12 minute read
Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
Dear
Navidaters, When my son was in yeshiva high school, recently, he was friendly with a neighborhood girl whom he had known since elementary school. He frequently went to her home, and she came to ours. They talked, played games, and sometimes walked in the neighborhood. The friendship continued through high school. My son’s yeshiva had a strict “no girl” policy. Boys were not allowed to be with any girls anywhere, at any time, for any reason. One Shabbat, my son and his friend were walking in the neighborhood. It seems that one of the school rebbes saw the two and reported him to the principal who told my son and me that he disobeyed the school policy and the next time this happens, they will expel him from the yeshiva.
I was furious. I explained to the principal that all the kids are doing are talking and walking down the street. We know the girl and her family for years. My son and the girl are good friends, and we were hoping that, perhaps, down the line this would lead to a long-term more serious relationship, possibly a shidduch. My pleas fell on deaf ears. The yeshiva would not budge from their policy. We had to be extremely discrete and hide their contacts from the yeshiva and any neighborhood “snoopers.” When they dated, they did so outside the neighborhood lest someone find out.
I hear this similar situation from current yeshiva parents. What would you advise parents on how to handle this policy? Why should kids have to choose between friendships and getting expelled from a yeshiva because of a strict no-girl policy?
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
Iunderstand both sides – your role as a parent and the school’s role. Nonetheless, I believe that if a school makes a policy that is known to parents before they enroll their children, parents must respect it. Parents need to choose a school with their children that matches their lifestyle, hashkafa, and practices. Unfortunately, many families in Jewish communities are aspirational in their choices and are beset with predicaments like differing from the school’s technology, tzinius, and entertainment policies.
In a community where there are several schools, it’s OK for a school to make a policy constraining teenage engagement with members of the opposite gender. The leadership of the school, both professional and lay leaders, have developed an identity and focus for the school and limiting teenage socialization for their own students is a reasonable policy for the population they serve. If it is not something that was articulated from the get-go, then you could complain with some justification.
It is of utmost importance to all of your children that you speak of the school with respect and commitment to compliance. Badmouthing the school is a terrible example which will yield disrespect for you and authorities in the long run. It’s not the chinuch you want to give to your child even if you feel justified. This is not a right or wrong situation. This is a situation where compliance is the issue, not a hashkafic difference because you chose the school knowing its policies and orientation.
You need to sit down with your spouse and your child and think about how to proceed further. Is this the right place for your son? Is this a one-off? Where is your son holding? Think carefully before you hold the discussion and before you take action.
The orientation of a school which is the only choice in a community obviously needs to be more inclusive.
The Shadchan
you as a family align, and make the decision where you would like to send your kids to school. This way they can act the way they are being brought up without breaking school policy.
No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service.
Michelle Mond
Have you ever seen a sign outside an establishment stating, “No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service”? What would happen, pray tell, if you walked into this establishment without a shirt and shoes? Would the owner’s response (i.e., kicking you out) be warranted? If you own a rental property and a rule on the contract is “no smoking,” what would you do if you found out your renters spent the weekend smoking? (You see, rental properties are on my mind these days as we have started the Edelweiss Vacation Rental in Baltimore.) Now, let’s say you are the renter looking for a property. If you are a chain smoker, would you rent a vacation home that is a non-smoking facility? You would be a fool to do so. Why then, does your son go to a yeshiva school whose rules are strictly against boy/girl relationships if this does not align with your hashkafa? And if the answer is that you want the great yeshiva education, then you will have to be maskim the rules that come with your son being in such a yeshiva.
Note that I am not even talking about the issue at hand – platonic relationships. What I am saying is use common sense to understand why the yeshiva is threatening to expel your son – his actions are going against the school’s rules.
This brings me to an important lesson that boils down to chinuch. Children are allergic to double standards and inconsistency. A child will grow up very confused if he is being told one thing in yeshiva and another thing at home. You ask: “What would you advise parents on how to handle this policy?” To this I answer, it is not about the policy. Figure out where
The Single
Rivka Weinberg
Iam sorry to burst your bubble, but platonic relationships do not exist. I find it hard to believe that your high school-aged son was simply talking and walking with his good female friend. I know that may sound harsh, but it is most likely the reality, so it is important to put it on the table from the start.
In regard to the yeshiva’s policy, you knew what the yeshiva’s policies were before you decided to enroll your son there. If you did not agree with the yeshiva and the hashkafos they hold by, then you should have sent him elsewhere. I think there is a lot of value in this specific policy, but I am not going to elaborate on that, because I believe there to be a larger issue at hand.
Honestly, I am quite disturbed by how you are handling this entire situation. What message are you sending to your son and this girl by encouraging them to hide from their rebbeim and others in the neighborhood? Do you really believe they are not using the sneaky tactics that you have taught them to get things by you? You are teaching two extremely impressionable adolescent individuals to lie and go behind people’s backs, and in doing so, you are taking away kavod from the yeshiva and the rebbeim instituting these policies. Did you process that?
