Polemik 7

POLEMIK 7 A few months ago, under the headline “NOTOPIA – is less a warning than a prophecy of doom”, the British Magazine Architectural Review (Issue 1432, June 2016) made a harsh attack on today’s market driven global mainstream culture, making it still more difficult to tell the difference between the recent architectural trends in cities across the world. Defining Notopia IMG: 3022870_Editorial -image.jpg (architectural-review.com) as a symptom of the fact, that the edge of Mumbai will look like the beginning of Shenzen, China, and the centre of Singapore will look like downtown Dallas. They even claimed, that you don’t have to leave London, to find “this pandemic of generic building”, called Notopia.

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Without judging, one could say that now you don’t even have to leave the city of Aarhus, to get a glimpse of Notopia. In the harbour, you can find all sorts of styles. You can find Dutch pragmatism, new Nordic iceberg style, Swiss minimalism, large scale curtain wall modernism on stilts, and some other versions of contemporary international styles. And if you turn POLEMIK 7 your back against the old november 2016 city, you might think for a aarhus independent publication second, “oh my God, where run—100 printed by plotteriet am I”? polemikpolemik@gmail.com

Is it a shame? is it a www.polemikpolemik.tumblr.com quality? Is it a condition editorial: jeanette amby, jens vium skaarup, johan eg nørgaard, kristoffer that we better get used codam, mathias skafte andersen, niels eli kjær thomsen, sara emilie Nilsson, to? Or are there any troels heiberg frandsen alternatives?

These questions will, among many others, be discussed during this lecture series. We will take the freedom of being a bit conservative,

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when Michael Sheridan gives his version of “the best of Nordic architecture”, leading us through the traces of architects like Gunnar Asplund’s, Alvar Aalto’s, Arne Jacobsen’s and Ralph Erskine’s achievements, or when Juhani Pallasmaa leads us through those characteristics of the Nordic culture, that in his opinion give rise to the identity of Nordic architecture. From another position, Mari Hvattum will question the idea of a certain Nordic identity. In her opinion “the essence of place” is a stagnated idea that tends to write of the local and disregard the potential dynamics of a place.

And isn’t this exactly what Jens Thomas Arnfred

and Tegnestuen Vandkunsten have done, when looking for social potentials in dense city slots or in a landscape’s curvature, constantly haunting new architectural concepts for human engagement and interactivity, created by radical ideas and cheap industrial materials.

And that leads us to the raw but not less extra-

vagant concepts of Jens Thomas Arnfreds wunderkind student Bjarke Ingels, who have brought this strange mix between radical anarchistic ideas and pragmatic solutions

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to an extreme, yet still with the ideal of giving more to the place than you take.

And whatever huge contrast you can imagine between

the “yes is more” fast and doubtless Bjarke Ingels, to the distinguished thoughtful Swedish gentleman Johan Celsing, the ideal of giving more than you take is not less expressed. However, it is not necessarily social demands, or contemporary ideas of low energy consumption, cradle to cradle or low carbon footprint that interest Johan Celsing, but rather how a subtle tectonic and material awareness, and some strange traces from music, poetry and art can imbue architecture lasting values, reaching back and forth in time, like you will find in the works of one of Celsing’s heroes, Sigurd Lewerentz.

Which leads us to the first speaker of Nordic Perspectives,

Mr. Sami Rintala, who is actually everything else than Lewerentz, Celsing or Ingels. But there is actually one coincidental connection, yet another mentor/student link, that occurred to me two days ago, when I received an email from Juhani Pallasmaa: “PS. Sami Rintala was my student and certainly one of the most talented students I have

”INTRODUCTION TO THE LECTURE SERIES ever NORDIC PERSPECTIVES”

had anywhere”.

Thomas Bo Jensen

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Professor, cand.arch, PhD Teaching Programme 2 (Habitation)

Velkommen tilbage til Polemik.

Debatten om arkitektur kan starte mange steder. I denne udgave af Polemik tager vi udgangspunkt i to: forelæsningen og panelet.

