers is new from Norandex/Reynolds Distribution Co.
Everlast comes with both Pre-finished and job site coating options. It includes a lifetime limited walranty.
Circle No. 720
wThe Axor Carlton collection also comes in chrome, chrome/gold, brushed nickel, polished brass, and a mix of brushed nickel and polished brass.
Circle N0.717
Bubble Bath Bonanza
Lasco has introduced a messaging whirlpool tub made of Lucite cast acrylii with three spa-like settings. Champagne Bubbler has a control panel that features constant bubble action. wave mode and pulse mode. tt features a pre-leveled ABS suPport base and slip resistant f-loors.
Circle No.718
Gardner Bender has introduced a new coaxial cable stripper for cutting and stripping RG-59 and RG-6 coaxial cable.
The stripper features a hexagon shaped stripping station that strips the outer jacket while an l8-gauge stripping station strips the center conductor.
Circle No. 721
Oregon-Canadian Forest Products has introduced Brazilian redwood for exterior decking that reportedly resembles the look of clear all heart redwood.
nized, full-load value fasteners ranging from l-112" to 2l/2" in fength and l3 I, 148 and .162 in nail diameter.
Circle No. 723
An internal pipe grip that connects rails to steel fence posts on interior corners of a wood fence is available from Simpson Strong-Tie Co.
The wood is available in S4S deckine lx4 throush 5 / 4x6, 2x2, 4x4 and handrail systems.
Circle No. 722
Paslode has introduceda new fastening system that is said to be at least three times faster than hand nailing. The Positive Placement system weighs up to 9 lbs., fires up to l0 heat-treated, hardened steel fasteners per second. It has a magazine capacity of 44 to 48 ICBO recog-
Three to four PGTIC2 connectors can be installed on a 2" vertrcal pipe, each with a ll4" hex head bolt. Wood rails are attached with SDS 1/4" screws. then boards are nailed in place.
Circle No. 724
51S2E Boards
Bevel Siding
Pecky Paneling
Log Gabin Timbers Shingles
Larch, Roc(y Tl'orpsor. 6r Je'f \epsa. Jelv
Becker. (7) Jim Whitaker (8) John Sa mon
Dave Kus. (9) Bob Paulson Todd Fox, Jim
Bolton, Clay Wallrn (l0) Jay Gr mes, Ed
Chiverton, Tim Mazur (11) Mike Jones, J m
Bosler. (12) Bill Richardson. Tracy Daniels.
(13) Barry Flood, Matt e Mattox (14) John
Fauceglia. (15) Larry Lang, Jared Lux. Jim
Powell (16) Lammert Jagt, John Hamilton
(17) Dale Cunningham, Darryl Doug as (18)
Errcr Kraurer. (19) Jetf Hovda. Brian Dooey
(20) Paul lfju, Craig Schumacher (21)
Johanna DuIour. (22) Joe Alonso. Fran
Sub ette. Cathy Edman (23) Linda Vasil, Julie
Teig (2a) Tamy Woodward, Aaron Hock (25)
Ken Benzmil er. Matt Gunler.
FENCETECH 2002 drew crowds to Las Vegas Feb 11-14. (1) Horst Spiess, Chad Hobart. (2) Judy Williams, Phillip Coleman. (3) Carol Ann Berry, William Whittaker. (4) Mike McQuiston, Sam Moran, Richard Tremblay, Joel Winters. (5) Scott Ricke, Mike Chaney. (6) James Conley, Jeffrey Musgrove. (7) Jeanie & Richard Leines. (8) Don Zuckerman, Tim Marron. (9) Ed Zurevinski (10) Jeff Duerr, Gail Nelson. (11) Rich Peterson, Brian Neely, (12) Jack Cuttle (13) Chuck Nelson, Vernon Lambert. (14) Greg Burkholder, John Harsch, John Forbis. (15) Racy Florence, Gina Vinson, (16) Scott Meek, Charlie Schweitzer. (17) Joyce Jean,
84 Lumber is puttin-u the finishing touches on 20 new stores, preparin-u to open them all on April 3.
Of the 20. lU arc folmer Payless Cashways locations, including Tulsa. Ok.; Bessemer, Al., and four in Dallas. Tx. 84 Lumber also plans to open a component manufiicturing plant in Lithonia. Ga.. in October.
Ratcs: 15 uortls iirr \15. rdditionrLl utrrtir 70c cr. I)ltonc llunrbor c()unls ns I u,or-il. ruklrcss ls 6. Headlirtc or ccrlettrl copr. 56 pcf linc. l)filltc
HARDWOOD PRODUCTS, INC.