I also find it fascinating that you pull the shidduchim card. I always love the good old shidduchim card, especially when it is used in the most ridiculous and absurd scenarios. Instead of focusing on your son’s shid-
duchim in elementary and high school by having him hang out with this girl who you hope to see potential with, I suggest you focus on teaching him what it means to be an honest mensch who does not go behind people’s backs, especially with girls. These are the crucial years that should be spent emphasizing the importance of working on one’s middos and respecting others. You are encouraging your son to be the boy who every Zaidy instructs his granddaughter to avoid. Trust me, you do not want your son to get the reputation of being the sketchy kid who sneaks around.
I highly recommend you rethink this policy of yours, as it is entirely counterproductive to the chinuch you are giving your son by sending him to a yeshiva that has this policy to begin with. Please do yourself, your son, and this girl a favor by leaving shidduchim up to Hashem. If they are supposed to end up together, then they will, without needing to compromise their values and morals in the process.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
Parents have the absolute right to allow, and even encourage, their
son to socialize with his girlfriend.
Yeshivas have the absolute right to prohibit such socializing and to impose their moral code upon its students.
The very clear and obvious solution is to avoid such conflicts by enrolling children in schools that mirror the family’s hashkafa.
Today, fortunately, every major Jewish community has a wide variety of available yeshivas, ranging from the far-left to the far-right on our religious spectrum. Responsible parents must choose their neighborhood/shul/yeshiva wisely.
Recent events have certainly taught us that all Jews, everywhere, are brothers and sisters; but, creating unnecessary friction by futilely trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is counterproductive. While we might never fully agree with some of our co-religionists, we can, nevertheless, understand and respect their different points of view.
Correspondingly, an Israeli friend of mine recently travelled to Dubai on business. He reports that while his visit was fruitful and respectful, he and his new Arab partners cannot possibly reconcile their very different cultural backgrounds. Similarly, it is disingenuous for you to expect your son’s strict yeshiva to accept your more lenient point of view.
Rudyard Kipling wrote, in 1889, that it was impossible to reconcile British culture with that of the indigenous population in India, because, “East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.”
However, Kipling concluded that with good will and understanding, people with very different points of view could, nevertheless, understand and respect each
It can become very confusing for children when they are taught one thing at school and another at home.
other, “though they come from the ends of the earth.”
Pulling It All Together argue with store owners The Navidaters or employees when the rule is Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists enforced. Masks don’t work! Why do I have to wear a mask? This rule is ridiculous
Talready! I have hank you for writing into our and many seen people do this column! I believe that many read- families will continue in front of their own chilers may relate to your predicament doing things their way be- dren. My feeling is that regardless – sending their children to yeshivas cause some of the rules don’t of personal opinion, and especially and believing that some of the “rules” account for human nature. In in front of children, though we may are unfair or simply “too much.” The such situations, I believe it is very disagree with a rule, if we enter someschool says we can’t have a TV, but important to maintain an open dia- one’s establishment, we must follow we watch certain shows in pri- logue with children. It can become those rules. Of course, this is a vate because that’s ridiculous. The very confusing for children when they very imperfect analogy because it is yeshiva says he can’t talk to girls, but are taught one thing at school and an- kind of easy to put on a mask for the all the boys do it. It is not the yeshi- other at home. Children should not twenty minutes you will be spending va’s place to tell me how to live my be forced to keep secrets as it is not in the store. What do you do when life in my home. an age-appropriate task. Keeping you feel an establishment’s rules are
Families have been doing secrets teaches children that there is too strict or unrealistic? Though things their way in their homes for something inherently wrong with the easier said than done, the bottom a very long time. Many families are child or the home. It also may send line truth is that you go to a different told to send their children to schools/ the message that we are better than establishment. One in which you feel yeshivas to the right of where they the rules and we do what we want. you can keep the rules. One in which hold with the belief that the child will We only have to look to the a child and the child’s family will be walk away from the yeshiva system “mask” to infer a wonderful lesson. celebrated; not penalized. Children more to the right or at least holding People have different opinions when should feel celebrated at school! like his/her parents. it comes to mask wearing. I have It is very difficult to stop a
Let’s be real for a moment. The seen people walk into stores that friendship that has taken on a life rules most likely will never change, clearly state Must Wear a Mask and force. I think that as a parent you can explain to your son both sides of the coin. Validate his frustration and share your own. (I don’t want to delve too deeply into my opinion of the ramifications of making children sneak to do what people have been doing since the beginning of time, and what sometimes goes on in yeshivas when strict rules like these are enforced. And I won’t get into the psyche of the children who are “caught” and the message it sends them about themselves and Yiddishkeit. Or, how so many children end up off the derech because they feel so penalized, frustrated, unwanted, and angry.)
At the very end of the day, it is my personal belief, based on the many families I have worked with over the years, that children do best in an environment that makes them feel good about themselves...in an environment that is warm and nurturing and understands the needs of the child; al pi darko. If every part of a parent’s body screams This school is stifling my child, then it is the parent’s responsibility to consider how this is impacting the child and think of potential alternatives.
Sincerely, Jennifer Mann
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