I forelæsningsrækken Nordic Perspectives diskuteres det nordiske i alt fra global spredning til sociale kerneværdier. Polemik har ydmygt spurgt om lov til at hjælpe med at lade denne meget vigtige debat fortsætte udenfor auditoriet. Professor Thomas Bo Jensen har formidlet kontakt til forelæsere Sami Rintala og Johan Celsing, der begge har stillet materiale til rådighed. I denne udgave trykker vi første halvdel af Sami Rintalas artikel ”Architecture + teaching”, Johan Celsings artikel ”Decorum” samt Thomas Bo Jensens introduktion til begge arkitekter.

Læses Polemik 7 fra den anden ende, finder man udpluk fra debatarrangementet Polemik Live. Vi håber, at disse udgangspunkter for debat kolliderer et sted på tegnesalene.

God læselyst, Redaktionen

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Sami Rintala: Thema_Architecture +Teaching_SR.docx Part 1/2 16

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1. The House and the Garden

While the main problems to solve with architecture earlier in history have been many, extending from industrial mass production, defense against organized violence to monuments symbolizing power structures, today the primary challenge is to find ecological answers that help the humanity to find a sustainable balance with nature.

As our systems become cleverer, the main environmental problem is not any more energy but waste.

While half of the humanity now lives in urban areas, we must also remember that there is the other half still living in the emptying countryside, which is also where the valuable resources are. Furthermore, there are many other types of urbanism than the mechanized metropo-

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litan sprawl. In fact, majority of discourses on architecture seem to be about the growing megacities as most of the highly educated consults live and work there. In South India there are 100.000 people cities that don’t really resemble a city but something between a jungle and dense housing with gardens in between.

You could almost call these recycling IMG: Athens-Ampelokigardens, as they produce little waste.

Therefore we should also have an inte- pineighbourhoodsf-1.jpg rest in the rural areas; there is something (www.photobucket.com/ to learn from the edge and in between user/gm2263) areas, where both resources and the tradition of how to live in balance with them still exist today.

At the same time, we, the Western Civilization urbanites, are by now quite completely alienated from nature.

For instance, making a fire seems to be more and more dangerous affair. Doing that in a city is against health and safety, while in nature it raises objections: ”You IMG: 40821.jpg (www. shouldn’t take those branches from nature!” team-bhp.com) Thus, this is our experience with nature; that one shouldn’t do anything with it.

And this without realizing that all our food and the energy come from nature, all our clothes come from nature and everything we live in comes from nature. We are using nature all the time, the question is just how we garden it.

People grow up in architecture, IMG: Bradford-City-s-Valand some of us have repeated dreams ley-Parade-FIRE-570737. of a certain house from our childhood jpg (www.team-bhp.com) throughout our adult lives. Our subconscious continues to live in that house long after we have moved onwards.

This type of a house, where dreams and reality merge, is a very important tool to structure the vastness around us, to feel safe, to store one’s personality in. In other words, houses both represent and store our central values.

The task of architecture is to create a fruitful collage of the house and the garden, to house the mind and

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to garden the matter. We should garden as much as we do construct. To garden means to manage, to take care of. Make houses that people learn to care for, and they will be maintained for ever becoming sustainable in the very sense of the word. Perfected architecture is indeed able to bring us back a piece of the Paradise Lost. (Paradise = walled or secret garden in Old Persian).

2. The Inhabited Resource

As we are facing the planetary challenges of the 21st century and become more certain that there are limits to growth based on natural resources, even the ones that are common like clean air and water, one can see a slow but steady and positive improvement in limiting the over-harvesting and polluting. Important observation has been that the quality of life does not get worse by less consumption, but in fact gets better and healthier over time. Realization that true economy based on incorporating also immaterial and immeasurable values that are felt on our everyday life, is around the corner.