RI.t(;IO\AI_ S,\t.t.ls t\t,\NA(;ERINI)t STRIAt. PROt)tr("t'S (;ROUP
('H['l i: li grourng. tiircr'.iIicrl nriLnufaclLring lnrl snlcs or-glrrtizliliort lookirtg lol a pro\ cn. highly'nrotilatcrl llcgionul Sirlcs \lgr. Thc tcr ritorv would colcr S.(.. (iir.. ,\1.. Tn. tnd i\ls. ('andidates nlusl llr\c tlrc rlcsirc and skills to Iirrgc into rrr-u rlrrkcls lrntl establish ir slr()r! eLr\tonrcf hrsc. Orglnizlrlional. conrntttniclrtiott entl elosing :kills lLre rccc\\lr\'. A conrprehcttsirc salarr lrntl bonrr: packr::e. pltr: -1011 lrrrl Itcalth bertclits lrrc lrrlrilrtblc. I1 rou rtrc ittlct ested in hclllin-r: slriLpc lhc futurt rtl rL grouing business. scnrl rcsrrrttc artd srlarr hi\1or\ t(r: SVP - SAl.l;S & l\{ARKEI'l\C. ljlr 751 .i-1r -131s.
box ot' s1.lt'cilrl bortle r. \(r cl. ColLlnrn ine h lLlc: \-15 e atnera rcltlr. \-55 il' \\e set tl)!. lvpe. Narnt's of adVcfti\cf\ Ltrinl lt [rrtr nLl]llltcr rillilt()l l)c lclca\e(i. ,\rlrlrcss rcplie's to hox rtLrrnhcr shoutt in ari e/ir Ilrrilding Products I)igest. .l-s00 Campus l)r., Stc. .lll0. Newport llrrch, ('a. 92660-1872. \lrikc chccks purublc 1o (lutlcr Publishing. l\lrril eopr tLr rhorc rLtklrcss. Irrir to ()-19 t5l 0l.ll olcirll t9-19) lt52-1990. I)crrillirc lor copr is llre l0llr ()l lltc ntonth. I'lIrrcttl nrust accoil'rpiilt\ crt1t1 ttttlcss voLr llrr c estirlrlishcd credit rr illr u:.
40'x 50'x 12'
$5,7 42
Rt,t\t,\N trF Ac'I'U RIN(; S I'I,t(' l,\I-IST. rcnlcl nrrlch on 1". 1". -1" rntl J" lLrrntrer'. Otltcr plrllfn\ including floorin.l. ceiling. log siding lrntl nrorc. Custonr ( ('.,\ tlcrLtrng. Cttstortt
KI).\'1 \\'c rnrnLrllrclrrre :ioutlrcrn Ycllou Pinc
lrJ lLrttl lr(r S-1S lrntl Irrtltnrs. C'ell Billr Rvrl:. LlLrre l l-Lrnrbcr ( o.. I.rirrrcl. \l\.. (60 1) ()-+(.)
7(r9(r: I-ax 601 -+13 l l +.
Keep up with the Southern building material market.
Subsclibc 1o llrriltlirrg I)rorlucts l)igrsl
Matching clients with candidates for win-win solutions! !!