Meanwhile, our resources are not just the ones readily given within the ecosphere, but also the ones created by us. One way to create new resources is to advance the development of new technology, so that we can be more effective and diversified in our consumption. The other way to create resources is a creative collage of the existing ones, a collage where the product is more than the sum of its components. Gardening and architecture are examples of this kind of montage.

Producing architecture stands for critical spatial activity that aims to shelter us from the unwanted qualities of the exterior environment. Then again, the production of homes and buildings is at times capable of quite the opposite; it litters the environment, alienates people, suppresses the senses and may lead in worst scenario to an unhealthy environment, physically and mentally.

The logical result then is that all building of houses is not architecture.

Yet architecture survives as one of the oldest habits of human activity. This is visible even in our language as for instance in the verb to in-habit. Language reveals factually a certain number of primeval connections that would otherwise be forgotten. When inhabiting, or living in architecture, one learns habits in an automa-

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ted corporeal manner. The way we build our houses is hence a slowly developed expression like language. In other words there is a language of houses, a communication that takes place in an immediate manner and with all senses. If this language changes either too fast, or communicates false or unnecessary messages, it becomes unintelligible, a lost language.

How then to come back to a state of pure observation and reaction? How to convert our constructions to a resource, a commonly created, actively communicating inhabited resource?

First of all, we need to create site-specific structures that are well adjusted to the terrain and the climate.

This implies that we need to treat surrounding landscape as physical and contextual material that cooperates with the architectural idea. It suggests as well that we have to anchor the exterior into the nature while allowing natural elements to leak into the interior.

Secondly, we need to design spaces that activate the use of all senses, keeping the architectural focus on what is essential and meaningful. We need to focus on the quality of space, materiality and natural light while minimizing floor area and use of materials. This will result to conserving multiple energy resources throughout the entire life cycle (from raw material production, transport and construction to the heating, servicing and recycling of the house). In other words, we need to start making structures that have a technically sound life-cycle from production to use and to disposal/ recycling: prefabrication, careful design of details, flexible robust solutions that can be transported, put up, adjusted and used easily.

Thirdly, architecture defines cultural identity, but not just one at the time. It creates fruitful collages that become the meeting and fusion points of local and global, old and new. Architecture can and should be communicating simultaneously private, regional, cultural, national and global sets of preferences in a layered message.

In other words, inclusion and managing of complexity through narrative and poetry creates more vibrant living surroundings than exclusion and reduction.

While all this happens, let all the participants of the project be well informed of the philosophy and goals

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behind the activity so they can spread the message. Organize participatory hands-on design & build workshops with clients, users and students to ensure ownership, social engagement and local empowerment. Create spaces that allow transformative education and thinking to take place.

All this activity serves the IMG: 1_3.jpg (www.ri-eg.com) making of buildings where people like to live and work, and thus maintaining them as long as possible. In a larger context, we have to start experimenting more, testing architecture with installations, prototypes and design & build workshops. For instance, we have not yet surely discovered all the spatial, structural and poetic possibilities of the most common building materials and their combinations. It is important to start acting, take a direction rather than be paralyzed in front of the flow of information and the multiplicity of choice. We have to break out of a self-referential, pathological situation where our profession has drifted. It is time for participatory research and grass-root academics. We should come together and build, honest and tribal, small scale IMG: 90_Dag_Jensquick and clever projects with distilled sen-06-20110922-Sogequalities. Our common act should look ne-0214.jpg (www.ri-eg. more like a kindergarten than a univercom) sity in order to learn faster and learn for life. Because, importantly, our profession has to have something to offer to the society, a special skill no one else has. We should build our careers on a solid fundament of hands-on practice, knowledge and feeling of materials and their will, and become the master builders again. If house is a combination of dreams and materials, it is up to the architect to manage both.

To resume, we perceive the reality around us through senses, as a total atmosphere where one cannot draw clear lines between different phenomena.

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Our everyday forage through work and leisure is not a rational and subjective state, but one that requests an emotional participation. We are in a state of continuous observation, shifting from “focused” to “blurred” and back again; facing slow corporeal parallax processes through time and space; experiencing measurements and approximations of materiality, space, light and taste with our eyes and body. We should not try to create artificial environments by following a reverse logic, where shortterm interests and self-created hurry compromise the results. On the contrary, once we surround ourselves with architecture filled with hope, we will achieve not only to structure the emptiness around us, but also to actively promote the change towards a balance between man and nature. In more precise words, we will stay fit enough to survive.

3. Home and Landscape

During the geologically quite short existence of man there has been a constant struggle for finding one’s place in the grand design. Alongside this cultural evolution process man has moved in the physical landscape from the wild nature of constant danger and alertness into a man-made landscape of health, safety and entertainment. Meanwhile, in the mental landscape he has been transferred from the center of the universe, under gods’ own eyes, to the outskirts of cold, endless and indifferent space. Here is the paradox of the contemporary human situation of being healthiest, richest and safest ever, yet feeling less at ease, less settled, less permanent in this world.

Meanwhile, having seemingly conquered and tamed all nature around us, we have created a distance to it. Governing and giving Latin names to other forms of life on the planet has not made us any closer to them, nor has it helped us to understand them more. Although there are no more white areas in the visible map, we still do not know much about the reality around us. The everyday landscape is still full of mystery and wonder, if we only would allow ourselves to stop and acknowledge this.

We could define six steps in the development of creating control over the nature landscape as a set of historic and cultural strategies of occupying a territory:

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IMG: Pasi_Aalto_-_Kumta_ Prototype-1729.jpg (www. ri-eg.com) 1. Choosing a physical

position in the landscape, 2. Making a shelter in the landscape, 3. Harvesting the landscape, 4. Constructing a home in the landscape, 5. Taming the whole landscape into an extended crafted homestead, village or urban man-made landscape, and finally, and arguably, 6. Losing control of the man-made dense landscape turning it into a mechanized landscape of production, traffic and information.

Position:

Every living creature- from bacteria in a small pond of liquid to a herd of antelopes on a savannah - tries to constantly position itself in the best place in a given situation. The highest criteria for successful positioning in a landscape are protection and overview: To be protected against unfavorable conditions, weather and physical

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dangers, and meanwhile to be able to see movement of food and possible enemy from a safe distance.

On one hand, temporary resting, eating and meetings take place in suitable positions. On the other hand, also movement itself in the landscape, as during hunting and gathering, is constant strategic positioning; choosing terrain, reading wind, sounds and signs and movement other members of the hunting party. During the evolution of our species, this spatial reading skill of the landscape has always marked the difference between success and failure.

Shelter:

Shelter is a structure to allow a temporary protection to rest or overnight. The hunter IMG: El-Miraand gatherer have the experience and the know- dor-La-Danta-631. jpg__800x600_q85_ ledge to find the proper position to stay and rest: maybe a dry hilltop for a camp, inside the crop (1).jpg (www. forest yet offering good overview, with drinking smithsonianmag. water nearby. In a favorable microclimate, flora com) and fauna provide physical evidence about the particular qualities of the site. In other words, natural components form an atmosphere recognizable as a welcoming and benevolent environment.

Constant reading and understanding of the landscape’s forms and details is intuitive. We measure distances and movements, we evaluate material qualities, tastes and sounds. This encompassing biological perception of visual landscape is the way we experience and value our living spaces as well.

Many hunters and fishermen establish IMG: 277_M1.jpg shelters on their favorite terrains. Sometimes the stays became prolonged, families followed (www.ri-eg.com) along, and the settlement became permanent.

Harvesting:

The hunter and gatherer use the landscape in a very sensitive way, mapping suitable positions in a psychological level through his sense apparatus. Especially in hunting situation, the hunter not only needs to constantly analyze his own movement and position, but he also needs to understand the position of the game in

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the terrain, and try to see the same landscape through its senses.