I l7l ('ountr,- ('lub Lanc lllT-J57-9995
Fort W()rlh. I X 76l ll Far t l 7-4.51 999fi ( larv Nlorris-Presidcn( | \l;rrl: ( i;rtr tn CR M,'t ti'..,'ttt \\ cl'.tle tr rr rr.CR l\1, rrlis.rlrrr
\\'E llUY ANI) Sl]l,l, PANFll, S'l'RlI'S
I)lrriootl. OSl3. palticlcboirrd irrrLl N4l)[: bv llre lrrreLlorLtls. I-unrbL-r SoLrrcc. l'lronc (1100.) t7-1 |95.1. Iur ttli-576 fi7l.l. errril
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Universal Forest Products (Moultrie)..............(229) 985-4009
Universal Forest Products (Union City)... .......(770) 472-3000
Weyerhaeuser C0................(800) 282-3370 (404) 355-5971
Glen Oak Lumber & Mi11in9 ............................(8OOJ 242-8272
McEwen Lumberco .......1502)297-8321
Weyerhaeuser C0................(800) 752-6032 (502) 368-3331
loulsntl
Elder Forest Products..........(800) 256-7197 (318) 625-8141
Elder Lumber Co., Roy 0 ,............{800) 844-061 5
Elder Wood Preserving.,......(800) 467-801 8 (31 S) 964-21 96
Landry Lumber Sales, Richard.......................(318) 442-0453
Martin, Roy O. ...............(800) 299-5174 Southern Pine C0unci1....................................(504) 443-4464
Willamette Industries......... ..... ..(318) 255-6258
Mrsslssrppt
Columbus lumber...............(800) 654-6743 (601) 833-1990
Hankins 1nc,..................,......(888) 837-9286 (662) 837-9286
Hood Industries .....,. ....,.(601 ) 735-5071
Shuqualak Lumber C0....................................t601 ) 793-4528
......(941) 768-5248
Hoover Treated Wood Products, lnc. .............(904) 258-7818
Lumbermen's Unden,trriting A11iance...............(800) 327.0630
McEwen Lumber Co. (Delray Beach).............(56j) 276-5j55
lilcEwen Lumber Co. (Jacksonville)...............(904) 7S3-0170
McEwen Lumber Co. (Orlando)............... .......(407\ 299 4280
McEwen Lumber Co.
Southern Lumber Co. ..........(800) 748-8919 (601) 362-0019
Weyerhaeuser Bl\,lD ...(800) 858-0310 (228) 865-1077
A&H Windows......... ......(866) 229-7617
Chadsworth's 1.800.C01umns........................(800) 486.21
or call (949) 852- l990 or mail to Building Products Digest, 4500 Campus Dr., Suite 480, Newport Beach, Ca.92660-1872.
For more information on products or companies (see list at right), circle the appropriate Reader Service FAX Response number(s):
For more infonnation from advertisers, use FAX Response numbers in brackets.
Arch Wood Protection If04]...................5
Boston Pacific t1211......................,..,.....29
Bowie Sims Prange tl28l .......'..............38
Britt Lumber I1091.........................'......18
Building Products Digest............'.........36
Capital Lumber Co. [103]...........'...........3
Cedar Creek 11271.................................37
CertainTeed WeatherBoards FiberCement t1051 --..*,-6, 7
Custom Lumber Manufacturing Co. t1ls].............. ..............26
Crumpler Plastic Pipe, lnc. 11221....,....32
Do it Best Corp. [l29]................Cover III
Elder Forest Products, Inc. [126].........35
Elder Wood Preserving [102] ....Cover II
Everwood Treatment Co. [130]Cover IV
FasPac Inc. [114] ........,.,.25
Geodeck tllll ................................,.20, 2L
Hankins, Inc. [l17] ......,..27
Huber Engineered Woods [l0l]..Cover I
Jordan Lumber Co., Lee Roy [107].....13
Landry Lumber Sales, Richard ll3ll..27
LJB Lumber Sales [125]..........'............33
Lumber Tag Specialties [120]..........'....29
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News or Comments? We welcome your comments on articles, the magazine, or news of your company such as promotions, new hires, expansions or acquisitions (rftls is afree service).
Savannah Wood Preserving Company trr81.............. ..............28
Sierra Pacific Industries t1081......'...'...17
Siskiyou Forest Products [1 16].............27
Welco Lumber Co. [110].......................19
Skookum Lumber Co. [112] ......,...23
Swan Secure Products 11231,,.,...........,.32
Welco Lumber Co. USA [110]..............19
Willamette Industries t1061 ....................8
Williams & Sons, Inc., Jerry G. [113]..25
Williams Lumber Co. of North Carolina lr24l ..................33
Wilson Lumber Co. [119] .....................28
Scott Parker and Bob Morgan have over
"Store design, advertising, flexible pricing programs, computer technology-these Do it Best retail programs help me be the best retailer I can be," said Scott Parker; owner of Parker Do it Best Lumber. 'And the vear-end rebates hetp me grow my business profitably."
"I use Do it Best Corp. as my purchasing staff so I can focus a[[ of my efforts on seMng customers," said Bob Morgan, owner of Gitt-Roy's Complete Hardware Stores. "I get [ow up-front prices and at the end of the year, I get a consistently high rebate that I channel back into my business to open new stores."
What woutd YOU get as a member of Do it Best Corp.? You get the onty proven retail system in the industry that combjnes low up-front prices, a fu[[ line of products, and returns consistentty high rebates to help you business. But don't take our word for it, just ask Scott and Bob. 0r any of our other 4,350 members