By planting and taking care of plants that provide food, textile, medicine and building materials, man has played a crucial part in transforming nature. Even some botanically rich parts of the Amazon rain forest, where soil in most areas has poor quality as main part of the nutrition is stored in the living biomass, have proved to be ancient gardens of the extinct, gradually overgrown civilizations that used to live there. By creating an artificial edge of two ecosystems in a previously homogeneous nature, say by creating an opening for a field in the n\middle of forest, human activity contributes in enriching the biodiversity on that border area. Articulating landscape with good design is profitable for both man and nature.

Home:

Home is a more permanent base for movement to different directions, a reference point for undertaking activities in landscape. It is also the private arena for marital and family life and becomes thus the major showcase of individual and cultural identity. Forming a permanent settlement of this character is a more complex phenomenon: although strongly related to cultural cluster or territory, it is always one single person who decides to call one place at a time by that name.

Being an individual choice, home is the result of a person’s claim for a place.

Based on the definitions of positioning, sheltering and harvesting, achieving home security should also mean including inside the home's walls the part of nature necessary for surviving; food plants and tamed animals.

Yet if we take a few steps back and think of a human being as one more form of life on the planet, we have to start by appreciating the fact that more or less half of our body weight is strictly ‘our self’, while the other half is bacteria that is out of our control. Moreover, a good deal of our brain is measuring and computing something science is not yet aware of. If we are not able to claim our own bodies, are we at home even in ourselves?

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Or vice versa, as walking collages of living nature, are we not as much at home wherever we go?

Urban settlement:

The invention of agriculture and husbandry required cooperation and allowed people to settle permanently in the vicinity of their fields and cattle. The traditional villages willing to develop into towns are clearly defined and dense conglomerates that were easy to defend and govern. At the same time, they became living laboratories where to find out the most effective way to use both local raw materials and local handcraft to give the best respond to local climate and terrain challenges. This kind of local building languages or even IMG: infradialects-still only partially recorded- could provide us structure.jpg with invaluable information when trying to find a way to (www.hiecological solutions in any given climate on earth. rexpectation.

In the same manner, the urban space, the divisicom/) on of public and private and the arranging of thoroughfare were solved in a distinctive way mirroring the local cultural values. Human scale, building materials with visible aging and history of crafting, market gardens and animals are all still manifesting the lineage from wild to tamed nature. These crafted urban entities were and are still positioned on the landscape in a clever way.

The mechanized landscape:

Man has lost the contact with nature twice; first by changing it to a modified, extended urban home- a city- and secondly after creating a total landscape of mass mechanization. If the first loss was equilibrated by gaining a variety of public spaces for social life, the second loss is compensated only on an individual-materialistic level: achieving faster movement, production and information contributes to saving time allowing either to have more free-time, or as it seems to be the case, being even faster to move, communicate and produce.

After the dwindling of traditional man-made urban landscape, and the growth of the landscape of production, transit and information, called the mechanized landscape here, the latter too still reminds of the wild natural landscape in the fact that it also asks for the making of position, shelter or home, but in a different way. Position, privacy at home and urban space are now additionally defined by the rules of consumption, pro-

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duction and traffic. As active physical positioning is no more necessary, it has been replaced by stagnant social posing.

Yet there is no need to look back for any lost golden times. On the contrary, the average living conditions and quality of life is on the constant move upwards in most areas of the world. What remains to be done, is to make this progress more focused in quality and more sensitive to the biosphere, the locality and the people and that inhabit it.

Reclaiming the landscapes of reality with crafting and gardening:

Having survived many hostile landscapes, human being is a resistant creature. Reclaiming this resisting identity in order to re-appropriate our position, our home and our urban space, we have to re-invent respective strategies. We need to become again, in a manner of speaking, the hunters and gatherers we are biologically made for. The only way to become the masters of practical knowledge in our current landscape is to start using it actively: to move in it on ground level, to articulate it with craftsmanship, to bring in garden plants and animals and to establish a band of like-minded tribesmen, a collective.

Parallel to this activism, on the societal level we should minimize our mass production, mass information and mass traffic to bare necessity. In time, this would result on an individual level to gaining more knowledge and control over one’s own environment, production and consumption of local goods and to living with cleverer, smaller, and more adjustable infrastructure and architecture.

Today, perhaps more than ever, we need to reclaim our landscapes and homes, both physical and mental, so that we may meaningfully re-inhabit and re-develop them. Even if we possess all the means and tools to plan and test this, the real ideological challenge is that this has to be done with fewer resources, less production and less infrastructure. While this may sound like a bad business idea, it is indeed the key issue to the economic survival of our civilization.

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CONTRIBUTE TO POLEMIK 8: POLEMIKPOLEMIK@GMAIL.COM CONTRIBUTE TO POLEMIK 8: POLEMIKPOLEMIK@GMAIL.COM CONTRIBUTE TO POLEMIK 8: POLEMIKPOLEMIK@GMAIL.COM

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IMG: Trælinje (11 of 11). jpg (Johan Eg Nørgaard)

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dem som ikke lønnede. Det lyder som et rimelig hårdt kort at spille.

Publikum “Jeg tror ikke det er sket, men der har været venlig polemik også i England omkring internship, som jeg har læst det.

Men jeg tror ikke det er på plads, og de har jo heller ikke nogen overenskomst (RIBA), med nogen som helst, for det er et andet land og andre vilkår. Alle dem der er medlem af RIBA, arbejdsgivere, kan jo så sige: “nu er vi enige om, i den her forening, at vi ikke ansætter nogen på den her måde - vi giver en ordentlig løn”.

Det er jo så Danske Ark vi har her i danmark, hvis det er tegnestuerne vi snakker om. Man kan jo også bare vælge at komme i gang med det offentlige, det er i jo mere end velkomne til, der er masser af arbejde i det offentlige, vil jeg bare lige hilse og sige, og der er fuld løn under barsel.

Men det der med, at få de danske tegnestuer til at sige det her, “at nu vil vi have ordentlige vilkår”, det kan i jo fandeme bare forhandle med os her til foråret ikke. Sådan er det, der er forskel på landene, ikke?”

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kedet, eller branchen, i gratis arbejdskraft. Hvor er momentum - i siger vi er den mest samlede akademikerstand, men der sker ikke noget, altså er det ikke et kæmpe forhandlingsmandat som...” (AFBRUDT)

Trine Lybech: “…altså jeg synes først og fremmest, at vi både skal gå sammen FAOD, arkitektforeningen og især også Danske Ark, som desværre ikke er her idag. Det er jo fordi, at vi bliver nødt til at stå sammen, som en treenighed føler jeg. For hvis vi ikke allesammen står sammen kan vi ikke ændre på noget. Altså vi kan godt komme som arkitektforeningen og sige: “det her vil vi fandeme slå ned på”, men hvis vi ikke har Danske Ark med, hvor er vi så henne?

Så derfor mener jeg bare at det er rigtig vigtigt at vi arbejder sammen om det. Det er fedt at vi sidder så mange her i dag - og jeg synes det er rigtig ærgerligt at Danske Ark ikke er her - vi skal stå sammen om det for at ændre det her.”

Publikum “..det forstår jeg godt, men man må også forhandle med det mandat man har. Altså så vidt jeg ved, så har RIBA blacklistet alle

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det er det i princippet. Men jeg tror stadig jeg ser en bachelor som en studerende der er på vej til at blive arkitekt. Hos os opererer vi ikke med begrebet bachelor, der kan man være studerende på forskellige årgange. Jeg tror, at det med at fokusere meget på bachelorerne, det udløser et eller andet, det tror jeg godt kan blive svært håndterbart ude på tegnestuerne, for det er meget individuelt hvad den enkelte studerende har fået ud af at gennemføre en bachelor.”

Publikum “Jeg har ladet mig fortælle at RIBA, i England har kæmpet for at fjerne alt internships og gratis arbejdskraft. Jeg synes det lyder lidt mere powerfuldt end når nogen går ind og siger: det er teknisk vanskeligt, nogen andre går ind og siger: vi har nogle penge til et samarbejde altså hvor er den der kampgejst, der siger, at der er et åbenlyst problem?

Og hvis man lige tager et skridt tilbage, så er der også mange nylige afgængere, der bliver tilbudt virksomhedspraktikker, hvor folk med en bachelor og erfaring og en kandidatgrad igen bliver tilbudt at arbejde gratis. Som jeg ser det så svømmer mar-

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lysningsproblem. Jeg tror at nogen – det kunne være InSpe eller nogen på skolen – skulle fokuserer på det mellemrum der er mellem bachelor og kandidat.”

Helge Borup: “Og så kunne jeg måske godt lige tænke mig at knytte en kommentar til bachelortakst, som jo opstod dengang, som vi snakkede om med Bolognaprocessen*.

Jeg synes, at i arkitektbranchen kan det være en lidt svær størrelse. Jeg tænker, hvis man har med fact-tunge-fag at gøre og man har læst jura eller økonomi, så har man været igennem noget, og er fuldt uddannet i en del på sin bachelor, mens jeg ser arkitektuddannelsen i høj grad som sådan en dannelsesrejse, man er på vej igennem, og ikke nødvendigvis en bachelor som en færdig uddannelse, og jeg ved godt, at *Bolognaprocessen er en reformproces for videregående uddannelser startet i Europa i 1999 og målsat til at træde i kraft i 2010. Processen indførte let læselige og let sammenlignelige karakterer på tværs af landegrænser, brug af bachelor– og mastersystemet (også kendt som ”3+2 modellen”), samt det fælles pointsystem ECTS. Formålet med reformen var at styrke mobiliteten blandt studerende og undervisere og at højne den generelle kvalitet af uddannelsessystemerne. 48 lande deltager i Bolognaprocessen.

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Kristoffer Codam: ”Jeg tænker netop, at det er en skævvridning, at bachelorer arbejder til så lav en løn. Så ser man nemlig konkurrenceforvridningen mellem dem, der godt kan finde ud af at betale løn til deres ansatte, og dem der ikke kan. Hvis man giver bachelorerne en ordentlig løn, så er der ikke den store difference for virksomhederne mellem at ansætte en færdiguddannet og en bachelor.”

Frederik E. Haukrogh: ”Jeg kan godt forstå at nogle studerende bliver snydt til at tro, at en månedsløn på 6-7-8000 kr. er okay, for man starter i praktik. Man får sin SU. Ens leveomkostninger er ikke høje. Man studerer og man er på en virksomhed. Så er det halve år gået – det gik lidt hurtigt – og vil gerne have et halvt eller helt år mere. Så er det at arkitektfirmaer kan bruge argumentet: du laver det samme, du får det samme – du kan bare fortsætte. Men det er ikke fint. Det er konkurrenceforvridende, det dumper lønnen for dem som allerede er ansat, og virksomheden har heller ikke længere noget uddannelsesansvar overfor dig.

De kan sætte dig til hvad som helst. (…)

Jeg tror i høj grad at problemet er et op-

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vi skulle lave en overenskomst for en kort videregående uddannelse – som det må siges at være – så skulle vi lave en overenskomst, der ville gøre at vi i en virksomhedspraktik faktisk skulle op og have en konstruktørløn, og der er et eller andet der, en gordisk knude, vi ikke rigtig har formået at kunne løse endnu. (…) Men det gør altså ikke, at vi holder igen på overenskomstkravet om, at vi vil have overenskomstdækket de studerende.”

Trine Lybech: ”Nu snakker vi rigtig meget om løn og det er super vigtigt. Men jeg synes også at det er super vigtigt – nu kommer jeg jo fra standsforeningen – at vi skal kigge på - som stand - at vi ikke vil ud i, at der er tegnestuer hvor måske 10 ud af 20 ansatte er bachelorer eller praktikanter og får de der 5000 kr. i løn. Først og fremmest kan det gøre noget ved den arkitektoniske kvalitet for hele vores branche.

For det andet gør det jo at vi skævvrider vores branche. (…) Det handler ikke kun om hvad det er for en løn man får som studerende, men det handler også om hvad det er for et fag man gerne vil ind i og hvordan vi ser vores fag i fremtiden.”

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Indledning Den 23. november afholdte InSpe og Polemik arrangementet »Polemik live«. En paneldebat med deltagerne: Trine Lybech (AAØ), Helge Borup (Arkitema), Peter Toftsø (FAOD), Frederik E. Haukrogh (De Arkitektstuderendes Råd), Kristoffer Codam (Polemik), Sara Emilie Nilsson (ordstyrer).

I denne udgave af Polemik trykkes et udpluk af debatten.

I den forbindelse vil vi gerne sige tak til: InSpe for et godt samarbejde; paneldeltagerne for en uundværlig indsigt; og de mange engagerede deltagere for fremmødet. Vi er enormt stolte af udfaldet, og vi håber på at kunne gentage formatet ved anden lejlighed.

Fakta Overenskomstforhandling ved FAOD er færdig 1. marts 2017.

Bolognaprocessen er en reformproces for videregående uddannelser startet i Europa i 1999 og målsat til at træde i kraft i 2010. Processen indførte let læselige og let sammenlignelige karakterer på tværs af landegrænser, brug af bachelor– og kandidatsystemet (også kendt som ”3+2 modellen”), samt det fælles pointsystem ECTS. Formålet med reformen var at styrke mobiliteten blandt elever og lærere, at højne den generelle kvalitet af uddannelsessystemerne og tiltrække elever og lærere fra hele verden. 48 lande deltager i Bolognaprocessen.Førhen var uddannelsen til arkitekt ét sammenhængende forløb på 5-7 år.

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studerende. (…) Det er os der skal holde den (overenskomsten red.) i luften hvis der skal være nogen, da vi er de eneste der har en med Danske Ark via deres nuværende arbejdsgiverorganisation: Dansk Industri. Og det kan vi ikke sådan som tingene står lige nu og sådan som holdning hos Danske Ark og Dansk Industri er. Jeg tror som sådan, at Danske Ark ville være med på ideen, fordi det ville være med til at udligne nogle konkurrenceforskelle, hvor der er nogen der bruger gratis arbejdskraft, og nogen der aflønner fint under gode forhold. Men problemet er Dansk Industri. Dansk Industri er medlem af Dansk Arbejdsgiverforening, og i Dansk Arbejdsgiverforening der har man ikke overenskomster med studerende. Det findes ikke. Det vil man ikke have. Og man vil ikke slet ikke have overenskomster med akademikere. Vi er den første akademiske institution der har nået en overenskomst med Dansk Industri – og det er vi faktisk ret stolte af – problemet er, at vores studerende ikke kan komme med, og vores bachelorer har vi en anden udfordring med. Det er jo en treårig uddannelse, der er på niveau med konstruktøren. Det vil sige, at hvis

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POLEMIK 7 00-45

Peter Toftsø: ”Der er ikke nogen gældende regler, der gør, at man skal have løn for at arbejde som arkitektstuderende på en tegnestue. (…) Løn er alene et anliggende i en overenskomst. Der er ikke som sådan lovgivning om en minimumsløn. Det er arbejdsmarkedets parter, der fastsætter lønforholdene, det gør regeringen ikke. Det er vi egentlig meget glade for, fordi hvis regeringen gik ind og pålagde os et eller andet, ville lønnen blive banket helt ned. Det er et udtryk for en magtkamp mellem arbejdsgiver og arbejdstager at man finder et gældende lønniveau.

Her er vi så bare lidt fucked, fordi der er ikke nogen der har overenskomst med

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